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Dáil Éireann debate -
Friday, 21 Nov 1952

Vol. 134 No. 15

Private Deputies' Business. - Road Maintenance—Motion.

Mr. O'Higgins

On behalf of Deputy Oliver Flanagan, I move:—

That Dáil Éireann is of opinion that all main and trunk roads should be maintained from State funds, as local authorities find it impossible to maintain them with present State aid; and that, as turf-producing counties have increased road traffic, and should have increased road grants for county roads, the Government should formulate a scheme for the provision of special road grants to all county councils who are engaged in turf production.

This motion deals with two particular problems—first of all, problems which arise in all counties relating to the maintenance of main and trunk roads and, secondly, the particular problem that arises in turf-producing counties in relation to road maintenance. The motion asks that more assistance be given by the Government from Central Funds for these purposes. I would like, first of all, as a Deputy for a large turf-producing constituency, to deal with the particular problem which faces turf-producing counties. In part of my constituency, in County Offaly, a very considerable contribution has been made over the years to turf production. County Offaly engaged, particularly during the years of the emergency, largely in the production of hand-won turf, and to aid in that a considerable amount of local authority effort was diverted from road maintenance towards turf production. In addition, the main and trunk roads in the county had to bear considerable lorry traffic, not only on account of turf production within the county but on account of the turf transport from the West of Ireland towards the City of Dublin.

By reason of all this, the problem of road maintenance there became extremely acute at the end of the emergency. Roads began to deteriorate, through this heavy lorry traffic within the county and crossing the county from Roscommon, Galway and other counties west of the Shannon. In the later years of the emergency, during 1947 and 1948, while county council turf production was still in operation, the Government, conscious of its responsibility in relation to the maintenance of main and trunk roads throughout the country, made substantial road grants to different county councils.

In Offaly, as I am sure also in the case of other turf-producing counties, these grants were not used. The large grants-in-aid in 1947 and 1948 for the maintenance of main and trunk roads could not be utilised by Offaly County Council because all their employees were engaged in turf production. Accordingly, the grants directed by the Minister for Local Government for County Offaly could not be spent. That was caused by the real and substantial effort being made in Offaly to add to the pool of turf in the country. I mention this matter to illustrate the particular problem in Offaly and how it has arisen.

The present position, with which the motion deals, is that in this turf-producing county—and to a certain extent also in County Laois—the local council finds it impossible to make up the leeway caused by the effort made during the emergency. The problem now facing them is so immense that it cannot be dealt with by any local finance that may be raised by a charge on rates. Accordingly, one part of this motion asks that, in regard to any turf-producing county, conscious of the heavy burdens which turf production brings to main and trunk roads, the Government should regard the maintenance of those roads as a national charge. That case in relation to turf-producing counties is not a case that can be answered.

With regard to the second branch of the motion, which deals with main and trunk roads generally, I suppose it is arguable whether or not local rates should be called on to contribute to road maintenance. The fact is clear, however, and it will be accepted, that the country's main road arteries running from Dublin to the South, to the North and to the West transcend in importance any matter of local consideration. We realise now that, whatever the cause may be, we are passing from the days of the iron road, from the days when the railroad connected the capital with provincial capitals and with other parts of the country. We will become more and more dependent on the main road artery as the means of inter-communication and as the big mode of carrying heavy freight and other heavy traffic. Accordingly, the situation is quite different to the situation that obtained, say, at the passing of the original Grand Jury Act which provided for a poor rate and a rate for the maintenance of roads. In those days, 100 years or so ago, the local road was merely a county road which connected up different parts of the county. It was incidental that a county road running across Laois or Offaly happened to join up with a county road running across Carlow or Kildare. That was incidental.

I know of one road in Laois where the road builders failed to effect a proper junction and it took some time before the two county roads were joined together into a main or trunk road. Conditions have changed and the importance of main and trunk roads to-day is quite different to their importance 100 years or so ago.

We still operate in this country the same method of financing road maintenance. Agreed that the Central Government does to a certain extent recognise its responsibility by making grants-in-aid out of the Road Fund for the maintenance of main and trunk roads, but that is always a problematical matter each year because neither the amount, the extent nor the conditions of these grants are constant. There is very little assurance to a local authority that road grants will be continued over a period of years at a certain figure and subject to certain well-known conditions.

Accordingly, in relation to road maintenance each year, when the rate has to be struck, there is a period of waiting to know what the Department of Local Government will do and what grants will be made available. I think that the present situation is not satisfactory.

In recent weeks this Dáil has substantially increased the method of financing the Road Fund. It has done that, but I suppose it would have done it anyway. It was done and accompanied by an assurance from the present Minister that the Road Fund would never again be dissipated for purposes other than that for which it was formed.

I suggest to the Minister that he should accept the principle of making the four or five main arteries in the country a national charge and that he should finance the maintenance of these main road arteries out of the Central Fund. By doing that we will have uniform roads. We will have the same road policy applicable throughout the country and generally. In a country depending, as this country does, to a large extent upon a tourist trade we will be able to give better service to road users. For these reasons this motion has been put down and it is for those reasons that I urge its acceptance by Dáil Éireann.

I second the motion.

Mr. O'Higgins

Is it any offence to me to have a motion of mine seconded by Deputy Cogan?

I do not think it is necessary for Deputy O'Higgins, acting in the name of Deputy Flanagan, to be unnecessarily personally offensive. I have a perfect constitutional right, as an Independent Deputy, to second any motion in this House without any recommendation or any commendation from Deputy O'Higgins.

Provided it was not moved by Deputy Dillon.

Deputy Cogan is entitled to speak without interruption.

I must definitely reply and reply very emphatically to a disorderly interruption by Deputy Davin who has suggested again and again in this House that I have some personal animosity to one particular Deputy, Deputy Dillon. I have no animosity to any Deputy in this House. Every Deputy is alike to me. I want to make that perfectly clear.

Let us pass to the motion now.

My character has been assailed again and again by allegations in the newspapers that I have personal hostility or malice to some particular Deputy. I want to deny and repudiate that.

The Deputy has done so now. He should pass on to the motion.

The Deputy is very fond of him.

In fact, I am the Deputy who made Deputy Dillon a Minister. He knows that. I am one of the small group of Independents who put him on his pedestal.

Deputy Dunne should allow Deputy Cogan to proceed without interruption.

A Deputy

He is a king maker.

A laugh is not an interruption.

All interruptions are disorderly.

A laugh is not an interruption.

Is the Deputy questioning my ruling?

I accept your ruling, Sir.

Deputy Dunne spoke and interrupted by means of the spoken word.

While seconding this motion, I think it is one that the House should consider with certain reservations. The mere fact of the State taking over the main and trunk roads as a national charge does not shift in any way any portion of the burden of road maintenance from the local authorities to the State. It is possible, under present circumstances, for the State to make a smaller contribution towards the maintenance of the entire road system by taking over the main roads and leaving the reconstruction of all the country roads to the local authorities than if they were to proceed along the lines the Minister has envisaged.

I think it is a mistake that this motion should come at a time when we, as a House, are trying to make additional contributions to the local authorities for the reconstruction and the improvement of our county roads generally and of our road system. I think it is an opportune time to discuss in an earnest and objective way the whole policy of road construction and improvement.

It is a time when we should consider objectively whether road reconstruction and improvement should be left entirely to the local authority or whether it should be taken over by some central authority as a permanent policy. These are matters which will require serious consideration. There are, I suppose, three avenues open, one to nationalise our entire road system and something might be said for that. The second is to leave it entirely in the hands of the local authority and the third is to group a number of counties together, as has been suggested in this House, for the purpose of higher efficiency in road construction.

I do not feel too enthusiastic about the proposal embodied in this motion to separate road construction into two categories.

Mr. O'Higgins

The Deputy seconded this motion.

As I say, I do not feel too enthusiastic about that. Whatever authority is dealing with one particular type of road should, I think, deal with all. I do not think there is much in what Deputy O'Higgins says about the central authority undertaking the construction of even the really arterial roads.

Debate adjourned.
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