Turf Development Bill, 1953—Second Stage (Resumed).

Question again proposed: "That the Bill be now read a Second Time."

Mr. Calleary

It affords me special pleasure to say a few words in support of this Bill. I represent an area that has benefited considerably from the development of our peat resources, an area that looks forward with confidence to the future. This barren land is now a hive of activity, the hum of machinery and the talk of the working gangs replace the silence of the past and have converted an area that was desolate and waste into an area that will be of some use to the nation. Our people from that district heretofore went to England, and now I am looking forward to some change so that those people will get work at home in their own areas and play their part in this revolutionary change which will benefit the Irish nation.

In addition to the work provided in that area I see that we can now hope to make some use of the land; when it is reclaimed it will be a source of profit to the nation. I am pleased to hear that the production of milled peat has now passed beyond the experimental stages and that its future is assured. On behalf of the people of North Mayo, I congratulate the Minister on the work he has done and on the foresight and courage he has displayed in the development of our bogs and peat resources. In addition, the land from which the peat is taken will, I am sure, be capable of reclamation and of productive use for the nation. The pioneers of this work are definitely entitled to anything they are getting or any benefit which they may derive under this Bill. I know that there will be no difficulty in getting plenty of workers, now that they are assured of houses. The provision of suitable housing accommodation will mean that we shall get contented workers in the various turf areas. Once we provide the houses we shall have no trouble in getting workers.

I regret to hear that measures have had to be taken to compel certain people to use native fuel. It is hard to understand, why, in present circumstances, imported fuel should be used by anybody, especially in an area such as North Mayo where an abundance of native fuel is available. It is not unreasonable to expect that people should co-operate in the policy of using native fuel wherever possible. I was therefore pleased to hear the Minister say that he would insist upon native fuel being used.

During the debate last week, I heard Deputy Blowick, one of the Deputies for South Mayo, complain that in North Mayo a considerable quantity of turf had not been taken over by Bord na Móna and that it had been left on the producer's hands. I am pleased to be able to tell the House that, so far as North Mayo is concerned, all the hand-won turf from last year's crop has now been taken over and that no surplus turf in the area has been left on the producer's hands. That is certainly a matter for which we should be grateful.The area I represent is one in which a very considerable quantity of turf is produced annually. Our fuel resources are virtually the only natural resources on which a large number of our people have to rely and I am pleased to know that all the hand-won turf available for sale in North Mayo has now been purchased.

I should like to ask the Minister if he would consider the question of paying a subsidy of so much per ton for the carriage of turf from outlying districts in my constituency, especially from areas such as the parish of Aughoose and Doohoma. These districts are approximately 40 miles from a railway station and if a subsidy were made available there would be plenty of hand-won turf produced there. In these areas, the only work available is that of producing hand-won turf, that is turf cut by the ordinary sleán. I feel that the people in these areas are as well entitled to get a subsidy as people who are sending beet to Tuam or elsewhere. There is no hope of growing beet in this area. It is a poor, desolate area, in which practically no other work is available and if work is not provided for the people on the bogs, there is no prospect open to them except to trek across to a foreign country. I would make a special appeal to the Minister, now that the market for hand-won turf is being developed, that he might consider the possibility of giving a special subsidy for the carriage of turf from North Mayo, especially from those areas which are 40 or 50 miles distant from a railway station. As I say, I think we are as much entitled to such a subsidy as the people who are sending beet along to Tuam or elsewhere.

I have heard some lamentations to the effect that our people will not work in the bogs. I can assure the Minister that, so far as North Mayo is concerned, the migratory labourers there will be only too happy to work in the bogs, now that they are assured of a market for the turf which they produce. If they are assured of work for two, three or four months in the year, they will be delighted to remain at home and will have no desire to cross the water in search of work. The presentdevelopment of turbary in the area means that the people are guaranteed definite work for the season and there will be no trouble in getting plenty of labour in this area in the future. People there are hoping that they will be employed full-time and thus avoid the necessity of having to trek across to foreign lands. In conclusion, I wish again to thank the Minister for his foresight and courage in attempting to develop our fuel resources to the full and I can assure him that the people of the area I represent will avail to the utmost of the work which is now provided for them. It is the only work they have and I again thank the Minister for the steps he has taken to ensure that such resources will be utilised to their fullest extent.

Mr. Brennan

I have no desire to stand in the way of the Minister but, as a Deputy from an area to which turf produce is of so much importance, I should not like to let the opportunity pass without saying a few words by way of complimenting all concerned on this Bill. The Bill is of primary importance for a number of workers in Bord na Móna and the people who comprise that important organisation, which has proven to be such a great success. I think these people are deserving of any praise we in this House can give them for the great success they have made of an undertaking which had not the full support of everybody in this House at one time. One has only to visit the experimental station in Newbridge nowadays to realise the strides forward which Bord na Móna has made.

To mention one item in particular, the Móna jet burner which they have brought into being has revolutionised the entire fuel production in this country and has created new hope in the minds of people who hitherto had not much to say in favour of the efforts that were being made to develop our native fuel. The introduction of the Móna jet burner has meant the inception of a new era for turf producing areas and I believe it will succeed in outsting many types of imported fuel hitherto used for heating purposes in this country. It comparesfavourably with any other system and I think that when its merits are more generally known it will be widely availed of by the people generally, particularly in parts of the country where imported fuel has been used up to the present.

I have a special reason to congratulate the Minister for anything he is doing for the people who constitute the organisation of Bord na Móna. We are particularly grateful because one of the turf fired generating stations is to be located in West Donegal. We think it is not before its time and we are sorry that it was not done before so that many of our people who were obliged to emigrate from these congested areas could have remained at home and found work amongst their own people. The development of our peat resources has brought new hope to these people who live in desolate areas and who own practically nothing but tracts of bog of no special value. They see new hope in the future and I believe we are on the eve of a great future for the people in these congested areas. There is no doubt that our native fuel development has reached the stage wherein we can look forward with confidence to a bright future for our people and I believe that our efforts will be crowned with success.

I am surprised that more Opposition Deputies were not interested in this matter. As one who represents a turf producing area I would like on behalf of the people there to congratulate the Minister. Every step he has taken to develop our peat resources is fully appreciated by the people. We congratulate the Minister on the efforts he has made and on the success he has achieved to-date.

Mr. Blaney

I want to congratulate the Minister in furthering the aims and activities of Bord na Móna through the medium of this measure. It is a very important measure from the point of view of a county such as mine where turf production is of paramount importance. It was interesting to listen to the few speakers on the Opposition Benches who contributed to this discussion.It was interesting to notice their reaction to Bord na Móna and all it stands for. It was interesting to compare that reaction to-day with the reaction in bygone years when this project was first mooted.

We were told to-day that the Minister should not take any credit for the project under way in Bangor Erris. We were told that the success of that development is due entirely to the production of milled peat. While I agree with that to a certain extent I must say that, were it not for the Minister and others with vision, we should never have got to the stage of milling peat here. During the recent past we had two generating stations which were not designed to burn native fuel. In the past two years, since the return if Fianna Fáil to office and since the return of the Minister for Industry and Commerce we have not just two stations but six stations under way for the burning of native fuel. It is only right that these matters should be kept before the public mind, particularly in relation to the congested counties where turf is of such value and is, as has been said, one of the very few assets available. We must recognise in the present Minister one who has believed in turf all through his career, one who has done everything possible to foster and encourage that industry. The fact that the industry has reached its present level of development is due in no small measure to the Minister's efforts and foresight. If we are to continue along that happy road to the full utilisation of our native turf resources any measure designed to foster and encourage Bord na Móna by way of financial subvention should have the backing of every Party in this House. If there are some who, despite their mistaken ideas in the past, cannot even to-day stand wholeheartedly behind this development at least they should not stand in its way. I congratulate the Minister on bringing forward this measure.

I have one comment to make, more by way of suggestion than by way of criticism. Bord na Móna has done excellent work but, being a partially Government financed board or authority, there is danger that it may beinclined in the future to treat the work entrusted to it in a manner which may not give the best economic return. It has been suggested to me by people outside, people whom I regard as being in a position to know, that a certain tightening up could be carried out within the organisation in order to ensure a better return in the future. We should not feel that because we have a very excellent organisation and because Bord na Móna has done a very good job there is no room for improvement.

Mr. Sweetman

I want to deal with a couple of points in particular rather than with the general position under this Bill. If I were to adopt the line adopted by Deputy Blaney the Minister would not get his Bill to-night, but I have no desire to hold him up.

First of all, I want the Minister to give us a little more information about milled peat. As I understand it, the scientific advance—if I may so describe it—now being made is an advance in the direction of treating peat by cutting it with something akin to a lawnmower, bringing it in milled form and burning it as such in the generating stations. It is not intended to put it through any part of the processes that are utilised on the existing briquette production at Lullymore. That briquette production has had an unhappy history in certain aspects. Dealing with milled peat that goes into the briquette-making machines is something that requires a pretty light touch, if I may so describe it. The very slightest degree of neglect in dealing with valves and flues or in the cleaning of valves and flues has, unfortunately, in the past, led to serious, and sometimes fatal, accidents. I want to know from the Minister whether generation will be done on the same type of machinery or will it be an entirely different type. I think the Minister referred to it in his opening speech as a liquidising method.

Mr. Lemass

Fluidising.

Mr. Sweetman

There may be a wealth of difference in the technical aspect of the terms but to the layman there is not a great deal of differencebetween fluid and liquid. It is I think important that if there is going to be a substantial difference, as I believe there is, it should be appreciated by the lay people concerned.

The other thing I want to mention is the question of housing. The board has started substantial housing colonies in the County Kildare. The effect of Section 3 of the Bill is to give grants to the board—as I understand it, to give exactly the same grants as would be given to a local authority building the same type of house. These houses are, however, tied houses. There is a certain amount of resentment amongst the personnel who are working for the board in the Blackwood and Allenwood areas because the only terms on which they can go into the houses are that they can remain in them only during the currency of their employment. Of course, the effect of that is that the local people do not like to go into them at all.

I think that we had a commission some years ago dealing with the whole question of tied cottages. As far as I can remember, it reported very strongly against them. That commission was very strong on the point that any system of tied houses was a retrograde step rather than an advance. Yet in this Bill—not necessarily in the Bill by itself, I agree, but by this Bill—we are further advocating the system of tied houses. I wonder whether it is the better way of dealing with the matter?

I might add, perhaps, that one of the things that we were somewhat disappointed with in Kildare was that Bord na Móna came to the Kildare County Council and asked it to take over all roads and services appertaining to its settlement village, if I may use that term. We felt that we could not possibly do that when the request was for a private tied concern. If the houses were to be let to the public in the ordinary way—naturally enough they would be let in the initial instance, possibly, to employees—then the local authority would have a function in the matter. But we did not feel that we were entitled as a local authority to step in and do something that was notfor the benefit of the public, but only for the benefit of a particular class, no matter how deserving that class may be.

I would ask the Minister seriously to reconsider whether it is wise to tie these houses, quite apart from their first allocation to employees. If the employment is worth while, and if the houses are occupied, then Bord na Móna will have no difficulty in getting employees. I can see the anxiety of Bord na Móna that it will have a population near an area from which it can draw the labour pool it requires. I do not think the right way of doing that is to insist that the people concerned should work for Bord na Móna by the threat of being dispossessed from the house. I think that a much better method of dealing with it would be to have the houses and the population there, to make the terms of work with the board so satisfactory and so enticing that the people would come willingly to work rather than feel that they were under compulsion to do so.

I was also rather disappointed that the Minister, when extending the capital power of Bord na Móna to such a degree, did not give us some indication as to the future—what I mean is, after the bogs have been cut out. Some people are inclined to say that that is a very long way off. I do not think that, in parts, it is going to be anything as far away as some people anticipate, though I do feel that, perhaps, by the utilisation of the milled process rather than by the machine-sod process, the life of a bog may extend over a long period, since the cutting will be over a wider area than is the case at present, with the big baggers working on a machine cutting. No matter what benefit we, in our generation, may derive in respect of the utilisation of our bogs, if we are going to leave them to the generation that comes after us as mere lakes or waste spaces, it will be a very temporary achievement indeed.

I have always felt that there was not enough attention given in the cutting of a bog to the forestry that should come after it—that there was not enough attention given to the cutting in such a way that planting would bereasonably feasible. That may have been due to planting on a short-term basis, first of all, for the purpose of building up the humus of the cutaway bog, then planting trees on a short-term basis to provide material for perhaps wall board, and, finally, planting your hardwoods and so develop on a long-term basis. It would be disastrous if this were to be treated merely on a short-term basis with no thought, no plan and no co-ordination as to what was to come after the cutting was finished. In parts of the country to-day one can see where in the past bogs were cut very low, that there is nothing now to be seen except a swamp in the winter. If we are going to substitute the Bog of Allen, in the middle of the country, with a lake, after our day, then I do not think we shall have done much except to deal with this on a purely temporary basis. I do not think, however, that is the desire of any of us. We are coming very quickly to the time, in certain areas, when the big baggers which have been working for some years, will have gone down as far as it is intended they should go. I, therefore, suggest that work should be started in those areas on what will lead to permanency.

Originally, our county council was asked at one time to consider the building of those houses. We put a query as to what was proposed after the bog was cut out, the life of which we could not tell—whether it would mean 20 years cutting by the bagging machines? I should like to have some indication from the Minister as to what the programme is on those cutaway portions, and whether it is not possible now to start work on that rejuvenation simultaneously with the machines working on the nearby strips. I think it is desirable that we should know, at this time when we are extending to such a degree the financial scope of Bord na Móna, what the position in that regard is going to be. I think this is the appropriate time for the Minister to give us some little indication of what the board have in mind. The Minister may not be able to do so now because, apparently, if he gets in he will not be able to finish to-night. Perhaps he would be able to get the information for us beforeto-morrow, when, I take it, he will be concluding on this stage of the Bill.

Dáil Éireann debate -
Tuesday, 9 Jun 1953