It is proposed to take business in the following order: Nos. 5, 7 (in No. 7 the Supplementary Estimate for Vote 57, Army Pensions) 4, 11, 8 and back to No. 7 for Vote 27 and Supplementary Vote 27. It is proposed that public business be not interrupted for the taking of Private Deputies' business. In view of the number of amendments foreshadowed to the Courts of Justice Bill, it is not proposed to proceed with the Committee Stage this session. It is proposed that the Dáil should adjourn to-day until 20th October. To ensure that the business ordered will be completed to-day, I propose to move to sit later than 2 p.m. It is proposed that if Vote 27 is not reached by 4 p.m. it should be taken at 4 p.m. I move that the Dáil sit later than 2 p.m. to-day and that the motion for the adjournment be taken not later than 12 o'clock midnight.
Order of Business.
The House will remember that during the week it was ordered that certain business would be taken and Deputies have made their arrangements on the understanding that the business which was intimated to us already would be fully discharged before the House rose. They have made their arrangements on the understanding that the Dáil would meet next week. The Tánaiste has now intimated that the Courts of Justice Bill will not be completed this session. I should like to ask whether he has taken into consideration in connection with that the undertakings given by the Government very many months ago with regard to the remuneration of district justices which is involved in this Bill and whether thereis any conceivable reason why Deputies should be misled by the Government into understanding that the House would continue to sit next week and that it would do the business in the way indicated.
There was a suggestion on the conclusion of the debate on the Second Reading of the Courts of Justice Bill that it might be possible to dispose of the remaining stages of it next week. We understand, however, that some 50 amendments are being tabled and, in these circumstances, we think it would be wrong to attempt to rush consideration of that Bill in that atmosphere. In the circumstances, there seems to be no practical alternative, if proper consideration is to be given to the amendments, than the one proposed. It would be foolish to hope that all the remaining stages of the Bill would be concluded next week.
I must say I am astounded at the proposals which the Tánaiste has made this morning. It is clear from what the Tánaiste said that we are to get the option of passing these Bills to-day.
What Bills?
The Workmen's Compensation Bill and the Comptroller and Auditor-General's Bill. Is it suggested that we should take the Committee Stage, the Report Stage and the Final Stage of the Workmen's Compensation Bill to-day?
Only if the Dáil is willing to facilitate its passage.
The proposition means that this House is given this offer: to pass the Committee Stage, the Report Stage and the Final Stage of the Workmen's Compensation Bill to-day or put it off until the Dáil reassembles in October.
If the Dáil is desirous to have a protracted discussion on the Committee Stage of the Workmen's Compensation Bill, we think it would be better to withhold that discussion until next session.
It is cynicism of the worst kind that injured workmen should have to wait for that Bill until then. The House spent three days on a vote of confidence which, in fact, was never passed by the House, three days on a second Vote on Account, and on the last day on which Parliament sits this Bill, which is of vital importance to the workers, is to be thrown into an October session. This Dáil, which was elected by the people to do the people's business, is to go on holidays for three months and injured workmen are to be left without the benefits of the legislation contemplated.
May I interrupt the Deputy? The suggestion was made through the Whips to the Deputy's Party that the Workmen's Compensation Bill should be passed as it stands as an interim measure and that a Committee of the Dáil should be asked to consider the preparation of a comprehensive Bill dealing with workmen's compensation. I understand that that suggestion was not accepted by the Deputy's Party. So far as the Government are concerned, if the Deputy's Party are prepared to consider that course, we are prepared to adopt it.
I think that is nothing but a slick ruse to get this Dáil to adjourn. Here we have a Workmen's Compensation Bill which has been on the Order Paper for a long time. We were pressing for that Bill and we were promised it before last Easter. There was a long delay in introducing it and, when it got a First Reading, it was left on the Order Paper for a long time before we saw the Bill. Now we are asked to pass three stages of it in a matter of a few hours or else leave it over until October. It is a shabby trick with regard to a Workmen's Compensation Bill. What you are trying to do is to make a political mangle out of this Assembly, which is a deliberative Assembly, a legislative Assembly.
Talk to Deputy Corish about his arrangement with Fine Gael.
Will you tell us about it?
There is no need to get excited over it. This is a deliberative Assembly. It is intended that the members who come here——
That is why we refuse to rush the debate on what are regarded as very fundamental amendments. If the Deputy wants to have proposals for a comprehensive Bill seriously considered he can have that, but we refuse to consider them in a rushed atmosphere.
You refused to work.
Why the panic to get an early adjournment?
The House is being given this test, to pass all these stages to-day in a panic without any examination. We want to put in amendments on the Report Stage as well as on the Committee Stage and we ought to get that opportunity. Why cannot the House meet on Tuesday or Wednesday next week to deal with this Workmen's Compensation Bill? In our view, it is much more important than some of the Bills on which we spent so much time. And now we are going to be prevented from meeting next week in order to finish the Workmen's Compensation Bill in an atmosphere that does some credit to Parliament.
You spent the time on less important business.
We did?
Who spent the time on the Health Bill?
You forced the Health Bill for discussion during the financial period.
I think it is much more important that the House should meet on Tuesday or Wednesday of next week—on both days if necessary—to deal with this Workmen's Compensation Bill and any other business that is necessary rather than that the Government should be showing itself off at Ballsbridge. I do not want the Minister for Finance to be denied the pleasure of preening himself in thataugust gathering, but I do suggest that on the difference between whether the Minister for Finance is to go to Ballsbridge to show himself off next week, or that the House should concentrate on finishing the Workmen's Compensation Bill——
I would like to see you on a double bank.
——I think notwithstanding the vanity of the Minister for Finance it is much more important that the House should deal with the Workmen's Compensation Bill.
Who is wasting time now?
The trouble about this Government——
We must have the motion if we are to sit late.
This is a disgraceful state of affairs.
The motion is that the House sit not later than 12 o'clock midnight.
Will the Tánaiste say why the House will not meet next week?
There is no evidence that we have any motion that the House will not sit later than 12 o'clock.
I thought it was 4 o'clock.
No, 12 o'clock, but I said that business would be interrupted at 4 o'clock for the Estimate for Agriculture.
Has the Minister nothing to say on the motion?
The purpose of sitting late is that we will give the Dáil an opportunity of finishing the business ordered for to-day.
Assuming that that motion is passed——
Am I still in possession or not?
Deputy Norton.
I thought that the Ceann Comhairle had intervened on a point of general order.
I want to know why the House cannot sit on Tuesday or Wednesday next.
Because you would not be here.
Why is it so urgent that the Government should run away for almost three months and yet they do not want to go to the country?
Will the Deputy undertake that if we do sit on Tuesday or Wednesday next we will get the Workmen's Compensation Bill finished in all stages?
Absolutely.
It could not be done.
What does the Deputy want?
I am willing to pass all stages next week for you.
Will you let me speak?
Now you are afraid it will be passed.
Is the Deputy afraid to listen?
Who is talking for the Government, the Tánaiste or you?
Ah! go on with your nonsense.
The Tánaiste asked if the Workmen's Compensation Bill would be passed in all stages and the answer is, "certainly".
Will you let me say a word?
Having given the Tánaiste an assurance that we will passall stages of the Workmen's Compensation Bill on one day next week, what is the answer of the Tánaiste?
I shall answer.
It is the Tánaiste's answer we want.
I think that the answer should come from the Minister in charge of the Bill.
Why did you ask the question? He does not want an answer. There is no purpose in losing our tempers about this. I took it that notwithstanding that the Minister for Social Welfare will come in, the Tánaiste asked the question, and the obvious thing was that if he got a reply he would decide something in the light of that reply. Now he wants to withdraw from the scene and pass it over to the Minister for Social Welfare.
On a point of order, I think every Deputy in this House has the right to have something to say on this if he wants to. Deputy Norton is challenging an answer from the Tánaiste on a matter which this House has to decide.
That is not a point of order.
Will you explain to Deputy Cowan that if we wish we can discuss this motion until 12 o'clock to-night?
I can do it, too.
And to-morrow, and the day after, and all next week.
Let us hear Deputy Norton on the motion to sit not later than 12 o'clock.
Does Deputy Norton understand that he is speaking to that motion?
I understood the motion was before the House.
I want to insistthat there was not a motion made to sit late and that there was no motion put before the House at all.
The Tánaiste moved that the House should sit late and that the motion to adjourn be taken not later than 12 o'clock midnight.
Of course, Deputy General Mulcahy will not understand anything.
What is wrong with permitting the House to deal with the Committee Stage of the Workmen's Compensation Bill to-day and deal with the Report and Final Stages on Tuesday or Wednesday next? Our concern is to make sure that the Bill is passed before the Dáil goes on holidays for the next three months. It is only fair to the injured workmen of the country that it should be passed.
Deputy Norton has asked that question several times. Unless he has any further contribution to make he will please sit down.
Sit down.
I will not sit down for any petty captain or for any Red Nuncio either.
If Deputy Norton has no other contribution to make to the motion he should resume his seat. He has put the question to the Tánaiste several times, and if he has no other contribution to make——
I have indeed, Sir. You will observe when you read the Official Report the amount of interruption to which we have been subjected this morning. The Official Report this morning will not make illuminating reading. All these angry wolves came in here this morning——
Let us get back to the motion.
The motion, Sir, is that the Dáil should sit until midnight to-night, and I want to protest against that because I think it is an outrageon parliamentary government that on the last day on which the Dáil sits we should be asked to pass three stages of a Bill in a matter of such importance while this Dáil at the Government's request proposes to go on holidays for three months. Why will not the Government permit the House to sit on one or two days next week? We have business to do. That is what the Government was elected to do. That is what this Government is paid for. They are going to be paid for the next three months while they are on holidays, and this Parliament is going to be paid. Why should not this Parliament meet for the purpose of dealing with legislation as essential as I think this is, legislation for the workmen which is vital to most of them because of the inadequate compensation they are receiving under the Workmen's Compensation Act to-day, especially having regard to the increase in prices during the past few years? I think the Tánaiste in common decency should review the decision that the Government has come to in not permitting the Dáil to discuss this Workmen's Compensation Bill to-day.
It is ordered for to-day.
And we are willing to take it to-day and have offered to facilitate the Government in taking it to-day.
You are wasting the time that might be spent on it.
Let us keep to the motion.
It must be embarrassing even to Deputy Cowan, who was described already as the Red Nuncio. We want to deal with the Workmen's Compensation Bill. I want to say that we want to pass the Committee Stage to-day and that we are willing to take the Report and Fifth Stages on some day next week, whatever day the Government chooses. Is not that a fair offer?
But are we?
The Deputy knows that it is not a fair offer. A number of amendments have been put down to this Bill which involve comprehensive changes in the law. They could not be considered and should not be considered in 24 hours. It will take some time—at least a fortnight—to give them full consideration, if they are to be adopted as necessary amendments in the proper form as drafted by the parliamentary draftsman. Might I recall that we made a suggestion that this Workmen's Compensation Bill, which is described as an interim Bill, should be passed now and that these more comprehensive and fundamental changes in the law should be considered during the recess by a Dáil Committee with a view to having a comprehensive Bill later? There is a course which will ensure that the benefits of the existing Bill will be secured to workers as soon as possible and ample time given for consideration of the more fundamental changes in the law which we might think are necessary in that law.
I ask for the protection of the Chair. This business cannot be carried on by Deputy Norton sitting back and waiting for a statement by the Tánaiste and intervening again. I do not think that is right. There is no protection for individuals.
The Tánaiste asked for permission to intervene in the debate which I gladly and willingly agreed to. If the Tánaiste's supporter is annoyed about that I cannot help him.
I am concerned about the order in the House.
The Tánaiste knows that that is a specious plea. You are saying to this House: "You cannot put in any amendment to this Bill because we have no time to consider it, we are in such a hurry to adjourn".
No, that is not the point, that is not what I said. The Deputy knows as well as I do that the drafting of amendments to that Bill to effect the comprehensive changes which are envisaged in it could not be completed by the parliamentary draftsmaneven in a fortnight. We could not have these amendments.
You could not do it in three and a half years.
There was there a reasonable suggestion to the Dáil to pass this interim Bill as it stands perhaps with some partial amendments and deal with these comprehensive changes in a more systematic way.
What are the changes? We put down nine amendments to this Bill.
Why did you not put in a Bill when you had an opportunity?
Will somebody give this alderman from Drogheda some instructions on propriety?
The Labour Party's funny man.
That is all right in a rural district council, but this is not a rural district council.
There is nothing disgraceful in a rural district council.
Not in itself. It is a member of it that is disgraceful.
Stop this mud slinging.
Every member of this House has a right to speak.
Deputy Walsh will restrain himself.
We put in nine amendments to this Bill. Four of them have been ruled out of order by the Ceann Comhairle. Of the five, one is consequential, so that in fact we have only to deal with four amendments as far as we are concerned. The Minister put in an equal number of amendments. Why cannot our amendments be discussed? What the Tánaiste is saying is that we have really no time to discuss the amendments put in by the Labour Party.
No.
This Bill is submittedfrom the Government, but it is saying now: "Set up a committee which will have to look at the whole question from the beginning."
The suggestion was that a Dáil Committee should be set up and work during the recess in dealing with this comprehensive measure. The Deputy knows that there is no code of legislation which is so frequently subject to court actions as the workmen's compensation code. We should not rush amendments to that code which are bound to be the subject to legal interpretation subsequently. They would require to be very carefully drafted.
Does not the Tánaiste know that we were promised this Bill before last Easter? The Government delayed the submission of the Bill.
What about the three and a half years the Deputy delayed it?
I will get back to the three and a half years. The Government delayed this Bill since last Easter, and it was delayed deliberately by the Government with this object in view to rush it into the Dáil on the last day and prevent the Dáil making amendments in the Bill. We have this reference to the three and a half years. Let us see what happened.
Nothing.
In 1948 the maximum compensation paid to an injured workman was 33/6 per week.
That does not arise on this motion.
Deputy Larkin said he would not support it.
What happened during the three and a half years and what amendments were made to the workmen's compensation code do not arise on this motion.
I agree. Let me put it this way. This Workmen's Compensation Bill which the Government isintroducing is providing for certain increases for a married man if he has got a wife and two children or a wife and one child, but it does not give one halfpenny increase——
Has this anything to do with whether we sit late or not?
Will Deputy Cowan please allow me to conduct the business? Deputy Norton must not now proceed to discuss the merits or demerits of the Bill. The motion before the House is that the Dáil sit later than 2 p.m. and that the order for the adjournment be taken not later than midnight. That is the only thing that is relevant.
If the Standing Orders are to be complied with it will be impossible to deal with this Bill to-day.
Only because the Deputy is wasting time now.
No. We want to get the Bill through the Committee Stage. Give us that and we will be satisfied. We will have the Report and Final Stages next week and if we have, we will be satisfied. This Bill is not going to be passed by the Government, apparently. They will not sit next week to do so and let us have the benefits under the Bill. Let me say this, that no single man or woman will get a farthing additional benefit under this Bill. That is true.
That is on the merits or demerits of the measure and I cannot allow that to be discussed.
It is in order that we might have an opportunity of submitting an amendment to this Bill and discussing the whole question in a manner that does credit to the deliberative character of Parliament, that we think that the House should deal with the Committee Stage to-day and the Report and Final Stages next week. There is no delay, as far as we are concerned. There is no reason why we should not discuss amendments. That is the privilege of this Parliament. It does not matter if the Governmentis looking for amendments— we are not objecting to that, we want to give Parliament an opportunity of discussing them if you can convince the Parliament that they should be passed. But Parliament ought to get an opportunity of registering its view on these amendments. That is its primary right. The Government have no right to take it from us because they are in a hurry to go on holidays.
Nobody is taking it.
Give us the Committee Stage to-day. We will not spend any undue time on it. We will give you the Report and Final Stages one day next week. There is no reason why, no matter what you think of the amendments, the House should not get an opportunity of discussing them.
Deputy Norton has said that several times.
Deputy Norton was not here last week at all when that measure was being debated here.
He was attending to another job.
I understood that the motion was that we should sit not later than midnight to-night. Perhaps I was wrong but I understood that that was the motion before the House —that we would sit until midnight to-night, if necessary.
That is the motion.
I cannot understand, then, why we should now have a discussion as to the Committee and Report Stages of Bills. There is no motion that the Dáil adjourn until the autumn in the motion which is at present before the House. I want, if I can, to approach this problem in a reasonable way. I think the Tánaiste ought to order, as part of the business, all the Estimates that are on the Order Paper. The Estimates, in my view, ought to be ordered to-day. If we sit late to-night, and if there is a bit of reason on the part of the Assembly, I do not see why the Committee and all stages of the Workmen's CompensationBill should not be passed—that is, provided there is a reasonable approach by everybody in regard to it. As Deputy Norton says, that Bill confers certain benefits and it is desirable that these benefits should be in operation right away. It is the easiest thing in the world to say that the Dáil are going on holidays. After all, there has to be consideration of the staff of this House and there has to be consideration of a number of other matters in relation to the business of the House. I think that, on the Orders of the day, the Tánaiste ought to order all the Estimates. If they are not ordered to-day, and if we adjourn either this week or next week, they are going to hang over until the autumn and valuable and important parliamentary time is to be wasted in the autumn.
I think that if Deputy Norton and Deputy Corish, as one of the Whips, and all the other Whips get together now and approach this matter in a reasonable frame of mind, we will be able to pass the Workmen's Compensation Bill to-day and confer the benefits which we are anxious should be conferred on the married workmen and their children. On that basis, I think that the Labour Party would agree that the Order fixing the Courts of Justice Bill for next week be discharged and, by agreement of the House, to take that Bill as it stands, with the ministerial amendments, and pass it—deleting, as the Minister agreed, Section 12. I think we can do that if a little bit of reason and common sense is applied to this whole matter. What we require is to do the work and not to talk about the work.
I want to be quite clear on this because I am not clear on it at the moment. The Parliamentary Secretary to the Taoiseach will agree that at 10.30 or thereabouts last night, just after the adjournment of the House, I asked him what would be the business for to-day. He gave me the number of items that have been read out. I asked him if it was proposed to sit late, and he said that he could not at that stage tell me. However, when we got the Order of Business in the ordinary way in the morning—which issent through the courtesy of the Parliamentary Secretary's office—we have the same items as those which have been enumerated, but there is no mention at all on it of any motion to sit late. I am not, even yet, clear as to what the terms of the motion are—and I want to be clear in that regard. Firstly, I understand that it is suggested that the House sit not later than midnight to-night. Secondly, I understand that it is suggested that, when the Dáil is rising to-night, a second motion will be moved—a motion that the House adjourn until the 20th October next. That much I have followed, but I am not clear as to the Tánaiste's suggestion in relation to 4 o'clock. Am I correct in thinking that it concerns the Agricultural Estimate—that at 4 o'clock we will stop whatever we are doing and do the Agricultural Estimate?
First of all, I should like to say that no discourtesy was intended. A suggestion was made by the Minister for Social Welfare to the Labour Party in regard to the Workmen's Compensation Bill, and that suggestion was under consideration by the Labour Party last evening. I understand that they conveyed their view on the matter to the Minister at about 10.30 p.m. It was not, therefore, possible to determine the procedure for to-day until after that. The Workmen's Compensation Bill is being ordered for to-day in the hope that the suggestion of the Minister for Social Welfare will be acceptable to the House and that the Bill can be passed. If that does not prove to be so, then it cannot be done. The purpose is to order that the Estimate for the Department of Agriculture be taken to-day but, in any event, that it will be taken at 4 p.m., and to go on from that.
Certainly it is difficult to see how the Workmen's Compensation Bill can be passed to-day unless we are forced to do so.
It is only an interim measure.
The difficulty does not seem to be the actual timethat would be taken in debating any of the stages. The Minister's difficulty seems to be in relation to an examination of the amendments by his departmental experts. May I, therefore, suggest that we take the Committee Stage of the Workmen's Compensation Bill to-day and that we meet next Wednesday week to complete the Report and Fifth Stages in one day? That would give the Minister and his experts in the Department time to examine these amendments.
As I explained to Deputy Corish last night, I could not even consider accepting these amendments— amendments which, it is admitted, would turn this interim measure into a comprehensive measure. I am sure every Deputy realises that if the draftsman were asked to draft a comprehensive measure of workmen's compensation he would take at least a few months. Some of these amendments go to the very root of the matter. I could not possibly do anything except indicate that I agreed with the principle of one of these amendments. I may say that that refers to going on a percentage rather than a lump sum. I am told that the draftsman would require a few weeks before he could say what it would entail or what would be followed by it. I hoped that the Labour Party would agree to let this Bill through, with amendments in line, as an interim measure. Otherwise, we shall have to postpone the Bill for several weeks—the Committee Stage to be taken in two or three weeks' time and the Report Stage after that. The result would be that the Bill would not pass through this House until the end of August. I do not know whether the Dáil thinks it is worth while to spend the month of August on that simple Bill.
It is.
I think the House should let the present Bill through. At least, it is something more than what Deputy Norton did.
Five years ago I gavethem the 50/-. You will not give them another halfpenny.
Let us go on from that, at any rate. Let the Dáil set up a committee to consider this comprehensive measure—which will be ready, if you like, when we come back. There is the choice. Will Deputies take what is there to go on with, or wait until next October?
The Minister appears to be agreeable—very agreeable. Let us have a little more reason on both sides of the House. I do not want to go into the question of delay in regard to the introduction of the Bill: that is past history. However, when we debated the Second Stage of the Bill this week, the Minister was quite well aware from the tenor of the debate on all sides of the House that it was certain that there would be an amendment bringing in a percentage principle. It is in the Bill already: all we are trying to do is to remove the ceiling. Yet, knowing that, he reached agreement with the House to take the Committee Stage to-day. If we are serious about the Bill, what was the purpose in agreeing to take the Committee Stage to-day, knowing very well that we could not deal with these amendments which, quite properly, would come within the debate? The Minister says that many of the amendments are fundamental to the Bill. Most of the amendments have been struck out of order.
Is that not an argument in favour of the course which we are proposing?
It is not. In fact, we are left with a very small number of amendments, three of which are the Minister's. Are we not entitled to examine the Minister's amendments?
Certainly.
All right. I suggest that we should all be concerned in the matter as to whether we are going to get this interim measure through as quickly as possible in order to provide increased assistance to injured workmen. There may be a difference of opinion as to whether we should give the increase to single men or not, butwe are entitled to examine that on this Bill and to have a reasonable time to do so. Even though there may be a feeling that we should have regard for the staff of the House and for members of the Dáil and the Government, we are also entitled to have some regard for the injured workman. If it means coming back even for another week or fortnight, why should we not do so?
That will not do it.
We are not dealing with a comprehensive measure. We are taking part of the Bill which is already there and removing the ceiling. The principle is still in the Bill and I suggest that there is nothing unreasonable in the suggestion that we take the Committee Stage to-day, as the Minister reached agreement on it and as we facilitated him. It is quite possible that these amendments will not be passed at all, but we are still entitled to look at the Bill as it comes out of Committee on Report Stage. We should be facilitated and the people who stand to benefit should be facilitated by letting us meet again on one day next week to finish the Bill.
I suggest that we go on with the business and that the Labour Deputies might consider the position between now and the time the Bill will come up.
Will you consider it again?
We have considered it and we realise that comprehensive amendments would have to be very carefully framed. It is almost certain that the significance of every one would be tested in the courts of law and we should not rush them. The legal advisers just would not attempt to frame these amendments in a hurry. They have to be carefully considered and there is no possibility of having them ready for the Dáil next week.
The most vital amendment is the one which seeks to give compensation on a percentage basis and to remove the ceiling.
That changes the whole system.
Why can we not get a discussion on it and let Parliament express its opinion?
If you will stop talking, we will have the discussion later on.
If you would try to think over it, we would get further on.
I have thought over it more than the Deputy.
Suppose we proceed with the Committee Stage to-day and this particular amendment, seeking to eliminate the 50/- ceiling, is defeated, we are back to the Minister's proposal, and I think he will agree, in view of the fact that there have been strong feelings expressed, that there should be some increase given to single men, that we are then entitled to see what can be done on Report Stage, within the framework of the Minister's amendment.
Why can we not get that?
Deputy Blowick.
We are quite prepared to dispose of an interim Workmen's Compensation Bill in this session, but if a more comprehensive Bill is to be adopted, more time is required for its preparation.
Mr. Larkin rose.
I have called Deputy Blowick.
I fail to understand the haste with which the Government are anxious to adjourn.
Do not break down in tears.
You were not here last night.
There are 42 individual Estimates which are going to be postponed until October or November. I cannot understand that.
The motionbefore the House is a motion to sit late.
The Tánaiste also proposed that the Dáil adjourn to 20th October, unless my hearing is defective. I understand there are two motions before the House, one to sit late——
There is only one yet.
And, if the second one is carried, we will all go out of here broken-hearted and with tears streaming down our faces.
One of the most important Estimates of the year, the Estimate for the Department of Agriculture, is being brought in here as a stopgap, to fill up spaces in Government time—one of the most important Estimates of the whole 71.
The Deputy is speaking to a motion which is not before the House.
I am opposing the motion.
The motion is that the House sit late.
I cannot understand the Government's attitude, in view of the fact that they wasted the time of the House all the summer.
On the Health Bill?
We will not discuss the Health Bill, but we might discuss the 27 hours of parliamentary time taken on a confidence motion which was a fiasco.
The motion before the House is a motion to sit late.
It is, and I am opposed to that motion. The Department of Agriculture Vote is to come before us at 4 o'clock, and I am opposed to this shoving of the most important Vote of the year into holes and corners as is being done. We should have a full and open discussion and we should sit next week and theweek after, until the business of the House has been disposed of.
You were not here for the last fortnight and you will not be here the next fortnight.
If the Government want to parade in the ring at Balls-bridge, let them go out there, but let us sit the week after. I am quite prepared to come back that week, if they want to do that. What I think is the reason behind all this indecent haste to adjourn the House is to ensure that the House cannot discuss matters while the by-election in Galway is on.
The motion before the House is a motion to sit late—the adjournment motion is not before the House.
And I am trying to speak to that motion, if the interruptions from the other side would cease.
The Deputy is not speaking to the motion to sit late.
I cannot speak to any motion while the interruptions from the other side continue.
The Deputy is not speaking to the motion to sit late.
The Government took office to conduct the business of the House and not to give themselves three months' holidays, leaving a whole mass of the most important business unfinished.
The Deputy is still speaking to a motion which is not before the House.
Deputy Blowick and his colleagues are obstructing the business of the House.
The Parliamentary Secretary to the Taoiseach will agree that, on several occasions during recent weeks, I have complained that the manner in which the Estimate for the Department of Agriculture was being taken was unsatisfactory. I know that the reason it was suspended at one time was the unfortunate illness of the Minister. That could not be avoided, but, since then, it has been used to fillup tea intervals and so forth. The motion, as I understand it, is that we should sit late to-night for the purpose, amongst other things, of finishing the main Estimate for the Department of Agriculture and the Supplementary Agriculture Estimate. If the Government deem it necessary that these two Estimates should be properly disposed of this session, I cannot see why they cannot be taken next week. I cannot see why, having regard to the manner in which the Agriculture Estimate has been chopped and changed for luncheon and tea intervals over past weeks, having regard to the manner in which it has been allotted bits and pieces of time, it should now suddenly be wound up like this between 4 p.m. and midnight on the last day of the session.
In all honesty, the Deputy expected the debate on the Estimate for Agriculture to finish last evening.
The Tánaiste can take it that it will not finish this evening. I will talk for six hours, if necessary, to talk it out.
A little earlier, we got to the point of more or less agreeing——
Several Deputies have already spoken and are speaking again.
I am not ruling rigidly, but I will soon have to rule rigidly.
For a moment we had practically reached agreement that the Committee Stage of the Workmen's Compensation Bill would be taken to-day. In the event of one of our amendments being defeated we are entitled to try and retrieve the position of the single man on the Report Stage. It is not fair to ask us to go straight from the Committee Stage to the Report Stage and to draft suitable amendments. It is solely for that purpose that we desire to have the Report Stage taken on Tuesday.
We are taking theEstimate for Agriculture after the Committee Stage and we could then have a look at the situation which existed.
I think that is sensible.
What objection is there to sitting next week?
Yes. What is wrong with that?
We will have the Deputy here.
Everybody knows, particularly those who held ministerial rank, that it is all nonsense to talk about a Minister going on holidays. There is very little possibility of a Minister getting a holiday. It is during the period of recess that the Government does most of its work. There is a feeling and a desire to close this session now and give an opportunity of looking at the programme for next session. There will be a long programme for next session. Although it is true to say that the Estimate for the Department of Agriculture has been frequently interrupted, it has got as much time from the House as ever it got.
I do not think so.
That is not so.
There is going to be a much heavier programme next session than is normal for that session. A number of Bills have to be enacted and Estimates passed. I think we are proceeding in a reasonable way in ordering the business so as to enable it to be completed and to give a full opportunity to the Deputies to express any views they wish.
I do not think the Tánaiste can indicate to the House that there is any good reason why the House cannot meet one day next week.
The argument against meeting next week to deal with the Workmen's Compensation Bill is that comprehensive amendments to that Bill would not be ready. If it was only a question of some minor details thatcould be facilitated, but there is no possibility of having prepared by the legal advisers to the Government comprehensive amendments to the Bill for consideration by the Dáil.
Will they be ready next week?
I started this business of preparing a Workmen's Compensation code 20 years ago. It is a very intricate and difficult matter and we should not attempt to rush it.
Am I to take it that the Minister for Social Welfare has got all the amendments for the Committee Stage ready?
He has.
Yes.
So that all the amendments which it is necessary for the parliamentary draftsman to draft at this stage are drafted?
No. It is the other way.
I cannot understand why the Tánaiste can say that the parliamentary draftsman cannot draft the other amendments before it is decided what the amendments are going to be.
Some minor changes of a drafting kind in the interim Bill could be prepared, but the preparation of amendments which would mean changing the whole basis of the workmen's compensation law should not and could not be rushed in a fortnight.
On that point we have an amendment down, and if there is a feeling that if it is passed it will create difficulty for the Minister the matter can be dealt with on Report Stage. It is most unlikely that it will be passed, and we want to be in a position to deal with the position which will arise on the Report Stage, and we are entitled to a reasonable time to look into the matter. We are entitled to meet next week for one day.
I would not precludethat, subject to what the Minister for Social Welfare has to say, if it was clear the position was of such a character that the Bill could be disposed of.
It could be.
If the Committee Stage of the Bill is cleared, the Report Stage could reasonably be disposed of in one day next week.
We will give all facilities next week.
We are quite prepared to co-operate in any reasonable arrangement.
Let us see how we emerge from the Committee Stage.
You do not rule out meeting next week?
No, if it is clear that the meeting is for the purpose of dealing with and disposing of the Bill.
The Tánaiste has not yet moved the other motion in relation to the rising of the House. Will I get some formal notice whenever the motion is going to be made that the House "do rise until"?
What time does the Deputy require?
As I understand the position, that motion cannot be moved until the Committee Stage of the Workmen's Compensation Bill is finished. I suggest that when the Committee Stage of the Workmen's Compensation Bill is finished we might consider what to do and it would be moved.
On the Order of Business. Unfortunately, the Leader of the Fine Gael Party and the Leader of the Opposition are not here at the moment. I think there ought to be agreement in the House that the Estimates which are not reached on the Adjournment ought to be put automatically.
Certainly not.
I am entitled to express that point of view on the Order of Business. Last year it was agreed to pass a number of Estimates subject to the right of discussion. That had the effect of upsetting the whole session of Parliament in the early stages. In the British Parliament time is given for a certain number of Estimates.
The Deputy knows that the Government always order the business.
I am entitled, I submit with respect, to say to the Government that they ought to order the Estimates. I am putting this not only to the Government but to the House.
The Order of Business has been agreed to already and has been accepted.
Last year it was decided to dispose of the Estimates on an undertaking that token Estimates would be introduced later. No arrangement like that was possible this year and that is why we took the Vote on Account. That means we have to dispose of the Estimates before the end of November.
I appreciate that fully. The suggestion I am making is that the Whips might consult about the matter to-day. The House might agree to pass the Estimates before we adjourn so that we could have the new session clear for the important legislation that awaits us. We are legislating.
Last year the procedure adopted was to pass the Estimates without discussion and to take token Estimates in the autumn session will not, in fact, save time.
I know that.