This is an Estimate which gives great scope to individual Deputies to raise matters which they consider to be of importance both to the general economic well-being of the country and the welfare of their own particular constituencies. Some months ago, I raised a question in this House in connection with the desirability of developing a well-known Irish industry, namely, the distilling industry. At the time I did so, I found that little attention was being paid to that very important aspect of our economy. However, in order to bring home the seriousness of the situation, and to convince this House as well as the general public of the tremendous importancewhich this industry could be, I decided to put a motion on the Order Paper so as to obtain the views of all the members, and at the same time focus the spotlight of attention on the necessity for expanding the industry.
The motion which I put on the Order Paper asked the Government to set up a committee representative of the Government and of the distilling industry, that the committee would examine the best means by which we could develop the distilling industry, and that as a result of its inquiries a report would be made to this House so that suitable action could then be taken. I asked that this particular motion, in view of its importance, would, if possible, be taken in conjunction with the Estimate which the House is at present discussing. I should like, at this stage, to thank the Minister for Industry and Commerce for his courtesy and co-operation in the matter when he stated that he had no objection to this motion being discussed with the Estimate.
The motion was not put on the Order Paper for the purpose of causing annoyance to any particular Party or of starting a controversy in the House. It was put down for the purpose of focusing attention on the desirability of expanding this industry, and of pointing out the benefits that would accrue if the necessary steps were taken for its development. What really put this matter in my mind at the beginning was the fact that I found that the exports of Scottish whiskey last year were worth £32,000,000, while in the same period the exports of Irish whiskey were worth less than £500,000. I am personally convinced that, if this industry received the attention that it justly deserves and was tackled with enterprise and initiative, within 15 years, which may sound a long period to many members, it would not only beat our tourist industry but could possibly beat our main trade to-day, which is the cattle industry.
I have here a copy of a publication which is issued in Britain every fortnight. It is known as the Beverage News.I find from it that a prominent distiller, speaking within the last fewweeks in connection with exports of Scottish whiskey, said: “We are actually the largest single dollar earner of any industry in this country.” We have heard a lot about the drive in Britain for the American market with regard to the export of motor cars and so forth, and of the tremendous sacrifices which are being made in Britain to-day so that they can earn dollars in America and thus provide themselves with the necessities of life in the purchase of food.
It has been established that the biggest single dollar earner to-day in the United Kingdom is the whiskey trade. I gave the figures which indicated that, last year, the Scottish export trade for Scotch whiskey was worth £32,000,000, while our export trade in Irish whiskey in the same period was worth less than £500,000. I felt that, in view of the interest that was being taken in the development of export markets, in the present year an effort would be made, small though it might be, to increase our exports of Irish whiskey. I put a question down which was answered to-day dealing with the export of Irish whiskey in the last six months and the comparable figures for the first six months last year. I find that from January to June, 1952, the export value of Irish whiskey was £292,000, and in the first six months of this year, 1953, the export value of Irish whiskey was £167,000. Therefore, straightway we have a reduction in the first half of 1953 of over £120,000 in the export value of an important commodity such as whiskey.
Those are the Irish figures. Let us see what has happened in Scotland with Scotch whiskey during the first six months of 1952 and the first six months of 1953. Between January and June, 1952, the export value of Scotch whiskey was £16,200,000; between January and June, 1953, the export value of Scotch whiskey was £17,400,000 —these are round figures. In other words, the increase in the earnings on whiskey in these two comparable periods was over £1,200,000, while ours showed a reduction of over £120,000.
In the last few days a certain gentleman who is the executive vice-Presidentof the National Association of Alcoholic Beverage Importers, Incorporated in America, said in London that the 1953 shipment of Scotch whiskey will be the largest in volume and value ever made. That gentleman was in a position to speak— I will not quote his name but what he said is quite true. So far, we have no indication in this country that any increase has taken place or is about to take place; in fact from the figures I have given it would appear that we are in for a reduction in the value of our export trade.
We may ask why is it that the position is so bad with regard to the export of Irish whiskey. First of all, I would like to say that I believe one of the troubles all along has been that this important industry has been left in the hands of very conservative people. Our major distilleries to-day are still family concerns and as such have argued that they cannot be expected to take the risks of expansion at the wish of any Government. Their attitude has been that an attempt made by them to break into the dollar area, especially on a large scale, would leave them in the position of incurring the grave risk of a heavy financial loss. Their argument, as outlined by the secretary of the Pot Distillers Association, has been that the Government should pay handsomely; in other words the distillers are prepared to take such a risk.
As far as I personally am concerned —and I am sure there are other Deputies on all sides of the House who will agree—that will not wash to-day. The greatest argument—and we have had many arguments in this House in the last week about private enterprise— that can be put up in favour of private enterprise is that it is enterprising. I feel that no Deputy can for a moment say that those who have had responsibility for the distilling industry have shown enterprise in the last 20 to 30 years. We have plenty of examples of where State or semi-State companies or enterprises have shown initiative and have shown themselves willing to adopt go-ahead methods in their various lines. When some months ago this matter began to receive publicitythe Pot Distillers' Association rushed into print to defend their position and at the same time, I suppose naturally, blamed the Government for the situation that existed. We find that their spokesman in a letter to the Press, which is available in all the daily papers, stated as follows:—
"We would expect our Government to assist rather than handicap the industry as they have done by the crushing weight of taxation imposed on it. The industry must depend on the home market as the export market is problematic in these times."
That statement has been made by the Secretary of the Distillers Association within the last six months. Let us examine the statement and see how it stands up to a little criticism. The first argument is that the Government by the crushing weight of taxation on the industry have handicapped its development. It is an extraordinary thing that the spirit duty is considerably higher in Scotland than it is here; yet that does not prevent the Scottish distillers from selling £32,000,000 worth of whiskey abroad. The Pot Distillers Association goes on to say that the Government have handicapped the industry and hindered its development. That argument can be exploded, too, because since 1939 the output of Irish potstill whiskey has increased by almost 70 per cent. If that is the case I cannot see how the Pot Distillers Association can suggest that the Government have hindered its expansion. Those two arguments put up by the Pot Distillers Association have been exploded. The fact remains and cannot be contradicted that the distillers have shirked their duty to the State and have failed in their duty of securing a foreign dollar trade. It is clear, to my mind, at any rate, judging from the pronouncements of those who speak as representatives of the distilling industry that they have no real intention of embarking on an export trade on a large or a grand scale. I personally would not mind at all if it were an unimportant industry—then it might not be worth arguing about in this House—but in view of its tremendousimportance to the nation I think we must take alarm at their outlook and that steps must be taken to ensure that, whether they like it or not, this industry is expanded.
I do not intend to go into the details of the benefits that this distilling industry would give the community, but I would like to touch on a few points that might be of interest. We have had a lot of talk here by Deputies on the importance of growing here at home as much of our foodstuffs as possible. Whiskey comes from the soil—in other words, the making of whiskey is based on agriculture. It provides a rich cash crop for the farmer; it provides work for the men in the distilleries; it provides whiskey for the maltsters; it provides work for those engaged in the glass bottle industry, in the printing trade, in the packing trade, in the manufacture of boxes, in Irish shipping and in Irish insurance. There are many services which can be associated with the production of this commodity known as whiskey.
Let us get back to the most important aspect of our economy, agriculture. Here is a product based on agriculture. Not one iota of all that is concerned in the manufacture of whiskey is imported. Everything in connection with its manufacture is produced here in Ireland. Incidentally, one of the things that urge me to take an interest in this matter is the fact that some of my own constituents have an excellent record for years past as growers of malting barley. Last year, out of the blue, all those men were told by their particular maltster that their contracts for malting barley had been reduced by 50 per cent. That was a blow to agriculture. The land of many of those farmers who grow malting barley is not suitable for the growing of wheat. If we are serious, as I am sure all Deputies are serious, about the importance of agriculture and tillage, here is an ideal tillage crop providing both foodstuffs for the farmer as well as a cash crop; and in addition, after the making of the whiskey, the effluent that has been allowed to flow into the stream can now be processed into an excellent feedingstuff for pigs. Therefore, not a thing is wasted from the time the seed is put into the ground until the final commodity is put on the counter.
I do not suggest that overnight a great change be brought about in this industry—I have no such illusions —but I am convinced that if it is tackled on the right lines there is hope for the future. One of the arguments put up by those who say that it is difficult to get into foreign markets for Irish whiskey is that many people find the Irish product rather strong. Here at home we all agree that Irish whiskey is the best in the world. I am not going to dispute its merits or compare it with any other whiskey, but I would just say that we are the only people who say that, for the simple reason that it has not reached to the general public in many countries. In so far as the opinion goes of those who have tasted it in those countries, their view is that Irish whiskey as it stands or as it is exported to-day is not suitable to the palate of, particularly, the Americans and the Canadians.
That raises a very important point. Are we on the right lines at all in producing the type of whiskey at present made in the country? The whole question of development depends on this— to blend or not to blend? We can go on and try to expand the whiskey trade with the present potstill whiskey which we have, but if that pattern is followed I am convinced that the expansion will be very small indeed. We will be going against all the advice of those who deal with the public, we will be going against the wishes of those who should know; and it is an acknowledged fact that, in any business, in regard to any commodity you sell, you must please the customer, not yourself. If the world does not want Irish whiskey as we know it, there is no use in trying to sell it to them. Why not sell them a product that they like? That is where we come up against the difficulties in the whole industry, and that is the angle I want to air in this House.
There are many interests outside at present taking a very keen interest in the progress of this trade. The minute the Potstill Association hearsa word of our going on to a blended whiskey, they will be up in arms. Consequently, there will be great difficulties in the way of the Minister if he is to overcome the opposition of those conservative interests who want no change from the product that they have been distilling for years. Perhaps we should not blame them as individuals—I am not blaming them as such—but in view of what can be done with the industry I think it is unfair to allow their conservatism or their prejudices to thwart or halt the expansion of the industry.
I have got reports from very reliable sources in many countries and the reports from all over are in favour of a lighter blended whiskey. We even have Deputies who gave publicity to Irish whiskey at Strasbourg, where representatives of many nations were present. It was admitted by many of those representatives that Irish whiskey was an excellent product, but none of them would care to drink a great deal of it, as they were afraid it was too potent. That should give us some idea as to the tastes of other nations in relation to this commodity, and it is for their tastes that we must cater. It is no use boasting that Irish whiskey is the best in the world if the rest of the world will not buy it. We must shed our conservatism in this respect. There has been a good deal of talk of the conservatism of our farming community and the way in which that section of the population hankers after the old methods: what was good enough for my father is good enough for me. But there has been a tremendous change in the agricultural outlook in this country to-day, and that change is particularly patent in the case of the most conservative element in that community.
We have the distillers on the industrial side of our economy showing a far greater conservatism than the farmers ever did. Had the farmers not been prepared to adopt up-to-date methods and put on the market the type of goods required we would still be looking for an export market. The distillers will have to do likewise: they will have to take steps to meet the wishes of potential customers abroadin relation to whiskey. We must not permit these very conservative interests to ram it down our throats that their product, and their product alone, is the ideal one and that we should help them to expand that industry. I hope the Minister will not be said by one or two of these people.
I said at the outset that there is need for co-operation. I have obtained the views of some of the distillers upon this matter. I had a communication from the secretary of the Irish Potstill Distillers Association informing me that they saw no reason whatever for such a motion as I have tabled here. I have already given the reasons why they saw no need for that. In the words of the secretary of the association, they believe that it is a chancy thing to go into the dollar market and that the future of the industry depends on the home trade. That is the view of the conservative element. I can assure the Minster and the House that there are distillers who are not tied to this particular association and who are willing to co-operate with the Government in the establishment of some national concern prepared to go into this question of expansion in a big way in relation to a blended whiskey.
The Minister has shown great interest in this, and I believe that he is keener than anyone on the question of expanding our industries. When the report of Córas Tráchtála is available he should call these interests together and discuss with them the production of a blended whiskey. There are certain matters in connection with it that I do not wish to discuss here. I have painted the situation as I see it. It is quite possible that, when all the avenues have been explored, the Minister will decide to call for a reorganisation of the industry on a co-operative basis. It may be too early now to make that as a firm suggestion. I want the Minister to know my mind in this matter. I want him to know that so far as the farming community, Macra na Feirme, and the industrial and business interests are concerned they will be behind him in any effort he will make to expand this industry, and novested interests should be allowed to stand in the way of that expansion. I am sure the Minister will find that Córas Tráchtála will be all out for the export of a blended whiskey.
The general impression in America and Canada is that people prefer a lighter whiskey. So far, the efforts made by the Irish distillers to advertise their particular brand can only be described as puny. There are superb advertisements for whiskey in the American magazines. The principal theme running through those advertisements is that a particular whiskey is as light as Scotch, as rich as Rye and as satisfying as Bourbon. The one thing they ask for is lightness; that is one thing that our product lacks. I am sure many Deputies will admit that from their own experience.
After this motion had been tabled, the Minister decided to set up a sub-committee of Córas Tráchtála to examine the position. I understand he is now awaiting the report of that body. As soon as the report is available I hope he will bring the various interests concerned together so that their ideas can be pooled and we can go ahead with a proper line of attack.
In connection with the undeveloped areas, I have had occasion to visit the office of the Department of Industry and Commerce and Gaeltacht Services. I have always been met with courtesy and assistance on the part of the officials but, despite that courtesy and assistance, I am still where I started in so far as getting an industry established in Roscommen is concerned. There seems to be too much red tape in the administration of the Act. Some time ago I received a comprehensive list from the Department of Industry and Commerce setting out particular lines of textiles that the Department was anxious to see established under the Undeveloped Areas Act. The list showed what our requirements were and how much of those requirements had to be imported. I made a very simple request: could I be given a list of British firms engaged in the textile business so that our development association in Roscommon could get in touch with a likely firm across channel and discuss the possibilitieswith it of expansion of its industry here? I received a letter from the Minister's office informing me that a list of these British industrialists could be found in the National Library. If the Secretary of the Development Association in Roscommon were to write to all these people, not knowing one from the other, it would be a six months' job. I could not extract from the Minister's Department a list of, say, five or six firms that I might contact. I could not get it because of red tape, because they had no authority to give me such information.
Compare that with the attitude of the British Board of Trade towards businessmen. It should be an eye-opener to the Minister. I have here booklets issued to businessmen by the Export Promotion Department of the Board of Trade, London. Every businessman leaving London or Manchester for Canada, South Africa, Poland, or any other country in the world, is issued with a booklet giving up-to-date information on trade in these countries. The booklets are printed annually. In addition, the Board of Trade have a special register information service. They issue documents every week or every month. Some of them come under the heading, in red, "A Dollar Export Inquiry". One such document, a copy of which I have here, gives information regarding a U.S.A. inquiry for jams, jellies and marmalades, and states that the British Consulate General at San Francisco has reported that a particular company are interested in making a direct contact with a United Kingdom manufacturer of jams, jellies and marmalades. Such documents are issued every fortnight or when any inquiries are made. In contrast, when I inquire about industries, I am told by the Minister's Department to go to the National Library and to search the files.
Is there any such service as that given by the British Board of Trade available to Irish businessmen abroad? In the documents I have here the inquiries range over fancy chinaware, jams, jellies and marmalades, hardware tools and cooking ware, wood,flush doors, woollen, worsted and tweed piece goods, honey, biscuits. The Board of Trade gives information about particular firms looking for these goods. In one case they say that: "The firm is known to be a moderately small concern, importing a wide range of merchandise; they are interested in expanding their business to cover as wide an area as possible in the U.S.A. and would be willing to carry stocks if necessary."
By getting this information, the businessman knows where he stands. If you were to make such an inquiry of the Department you would be lucky if you got out without a libel action. I have here information supplied by the British Board of Trade about an inquiry in the United States of America to the British Vice-Consul for frozen fish fillets; an inquiry in respect of another dollar export—high quality glass tableware; an inquiry for earthenware and dinnerware, and bone china and earthenware teapots; an inquiry for toys; an inquiry for foodstuffs, including biscuits; an inquiry for scarves in Canada; an inquiry in the United States of America for men's and women's footwear; an inquiry for medium grade small leather goods, including gladstones, dispatch cases and men's 2-suiters. These documents indicate markets in America and Canada. I have documents giving information for other places, such as the Lebanon, about inquiries for various goods, plastic materials, paints, radios, recording machines.
What are our so-called diplomatic representatives in all these countries doing to-day? There is a lesson to be learned in the approach of the British Board of Trade towards these matters as compared with the approach of our Department. I am not blaming the Minister. I know he has enough on hands without trying to deal with every detail of his Department. My complaint is with regard to red tape. I want him to try to get that matter remedied. If we are serious about the establishment of industry under the Undeveloped Areas Act, people who show an interest must be facilitated and helped. The argument all along has been that if the people in therural areas who are howling for industries do not make some move they cannot be helped but when they do make a move they are stymied.
The development association with which I was connected were fortunate in the fact that I have to come to Dublin to the Dáil. How could they conduct their inquiries if it were not for that? It would mean that the secretary and others connected with the association would have to travel to Dublin and possibly would be told to make inquiries at the National Library or possibly might be sent to the Museum and even to the Zoo to get a list of industrialists dealing with these matters. The Department should be able to supply me with a simple answer, giving the information that a particular company were anxious to expand and to set up here. That is the only aspect of industry and commerce that I wish to discuss. I hope the Minister will remedy the situation.
