andMr. Desmondasked the Minister for Agriculture if he willstate the number of samples of milk intended for domestic consumption in Cork City and suburbs examined to determine the presence or otherwise of tubercle bacilli in 1952 and for the first nine months of 1953 in each of the following grades: (a) highest grade, (b) loose unpasteurised milk and (c) pasteurised milk and if he will indicate the result of those examinations.
Ceisteanna—Questions. Oral Answers. - Cork Milk Supplies.
andMr. Desmondasked the Minister for Agriculture if he will state the number of samples of milk intended for domestic consumption in Cork City and suburbs examined to determine the suitability or otherwise of the milk for human consumption in 1952 and for the first nine months of 1953 in each of the following grades: (a) highest grade, (b) loose unpasteurised and (c) pasteurised, and the result of those examinations.
Mr. Walsh
With your permission, a Cheann Comhairle, I propose to reply to Questions Nos. 40 and 42 together and to circulate with the Official Report a statistical statement showing, so far as returns are available to my Department, the numbers of samples of milk intended for domestic consumption in Cork City and suburbs examined by the Cork Corporation for the purposes of the Milk and Dairies Act in 1952 and in the first nine months of 1953. Particulars of the samples of loose unpasteurised milk so examined in the first nine months of 1953 are not yet available in my Department but they are being obtained and will be communicated to the Deputies.
As regards the suitability for human consumption of milk which fails to pass the tests made under the Milk and Dairies Act, I would refer the Deputies to the information given by me in reply to questions by Deputy Dr. Browne on 13th and 26th March, 1952.
All the samples tested in 1952 for the presence of tubercle bacilli were from loose unpasteurised milk, which forms the vast bulk of the supply of milk for domestic consumption in Cork City and suburbs.
Following is the statement:—
|
1952 |
1st January to 30th September, 1953 |
||||
|
Category |
Nature of Test |
No. of Samples tested |
No. that failed the test |
No. of Samples tested |
No. that failed the test |
|
(a) Highest Grade |
Methylene BlueBacillus Coli |
1212 |
22 |
99 |
33 |
|
(b) Loose Unpasteurised |
Biological Test for the presence of Tubercle Bacilli |
98 |
3 |
Not yet available |
|
|
Microscopic Test |
659 |
106 |
|||
|
Minit Dirt Test |
1,534 |
135 |
|||
|
(c) Pasteurised |
Plate Count Test |
24 |
5 |
18 |
3 |
Could the Minister tell the House has any progress been made in the efforts which the Department of Agriculture were making to get the Cork milk supply pasteurised?
Mr. Walsh
I am about to answer a question on that subject.
andMr. Desmondasked the Minister for Agriculture to state if his attention has been drawn to the report of a meeting of the Cork Workers' Council in a Cork newspaper on the 20th November which stated that there were numerous complaints about sour milk being delivered for domestic consumption in Cork City and suburbs; and, if so, if it is the intention to have the milk intended for domestic consumption in Cork City and suburbs pasteurised.
Mr. Walsh
I have seen a newspaper report of the meeting referred to. The report indicated that the council decided to take up the matter with the chief medical officer of the Cork Corporation, which is the local authority responsible for the administration of the Milk and Dairies Act in Cork County Borough.
As regards the second part of the question, proposals which have been put forward by the Cork Milk Producers' Co-operative Society for undertaking pasteurisation of the city's milk supplies would involve granting sole rights of pasteurisation to the society and prohibiting the sale of unpasteurised milk in the city. As I understand that there would be considerable local opposition to these provisos, I am hopeful that the society will be able to proceed without them. There is every reason to believe that the demand for pasteurised milk will satisfactorily expand in Cork, as it has in a number of other urban centres, once a supply becomes available.
Would the Minister consider the feasibility of a middle way, that is, to provide that the prohibition on the sale of milk other than pasteurised milk in Cork City would not come into force for, say, five or even ten years but that it would be made clear that at some future date any person wishing to sell milk for human consumption in the City of Cork would be required to pasteurise it?
Mr. Walsh
No. There is no prohibition on the sale of milk anywhere in Cork City.
I know that.
Mr. Walsh
Surely I am not going to come in and prohibit people selling their milk if there are people anxious to buy it?
There is no need to get cross. The problem is to get the milk pasteurised. The Minister finds himself in the difficulty that the farmers' co-op. say that they will not go forward with the pasteurising of milk if he does not give them a guarantee that nobody else will be allowed to pasteurise milk in the city and that there will be no milk allowed to be sold in the city forthwithother than pasteurised milk. Would it not be a practical proposition to seek a middle course in order to get the milk supply reformed, that is, to forecast that at some future date, when there was ample opportunity to have milk either raised to Grade A or pasteurised, only Grade A milk or pasteurised milk might be sold in the city?
Mr. Walsh
Why should there be any necessity to introduce any prohibition? If the people wish to have pasteurised milk, there is no difficulty in getting it. Some people will go into Cork City and pasteurise the milk.
Deputy Hickey.
Does not the Minister agree——
I have called on Deputy Hickey.
Is the Minister aware that the difficulty is in the cost of pasteurisation plant? I have knowledge of tubercular infection of milk consumed in Cork. Would the Minister, therefore, consider using some of the Marshall Aid with a view to having milk for Cork City pasteurised? We are using a lot of public money trying to prevent tuberculosis.
There is no money problem at all.
Mr. Walsh
If the Deputy thinks there is a demand for milk in Cork City, there is nothing to prevent anyone going into the city to pasteurise it.
That takes us nowhere. A similar reply has been given before, both by the previous Minister——
That is not true.
I will admit that the previous Minister did make every effort to pasteurise the milk.
Is this a speech or a question?
I am asking the Minister to do something positive.