asked the Minister for Agriculture if he will make a statement on the trade agreement recently concluded with the British Government and if he will indicate what sections of the 1938 Agreement have been deleted or revised by the new agreement.
Ceisteanna—Questions. Oral Answers. - Trade Agreement with Britain.
Mr. Walsh
The question of a new trade agreement or the amendment of existing trade agreements does not arise. As indicated in the statement issued by the Tánaiste and myself after the recent discussions with British Ministers, the occasion of these discussions was the decision of the British Government to terminate the bulk buying arrangements for cattle and beef which have operated since the commencement of the war, and to restore free market conditions as from July. This involves a major change in the arrangements under which the trade in cattle and beef has been carried on since the beginning of the war. Since the introduction of bulk buying, prices and quantities have been settled by negotiation at Government level, and producers and exporters have been fully informed about them. In a free market prices will be determined by the market conditions prevailing from time to time. Such a situation was foreseen in the Exchange of Notes of 17th June, 1953, paragraph 1 of which provided that, in the event of any of the products mentioned in the Annex, 1953, being returned to private traders, prior notice would be given to the Government of Ireland, so that the two Governments would consider together the arrangements under which the trade in such products would be continued. The purpose of the discussions which the Tánaiste and I had with Ministers of the British Government was to explore, in pursuance of the provision to which I have referred, how Irish interests could best be protected in the new circumstances.
The expectation is that the British market for cattle and beef will be very good for a considerable time to come and that, after decontrol, market prices for prime cattle will improve and that prices generally will be at higher levels than the minimum prices which the British Government is arranging to guarantee for British producers. This will be a very satisfactory position for Irish exporters. Irish store and fat cattle and carcase beef will obtain these market prices without differential, waiting period or any other restriction.
In the discussions, however, we were looking much further ahead. We had the aim of ensuring safeguards for Irish producers and exporters in circumstances, should they arise, in which market conditions might deteriorate.
Following the discussions, the British Government informed us that they would apply to Irish store cattle fattened in Britain the full individual minimum prices guaranteed to British producers, and also the collective price guarantee, subject in the latter case to a price differential not exceeding 4/6 per cwt. The period during which Irish store cattle must be in Britain before becoming eligible for the guarantee will continue to be two months as at present and the position in this respect will be reviewed in a year's time.
These arrangements will enable Irish cattle to participate, indirectly, in the minimum price scheme devised by the British Government for the benefit of British producers. The price differential I have mentioned will only be fully operative when market prices are 4/6 per cwt. or more below the guaranteed price. If the market price is less than 4/6 per cwt. below the guaranteed price, the differential will not exceed the actual amount by which the market price is below the guaranteed price.
It will, of course, be understood that all these minimum price arrangements will not be operative except in the event, at present considered to be unlikely, that actual market prices may run below the guaranteed minimum prices.
They represent, however, a very valuable long-term assurance to Irish producers and a considerable improvement on the position which prevailed in the free market conditions as they operated before the war. They hold out the prospect of an expanding and profitable trade to the advantage of both countries.
The position in regard to sheep and lambs will be similar. In the case of store sheep in Britain, the collective price guarantee will apply to Irish sheep which have been two months in Britain, with a price differential of ¾d. per lb.
As regards bacon and pork, the present Pigs and Bacon Agreement is expressed to operate until 1956. Appropriate alterations of machinery will be agreed with the British authorities in view of the fact that State purchase of pigs and pork will cease in Britain in the summer of 1954, but the fundamentals of the agreement will be preserved, so that the Irish pig producer should be in the same position in relation to the British pig producer as he has been hitherto.
Thank God, the British market is gone!
Does it now emerge that we have in fact no written agreement with the British Government in respect of the live-stock trade with Great Britain?
Mr. Walsh
There is no question of a written agreement in a free market, as the Deputy knows.
Am I right in believing that the 1948 Trade Agreement is abrogated and that in its place there is no written or signed agreement between the Irish Government and the British Government in respect of live-stock exports to Great Britain, other than the Pigs and Bacon Agreement of 1951?
Mr. Walsh
Surely Deputy Dillon, who was responsible for the making of the 1948 Agreement, knows, or should know, that he was dealing with bulk purchases and buying, that he was selling at Government level to a buyer at Government level. That has ceased. Soon the Ministry of Food will no longer be the purchaser of our cattle, nor will the Irish Government be responsible for the fixation of prices. The price will be governed by the price obtained in the free market in Britain. What the Tánaiste and I were doing in Britain was trying to find out what arrangements could be made so that our farmers could participate in the arrangements the British Government were making for their own producers.
So there is no written agreement now? Is that so?
There is a guarantee instead.
There is or there is not —which of the two is it?
Mr. Walsh
Does the Deputy want me to repeat what I have told him?
Is there an agreement or not—yes or no?
Bring in a blackboard.
Can the Minister at this stage explain the scare stories that appeared in the Irish Press designed to condition the Irish farmer for a fall in the price of cattle and sheep—which he now says is not going to take place—all during the spring, causing farmers to part with their cattle at a much lower price than they could have got later?
Mr. Walsh
I think the Deputy did not quite understand what I said when I answered the question. There is every likelihood of a better market for Irish cattle than there has been hitherto.
There is no written agreement—is that so?
Mr. Walsh
Would the Deputy have a written agreement with the butchers and consumers of Britain?
But there is no agreement?
There is no agreement. We know now where we stand.
Mr. Walsh
In case there might be any misrepresentation when some Deputies leave the House, let me say——
Mr. O'Higgins
They will be coming back, though.
Mr. Walsh
——that there is a price guarantee for Irish cattle. In other words, Irish cattle fasttened in Britain after the two months' period are entitled to the best market price obtainable. If the collective price guarantee is above that price obtained, then they are entitled to the collective guaranteed price.
Will the Minister put a copy of the guarantee in the Library, so that we can read it?
It is as clear as mud.
Mr. Walsh
Perhaps I will be permitted to read the announcement made——
I am not interested in the announcement, but I want to see a copy of the guarantee.
Mr. Walsh
——by the British Ministers in British papers.
Put a copy of the guarantee in the Library.
Mr. Walsh
The announcement reads:
"Further talks on future arrangements for the trade in Irish live stock and meat when meat is decontrolled in July took place in London yesterday. The Minister of Food, Major the Right Hon. Gwilym Lloyd George, M.P., and the Parliamentary Secretary to the Ministry of Agriculture, Mr. G.R. Nugent, M.P., met Mr. Seán F. Lemass, the Deputy Prime Minister and Minister for Industry and Commerce of the Irish Republic and Mr. Thomas Walsh, Minister for Agriculture in the Irish Republic.
Major Lloyd George informed the Irish Ministers that the British Government is willing to make special provision for Irish-bred store stock fattened in this country. Such stock will be eligible for the same individual guarantee as home-bred stock, but any collective guaranteed payment due would be abated by up to 4/6 per cwt. on steers, heifers and special young cows and by up to ¾d. per lb. dressed carcase weight on sheep and lambs. The period during which Irish store cattle must be in the United Kingdom before becoming eligible for the guarantee will continue to be two months as at present and the position in this respect will be reviewed in consultation with the Irish Republican Government in a year's time. A similar period will apply to store sheep.
Any fat cows eligible for the guarantee which were originally imported from the Irish Republic will be eligible for the same guaranteed payments as home-bred cows. This also will be reviewed in a year's time. The Irish trade in pigs and bacon is at present subject to an agreement which does not expire until 1956 and official discussions will continue on the application of the agreement after decontrol."
Maybe that satisfies the Deputy.
Then there is no agreement?
Could the Minister say what is the position with regard to Irish fat cattle? He mentions that cattle must be two months in England before they qualify. What will be the position with regard to fat cattle after 1st June?
Mr. Walsh
Irish fat cattle can go into any market in Britain without let or hindrance and get the highest possible price.
And without any danger of the imposition of the tax advocated by Senator Quirke?
What about that £10 tax that Senator Quirke suggested?