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Dáil Éireann debate -
Thursday, 22 Apr 1954

Vol. 145 No. 6

Committee on Finance. - Adjournment Debate—Sheep Losses.

At Question Time to-day I asked the Minister for Agriculture: —

"If he has now completed inquiries as to the gravity of sheep losses by farmers in West Mayo, Galway, Clare, Donegal and Kerry during the blizzard last February, and, if so, if he will state the number of farmers in each county who suffered (a) total loss of their flocks and (b) partial but serious loss; and, further, if he will indicate whether the Government intend to extend any financial assistance to those who suffered such loss; and, if so, on what terms."

The Minister replied: —

"Reports to my Department covering all areas including the western districts indicate that there were no abnormal sheep losses by farmers last February. The position does not call for any special relief measures by the Government."

As a result of supplementary questions I did succeed in eliciting from the Minister that he had received reports of some losses. He said there was a report of one in Mayo and two in Connemara. I suggest that that information which the Minister supplied at Question Time to-day was not accurate. I presume the Minister has that information from his officials and if so, the only comment I have to make is that the officials did not make their inquiries in a very thorough manner. I will quote in a moment from a report in a newspaper which circulates very widely in County Mayo and parts of Galway. This report shows there were very serious losses.

This question of losses to sheep farmers, particularly in the hilly districts, is one that occurs with almost unfailing regularity every seven or eight years, certainly every ten years at the outside. While some farmers, because of the location of their mountain holdings, have suffered only partial losses the sheep flocks of others are being constantly wiped out. When there is an abnormally heavy snowfall and when the drifts pile up higher than usual farmers lose their cattle as well.

The Minister seems to take all this very lightly, but I suggest to him that in these particular areas this is a serious cause of the flight from the land. Scarcely any winter passes by that there is not some losses to sheep flocks there. If we expect these farmers to continue farming in these areas I hold that some small fund should be established to come to their rescue and give them a chance to restock their land without going through the painful process of trying to build up a fresh stock from lambs over a period of seven or eight years. It often happens that when they have brought them to the pitch of perfection a snowstorm occurs to set them back again for another seven or eight years.

I would like to quote an extract from the Mayo News of 20th February last in which there is a report of a personal explanation given by one of the farmers so affected. This farmer says: —

"I worked on farms in England and earned good money at piecework. I was not afraid to come back here and work when my father died and build up a good flock of sheep. I was making a good go of it and now this!"——

The report goes on to say: —

"— and he pointed to a putrefying carcase of an ewe and showed me how the carrion had plucked the unborn lamb.... `If the Government does not do something to help us to replace our stock, then I say to hell with all the sheep that were ever born. I will rear them no more'."

Further on the report states: —

"Better than replacing our stocks would be to get us out of this area to good land where we can make a living. What we have as land here is suitable only for the growing of trees. This is no suitable place for a man with a young family. Have you not seen the school — and the road to the school?"

If the Minister would go to the trouble of looking up reports of 20th February last he would find an appalling state of affairs. I myself can furnish to the Minister at least 40 names of people who suffered losses to their flocks ranging up to 300 sheep.

That is what I asked for to-day.

I will give them. I do not want to prolong this debate. I merely want to draw the Minister's attention to the losses, and to request that some fund be established.

Mr. Walsh

There are loans available.

A Minister in this or any other Government cannot stop snow from falling or snow from drifting; neither can the flock owners when the weather becomes hard stop the sheep from sheltering in the places where the drifts pile highest, thus encompassing their own destruction. If a special fund were set aside I can assure the Minister it would not be called on every year from my own experience. I do not think it would be called on more often than every seven, eight or ten years. Apart from that all the farmers in the area would not call on it.

It is appalling to think that when the snowdrifts melted and the carcases were uncovered all the farmers could save from the wreck were the skins. I have seen lorries of skins leaving this area. Take this particular young man who went over to England, worked very hard there, came home on the death of his father and used his money to establish himself with stock and build a new house——

Mr. Walsh

What was the name?

I have not the man's permission to use it.

Mr. Walsh

Give it to me privately.

I do not like bandying a person's name about without permission, but I will give the Minister the name privately. I will also give the names of 40 others who have complained in this connection. One man saved only seven or ten sheep out of over 100; another man saved 27 out of 118 ewes. The Minister a while ago was interrupting Deputy Dillon during the course of his speech and deploring the flight of so many people from the land during the inter-Party Government term of office. That is going on all the time and taking up an attitude like that is not very helpful.

Mr. Walsh

You are going to reply to my interruptions now. I thought you were talking about sheep, not about interruptions.

Yes, but I am trying to bring the seriousness of the situation home to the Minister. Here is a man who with several of his neighbours is threatening to leave the country. He cannot continue with the only visible means of income wiped out by something for which neither he nor anybody else is responsible. It is the duty of the Government to come to the rescue of those people. Supposing a factory in a particular area met with a set-back through no fault of its own. The Government would not stand by and see it closed down. We voted £5,000,000 to the National Development Fund a short time ago so that the Government could make sidewalks along river banks for people to stroll on. We should take a small sum, say, £40,000 or £50,000 from that National Development Fund and allow the interest to accumulate until a call would be made on it, and then use the accumulated interest and some of the principal, perhaps, to help those people restock their farms.

That would be a more useful work than putting concrete walks along river banks so that people can stroll along them and other nonsensical projects of that nature which will not bring in any return to anybody and for which nobody will thank the Government. Such projects are a waste of money.

When I raised this matter on a prior occasion the Minister told me he had not completed his inquiries. I suggested then that a small sum of money should be set aside for the particular purpose I have in mind. The region from Malin Head to Cape Clear suffers in this way every seven, ten or 12 years. There was a blizzard in 1947, in 1939, in 1931 or 1930 and in 1917. That is something no one can help, but it is not at the same time the function of the Minister to stand idly by. He should help these people to restock their lands.

Mr. Walsh

Would the Deputy tell me where he saw the lorry-load of skins?

In Louisburgh. It was quite a problem for the local people to dispose of these carcases. I have seen a little of what happened, but I did not see quite as much as is reported here though I have not the slightest doubt as to the truth of what is reported. Some funds should be set aside to meet such a contingency as this. The Minister has plenty of inspectors at his disposal to inquire into the claims and to ensure that no false claims will be made. The Minister may say that the number who suffered is small. Possibly, taking the total number of farmers into account, it is small but if the number is only 40 or 50 then the task of assisting them is made all the easier. Steps were taken to meet the situation that arose in 1947. There is no reason why similar steps should not be taken now. We cannot allow the father of a family of six children to fly from the land and have one more shuttered up house to add to the thousands already scattered throughout these areas. That is one of the reasons why I am raising this matter to-night.

It is a serious matter. I suggest the Minister should take steps to remedy the situation and should treat the matter as one of urgency in relation to the small number affected.

I would like to add my voice to that of Deputy Blowick. I appeal to the Minister to establish a fund to help sheep farmers in mountainous districts to replace stock, particularly breeding stock which they may lose during exceptional blizzard years. The mountain farmer is the farmer who gets least from the Department of Agriculture. Fertilisers are not provided for him because there is no necessity for them. Fencing is not provided for him. Stabling is not provided for him. Water is not laid on in his mountain farm. God knows, he has too much of it. He is the one farmer who calls least on the Department of Agriculture and this is one way in which the Department could help him out now.

I was amazed to hear the Minister suggest that Deputies should supply to the Minister and to his Department the names of farmers who have suffered loss. The Minister has his inspectors. He has his agents in every parish in the country and it is the duty of these people to keep the Minister supplied with up-to-date information as to what is happening to the live stock in the country.

In Donegal this year there were heavy losses, but the losses do not end there. Since the blizzard, because of the poor condition of the ewe she is unable to feed her lambs and there has been, as a result of that, a big loss in the lamb population this year. It is difficult for the mountain farmer to replace his breeding stock. At one time there was a scheme whereby the black-faced ewe farmers were able to restock their breeding ewes from Scotland. That system is no longer in existence and they have no other method now other than to procure their ewes from their neighbours. In a bad year neighbours are also short of breeding stock with the result that year after year stocks of breeding sheep are going down. In Glencolumcille, Croagh and the hills around Dungloe we had very substantial mountain sheep farmers, men who made a considerable amount of money during the war and post-war years when the price of wool was high. Their losses in stock over the past few years have been considerable.

I appeal to the Minister to accept Deputy Blowick's suggestion and establish some kind of financial aid for these farmers. I make one other appeal. The Department supplies, on certain terms, black-faced rams to mountain farmers. It would be a great help to them if, in addition, black-faced ewes were supplied on similar terms.

Mr. Walsh

In March last, Deputy Blowick raised this question in relation to Mayo and the losses sustained by the farmers there. I heard nothing about Donegal until to-night. We carried out investigations in Mayo and all over the western seaboard. As Deputy O'Donnell has pointed out, we have supervisors. We have 60 parish agents. We have the officials of the agricultural committees. They have submitted their reports to us. I do not know where Deputy Blowick saw his lorry load of skins because the officials of the Department, the parish agents and the officials of the agricultural committees report no such losses. On the contrary, they say there were very few losses. I think the best evidence of that is that we had three letters in the Department from people who lost sheep this year, one from the County Mayo and two from Connemara. They gave the number of sheep they had lost, but on investigation it was proved that the statement made in their letters was not true. If there were these losses, the colossal losses that we have heard about to-night, there was nothing to prevent me from giving loans for the replacement of the stock. As a matter of fact, the machinery is there already to enable people to borrow money from the Department of Agriculture for the replacement of stock, cattle or sheep.

I tried it in five cases and I could not get one successful grant.

Mr. Walsh

If you had two solvent sureties——

Ah, solvent sureties!

Mr. Walsh

Do you want to get money for nothing? Why not come out straight and tell us what you want? Is it that every farmer in the country should be compensated for his losses?

We are not asking for that, and you should not twist it that way.

Mr. Walsh

Who compensates them for losses from parasitic diseases, for losses through fluke, losses through snowdrifts and all the rest of it? I am placing money at the disposal of these people, where necessary. Is that what the Deputies are looking for? If so, there was no need to raise this question at all. The money is there for people if they are able to establish that they want it.

Indeed it is not.

Mr. Walsh

It is, and it was done in 1947 when we had those huge losses that we all remember all over the country. At that time, free of interest loans were given to people and they were repaid. If people, again, need loans, and if, on the evidence that may be submitted to us, we believe that the people are entitled to loans, all they have to do is to come along with their solvent sureties and we will give the money to them.

Why not give it to them free of interest?

Mr. Walsh

It might possibly happen in cases that we would give it free of interest. It was done before in 1947, but surely we are not going to set up such an arrangement for three people. I have the evidence of the officers of my Department. I know, of course, the spirit in which this has been raised, but let me say again once and for all that if it can be established that you have had these losses in the West of Ireland, the South-West and the North of Ireland, we are always prepared to make arrangements to advance money to people to replace their stock. Therefore, there was no need to raise this question in the House to-day.

Mr. Walsh

There is no red tape. If I am put here as the custodian of the people's money, I am going to see that it will be repaid. There is no red tape about that. All I want is a guarantee that it will be repaid.

Are you suggesting that these people are rogues?

Mr. Walsh

I am not saying any such thing. The Deputy is not going to get away with that. All that a person needs is to have solvent sureties and there will be no difficulty in getting the money.

Why not accept the security of a man's farm?

Mr. Walsh

Will the Deputy take any person at his face value and hand him a £10 note?

I would be prepared to take a man's farm as security.

Mr. Walsh

There is ample provision for the replacement of stock if you wish to avail of it. If Deputy Blowick needs a further investigation to be carried out, I want the names of the people that he talks about.

I mentioned the names of townlands to-day.

Mr. Walsh

I have here the reports of my officers which cover the Louisburgh and Drummin areas. They say that there were some losses in mountain flocks in these areas caused by the heavy snow, and that the losses amongst lambs were few. As I have said, we got one letter from the County Mayo and two from Connemara.

What about the position in the County Galway?

Mr. Walsh

The reports which I have here from eight supervisory officers dealing with the area from West Cork to Donegal indicate that there were no unusual losses, and they are unanimous in saying that the Press reports were exaggerated.

You had only three reports.

Mr. Walsh

These are reports from responsible officers in my Department. If Deputy Blowick or Deputy O'Donnell can establish by evidence that there are people who have suffered severe losses, I am prepared to consider this question of making loans available for them.

Your point is that your representatives there make a report to you.

Mr. Walsh

I have had these reports, but it is quite usual for people in the country to write to my Department as well. We have had three letters from people who suffered losses and these cases have been investigated, one from Mayo and two from Connemara.

The Dáil adjourned at 11 p.m. until 10.30 a.m. on Friday, 23rd April, 1954.

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