I was coming to that, a Leas-Cheann Comhairle. I was about to ask the Minister to see that not alone is it a case for Justice but that justice will be done and that the inspectors' reports in the matter would be investigated by the Department of Justice and that the Minister for Industry and Commerce would play an active part in a matter which affects every housewife and every working man and his family.
The Minister drew attention to the over-all increase in the general turnover in manufactured articles and, which was very welcome news, the resultant increase in employment. While this is heartening information, we cannot be complacent about the position when we know that, even with this increase in output and the noticeable increase in employment in industry and transport, the over-all problem is still far from being solved. I would emphasise the necessity for co-ordination and co-operation between the Minister's Department, which is primarily responsible for industry and commerce, and the Department of Agriculture and the Department of Lands in an effort to solve the problems of industry and commerce.
I say that, because I know that the Minister is aware that not alone is that the view of every member of this Party, but that it is the view of the members of all the Parties in this House who come from areas outside Dublin. They know that at the present time it is Dublin everything, even Dublin for flooding, and it is flooding the country, unfortunately, with a greater measure of unemployment and a greater measure of emigration than ever before. Too long and too often has it been the case here of members pressing unsuccessfully for the decentralisation of industry. I believe the time has come now when it must be tackled. It is poor satisfaction to the members of this House who leave here on a Friday to see as they go down the country that industrial projects are arising month by month and year by year and spreading just outside the city suburbs all the time.
I, or any other member from a rural area like me, must not begrudge Dublin as the capital of this small country of ours the prosperity it enjoys, but I am afraid it is enjoying too much prosperity at the expense of the country. I am afraid that if we are really interested in the industrial development of the country we should not continue to keep building up our industries in Dublin. Our method for some time past has been somewhat on the same lines as that in Britain, which built up an industrial empire, forgetting about the rest of the country. The only difference, of course, is that where Britain could fall back on what she called her Commonwealth, to feed her people, we have no such storehouse on which to draw. This matter of our industries must be tackled properly and soon.
I am not just pleading with the Minister. I am asking him to realise that it is time something concrete was done about the entire country where industries are concerned. It is about time that would-be industrialists were told that while they may be anxious to be near the hub of all industrial activities in the country, there cannot be much more room for them in Dublin, whereas we have 25 counties clamouring for industries—25 counties in which there are much more suitable places for industries than around Dublin. Some of these industrialists may say that if they made such a move away from Dublin the over-all economic results would not be to their advantage, but I would refer them to a part of the Minister's statement when he dealt with the Undeveloped Areas Bill. Certain provisions were made in that measure and surely these provisions should act as an incentive to any industrialist who may be anxious to establish himself in this country to go outside Dublin.
The Minister's statement pointed out quite clearly the financial advantages to be gained under the Undeveloped Areas Bill by industrialists building and operating in the country areas. I am not blaming the Minister or his predecessor for the situation that has arisen in regard to industries. I quite understand that an industry could start overnight in any part of the country and I realise that of necessity the Department officials must be careful in their examination of any proposals that may come within the ambit of this important measure. It is a couple of years now since that measure became law and if we are to take notice of the figures as presented by the Minister, the picture in that regard is not what we would hope for. If the Minister holds the same views as he did when he was leader of our Party here when in Opposition, he will be satisfied that the tragedy of that Bill was that provision was not made whereby there would be a much larger measure of decentralisation of industry.
I think a situation should be brought about whereby some semi-State body such as Bord na Móna or the E.S.B. would set up industries throughout the country. There are great prospects in this country for such industrial activities which might be outside the scope of ordinary industrialists themselves. Those people might not be so anxious to undertake the risk of going into some new line of activity or embarking on some new industrial channel not hitherto opened up. It is in such a sphere that the semi-State body would assert itself.
We know that in other countries, notably Sweden, advantage is taken of the by-products of the particular country-such as kelp and seaweed. We have been told that advantage is being taken of such natural resources here, but I believe that the use we are making of them is negligible. The position is that we are afraid to take chances in this country. We should not be afraid to take chances when the livelihood of 70,000 unemployed people would depend to such a large extent on our making use of such chances. We should consider also the advantages that would accrue to the State through the development of these resources and through the activities of our people in their utilisation. There are brains in the country which could be brought into action whether they are those of scientists or not. It would be greatly to the advantage of the country if we were to take up a bold enough policy to utilise our resources and to build up industries, utilising the ability of our people. We would be helping to keep that ability at home rather than sending it to foreign countries.
Again, the Minister made mention of the visits of the I.D.A. abroad. It is undoubtedly most beneficial to this country that these people would go abroad. It is most satisfying for us as a nation to see these I.D.A. people going overseas and seeing for themselves the conditions that prevail and the industrial pursuits in other countries. But the benefits of the visits of these people will be lost to us unless they have some field of operations into which they can put the benefits of their newly acquired knowledge.
All this is related directly to our unemployment problem. Again, I would say to the Minister that the problems of unemployment and emigration will not, I am convinced, be remedied by simply providing industry in Dublin. We know that in regard to many industries that may be set up in this State we may be handicapped because of the lack of raw material. Why, therefore, is it not possible to concentrate, in rural Ireland, some small industries? Let us forget the gigantic factory that in any short space of time can supply the whole needs of our country. Instead of speaking solely of the huge factory that can meet our local home demands and go into the market for export, which is an advantage in itself, let us realise that such small industries, rural activities, will help to ease the problem in rural Ireland and ultimately be of advantage to Dublin.
In regard to various parts of this country, I fail to see why we cannot take advantage of small canning industries. Fruit of various descriptions cannot be bought by the people here in Dublin or in Cork except at an exorbitant price, and, at the same time, at various seasons of the year fruit is going to waste in many parts of rural Ireland because we are too slow to take advantage of the possibilities of utilising what may be of advantage to the people as a whole.
I should like very briefly to mention in that respect also that I believe in the advantages of the Undeveloped Areas Bill, and I would refer to a problem that is crying out for attention in Cork. Now I am not speaking simply for the constituency I have the honour of representing, but of neighbouring areas. I know I cannot go into the matter in detail except with regard to having the Ministers concerned examine it in consultation. The problem I have in mind is that of flax growing and if that problem is solved there is the possibility not alone of a return to the people growing it but also of keeping young people in that area from emigrating.
The Minister has, I believe, in his statement made it quite clear that one side of the rural picture is being helped greatly by the export of whiskey to America. Whether in one form or another, we realise that even the individual companies set up will give great possibilities for employment. Not alone that, but by the co-ordination of the efforts of industry, commerce and agriculture, rural Ireland can ultimately benefit through the crop of barley. That is why I believe it is vitally important for us to remember that we cannot afford to have the activities of industry and commerce divorced completely from agriculture and from lands when we are dealing with this problem of industrial prosperity in rural Ireland.
In relation to rural electrification, of which mention was made here the other day in the course of a question by Deputy Lemass and the answer by the Minister, I suppose that we will all have to admit that one of the great benefits conferred on this country was the provision of electric current through the Shannon scheme in the late 'twenties and the 1930 period. We equally realise the importance of the benefits conferred on the community in rural Ireland due to the rural electrification system. From the point of view of the over-all picture it is helpful to the people and satisfactory even to people coming to this country on holidays to see the great changes that have taken place in Ireland. We may be divided here at times, we may have different views, but it is satisfactory to all of us, whatever Party we belong to, when outsiders will admit that the activities of all Parties in the last 25 or 30 years have been such as to help towards this great improvement.
Nevertheless, I am not satisfied on the over-all aspect of this question of rural electrification because, in spite of the benefits that it can bestow on the people in rural areas, it may be necessary for the Minister, as he mentioned in answer to this question yesterday, in the course of considering the over-all problem of E.S.B. charges, to take into full consideration the fantastically high charges that are made, not alone in the case of rural electrification but so far as the E.S.B. as a whole is concerned.
If the Minister will take into consideration again the necessity of the co-ordination of effort between his Department and the Department of Local Government, he will find that local authorities in every part of this country are actually being fleeced by the severely high charges imposed upon them and imposed upon the ratepayers through the exorbitant prices charged by the E.S.B. for public lighting. As the Minister mentioned here, the E.S.B. are a non-profit making concern and it seems quite obvious from his statement yesterday that the financial returns of the last five or six years have been such that there is no necessity to continue giving them certain financial advantages. While it may be a non-profit making concern, the question of necessity arises in view of the exorbitant charges that are being imposed upon the consumer. I believe that when rural electrification is completed there will be no justification for the continuation of those charges. Why should they, therefore, in respect of a long-term policy, which they are, of course, entitled to pursue, impose upon the present generation the severe burden which is fleecing them now? I believe it will be urgently necessary for the Minister, in any dealings he may have in this matter, in any preparation of legislation he may consider necessary to bring in in the future, to take into consideration this important problem.
The Minister also mentioned C.I.E. in his statement. I have no intention of discussing it except to say that it is satisfactory to see that the over-all picture is undoubtedly what we may call a bright one for C.I.E. as a going concern. For many years each Government was confronted with the problem of the ghost train. Thanks be to God that time seems to have gone. I hope that as year after year goes by, the position of C.I.E. will improve. But now that it is improving I would like to say to the Minister—perhaps it might be considered as one of the day-to-day activities of the C.I.E. Board, as we are sometimes told—that it is about time that as the railways are helping to pay for themselves some relief should be given to the unfortunate people who are being saddled with the burden, those people who have to use the buses and pay the bus fares which were raised to such a high level to keep the railways going. We will go no further than that.
Deputy Lemass mentioned the position of the Cork airport. Perhaps it was because I come from Cork that I was very disappointed that no mention was made in the Minister's speech about this problem of Cork airport. I do not mind the approach of Deputy Lemass in that matter. He recalled that a couple of years ago it was mentioned in the newspapers that £1,000,000 was provided. I am not interested in past history or anything like it, but I do say that we in Cork are entitled to say: "It is poor consolation for us to hear in this House of the growing prosperity of Shannon airport, and the increasing returns from it, while at the same time Cork is considered as a small provincial town." I would earnestly ask the Minister to do something about this matter in the near future, so that our hopes may be realised of seeing Cork placed in the position to which it is entitled, and that is, the capital of Munster.
There is one part of the Minister's speech that I must take exception to, and that is—we have the advantage at least under this Government of speaking very openly and frankly on matters as we see them—the part where he mentioned the possibility of a transatlantic passenger service from Cork Harbour. It is a common occurrence to see liners of different companies in that harbour on any day of the week, notably on Sundays. We know the extraordinary price that would have to be paid for the construction of transatlantic liners in order to carry out this service. I cannot imagine Irish or Irish-Americans waiting for a couple of weeks at New York or Boston for an Irish liner, when they have at their disposal liners of various companies. I believe if we are to spend money on a passenger service, it should be spent on a service between here and England. Undoubtedly, credit is due to the Minister for the way he has approached this problem of the airport about which we heard so much.
Complaints have been voiced about the facilities at Dún Laoghaire. The tragedy is that thousands of people, many of whom are Irishmen and women, are treated in an inhuman way. It is therefore important that we should realise the importance of providing these facilities ourselves, instead of depending on an outside source which gives little consideration to the people of this country who are entitled to such facilities.
The Minister also mentioned problems in connection with An Tóstal. From reports which have been recently published, it would seem that the people who stand to gain most are the business people in Dublin. Let us face this problem realistically. These people in Dublin are putting the money in their banking accounts and having a laugh at the fools who provided it. Those who are gaining most from An Tóstal are not prepared to lend their weight to make it a success. Let them decide the best way to run their Tóstal, because the people in rural Ireland can run theirs in their own way.
I have to deal with one item which I cannot refrain from mentioning. We are, as it were, inclined to be local in our views. What is going to happen as regards this refinery? The Minister has been most truthful and helpful in his approach to this problem, in spite of the remarks of Deputy Lemass. I could express many views on the subject, but I believe that Cork has the advantages for its location. There is no part of the country which has such natural advantages from a shipping point of view. The shipping industry there is undoubtedly in a deplorable condition. We understand how hard it is even to keep it going in repair work. With Cork's natural advantages, we hope we may be lucky to secure this important project.
I was sorry when I read in the Press certain questions which Deputy Lemass asked in the House in respect of this. I was glad to hear the Minister for Industry and Commerce say in his speech yesterday that his predecessor was as interested as anyone as regards the introduction of this industry to this country. While publicity was given to the fact that this was supposed to be done in 1951, Deputy Lemass questioned the Minister severely in this House as to why he did not impose various restrictions on these companies, which, in themselves, would be a hindrance rather than a help towards securing this industry. Please God, the coming year will see the development of this industry, and that the standard of its products will be equal to anything which have been previously imported. I hope that industrialists and manufacturers will come to understand that, while they have a place in this community, they have a Christian obligation not to make exorbitant profits. This will not be tolerated by members of the Labour Party.
