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Dáil Éireann debate -
Tuesday, 10 May 1955

Vol. 150 No. 8

Committee on Finance. - Adjournment Debate—Donegal Water Supply Schemes.

On Wednesday of last week I had three questions down for reply by the Minister for Local Government: the first one asked the Minister if he will make available a grant from the National Development Fund towards the cost of providing a public water supply for the Fanad peninsula, County Donegal; the second one asked if the Minister will make available a grant towards the cost of providing a regional water supply for the Fanad Gaeltacht, County Donegal; and the third asked the Minister what is the present position in regard to the Rossnakill - Tamney water supply scheme. The Parliamentary Secretary, Deputy Davin, deputising for the Minister, made the following reply:—

"With your permission, a Cheann Comhairle, it is proposed to take Questions Nos. 45, 46 and 47 together. Proposals for a water supply scheme for Rossnakill and Tamney were submitted by Donegal County Council in 1940 and resubmitted in 1947 but, because of the inadequacy of the source, were not approved. Subsequently a number of other possible sources were investigated and the county engineer's report was considered by the county council last December. A copy of this report was not received in the Department until yesterday, but an inquiry was received from the county council on the 20th January as to the amount of State assistance which would be made available for a regional scheme for North Fanad. Such a scheme would also serve Rossnakill. The maximum rate of subsidy by way of contribution to loan charges in respect of Gaeltacht water supply schemes is 43? per cent., but consideration is at present being given to the representations made by the county council that Gaeltacht water supply schemes should be subsidised at a higher rate, whether from the National Development Fund or otherwise."

I then asked the following supplementary question:—

"Am I to take it that, until the Local Government Department, arising from these questions, got in touch with the local authority in Donegal, no report whatever was received from these people in regard to this matter, although decisions were arrived at last December by the Donegal County Council?"

To that supplementary question, Deputy Davin made the following reply:—

"When the Deputy reads carefully he will see that the Department could do nothing more at the moment."

I then asked further supplementary questions and I should like to say now first of all, without accusing the Minister of anything, that the question of a water supply for the Rossnakill-Tamney area was brought to the notice of the Department somewhere around 1940, but due to difficulties, technical and otherwise, and due to the situation created by the war and, at a later stage, to scarcity of supplies, nothing could be done. In 1947 the scheme was again brought to the notice of the Department but the source at first available had been found during the intervening years to be not quite suitable or adequate for the needs of this particular district.

In addition to that, I should like to say that in 1948 a five-year programme of work was brought into being by the local authority. In Donegal during the war, when most of the work could not be done, the staff were confined to post-war planning. The Rossnakill water supply scheme was within that five-year programme but was very well down the list of priority. The result is that during the past year we have just reached this scheme on the 1948 list. It was proposed in June and July of last year that a full investigation should immediately be carried out and that all available information should be put before the county council at the earliest possible date with a view to going ahead with the scheme as originally intended.

It was found after some considerable time that the trouble that had first made itself felt in 1947—the inadequacy of the supply from the original source—had again to be faced. As a result of further exploration by our water engineer, we found what he described to me last August as the ideal source, not only from the point of view of quantity but also of quality and from the point of view of gravity as far as any part of the parish was concerned.

Immediately I heard of this I felt that here was a peninsula which had no public water supply other than spring wells and pumps, some of which had been erected by the county council. Having asked the engineer to bring before the council at the earliest possible moment his report on this new source and on all other sources available at the county council meeting in December. 1954, I proposed two resolutions which were carried to the effect that, in view of the fact that this new source at a place known as Tullyconnell Lake, and quite a bit removed from the Rossnakill area and in the heart of the Fanad Peninsula, could supply a sufficiency of water not only for the one area but for the whole parish, something more than the mere supply of water to the Rossnakill-Tamney area should be undertaken.

Also, in view of the fact that from our engineer's reports we were able to gather that the cost per house, no matter from what source the supply was taken, was going to be rather high, comparatively speaking, I felt we might, with benefit to the council from the financial viewpoint, make up part of the capital outlay by developing the source in Tullyconnell Lake. On a resolution passed unanimously it was decided to ask the Department which was handling the National Development Fund for a grant from the fund for a supply that would serve the peninsula. It was also decided by the council that as part of the peninsula is in the Fior-Ghaeltacht we should seek from whatever Minister was responsible a grant for a Gaeltacht scheme for part of the parish.

All this would have meant that the Rossnakill-Tamney scheme originally contemplated woud eventually evolve as part of a much greater scheme. In such an eventuality the local authority would not be saddled with the capital development of a very large lake. It was also noted that the cost per house for the water would be much lower. These areas have been on our list and must be given water supplies if we are to keep faith with our people and to show any consistency in our planning.

That proposal, as far as I know, took the form of a letter of inquiry to one of the Departments. That letter was sent on the 19th January last and, as far as I can find out, in spite of the fact that the inquiry was a bona fide inquiry asked by council officials on behalf of the local authority, no reply was received, according to the officials, until the 5th of this month. It is on that point that I must show my disapproval and that I must question the accuracy of the reply I was given by the Parliamentary Secretary.

One would be led to believe, from the original reply to my questions given by Deputy Davin here, that nothing whatever had been done about this business except that in 1940 somebody, from somewhere out of the blue, threw it into the Department and said: "We want a water scheme for this district," and then as suddenly as the proposal was made just as suddenly and completely did it disappear until, in 1947, it re-emerged and was again thrown into the Department only to find that due to technical difficulties it could not be done, and that from 1947 until last week, when I had these questions down, the Donegal County Council or no other council and no other person had, in fact, made any effort whatever to do anything about it.

It was for that reason, that I knew that that was not so and that possibly Deputy Davin was not in a position to know whether it was so or not, not being a member of the Donegal County Council, that I asked some supplementary questions in an endeavour to have the matter cleared up. I asked him if it were a fact that until I had put down the questions and his Department had communicated with the Donegal County Council nothing was done about this scheme since 1940. It was because of that and for no other reason that I put those supplementary questions to Deputy Davin. Apparently, as he said himself, he suspected I wanted to take this on the Adjournment.

But I was right.

He did not take it on the Adjournment.

I did not want to take it. I have already heard last Thursday somebody who was sitting in exactly the same seat as the Deputy and occupying the very same position, that of Parliamentary Secretary, making the jibe that I should have been here for the Adjournment last Wednesday and that I did not turn up. There was a reflection cast on me in this respect as if it was to my discredit that I was not present. It was due to a complete misunderstanding on my part because I did not know I was supposed to be here on Wednesday night. I have already explained that to the Ceann Comhairle and now I just want to make it clear to Deputy Davin that that was what happened and nothing else. At no time did I want to bring this matter up on the Adjournment and I would not have done so had I got straight information when I asked for it.

I took the Minister to task for indicating or, by insinuation or by innuendo, implying, that nothing whatever was heard from the Donegal County Council between 1947 and last week when these questions were tabled. I would like to know why the communication directed to the Department on the 19th January, at the behest of the Donegal County Council, was ignored? Why was nothing done about it until the 5th of this present month—and mark that the 5th of this month was the day after I raised this matter in the House. It is rather significant, it might be coincidence, but as Deputy Davin did with me on that occasion when I asked the question, I will leave it to him to decide whether it is coincidence or not.

I want the Minister for Local Government to realise that so far as the Donegal County Council are concerned they are committed to this scheme for Rossnakill-Tamney. The next scheme we should undertake is this scheme. Because of the high cost per house which it now transpires this scheme is going to cost, because of the difficulty in getting a suitable source of supply, we want to see whether or not we can utilise the development work we are going to carry out to fuller and better advantage than serving this area only.

If we could get any firm indication that in the near future we could get money from the National Development Fund or under the Gaeltacht water supply scheme for a complete supply for all of the Fanad peninsula, then we as a council, speaking as one member, and knowing the fair-minded manner in which these things are approached, would go ahead with the Rossnakill scheme, develop it at its source and at the outlets, putting in suitable pipes at the beginning to carry a supply not only for Rossnakill-Tamney but for the whole peninsula. We would thereby save money for the taxpayer or the ratepayer as the case might be. If we are ever going to give a water supply to all of the peninsula, money could be saved now by putting in bigger pipes than are needed for Rossnakill-Tamney which would serve in the future the entire needs of this Gaeltacht area and this peninsula of Fanad.

I would like the Minister to look at this in the light that we are not putting him up against a wall and saying: "We want money immediately to do a regional scheme," or "We want money immediately for a Gaeltacht scheme." We approached this on a broad basis and from the long-term point of view we realised that if we wanted to do the best for the greatest number of people in this locality and give them something that is really a God-sent gift to rural Ireland, that is, a piped water supply, we would be doing a much better job planning, on a long-term basis, for extension at a later date, thereby saving money and, at the same time, giving better service to the people and giving them a better return for the money spent whether from the taxpayer or from the ratepayer. It is on that basis I would like the Minister to deal with this matter and to see whether or not at this stage he can make any helpful suggestion to the Donegal County Council as to which way they should proceed in the next few weeks or the next few months.

I accept unreservedly Deputy Blaney's explanation as to why he did not appear here on the last night. I am just sorry that it has to be attributed to an official of this House that he did not turn up here.

From my reading of the report of Deputy Blaney's supplementary question, which I will read out, I come to certain conclusions. The supplementary question was:—

"Am I to take it that until the Local Government Department, arising from these questions, got in touch with the local authority in Donegal, no report whatever was received from these people in regard to this matter, although decisions were arrived at last December by the Donegal County Council?"

I draw two conclusions from that— first of all, that Deputy Blaney wishes to seek the credit for spurring the Donegal County Council on in submitting this report—the engineer's report —to me. Secondly, I take it from that supplementary that decisions were taken by Donegal County Council. Let me say now that I publicly charge Deputy Blaney with obstructing that scheme. I give him a reason for it. The Deputy has rightly and fairly given the history of this scheme.

The scheme was first mooted away back in 1940, I understand, though I speak subject to correction as to the year. It was resubmitted in 1947. On both those occasions it was pointed out to the local authority that the source of this supply was inadequate and the matter dropped. The Deputy has rightly and correctly pointed out that in the year 1948—after the inter-Party Government came into power—the scheme was resubmitted with a number of other schemes totalling £750,000 from County Donegal for a grant under the National Development Fund.

Am I misunderstanding the Minister—he is stating that there were grants sought from the National Development Fund in 1948? Am I right in assuming that the Minister is telling the House that grants to the tune of £750,000 were sought from the National Development Fund in 1948?

Yes, schemes were submitted. I would not wish to mislead Deputy Blaney. The schemes submitted totalled £750,000.

From the National Development Fund the money was to come?

The schemes were submitted by the council for water schemes in the county, totalling £750,000.

You mentioned the National Development Fund.

If I did, I withdraw. This particular scheme referred to by the Deputy was only reached by the council in 1954, as he correctly stated.

I would not say it was reached then, but it was the next.

It was the next and it was reached in 1954. My predecessor, the present Deputy Smith, fixed the rate of the subsidy on loan charges at 43? per cent. for Gaeltacht areas. That was well known to Deputy Blaney. When this matter came before the council on the 14th December last, the engineer's report was submitted for what I may describe as this regional scheme. The Deputy knew as well as I do that the amount which would be contributed by the State, the maximum rate of subsidy by way of contribution to loan charges in respect of Gaeltacht water supplies, would be 43? per cent. Despite the fact that the Deputy knew that, he purposely, in my opinion, misled the council when he informed them on that occasion that the contribution was a 100 per cent. grant in the Gaeltacht areas for schemes such as this.

As a result of what the Deputy said, the council took no decision. They postponed consideration of the engineer's report until such time as they would communicate with me and find out the amount of the subsidy on the loan charges which our Department would be prepared to put up on an occasion such as this. We received, some time in the month of January, such a query from the council but we had not before us the engineer's report and we could give no decision or advice on that query until we received the report.

I am satisfied that the council would have taken a decision on the 14th December to proceed with this water scheme; they would have submitted the engineer's report to me, were it not for the fact that Deputy Blaney purposely misled them by stating they could get a 100 per cent. grant.

Might I make a little correction? While I can excuse the Minister personally for going in that direction I would point out, in fairness, that the engineer's report, the full report, was not available in December; and again at the meeting two months later, after I queried whether we had any reply to the inquiries earlier, I was told there was none. We since have been awaiting the reply to those inquiries and our engineer's report was not completed.

A sufficient report was then available to submit to me and it was not submitted. I awaited receipt of that report. I heard nothing further about it until the 3rd April last, when I was approached by the Deputy's neighbour, Councilor Kelly, from the Fanad peninsula, who approached me and asked me what was the position. When I informed him of the position I understand that he immediately took the matter up with the county council and asked them to forward the report to me. That report was received two days prior to the Parliamentary Secretary replying to these questions. My Department has not had an opportunity yet to consider it, but when we do I can assure you there will be no delay in replying to the council.

Let me assure the Deputy that I have the scheme as much at heart as he has, despite the fact that I represent West Donegal. The Deputy many times has described me as the Minister for West Donegal.

Quite so.

I have the scheme as much at heart as the Deputy has. I can assure him that, were it not for the fact that he obstructed that scheme in December, some progress might have been made.

Would the Minister allow me——

I was most patient and did not interrupt the Deputy in any way when he was addressing the House.

You are not getting away with all that.

I know I will not. The Deputy will reply when I am not present to answer. He will tell the Donegal County Council about it when I am not present, but if there is anything he wishes to say he can say it here.

The Minister is not speaking last on this.

I am not a candidate for the county council and the Deputy is entitled to make as much propaganda as he wishes.

He will.

He can do it at local election meetings. I have nothing to do with that.

On a point of order, what I want to get clear is this. We have the Minister's statement in regard to a date on which he talked to a man now mentioned in this debate which was not two or three days prior to the reply here. He actually told me of the discussion with Councillor Kelly before the 3rd. Yet he comes to the House and says he was talking to him on the 3rd.

Did the Deputy get the date?

It certainly was not the 3rd.

I gave the Deputy the date—the 3rd April, 1955. The Deputy would never have mentioned this matter in the House——

It did not take me a month to mention it, like it took your Department two months to reply.

The Deputy would never have raised the question but that I gave him certain information. I do not mind his taking advantage of it. It was at a Fine Gael convention in Letterkenny that it was raised.

You know the councillor says that there is no water supply in Fanad at all.

I will back Deputy Blaney in everything I can possibly do to give Fanad a water supply.

The Dáil adjourned at 11 p.m. until 3 p.m. on Wednesday, 11th May, 1955.

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