Let us not bother with that. The total number of applications for medals without the bar is 62,473. Of that number 34,797 are issued and the number refused is 2,605. The number of applications withdrawn or not followed up by the applicants is 9,206, and the number of claims still under consideration on the 31st May, 1955, was 13,865. That gets every member of the Old I.R.A. thinking very seriously, and it certainly gave me to think very seriously on the whole question. I do not want to commit my predecessor but I feel that it made him think also. If he were here perhaps there are further statements I could make but in his absence I am not going to do so.
The number of service certificates granted under the 1924 Act was 4,093 and the number of applications was 22,050. Under the 1934 Act the number that applied was 64,480 and the number of certificates issued to date is 13,225. Under the 1949 Act the number of certificates issued is 1,600 odd. The disturbing feature about medals is that they have been and are still issued on the certification of two officers of the battalion or brigade.
Last night Deputy Flynn appealed to me for a loosening-up of that form of certification so that it might be made easier. In the County of Kerry alone there are 58 cases in which medals were granted and subsequently 29 of the persons concerned were granted special allowances. Subsequent to the issue of the medals and the special allowances, four senior officers of the Kerry Brigade reported that these people were never in the Volunteers at all although in most of the cases the people reporting that were the people who originally certified that they were in the Volunteers.
That shook my predecessor. It certainly shook me. When that information came to my predecessor he did the only thing he could do and that was to withdraw the medals and cancel the special allowance where it was being paid until there had been further examination and investigation. It was because Deputy Flynn asked me to open up this matter and made certification easier that I mention County Kerry but on reinvestigation of these 58 cases it was found that only eight people qualified for restoration of the medal and allowance.
The total number of these cases all over the country in which reports have been received is 106 and there is not a brigade area in Ireland where there is not a person who appears to have received the medal improperly. That forces me into the position that I will have to review the whole question. There will have to be a complete examination of the whole problem. How I am going to do it and how I am going to advise the Government as to what they should do I am blest if I know because of all the pieces of legislation that ever went through this House this is the most difficult that was ever given to a Minister to operate. Why it should be the unfortunate Minister for Defence that is called on to operate it I do not know. It should not be part of the defensive problem of the country as to how pensions should be paid.
I for one would surrender the thing to any other Minister with the utmost alacrity were it not for one fact and that is that I would be afraid that I would be avoiding my responsibilities and that some of my comrades of the past would not be given what they are entitled to. That is the problem. I am sure there is not a Deputy listening to me who does not realise that it is a terrible situation. I have met deputations from the Old I.R.A. and put the difficulty to them. I have asked them to give me a solution—to give me a record from each brigade area of who were and were not in the pre-Truce Vouunteers, and I have told them that I do not care in what circumstances some of the previous records were made, but that I will agree to consider the matter on the records now supplied by them to me. It is a big task to ask the brigade officers of any particular area to do that. Some of them have accepted the task and some of them have done so not so willingly. There is that problem.
On the question of allowances raised by Deputy Gilbride, the Act lays it down clearly that there must be an examination of means each year. Where the applicant has the old age pension himself it is not taken into consideration but where the husband and wife are both in receipt of the old age pension the wife's pension is taken in. Where a son is contributing a sum to the house—say £2—it is not calculated at that rate for means purposes but at the rate of 10/- and in some cases it is down to 5/-. The means test is there since special allowances started and to do anything about it would mean new legislation and, as I said last night, that does not arise upon the Estimate. Whatever steps I am going to take about fresh legislation will have to be examined and brought forward as quickly as possible.
Deputy Hilliard referred to the commencement date for special allowances. Again I am bound by the statute. The allowance must date from the date the medical board examines the applicant. They can only find on examination that on that particular date the disability is present; they are not able to decide or asked to decide that it was there three or six months ago. Therefore, the only thing that may appear to be wrong is the delay between the date of the application and the examination. We have tried to speed that up by appointing all over the country certain medical officers of eminent quality and qualifications. They will examine the person and send up the report to the board and the board will act upon the information sent.
I admit that does not always work out in the interests of the applicant because some of the medical officers down the country have not always the experience of the board. They have not the technique which the board has and which I must say is in favour of the applicant whenever possible. I would say that 999 times out of 1,000 the applicant gets the benefit of the doubt and that as we are getting on in years the board is now becoming more lenient. When they find a man of 59, 60 or 62, suffering a certain degree of disability, they take the view that that man is nearing the end of his labour and that he is not fit for physical labour in order to earn a livelihood. They are erring upon the right side, if I might put it that way, and I am glad they take that view.
To go back to Deputy Traynor's speech, I might say that I have the exact figures here. Since the 1949 Act was passed the number of new certificates issued was 1,604. Might I just remind the House that in 1947 the then Government decided that everybody who was entitled to a pension had got it? On examination even by the same Referee—God rest him—it was found that there were people whom he previously rejected who were in fact entitled to pensions. I am not blaming him but, as I said then in the Dáil and as I said to the Referee himself, it was unfair to ask him to revise and reject his own decisions. It was not fair either to himself or to the applicant.
I will run through these figures because they are very important. The total number of petitions received under the 1949 Act was 20,827. There were 154 applications late and I suppose if it were left for another two years there would still be 154 late. There is always somebody trying to come in when the door is closed. Negative reports after hearing numbered 3,050, and negative reports without hearing, 2,105; non-prima facie cases numbered 9,132. The number still to be dealt with by the Referee is 4,148. There were 88 forms yet in the hands of the Department not sent to the Referee. In view of what I have said you can see the difficulty. I must amend the Act or do something else in regard to this problem and I will need all the help I can get from everybody concerned.
Deputy Traynor expressed the hope that the reduction of £100 in sub-head D for travelling expenes did not mean that there would be a change in the policy of the board about going down to the country. No, the board will go down. That has been taken into consideration and this was the expenditure, as it turned out. The reduction is of no significance. The decrease of £8,807 in respect of disease and disability pensions represents the reduction in the number of new pensions expected to come on pay during the the present financial year as compared with last year. It does not represent any alteration in relation to the pensions already being paid.
The Deputy has asked a question in regard to hospital treatment. The reduction of £550 in the present provision is based on current expenditure. Nobody entitled to hospital treatment will be deprived of it because of a reduction in the amount. Deputy Traynor also referred to the latest date for applying for eligibility for the special allowance, and as I have already said that is fixed by statute and there is nothing I can do about it.
There is this difficulty under the 1953 Act and it is rather disturbing. Deputy Gilbride raised the question of an applicant under the 1953 Act who died before the award was made and whose daughter was unable to apply owing to the statutory date being passed. Again an amendment to the Act is necessary.
