Vol. 152 No. 3
Tairgim:—
Go ndeonfar suim nach mó ná £231,090 chun slánuithe na suime is gá chun íoctha an mhuirir a thiocfas chun bheith iníoctha i rith na bliana dar críoch an 31ú lá de Mhárta, 1956, chun Tuarastal agus Costas Oifig an Aire Oideachais agus chun Costas a bhaineas leis an gComhairle Oideachais.
Gabhann leis na diospóireachtaí seo, is dócha, Vótaí 40 go dtí 46?
Támuid ag glacadh leis na Vótaí eile síos go dtí 46.
Is é méid iomlán atá á iarraidh i mbliana le haghaidh na hocht Vótaí go bhfuilimse freagrach ionta ná £11,822,380—ionann sin agus £7,490 de laghdú ar mhéid na bliana anuraidh. Is mian liom a rá, áfach, nár cheart go dtuigfí as an laghdú san go bhfuil cúngú á dhéanamh ar aon cheann de na príomhsheirbhísí oideachais. Is é is mó is cúis leis ná gur díoladh anuraidh an ceann deireannach de na trí scaranna don chnapshuim ex gratia a bhí le híoc le múinteoirí náisiúnta a chuaigh ar scur roimh 1950 agus, dá bhrí sin, níl aon tsoláthar chuige sin i Vóta na bliana seo. Dá bhfágtaí an soláthar chun na críche sin as an áireamh agus comparáid a dhéanamh idir an dá bhliain i leith na hocht Vótaí le chéile, bheadh soláthar iomlán na bliana so níos mó ná cuid na bliana anuraidh de £136,000. Go deimhin, chun riar do na costais bhreise a tharlóidh de bharr méadú do theacht ar an líon daltaí i ngach saghas de na trí saghsanna scol (bunscoileanna, meánscoileanna agus gairm-scoileanna), is amhlaidh nárbh fholáir cur leis an tsuim atá ag teastáil mura mbeadh gur deineadh sábháil thrí oibriú na scéime Eagar agus Modha ar chostais a bhain le foirinn na Roinne, go bhfuil laghdú tagtha ar an líon daltaí sna Scoileanna Saothair agus sna Scoileanna Ceartúcháin, gur lú an méid atá dhá sholáthar d'Institiúid Ard-léinn Bhaile Átha Cliath agus fós gur cruinne na modhanna meastacháin atá dhá leanacht i gcás na Vótaí seo i gcoitinne.
Ó tharla laghdú a bheith ar an méid iomlán atá á iarraidh, do ghlacas mar chaoi agam san chun cead an Aire Airgeadais d'fháil go ndéanfaí athrú ar mhodh íocaíochta na ndeontaisí £5 a tugtar do thuismitheoirí daltaí na Gaeltachta a ghnáthaíonn Gaeilge a labhairt ionas go mbeifear i ndon an deontas a íoc i leith gach aon bhliain ag tráth níos luaithe ná mar a deintear fé láthair. Toisc dáta na híocaíochta a luathú mar sin, is intuigthe go ngabhfaidh breis chostais leis an socrú an chéad bhliain dó ag obair, is é sin, an £17,500 atá á sholáthar fé mhírcheann C.9 de Vóta 40. Ní cuid de chúram riaracháin na Roinne seo agamsa an caiteachas a ghabhann le tógáil agus feabhsúchán scol náisiúnta. Gabhann na gnóthaí san le Vóta 9 atá faoina riaradh ag Coimisinéirí na nOibreacha Poiblí agus tá soláthar de £1,350,000 á dhéanamh i mbliana ann le haghaidh bun scoileanna. Mar sin, tá £13,172,380 d'iomlán á chur ar fáil le haghaidh seirbhísí oideachais i gcóir 1955-56, is é sin, 12.5% den mbreis agus £105,000,000 ar fad atá á sholáthar chun na seirbhísí go léir le céile. Sa bhliain 1946-47, cuir i gcás, dob é iomlán a caitheadh ar a gcomh-shaghas céanna de sheirbhísí oideachais ná £6,039,058, rud ab ionann agus 11.5% de chostas iomlán na seirbhísí soláthair.
Léiríonn an chomparáid gur feabhsaíodh, roinnt, ar staid na seirbhísí seo againne i gcoitinne i gcaitheamh na tréimhse. Ní hionann san agus a rá go bhfuil oiread airgid agus dob áil liomsa á chur ar fáil ach níltear ag titim siar agus ní beag de chúis sásaimh é sin dúinn mar, d'ainneoin a thábhachtaí é, níl san oideachas ach ceann amháin de na héilimh a bhionn ag síor-bhrú ar an gciste náisiúnta.
Sula ndéanfad trácht ar aon cheann de na Vótaí éagsúla tá sé le rá agam gur cuireadh im láthair, an samhradh seo caite, tuarascáil na Comhairle Oideachais ar an bhfeidhm a bhaineann leis an mbunscoil agus ar an gcúrsa léinn a leanfaí inti go haois dhá bhliain déag. Is mé do cheap an Chomhairle i gcéaduair um Aibreán na bliana naoi déag caogadh agus do hainmníodh aon duine déag agus fiche do chomhaltaí dhi an tráth san. Maidir leis na comhaltaí sin, cé go rabhadar láncháilithe chun labhairt thar cionn gnéithe seachas a chéile de chúrsaí oideachais agus eacnamaíochta na tíre, do dheineas cúram de nach ina n-ionadaithe a ainmneofaí ag aon ghrúpa ná conhlucht a ceapfaí iad ach go mbeidís saor, chomh fada agus dob áil leo é, chun a gcomhairle féin ar leith a thabhairt don Aire Oideachais agus, ins an slí sin, go bhfaighfí iomlán tairbhe a gcuid taithí agus a gcuid eolais agus a gcuid caidrimh leis na nithe sin go léir a cuirfí féna mbráid ó am go ham.
Níorbh ionann san agus a rá go mbeadh an Chomhairle ina tionól de dhaoine a bheadh gan feidhm gan freagarthacht acht gurb amhlaidh ná beadh sí ina láthair cruinnithe ag líon áirithe de theachtaí go mbeadh gach duine acu fé cheangal dualgais fónamh do pholasaí oifigiúil an údaráis a ainmnigh é agus gan ar a chumas aontú le moladh ar bith gan dul in ath-chomhairle leis an údarás san. Ba léir dom ó thosach, dá mba mar sin a bheadh sé, nár gá Comhairle a bhunú in aon chor toisc nach miste don Roinn, uair ar bith is mian é, dul i gcomhairle leis na grupaí agus na dreamanna go léir ag a bhfuil baint le haon ghné ar leith den ghnó a bheadh fé iniúchadh agus, ina theannta san, ná féadfaí a bheith ag súil ó Chomhairle a bheadh comh-dhéanta mar sin go bhfeidhmeodh sí ar fónamh ina buan-ghléas oibre.
Ba mhór an t-ábhar sástachta domhsa sa 1950 gur éirigh liom comhluadar de dhaoine, idir chléir agus tuath, a bhí chomh hiomráiteach agus chomh cleachtach san a thabhairt le chéile i mbun na hoibre agus is móide fós mo chuid sástachta anois toisc go bhfuilid uile go léir, gach duine amháin díobh, tar éis glacadh go fonnmhar deamhéineach le cuireadh uaim ag iarraidh orthu go leanfaidís do thabhairt a gcuid seirbhíse go ceann tréimhse eile cúig mblian. Is mór, leis, mo bhuíochas ar na comhaltaí nua a thoiligh glacadh le hionaid a bhí folamh sa Chomhairle de bharr go bhfuair bun-comhaltaí bás, faríor, nó go mb'éigean dóibh éirí as feidhmeannais ar chúiseanna príobhaideacha pearsanta. Sé mo thuairim féin go díongbhálta maidir leis an mbunús ar a bhfuil an Chomhairle tógtha, gurb é is fearr agus is dóichí a sholáthróidh dúinn an treoir agus an cúnamh a theastaíonn uainn.
Im thuairimse, do chuir céadthuarascáil seo na Comhairle mórchuid rí-thábachtach de bhreis lena raibh d'eolas againn cheana ar ghnóthaí oideachais agus tá iniúchadh críochniúl déanta inti ar an gceist a chuireas ina láthair le scrúdú. Na moltaí atá sa tuarascáil, tugann siad i láthair réim mhór de cheisteanna tábhactacha a bhaineann le hoideachas agus le hairgeadas. Go gairid tar éis an tuarascáil a thabhairt i láthair do cuireadh cóipeanna di go dtí Cliarfhlaitheas na hEireann, go dtí Easpaig Eaglais na hEireann agus lucht ceannais na n-eagraíochtaí eile creidimh agus go dtí na comhlachais uile de chuid bainisteoirí agus múinteoirí, agus tugadh cuireadh dóibh a dtuairimi a thabhairt i dtaobh a raibh i gceíst. Tá freagraí a bhfáil ar an gcuireadh san agus is mian liom iad a admháil go buíoch.
Na moltaí iomaí atá sa tuarascáil ag tagairt i measc rudaí eile, do cheist na teangan, do cheisteanna bhaineas leis an gclár léinn agus do fhoirinn mhúinteoireachta na scol, táid san go léir fé ghéar-iniúchadh sa Roinn seo agamsa agus na tuairimí a fuarthas ó na comhluchtaí Eaglaise agus oideachais á gcur i bhfianaise chomh maith. Sé mo dhóchas go bhféadfar teacht ar shocruithe cruinne cinnte i dtaobh a lán dá bhfuil do mholtaí sa tuarascáil ach caithfidh mé breis éigin ama a iarraidh chuige sin. Sa chás san de, measaim nárbh fhearr dom a thuilleadh a rá i láthair na huaire i dtaobh a bhfuil sa tuarascáil. Táimíd ag iarraidh a shocrú cad é an bonn a chuirfimid fén ár gcóras comh-eagraithe oideachais agus, go dtí go mbeidh san déanta, níorbh aon tairbhe an gné eile comhthábhachtach céanna den cheist a bhaineann le craobhú agus bláthú an chórais a thógaint ar láimh, sé sin, socruithe a dhéanamh fé thuairim an oideachais leanúna.
Ní den réasúntacht é, ach oiread, a bheith ag súil go dtabharfadh an Chomhairle aghaidh ar an mórcheist san go dtí gurbh fhíos dóibh cad ba chor do na moltaí a bhí acu sa chéad iarracht a chuireadar uathú. Dob é sin ba chúis dom a iarraidh ar an gComhairle cúrsa léinn na meánscolaíochta a chur fé iniúchadh an fhaid a bheifí ag teacht chun cruinnbhreithe ar na moltaí a dheineadar cheana féin i leith bunscolaíochta, mar tá cuid sin na meánscolaíochta den cheist so-scartha ón bhfaidhb ghinearálta de bharr cáilíocht shean bhunaithe na meánscolaíochta féin agus de bharr gur fios go gcaithfidh meánscoileanna bheith ann, agus go mbeidh siad ann, is cuma cén córas nó cén comheagraíocht eile a cuirfí ar bun.
Ar na Vótaí ar leith atá fém chúramsa tá Uimhir 39—Oifig an Aire Oideachais— agus taispeántar ann laghdú caiteachais de £11,000 agus laghdú de chúigear duine ar an líon iomlán fóirne ó 492 anuas go dtí 487. Do deineadh an méid sin sábhála d'ainneoin gurbh éigin fairsingiú le rannóig tógála na scol de bharr na mór-scéime atógála, agus is féidir liom a shuíomh go cinnte gur tré oibriú an bheartais ar a dtugtar "Eagar agus Modha" a tháinig déanamh na sábhála i gceist agus gur deineadh an méid sin a shábháil gan aon chailliúint ó thaobh éifeachtúlachta. Táthar ag súil go bhféadfar a thuilleadh laghduithe a dhéanamh de bharr leanúint d'oibriú an bheartais sin.
Tá £8,149,130 de shuim á sholáthar fá choinne Vóta 40 is é sin, bunoideachas. Is ionann sin agus laghdú £113,360 ar chuid na bliana anuraidh. Do dheineas tagairt cheana féin do na fáthanna atá leis an laghdú san.
Do mhéadaigh ar an líon iomlán dá raibh de dhaltaí ar na rollaí ó 484,364 an 30ú Meitheamh, 1953 go dtí 490,157 an 30ú Meitheamh, 1954, sin 5,800 dalta de bhreis, agus tá le rá gur deineadh 85.6% de mheántinreamh laethúil arís fé mar deineadh sa bhliain 1952-53—an meán-tinreamh is airde dar sroiseadh. Bhí laghdú bliantúil ar an líon daltaí sna scoileanna gach bliain le breis agus fiche bliain anuas, go dtí an bhliain 1947 agus an bhliain sin d'áireamh nuair ba 457,052 an líon iomlán de dhaltaí a bhí ar na rollaí. On mbliain 1947 i leith, tá méadaithe de 37,000 ar an líon daltaí agus bhí an uimhir díobh a bhí ar na rollaí ar an 30ú Meitheamh, 1954, níos airde ná mar bhí aon tráth ó 1935 i leith. Dealraíonn sé go leanfaidh den mhéadú go ceann roinnt bhliain le teacht agus, ina dhiaidh sin, is cosúil go raghaidh laghdú ar an líon do réir mar a laghdaigh ar líon na mbreith le blianta beaga anuas.
An méadú san gur leanadh de le deich éigin de bhlianta anuas, agus na feabhsuithe go léir a cuireadh ó thrath go chéile i rith na tréimhse céanna ar na socruithe le haghaidh foirne múinte na scol, is de bharr na nithe sin a tharla an teirce oidí oilte a tháinig i gceist le roinnt bhlian anuas. Is cúis sástachta, áfach, go bhfuil sé le rá go bhuiltear tar eis socruithe a dhéanamh agus go bhfuiltear ag súil go dtiocfaidh an gné sin don ghnó chun cothroma dá mbarr. Le linn Meastachain na bliana anuraidh a bheith á gcur fé mbhur mbráid agam, do thagras don chomh-oibriú a fuaireas go fial óna Ghrása, Ard-Easpag Atha Cliath, agus ó lucht údaráis Choláiste Oiliúna Bhaintiarna na Trócaire sa Dubhcharraig, agus tá, dá bharr san, uimhir níos airde d'ábhair bhan-oidí á nglacadh sa Choláiste Oiliúna san ón Mheán Fómhair seo caite.
Is mian liom a admháil anois go bhfuil a chomhshaghas céanna eile do chomaoin á dhéanamh ag a Ghrása agus lucht údaráis Choláiste Oiliúna Phádraig Naofa, Dromchonrach, ar láimh amháin agus ag an dTiarna, Easpag Luimnigh, agus lucht údaráis Choláiste Oiliúna Mhuire gan Smál, Luimneach, ar an láimh eile, agus go bhfuiltear ag réiteach go nglacfar uimhir níos airde d'ábhair oidí fear agus ban ina gcuid coláistí leith ar leith. I gcionn trí mblian nó mar sin, ba cheart go mbeadh toradh iomlán na dtrí méaduithe sin ar fáil agus dá bharr san, raghaidh méadú de dheichniúr fear agus céad is deichniúr ban ar líon na n-oidí a oilfear gach bliain.
Institiúidí príobháideacha iad na Coláistí Oiliúna agus is móide sin ár sástacht lena gcuid bainisteoirí agus lucht ceannais de bhrí a fhonnmhaire a bhíodar chun gach cabhair a thabhairt ar mhaithe le ceist seo na teirce a réiteach agus socruithe a dhéanamh i dtaobh soláthar an airgid a bhí ag teastáil chun díol as na fairsingithe móra tógála a bhí riachtanach i gcúrsaí an ghnótha. Táthar á mheá, idir an dá linn, an mbeidh níos mó fós ná san de mhúinteoirí oilte ag teastáil agus conas a fhéadfaí íad a sholáthar. An fhaid agus a beifear ag fanúint le toradh do theacht do bharr na mbeart san atá déanta cheana féin, tá socruithe sealadacha déanta i bhfreastal ar an ngnó, cuir i gcás, príomhoidí agus cúntóiri atá ar seirbhís fé láthair ach a bheadh ag scur sa ghnáthshlí ar shroisint cúig bliana agus seasca d'aois dóibh, táthar ag ceadú dóibhsin, ar choiníollacha áirithe, fanúint sa tseirbhís go dtí go mbeidh seacht mbliana agus seasca d'aois slánaithe acu.
Táthar freisin chun céimithe Ollscoile, idir lucht pas agus onóracha, a ghlacadh ins na Goláistí Oiliúna chun cúrsa aon bhliana amháin in ionad cúrsa dhá bhliain mar ba ghnáth. Tá sé á bheartú leis a cheadú d'oidí go bhfuil seacht mbliana agus seasca slánaithe acu fanúint sa tseirbhís go mbeidh siad ocht mbliana agus seasca ar na coinníollacha céanna a bhaineann leo-súd gur síneadh a gcuid seirbhíse thar aois cúig mblian seascad ach ba mhaith liom a rá nach bhfuil sé i gceist go gcoimeádfaí aon oide sa tseirbhís thar aois ocht mblian seascad dó.
I dteannta na socruithe sin féin, tá uimhir áirithe de dhaoine nach bhfuil na gnáth-cháilíochtaí acu a glacadh chun seirbhíse ar ghlan-choinnioll sealadachta mar gurbh fhearr san ná na folúntaisí a fhágaint gan líonadh ins na scoileanna. Ins na cásanna san, deineann an Roinn an cúram is mó is féidir d'fhonn daoine d'fhail go bhfuil bun-cháilíocht áirithe oideachais acu— pas, ar a laghad, sa Scrúdú Ard-Teistiméireachta. Ó am go nam iarrtar orm cealú a dhéanamh ar an riail a cheanglann ar bhan-oidí éirí as an seirbhís ar phósadh dhóibh. Tá an riail sin i bhfeidhm ó 1934.
Nuair a bhí an riail á beartú do bhí sé ina ábhar áitimh ag daoine áirithe go mbeadh droch-thoradh uirthi mar riail chomh fada agus a bhain le soláthar banoidí agus leis an ráta pósta ina measc. Is geal liom a rá gur bréagnaíodh go glan sa toradh gach a luadh san áiteamh san. Dar liom féin agus dar leis na hAirí do chuaigh romham, tá cúiseanna láidre ó thaobh oideachais, comhdhaonachais agus eacnamaíochta i bhfábhar na rialach agus táimse go dearbh i gcoinne a hathruithe.
Is geal liom é bheith le lua agam gur síníodh, an llú Nollaig seo caite, ag Cumann na Múinteoirí Náisiúnta, an tAire Airgeadais agus agam féin scéim nua Comhréitigh agus Eadrána a bhaineann le cúrsaí tuarastail na múinteoirí náisiúnta. An chéad scéim a bhí ann chuige sin, do chuaigh sí as feidhm i mí Feabhra, 1952, tar éis aon-bhliana amháin ag obair di agus idir an dá linn níor éirigh leis an Rialtas agus na múinteoirí teacht ar aonfhocal maidir le téarmaí na nua-scéime ná cathain a thiocfadh sí i bhfeidhm. Tar éis dom dul i mbun feidhmeannais anuraidh do teagmháil arís le Cumann na Múinteoirí agus, de bharr diospóireachta, fuarthas go bhféadfaí scéim rannpháirteach a cheapadh a bheadh inghlactha ag na múinteoirí agus a thabharfadh cosaint iomlán, ins an am gcéanna, ar stáid an Stáit mar údarás ceannais ar a bhfuil freagarthacht maidir le soláthar an airgid i gcoir tuarastal na múinteoirí agus allúntaisí eile.
Táim fé chomaoin ag an Aire Airgeadais de bharr a dtug sé de chúnamh dom sa ghnóthaiocht san agus is mian liom go luafainn mo dhea-mheas ar an aigne réasúnta a bhí ar na toscairí san de chuid Chumann na Múinteoirí a ghlac páirt ins na diospóireachtaí. Meastar an scéim nua a bheith ina ghléas buan ach, más gá agus má aontaítear chuige, féadfar an scéim a athscrúdú nó deireadh a chur léi o thaobh ar bith ach fógra leathbhliana a thabhairt. Tá an Breitheamh Oirearc Ó Conaire ceaptha ina Chathaoirleach ar an mBord Réitigh agus Eadrána agus d'aontaigh na múinteoirí chuige sin. Tá sé ina choinnioll shocair do réir na scéime, ag tagairt don dtráth ar a mbaistfidh mé "an tréimhse tórmaigh"—sé sin, an fhaid aimsire a bhíonn éileamh ag gabháil tré ghléasra na scéime—ná cuirfidh na múinteoirí corráil phoiblí do shót ar bith ar bun ar mhaithe lena gcás féin, ná nach mbeidh siad leaspháirteach ina leitheid, ná nach ndéanfaidh siad "a thabhairt ar aon eagraíocht ón dtaobh amuigh cás a dhéanamh ar a son." I gcomaoin ar an dea-spioraid sin, measaim nach cuí dhom labhairt ar oibriú na scéime ó bunaíodh í Mí na Nollaig seo caite ach sé mo ghuidhe dílis go solathróidh sí modh sásúil treortha chun réiteach a dhéanamh go hordúil ar na ceisteanna a tharlaíonn ó am go ham i dtaobh tuarastal na múinteoirí.
Roinnt bheag mí ó shoin do thug an Chúirt Uachtarach breith ar chásanna tábhachtacha Uí Cheallacháin agus Uí Chinnéide. Cásanna ab ea iad a tugadh i lathair na cúirte ag beirt mhúinteoirí fear a mheas gur sháraigh an tAire na cumhachtaí is dleacht dó nuair a thug sé malairt scálaí tuarastail i bhfeidhm d'oidí pósta thar oidí aonta sa bhliain 1946. Tar éis na breithe a tugadh san Ard-Chúirt i mí Iúil 1953, do thug na múinteoirí an cás ina chúis achomhairc i láthair na Cúirte Uachtaraí. Triail-chás a measadh a bhí ann go dtiocfadh na céadta múinteoirí agus suimeanna móra airgid fé réim a bhreithre. Cabhraíonn an bhreith a thug an Chúirt Uachtarach chun réim agus teoranta cumhachta an Aire a dheimhniú chomh fada agus a bhaineann le scálaí tuarastail d'oidí náisiúnta a shocrú agus, san am gcéanna, tá diúltadh inti d'éileamh na n-oidí go ndeachaigh an tAire thar a dhleachtanas sa bheartas san a dhein sé i leith na n-oidí sa bhliain 1946.
Má tá aon cheist ná fuil ina h-ábhar conspóide, sí ceist í ná an gá atá ann go soláthrófaí scoil-fhoirgintí a bheadh oiriúnach, sláintiúil, compórdach agus taithneamhach in áit na sean-scoileanna atá lochtach, neamhshásúil. Cé go bhfuil mórchuid le déanamh fós sula mbeidh sáraithe ar throm-ualach na sean-riaráistí, is ábhar sástachta é go bhfuil éirithe chomh maith san leis na hiarrachtaí a deineadh le blianta beaga anuas chun sean-fhoirgintí atá imithe ó thairbhe a thréigint. Ar a thaisteal do dhuine tríd an tír inniú, do chífí dhó a iomadúla atá nua-scoileanna maisiúla ins gach ceard di—na foirgintí breátha feisceanacha ins na cathracha agus na mórbhailte agus na cinn bheaga néata cluthara ins na tuath-cheantair imchiana. Ní hannamh a thugann cuairteoirí ó thíortha eile moladh árd ar mhaise agus ar fhuaimint na hailtireachta a chíonn siad inár gcuid scol agus is d'fhoirinn gairmiúil agus teicniúil Choimisinéirí na nOibreacha Poiblí atá an chreidiúint sin ag dul.
Nuair a bhíonn na réamh-shocruithe déanta ag an Roinn seo agamsa, siad na Coimisinéirí a thógann orthu féin gach gnó a bhaineann leis an leagan amach agus leis an dtógáil a ghabhann leis an deisiúchán, nó an feabhsúchán, nó an fairsingiú, do réir mar a bhíonn i gceist. Toisc na deacraí a bhaineann le foirinn gairmiúil agus teicniúil a fhostadh, ní raibh ar a gcumas ag na Coimisinéirí an obair a chur díobh do réir an ráta céanna ar cuireadh chucu í ón Roinn ach is cúis áthais dom a bheith le rá go bhfuil an fhadhb san ar tí a réitithe cheana féin. I rith na bliana dar chríoch an 31ú Márta, 1955, do cheadaigh an Roinn seo agamsa deontaisí tógála a shrois £1,750,000 san iomlán agus sin méid nár sáraíodh riamh. Sé méid iomlán an chaiteachais mheasta a bhí i gceist dá réir sin—agus breis is £232,000 a tugadh mar íocaíochtaí áitiúla a chur san áireamh—ná díreach tuairim is £2,000,000 glan ar fad.
Do tugadh na deontaisí sin ar son 82 de nua-scoileanna a thógaint, an fhigiúir is airde a shroicheadh riamh, bliain ar bith, i gcás deontaisí, maraon le 20 ceann de scéimeanna mór-fhairsingthe, 63 de chásanna móra feabhsúcháin ar chostas £500 nó breis agus 333 do chásanna eile feabhsúcháin. Figiúirí iadsan go ngabhann tábhacht leo, measaimse, agus bhíodh go bhfuil moill ag gabháil le comhlánú na hoibre do réir mar a dúrt, is ionann dáiliú na ndeontaisí mar sin agus deimhniú foirmeálta á thabhairt i bpáirt an Stáit de go raghfar ar aghaidh go díreach leis an obair. D'ainneoin a gcuid deacrachtaí, d'eirigh le hOifig na hOibreacha Poiblí freastal a dhéanamh ar scoil-obair a chosain £1,051,000 san iomlán agus, cé gur árd an fhigiúir í sin, do bheadh sí níos airde fós muna mbeadh an bac a chuir an droch-aimsir ar ghnóthaí tógála.
Do críochnaíodh 53 de nua-scoileanna i rith na bliana. Tá sé ar aigne agam gan staonadh den mhór-iarracht so an fhaid a bheidh an riachtanas ann le freastal air. Do réir a chéile tá aigne an phobail á múscailt níos mó chun tuisceanna ar riachtanaisí an cháis agus, ins an am gcéanna, raghaidh sé ina luí ar na daoine a thábhachtaí é go ndéanfaidís a gcaoinchion féin de íocaíocht fé thuairim costas na hoibre agus, rud nach lú tábhacht ná san, go bhféachfaidís chuige go gcoimeádfaí an chóiriú is cuí agus is ceart, istigh 's amuigh, ar an bhfoirgint nua tar éis í chur ar fáil. Is córas rannpháirteach é.
Deineann an Stát agus an ceantar comhlánú ar iarrachtaí a chéile ach is i seilbh na ndaoine amháin go hiomlán a fhanann na foirgintí. Is den riachtanas go n-iompródh gach taobh den dá thaobh a chion féin den ualach. Is cúis áthais dom é bheith le rá i dtaobh mórchuid de na bainisteoirí go ngabhaid chun na hoibre go réasúnta tuisceanach agus, tré ghníomhú dhóibh thar cionn a bpobail, réitíonn siad méid na híocaíochta áitiúla leis an Roinn agus deinid dícheal go gcomhlíonfaí na socruithe a réitítear. Thrí leanúint den chomh-oibriú san agus thrí chur leis, más féidir, tá súil agam go n-éireoidh linn neartú níos mó fós leis an gcóras neamhchoitianta de-pháirteach so go bhfuil d'éifeacht ann, tar éis cuid don ualach a chur i leith chiste an Stáit, go soláthraíonn sé caoi do na daoine a ndea-mheas orthu féin a chothú agus a ndea-shuim ina gcuid seilbhíochta féin agus a n-áird uirthe a thaispeáint.
Tá £58,250 de mhéadú glan ar Bhóta an Mheán-Oideachais i gcomórtas leis an mbliain seo caite. An méadú san, sé is bun leis ná an fás a tháinig fé líon na ndaltaí atá ag freastal ar na meán-scoileanna. Tagann den bhfás san go gcaithfear breis airgid a chur ar fáil i gcóir deontaisí caipitíochta, tuarastal na múinteoirí, riar na scrúdaithe agus deontaisí speisialta i leith ranganna Eolaíochta, ranganna Eolaíocht Thalmhan, ranganna Eolaíocht Thís agus ranganna Adhmadóireachta.
Ceithre chéad caoga is a hocht de mheán-scoileanna aithinte a bhí ann sa bhliain 1953-54 agus sé mhíle chaogad, ceithre chéad is duine déag de dhaltaí aithinte bhí ag freastal sa bhliain sin.
Má fhéachaimíd siar thar na blianta, 1922 a dó is fiche i leith, bhí timpeall míle scoláire níos mó ins na meánscoileanna gach bliain ná mar a bhí an bhliain roimhe sin, agus le blianta beaga anuas tá ag méadú ar an bhfás san. Cuir i gcás, bhí 2,393 de bhreis ann i 1954-55 thar an líon scoláire a bhí ann sa bhliain 1953-54.
Má chuimhnímíd ansan go raibh a leithéid chéanna d'fhás ann le cúig bliana is fiche sa líon scoláirí a bhí ag teacht ar na ceard-scoileanna, ní beag an t-abhar misnigh an scéal bheith amhlaidh. An fás mór san a tháinig fén líon scoláirí atá ag fáil iar-bhun-oideachais, agus gan aon iachall bheith orthu teacht ar scoil in aon chor, ní miste a rá gur saghas gníomh creidimh na tuismitheoirí é. Is maith agus is folláin an comhartha é, dar liom, go bhfuil muinín ag muintir na hÉireann astu féin agus go dtuigtear dóibh i gcoitinne go bhfuil ana-thairbhe le baint as an oideachas.
Nílim ag cur rómham a thuille tráchta a dhéanamh i mbliana ar an gcóras meán-oideachais—ar an abhar go bhfuilim tar éis a iarraidh ar an gComhairle Oideachais clár na Meánscol a scrúdú agus gur tharla iad i láthair na huaire i mbun na h-oibre sin. Níl aon amhras ná go mbeifear ag tnúth le toradh a saothair agus go mbeidh rath agus bláth ar an saothar san.
Ocht míle ochtód, naoi gcéad is triocha púnt de mhéadú glan atá ar mheastachán gairm-oideachais na bliana so i gcomórtas leis an mbliain seo caite.
An bhreis sin, sé is príomhchúis leis ná deontaisí breise ó Chiste an Stáit dona Coistí Gairm-Oideachais, ó tharla an gairm-oideachas 'á leathnú de shíor ó bhliain go bliain.
Sa tseisiún so caite bhí 220 gairmscoil sheasmhach ann agus ranganna lae iontu agus ina theanta san bhí ranganna tráthnóna agus oíche ag dul ar aghaidh i sé chéad ionad sealadach fén dtuaith. Desna scoileanna seasmhacha d'fhéadfaí a rá gur scoileanna bailte ochtó ceann acu agus gur scoileanna tuaithe céad agus dachad acu, ach, ar ndó, a lán lán desna scoileanna ins na bailte móra tá siad ag riar, tré cúrsaí speisialta, ar aos óg na tuaithe leis.
Timpeall fiche míle scoláirí a bhí ar rollaí na ngnáth-chúrsaí leanúna lae, agus suas le hochtó míle duine a bhí ag freastal ar chúrsaí páirt-aimsire.
Míle, trí chéad agus tríocha duine de mhúinteoirí lán-aimsire a bhí ann, mar aon le 1,120 de mhúinteoirí páirt-aimsire. Furmhór mór na múinteoirí páirt-aimsire, ag múineadh cúrsaí speisialta in iliomad abhar ranganna oíche a bhíodar.
An córas gairm-oideachais fé mar tá sé fé láthair, níl sé ann ach le cúig bliana fichead. Le linn na tréimhse sin, áfach, is tapaidh mar d'fhás sé, agus, ar ndó, ní dual fás tapaidh gan pianta fáis. Sa bhliain 1930, taobh amuigh de roinnt áirithe múinteoirí ins na cathracha nó ins na bailte móra, ní raibh puinn múinteoirí ann a d'fhéadfadh tabhairt fé na h-abhair speisialta atá ar chlár na nGairm-Scol agus mar sin de tá Roinn an Oideachais ar a sean-dícheall le cúig bliana fichead ag iarraidh dóithin múinteoirí cáilithe a chur ar fáil. Cúis áthais dom a bheith le rá agam anois go bhfuil cuma ar an scéal gur gairid eile go mbeidh oiread múinteoirí cáilithe ann is a bheidh ag teastáil.
An mhí seo caite (mí Mheithimh). cuir i gcás, tá dachad duine de mhúinteoirí Adhmadóireachta tar éis a gcúrsa oiliúna a chríochnú. Astu san, tá fiche múinteoir a fuair oiliúint speisialta sa bhFoirgneolaíocht Thuaithe. (Beidh focal fé leith agam le rá i gceann nóimeat nó dhó ina dtaobh súd). Tá fiche duine eile d'abhair múinteoirí Adhmadóireachta ar oiliúint fé láthair agus beidh a gcúrsa críochnaithe acu san i mí Mheithimh, naoi gcéad déag caoga is a sé. Go deimhin, do dheallródh sé go bhfuil an líon múinteoirí Adhmadóireachta i riocht dul anonn den méid postanna atá ann dóibh, ach má tharlaíonn san ní móide go mairfidh an scéal i bhfad mar sin. As so amach ní dócha go mba ró-dheacair riar chruinn a dhéanamh chun an líon múinteoirí cáilithe agus an riachtanas atá leo bheith ag freagairt dá chéile i leith an abhair úd Adhmadóireacht, abhar go bhfuil ana-leas le baint as ag gach éinne, idir lucht tuaithe is lucht cathrach.
Níl oiread ghlaoch ar an Miotalóireacht is atá ar an Adhmadóireacht, ach ní abrann san ná go raibh gorta múinteoirí Miotalóireachta ann, leis. Tá cúig dhuine dhéag des na múinteoirí san tar éis a gCúrsa Oiliúna a chríochnú an mhí seo caite, leis, agus beidh seisear déag eile oilte bliain ón am seo. Tá Cúrsa eile Oiliúna le tosnú i mí Dheireadh Fomhair seo chughainn, agus mar sin de níor cheart, measaim, aon ghanntanas múinteoirí Miotalóireachta bheith ann ins na blianta atá rómhainn amach.
Ar an droch-uair, ní ró-mhaith an bhail atá ar scéal na múinteoirí Tuaith-Eolaíochta. On bhliain 1951 anuas tá Cúrsaí Oiliúna dóibh seo 'á dtionól i gcomhair le Coláiste Iolscoile Chorcaí agus le Coiste Gairm-Oideachais Chontae Chorcaí, agus go deimhin tá Cúrsa dá leithéid ag dul ar aghaidh fé láthair. Ach beidh Cúrsa amháin eile ar a laghad ag teastáil, más linn riar ar an riachtanas. Tá cuma ar an scéal, áfach, gur gearr uainn go mbeidh méadú ar an líon bhliantúil de Chéimithe san Eolaíocht Thalmhaíochta a bheidh ag teacht ón Iolscoil agus ar ndó beidh lán-fháilte ag na Coistí Gairm-Oideachais roimh a leithéid.
Tá san am i láthair roinnt postanna ann do mhúinteoirí Gaeilge agus Abhar Leanúna agus tá socair ag an Roinn Cúrsa samhraidh bheith ann i mbliana, i gcóir Céimithe Iolscoile agus daoine eile. Táthar ag ceapadh go dtiocfaidh as an gCúrsa san go mbeidh riar ár gcáis den saghas san múinteoirí ann, go ceann roinnt bhliain ar aon chuma.
Is maith liom a bheith le rá agam go bhfuil dóithin mhaith múinteoirí Tís ann.
Ag trácht ar an scéal seo dom, ní miste a lua go bhfuilim féin agus an Roinn fé mhórchomaoin ag lucht ceannais Choláiste Iolscoile Chorcaí agus Coiste Gairm-Oideachais Cho. Chorcaí, ag Coiste Gairm-Oideachais Chathair Ath Cliath, Coiste Gairm-Oideachais Cho. na Gaillimhe, Coiste Gairm-Oideachais Cho, Dhún na nGall, Coiste Gairm-Oideachais Cho. Loch gCarman agus na Coistí Gairm-Oideachais go léir eile a thug cabhair don Roinn go fial fáilteach ó am go h-am chun múinteoirí a oiliúint. Ba mhaith liom mar an gcéanna mo bhuíochas a chur in iúl dosna h-Uird bhan rialta atá ag caitheamh a nduthrachta leis na múinteoirí Tís a oiliúint.
Le linn dúinn an gairm-oideachas a mheas, is ceart cuimhneamh air go bhfuil dhá aidhm ag an oideachas san. Sí chéad aidhm acu san ná clár cinnte abhar—obair láimhe den chuid is mó— a mhúineadh do bhuachaillí agus cailíní idir ceithre bliana déag agus sé bliana déag d'aois atá dá n-ullmhú féin i gcóir saghasanna áirithe postanna. Sí an dara h-aidhm ná riar a dhéanamh do dhaoine fásta. Is maith an bhail orainn gur féidir leas a bhaint as an aon fhoirinn, aon fhoirgneamh agus aon fhearas chun an dá aidhm sin a chur i gcrích.
Do luas cheana nár mhiste scoileanna tuaithe a thabhairt ar chéad agus dachad don dá chéad agus fiche ceardscoil atá ann. Má cuimhnímíd gur i gcathracha nó i mbailte móra a bhí an cúig scoil is seasca a bhí ann sa bhliain naoi gcéad déag is triocha, an bhliain in ar ritheadh an tAcht Gairm-Oideachais, is léir gur mhór ar fad an tairbhe do lucht na tuaithe ach go háirithe an fás a tháinig fén ngairmoideachas le cúig bliana is fiche. Ina thaobh san, ba mhaith liom a rá nach ceart, i mo thuairimse, an teagasc a tugtar sa ghairm scoil tuaithe a dheighilt ó aidhm spioradálta agus sóisialta na scoile. Sí an aidhm spioradálta sóisialta san ná meanmna árd a mhúscailt i muintir na tuaithe, a meon a iompó i dtreo shaol na tuaithe agus iad a ghríosadh chun ard-shaothar a dhéanamh agus chun ard-éifeacht a chur ina ngnáth-obair lae.
Caithfear an scoil a fhuineadh is a fháscadh as saol na tuaithe. Caithfidh ceangail den chuid is dlúithe bheith idir saol na múinteoirí agus saol mhuintir na h-áite agus caithfear obair na scoile a nascadh go teann le hobair an tí, le hobair na feirme agus le h-obair na gceardaithe. Do réir mar a thuigim, tá san á dhéanamh go dtí pointe áirithe. Cuspóir iseadh é gur fiú é aimsiú, agus sé mo chreideamh féin, muna n-aimsímíd an cuspóir sin, is saothar in aisce, cuid mhaith, aon teagasc foirmiúil dá fheabhas é.
B'fhéidir gur saghas físe nó aislinge caint den saghas so, ach má fhéachfaimíd siar céad bliain agus focail Thomáis Dáibhis nó focail John Henry Newman a thabhairt chun cuimhne, is rí-dhócha go raibh a lán daoine ann an uair úd nár smaoinigh riamh go dtiocfadh tairngireacht Newman, abair, i gcrích—an uair úd a thrácht sé "ar thír atá sean agus óg, í sean ina Críostaíocht ach í óg ó thaobh na cinniúna atá roimpi." Ní féidir le héinne, ar ndó, fios bheith aige ar an ní atá le teacht, ach is féidir go dtiocfaidh an lá fós ina mbeidh na stairithe á dhearbhadh gur as an céardúlacht a chothaigheann na gairm-scoileanna agus as an oscailt aigne agus an bunshuim i n-oideachas a ghabhann leis a tháinig slánú sóisialta agus geilleagrach na tíre agus gur thorthúla ná mar a tuigeadh dúinn féin ins an am an saothar atá déanta ó 1930 anuas.
Ní h-ionann san, ar ndó, is a rá nach bhfuil a riachtanas féin is a dtábhacht féin ag baint le scéimeanna Gairm-oideachais na gcathracha is na mbailte móra. An té nach mbeadh aige ach breac-eolas féin ar an ard-obair atá á dhéanamh ag Coiste Gairm-Oideachais Chathair Ath Cliath, cuir i gcás, ní fhéadfadh sé gan iongnadh a dhéanamh den tionscnamh is den fhuinneamh a chuireann an Coiste san i gcómhlíonadh a ndualgaisí, agus den chaoi ina bhfuil ag éirí leo bheith i gcuid chothrom leis an éileamh agus an síor-éileamh atá ann ar an gCúrsa so agus ar an gCúrsa úd agus ar Chúrsaí eile atá thar comhaireamh. Somplaí des na Cúrsaí úd iseadh an Cúrsa do Chigirí Sláinte atá ar n-a chríochnú i Scoil Shráid Chaoimhghin, cúrsa ar éirigh leis go rathúil; na Cúrsaí fíor-úsáideacha úd ar Riar Ghnótha atá ag dul ar aghaidh in Ard Scoil Rath Maoinis; na Cúrsaí sa Roinnte Mion-reice atá ag tarrach clú agus cáil ar Scoil Chearnóg Parnell, Cúrsa in-ar chuir na Ceardchumainn agus na fostaitheoirí le chéile iontu fá chroí mhór mhaith; agus an Cúrsa Fíortheicniceach ar Thairmchur Eiteallán a bhfuiltear tar éis é a chríochnú le goirid. Ba cheart dom a lua anso go raibh a leithéid chéanna de Chúrsa i leith Eiteallán ar siúl le déanaí ag Coiste Gairm-oideachais Cathair Luimní agus, taobh amuigh d'ionaid ins na Stáit Aontaithe féin, gurb iad ionad Bhaile Atha Cliath agus ionad Luimní an dá ionad is túisce a fuair aithint ó lucht Riartha na hEiteallóireachta Sibhialta i Washington.
An trácht atá agam á dhéanamh anso ar chúrsaí áirithe agus ar scoileanna áirithe i mBaile Atha Cliath, áit a bhfuil scéim ana-mhór ann, tá súil agam nach é a tuigfear as ná fuil an moladh céanna ag dul do Choistí eile. Coiste Chorcaí agus Coiste Luimní agus Coistí na gcathracha is na mbailte móra eile, ar ndó ní gá dom a rá go bhfuil siad san, leis, ag tabhairt aghaidhe go lán-éifeachtúil lán-mhisniúil mar an gcéanna ar na fadhbanna a bhíonn le réiteach acu, fadhbanna a bhaineas le cúrsaí léinn, foireann agus slí a chur ar fáil chun an obair a dhéanamh agus le mórán deacrachtaí eile. Sé a raibh agam á dhéanamh ná roinnt sompla a thabhairt desna dualgaisí iomadúla oideachais a thuiteann ar Choistí Gairm-Oideachais. Le fírinne, an méid cúrsaí agus an éagsúlacht cúrsaí a bhíonn ann do phrintísigh agus do cheardaithe den uile cheard beagnach, i mBaile Átha Cliath agus ar fud na tíre, níorbh fhéidir iad a chomhaireamh. Is maith mar a tharla go bhfuil idir cheardchumainn is fostaitheoirí ar aon fhocal fán tairbhe atá le baint as na cúrsaí seo, agus táthar ag teacht i dtaithí anois ar phrintísigh a ligint saor sa lá chun freastal ar na ranganna gan aon chuid dá bpáigh a cheilt orthu dá bharr san. Gan trácht ar an mhaitheas a thiocfaidh as an nós san ó thaobh oideachais de, is iontuigthe as, leis, go bhfuil tuiscint agus eagna ann anois nach mbíodh i gcónaí ann i measc lucht tionscail. Dea-thuar é sin ar dhea-thoil agus comhar bheith ann idir na h-oibritheoirí agus na fostaitheoirí ins an am atá rómhainn.
Tá gné amháin eile den Ghairm-Oideachas, agus ó tharla é nua, ba mhaith liom tagairt fé leith a dhéanamh dó. Sé gné é sin ná an Scéim atá ann chun Títhe Cónaithe a Fheabhsú. Fé mar is eol do bhaill an Tighe, tá deontaisí Rialtais Aitiúil agus Udaráis Aitiúil le fáil ag lucht tuaithe chun feabhas a chur ar a dtíthe chónaithe is eile, agus tá roinnt desna Coistí Gairm-Oideachais, i gcomhar le Roinn an Oideachais tar éis a gcuid múinteoirí Adhmadóireachta a chur ag cabhrú leis na feirmeoirí chun cur lena dtíthe agus chun gléas folláineachta agus eile a chur ar fáil. Le cupla bliain anuas táthar tar éis ard-obair den saghas san a dhéanamh in Acaill agus fós i gCo. Dhún na nGall agus i gCo. Chiarraí, cuir i gcás.
Tá an scéal san sa riocht anois go bhfuil gá le múinteoirí a bhfuil oiliúint speisialta acu ina chóir agus, fé mar tá luaite agam cheana, tá an Roinn tar éis oiliúint dá réir sin a thabhairt do fhiche duine a raibh taithí leitheadach acu roimis sin ar an bhFoirgneolaíocht. Tá an fiche múinteoir sin fá réir anois chun tosnú i mí Mheán Fomhair ar theagasc na Foirgneolaíochta Tuaithe.
Le linn cead bheith á thabhairt chun postanna bheith ann dosna múinteoirí seo, thugas tosach do Choistí a bhfuil limistéir Ghaeltachta féna gcúram agus do Choistí atá tar éis cabhrú cheana féin leis an Scéim chun Feabhas a chur ar Thíthe Cónaithe. Beidh caoi ag na Coistí sin dá réir sin a theaspáint do lucht na tuaithe conas is fearr eolas teicniceach a chur i bhfeidhm ins na títhe agus ar na feirmeacha, rud a d'fhéadfadh cor chun leasa a chur i staid gheilleagrach agus sóisialta na ndaoine fán dtuaith ná fuil mór chuid de mhaoin an tsaoil acu.
Féadaim a chur leis an méid sin go dtuigim ón Aire Rialtais Aitiúil nach ndéanfaidh an Roinn sin dhá chuid dá dícheall an tslí a réiteach dosna Coisti dosna múinteoirí agus don phobal le linn dóibh bheith ag tabhairt aghaidhe ar an bhfaidhb mhóir náisiúnta so.
Dhá chéad is a sé de mhílte naoi gcéad is dachad púnt (£206,940) an meastachán don bhliain seo ar riachtanaisí na Scoileanna Ceartúcháin agus na Scoileanna Saothair, sé sin, cúig mhíle déag púnt (£15,000) níos lú ná meastachán na bliana so caite. Sé is cúis leis an laghdú ná go bhfuiltear ag ceapadh go mbeidh laghdú arís ar an líon daoine óga a bheidh fé choimeád fé mar bhí le roinnt bhliain anuas.
Sé líon a bhí fé choimeád sa Scoil Bhuachaillí ar an Daingean ar an aonú lá triochad de mhí na Nollag, 1953, ná céad go leith buachaill, sé sin ceithre bhuachaill dhéag níos lú ná mar bhí fé choimeád bliain chothrom roimis sin.
Le roinnt bhliain anuas táthar tar éis cur, cuid mhaith, leis an bhfoirgneamh atá ar an Daingean. Is amhlaidh a tógadh dhá eite, eití ina bhfuil seomraí ranganna, seomraí collata, seomraí nigheacháin agus seomraí ceirde. Do críochnaíodh an tarna h-eite agus do chuathas ina seilbh timpeall dheireadh na bliana 1952 agus do tugadh cead le déanaí chun an chuid dheireannach den scéim tógála a chríochnú. Sí an chuid dheireannach san ná slí chónaithe a chur ar fáil dosna Bráithre atá ar an bhfoirinn, le cuid don seanfhoirgneamh a leagan agus leis an bhfaiche imeartha a dhéanamh cothrom.
I ngach ceann den dá Scoil Cheartúcháin atá ann i gcóir cailíní, i Luimneach agus i gCill Mo Chuda, bhí ceithre chailín dhéag fé choimeád ar an aonú lá triochad de mhí na Nollag, 1953.
Ins na Scoileanna Saothair sé líon a bhí fé choimeád ar an aonú lá triochad de mhí na Nollag, 1953, ná dhá mhíle, ceithre chéad, seachtó is a hocht (2,478) de bhuachaillí agus dhá mhíle, ocht gcéad triocha is a hocht (2,838) de chailíní. Cothrom an lae sin, an bhliain roimis sin, sé líon a bhí fé choimeád ná dhá mhíle cúig chéad seasca is a cúig (2,565) de bhuachaillí agus trí mhíle is a seacht (3,007) de chailíní.
Sa bhliain 1953 do ligeadh timpeall dhá mhíle is ceithre chéad (2,400) desna páistí abhaile ar saoire. Tá an Roinn sásta go ligeann na Bainisteoirí na páistí abhaile ins an uile chás inar féidir agus ina bhfuil san le leas an pháiste. Mí de laethibh saoire a tugtar go h-iondual.
Aon uair nárbh fhéidir nó nár cheart, i dtuairim an Bhainisteora, páistí a ligint abhaile ar saoire, do rinne an Bainisteoir riar chun turasanna aoibhnis bheith ann. Bhí ceithre cinn de Scoileanna a chur campa saoire ar fáil chois na faraige, agus tá Scoil eile Cailíní ann atá tar éis tigh cois faraige a fháil d'aon ghnó chun na páistí a thabhairt ann ar a saoire bhliantúil.
Níl aon athrú ann i mbliana ar Bhóta na Leabharlainne Náisiúnta ná ar Bhóta an Mhúsaeum. Sa soláthar atá déanta i gcoitinne i leith na Mír-Cheann éagsúil atá i Bhóta na hEolaíochta is na hEalaíon, níl d'athrú ann ach mion-sparáil anso is ansúd in áiteacha ina meastar nach mbeadh oiread chéanna airgid is a soláthraíodh anuraidh ag teastáil.
Deich míle, seacht gcéad púnt (£10,700) atá measta i mbliana don Áiléar Náisiúnta. Idir roinnt mionsparála agus cúntóir a chur leis an bhfoirinn chléireachais, tá £300 glan de mhéadú ann ar mheastachán na bliana so caite.
Is mór an chúis áthais dom é bheith le rá agam go ndeaghas i gcomhairle le déanaí le Gobharnóirí an Áiléir agus gur thoilíodar le fonn is le fáilte scéim a bhunú chun cuid dár seóda a thabhairt ar iasacht ó am go h-am do Bhéalfeirste. Ar thaobh Bhéalfeirste de, siad a bheidh i mbun an scéime ná Áiléar Ealaíon na Cathrach agus an Chomhairle chun ceol agus Ealaín a chur chun cinn.
Tá san Áiléar Náisiúnta roinnt seod-phictiúirí ná fuil a leithéid le fáil in aon bhall eile agus roinnt eile atá ana-luachmhar ar fad. Tuigfear dá réir sin cén sárchúram is gá bheith ann agus na pictiúirí úd á láimhseáil agus tuigfear gur mór ar fad an fhreagraíocht atá orthu súd go bhfuil na pictiúirí sin féna gcúram. Táim cinnte dá réir sin go mbeidh baill an Tighe seo ar aon fhocal sa tuairim gur fial an mhaise dosna Gobharnóirí an comhar atá acu á thabhairt sa scéim seo, scéim a bhearfaidh caoi do mhuintir Bhéalfeirste ar chuid desna seoda a fheiscint go bhfuil sé d'ádh orainne i mBaile Átha Cliath iad bheith nár seilbh.
Do réir an scéil, dhein an tAire Oideachais margadh le daoine áirithe anseo in Éirinn, daoine a bhí inniúil chun tuarastal maith a thuilleamh agus go raibh focal na Roinne acu go mbeadh an obair acu. Chuadar ar feadh dhá bliain ag foghluim céirde agus dúradh leo go mbeadh post le fáil acu i gceann tréimhse dhá bhliain. Anois, ar leathanach 16 den mheamram a léigh sé, tá an giota seo:—
"An mhí seo caite, mí Mheithimh, cuir i gcás, tá dachad duine de mhúinteoirí Adhmadóireachta tar éis a gcúrsa oiliúna a chríochnú. Astu san, tá fiche múinteoir a fuair oiliúint speisialta sa bhFoirgneolaíocht Thuaithe. Beidh focal fé leith agam le rá i gceann nóimeat nó dhó ina dtaobh súd. Tá fiche duine eile d'abhair múinteoirí Adhmadóireachta ar oiliúint fé láthair agus beidh a gcúrsa críochnaithe acu san i mí Mheithimh, naoi gcéad déag caoga is a sé. Go deimhin, do dheallródh sé go bhfuil an líon múinteoirí Adhmadóireachta i riocht dul anonn den méid postanna atá ann dóibh, ach má tharlaíonn san ní móide go mairfidh an scéal i bhfad mar sin."
Nuair a bheidh an tAire ag freagairt, ba cheart dó a innsint dúinn cad mar gheall ar na 20 siúinéirí a chuaigh ar scoil ar feadh dhá bhliain agus gur gealladh post dóibh ag deireadh an dá bhlian agus nach bhfuil aon phost le fáil acu anois.
Ní amháin gur olc an rud é brise gheill mar sin, ach is olc an rud do na daoine go bhfuil eolas bailithe acu ar feadh an dá bhlian seo caite go bhfuil orthu dul as an tír seo, mar airím go bhfuil.
The Minister spoke at length on the subject of his Department. It seems to me that he avoided certain matters that are of import and of interest at the moment. He referred to the building of primary schools—in which I am intensely interested. He pointed to the amount of money that has been set aside this year for the building of schools as a record. The amount of money set aside means nothing: the amount of schools built is what is important. I have seen moneys provided before for the building of schools, but I have not seen the schools built.
I understand from the Minister's speech that 53 primary schools have been built this year. There are at least 1,000 unfit for occupation. If we build at the rate of 53 per year, it will take 20 years to replace the 1,000 that are unfit for occupation, without doing anything to the other schools; and at the end of the 20 years there will be still 1,000 schools unfit for occupation by the children. The Minister should aim honestly at at least 100 primary schools a year. If he does not do that, we never will take up the slack of the unfit schools there are in this country.
I have seen schools that were built within comparatively recent years and some of those that have been repaired within comparatively recent years. Not merely will the Minister have to devise a scheme whereby there will be a greater output of schools—even though it may not be his direct responsibility, nevertheless he is the Minister for Education—but he will also have to devise a scheme whereby contractors who do not do their job properly shall be penalised by being put on a blacklist. I see too many schools that have been repaired, too many schools that have been built in comparatively recent years showing defects before many years have passed by.
I will not suggest that it was by way of boast that the Minister said that an attempt was being made to solve the problem of the shortage of teachers. It is a mere statement of fact, I suppose, to say that in three years time we shall have ten extra men teachers and 110 women teachers. That is not going to solve the problem. The Minister should have an examination made even here in Dublin—not to bother with the country—of the number of extraordinarily large classes which teachers are trying to handle. There are in this town of Dublin classes as large as 80. No teacher of any kind, no matter what his capacity, can deal with 80 children—he cannot deal with 40 children—and as long as that condition obtains we are not dealing with the educational system of this country.
There has been a good deal of publicity recently about corporal punishment in schools. If one were to judge by advertisement, newspaper letter and public speech, the teachers must be a rather savage breed, they must have very little concern or kindliness or gentleness for the proper care of children. The Minister must, in his reply, deal very clearly with the charges made. It is true, of course, that children are punished. I think it would be impossible to run a school if it were not within the authority and power of the teacher to punish the children properly. I think no school could be run without it. I believe that a lot of the complaints made are made by professional complainers. I believe there is some shadow of truth in the statement that at times undue punishment is given. The Minister has the complete answer to those who seek to make charges and he should take the opportunity of saying clearly what the action is that is taken by the Department when any report is made to them of undue punishment. I think parents should be reassured and these professional fanatics who make mountains out of molehills should be at least put back where they belong.
There is, of course, a type of school building other than the primary school building which is generally very well designed and regarded with envy by the local primary school teacher—the vocational school. There is to my mind a very unnecessary and foolish regulation in the Department of Finance which prevents a vocational committee from providing more than one school in any year. I know that in the County Limerick in the past few years there is a very urgent demand for a number of schools which are really needed. The vocational committee are willing and anxious to provide these schools, yet they are not being provided because of a regulation —an unwise regulation—of the Department of Finance. What is true in respect of the County Limerick is equally true of the County Meath and any other county.
The Minister may be an educationist, but the fact that a man is Minister for Education does not mean he is an educationist. I do not claim to be one, but I am not at all satisfied that the teaching of Irish in the schools is being properly handled. I doubt if the teaching of any language other than the home language in any of our schools is being done along the right lines. Continental languages are taught in the various secondary schools. Yet a child doing French for five or six years in a secondary school has no opportunity of getting into the Faculty of French in the National University except he or she has been to France.
What is true of French is true of Irish. The learning of book rules and the memorising of certain idioms and grammar will never teach a language. Teachers to whom I have spoken on the matter—and I have spoken to many— always talk about the structure of the language. The structure of the language must be learned, they say. To my mind, that is rubbish. I think the Minister would do well to do away with every Irish textbook in the school and ensure that the teachers speak Irish to the children in regard to the ordinary subjects. The children should be familiarised with Irish as a spoken language and if they get any grasp of spoken Irish there will be very little difficulty in teaching them the structure of the language.
The Minister talked about the Comhairle Oideachais and praised it highly. He said: "The first report of the council is, in my opinion, an outstanding contribution to our store of educational knowledge." He submitted it to various people, and "Replies to these invitations, which I greatly acknowledge, are in the course of receipt". What does "in the course of receipt" mean? Are they in the post? Is it possible that some people submitted and offered their opinions while others refused to commit themselves one way or another? If that is true, a postal receipt is as woolly as parts of the Report of the Council of Education.
The Minister spoke about the National Library. I think he said that no extra costs were being undertaken this year, no change this year in the Estimates for the National Library and the National Museum. The Minister and the senior officers of the Department of Education might make it their business to go on a tour of inspection of the National Library, when it might be brought home to them that there is a grave necessity for making further provision for the care of the valuable books and manuscripts in the library. It might be brought home to them that the cellar is not the place to look after valuable books, manuscripts and papers. I think it is high time for the Minister and his Government to attempt to make some provision for the further development of the National Library instead of criticising a former Government for intelligent expenditure.
What I have said about the National Library applies with equal force to the National Gallery. It is more than high time that something was done about the National Gallery. It is a place to be proud of. It stands comparison with the gallery of any city of equal size in the world. Again, our most valuable pictures are kept in the cellar because we have no room in the Gallery for them. I will not refer to any recent threat to the Gallery except to say that we have—I believe through the good offices of the Minister—preserved a place beside the Gallery where there can be a proper extension.
Let us not apply to educational and cultural questions the same standard as the church gate or cross-roads orator applies to the price of tea and sugar. It is time that some money was spent on education and it is time that some serious and realistic view should be taken of the problems of the National Gallery, the National Library and the National Museum. Will the Minister take it?
I was faint-hearted about rising because I do not speak the national language. Nevertheless, I was glad to hear the debate carried on here in Irish from both sides of the House and I must compliment the Minister and the former Minister on their good Irish. Even I, with my halting Irish, could follow the discussion in the main.
In the matter of education, I have noticed in reading the Dáil debates that it is nearly always the professionals who take part in these debates —meaning school teachers or former Ministers. In any case, I have something to say about this as a Deputy, as a parent and as a citizen. I read in the Irish Independent of 3rd June, 1955, a leading article under the heading “Unfairness in Examinations”. It points out that over 8,000 boys and girls sat for the Leaving Certificate in 1952 and that of the boys 82.5 per cent. passed and of the girls 85 per cent. That seemed a reasonable assumption, but we find, for instance, that only 67.8 per cent. of the boys who took English passed in that subject and only 55.7 per cent. of the girls. “What is the explanation of this startling discrepancy?” the article asks. It says: “Here is the extraordinary position”. It says that 32.2 per cent. of the boys and 44.3 per cent. of the girls would have failed in the subject of English. “Equally clearly,” it says, “it is not the teachers' fault; their standard of teaching, we are told, is generally ‘high’”, and later says that “the inevitable conclusion is disturbing”. “These figures,” it says, “constitute a gross injustice to the schools, the teachers and the pupils. The dice is loaded against the students who take English as a subject.”
That is a responsible newspaper, and that is an extraordinary statement if it is true. I would like the Minister to take a note of it and I should like to hear his comment on it. I will now deal briefly with something that a great many people are hypocrites about, and it is the Irish language. I have met people who go out and tell the public that they are all for it, that they are the true evangelists of it, but they come and tell me and tell their friends that they do not believe in it.
I will now try to review what was done to restore the language more than 30 years ago. The Government of the day went for an all-out drive. I am not going to use the words "compulsory Irish", because everything in school is compulsory. You have to use compulsion to teach boys and girls arithmetic if they do not want to learn it. But essential Irish is the point. Boys and girls could not get positions— to use the right word they could not get jobs—unless they had Irish. It was then used as a stumbling block. That may have seemed all right at the time, but in the light of what has happened in the last 30 years I do not think it was all right. It was put there and it was a stumbling block to many brilliant boys and girls in obtaining positions. In lots of cases, they were not able to qualify for professions; in other cases, they were not able to obtain positions and many of them had to leave the country. Of course, fanatical evangelists of the Irish language will say that it served them right.
This drive continued, and we then came to the advent of Fianna Fáil. Fianna Fáil took it up and drove it even harder, so that one must have Irish. Irish was essential and what was the result? It appeared then as a kind of sacred bull on the platforms throughout the country; it was dragged around the hustings. I have heard the comments of the people about it, and there was this constant repetition so that it became a kind of mockery to the people. The people did not believe it. In any case, a lot of people did believe it although a lot of people were very sincere and are very sincere.
Then there was an occasion that I remember. As Deputies know I come from the constituency of Waterford. A very upsetting thing happened. When the office of Leas-Cheann Comhairle was to be filled in 1938, the Opposition of the time submitted the name of General Seán MacEoin as a fit and proper person to be Leas-Cheann Comhairle. That name would not do because General Seán MacEoin was not considered to have a competent knowledge of Irish. That was following the line that had been promised on public platforms, and General Seán MacEoin was rejected. There was no use in saying that he was the blacksmith of Ballinalee; there was no use in saying that he had a great national record. He had not a competent knowledge of the Irish language and, therefore, he was not a fit and proper person to be Leas-Cheann Comhairle.
Comh fada agus is cuimhin liom níl focal firinne sa scéal sin.
I give that as an example as to how the people may have been discouraged or their fathers may have been shot. Only a few weeks afterwards, the name of a gentleman with no political affiliations was put forward for the Chairmanship of the Seanad and there was a nominee put forward by the Fianna Fáil Party. The nominee put forward by the Fianna Fáil Party could not be called a great Irish scholar. He admitted that he had not great competence in the language. Now, mark you, the gentleman that he defeated was not a member of a political Party. The gentleman was Fear Mór and he was rejected.
I do not think that these activities have anything to do with the Vote for the Department of Education. The Minister is not responsible for appointments made by the Oireachtas.
And the correct name is "An Fear Mór."
That is the way you get it, and that is the intolerance.
There is no intolerance.
When I said Fear Mór, two Irish words, they came light on my lips.
"An Fear Mór" is the name that he is known by all over the country.
He was not known to the Fianna Fáil people that day. They did not know his name and did not pronounce it. However, that was a shattering blow. Now, we have spent, I will not say money, because money would not count in this, but great effort was put into the revival movement. Rivers and oceans of tears have been shed by the children. I must give it to the teachers and say that thousands of their pupils who leave school every year can speak Irish and write Irish, but they will not speak it after they leave school. I think it is only right that I should say that. It is a fact.
I think that the object of the Minister—and I know he is sincere in it— is that Irish should become a living language and should be spoken in the towns and in the cities and in the pubs and in every place it is possible to speak it, and whether it is great Irish or not. I consider that if there was less force behind the effort in the schools, if Irish was not made the great imposition that it is being made—and, mark you, it is an imposition on children who are not bright—and if there was more oral Irish taught the chance of success would be greater. I do not agree—and I am not afraid to say so— with teaching through the medium; it confuses the children. It is all right for the bright children, but if these children went through their primary and secondary stages and left school able to speak Irish reasonably well—I do not say it is necessary for them to be able to write Irish well and know the grammar—literacy in the language would come afterwards.
The great thing is that they would have more love for the language than the children who are leaving school now. I know I shall be criticised about this, but I think it should be said. If I am allowed, I shall repeat that children leaving school do not appear to have a love for the language because they do not use it after leaving school. That is a fact.
I wish to refer to another aspect which is a teaching aspect. There are many fine people among the teachers of Irish, and all the teachers in the country must be qualified to teach Irish. I have found some teachers fanatical and intolerant and hard about it; I have found more of them who only look upon it as something that they are paid for; and I have found others, the true idealists, the men who would teach it under the hedges for nothing. Unfortunately there is not enough of the latter kind.
I would say to the Minister after 33 years and after all the drive and force that was expended, we should have had a better result. We have not had it; therefore, we must examine the whole machinery, and it is about time that it was done. Perhaps we are too intolerant and too insular, and perhaps we look into ourselves too much. In this nation's greatest day, when we were looked up to as "the Island of Saints and Scholars" the teachers were not looking into themselves but were going out into the world, and with the aid of an international language they were able to spread the light of Christianity through the whole of Western Europe. As a matter of fact, now that it strikes me, but for them the Irish language would not have been preserved at all, because it was through them and through the Latin language that we recovered our Irish grammar. We should remember these things. I would say—and I confess I know very little Irish—if the people who know a good deal of Irish were a little more tolerant and if we who know a little Irish used it oftener without being corrected and jumped on by the scholars the Irish language would come to life.
There is another matter I want to speak about. A pamphlet entitled Punishment in Our Schools was issued by some mysterious people with a number of anonymous letters in it. This holds up the teachers of Ireland to be a crowd of sadistic wretches who seem to glory in the torturing and beating of the children. I saw that this was replied to in some of our newspapers and replied to very well. I would like to say, as a Deputy, that I have every trust in the teachers and if the teachers punish the pupils, probably the pupils deserve it, and probably it is for the good of the pupils. Of late years punishment seems to have gone out of fashion in the schools. Some people say: “Thank God for that”; but, of course, you could carry things too far. The parents are afraid of the children and the children come back to the parents and make the parents go to threaten the teachers, and the teachers are afraid to discipline the children and can only offer to teach them. If the children refuse or do not react to the teaching—well, they do not do so well in the examinations and their mammas then blame the Department of Education, the teachers and goodness knows whom.
I think parents should have more trust in teachers and in the Department of Education and in our own schools because they are our own schools. The thing becomes important in this way: young people are going out into the world every year into jobs and a large number of them are not able to hold the jobs—I know that as a Deputy, and many other Deputies in the House will bear me out—because they have never been in the habit of doing what they are told at home or in school, and when they go out into jobs the foreman is a so-and-so, the supervisor a villain, and they cannot stand it and they have to go.
Parents will have to take the decision themselves to entrust their children to the teachers' care without reserve. Parents are also throwing the onus of the entire education of children on the Department and on the teachers. When I say that, I mean you have people who say—and I have heard it said myself—"they are not teaching them any manners in the schools." In the old-fashioned days in this country we were taught manners at home. I suppose when the parents are not bothering to shoulder their obligations the teachers will have to do it. I would like to hear some other words used besides Irish words. I would like to hear words such as "sir" occasionally used when boys address their elders. I would also like the old-fashioned words, such as "please" and "thank you" to come back. We are losing some of our ordinary good manners and some of the chivalry of our people. If you travel on a Dublin bus nowadays and stand up to allow a lady or an old gentleman to sit down it is a matter of great amusement to everybody in the bus, young and old.
I want to congratulate the Minister and all his predecessors on the great job they have done in building schools. There will always be, or perhaps for the next couple of years anyway, there will be people complaining about such and such a school not being fit for dogs to be in, and so on. There were thousands of those schools and they have been disappearing as often as any human effort could make them disappear. Going through the country I have noticed that. I would also like to compliment the Department of Education on the wonderful new designs and the careful planning they have carried out when building new schools.
As regards the National Gallery, Deputy Seán Moylan mentioned that a great number of valuable pictures were in the cellars and he suggested that there should be a wing added to the gallery to provide for them. I would suggest to the Minister that some of these pictures be sent to various centres down the country from time to time and exhibited in the many fine public halls we have. There is a precedent for this. There was an exhibition of contemporary art which was sent on tour, fully insured, with people who knew how to handle it. The pictures were exhibited in Kilkenny, Waterford, Cork, Limerick and Galway. I would also say to the Minister that the same thing would apply to the National Museum. There are some wonderful treasures in the National Museum that can never be exhibited because there is no room there. These treasures would have certain local affiliations for people in certain areas and whenever centres down the country can offer halls or places where they could be exhibited, the Minister should consider having these treasures taken from their dungeons and displayed where the people can see them.
I suppose it is only natural that every country Deputy would say when any kind of bad conduct occurs that it always occurs in Dublin. Deputy Lynch, in referring to the matter of courtesy when travelling, specifically referred to our citizens here.
Allow me to say that it has happened to me on buses all over the country.
I am glad that Dublin is not singled out. With a great deal of what the Deputy said the ordinary, normal person in this House must be in absolute agreement. I hope my few words on this Vote will dispense with what has become something of a custom on the part of some of the Deputies of preparing a very short speech in Irish at great pains, delivering that and then proceeding in English. I do not think that adds anything to the welfare of the language movement or to the learning of Irish. Like many others of my age group, I think the Irish language is a wonderful thing but I have bitter memories, as many others have, of attempts having been made by teachers, who have been generously described as fanatical in the pursuit of their objective of trying to make Irish a spoken language—I presume that is what they were aiming at —literally to thrust Irish down my throat. I am quite certain many thousands of students in other years— I do not know about nowadays—have had the same experience.
It is not on that kind of foundation that the Irish language will be revived. How can anybody defend teaching subjects through the medium of Irish to students who have not grasped the Irish language? Yet, as I have seen on many occasions, when a public representative asks a question in this connection or suggests that that is the wrong approach, he is made out to be a traitor to the national cause.
I remember in my first year in a secondary school under the Christian Brothers being told for the first time about geometry, by no means a simple subject—Céimseata it was called. I think it took me a couple of months to understand what that was. I remember my attempts to learn Euclid through the medium of Irish, a language which I did not properly understand at the time. The result is, I do not mind admitting, I know nothing about geometry or Euclid.
In later years I did get an opportunity of learning Irish when I was a guest of Deputy Boland, the then Minister for Justice, during the war, as an internee. With many hundreds of others I found that by not knowing Gaelic we were missing something very valuable, that in learning Irish for the love of it we were opening our minds to a field wherein many gems were to be found. We were finding it possible to explore the vast wealth of Irish lore which can compare with that of any other language in the world in its richness, fullness and beauty. But I and others like me only learned that because of the fact that an opportunity was thrust upon us very much against our will of mixing with people who spoke Irish every day and at all times.
The former Minister for Education, Deputy Moylan, put his finger on a very important point when he said that it is almost useless and almost a complete waste of time to be trying to drive into the minds of children details of the structure and grammatical construction of Irish before they become familiar with the use of Irish as a medium of everyday conversation. It is quite plain to be seen, and indeed it is proved by everybody's experience, that, so far as English is concerned, the child that is sent to school from a home where English is ordinarily used in a correct fashion will make progress in English swiftly, will develop into a very good student of English and will at a later stage be able to assimilate the fundamentals upon which that language is based. That child will be able to understand the construction of the language principally because of the fact that he or she has learned the language at home.
The lesson we have to learn is that we will not secure the restoration of the language as the national language in the fullest sense—something most of us would wish to see achieved—until such time as we can develop a love for the language and a regard for the language as against the attitude which now exists towards it and as against what has been described quite correctly by Deputy Lynch and others, not on this occasion but in previous years, as a fear and a detestation of Irish on the part of many of the children attending our schools. Now that should not be the position and it is tragic to have to admit that that is the case.
Teaching subjects through the medium of Irish to children who do not understand Irish is a travesty. It is an injustice to the children. It is a handicap which very often has most damaging effects upon them in adult life when they move out to fight the battle of existence and try to win their place in competition with others. I do not suppose that the few words I have said will make much impression on the policy which has been followed all down the years. As I said, anybody who tries to offer a concrete suggestion as against the old conservative idea which has been accepted almost as part of our gospel here, namely, that Irish must be forced on the children at all costs and, not alone that, but that every subject we can possibly inflict upon them through Irish will be so inflicted upon them, is immediately dubbed a national enemy.
Much more damage has been done to the cause of restoring the language by public figures making it the tailpiece of every political speech for the past 30 years. That has done more damage than any other single factor. It has become a kind of rule amongst certain public figures when in doubt and when they run out of ideas or words and cannot think of anything else to talk about to bring up the subject of restoring the language. The subject has become almost hackneyed. The result is that people are sick and tired of it. What a tragedy that is!
I do not know if it is a realistic approach on our part to try to visualise a situation here when only Irish will be spoken. I think the best we can possibly hope to achieve is a position wherein Irish will be the spoken language but English will also be a spoken language; English will be needed in trade and commerce and in the running of the country. It might have been possible 50 years ago to strive towards eradicating English completely. That situation might have been possible then. It is not possible now. Countries are not as remote now as they were even 20 years ago. The improvement in modern transport and the shortening of the time it takes to travel from one country to another and from one side of the world to another forces us to the realisation that it is a definite advantage for our citizens to have some language in common use throughout the world.
While keeping in mind, therefore, the ideal of reviving Irish and making it the spoken language because we are proud of our heritage in that respect, we must not lose our heads, or pretend to lose our heads, in our effort to blind the people to other important matters merely by talking about the language on any and every occasion. Let us try now to promote a love of Irish. That can be done by making the people interested in it. Great credit is due to many voluntary organisations who are doing that throughout the country. Admittedly, some of the older ones have become almost as authoritarian as the State, but in recent years groups of individuals have got together with the right idea; they want to promote Irish by infusing into the people a love of Irish. In no other way will it be possible for us to secure the speaking of Irish generally throughout the country.
A question has often been asked as to why more use is not made of the Irish language in this Assembly. I freely admit now that I would need to read the Minister's speech three or four times before I could get a grasp of many parts of it or understand the points made in it. Naturally a person who speaks Irish daily and who has developed the habit of thinking in Irish can take up a detailed and involved document, such as the Minister's speech, and stand up here and make a comprehensive reply in Irish. Anybody can stand up and utter half a dozen words or a few sentences in Irish. Deputies can write them down and memorise them, but that will not be any contribution to the promotion of Irish. Those who criticise Deputies for not using Irish here forget one important fact: any Deputy who tries to do his work as a representative of the people will have very little time for practising Irish. The people whom he represents throughout the country do not use Irish. Only a very few will answer you in Irish if you salute them in Irish. The ordinary Deputy's life is so full of duties, obligations and responsibilities that he has no time to go to classes or to social gatherings for the purpose of practising his Irish and those who had a speaking knowledge of the language have lost their facility through lack of practice.
This Parliament in so far as Irish is concerned reflects the condition of the nation generally. Indeed it reflects the condition of the nation generally. Indeed it reflects the condition of the nation in almost every aspect of its life. Very often these people who seem to have so much time on their hands that they can write to the papers criticising the Dáil for not using more Irish do not realise that in reality they are criticising themselves. There would be no use whatever in Deputies getting up here and uttering a few sentences in Irish and then continuing their speeches in English. That would not make one iota of difference to the promotion of the language; indeed it would be just another little bit of hypocrisy to add to the veil of hypocrisy in which the approach to the language has been shrouded over a long number of years.
The Irish language is not the personal property of any member of this House, or of any politician in this country, or of any Party. No matter how a person votes in election times, if he or she has the blood of the Gael running in their veins at all, there is a love of things Irish born and bred in them. Even the basis of their English speech, the method in which they use the English language, is indication enough that our race is distinct and that even our processes of thought have been distinct all through the centuries. How often do we find people who do not know a word of Irish using an almost identical translation in English of Irish phases, and how often do we find spoken bad English which might be most excellent Irish? There is that natural leaning towards Irish in the minds of everybody in this country.
It is true that because of the manner in which we have handled the revival of Irish, because of this stress upon compulsion, because of our lack of adequate study of the child mind, we have not succeeded in our aim, and, mind you, although I do not know about nowadays, when I was going to school not too long ago stark terror was very often part of my life and of the lives of many of the children with whom I went to school.
Perhaps it was necessary.
Perhaps, but I do not think terror is a good thing in anybody's life. I mean terror, not respect for the teacher, but absolute terror of physical punishment for not having our homework done. That is not to say that there is any real reason for any of this nonsense about which we read in the papers and which involves wholesale criticism of teachers. There will be exceptional misfits in the teaching profession as in every other profession or walk of life, just like there are in politics. There will always be misfits but a misfit in the teaching profession, or a disinterested teacher, or a disappointed or a disgruntled or a dissatisfied teacher, can do infinitely more harm to the people at large than can a person in practically any other occupation.
No. The problem that we face will require a complete change in our attitude; we must change our methods for the promotion of Irish. Are we going to lift away this compulsion and try to start, even in a small way at the beginning, to induce a love of Irish in the minds of the children, to make it attractive for them to speak on the streets? It is a very rare thing, a very, very rare thing, to find in this city or anywhere outside the Gaeltacht children talking Irish at all, after, as has been said, 33 years of intensive compulsion. Thirty-three years is surely long enough to try out any policy. The policy we have followed up to now as far as the revival of Irish is concerned has been an absolute failure. We have got to try something new and I say let us find some way of inculcating Irish by methods other than those which we have tried unsuccessfully.
That is all I have to say about the Irish language. I want to make just one other reference. It is to the provision of vocational schools in the city. I am certain the present Minister is aware of the very great need that exists in the City of Dublin for more accommodation for children who are anxious to learn trades or to be trained for business careers. Quite a common thing in the existing system of vocational training in the city is to refuse admission to hundreds of would-be students each year, and I am sure Deputies will have observed themselves that in parts of the city where there are technical schools, thousands of students are waiting to enrol each year on the dates when students are required to enrol in these schools. I think that is a matter of paramount importance— that we would have much more accommodation for intending vocational students.
My particular interest in this is because of the fact that in the constituency which Deputy Burke, Deputy Rooney and myself represent, is the largest and most thickly populated parish almost in the world. I am talking about Ballyfermot, where there are 36,000 people. I am told by those responsible for the education of the children in that district that it is estimated that within a period of four years there will be an average of 1,000 juveniles leaving schools and coming on the labour market—1,000 per year when four years have elapsed. It is very important that those children, or as many of them as possible, should be provided with the opportunity of learning a trade or of being trained for the occupation of their choice.
We have not as yet secured vocational schools in the Ballyfermot area. We have there the most excellent school manager possible, I suppose, and I would ask that the Minister would look specially into this matter because the circumstances are unique. There is no district like it, not alone in Ireland but throughout the world; there are few districts throughout the world where the problem is so accentuated. I do not expect the Minister to reply in connection with that item when concluding but I would be very glad if some time in the near future he would give me his views as regards the provision of vocational schools in that district.
I do hope, however, he will give us the benefit of his views in regard to the Irish language and I hope that in the course of his concluding remarks he will give us some hope of progress in the future because, as I say, at the moment we seem to be at a complete standstill. The revival of Irish is not progressing. The reverse is rather the case and that trend can only be arrested and progress can only be achieved by a completely new approach on our part and on the part of educationists who are concerned with the problem of the restoration of the language in the ordinary everyday speech of our people.
Is dóigh liom go raibh a lán don cheart ag Stiúrthóir Chomhdháil Náisiúnta na Gacilge nuair dúirt sé go raibh a lán éadóchais sa tír faoi cheist aithbheochaint na Gaeilge— nach raibh an Chomhdháil ro-shásta leis an dul chun cinn a bhí déanta. Deir an Stiúrthóir nach raibh na daoine óga dá stiúrú i gceart ag a sinsear nó ag a dtuismitheoirí, b'fhéidir. Deir sé nach raibh na daoine go bhfuil údarás agus cumhacht acu sa tír i gcúrsaí oideachais ag déanamh a ndóthain chun na daoine óga a spreagadh agus a ghríosadh chun an teanga a labhairt agus a úsáid. Níl an locht mar gheall ar sin ar an Aire nó ar an Roinn. Tá sé fíor, ceapaim, nach bhfuil an grá ceart ag páistí scoile ar aon ábhar scoile, agus taispeánann agus cruthaíonn, b'fhéidir, na tuairiscí a gheibhímid agus a chloisimid ó dhaoine údarásacha go ndeintear faillí nuair a téitear taobh amuigh den tír seo, gan bacaint le pé rud a dheineann siad 'nár measc, go ndeineann siad faillí i gcúrsaí níos tábhachtaí ná ceist na teangan, cé go gceapaimid agus go bhfuilimid ag súil le go bhfuair siad bun-oideachas maith agus bun-oideachas Críostúil agus bun-oideachas a mhúnlódh iad chun dul ar bhealach a leasa agus deashampla do thabhairt do dhaoine eile agus gan ainm agus clú na tíre seo a leigint síos ach, do réir dealraimh, táid á leigint agus is dócha nach bhfuil an chuid is mó díobh ró-shean agus nach bhfuil sé ró-fhada ó d'fhág siad scoil.
Níl an locht ar an Aire ná ar an Roinn ná ar na múinteoirí. B'fhéidir go bhfuil cuid den locht ar na tuismithcoirí. Ins an slí céanna, sílim go bhféadaimís a rá—agus sílim go bhfuil an ceart ag an Teachta Ó Maoláin— mara bhféadaimis comhaontú fháil ó na tuismitheoirí agus mara bhfaghann na páistí grá don teanga sa bhaile, is deacair bheith ag súil le na múinteoirí, fiú amháin na daoine is díoghraisí díobh, an Ghaeilge do mhúineadh go maith mar ábhar scoile, an teanga do mhúineadh mar ábhar scoile agus, san am chéadna, grá don teanga a ghríosadh i gcroí an pháiste, muna bhfuil aon chuidiú, aon chúnamh eile le fáil aca ó thúismitheoirí agus na daoine a chaitheann an páiste a shaol ina measc an chuid is mó den lá agus dá shaol. Ní chaitheann sé ach roint uair a chloig ar scoil agus caitheann sé an chuid is mó den lá agus den oíche i measc comhluadar eile agus tá an comhluadar sin go minic ag obair i gcoinne na h-iarrachtaí a deintear i dtaobh na Gaeilge agus ag obair i gcoinne na h-iarrachtaí a dheineann an páiste é féin.
Is mar gheall air sin go bhfuil an riachtanas ann i dtaobh na Gaeilge mar tá an t-ualach trom, gan amhras, agus tá an obair atá le déanamh, an cuspóir atáimid ag iarraidh a shroisint agus tá sé níos deacra shroisint ar an chuspóir sin anseo ná atá sé i dtíortha eile. Náisiún beag atá anseo againne. Ní'l ach 3,000,000 daoine againn sa Stáid seo agus tá na céadta milliún ar an taobh eile den aigéan, chomh maith lenár gcomharsa, ag labhairt agus ag scríobhadh agus ag cur leabhair agus páipéirí chugainn agus ag baint úsáid as an radio agus an television agus gach uile úirlís chun an teanga gallda do chur ar aghaidh.
Gan amhras, is mór an áis é go bhfuil an méid sin déanta againn agus atá. Admhaítear ag daoine a bhfuil suim acu sa cheist, pé tuairim atá acu fé mhúineadh na Gaeilge, go bhfuil an Ghaeilge go maith ag an chuid is mó de na páistí scoile ag fágáil na scoile dóibh agus tá an moladh ag dul, admhaítear, do na múinteoiri, go bhfuil an chuid is mó den obair ag braith ar na múinteoirí agus ar na scoileanna. Mura mbeadh go bhfuil na cáilíochta go maith ag na múinteoirí agus murar féachadh chuige sin ag gach Rialtas ó tháinig Rialtas Gaelach anseo, conas a bhéadh an scéal anois faoi cheist na Gaeilge?
Ní smaoineann daoine ar chonus a bhéadh an scéal marach go ndearnadh na rudaí a rinneadh agus na cois-céimeanna a shiúlamar ins na 30 bliana atá thart.
Tá dhá rud ana-thábhachtacha, is dóigh liom, i dtaobh ceist na Gaeilge sna scoileanna. An chéad rud, deintear tagairt dó go mion-minic agus tá sé scruduithe agus ath-scruduithe, is dócha sa Roinn, ach, mar sin féin, ós rud é go gceapann an pobal, do réir an chaint a chloisimid anseo indiu, agus a lán de na gnáth-dhaoine, mar a deirtear gur ceart luí nios mó le labhairt na Gaeilge agus gan bacaint an méid sin le gramadach, sílim gur mó an truaigh nach féidir socrú a dhéanamh i gcóir scrúdú béil sna meanscoileanna. Tuigim na deacrachtaí atá ann ach, tar éis bheith ag siormhachtnamh ar an scéal, ba dhóigh leat go mbeadh lucht na Roinne i n-ann scéim a mholadh a bhféadfaí na fadhbanna faoin méid ama agus an saghas ceisteanna ionas go mbeadh gach rud cothrom, a réitiú agus scéim a bheith ann, fiu amháin mura mbeadh sé riachtanach ar gach dalta ins na meanscoileanna, ar aon chuma go ndéanfaí iarracht, diaidh ar ndiaidh, scrúdú béil nó ócáid éigin do sholáthar in a mbeadh na daltaí sna meanscoileanna i n-ann a theaspáint cén méid Gaeilge a bhí acu agus a theaspáint trí obair béil, cén méid a d'fhoghluim siad sna meanscoileanna.
Tá's againn go léir go luightear go mór ar na scrúdúcháin, go bhfuil siad níos tábhachtaí anois ná ariamh, go bhfuil an-chomórtas agus go bhfuil na scrúdúcháin an-dian ar na daltaí ach má táimid i n-dairiribh fén Ghaeilge do chur ar aghaidh mar theanga labhartha, is dóigh liom go mbeidh orainn machnamh arís ar an scéal fé scrúdú béil ins an Ghaeilge agus féachaint an bhféadfaí in aon chor na fadhbanna sin a réitiú agus muinín agus misneach a thabhairt do na daltaí a chaitheann am sna scoileanna Gaeilge nó sna ranganna in a dtugtar an-chúram do labhairt na Gaeilge agus a theaspáint go mbeidh rud éigin acú ag an deireadh, cruthúnas éigin agus comhartha éigin b'fhéidir, ó'n Roinn a chuideos leo sa tsaol. Bheadh níos mó ann ná duais acadiúl, go mbeadh úsáid ann sna teastasaí eile a tugtar.
Ansin mar gheall ar na scoileanna gairm-oideachais, níor dhein an tAire aon trácht ar cheist na Gaeilge, mórán, sna scoileanna sin ach amháin go bhfuil siad ag oiliúint múinteoirí, go háirithe—múinteoirí céimithe in a measc—mar mhúinteoirí Gaeilge sna gairm-scoileanna. Níor deineadh an méid céanna oibre ar son na Gaeilge sna gairm-scoileanna, ó thús, is a deineadh ins na bun-scoileanna agus sna meán-scoileanna agus bhí líon maith riaráistí le déanamh suas. Nuair a bhí Rialtas Shasana i réim anseo bhí múinteoirí ag obair sa tír seo ag múineadh na Gaeilge agus dheineadar mórán oibre. Bhí daoine breátha ina measc agus nuair a tharla an t-athrú Rialtais ní dóigh liom gur deineadh stuidéar ró mhaith ar cheist na Gaeilge sna gairm-scoileanna agus ar na coiscéim ba chóir a thógaint chun teanga na Gaeilge do chur ar aghaidh sna gairm-scoileanna chomh maith leis na scoileanna eile. Ansin, bhí ar an Roinn múinteoirí d'oilúint go speisialta. Sé mo thuairim go raibh múinteoirí óga ar cheann de na cuspóirí a bhí i gceist ansin. Na daoine nua a bheadh ag teacht isteach sa Seirbhís, bheadh siad in ann an obair do dhéanamh sna scoileanna gairm-oideachais díreach mar a dhein na sean-mhúinteoirí taistil é, ach níos fearr. Ar aon chuma do bhí sé mar chuspóir go mbeadh an spiorad céanna ann agus an díogras chéanna acu is a bhí ag na sean-mhúinteoirí taistil nuair a bhí orthu na daltaí do bhailiú leo féin chun na ranganna agus nuair a dheineadar mórán deá-oibre chun an Gaeilge do choimeád beo in éadan cuid mhaith deacrachtaí. Bhí gach rud ina gcoinne ach, bíodh sin mar atá, d'éirigh leo go h-an mhaith cé ná raibh cáilíochtaí an-árd ag cuid acu go minic ó thaobh oideachais oilscoile, agus ar uile. Do bhí an spiorad acu agus bhí an spiorad ag na daltaí sna ranganna.
Sé mo thuairim go mbo mhór an truagh é, san am seo den lá é, dá bhféadfadh daoine teacht isteach ins na scoileanna gairm-oideachais, agus go háirithe dá mbéadh siad ina árdmháistrí, muna mbeadh an Ghaeilge acu. Fé mar adúirt stiúrthóir in obair na teanga, muna dtugaimid deá shampla agus má ligimid daoine gan cáiliochtaí sa nGaeilge agus daoine nach bhfuil oilte sa nGhaeilge, chun bheith, mar shampla, in a árd-mháistrí, ní féidir linn dul ar aghaidh leis an obair. Taispeánann sé nach bhfuil comhaontacht san Roinn mar gheall ar na scoileanna agus nach bhfuilimíd ag dul chun cinn sna gairm-scoileanna chomh maith agus atáimid, 'sé mo thuairim, sna bun-scoileanna agus sna mean-scoileanna agus taispeánann sé nach bhfuilimíd seasmhach ins na céimeanna táimid ag iarraidh a dhéanamh sna scoileanna éagsúla sin.
Ceapaim go bhfuil sé riachtannach ag na príomh-oifigigh sna coistí gairm-oideachais an Ghaeilge do bheith go maith acu nuair a toghtar iad. Bhéadh an-íonadh orm a chlos go dtoghtar daoine, san lá atá inniú ann, mar phríomh oifigigh más rud é nach bhfuil siad in ann gach rud a dhéanamh tré Ghaeilge. Bíodh is go bhfuil cuid acu go maith agus go han-mhaith, tá daoine eile díobh agus is eagal liom, cé go bhfuil na cáiliochta acu, nach bhfuil an méid a mbéimís ag súil leis uathu d'á dhéanamh acu.
Mar gheall ar phríomh-mháistrí sna gairm-scoileanna, is é mo thuairim go bhfuil na postanna sin níos tábhachtaí ná na postanna le haghaidh príomh-oifigigh. Tá siad ag plé leis na daltaí gach lá agus gach uile uair sa ló agus ansin tá an fhoireann mhúinteoirí ann, freisin. Má chíonn na múinteoirí go n-árdaightear daoine thar a gceann— daoine gan cáilíochta a bheith aca sa nGaeilge nó fiú suim a bheith acu sa nGaeilge—is olc an rud ar fad é. Tá mé cinnte go n-aontódh an tAire liom gur dochar mór do chúis na Gaeilge é, chomh maith le dochar don obair atá na múinteoirí óga a d'iarraidh a dhéanamh chun an atmosféar Gaelach a leathnú sna gairm-scoileanna. Ní féidir dearmad a dhéanamh ar an phointe seo do chur in a luí orthu: gurb í an chuspóir atá romhainn ná an Ghaeilge do leathnú agus nuair a bhí Rialtais Shasanacha i bhfeidhm anseo go raibh múineadh na Gaeilge mar short aguisín sna gairm-scoileanna agus go bhfuil le déanamh ag na múinteoirí san lá atá inniú ann sna gairm-scoileanna sin ná leathnú amach ar an obair sin a bhí á dhéanamh ag na sean-mhúinteoirí agus leathnú amach ar an obair i gcoiteann atá ar siúl sna scoileanna. Táimid ag brath ar na múinteoirí óga chun an obair sin do dhéanamh agus chun í do chur chun críoch.
Má fheiceann na múinteoirí óga sin atá i seirbhís na ngairm-scoileanna daoine ag dul ar aghaidh sa tseirbhís agus gan na cáilíochta acu a bhféadfá a bheith ag súil leo uatha, cuireann sé éadóchas orthu. Do bhéadh sé sin maith go leor i gcás daoine a bhí sa tseirbhís nuair a tháinig an Rialtas Gaelach i réim agus bhéadh sé maith go leor i gcás daoine a tháinig isteach sa tseirbhís cúpla bliain indiaidh sin ach tá scéal nua ann anois. Is dócha go bhfuil, b'fhéidir, a leath de na túismitheoirí sa tír seo inniu in ann roinnt Gaeilge a mhúineadh dá gcuid páistí—Gaeilge a d'fhoghluim siad féin ar scoil. Do cheapfá ná tógfadh siad san aon leithscéal, i gcás ceapúcháin duine le haghaidh post mar phríomhmháistir, mar shompla, agus nach mbeadh siad sásta muna mbéadh sé lán cáilaithe i ngach slí i dtaobh na Gaeilge.
If Deputy Dunne or anybody interested in this question of teaching through Irish will look at the Report of the Council of Education he will find that the matter is clearly explained and, in fact, it has been explained here by the Minister recently in reply to a question by Deputy de Valera. At the risk of occupying the time of the House unnecessarily, I think it is no harm to put on record once more what is quoted at paragraph 229 of the Report of the Council of Education:—
"229. In 1926 the National Programme Conference set out the following directions to govern the use of Irish as a teaching medium:—
‘Where a teacher is competent to teach through Irish, and where the children can assimilate the instruction so given, the teacher should endeavour to extend the use of Irish as a medium of instruction as far as possible.
When these conditions do not exist, such teaching through Irish is not obligatory.'"
The Council of Education is satisfied with that policy. There is a minority report signed by three members of another view, but the majority of the council, at paragraph 75 of the summary on page 278, say:—
"The majority of the council favour the use of Irish as a medium of instruction in standards above infants where the conditions prescribed at present for such use are fulfilled, namely, that the teacher is competent to teach through Irish and that the pupils can assimilate the instructions so given."
With regard to the infant classes, they said:—
"The teaching of English as a subject to be obligatory for one half-hour daily in infant classes in schools outside the Irish speaking districts, no change being recommended in the present practice in schools in these districts."
The Minister has not given us any account in his opening statement of the views of the Department or the reports of the inspectors as to the work in schools, and I do not know whether the Minister considers that the report of the Council of Education gives the information, but I think that perhaps the number who will read through the report is rather limited in order to find the particular points in which they are interested, and on this occasion of the yearly review one would have expected that the Minister would have made at least the usual reference to the work in the primary schools in particular. In the past, as he will remember, an anxiety was often displayed that the reports of the inspectors, which may not always, I admit, be practicable, should be published. Failing that, perhaps he would consider giving us in his reply some summary of their views as to the work, the standards of work in the schools and whether they are satisfied with the results that are being achieved and other points that members of the Dáil might be interested in.
As regards the question of corporal punishment, I think that those who are trying to create a campaign about this matter are either gravely misled or very malicious. Teachers have difficulties, as I said when speaking in Irish, and if parents neglect their duties even in more important matters than school subjects, teachers are placed in very difficult situations. It is necessary for teachers, as I take it we must all agree, to maintain discipline and order in their schools. Unfortunately, you may have unruly individuals or unruly elements who are not prepared to obey the ordinary rules.
Some people might consider that we should employ psychiatrists in these cases and leave corporal punishment entirely aside. I assume from my experience as Minister, that since the regulations are quite definite and categorical, corporal punishment is administered only on very rare occasisions; but if one were to go down to the juvenile courts and see the people who are brought there week after week and to ask oneself what must be the problems of the teachers in primary schools who have to deal with these people, one might get a rather different idea of the problem. The children may not be to blame and the parents may not be to blame, but the problem is there. It may happen, as Deputy Moylan conceives, that very rarely a teacher may lose his temper or do something he should not do.
We know that when there are genuine cases brought to the attention of the Minister and of the Department, very stringent and very severe action is taken and that the authorities do not hesitate even to dismiss a teacher they would consider guilty. That does not mean that anyone is going to have any sympathy with any campaign that is being worked up by people who apparently have little else to do and who, if they were not on this particular campaign, would be perhaps on some equally mischievous one to try to create ill-feeling and general annoyance where harmony and peace are necessary, if we are to get proper results.
The Minister's references to the Council of Education are rather surprising. In the first place, the council was appointed in mid-1950 and it reported in June, 1954, so that the Minister has the report in hands for about a year. It is rather surprising that he has not been able to tell the House what matters, if any he has reached a decision upon. Are we to take it from what he states that, in fact, he has not reached a decision in reference to any of the recommendations? A great many of the recommendations seem not to involve any great administrative changes or any change of policy, and one would imagine it would have been possible to state, even though there are decisions which have still to be taken, that certain recommendations have been accepted. I assume that those in the majority report in general would be accepted by the Minister.
There is one special matter and that is the question of the number of subjects. The report of the council suggests that there should be additional subjects on the curriculum of the primary schools. I think the subjects are drawing, music and nature study, and the report says:—
"The council on the whole recommends the adoption of the following standard curriculum: religious instruction, Irish, English, arithmetic, history, music, physical training, nature study, geography, drawing, and needlework for girls.
It is recommended also that Algebra and Geometry be included as obligatory subjects in the curricula of schools to the extent to which they are at present obligatory, it being optional for any particular school to omit these subjects and devote the time allotted to them to Arithmetic where such a course is considered more profitable."
They recommend:
"Physical training should include education in hygiene."
They emphasise:
"To provide the foundation of cultural and aesthetic education is an integral part of the function of the primary school and for this purpose drawing, music and nature study possess distinctive virtue."
On the other hand, in regard to the primary teacher the view is expressed by Mr. Forde in his minority report as follows:
"If we now agree to suggest the addition of three new compulsory subjects to the existing programme, we are going back to the position that existed over 20 years ago. The suggestion that time can be found for the teaching of drawing, nature study and physical training, by cutting down on the written work in both Irish and English, is ridiculous. The standard in both those subjects is, if any, already too low to permit of further reduction. The suggestion furthermore shows a complete lack of knowledge of the working of a primary school. Most schools are two-teacher schools, where each teacher has two groups; and while one group is at written work, the other is at oral work."
So it would seem that it ought to have been possible by this time for the Minister to state whether he was accepting the majority report or otherwise; and, if he is, what steps he proposes to take to have these subjects introduced in the way the Council of Education recommends.
They refer also to the question of staffing. That is a question that can hardly be new to the Department. In the summary of the recommendations, they say:—
"154. Two problems are caused by the present organisation and staffing of schools: some teachers have classes that are too large, others too many classes.
155. The Council recommend that:—
(a) in the case of pupils of the same standard and mental age, the average number of pupils on roll under the charge of a trained teacher should not exceed 40;
(b) the average enrolment in one-teacher schools should not exceed 25;
(c) the average number of pupils in charge of each teacher in a two-teacher schools should not exceed 30, while in a three-teacher school that figure should be restricted to 35."
The Minister has spoken of the large number of schools that are being built. If the programme approximates to the 100 primary schools per year that Deputy Moylan speaks of, one would imagine that sufficient accommodation, and accommodation of the most modern type, would be available after some years for all our pupils.
The report of the Council of Education refers—I have not the reference at the moment—in the same way as the Minister refers on page 11 of the English version of his speech, to post-primary education and the vastly increased numbers. He says:—
"The encouraging feature which I wish to stress is that this vastly increased attendance at post-primary schools is entirely voluntary and so an act of faith on the part of Irish parents and a very healthy sign that the people generally are quite aware of the benefits of education."
The Council of Education refers also in paragraphs 101 and 102 to the fact that there had been a great increase in the numbers in post-primary education. They said that the foundation was the primary school but they referred in particular to the demand which the public had been making and is making for post-primary education.
Therefore, it is a pity that the Minister did not see his way to get the Council of Education to examine the problem of the possibility of raising the school-leaving age. Perhaps he can give us, from the information now at his disposal, some indication of the number of pupils at ages from 14 to 18 who are receiving post-primary education and what the nature of the problem would be if we were to raise the age for compulsory education from 14 to 15. Even a good many years ago, a large percentage of those reaching 14, particularly in the towns and cities, remained on for a further year or the greater part of the year. From the Minister's statements about the increase in the numbers in secondary schools and the numbers enrolled for full-time day continuation courses in the vocational schools, it would seem that a larger proportion of the post-14 pupils are in full time post primary education.
I assume that in the building programme proceeding in vocational and primary education, the possibility of the school-leaving age being raised is not being forgotten but is being kept in mind.
The Minister says he has reasons for not being able to tell the Dáil at the present time what his decisions are likely to be and he pleads for some further time. I should have imagined that the views which are being sought and which are stated to be in the course of receipt from other bodies should have been received by this time. I would be surprised if the views of some of those authorities were not made known to the council through the members nominated by these authorities or otherwise during the period when it was considering its report. The Minister says:
"We are trying to decide on what foundation we shall base our co-ordinated educational structure."
I do not quite know what that means. I take it that the primary school as we have it and the curriculum of which has been recommended by the Council of Education, to the extent that that curriculum is accepted by the Minister, that or another curriculum in the primary school will be the basis and foundation of our co-ordinated educational structure.
The question that arises is, what happens after the pupils leave the primary school at the age of 14. It is not to-day or yesterday, but many years ago, that that matter was the subject of consideration. There were circumstances which rendered it difficult, if not impossible, to deal with the general question of the school-leaving age during the war period or immediately afterwards. Having regard to the steps that have been taken in other countries and to the necessity there is for greater technical facilities throughout the country as well as the development of technological courses, the position at present is that our young farmers feel they would like to have courses in agricultural machinery. Those of them who take a special interest in mechanisation problems complain that they have to write to a British institute for the information they require.
Perhaps this matter would be more relevant on the Vote for Agriculture, but I suggest it is relevant here in this way, that under the Vote for Education the vocational education branch has been training country craftsmen. We would like to see that work continued and, if possible, expanded so that those men may hope to get permanent employment in the country under the new conditions if they instal the necessary equipment. We would also like to have the position that our young farmers would get the most up-to-date technical knowledge in their local vocational schools.
However, there is, over and above the question of what is being done elsewhere, the fact that we have rested on our oars for some time past. There is also an important fact which has a bearing or some of the points made here this evening with regard to Irish if the position be that the pupils are leaving school at the age of 14. The Council of Education says, I think, that they are leaving inadequately equipped. We find the following paragraphs in the Summary of Recommendations:—
"40. A reasonable majority of pupils continue their education at the primary school to the end of Standard VI, but there would appear to be an appreciable number who do not.
41. Most of those who leave before the end of Standard VI are of school-leaving age. Their progress through the primary school requires greater attention.
42. The proportion of the total number of pupils proceeding to the end of Standard VI and beyond is, however, greater than in the past."
Therefore, it would seem that there is a number, I do not know what the percentage would be, of pupils who are leaving school at 14 who have not reached the sixth standard. That is a very serious matter from the point of view of national progress. The one asset that we can give our young people is education. It is one thing that all children should have, a proper educational foundation. We cannot be satisfied, when an authoritative body, confirmed as I am sure it will be by the Department, states that a percentage, at any rate, of the pupils are leaving school without having reached the sixth standard. It would, obviously, be of importance that they should continue for a further period, for, say, one year.
With regard to Irish, if the pressure, particularly in the primary schools, is so great that the teachers view with such apprehension, as Mr. Forde has indicated, the possibility of any increase in the number of compulsory subjects, and if they complain that in fact it is impossible to teach on more written and oral work satisfactorily in both languages at the present time so as to be able to give a satisfactory account of themselves under the present curriculum, should we not consider giving the teachers a little more elbow-room, and should we not consider, in the interests of the revival of Irish, the advantages of raising the school-leaving age by at least another year?
I should like if the Minister would indicate, when replying, whether any attention has been given to that matter. The Minister will possibly tell me that it would be premature to ask the council to examine this question. I cannot agree that it would be premature, having regard to the fact that it was the subject of discussion in this House even before the war, and the war is over now for a good many years. The Minister says that:—
"We are trying to decide on what foundation we shall base our co-ordinated educational structure and, until that is done, we cannot usefully go forward to the equally important question of the pattern of the superstructure, i.e., arrangements for continuation education."
If the Minister and the Department have not their minds made up at the present time about the basis of our educational structure that, in my view, is certainly a very extraordinary situation. The Minister goes on to say that:—
"Neither would it be reasonable to expect the council to attack that large problem until they knew the outcome of their recommendations on their first remit."
That may seem fair enough, that before the council are asked to tackle the problem of continuation education they should know what is going to happen—at least if they are going to be kept in good humour—whether the Minister is going to torpedo their recommendations or what he is going to do.
Irrespective of what decisions the Minister may come to, I think the members of the council have shown themselves to be sufficiently disinterested, patriotic and sufficiently interested in educational problems to continue the good work they have been doing for the country, and for the Irish people. Even if the Minister, as is very likely to happen, does not agree with them in all the recommendations they make "neither would it be reasonable to expect the council to attack that large problem until they knew the outcome of their recommendations on their first remit". The Minister went on to say:—
"That is why I have asked the council, pending our reaching decisions on the recommendations made in the present report on the primary school, to consider the secondary school curriculum. This question lends itself to detachment from the more general problem by reason of the traditional character of the secondary school and of the knowledge that the secondary school must and will continue no matter what other system or systems may be in operation."
We are a little more cautious than to attempt to interfere with the secondary schools, but the Minister, instead of asking the council as soon as he has his mind made up about their report on primary education to go ahead with and examine the question of continuation education and to advise him on the problems that arise and how that situation will be dealt with, asks the council to consider the secondary school curriculum.
I must say that from the point of view of the general national interest and the advancement of education, it is a great pity, particularly if any considerable amount of time is to be spent upon the work of examining the secondary schools curriculum, that preference was not given to the general question of continuation education and the possibilities of extending it generally throughout the country and giving all our young people an opportunity of getting a further year.
With regard to the maintenance of schools, I was glad to see that the Minister referred to that matter and that the Council of Education referred to it very particularly. The Minister says that the schools are the property of the people as they undoubtedly are. The Council of Education explains in their report what is the legal position. You have the trustees in whom the national schools, as we call them, are vested and they represent the people in that way. Also, the schools are the property of the people.
The Minister referred to the sharing of the burdens that is necessary if the parishes and the local community are to do their share. I would be very interested to know whether there is a definite legal obligation upon the managers of schools to maintain the fabric of the schools in a proper condition. When the Minister hands over a new school to the managers at great cost to the community it is only right and proper, I think, on behalf of the community, that there should be safeguards to which managers themselves will not object and which are to some extent there already, that the schools will be maintained in a proper and fitting condition.
When I was Minister for Education— it is a long time ago—I found out that the upkeep cost of schools maintained by the Board of Works —the non-vested schools—in a particular diocese, where, I am afraid, the standard of maintenance generally was not as good as it should have been, was not very great. I think it ran at about £10 or £12 per school per year at that time. Of course, if we have to employ persons permanently to look after the schools it is going to throw a very serious financial burden on the parishes but the country is in a more prosperous condition and money is now plentiful and is being spent in ways that we all know are not as praiseworthy.
I endorse what the Minister said about the importance of maintaining the schools and also the reference made to this important matter at paragraph 336 of the Report of the Council of Education. I think the vast bulk, perhaps 80 per cent. of the cost of primary education—the Minister may be able to give exact figures—is borne by the State. On one occasion I was told it was well over 90 per cent. It seems only fair and reasonable that there should be a proper procedure, and proper machinery to ensure that the beautiful buildings which are now being erected will be properly kept.
I would like to endorse what Deputy Moylan said about the need for additional accommodation in the National Library and also with regard to the National Museum. It is difficult for the Minister, with the multifarious activities that are indicated in the subheads of the Votes, to reach on all the activities and to be able to do all that he would wish, but I suggest that if these institutions came up separately in the House and not under the Education Vote, they might, perhaps, receive more attention, sympathy and support from members on all sides of the House. They come up under the general Education Vote and are discussed with a vast number of other matters.
I do not know how many generations have gone since the National Library and National Museum were erected. They are doing splendid work and are very important for all sections of our people and for visitors. I suggest that the Minister, now that the Exchequer is in a prosperous condition and revenue is so buoyant, might be able to use his good offices with the Minister for Finance to get something done for the institutions for which he is responsible.
Mar dhuine a chaith tamall dá shaol ag múineadh scoile, tá suim fé leith agam i gcúrsaí oideachais agus tá a fhios agam nach bhfuil ábhar ar bith a phléimid anseo níos tábhachtaí don tír. Tá a fhios agam freisin go dtuigeann gach Teachta eile í chomh maith. Dá ainneoin sin, is beag atá le maoímh againn. Ó bunaíodh an Stát seo i 1922 rinneadh dul chun chinn mór i gcúrsaí tionscail agus tráchtála, i gcúrsaí talmhaíochta, i gcúrsaí tithe agus mar sin de. Is fíor a rá go ndearnadh méid éigin sa ghairmoideachas ach sa bhun-oideachas agus sa mheán-oideachas ní dearnadh faic gur fiú trácht air.
Tar éis an teanga náisiúnta a bheith á múineadh ins na scoileanna le breis agus triocha bliain, an bhfuil duine ar bith againn sásta leis an dtoradh? Tá mé lán-chinnte nach bhfuil. Níorbh fhéidir an scéal a bheith mórán níos measa ná mar atá sé anois. B'fhearr liomsa míle uair agus tá mé dearfa gur fearr linn go léir an Ghaeilge a bheith ag míle duine a ghráíonn í ná ag deich míle arbh fhearr leo an sioc sa bhFómhar ná í.
Ná bíodh ár súile dúnta againn. Bíonn an fhírinne searbh go minic ach bíonn sí folláin. Sí an fhírinne í go bhfuil ag teipeadh glan ar na módhanna múinte agus ar na módhanna oibre a bhí againn go dtí seo. Má leanann an scéal mar sin níl seans ar bith go mairfidh an teanga. Mar sin, in ainm Dé, bíodh sé de mhisneach againn na módhanna sin d'athrú do réir mar is gá.
Tá ceist seo an oideachais chomh lán-thábhachtach sin nach mbeadh sé ar mo choinsias agam mo chuid tuairimí ar fad a nochtadh i dteanga nach dtuigeann formhór na dTeachtaí sa Teach seo. Tá trí rudaí riachtanach más áil linn an teanga do chur chun chinn. Is iad na trí rudaí sin ná cleachtadh, misneach agus bród.
I have been saying that in the beginning, in spite of the fact that certain hypocritical taunts were thrown at people who began to speak in Irish and then continued in English, I, nevertheless, found it obligatory to say a few words in what is my native language in spite of the fact that, perhaps, my experience is limited by not being used to it, as it were, and by reason of the fact that in my particular calling and in relation to the people I meet I do not find Irish as necessary as one might expect after over 30 years of concentrated effort to make it so.
The position, to my mind, with regard to education in this country is this: it is a huge question involving great and many problems and one which could not be touched upon even in a Vote of this kind in this House embracing as it does all branches relating to education, a question which could not be adequately dealt with in an evening or two evenings on a Vote of this kind. I hope I am going to approach this question in a realistic and objective manner, and in so approaching it, I want to say at the very beginning that it is my view, in agreement with those who have already expressed that view, that the Irish language whether taught as a subject or whether subjects are taught through its medium should not be made the plaything of any political Party and should not be claimed as the plaything of a political Party so that that Party could derive advantage from it. The Irish language is our language, the language of our people, and as such it is right and proper that it should be given national rather than political treatment.
Since 1922, as I have already said in Irish, we have made great progress in this country—there is no doubt about that—in the spheres of industry and agriculture and housing, but what can be said about our progress in the realm of education? Remember we were known in the dim and distant past as the "Island of Saints and Scholars". In my humble opinion we are certainly not scholars now in the same sense in which we were then and I believe it to be a fundamental necessity that in order to be a saint one must be a scholar to some extent. However, that latter line is not my province and I do not propose to enter into it in any great detail.
Progress has been made in vocational education—nobody disputes that —but that progress has by no means reached the point which we would all like it to have reached, but in secondary and primary education virtually little has been achieved in the matter of education in the true sense of the word. When I talk about education I am not talking about building schools, maintaining them, the provision of playgrounds, or teachers' salaries or any of those kindred things which go with the subject of education. With the exception of the introduction of Irish on an intensified scale and greater emphasis on Irish history our present educational system remains essentially the same as that system that was condemned by Padraig Pearse very many years ago and then called "the murder machine". That is borne out by the fact that the tentative experimental programme laid down for our national schools in 1923, except for some minor parings and patchings, additions and exclusions here and there, due to what I would call the futility of not knowing what to do in certain cases is, for all practical purposes, the same to-day.
In contrast to that, in continental countries, in America and in Great Britain, there is a constant process of change in educational programmes and methods and that change in educational programmes and methods is indulged in in Great Britain and the United States in order to keep the programmes and the plans in pace with the development of modern ideas and the trends of civilisation generally. In Ireland we have for all practical purposes remained static in that respect. Have our educational experts nothing of their own to offer to the world in regard to modern educational thought? Are we, I ask—and I ask it very sincerely—to remain stagnant? Or are we blindly to follow the ideas of foreign educationists?
We have in this country a body of teachers both lay and clerical who are second to none in ability and enthusiasm, and if I may pause here to pay a tribute particularly to that body of men and women all over the country who are our national teachers, I would say they are the people who not alone teach all of us the A, B, C, the three R's and all the ordinary things we have to learn in what is called the educational system, but who, for a half hour each day or for an hour at certain times of the year undertake the perfect inculcation into the pupils, free of charge, of the Christian doctrine. Surely these people are worthy of the greatest attention and respect and should be given every care and made as happy as possible in every way and adequately remunerated for the wonderful work they do. It is, therefore, our duty and the duty of our experts to help these teachers both lay and clerical to whose ability and enthusiasm I have already referred by providing them with the educational programme and system that is best suited to our needs.
In talking about the educational programme one is brought face to face with what is a fundamental weakness in our educational system. In my opinion that fundamental weakness is that it is too academic. A true system must have a practical as well as an academic arm. Lest it might be said here that I rose in this House only to criticise the system I have a few suggestions to make—I do not say they are practical, I do not say they are constructive, off my own bat, but I offer them for what they are worth to the Minister and his advisers in an effort to make the system of education a little more practical and less academic.
The first suggestion I would like to make is in relation to the use of vocational schools in larger centres. I would recommend that the classes be so organised as to leave the carpentry room, the mechanics room or the metalwork room or some such room vacant on Saturday mornings so that into these rooms could be brought the senior pupils from the national schools who could there be taught the elements of say, carpentry, the simple things such as how to drive a nail, how to use a saw, how to plane a bit of wood and how to do minor household repairs such as painting a door, varnishing a floor, or laying a carpet, the rudiments of ordinary minor household repairs.
Secondly, you have at present the pupils of our secondary schools enjoying up to ten weeks' summer holidays. I do not know how they use them; some of them in the country, those with whom I have most contact, spend some of the time with their people in the country; others spend the whole time doing nothing because they have nothing to do, waiting for the dreaded day at the beginning of September when they go back again to their boarding schools.
Again, in the larger centres these pupils could be brought to the local vocational schools which are generally idle at this time of the year and be taught there how to carry out the more advanced household repairs, in addition to what I have already referred to, carpentry and the elements of electricity. That would not apply to the city entirely because with the advent of rural electrification it is more essential than ever that the people should become more acquainted with the rudiments of electricity, know how to do minor repairs, for instance, on an electric plug, how to repair an electric iron, how to clean drains if choked. If necessary they could be taught how to do very minor repairs even on footwear, and so on.
It might appear at first sight that these things are not so essential at all but let us view it in this way. Later on when a young man sets up house on his own he should not be, as the vast majority of Irishmen are, completely helpless when some minor repair work needs to be done. An elementary practical training such as I have outlined and done in the manner I have suggested would be suitable in obviating these difficulties that beset people setting up house for the first time.
All that would have innumerable beneficial results. The house would be better kept and there would be less occasion to send for skilled help to deal with elementary repair work. This would avoid the waste of skilled labour because it is a waste of skilled labour when people send out for a skilled man to do very minor jobs. When the skilled men have to waste time on such work they must of necessity scamp the work which should occupy more of their time. We all have experienced that on the occasion of frost and when the thaw follows and pipes are burst, there is bedlam with people looking for plumbers, whereas these things could be done in the ordinary way if the average man had at his disposal at the right time in his life the instruction to which I refer.
In addition, this training would enable people to provide themselves with an after-work occupation. There would be less queueing for the pictures and there would be a greater interest and pride in the home. Putting all those things together it would contribute to no small extent to a reduction in the cost of living which is added to by the helplessness of our people in being obliged to have everything done for them and to spend a great deal of the weekly income in getting things done that they themselves at the right age should have been trained to do.
The only constructive and appreciable step that has been made in the field of primary education since the inception of this tentative programme is what is known as the cultural half hour instituted by Deputy Moylan when he was Minister for Education. I myself would call it a half hour of digression, when a teacher can take up any subject he likes, digress from the usual programme and talk about things around him that would be of interest. There is a suggestion in the Council of Education Report that additional subjects be put on an already overloaded national school programme. I know that algebra and geometry are not obligatory in certain schools. It is compulsory in three-teacher schools and larger boys' schools but it is not compulsory in the smaller ones. Nevertheless, I fail to see what advantage I or anybody else gained by spending a great deal of time removing a's, b's and c's from innumerable brackets with minuses and pluses put there in addition to confuse us. I have never seen the point.
I would take algebra completely off the national school programme, with the exception of the unknown quantity, the use of x, in finding out, say, if so many pounds of butter cost so much, then how many pounds would you get for so much money. I would keep the use of x up to that point, but I would take algebra completely off the national school programme. I would also take away geometry as we know it now and I would restore to the national school programme what was known in the old days, and is even in still extant arithmetics, as mensuration, where again the practical things are to be learned about covering a floor with linoleum or carpet, papering or painting a wall, the size of the windows, the amount of glass required, and so on. These are things which are of practical application and should be introduced instead of having the programme overloaded with subjects that are of no consequence. We must adapt our educational system to the needs of our people.
Another matter to which I would refer in all sincerity as a matter of some urgency is that of speech training. It is not very long ago since we in this country were renowned for a very long time previously, principally abroad and to some extent at home, as a nation of orators and as people who could not alone be heard but could be understood. I am not speaking about members of this House, or members of local bodies or anybody else like that. I am speaking of the average person who is called upon from time to time to say a few words in public or even asked a question in the ordinary course of business. At the moment we are a nation of mumblers. The introduction of Irish, with the intensity with which it was introduced has had a deteriorating effect on our people's knowledge of English. I see no future for the Irish language as a spoken language unless bilingualism is going to flourish. I can see no future for parts of our country being Irish-speaking, knowing no English, and other parts being English-speaking, knowing no Irish. Such a division would be socially, morally, and in every other way I can think of, bad. Every effort should be made to raise the standard of speech both in Irish and in English.
How will we go about it? We must, first of all, start with the primary schools and, starting with the primary schools, we must of course immediately go to our training colleges wherein are taught the people who will later teach in the primary schools. I am told that elocution is a subject on the programme of the training colleges for primary teachers. I am also told that as it is taught at present it is a complete waste of time. If it is not taught in a proper manner it cannot have any beneficial effect upon the teacher and consequently it cannot have any beneficial effect upon the pupil, who will be at the mercy of a teacher who has not benefited as he should by his training in the training college.
How can we expect our children to be taught to speak properly if the teacher has not been so taught? I would suggest in this respect that we are not making the use we should of modern ideas and inventions in our educational system. I would advocate the installation of the wire recording system as essential equipment in every training college because nobody can fully appreciate his defects in speech, and everybody has got them since nobody is perfect, until he hears his own voice played back to him. I think the installation of a wire recorder in every training college would be a very good thing because then prospective teachers could get some idea of where the faults lay and set about repairing these defects. Such defects could be ascertained through the medium of a piece of selected reading or through the medium of a recorded conversation between two or three people.
The wire recorder could also be used to give potential teachers the proper blás. It could be used to advantage in the secondary schools for the teaching of modern languages, because modern languages could be brought right into the classrooms in schools situated in the most remote parts of the country.
The Church of Ireland, in their training college, are using the college for imparting to its students the very highly specialised technique of actual teaching—the technique of imparting the subject and of making the pupil interested in what is being imparted. These teachers proceed to a degree in Dublin University and they have, therefore, a double advantage: they have their specialised training in a specialised centre under specialist teachers, and, in addition, they have the benefit of a general training in a university atmosphere where they meet people, make contacts and gain that insight which is so essential in the life of any teacher. Those who go only to the training colleges come, in the vast majority of cases, from the masses of the people who are of the Roman Catholic faith. They are at a disadvantage because they all go to the preparatory college and there they are all of the same type; they are grouped together there for four years and, at the end of that period, they go to the training college where they are all grouped together once more. At the end of their training they go to the various centres not having had the chance that Ulysses had of "becoming part" of all that they have met since in that process of preparatory college and training college and back to the country school, they have not met anybody or widened their experience.
Now nobody is satisfied with the results where the teaching of Irish is concerned. For 30 years now our efforts to make Irish the spoken language of the people have not borne the fruit that those who initiated the programme thought they would bear. The time has come when we must pause and take stock. What are we doing about that failure? Have any of our experts gone abroad and made any study of the efforts made by other nations to restore the native language? We know that in Palestine Hebrew was a dead language for over 1,000 years. It is to-day a living language in Israeli. Have any of our experts in the Department of Education, or outside it, visited Israeli to study the methods adopted there to revive the Hebrew tongue? Have they been to Wales and studied there the condition of the Welsh language and the manner in which it survives side by side with the English language?
Some of us only see our primary schools now on election day. Recently I saw my own national school and on the walls there I saw the same pictorial aids that were there when I went to school, and that is more years than I would care to say. Pictorial aids are very necessary and such aids, in order to get the best results, should be up-to-date.
In the primary schools there should be a definite set course so that when a class goes up the teacher will not have to spend six weeks or two months finding out how much the children learned in the class below. If there is a definite set course the teacher will know at what point to start at the beginning of the school year with the new pupils for that year. With regard to programmes generally, too much is attempted. The inevitable result is that too little is achieved. The exercises set for the children are too difficult. The Irish text books are too advanced. The grammar exercises are of such a standard that they can have no other effect except to frighten the pupils and instil into the minds of the children an antagonism to the subject instead of that thirst for knowledge that follows on a genuine interest. I would remove analysis altogether out of the primary school curriculum. Analysis, goodness knows, is bad enough in the Leaving Certificate programme and to some of us it is even yet a nightmare. How children of such tender age as those attending the primary schools can be expected to go through all these wonderful manoeuvres both in Irish and in English I do not know.
In the secondary schools there should be greater stress on oral examinations. The leaving of the secondary school programme to a mere reading of textbooks and to being able to convert that reading back to paper is not a true test of educational standard. It may be a standard of examination but in my opinion it certainly is not a standard of education and the two, in my respectful opinion, are very much different. There is no aspect of education in this country which should be looked into with greater speed than the question of the teaching of backward children. I am not referring to abnormal children or to mentally defective children but to the ordinary backward child whose development is slowed and retarded and I think it is high time that, in the larger centres at any rate, specially trained teachers should be got to deal with them—with the kind of children to whom Deputy Derrig referred. You meet them quite often in the juvenile courts—the fellow of 15 or 16 years of age and sometimes the girl who is not able to read or write because her development was slow.
These children cannot properly be attended to in large classes and consequently are left behind in the programme of to-day which is really a programme of the survival of the fittest. If you put those mentally slow children into their proper places with properly trained teachers you will eventually get them their right place in the life of the nation and you will relieve the lot of the teachers in the classes from which they have been taken so that their progress will be even faster and the progress of the other ordinary pupils greater indeed. I would impress upon the Minister the importance of taking cognisance of that particular point in relation to backward children. He should have his Department examine it with a view to taking steps towards an early solution of the problem because it is a problem whether we like it or not. We are not all as advanced as we would like to think ourselves and the development of a proper system of education related to the people's needs is absolutely essential, because a satisfactory system of education presupposes a reasonably contented body of teachers and reasonably happy school lives for the children.
Great play has been made here about some kind of booklet that has been published by some group or other about punishment in our schools. I have not read the booklet; I am not going to read the booklet because I do not believe there is any undue punishment being given out in our schools by any of our teachers. You will have the exceptions but these exceptions are in relation to the people who very probably should never have been teachers at all. In my experience in the courts very few occasions have arisen when I have seen a national teacher brought in. When you think to-day of the care and attention that must be given by teachers to pupils, of the indulgence which they must show, of all the qualities of parents they must generate within themselves, and of all the things that make the happy teacher and the happy class, I think our teachers as a body come out on top, if you judge them by those standards.
When leaving the schools behind them, pupils should be able to carry with them happy memories of their school lives and a respect for the principles taught in the schools. Unfortunately, I am afraid that cannot be the case when teachers have to endeavour to teach over-loaded programmes. That is the great danger. It has resulted in thousands of people turning their backs on the standards and principles taught to them in their schooldays and it has led to conditions to which reference is made from time to time by spiritual and educational authorities about some of our people who have left the country. In the United States of America, in Great Britain and, in fact, in every other country, every effort is made to give the children the happy school lives about which I have been talking. Any suggestion of grinding or crushing, particularly in the primary stages of education, is the very negation of education because it defeats its own purpose, and we in this country—and I again have to revert to the language problem —must beware lest in our efforts to grind we fail in this fundamental respect.
In the past a large proportion of our children came to regard Irish as synonymous with grinding. Any feeling of that sort must, of course, negative the best efforts of our teachers and this must not be forgotten when framing our educational methods. Let it not be thought that I am antagonistic to the revival of our language. It is our birthright and I do not know of any Deputy who would not wish for its revival, but let us not turn a blind eye to reality in our revival efforts. Let us not victimise our own people. Let us not deprive them of their rights, based first of all on the needs of the day and based particularly on their individual needs. It is nothing short of criminal in my opinion to deprive the people of the Gaeltacht of a good knowledge of the English language. Let me explain why.
As I stated already during the debate on the Vote for Oifig na Gaeltachta agus na gCeanntar gCúng, as long as you have got Gaeltacht areas and congested areas subject to migration and emigration there is no point in trying to ask the people in those areas whose objective is London, or Coventry, or Birmingham, or Chicago, to learn Irish and retain Irish to the exclusion of English. We owe it to those people for whom emigration is necessary that they would be fully equipped educationally to compete with the best in the countries to which they have to go. If you follow that to its logical conclusion, if you are going to keep English out of the Gaeltacht areas—to keep it out entirely and let the people grow up without any knowledge of it—you are debarring them from the Civil Service and from positions in Church and State. I do not think that was the objective of the people who originally came out to make Irish the living language of this country.
Is it our policy that the people of the Gaeltacht be not allowed to enter into the Civil Service? Are they to be deprived the rights of our other free people, of our other citizens? Are they to be victimised because Irish is their vernacular? Are they to be left in what can only be described as a Gaeltacht prototype of an Indian reservation? That is the situation if you exclude them from the right to learn the language which is used by half the world to-day and which is the second language of European countries who engaged in bitter struggles against the British. No amount of £5 bounties or glasshouses could compensate these people for the damage that you will do to them if you exclude them from their right of learning the language of the country to which they may have to go to earn their living. Let us face up to the facts; let us be realistic.
I should like for a moment to dwell on the question of parity of pay for national teachers. I am not, of course, as conversant as Deputy Derrig is with the buoyancy of the funds or the state of the Exchequer and I would not like to lend myself to suggestions which might lead to increasing the burden of taxation, but I do say that if increased moneys could be found for educational purposes I would prefer to see them go to the teachers. I am in favour of parity of pay for the different types of recognised teachers. If necessary, I would like to see that parity of pay achieved gradually, let us say, in annual or biannual or tri-annual increments. At the moment we have got absurd situations where you have teachers teaching in secondary, top of primary, and national schools doing the same work as secondary teachers for a much smaller salary. There are graduate teachers in national schools with a remuneration much below that of non-graduate teachers in vocational schools. I do not know how we can expect our national teachers to give of their best while such anomalies, and very often unjust anomalies, are left unremedied.
In passing, in relation to pay, remuneration and parity, I must say one small word about the pre-1950 pensioned teachers, a deputation of whom have seen me and who have assured me that their whole case has been put on paper and brought to the notice of the Minister. Accordingly, I shall not tire either the Minister or the House by putting that case again, but I would like the Minister to realise that the pre-1950 pensioned national teacher was a man who lived in different times, who lived when salaries were lower and when, possibly, things were easier but, at the same time, he made a wonderful contribution, not alone by his work in the school, but by placing his family, often at great sacrifice to himself and his wife, in positions of Church and State to-day.
One might argue that, having done that for their families, these families might in turn be able to provide for them the difference between what they say should be their pension and what it actually is. Everybody knows, in the changed circumstances of the times, how difficult it is to get on, even with increased salaries. This is a ragged end in the Department of Education, leaving a group of people, particularly retired people, at the end of their days, thoroughly discontented and having reached a stage where they feel, and in my opinion rightly feel, that their country has let them down, so to speak.
I would say there is one bright spot in this whole review of the Irish language, that is, the wonderful progress that has been made on the literary side. There are no literary periodicals published in this country in English that could compare either in content or format with Feasta, published by the Gaelic League or Comhar, published by An Comh-Chaidreamh. These monthly publications have a substantial sale. They contain articles of very high standard on such subjects as philosophy, religion, economics, art, literary criticism, that would be the Irish equivalents, I would venture to suggest of the Spectator and the Statesman and probably John O'London's Weekly and the funds made available in these Estimates to help these very fine publications is, in my opinion, money very well spent. Then there is the weekly periodical Inniú, and An Gael Óg, published by the Christian Brothers. These are also doing some very valuable work.
There is, however, a crying need for suitable books, graded as regards language and matter. In the majority of Irish books for children the language is altogether too difficult. It should not be too difficult a task to set to a body, say, like An Gúm to induce Irish writers to provide children of various ages with reading material in language suitable to their age and told in very simple Irish.
A thought occurred to me in the course of the last few days as I was devoting some attention to this particular subject that Scéalaíocht Céitinn, which is done in just the very beginning of modern Irish but which is nevertheless very difficult, contains some very beautiful stories which could be done in simplified Irish and put into the hands of children. There could also be detective stories and adventure stories in not too difficult Irish. The provision of suitable reading matter of this type would be a great help in the teaching of Irish in the schools.
Let me conclude by saying what I have already said: give the people of all this country equal opportunity. Let those of us who are particularly unfortunate in having to leave our country for economic reasons or for any other reason and seek a living abroad be adequately equipped to compete in the labour market with a good knowledge of the language of the country in which we seek to sell our labour. Do not put us at a disadvantage. In that you will make some contribution towards removing what has been for far too long an almost universally accepted term, the "Irish navvy". Irishmen have done extremely well abroad and if you inquire what has been the cause of their doing well abroad you will find that the very first thing they did when they went abroad was to go to night school. If there were a proper, live system of education here with a practical arm as well as an academic arm, devoted to their needs, whether they were going to stay at home or go abroad, there would be no need to go to night school but they would reach the country of their forced adoption necessarily equipped to start at a stage which they would reach under the present system after night school.
I wish to repeat the case I have made every time the Estimates for the Department of Education came before the House for the backward or retarded child, at least one of whom will be found in every village and town. For children who are incapable of absorbing education that could be imparted by teachers trained to deal with the retarded child, there are many institutions. I do not wish to slight in any way their efforts. These children are trained and very carefully looked after by those who are in charge of them. There is a type of child who, because of backwardness, is brushed aside and does not get the education that would help it to absorb what the teacher wants to impart.
Parents of such children have come to me to implore me to try to get them into homes or schools or institutions where, in addition to being well fed and well cared for, they would receive some form of education. These parents implored me to try to have teachers provided for such children. Such facilities are available in Scotland. I know of a case of a boy of 8 years of age who was taken to Scotland by an aunt. In Scotland there are schools catering for such children. After a year or two, the child came home. It came home quite bright, able to read a little bit— only a very little bit—and able to write its name and address and do a few other little things that gave great joy to its parents.
When the parents were speaking to me about the matter they asked: why is it that there is not such a place in any part of Ireland for such children? I remember hearing Deputy Moylan speak on this subject two or three years ago. We were all very pleased when he told us that he was very fortunate in finding a group of people in this city interested in the education of that type of child. What has happened since, I do not know. All I am sure of is that the parents of such children come to me and tell me that there is no place in this country where their children can get the type of education which the child I have spoken of got in one year in Scotland.
I appeal to the Minister to take an interest in this matter and to see to it that the parents of such children are made happy in the knowledge that when their children are taken into a school, an institution or a home, they are not just going there to be fed but will, in addition, he trained physically and mentally so that, when they return home after a year or two, the parents will see that efforts were made, even in a small way, to educate them. I make that appeal to the Minister in all sincerity.
Every time this Estimate comes up for debate, somebody speaks on this matter, just as did the last speaker. After making a very fine and effective speech he referred to the very matter which I am now raising, and I might point out that I have sat here for the past three hours waiting to make that one little point which the last speaker included in his very able statement— the treatment of retarded and backward children in the city. These children require special consideration. Instead of somebody in an ordinary national school taking such a child and bringing it forward a little bit to see what can be done with it, what usually happens is that such a child is put to the end of the class and nobody pays any attention to it, so that when it is 14, or 15, or 16 years of age it has not that little bit of learning and knowledge which it needs so badly and which would be the cause of happiness and satisfaction to the parents. I would implore the Minister to try to do something for backward and retarded children here—something of the kind which, I understand, is being done for such children in Scotland. I may say I have a booklet on the matter.
Before I proceed further with my speech I want to congratulate the Minister on the statement which he made to this House this afternoon. I read the translation of it. In the course of that statement he spoke about the development of the building of new schools. There has been a wonderful change throughout the whole country in the efforts made to build new schools and to improve the old ones. However, there are still a few very bad ones in Dublin City. I have in mind the school in the Queen Street area—I forget the name of the school just now. There is a school there and you have to go up three or four flights of stairs to get to it. Apparently, at one time, in days gone by, the house was occupied by lordly people but the position at the present time is that the house is anything but adequate to meet the school requirements of the area. There is another such instance in Buckingham Street in the centre of the city. In a house there, there is an overflow of children from some of the schools in the area.
It is a good thing to see that accommodation is being found for school children in general. There has been a splendid improvement and great efforts are being made to accommodate them. I congratulate the Minister on that work, but we must not forget places such as those I have just alluded to. Another question arises on the subject of schools. I think it was Deputy Dunne who to-day made reference to the fact that over 36,000 persons are living in Ballyfermot. Just imagine that. In one housing scheme alone of the Dublin Corporation there are 36,000 persons. The trouble there is or was—it is not there now, I believe— that when the municipal authorities decide on a big housing scheme the schools do not go up at the same time. The position then is that the houses become occupied and the children are left in the neighbourhood for a year or maybe two years before suitable school accommodation is found for them.
I do not know who is responsible for holding up the plans for the provision of schools in such areas. Furthermore, I do not know why plans are changed or in whose Department plans are changed so often that in one area alone the building of a school was delayed for nearly two years. That delay was occasioned by the changing of plans in some Government Department. That should not be. May I express a hope that, when new housing areas are being contemplated, somebody in the Minister's Department—perhaps the secretary or somebody specially selected to look after the future of the children in the schools—will make immediate provision for schools for the children who will be living in those new areas. I hope that when he hears of a new housing scheme the first thing he will do is to make provision for the choosing of a site for the school and, after that, see to it that the school is erected at the same time as the houses, or even before the houses are completed, so that when the people go to live in the new housing scheme their children will not be running about for a year or maybe more while they are waiting for a school to be built for them.
So far as I am aware, there is no complaint whatsoever by the Church authorities of different denominations. I understand that if they ask the municipal authorities for a site for a school a site is always found. The building of these new schools places a big burden on the parish managers and on the people of the area generally. I hope that the day has ended when our municipal authorities will send out families any more outside the centre of the city. The time has come to rebuild the old parts of the city where there are schools and churches and shops.
I come now to the pre-1950 pensioned school teachers. I would ask the Minister if their claims have been satisfied. This matter has been going on now for five years and the people in question are getting older all the time. Furthermore, the cost of living is not going down very much and their pensions are not going up.
Would the Deputy say the cost of living is going up?
At one time or another I have seen every member of this House with a deputation of retired school teachers in the Lobbies or up in their committee rooms or in their own Party rooms. I would ask the Minister if he can give any hope for these retired teachers who carried the burden in the early days. We are all agreed that it was those teachers who carried the burden in those early days and fostered the ideals and ideas in our people as a result of which we are able to come in here today and sit in our own Parliament. These people are worthy of our consideration and sympathy now and I suggest that a practical form of sympathy is required. I urge upon the Minister to take some action in this matter and give some little encouragement, when he is replying, to these pensioned teachers. Furthermore, I appeal to him to give some hope to the parents of retarded and backward children—parents such as those who asked me to make this appeal to him to-day. Again, may I say I trust he will utter a word or so that will satisfy or give some hope to the pre-1950 pensioned teachers.
Before I start my speech I want to thank Deputy Cunningham for his courtesy in allowing me to speak out of my turn. When I was deciding what I should say on this Vote I imagined that possibly I should be in a minority of one. I was very glad to see that a number of the Deputies who have spoken in the course of this debate have the same idea as I have. I come from a rural part of Ireland which is an English-speaking area. I am perfectly satisfied that the experiment which has been carried out for the past 30 years of teaching Irish in the schools has proved a failure. I learned Irish in the national school and in the secondary school and I liked Irish. Furthermore, I should very much like to see the Irish language revived.
I am afraid, however, that the system of forcing Irish down the throats of children who do not know it and who are not accustomed to hearing it spoken in the home is not satisfactory. It is very easy for native Irish speakers in this House to scoff at the suggestion that children do not know Irish or cannot learn it. It is nonsense to think that children can be educated through the medium of a language they do not know.
For the past number of years, it has become very obvious that the children leaving the schools—not all of them luckily, but very many are semi-illiterate in two languages. That seems to be the only thing that has been achieved by the present system of teaching through the medium of Irish. I would like very much to be able to say something different here this evening, but, as a man with three school-going children, a man who has a knowledge of teaching through having gone through the national school and talking to children being taught in these schools, I am perfectly satisfied that the only thing that has been achieved under the present system is the putting out into the world to try to earn their living of children who have not got a working knowledge of the English language, not to speak of the Irish language.
Something has to be done about it. I am afraid I could not suggest a remedy, but I am perfectly satisfied, as apparently other speakers were satisfied, that the system is all wrong, and I appeal to the Minister, no matter what the Council of Education or anybody else says, to try to get down to rock-bottom and find out from the teachers, from the parents and from the children themselves whether or not the present system is a success.
A few weeks ago, a teacher came to me, having travelled over 40 miles to make a complaint about this particular matter. He told me that, in the country district where he taught, there were 80 pupils. Of these, 60 came a distance of over two miles from the school and 20 came a distance of three miles, and that if the weather was extremely bad, they did not come at all. During the year, the average attendance was very bad, particularly over the past wet season. Most of the children, and particularly those who had to come a long distance, did not come until they were almost six years of age, and they left as soon as they reached the age of 14. He posed the question to me: What chance have these children of receiving any kind of an education when they are being taught through the medium of a language they do not know or have no inclination to learn? Half-an-hour per day through the medium of English seems to be ridiculous when an effort is being made to educate children and I appeal to the Minister to do something about it now before it is too late. We all know of the dozens— aye, the hundreds—of youngsters leaving school who can very little more than write their names and cannot count the change out of a pound note.
There is a question on which I should very much like to hear the Minister's views—the question of the new schools being erected. I do not claim to have an intimate knowledge of what has been done to have a school erected, but I am not satisfied with the rate of progress. In some areas, schools have been approved for almost 12 months and the children are still living in the old ramshackle schools and no attempt is apparently being made to provide the new schools. which are to be erected some time and for which, as I say, approval has been given.
I am not satisfied either that the schools which have been erected—fine new schools within the past 20 years —are being treated properly by the people responsible. I do not know who is to be held responsible—whether the managers or the teachers—but we all know of schools erected within the past 20 years, the walls of which are now dirty and scruffy, with broken windows and broken furniture inside. That is the atmosphere in which our children are being taught and trained over the years when they should be in an atmosphere which would help them in later years.
All over the country the situation has arisen that new schools which have been erected are, through pure neglect, in a much worse condition than schools erected a couple of hundred years ago. Apparently, no painting whatever has been done on them since they were erected. Nobody is responsible. There is an official opening of the schools and then they proceed to allow them to be pulled down again in a very short time. That is true of Meath, as I am sure it is true of every other constituency, and I ask the Minister to take steps to do something about it. If he wishes, I can give him the names of half a dozen schools in that condition, although they were comparatively recently erected.
When building new schools, special care should be taken to provide a decent water supply and decent sanitation for the children. I knew one school erected 12 months ago, and, though there is a fall of one in 20 from the school down to a swift-flowing river, there is no sanitation, except a dry closet. Apparently there is no water at all. That is a disgraceful state of affairs and the people responsible for allowing it to continue deserve censure. It is very noticeable also that, when some of these new schools have been erected, the old schools can be repaired and turned into very fine buildings again, and I wonder if there should not be consideration of whether it would be a better paying proposition for everybody concerned to examine the old schools and see if it would be possible to put them into a state of repair rather than leave them for a few years and then turn them into dance halls or something which is not needed in the area.
I was very interested in Deputy Lindsay's speech. I think he made a very fine speech, despite his cheap sneer at the people who go into cinema queues in the evening. He should have sense enough to know that the people who go into these queues have to have some relaxation. I do not think that his suggestion, that children who are going to school—even some of those I have described—five days a week, should be taken into a different type of school on Saturday morning to become jacks-of-all trades, is one that will commend itself. He did not mention that they should get a legal training to enable them to look after their own defence, if they get into trouble with the courts, but he mentioned everything else. It was not a sensible suggestion in the centre of a very sensible speech.
Reference has been made to the booklet issued in regard to cruelty to children in schools. I do not think it can be brushed aside as easily as some people would try to brush it aside. I am not prepared to agree that all the people who complain of cruelty are just trouble makers. We have similar remarks made about people associated with prevention of cruelty to animals. Perhaps there are isolated cases amongst a very fine body, school teachers, of people taking advantage of small children and abusing them, and I know myself of some instances in various parts of the country where children have been abused by teachers who, as Deputy Lindsay has said, should never have become teachers. These children have been abused because they did not know their lessons and, in nine cases out of ten, that is the reason given for the punishment. I think it should be stopped.
There are two items to which I should like to refer, one of which is the amount of homework given to school children. I have intimate knowledge of how children are treated at school. While my children have the good luck to be going to a good school, I still believe that they and all other children are given far too much homework. When children have to travel a long distance to and from school, it is not right that they should have to spend three or four hours in the evening doing homework, because it means that they cannot get the fresh air they require.
The second thing I would like to mention is that in one area there is a school which takes children until they are ten and after that they must go to the local town, Drogheda, six miles away and travel by train. I know working class families which have to pay for four children—five in one case —travelling by train to Drogheda, pay for lunch in the town and pay for the books, out of a farmworker's wages of £4 10s. In circumstances like that, the Department should do something to have more schools erected in those thick centres of population where it would be easy to have them staffed.
On the question of woodwork teachers, I am told by the local C.E.O. that there is a great scarcity and for some reason or another they are not being turned out or encouraged as they should be. It may be said that those who would make teachers are not turning up. That could be so, because I gave the Minister a case quite recently —several weeks ago, but I suppose that is quite recently for a Government Department—of a man who had been turned down here. He had high marks but would not be recognised as a woodwork teacher because he failed to pass the oral examination. He had very high marks in other subjects. He went across to England and got the highest possible honours as a teacher of woodwork there. His services are still available to the State here, if it wishes to accept them. I have not got a reply to the question and, that being so, the excuse cannot be made that woodwork teachers cannot be got. In the country districts, potential teachers could easily be found and they should be trained, so that there may be far more woodwork classes in the country districts where they are badly needed.
Cuireann sé áthas orm a fheiceáil i mbliana gur labhair an meid Teachtaí agus a labhair ar an Meastachán seo. Chím go bhfuil cuid mhór Techtaí fós ar tí labhairt, Teachtaí nach múinteoirí iad. Is maith an comhartha é sin. Bhí sé beartithe agam féin labhairt ar fad in nGaeilg ar an Meastachán seo, ach toisc nach maith liom na daoine seo a choinneáil chomh fada sin, labharfaidh mé i mBéarla as seo amach.
I had intended to speak entirely in Irish on this Estimate, but while I am glad to notice that so many Deputies who are not teachers have contributed to the debate I do not wish to keep others who are waiting.
My interest is mainly concerned with primary education. We should consider what the aim of the primary schools should be. To my mind, it should be, in the main, the imparting of knowledge to our children, both religious and secular knowledge, and also to give them the key which would open up in after life wider fields of knowledge for those children. We should not try to cram into their young fresh minds too much knowledge of a varied character. We should not overload the programme. The aim should be to give a sound foundation of knowledge, together with the means and the methods whereby in after life they would be able to assimilate knowledge and increase year by year their store of knowledge.
Another important aim of our primary schools should be the fostering in each boy and girl of nationality, a love for this country. By that I mean not alone a love of freedom but a love of the Irish language, a love of Irish games, Irish dances, Irish customs and Irish music. That should be the second aim of our schools. Thirdly, an effort should be made by teachers to impress on their pupils the necessity of being good citizens of the State, to regard State property as their own. These are the aims which should guide the programme.
Much has been said for and against the programme at present in operation. Deputy Lindsay said there had been no change in the programme of secular instruction in national schools since 1923. To a great extent that is true, but we should remember that facts do not change, the facts we want our pupils to learn— the facts of reading, writing and arithmetic—are the same to-day as they were in 1923. For that reason, it is no harm that there has not been a great change in the basic programme. I would suggest that the programme be brought into one volume. I have here a few copies of programmes, with additions, and so on. My main grumble in regard to the national schools programme is that it is too wide, that too much is attempted, with the result that from the beginning of the school year the teacher—whether he has under his care one class or a number of classes—is rushing against the calendar. He has a defined course in each subject and he has a very large number of subjects—too large for a national school, too large for children up to the age of 14.
One disturbing feature is that the majority report of the Council of Education recommends a further addition to that already overloaded programme. The question arises as to how we could lessen the scope, how we could reduce the programme without interfering with the education of our children. I suggest that algebra be eliminated from the programme. When teaching arithmetic, unknown quantities can be introduced—find "x"—as one of the earlier speakers suggested. The introduction could be done there in regard to unknown quantities. The teaching of algebra as a subject in the school is, I think, not proper.
I would not agree with the recommendation in the Report of the Council of Education that further subjects, such as physical training, nature study and drawing should be added. These subjects would require a good deal of study by a number of the present teachers, a stock of suitable apparatus would be needed in the schools while time, the most important element of all, would be needed to carefully teach these extra subjects.
I am very strongly in favour of doing a smaller amount than is being attempted at the moment and in doing it well. I think that the great handicap which most of the children leaving our schools at the moment are labouring under is that, whatever knowledge they have, they are not definite in that knowledge. They have a gathering of vague knowledge and when asked a specific question their answer is rather vague. "It might be this or I think this is the position." Definiteness in the knowledge which they do acquire is most important. To quote spelling as an example. I know that a large number of the pupils leaving the national schools are not able to spell as well as they should. If asked to spell a word which is longer than the ordinary run of words, their attempts are bad indeed. Their speech and elocution is faulty all because the teacher has not the time to give them speech training. I would urge the Minister, when he is considering the Report of the Council of Education, that he should not be tempted to include further subjects as compulsory. The present programme is full enough, too full as it stands.
Much has been said and published on the question of Irish, and over the last year or two it has become a very controversial subject in the minds of members of the public. One group of people may say that too much Irish is being taught, others may say that too little is being taught, and there are some who maintain that Irish should not be taught until the pupil has reached a certain age. As Deputy Derrig has said, we must go back to what our aim is, and what it should be in regard to Irish. Our aim is to ensure that every pupil leaving the national school has a good knowledge of the language, that he is able to speak, read and write his native language. That is the aim. Then it is only a question of how best to arrive at the happy state when our pupils will be able to speak, read and write Irish well. I maintain that a beginning must be made on the first day the pupil comes to school.
That is the position at present, and that should be the position, that on the first day the pupil comes to school he or she should start to learn the Irish language. There is no other way. It is only by practice that can be done. We have to bring into the schoolroom the same conditions as those which exist in the home or try to reach a position as near as we can to those conditions, because it is by listening to the father and the mother and the other members of the household that the child learns his or her vernacular language. It is in the home that the first language is learned. If that first language is English, then we must, as soon as possible, start to teach the pupil the Irish language. The first opportunity that can be found to make that start is in the school.
I suggest that in the first few years, in the infants' first and second standards, less stress should be put on the writing and reading of Irish, and that those years should be devoted entirely to getting the child to speak freely in Irish. There should be free conversation in Irish in the first three years of a child's school life, and that should be as similar as possible to the home life of the child: that when the child comes into school in the morning the teacher should address it in Irish, and that incidental orders during the day, such as dún an doras, should be given to the pupils in Irish. From the first day the child should be encouraged to reply in Irish. If that is done, then as time goes on the child will build up a store of words, phrases and sentences. That pupil should not be compelled to write or read Irish for the first few years at school. I think it is when the intricacies of reading and writing in Irish are introduced that the child begins to see that there is a thorn underneath the rose. It is by getting the child in the early stages to love the language and to feel that he is making progress that we can best arrive at our goal.
Many people say that Irish is compulsory in the schools, that the Department is shoving Irish down the throats of the teachers and the children. Of course, that is not true. The regulation with regard to the teaching of Irish is quite clear and definite. Where a teacher is qualified to give instruction through the medium of Irish in subjects like arithmetic, history and geography and where the pupils are qualified and capable of assimilating that knowledge through the medium of Irish, then and only then, should Irish be used for the teaching of these subjects. That is very definite. The second part of the regulation applies as well as the first. Not only must the teacher be a qualified person capable of giving instruction but the pupils under his care must also be able to understand what is being taught to them.
Wise teachers will teach a subject like English if they find it is tugging and dragging to get that subject taught through the medium of Irish because they know that unless the children are able to grasp the intricacies of arithmetic, say, when it is taught through the medium of Irish, then the children's knowledge of that subject will be weak. There is no reason why any pupil leaving school should be weak in spelling or arithmetic. It was said here that pupils leaving the national schools are weak in spelling and arithmetic. It was said that the cause of that was that these subjects were taught through the medium of Irish. That should not happen. Subjects like arithmetic, geography or any other subject can be taught through the medium of English and pupils should leave school with a good knowledge of these subjects.
The progress that we would love to see in regard to the Irish language has not been made. We are not satisfied with the progress made. The fault does not lie with the schools. You have very many factors operating against the progress of Irish. We have the daily Press, the cinema and other factors. The daily Press could do a good deal more than they are doing to foster Irish and to encourage those who know Irish to speak it. It is a great pity that all the people who know and speak Irish do not use Irish more often. If we could get the people who know Irish to speak it, then we would have done a good deal. If the daily Press published interesting articles in Irish suitable for grown ups and also articles suitable for children it would be a great help.
The shortage of teachers at the moment is a factor which is worrying many managers throughout the country. We find schools which have not trained teachers over long periods and many managers have to appoint temporary teachers who are not qualified. I notice the Minister referred to that when introducing the Estimate. He even mentioned in his speech that the Department had allowed persons who had a pass Leaving Certificate to teach in schools. I know that there is a shortage of teachers and that the Department is doing everything possible or what it thinks possible to remedy the situation but that situation has prevailed now for three or four years or possibly more and it is not nearly solved yet. The extra numbers in training will not completely solve the problem in the next four or five years.
I noticed that some time ago the Minister agreed to extend the age for men teachers to 68 years. I think the Minister should open a second training college for men. Up to about ten years ago we had two training colleges for men in this State and I think we should get back to that position again. Of course, I remember that in the early 1930's the very opposite situation prevailed. We had too many trained teachers and trained teachers could not find permanent positions for three or four years after leaving the training college. Many of them, after leaving the college, went to Scotland, England and elsewhere. Some of them did not take up teaching again as a career.
The Minister should keep that in mind also and when dealing with this problem his remedy should be such that the Department would be assured of a steady flow of teachers. I know it is not easy to regulate that mathematically but his aim should be to go as near as possible to a situation in which we would have neither too many nor too few teachers at any time.
Another thing which the Minister should consider is the present method of recruitment of teachers to the profession. We have two methods—open competition and entrance to the teaching profession through the preparatory colleges. I do not know whether the method of bringing a number of boys or girls at the age of 14 or 15 into colleges, giving them a secondary education and then passing them all is satisfactory. Almost every student who enters a preparatory college at the age of 14 or 15 invariably qualifies eventually as a teacher.
I think the number of failures would be about 1 per cent. or even less. I maintain while it does help the percentage—I think 80 per cent. of the places in the preparatory colleges are for the children of Irish speakers in the Gaeltacht areas—to become members of the teaching profession and thereby pass on to the nation the benefit of their being native Irish speakers, I still think the system has its flaws. If, say, a group of children at the age of 14 was gathered together and put into a secondary school and told that they would eventually become doctors I do not think we would have the best doctors available. Neither do I think that those children some of whom might like to be solicitors, dentists or members of some other profession when they reach the age of 18 or 19 are able to decide at 14 what profession they would like to enter.
I think some of them would opt for some other profession, but just because they have been granted scholarships into preparatory colleges and because it has been understood from the very beginning that they are to become teachers and because of the fact that if afterwards they change their minds their parents—who, in many cases cannot afford to do so—would have to pay back to the Department a fairly substantial sum of money to recoup the Department for giving to the student the money which has been expended by the Department on his education to that stage, they continue.
I would not recommend that the Minister should go back to the old pupil-teacher or monitor days but in those days when a pupil from the national school started on his teaching career at that age of 14 or 15 in his own school or in some neighbouring school and got an idea of what was expected in a school, and when he afterwards went to college—well, they turned out good teachers in those days. They are turning them out still but we may have a percentage of teachers who are made rather than born. As some inspector told me once, a teacher is born not made.
Again, in the preparatory colleges I think more could be done to help the students to become national teachers. Unless the system has changed compared with what it used to be, from the day that the pupil entered the preparatory college to the day he left none of the professors or teachers there mentioned that he was destined to be a national teacher. There was no special instruction given other than is given in the ordinary secondary schools. There was no instruction in anything pertaining to the profession of teaching. I think that is a mistake, that, even before the student enters the training college, time should be given in the preparatory colleges to prepare him for the training college.
The Department should bring up to date all these programmes and notes and revised notes, rules and regulations. Every teacher has a file of additions to the rules and regulations, additions and subtractions from the programme, and it is very hard to know at times which is which, whether he has the right copy of the rules and regulations or whether anything has been added or whether any supplementary rules have been changed or not. I think a good deal of work could be done in that respect and it would help teachers very much if that were done.
After the programme and the teachers the next most important matter would be, I think, the school buildings themselves. It is pleasing no matter to what part of the country one goes to see very fine national schools erected or in course of erection. Certainly the plans being used by the Department are good. The layout and the planning of these schools is as good as anything anyone could desire. However, the repairs, the heating and cleaning of all schools is another matter and much neglect exists in regard to it. Sometimes it is due to the manager but in many cases in rural areas, in poor parishes, the manager, no matter how much he would like to do to keep the school in proper repair, provide adequate heating in winter time for the pupils and ensure that the school is thoroughly cleaned out at suitable times—no matter how much he would like to do these things he is prevented by the lack of funds.
I notice here—I wish it were amended but I think it has not been amended—that the grants towards repairs, heating and cleaning have not been altered since 1943. There is a schedule here giving the amounts of grants available to schools of different types ranging from the 30-pupil school to the 600-pupil school. No change has taken place in the amount of those grants since 1943—that is 12 years ago. The Minister knows well that the price of fuel has gone steeply up since those days, the prices of cleaning materials and labour have also increased steeply, and I would urge on the Minister that grants towards the repair, heating and cleaning of schools should be immediately increased.
Although most managers are anxious to attend to these matters, they cannot do it because the grants available are far too small. The result is that out of the parochial funds must come the balance, which is the major part of the cost. Just imagine a sum of £1 10s. for the heating of a school with 30 pupils. That is the Department's grant and it represents about three bags of coal for the period from, say, November to March or April. Even in the case of an 85 to 129-pupil school the grant is only £4 10s. That would be a school where there are two or three teachers and, therefore, two or three classrooms. The grants for cleaning of both schoolrooms and out-offices are small. This is such an important matter that I do want the Minister to consider it very carefully. This suggestion will save the Department fairly substantial sums of money. If the manager knew that if he carried out small repairs—and it is the small repairs that are important—and that when those repairs were done the amount of the grant he received would be a fair share of the cost, then he would do them immediately.
Another suggestion I would make to the Minister is that every new school which is built should have a water supply and that the aim of the Minister should be that in a reasonable time all schools should have a running water supply. Good water both for drinking and washing, is the main thing in the health of our citizens and it is essential that the children who attend school should have that available to them. The position in the largest percentage of our schools at the moment is that the children, at playtime, run to the nearest well or drain and have a drink, whereas with very little trouble water could be installed in the school.
Most of our country houses at the moment are availing of grants for the installation of water in their homes. People living in farm-houses are availing freely of the Department of Agriculture grant for the installation of water. Other houseowners are freely availing of the Department of Local Government grant of £50 for the installation of a water supply. I do not think our schools should be behind in this matter. In any event, as far as building is concerned, I am very pleased to note from the Minister's statement that the present drive in regard to the building of new schools is to be continued and improved upon. That is good and I would urge that he would pay attention to the other side-issues which are important.
This booklet here, "Punishment in our Schools", has caused some Deputies to contribute to this debate and it has caused a member of the Seanad also to contribute to a debate in that House. I think this is a slur on our people, a slur on our teachers, on our managers and on our educational system and that it was intended to be. The Minister should do something about ensuring that documents such as this will not be published. I know we are very fond of free speech and it is a good thing that we are but there are many things in this booklet with which I do not agree. It was prepared in a hurry and contains many inaccuracies. I notice that two-thirds of it contains letters from anonymous persons. In the main these letters attack various people; there is mention of the Holy Childhood Nuns, Christian Brothers, Reverend Managers, priests, nuns, convents, and so on. There is another suggestion at page 8 of this booklet which says:—
"Finally, the most drastic suggestion, yet probably the best, is that the maintenance of our national schools be administered by the local borough or county council, who ably assisted by parish committees could effect the necessary control and administration that is now, in many cases, non-existent, due to being vested in persons already overburdened and inexperienced in managerial functions."
I think that is the key to the whole thing, that the intention is that our schools should be handed over to State bodies.
The other side very definitely stress that they want to get rid of the priests, the pastors, the nuns and the Christian Brothers. It is clearer to put it that way.
That seems to be the purpose of this booklet and I am surprised a number of Deputies have followed blindly the line taken by the writer. By the way, the writer of the booklet is not known nor is the writer of the foreword. This production does not convince me and I hope it will not convince many other people.
Not known either by name or nationality.
I know from experience that our teachers do not inflict corporal punishment to the detriment of their pupils. Most of them are parents themselves. They understand what is required where children are concerned. They love children. We may admittedly get an odd case where court action is taken by a parent because it is alleged that excessive punishment has been administered. Fortunately, these cases are few and far between and I know there is no ground whatsoever for suggesting that excessive corporal punishment is administered in our primary schools. As a matter of fact, many teachers err on the other side. I know teachers who carry on from day to day and week to week without ever having to administer punishment of any kind.
I hold that the teacher is entitled to administer the same punishment that a parent would administer. That should be the guiding principle, and it is the guiding principle. If that principle is applied, then punishment will have to be meted out for wrong done knowingly by a pupil. Where the teacher knows that failure at lessons is due to the child's own negligence rather than to the child's lack of ability to learn, corporal punishment should be administered. When the child absents himself from school without permission or does not know his lessons for some other inexcusable reason, punishment should be administered. The majority of our teachers recognise that there are subjects at which some pupils will be slow. There may be problems in arithmetic, for instance, which a pupil cannot grasp no matter what pains the teacher takes. In such a case it is very rarely that the teacher resorts to corporal punishment or, in fact, to punishment of any kind.
I think every school, especially rural schools, should have a library. In the cities and towns public libraries are available but the rural schools are sadly neglected in that respect. I know from my own school days that, as a result of being interested in reading, I gained quite a store of knowledge. Admittedly, there are some pupils who will not read a book no matter how many books are available. Nevertheless, pupils in rural areas are handicapped because of the non-availability of suitable books. I suggest suitable books should be made available, such as books dealing with the history of our country, historical novels and travel books, and books dealing with the growing of trees and the cultivation of crops. Such books on a variety of subjects could usefully be placed at the disposal of the senior pupils in our primary schools and that would be of tremendous help to the teacher. It would also have the effect of keeping down the cinema queues, which were mentioned by some speaker, because boys and girls would become engrossed in reading instead of going to the pictures.
One speaker said that little progress was made in our primary schools today and that pupils were being turned out who could neither read nor write. That is something nobody will believe. The Minister has a record of the number of pupils who reached the sixth standard and I think that would represent a substantial percentage of the school-going population. Any pupil who spends a full year in the sixth standard and passes out of school with that programme fully assimilated has a good foundation on which to build.
In the Report of the Council of Education only children up to 12 years of age have been dealt with. It is only right that the Minister should continue now and ask that body to report on educational problems from 12 to 15 or 16 years of age rather than leave a gap by going on to a report on secondary school pupils, who, I maintain, are well able to look after themselves financially and otherwise. The emphasis seems to be on secondary education.
Deputy Lindsay made a plea for parity. Some time ago when I mentioned this matter the Minister for Finance brought to my notice the fact that the I.N.T.O. had given an undertaking not to agitate because the matter was more or less sub judice. I intend to stick to that advice. I agree with him that it would be better to leave that body as they are now and it is for that reason that I will not argue the pros of the matter at the moment. It is not because I have not as great an interest in the matter as some of the Deputies who spoke previously, but I would appeal, like Deputy Lindsay and others, on behalf of the pensioned teachers.
The Minister has reduced the Estimate for primary education by £113,000. He said it was in the main due to having cleared his conscience in this regard. I do not think anyone can say that justice has been done to those people or that there is the necessity to clear any conscience. The pre-1950 pensioned teachers have only got a measure, a percentage of justice. I would urge the Minister that he would go further and that he would reconsider the matter because I think it is a matter which should be considered again. During the term of office of the Fianna Fáil Government these ex-teachers were given gratuities. I thought and said at that time that it was not enough. Perhaps the present Minister would go a step further on behalf of this small body, the members of which have given great service to the country.
In regard to national teachers generally, I should like to point out that there are many people who are against them. It seems to me that it has become fashionable at times to say this, that and the other thing detrimental to this profession. I think the national teachers are a body of men and women who have done well, are doing well and will continue to do great work for this country. Not alone are they members of a great profession who perform their duties in that profession well, but their interests are much more varied and wider than that. Go into any Gaelic athletic club, any football or hurling club and you will find national teachers among its officer board. The same applies to Gaelic League affairs, camógie, Irish night classes, development committees, Red Cross Societies and a whole lot of cultural bodies. Statements have been made to the effect that pupils are leaving the schools uneducated and illiterate. I do not agree with that; our teachers are turning out well educated pupils and, as I have said, in every parish are doing useful organisation work in social and cultural activities.
Another Deputy gave well deserved praise to journals in Irish—such papers as Feasta, Inniu and Comhar and said that the Department was doing wisely in giving encouragement to these periodicals. I would like to recommend that the Department should assist An tUltach in the same way. It is a publication which is doing very good work and I would urge that the Minister would make a note of that.
Sin an méid atá le rá agam, cé go bhfuil a lán rudaí eile fágtha ach nach bhfuil an t-am lena n-aghaidh agus go bhfuil a lán Teachtaí eile le labhairt go fóill. Tá súil agam go mbreacfaidh an tAire ina aigne na poinntí a chuir mé ós a chomhair agus go gcuirfidh sé i bhfeidm iad.
I should like to preface my few remarks on this Estimate by saying that since I came into this House two years ago I have not listened to a more constructive debate on any matter and I think that good example should be followed in many other such debates. I do not think it is too much to hope that when we are talking about education particularly we will educate ourselves and accordingly approach future Estimates and future debates in the same manner as we approached this debate here this evening. I had intended to make reference to a number of points but most of the speakers before me have dealt with them. I shall not, therefore, weary the House by going back on these points.
I should, however, like to bring to the Minister's attention the appalling conditions of some of the rural schools. I know of cases in North and East Cork where the conditions are nothing short of criminal and where the sanitary conditions are, to say the least, scandalous. There have been efforts made to try to fix the blame as to who should remedy this state of things, but I believe that in the last analysis the Minister is responsible. While it is true that those of us who are members of local authorities advise and assist in some cases in regard to water supplies for private dwellings it speaks very badly of us that we neglect our public buildings such as our schools which have from 60 to 100 of our young people in occupation for a great part of their daily lives. I cannot too deeply impress on the Minister the utter necessity for seeing that the state of our schools will not be tolerated much longer. It may be the Board of Works who are at fault, the schools managers may be at fault but the condition of some of our schools should not be tolerated and I would ask the Minister to have steps taken to have this matter attended to as soon as possible.
It would be a good thing if the Minister or the Department saw fit to make a greater number of scholarships available for national school pupils. In many cases they are the sons and daughters of small farmers and cottiers who, through their own financial circumstances, cannot bring out all that is best in these pupils. If there were more scholarships made available for national school pupils, we would find that many citizens who are lost to us or who are doing something that is not good for the nation or themselves, being fitted for some professional occupation in which they could help themselves and the nation.
Deputy Cunningham and others mentioned the overcrowded syllabus in primary schools. I entirely agree that the syllabus is overcrowded but, no matter how overcrowded it is, no matter what subject may be curtailed or eliminated, I would strongly suggest that there should be at least one half-hour on two or three days a week given to the teaching of civics. It is strange but true, and it is hard to say here, that many of our younger boys and girls, especially in towns and cities, are really so many vandals. The only cure is the introduction of civics in national schools.
It is sad that there is so much disrespect for our national flag, our national emblem. By even that half-hour lesson in civics a great deal could be done to teach boys and girls respect and pride for their nation and their people.
Breathes there a man with soul so dead
Who never to himself hath said
This is my own, my native land.
I am afraid we have many in this country who do not realise their nation. I am sure they were reminded in their school days of the nation and the pride they should have in their possession of it. I, therefore, advocate the inclusion in the curriculum of national schools of civics for half an hour on a couple of days a week.
I did not hear anyone referring to adult education. That also is very important. We in the South of Ireland can say that it has done a great deal of good. It is true that there are some members in this House who would not be here were it not for the course of adult education there. Whether that is a good or bad thing for them or for the nation, I do not know. Adult education should be encouraged. It has certainly done great work in the South of Ireland. If finances are impeding progress in this matter, that impediment should be removed.
Deputy A. Byrne referred to a section of children who, he thought, were being neglected. He referred to them as retarded children. They could be more aptly described as mentally defective. He said that there was not enough accommodation for them. I entirely agree. We should place on record in this House our appreciation of the Brothers of Charity for what they are doing for those children. While they are not regarded as teachers, they are handling and teaching these unfortunate children in a splendid way, thus relieving their parents and the State of the responsibility that would otherwise be theirs.
I also wish to refer to the number of foreign students who are gaining admission to our universities, I might say, to our overcrowded universities. The sons and daughters of princes are coming to our universities and gaining admission while we cannot make room for some of our own people. That matter should be considered and, where possible, accommodation should be given to our own people first.
I do not think I should conclude without referring to the principal point in this debate, namely, the teaching and revival of Irish. I did all subjects in the leaving and intermediate certificates, except English, through Irish. I liked Irish and I would like to do what I could to foster its revival but I do not think the teaching of it in the schools has the desired effect. I do not think the compulsory teaching of it has the desired effect. For that reason, I would ask the Minister and the Department to get the views of those who have gone through this programme, to see what has happened them in later life, to see what use, if any, they are making of the Irish they learned in the schools.
In conclusion, I want to say that I welcome the constructive way in which the debate has taken shape and I express the hope that in future all debates in this House will take the same pattern.
I agree with my colleague, Deputy Richard Barry, in his reference to the debt we in this State owe to such a community as the Brothers of Charity at Lota, Glanmire. There must be a way whereby these people will get some recompense for all they are doing for these children. I would urgently call on the Minister, in co-operation with his colleague, the Minister for Health, to see that the members of this order, who are doing outstanding work in the education of these unfortunate boys, will receive some consideration. It is well that the Minister should know from us that the allocation that has been made to these Brothers for the maintenance of these children does not cover the education given to them. Therefore, it is our duty to draw the Minister's special attention to that matter.
The Minister spoke of the building of national schools. We agree with him, of course, that great progress is being made and has been made in relation to the building of national schools but we cannot rest there and say that everything in the garden is lovely. It is my experience and I am sure that of other Deputies that that is not the case. The Minister himself mentioned the problem of staffing of the section of the Board of Works that deals with the preparation of plans and drawings and estimates for national schools.
The statement made by the Minister would imply that the Commissioners of Public Works report that, because of conditions or salary scales, they cannot get sufficient members of the profession of architects or other staff needed. If that is the case, there must be something wrong. I can enumerate cases which have been held up. I am not blaming either the Minister or his Department nor do I blame the existing staff of the Board of Works, but cases of reconstruction of national schools have been held up for two years.
In fairness to the Board of Works, I must say that I believe that the section dealing with this matter is understaffed. We must tackle that problem. It is not sufficient for us to say that we will sit back and do nothing because, apparently, there may be some rift between the Commissioners of Public Works on the one hand and the organisations to which architects and engineers belong and, therefore, we cannot get sufficient personnel.
Deputy Barry and Deputy Cunningham mentioned sanitary conditions in our national schools. I do not want to elaborate on that subject now except to say that I perfectly agree with their remarks. It is deplorable to think that in so many parts of rural Ireland the sanitary conditions obtaining in our national schools are something frightful. We have had native Government for the past 30 years but unfortunately no effective financial approach has been made towards the solution of this problem. We realise it is a matter that is not easily tackled either by the local manager or by the parishioners. The problem cannot be solved overnight but I would appeal to the Minister to consider the whole matter within the next 12 months with a view to bringing about an improvement in the unsanitary conditions that exist in so many of these national schools.
I agree also with the remarks made by Deputy Cunningham on the subject of the cleaning, firing and maintenance of schools. It is not so many years ago when we were going to school ourselves. I remember that we all had to bring our 2/6 at the start of the school year—around October or November— to help towards the cost of the cleaning, firing and maintenance of the school. I am not saying that that was an excellent system but surely it is fantastic for people to expect whatever Government may be in office to give them grants for everything and not to do anything themselves? I spoke on this subject last year and the year before that again, when Fianna Fáil were in office. I believe that some of the responsibility must be placed on the shoulders of the people in the locality. The matter could easily be settled by the various communities with the co-operation of the local manager, the school teachers and the parents of the children. Surely it would be possible for them, through various social events and concerts during the winter, to get together a sufficient amount of money to provide for the cleaning, firing and maintenance of their school?
It is essential that the local community should have a pride in the local school because, after all, it is their property. That local school is the building in which every boy and girl in the parish is educated. In later years, when we have left school and have perhaps rambled many miles away from the locality, it is with pride that we look back on the time when we went to that school. Then, again, when we are no longer pupils at the school and when we have escaped from the authority of the school teacher whom we feared and respected so much while we were attending school, we look back on the happy days we spent there and we like to talk about them.
We hear talk about national monuments but I submit that the school is a monument wherein we get whatever education we have and also wherein we get something which is lacking in many children at the present time, that is, respect for our elders and for people as a whole. I believe it is very important to insist that the people of the locality, through their own local committees, should concentrate on the task of making the school building something to be proud of and keeping it in a fit condition rather than calling on the Minister for Education or the Government to do everything in the way of providing for its cleaning, firing and maintenance.
I agree with what has been said by many Deputies on the subject of the system of education. Perhaps we Deputies in the rural areas have a different outlook from that of other Deputies on this subject. I am speaking now of national schools when I say I am of the opinion that it would be very beneficial to our young boys and girls in the country if the educational programme had a more rural bias. We hear a lot of talk about the flight from the land, but I believe that, even in the national schools, the present system of education is such that no encouragement is given to a boy or girl to stay on the land. Many Deputies mentioned the different subjects that are studied in the schools and also perhaps the necessity, at times, of curtailing the number of such subjects.
In my view, it is essential that, especially in schools in rural Ireland, the girls would be given some instruction in domestic economy and the boys instruction in, for instance, rural science. There is no need for anybody to be ashamed of the fact that he comes from the country, and it is only when we have left the country that we begin to realise all the advantages it had. If we can educate our young boys and girls to a realisation of what they can get from the rural areas we may do much better work than by teaching them some of the subjects which have the effect of turning the young minds towards the cities and even to countries overseas.
A few years ago I spoke on the subject of choral singing and the teaching of traditional music in our schools. I recollect that the present Minister was interested in the matter and had much to say about it. I am sure he is taking the whole matter into consideration. I feel our young boys and girls in rural Ireland and, indeed, in the cities should be able to benefit from the very fine work in relation to Irish music which has been done by the Rev. Fr. Ó Floinn of Passage West. The present Minister very graciously paid a tribute here to this reverend gentleman a few years ago, and mentioned that he was aware of the debt of gratitude which was due to Fr. Ó Floinn. I wonder if any further steps have been taken towards the making of gramophone recordings of our traditional music and towards the furtherance of choral singing? I should like to see our young people benefiting as a result of the research work in music which Fr. Ó Floinn has been concentrating on for so many years past. I shall not dwell on this matter now because I am convinced that the Minister's approach to it is such that he will do his utmost to make available to our national schools the benefit of some of the worthwhile work which has been done through the outstanding ability of Fr. Ó Floinn.
Deputy Cunningham mentioned preparatory training colleges and I must say that I agree with his remarks. I wonder if we are getting everything we are hoping for through the present system? We are all aware that, in many cases, it is very difficult for young boys and girls, through open competitive examination, to get into training colleges but there is not the same difficulty in the case of a boy or girl at the age of 12 or 13 being examined for entry into a preparatory training college. However, there is something more than that in all this question and I think many people have a grievance. First of all, I wish to say that I want the Irish language but I do not want to see it abused. I do not want people to be able to obtain privileged positions in this country by the use of the language not for the glory of the language but for what can be got out of it. I fear that many people have a very materialistic outlook in regard to the Irish language. I want to see the language loved and spoken for its own sake.
I want to bring to the notice of the Minister a grievance and, in a way, it concerns the Irish language. The Minister may be aware that, as recently as last year, there were 72 vacancies for girls in the preparatory training colleges. I am informed that 36 of the 72 vacancies were confined to girls from the Gaeltacht. I feel deeply about this matter because I was very interested in one of the candidates. Not alone were 50 per cent. of the vacancies confined to girls coming from the Gaeltacht but, as I was informed at one stage by an official of the Department, a girl who got 70th place in the examination would not be placed among the 72 candidates chosen for entry into the preparatory colleges. I am not satisfied with such a state of affairs. While we realise how much we owe to the people of the Gaeltacht, who have the living Irish and who are using it, we must be fair to the boy or girl coming from an area which is not classified as a Gaeltacht area.
We must bear in mind that these boys and girls are reared and trained in areas very different in outlook from that which prevails in Gaeltacht areas. Why, then, should there be such discrimination between the two sets of children? These boys and girls are reared and trained in very different areas and if, when they compete for entry into these colleges, they get first class honours in every other subject and a pass in Irish, while students from the Gaeltacht get a pass in every subject and first class honours in Irish, why should there be such a differentiation in favour of the child from the Gaeltacht? It may be said that we are antagonistic towards these young students, but that is not the truth, but the danger is this that a boy or girl who is highly proficient in Irish but only barely able to get a pass in other subjects, after a few years in a preparatory training college and two years more in the training college itself, comes out and is given the responsibility of educating young boys and girls.
I ask that this matter be closely examined, and I suggest that what we want in these preparatory training colleges and in the training colleges are students of the highest possible degree of educational ability. There is a far greater responsibility placed on a young man or woman in regard to educating children than many people realise. I agree with Deputy Cunningham that this is an Estimate, as we have always maintained, in the discussion of which we can say there is no political bickering from one side or the other.
Deputy Cunningham was perfectly correct in drawing special attention to this famous booklet in relation to the treatment of school children. In my case, the school teacher who had the job of trying to put a bit of sense into me is still alive and still teaching, and I wonder, in view of what has been put in print in this booklet, how we ever escaped, and I wonder also how it could be possible for men who were so humane when we were under their care to change their natures so completely. They had as much difficulty trying to educate us as teachers have with children at the present time, and I wonder how it could be that overnight, as it were, these teachers could become so inhuman in their approach to the education of children.
We have our own views about this pamphlet and we know full well that from start to finish, it is nothing but an attack on the religious orders in this country, in relation to the wonderful work they are doing for education. Perhaps if the writer of that booklet and those who were so generous as to contribute to it over initials and noms de plume had the blessed luck to have been educated by the Christian Brothers or some of the other religious communities, their outlook would not be so warped as it is. They either want to have State education here by cutting out completely teaching by these religious communities, or else they want the school teachers to be so timid in their approach to the handling of children that children will get no education at all. We all agree that if there are cases of the ill-treatment of a child, they should certainly be exposed—we would not stand for it—but we know that it is vitally essential that a certain degree of control must be given to the teacher in his handling of children because if a child realises that a school teacher is not in control during school hours, that child will suffer in future years through a complete lack of education.
I agree again with the remarks of Deputy Cunningham regarding the teaching of Irish, and my own personal opinion is that we might get much better results if, for the first few years of the child's school life, he or she was not in the position of having the burden of reading and writing in Irish imposed on him. I suggest that it should be built up gradually to a system of conversation in Irish. I do not think we are getting the best possible results from the teaching of other subjects through the medium of Irish. In our school days, we learned Irish as a language. We had to try to read it, to write it and to converse in Irish, but it could not be said when we left school that we were not able to spell fairly long English words, or not able to converse in Irish sufficiently well for anyone to understand us. I know that a Corkman is understood, no matter where he goes; nevertheless we got the training there which gave fairly good results, but the tragedy of the present day is that the teaching of English or mathematics through the medium of Irish can be very confusing.
I recall the case of a businessman in the village I come from who, a few years ago, was looking for a girl to keep accounts during the busy months of the summer. He got two girls from the local school. They were excellent girls, well mannered and well conducted, but they had been taught through the medium of Irish. The man had no Irish and the girl could only do the accounts through Irish, and the result was that you would think that one came from Japan and the other from Gibraltar. I consider that it was not fair to that girl because, by the system of education, she was placed in a position in which she was unable to continue to enjoy the employment she had secured.
I believe that if we concentrate on Irish as a language, if our boys and girls can be taught the value of reading and writing in Irish and, above all, of conversing in Irish, better use will be made of it and there will not be this continuous complaining by people who do not want Irish at all and who at present are building up a case, part of which is very hard to refute because many of our boys and girls, as Deputy Cunningham said, find it very difficult to spell words of medium length.
My last remark is a remark I am becoming tired of making because nothing ever seems to be done about it. I am not saying that, because I say it, anything should be done, but I feel that in relation to this particular financial burden which is placed on the parents of children, I must keep after it until something is done. I refer to the changing of school books every year. That system is outrageous and there is no reason for it. Take the case of two boys, the sons of a farm worker, a road worker or any other kind of worker. One is in fourth class and the other is in third class. At the end of the school year, the boy in fourth class goes up to fifth and the other boy goes up to fourth, but apparently our system of education is so wonderful that the books used by the boy who is now in fifth class will not do for the other boy.
I am not satisfied about this and I believe there is a ramp somewhere in it. I do not suggest that it exists in the case of the Minister or the Department, but somebody in making money out of it and the unfortunate victims are the parents. Year after year, we have complaints from these people. They complained in August and September in regard to the books that would be needed and that the price was soaring. I would ask the Minister to go into this and get some results. As long as I am in a position to speak, I will condemn this vicious practice by people who are prepared to make money at the expense of the community for their own ill-gotten ends.
Nuair a labhair an Teachta Ó Maoláin ar dtús, dhein sé gearán i dtaobh siúinéirí a tóghadh, fé gheallúint a thabhairt dóibh, agus ansin nach raibh postanna le fáil acu. Ní dóigh liom gur mar sin a bhí an scéal. An rud adúirt an Teachta Tully, chruthuigh sé nach mar sin a bhí an scéal. Ar aon chuma, le tamall anuas bhí easpa múinteoirí Adhmadóireachta orainn agus cuireadh chun an scéal sin a réiteach—ar trí 23 a cuireadh isteach, 19 le cúrsaí Adhmadóireachta agus 20 le cúrsaí Foirgníochta Tuaithe. Bhíodar sin le teacht amach i 1953 agus tá siad tagtha amach anois. Anuraidh, do cuireadh 20 isteach ar chúrsaí Adhmadóireachta agus 20 eile le cúrsaí Foirgneolaíocht Tuaithe, agus tá tuille ag teacht isteach an bhliain seo chugainn; agus, i mbliana, bhí 20 eile ag dul isteach ar chúrsaí.
Ní dúirt go mbeadh áiteanna le líonadh, agus ní raibh an scéal mar sin go mbeadh postanna le fáil acu agus go bhféadfaidís dul go dtí áiteanna. Níl aon fhírinne leis sin.
Is é an rud adúradh leis na daoine a rinne an cúrsa ins an siúinéireacht, go mbeadh postanna le fáil acu, ach mar gheall ar chúrsaí eile mar Fhoirgneolaíocht go raibh an scéim sin ag cur isteach orthu. Do theastaigh ón Aire go bhfhaigheadh siad—na foirgneolaithe—na postanna siúinéireachta atá ar fáil gidh go raibh na siúinéirí oilte ar dtúis. Isí an fhadhb go raibh an chéad éileamh acu ar na postanna sin, agus gur chaill siad postanna dá bhárr.
Tá coistí ar fud na tíre ullamh chun glaoch orthu, le tuille múinteoirí adhmadóireachta a bheith acu. Tá mé ag iarraidh an scéal sin a laghas, nach mbeidh an gearán ann nach bhfuil postanna ann do na múinteoirí, toisc go raibh athrú againn. Tá mé ag iarraidh anois a chur ar chumas na gcoistí gairm-oideachais ar fud na tíre na múinteoirí go léir atá ag teastáil uathu a bheith acu. Is fearr breis múinteoirí a bheith ann i gcóir na gcoistí sin ná go mbeadh ar na coistí gan buíonta do chur ar siubhal toisc nach bhfuil múinteoirí ann.
Nach bhfuil sé le tuigsint, nuair a cuirtear daoine tré chúrsaí go bhfuigheadh siad postanna, sé sin le rá, nach mbeadh aon athrú ann, ins an am ó thosaigh an duine ar an gcúrsa, le nach mbeadh folúntasaí ar fáil dhó.
Ní ceist é aon athrú a bheith déanta ná aon éagóir a bheith déanta ag lucht na Roinne ar choistí a chosc ar na múinteoirí adhmadóireachta postanna fháil. Má tá aon chás fá leith ann go bhféadfaí a chur os mo chomhair breithneod an scéal agus déanfad pé ní is féidir chun an scéal a leigheas. Ar aon chuma, tá muid ag déanamh ár ndícheall ag iarraidh dul chun cinn, ins gach aon áit ar fud na tíre i gcóir obair adhmadóireachta agus miotalóireachta. Is dóigh liom go bhfuil teacht againn anois ar an oiread sin múinteoirí a bheith againn agus a bheidh ag teastáil. Da mba rud é go raibh an méid múinteoirí againn fá láthair, ní bheimis ag cosnú ag glaoch ar 20 múinteoir eile teacht go dtí cúrsaí i mbliana— agus tá muid á dhéanamh sin. Teaspáineann sé sin an creideamh atá againn nach bhfuil an scéal mar atá uaite ag an Teachta Ó Maoláin ná an Teachta Ó Deirg. Tá aiteanna ar fud na tíre atá i gcruadhchás ag fanúint le múinteoirí mar seo. Tá mé deimhneach ná beadh aon duine acu sin in easpa poist.
Dúradh leis go raibh saghas riail ann i dtaobh gairm-oideachais, ná ceadódh an tAire Airgeadais do na coistí níos mó ná aon scoil amháin a bheith á tógáil in aon bhliain amháin. Ní dóigh liom go bhfuil aon riail mar sin ann, agus má tá aon eolas ag aon Teachta go bhfuil a leithéid ar siúl, is féidir sin a chur fé mo bhráid. Táim deimhnitheach nach é an míniú atá tugtha an míniú a bheadh air. Tá a lán áiteanna sa tír agus tá na coistí réidh le scoileanna nua a thógáil. Dá mbeadh an t-airgead againn d'fhéadfaí ligint do na coistí go léir dul ar aghaidh chomh luath agus is féidir leis na scoileanna atá ceaptha amach acu. Tuigfidh siad go maith nach féidir dul ar aghaidh leis na scoileanna go léir in aon bhlian amháin. Bhí cainnt agam le Coiste Dhún na nGall agus le cuid eile de na Coistí chun a shocrú cad é an riar a bheadh ann na scoileanna atá ceaptha acu-san a chur suas, i dtreó is go mbeadh aontú eadrainn go mbeadh na scoileanna do réir a leithéid i mbliana agus a leithéid an bhliain ina dhiaidh sin; agus tá deimhniú annsin nach bhfuil cead aca ach aon scoil amháin a thógáil. Socrú dá shórt sin is fearr a réiteodh le scéim oibre mar sin agus leis an airgead atá againn.
I would like to express my appreciation, too, of the general points that have arisen in this debate and the way in which they have been presented. I have been asked by Deputy Moylan am I an educationalist. I do not know what the test is that would be applied or what the result would be if it were applied.
In approaching the work of the Department of Education I do not approach it as a person with any finicky ideas or personal ideas as to what should or should not be done inside a class room. I approach the work of the Department generally with some personal experience of primary schools and of secondary schools and with a certain amount of experience of what has gone on in the technical schools, in the City of Dublin at any rate. Given that, I consider that my function is to look at the personnel throughout the country who can be or should be considered educationalists by reason of the position they occupy in the educational world and the experience that they have there, and to endeavour to bring together the thought of such people through such inquiries and such institutions as can best ensure that those who have a contribution to make to the work and the manner in which the work will be carried on will have at their disposal an orderly set of institutions through which their contributions can be made available in the best posible way to serve through the different branches of our education the different and the many needs of our people in their various walks of life. I move to report progress.
