Dáil Éireann debate -
Wednesday, 22 Feb 1956

Vol. 154 No. 5

Committee on Finance. - Vote 54—Posts and Telegraphs.

Minister for Posts and Telegraphs (Mr. Keyes)

I move:—

That a sum not exceeding £85,000 be granted to defray the Charge which will come in course of payment during the year ending on the 31st day of March, 1956, for the Salaries and Expenses of the Office of the Minister for Posts and Telegraphs (45 and 46 Vict., c. 74; 8 Edw. 7, c. 48; 1 and 2 Geo. 5, c. 26; the Telegraph Acts, 1863 to 1953; No. 45 of 1926; No. 14 of 1940 (Secs. 30 and 31); No. 14 of 1942 (Sec. 23); No. 17 of 1951, etc.), and of certain other Services administered by that Office.

The Estimate for Posts and Telegraphs already approved by the Dáil for the financial year ending 31st March, 1956, amounts to £7,707,000. Owing to causes which could not be foreseen, this provision will be insufficient and an additional sum of £85,000 will be required to meet expenditure up to the end of the financial year. The gross extra expenditure on the sub-heads for which the original provision is insufficient is estimated at £196,000.

The sub-heads affected and brief explanations of the causes of the increases are as follows:—

Sub-head A (2) — increase £66,000: due to pay awards and the cost of additional staff for increased telephone and postal traffic, offset by reduction in staff for telegraph traffic; sub-head A (3)—increase £57,000: the increased sum is required to meet pay awards; sub-head E (5) — increase £22,000: air mail traffic increased to a greater extent than anticipated. The additional traffic, it will be appreciated, produces increased revenue which more than offsets the increased cost of conveyance by air.

There is an increase of £15,000 in sub-head I (1).

The amount provided under the sub-head in the original Estimate is a net figure which is arrived at by deducting from the total cost of the salaries, wages and allowances that portion of it which is attributable to telephone capital works and which is proper to be paid from telephone capital funds. The relief to the sub-head by this process was less than originally estimated.

The increase of £7,000 in sub-head I (2) is due to an increase in the rates of subsistence allowances; the increase in sub-head K is £13,000 and is due to greater consumption of certain stores than was anticipated; and the increase of £16,000 in sub-head N (1) is due to the number of retirements from the service being greater than anticipated.

The increases to which I have referred amount to £196,000. Against this, however, savings on other sub-heads amounting to £69,000 will be available and, in addition, Appropriations-in-Aid (sub-head T) will be higher than estimated by £42,000, leaving a net sum of £85,000 now to be provided. The reason for the increase in the Appropriations-in-Aid is that more obsolete stores than estimated became available for sale and prices realised were higher than expected. This increase was partly offset, however, by reduced receipts from the Social Insurance Fund.

Mr. Childers

I should like to ask the Minister certain questions about the different sub-heads. It is noted there has been a reduction in the amount of capital expenditure. Why? In view of the fact that the telephone service is self-paying, I always regard it as a pity if the amount of capital expenditure in a given year has to be reduced, owing to the fact that some envisaged plans have not materialised. I notice also that the cost of engineering materials is increased in the Estimate. I should like to ask the Minister if the increased cost is just for current maintenance, or whether it has been due, to some extent, to an increase in the amount of capital work done and whether it will be to that extent offset in the capital account.

I should also like to ask whether the reduction in the capital sum to be spent is due to any delays in the recabling of Dublin, because I understood from the Minister that that was progressing satisfactorily, and I should hate to think there was any setback in the scheme in general, because, as the Minister knows, it is one of very great urgency. It will be possible, when the scheme is completed, for people to get their telephones far more quickly in a number of Dublin regions.

I should also like to ask the Minister whether the pay increases in this Estimate are the result of conciliation and negotiations which took place within the Post Office service, or whether they relate to the general increase in the pay awards which forms the subject of the next Estimate but one, under the title of "Remuneration"; in other words, whether they are individual schemes for increased pay, or part of the general award made recently. If they relate to the general award, I should like to ask whether they include any increase in pay for the female staff, whose remuneration by any standard has been very, very low for a considerable number of years, and about which there were difficulties relating to Civil Service standards in general. In other words, successive Ministers have found it difficult to raise the salaries of that particular class of person, which, I think, during my term of office amounted to some £3 10s. a week, and the girls employed, for some reason or other, were largely non-residential persons who came from the country. I should like to ask the Minister whether the pay award includes that particular class of person.

In connection with this general Estimate, which involves increases in pay awards and in certain expenditures and reductions in others, I should like to ask whether the increase in the case of engineering materials or the decrease in capital expenditure has any relation to the reorganisation proposals in the engineering department which were under way when the last Government was defeated, and which related to rerouting, redeployment of gangs, redistribution of stores, and control of stores, redeployment of the district offices, and the alteration in the areas of control, and a number of other matters. I should like to ask the Minister whether those plans have any relation to the present Estimate.

There was a proposal at that time to secure more efficiency in the service by the method of recruiting certain classes of officers, and there was a temporary period when it looked as though there might be less of a staff employed on telephone development work until the time would come when, as a result of reorganisation of the whole staff, more gangs could be recruited and the work could go on at a greater pace than ever. I should like to ask the Minister whether this increase in the pay award has any relation to some of the decisions being made at that time.

Finally, I should like to ask the Minister what his view is of the general increase in this Estimate. I think it is extremely bad for the Department of Posts and Telegraphs, and worse still for the country, to have the taxpayer pay any portion of the increased cost of this service. There have been very considerable increases in the cost of the service, and so far as I know the Minister has found it difficult, and still finds it difficult, to make the service pay. The rising tide of inflation that has taken place for a considerable number of years made his task still more difficult. I want to ask him does he intend to make the taxpayer pay for this or to finance it in some other way when he comes to the question of the main Estimate for his Department.

Mr. A. Byrne

I wish to ask the Minister if he will explain the cause of the delay at St. John's Road, Inchicore, where there are a number of casual men who have been left without an increase in wages that ordinary everyday workers have received. These casual men — we will call them permanent casuals—have been denied the increase which the ordinary workers on the road have got, and they are all doing the same type of work. This is not the first time it has happened. I understand that last year and the year before an increase was granted and certain casual types of men were left without the increased wages. One man representing 12 or 14 wrote to me and said: "Dear Alderman Byrne: We are all doing the same work and we all eat the same loaf. It costs the same."

Mr. Cunningham

Was that the new loaf?

Mr. A. Byrne

That was the loaf I could not swallow.

Mr. Cunningham

You tried to make other people swallow it.

Mr. A. Byrne

They say that when it was brought up a year ago, and two or three years ago, there was to be a discussion in some internal department and a decision that they were to get the award. I merely ask the Minister to pass that instruction on without delay, to say that casual men doing the same kind of work as other ordinary road workers or labourers engaged at St. John's Road will get the benefit of the award, with the arrears.

Mr. Keyes

At the outset, I want to say that there has been no reduction at all in the capital expenditure. Deputy Childers is aware that this is more of a book-keeping transaction. The estimated amount at the start of a year, and how much work is to be done in a particular period, is decided as far as possible by the engineer, and he adjusts how much of that is on capital account. It is not easy to be accurate on this in advance, and on many occasions, practically every year, there is some difference between the estimated amount and the actual expenditure. But there is no reduction whatever in the capital expenditure.

In connection with the cabling of Dublin, it is going on apace. Everything possible is being done to speed up the position because it is very unfortunate to have to refuse various applications for telephones; and, in addition to the staff of the Department working overtime, we have engaged a contractor who is giving very considerable help at the moment in the City of Dublin and on to Dún Laoire, which were the two big points of loss. We are not up-to-date with it yet, but I think we are making very good and speedy progress. Throughout the country, we have been able to overhaul a number of long-standing arrears for long line phones. We are not yet happy about the position, but we have done very good work in the year past. We got in 7,800 phones and there was a good deal of difficulty in getting to that point. I hope that we will be able to do better than in previous years and enable the position to improve still further.

There is no connection in this Estimate with the reorganisation proposed by the Deputy. This is just supplementary.

In connection with wages, the pay increases are not the Civil Service award at all. They are the wages of the workers negotiated by the Department through the unions, and they are not connected with the Civil Service award, which is not covered by this. The sorting assistants are included in the pay award.

With regard to the point introduced by Deputy Byrne, if he will give me particulars of that, I will get after it immediately. I do not know the particular case to which he referred.

Mr. A. Byrne

Your private secretary and the secretary of the Department have had all the details from me within the past fortnight, and told me the matter is coming up at an interdepartmental committee.

Mr. Keyes

That is the Stores Branch? I can tell you that the Stores Branch, as a matter of fact, is to come up next Friday and when an award is made, it will be implemented instantly.

Mr. A. Byrne

I was told it was coming up last Friday and last Friday week, and this Friday. Now it is next Friday.

Mr. Keyes

It will come before the inter-departmental committee next Friday and will be instantly implemented. I think those are the main points I want to make, and I thank the House very much for their reception of the Estimate.

Vote put and agreed to.