The purpose of these two amendments is to bring up this question of bedded minerals. I made it clear that my interest in this regard is mainly in connection with the effect of the Bill on the development of Irish coal deposits. The Minister's case for the Bill as a tax measure was that it was necessary in our circumstances to get business people interested in what he described as the somewhat chancy business of seeking and working com mercially minerals here; that the exploration of minerals requires very heavy expenditure; and that capital must be committed to the enterprise involving a greater risk of failure than would be associated with a normal commercial enterprise.
If the case for giving tax incentives for the working of non-bedded minerals is that, precisely the same case can be made for giving tax incentives for the working of what are called bedded minerals. I would admit that there is the possibility of argument that the working of gypsum deposits in the Monaghan-Cavan-Meath area is in a different position from the working of coal deposits in other areas.
The Government of this State during my time spent a great deal of money on the exploration of gypsum deposits in that district and as a result that exploration revealed the existence of valuable and extensive deposits for a number of commercial firms engaged in the mining and processing of that gypsum. Having regard to the amount of State money already spent upon exploration work there, having regard to the competition which existed between commercial firms for leases of the minerals and to the nature of the working itself, the depth of the seams, their closeness to the surface, the methods of working which can be employed, I would be inclined to accept the contention that there is a difference between the working of gypsum deposits and the working of coal measures which might justify some difference in the tax arrangements applying to them. I do not agree at all that there is not as strong a case for giving tax incentives for the working of coal —indeed, I could contend that it is stronger than the case the Minister made for the giving of tax incentives for the working of non-bedded minerals.
If incentives are needed to get people to show a greater interest in developing our non-bedded mineral deposits then incentives are also needed to get people to show a greater interest in our coal deposits. Exploration and development expenditure on Irish coal-mines is necessarily very heavy. The main difficulty in developing Irish coal-mines is the very high proportion of non-productive expenditure which has to be undertaken because of the relative narrowness of the coal seams. The risk of failure is considerably greater than in normal commercial enterprise, as indeed the records of the Department of Industry and Commerce will show.
The Minister's argument against extending the relief given by this Bill to coal-mining was that the contents of these non-bedded deposits are capable of being more readily assessed than in the case of non-bedded ores and that their extraction is much more akin to normal commercial operation. He represented me as pretending that there is no distinction between bedded and non-bedded deposits or in the difficulties involved in their mining and said that operators did not have to invest the same heavy type of capital in the working of bedded minerals as is necessary for non-bedded ores. I do not think a single one of these statements will stand the test of examination so far as Irish conditions are concerned.
It is not true — in this country, at any rate, whatever conditions may be elsewhere — that the contents of our coal measures can be more readily assessed than the contents of our non-bedded ores. I have personally held the view for a long time that exploration activity in this country could be more usefully directed to the areas which are known to contain coal than to any other known deposits. I had intended that Mianraí Teoranta, when they had finished their work at Avoca, should be asked to undertake the detailed examination by diamond drilling of the whole of the Leinster coalfield area. As Minister for Industry and Commerce, I tried to get that done by a commercial company, but unsuccessfully. There are workings going on at various points in the Leinster coalfield area, but I believe it has never been thoroughly explored to a proper depth. While my hopes may prove to be groundless, I think there is a far better prospect of exploration work there producing results than in almost any other part of the country.
During my time as Minister, considerable inducement was given to private firms to get working in that area and, indeed, a number of new workings began. Grants were also given on a fairly liberal scale to persons undertaking mineral exploration work—grants for the construction of roads and for the removal of overburden—which proved abortive in the sense that the work did not disclose the existence of minerals which, in the conditions of the time, are capable of profitable commercial development. However, a number of workings were begun and in each case are capable of further development.
What can be done by efficient direction in the development of Irish coal measures has been demonstrated during the past couple of years at Slieveardagh. Indeed, the main impediment which exists at the present time to the further development of the coal measures there is the inability of the firm working them to attract a sufficient number of miners. The difficulty in doing so is very largely a problem of housing. One of the main incentives which might be given to the development of mining operations here would be some provision for the building of houses in the vicinity of mines-houses that could be reserved for those working in them—most of which are located in isolated districts away from towns and cannot attract workers into them unless there is a certainty of suitable housing accommodation in their vicinities. Local authorities are always co-operative but local authorities are bound by the Housing Acts and cannot undertake to build houses exclusively for the employees of an individual concern or even to allocate them in a preferential way to the employees of an individual concern.
However, that is a side issue to this Bill.
My point is that the development of our coal measures is as urgent a task as any other type of mineral development in this country. It has not been done very largely because of the reasons the Minister gave for this Bill in relation to the non-bedded ores. The initial investment of capital in exploration and development is very heavy, with a substantial risk that it may be completely lost. I have argued here, on the Second Reading, that there is a far more urgent need for this country to give incentives to the exploration and development of its coal measures than any other mineral deposits we may have because we need the coal and we are likely to need it much more urgently in the years ahead. All the indications are that we will have very considerable difficulty in meeting our requirements of solid fuel by imports. The day is in sight when British coal will not be available.
The British coal authorities are already forecasting a day when they will not be able to meet British internal needs with their own coal production. If the coal exists, we need it and it can be consumed in its final form in this country. Indeed, in so far as we might produce a certain type of coal such as anthracite in excess of our own requirements, there is no difficulty in finding an export market for it. At various times in past years, some of our coal producers have been able to dispose of part of their production by export.
The mining difficulties in Irish coal mines are far greater than the difficulties in non-bedded ores. I speak with some experience. I have been down the mine in Avoca and I have been down some of our coal-mines also. In Avoca, it was possible to walk upright. There was no problem of ventilation which could not easily be solved by the mining engineers. There was a great deal of water, which made the work in the mines somewhat unpleasant. The depth of the rock which is being worked permits of upright work. I was down the mine at Silvermines, too, and had the same experience there. Our coal-mines are all working narrow seams. A 24-inch seam is big for an Irish coal-mine; some of the seams worked are less. The men working there cannot stand up. They have to work lying on their sides; and they have to remove a great deal of material, which is just waste.
As I said, a great deal of the expenditure in production is non-productive expenditure. It may be true that, in other countries, working on bedded deposits of coal is an easier operation than working on non-bedded ores. That is certainly not true under Irish conditions. Neither is it true that the capital expenditure which has to be undertaken for the working on non-bedded ores is greater than the expenditure necessary for working on bedded ores. If one estimates output on a tonnage basis there is no foundation for that statement at all. Indeed, I think that most of our coal-mines could be greatly improved with a substantial amount of expenditure upon more extensive and up-to-date plant, and that includes plant on the surface as well as plant underground.
The main advantage which the Slieveardagh working has over other coal-mines is that they have a washing plant installed, which other coal-mines have not got and which represents a very considerable investment of capital. I think there is no case to be made for the withholding of these incentives and reliefs from coal-mining which does not apply equally to any other type of mining operation. If the Government has accepted the principle that tax incentives should be given to encourage the kind of development which is regarded as most important, then every argument that can be used in favour of giving these incentives for the working of non-bedded ores can be applied just as forcibly to the working of bedded ores.
I do not know if the Minister has any hope that, having apparently accepted the principle of tax incentives to encourage desirable types of development, he will not be urged to extend its application in a variety of directions. Indeed, if there is a principle, if this Bill is the product of some decision that it is desirable that tax incentives should be given to get suitable economic activities going, then it is even more important than I think it is. I think it is the result of a particular bargain with an individual group and that there is nothing more behind it than the desire to fulfil that bargain. I suspect that the Bill was drawn in a way which will, as I have said, make it almost certain that nobody will be able to get any relief under it except the one group.
If there is a principle, and if the principle is that tax incentives should be given to encourage desirable developments, then I urge most strongly that that principle should be used to justify the extension of these incentives and these reliefs to coal-mining. In that connection the Minister used in his concluding speech the other day the words "ex parte”. I do not know quite what he meant, but, in case he meant what I think he meant, I want to make it quite clear that I have no financial interest of any kind whatever in any coal-mine undertaking.