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Dáil Éireann debate -
Thursday, 17 May 1956

Vol. 157 No. 5

Committee on Finance. - Resolution No. 10—General (Resumed).

Debate resumed on the following Resolution:—
That it is expedient to amend the law relating to customs and inland revenue (including excise) and to make further provision in connection with finance.—(Minister for Finance.)

Deputy O'Malley, when he was speaking yesterday, put the question as to whether or not it was true that at a long drawn out Cabinet meeting the Minister had told the Labour Party that they would not hold the gun to his head any longer. That kind of statement seems to be generally in accord with the Fianna Fáil line. It seems to be one of the favourite pastimes of the Leader of the Opposition, when he is on public platforms, to brandish a copy of what I think is a Cumann na nGaedheal advertisement dealing with coalitions, published about the year 1927. The view of the Leader of the Opposition seems to be that whatever appeared in the advertisement at that time was true and correct and would be fully as effective now as at the time it was published.

It might be too much to assert that the Leader of the Opposition's attitude is that everything the Cumann na nGaedheal Government did was right and that they were always right in everything. That is a large claim and it is not one that I am prepared to make, but does the Leader of the Opposition or any other Deputy in the Fianna Fáil Party ever wonder why the particular advertisement in question was published, what coalition or proposed coalition was in the air at that time and if the members and leaders of the Fianna Fáil Party at that time were concerned in any proposals to form a Coalition Government in which they would participate?

I do not want to travel back to those days. I am merely mentioning the matter because of the remarks made by Deputy O'Malley and, incidentally, if Deputy O'Malley reads the Irish Press this morning he will see that the editorial in the Party organ was apparently written before Deputy O'Malley's words of wisdom were dropped in this House yesterday. According to the Irish Press this morning, in the present Government and, I think they claim, in the previous inter-Party Government, the people who were ruling the roost were the Fine Gael Party. There was no question of Labour holding the gun to anybody's head or getting away with anything. However, I imagine Deputy O'Malley will be able to reconcile his differences with the editorial board of the Irish Press.

Fianna Fáil do not seem to be able to appreciate that it is not a very difficult job at all to get reasonable men to work together in harmony and co-operation notwithstanding the fact that they represent different political Parties in this House. Whatever may be said of early days, when Party politics in this country were more hectic, facts since 1948 have proved, and I think this is a matter we can all be proud of, that it is possible for members of the Fine Gael Party, the Labour Party, the Farmers' Party and others to meet together in Government in absolute co-operation and harmony. I would be surprised if there were not differences of opinion expressed at Cabinet meetings.

This seems to be keeping far away from the Budget.

I will get back to it in a moment, Sir. I want to round off my point by saying that I would be surprised if there were not differences of opinion in matters of policy. I think it is perfectly normal, natural and proper that there should be differences of opinion in every political Party with regard to matters of policy. I think that, inside the Fianna Fáil Party, those differences should exist, and be expressed, if they are a truly representative Party representing the various sections and interests in this country. I make no secret of the fact that, as far as my own Party is concerned, we in no way clamp down on free discussion and free exchange of opinions with regard to matters of policy within our own Party. It would be only right that the Parties represented in the Government to-day should have equal freedom to exchange their views and to come to a decision in the best interests of the country after a free exchange of views.

There were some matters of Government policy recently in relation to finance and economics generally and there were tough decisions to be taken. I do not think that Fianna Fáil believed that these decisions could be taken by a Government composed of different political Parties. It is a test of the unity, co-operation and goodwill that exists in the present inter-Party Government that the measures which the Minister for Finance found it necessary to take could be taken with the entire backing and support of all the Deputies on this side of the House. A short while ago it was necessary for the Minister to draw up a list comprising some 68 articles on which he imposed an import levy. It was necessary in this Budget to impose heavy taxation on tobacco and petrol, both imported commodities. I think it was a measure of the success of the present Government, and of the spirit of goodwill and co-operation prevailing in the Government, that even measures of such a tough nature should get the wholehearted support of Deputies from this side of the House.

As I mentioned, when I was speaking yesterday, I believe that members of the Fianna Fáil Party find it difficult to criticise this Budget. I referred to the speech made by Deputy Lemass in Mallow, and reported in the public Press on the 14th March. I referred to that as a speech which I consider to be a sensible and a sound one and, in analysing that speech and placing it side by side with the Budget statement, it is difficult to find any real measure of disagreement. Deputy Lemass, as I mentioned yesterday, did, of course, refer to certain matters which the Minister, I am glad to say, avoided in his Budget. Deputy Lemass expressed the view that the Budget proposals should be so designed as to rely on a few big taxes to produce the necessary revenue and one of the taxes stipulated by him was income-tax.

I am glad that the Minister avoided increasing income-tax and I think the Minister has approached the matter correctly, in our present circumstances, in designing his Budget so that the taxation which is being imposed is taxation on controllable commodities rather than on income. I think it would be a bit far fetched to talk about increased production and at the same time to increase taxation on the incomes of those on whom we are relying for that increased production.

In addition to the two big taxes which have been imposed, the Budget reimposes the dance tax which was remitted by Fianna Fáil in the Budget of 1952. I do not think there can be any quarrel with that. For the last few months, people have been comparing the situation in 1952, and the problems which faced the Fianna Fáil Government, with the situation within the last few months and the problem which faced the present Government. I think it is perfectly fair to draw a comparison between the approach of the Fianna Fáil Government in 1952 to their problem, on the one hand, and on the other hand, the approach of the present Government to a similar problem with regard to the balance of payments.

I do not want to repeat what is well known to the Deputies of the House and to people outside—that the Fianna Fáil approach in 1952 was to cut down the food subsidies. The present Government, in dealing with their problem, took as their target commodities which were not essential to the people. The taxation imposed by the present Government, as I have stated already, can be controlled by the people themselves because it is a tax on expenditure on articles which are not essential. I know there may be a certain measure of disagreement with that, in relation to petrol, and that it can be fairly advanced as an argument that, for certain sections of the community, petrol is essential and is necessary. I am glad that the Minister has designed his taxation in this Budget so as to ensure that there will be no increase, by reason of this Budget, on bus fares charged to the travelling public.

In the case of taximen, hackneymen or such people it is perfectly fair to say that they depend on petrol for their livelihoods and that consequently petrol is an essential commodity for them. If we have regard, however, to the amount of the increased tax on petrol, we will find that for a motor vehicle using petrol and getting 24 miles to the gallon, the increased charge on that vehicle works out at about a farthing a mile. I should imagine—I have not gone into the figures very carefully—that the average motor vehicle used in this country probably gets very much better than 24 miles to the gallon on petrol and that, consequently, the average imposition per mile of this Budget is even less than a farthing a mile.

On the other hand, it is true to say that for certain sections of the people petrol is not essential. For a great many motor users petrol is not an essential and people using cars for pleasure purposes can control that extra expenditure. As far as tobacco goes, everybody can control that expenditure if they desire to do so.

I do not think the dance tax should ever have been removed by Fianna Fáil in 1952. It has been reimposed by the present Minister with, I think, the approval of the majority of the people in this country. In 1952, when the dance tax was removed by Fianna Fáil, at least one of the Deputies who subsequently joined Fianna Fáil and who was at that time supporting them as an Independent Deputy for the same constituency as Deputy MacEntee, expressed his view of Fianna Fáil's action in removing the dance tax. At column 210 of the Official Reports for the 23rd April, 1952, he said:—

"I think the removal of the dance tax was extremely foolish. I simply cannot understand it. I think it is a very foolish thing to have done. Politically also, I think it is a very foolish thing to have done. I think the Minister will come to feel that it is a very foolish thing. I do not see how it can be justified, but perhaps the Minister may be able to provide his own explanation. He will most certainly need it on the hustings if the Opposition are worth a damn."

The Opposition were worth a damn and I do not think Fianna Fáil have yet been able to explain adequately to the people why in the Budget in 1952, when bread and other essentials of life were increased in price, the dance tax should have been removed. I know the argument was made that it was more troublesome than it was worth, that the administrative costs were too high, and so on. The Minister for Finance, in introducing the Budget this year, apparently examined that argument and came to the conclusion that it was not warranted.

Other matters of comparison between the Government's approach to this Budget and the Opposition's approach are in relation to the question of reducing administrative costs. The Minister has announced what he intends to do in that regard. He has announced the setting up of a committee of the heads of Departments under his chairmanship and he has, I am glad to say, made it quite clear that as far as this Government are concerned there will be no question of dismissals, there will be no question of turfing anyone out of office simply for the sake of economy.

The Minister has mentioned that the problem of reducing the numbers in the Civil Service can be dealt with by taking into account the normal wastage that will occur from year to year, due to retirements and deaths and one thing or another of that sort. I think that is a humane way of approaching the problem. I think it is a correct approach. We are entitled to put in contrast with that approach the speech made by Deputy MacEntee on the 9th of this month, reported at columns 186 and 187 of the Official Reports for that day. He was referring to the question of economies and he said:—

"That is not the way to deal with the situation. The Minister is going to meet the heads of Departments. When I came in first as Minister for Finance in 1932, we had the same sort of parlous budgetary and financial problem to deal with and I told the heads of the Departments fairly frankly that either they or we were for it and that if it came to a showdown it was not going to be we. We were going to have the Budget balanced. We had the unpleasant task of imposing taxes in 1953, but we were also going to secure economies. The proper way to do the job is to go to the heads of Departments and say that if they are not able to cut administrative costs substantially within the next 12 or 18 months, then they are not the men for the job."

I think the approach of the present Minister is a better one than that. I think it is better to seek the willing co-operation of the heads of Departments and of the Civil Service generally rather than to go out with the threatening and bullying attitude which seems to be the kind of approach denoted by Deputy MacEntee in the quotation I have given.

I do not think there is very much more I want to say in connection with this Budget. I have expressed agreement with the Minister's description of it as a realistic Budget. I think it is also a courageous Budget and the Minister, the Government and all associated with the Government, irrespective of Party, deserve congratulation and thanks not only from Deputies but from the country generally for the manner in which they have squared up to the problems facing this country, for the lead they have given to the country in dealing with those problems. I want to finish by expressing the hope that the ordinary people throughout the country will respond to the lead which has been given by the Government and will play their part in a difficult situation, because it is essential—and the Government have made this quite clear—if the difficulties which confront the country are to be overcome that the individuals throughout the country should play their part by endeavouring to save more and to produce more.

I do not think the target which is to be aimed at is beyond the capacity of the people. I believe that if the people of the country are allowed to go about their own affairs in their own way, getting a proper lead from the Government, the problems which now exist will be resolved fairly easily. I think it would be bad for the country and bad for the people that any effort should be made to bring an atmosphere of political controversy into the economic field as it exists to-day and to surround the measures which the Government have proposed with a political atmosphere. That would not be good business either for the politicians or for the country. I sincerely hope that the measures which the Government has taken will be successful, that the lead which the Government has given will be followed and followed with some enthusiasm by the people of the country.

Mr. Lemass

I think the concluding remarks of Deputy O'Higgins, which were typical of other remarks made by speakers on his side of the House, are more likely to irritate the public than even the increases in taxes imposed in the Budget. Since the Budget statement I have had discussions with representatives of various interests and I found that their reaction was far more pronounced to the attempts of the Government to wrap themselves in the cloak of righteousness than to the actual burdens which the Budget imposed on them.

The main interest of the Government appears to be to excuse themselves from responsibility for the situation which their incompetence and indecisiveness have allowed to arise. Their new theme is that the problems with which they are faced are the fault of the people, that new taxation is required, not because the Government failed to limit the cost of administration, and new difficulties are arising, not because the Government failed to check the rise in prices, but because the people are misbehaving themselves. That was the theme of the speech of the Minister for Finance and all the Deputies behind him have taken it up during this debate. Public misbehaviour is the enemy, and when they attempt to define how the public is misbehaving it appears it is because they are striving to maintain or to improve their standard of living and to that end are spending money and saving less.

If the people of the country were foolish enough to believe from the previous statements of members of the Government that there were going to be better times for all with lower taxes and lower prices, then the Government is going to teach them a lesson. That is the present mood of Ministers. These foolish people who thought that they were in for easy times, lower taxes and lower prices, are now going to be taught otherwise. We had, indeed, the Minister for Social Welfare actually reaching the point in his argument at which he contended that as soon as the public understood that what the Government was doing was for their own good, as soon as they appreciated the sincerity and purity of the Government's motives, then they would actually begin to thank the Government for the new burdens which have been placed on them.

Increased taxes are required now not because of any development in international conditions or any failure on the part of the Irish people but solely because the Government failed to limit the increase in the cost of public administration. Since this Government came into office, in the two years from 1954 to 1956, although the tax revenue available to the Government from the taxes previously in operation expanded by no less than £6,000,000, the cost of administration has risen by £13,000,000. That is why the Minister has to increase tax rates now. If the Government had been able to keep the increase in the cost of administration within the limit of £6,000,000 no increased taxes would be required.

There is, perhaps, no use in reminding Ministers or Deputies opposite of the fact that they once believed, and contended in public, that the cost of administration could be reduced. They probably did not believe that themselves even though they said it, but they certainly did not think then that it would be impossible to prevent the cost of administration from rising. Why did they fail? They failed, I suggest, because they do not know how to do their job; because there is not in the Government anybody who has got either the capacity or the knowledge to introduce effective measures which will keep down the cost.

Deputy O'Higgins has been telling us that the Minister for Finance announced what he is going to do in order to prevent the cost of administration rising in the future. That is not the first time an announcement of that kind was made. When we were discussing the Budget of 1955 the Taoiseach in that debate announced that the Government was going to prune Government expenditure. He said—I am quoting from his speech of last year reported at column 1411 in Volume 150:—

"We will eliminate extravagance. So far as possible we will cut public expenditure..."

The Taoiseach may have meant that. He may have believed that it was possible for the Government to cut public expenditure; he may even have believed his Ministers were going to co-operate with him in doing so. We know this is not a normal Government; we know in this Government the Taoiseach exercises very little control over the activities of his Ministers and, indeed, appears to be incapable of even influencing the courses they may take. So far as the public can judge, noting the contrast between the actions of Ministers and the declarations of the Taoiseach, Ministers pay very little attention to the various statements made by the Leader of the Government as to his intentions, even if they read them, which I doubt. Certainly, no attempt has been made to cut expenditure; no attempt has been made to eliminate extravagance. This year the Civil Service will cost a great deal more; there are more civil servants engaged in administrative duties than there were last year.

Mr. Lemass

I am assuming that the figures published in the Book of Estimates are accurate.

I would suggest the Deputy should learn how to add the figures in the Book of Estimates.

Mr. Lemass

I have done so. Eliminating Garda and Army, Post Office and teachers, the number of civil servants estimated to be required this year for administrative and clerical purposes is higher than last year. That is the first and main failure of the Government. Whatever excuses they can make regarding prices, balance of payments difficulties or other matters on the ground of international pressures, so far as the cost of Government is concerned it is entirely under their control and their failure to prevent a rise was due entirely to their own incompetence.

Speaking here on the Vote on Account, the Minister for Finance said, when presenting the bill for the year: "Naturally, I should have wished to produce a lower total for the coming year". It will not be done by wishing. If the cost of Government is to be prevented from rising further, it needs control by someone. It necessitates that there should be in the Government some one person who will have the authority, the influence and the power to prevent other Ministers adding unnecessarily to their establishments. That is presumably the Taoiseach's job. In a normal Government it would be the Taoiseach's job and, if there is failure in that regard, the responsibility must rest on his shoulders. But it is a responsibility which is shared with the Minister for Finance whose administrative functions include the exercising of control over the expenditures of all Departments. It is easier to push up the cost of Government than to pull it down.

Hear, hear!

What about the shortwave station?

I am sorry. I should not have interrupted.

Mr. Lemass

I think we must accept that the increases which have already taken place will not be easily rectified but can we get a decision from the Government that there will be no further increases until national production has expanded, until increased revenue from existing taxation is available to the Government, to permit of a rise in expenditure without an increase in tax rates? Would the Minister for Finance say that this is the end of the process and that, from this on, either he or the Taoiseach or somebody else within the Government will exercise control in this field, will ensure that administrative costs will not be allowed to rise further?

The Minister for Social Welfare speaking in the debate asked the Opposition to state what reductions in expenditure we would want to make. The mere fact that that question was asked seems to me to make it clear that Ministers have not even begun to understand what their responsibilities are. Nobody wants to make reductions. Even the task of getting rid of superfluous or incompetent civil servants is not a pleasant one. There is nobody in this House who cannot think of additions he would like to make to Government services, new expenditures that he would like to propose which would be beneficial to the people of this country or to some sections of them. What the Government has to face is the fact that national income will not support any higher expenditure.

A worker who gets his week's wages and goes for a walk down O'Connell Street will see in shop windows many things he would like to buy, many inducements to expenditure that he would like to make but, being a sensible man, he knows that he has not got the surplus of income which will enable him to buy these things, to undertake additional expenditures and that, until his income has been increased, until he is able to earn more, he will have to forego buying these things that he would like to have. The Government must act in a similarly sensible way. They must face up to the fact that they must forego expenditures until the national income has been increased to support them.

The fact of the matter is that since this Government came into office the national income increased by 3 per cent. but Government expenditure has increased by 11 per cent. If the Minister for Finance and the other members of the Government will keep these percentages in mind they will realise the extent to which they are bringing the country in the wrong direction.

The Minister for Agriculture, here, yesterday, asked was there any country in Europe where life was easier than it is here. It is not so long ago since he and all his colleagues in the Government were going around the country peddling discontent, telling the people how miserable they were, caoining about the national position as it existed in 1954. This Government came into office in 1954. I wonder do they appreciate the enormous deterioration in national conditions which has taken place since then? 1954 was a reasonably good year. The price level was stable; it had been stable for some 12 months prior to the date of the change of Government. Production was rising and exports were rising. There was in that year no deficit in our external payments of any consequence. The living standards of our people were improving. The average number of persons unemployed in each week was falling. It was lower than in the previous year and in the previous year it had been lower than in the year before that.

I do not think that description of the conditions that prevailed in 1954, when his Government came into office, will be seriously challenged but, just to emphasise that it is not an ex parte account of the circumstances then prevailing, I would remind the Minister for Finance that he so described them in his Budget statement of 1955. In that statement the Minister for Finance said:—

"On the whole, 1954 was a good year. Reasonable stability of prices and freedom from any major industrial disputes enabled progress to be made in output, exports and living standards."

Let us contrast the conditions of 1954 with the conditions of to-day and, again, just to make sure that nobody will accuse me of misrepresenting today's conditions, I will confine myself to quoting extracts from the 1956 Budget statement of the Minister for Finance. According to that statement, there has developed in the meantime, first, a grave balance of payments problem, the financing of which, he said, resulted in a scarcity of capital for development purposes. He pointed out that total savings in 1955 were £21,000,000 less than in 1954 and £30,000,000 less than in 1953. He said that savings declined despite increases in money incomes. He emphasised that the financing of capital expenditure has become more difficult and costly. He said that, for the first time in many years, deposits within the State of commercial banks fell. He said that production was static. In contrast with an annual rate of growth in real terms of about 2 per cent. in each of the two previous years, there was no increase in production in 1955.

He said there was a 2 per cent. fall in agricultural production. The Minister for Agriculture does not agree with that. He asked how any rational person could make that statement. I do not know if the Minister for Finance regards himself as a rational person. I hope the Dáil will not have to decide whether that description applies more accurately to him than to the Minister for Agriculture.

The Minister for Health, Deputy T. F. O'Higgins, says that members of the Government often agree upon policy. We would at least expect that when they come to the Dáil they would agree upon facts. Anyway, the Minister for Finance says there was a decrease of 2 per cent. in agricultural production which was barely offset by an increase in industrial output. Whether, in fact, there was an increase in industrial output is a question that might be examined another time. He said unemployment had ceased to fall —that it was roughly the same now as in 1955. I would point out that unemployment fell in each of the two preceding years. In each week of 1954, almost, the number of unemployed was less than in the corresponding week of 1953 and in each week of 1953 the number was less than in the corresponding week in 1952. Now, the number of registered unemployed is mounting— notwithstanding the fact that emigration is almost at crisis proportions. Indeed, our unemployment statistics do not reveal the full position because, as many Deputies know, there is a great deal of short-time working at present in many industries which is not revealed in our unemployment statistics.

I invite any Coalition Deputy who has spoken or who proposes to speak in this debate to read the speech he made in the corresponding debate of last year. I challenge any Deputy opposite or any member of the Government to repeat this year the speech he made last year. It would be a useful exercise for them to go back over the hopes they expressed and the intentions they indicated last year just to help them to appreciate the extent to which—through their administration—the whole national position has been made a great deal worse. What was the Government trying to do in 1955? I am not asking the House to take my word for it. We had declarations of intentions from the Taoiseach, the Minister for Finance and other members of the Government.

The Taoiseach described the 1955 Budget statement as a complete and comprehensive expression of financial and economic policy. Speaking on his Estimate in July last, as reported at column 1099 of the Official Report, Volume 152, the Taoiseach said:—

"If I am asked to say briefly what our economic policy is, I point to the Budget as a unified and coherent expression of the policy to which the Government is committed."

What were the aims of policy as stated by the Taoiseach then? He said—(1) to get down the cost of living; (2) to prune Government expenditure; (3) to reduce the cost of Government borrowing; (4) to keep down bank lending charges and (5) to expand savings and capital investment. Let us consider the extent to which these aims of the Government have been realised or to which, through incompetence and mismanagement, the Government has been diverted from the realisation of these aims. Speaking in the Budget debate of last year, as reported at column 1409, Volume 150, of the Official Report, the Taoiseach said regarding the cost of living:—

"We are trying to get down the cost of living. We may fail but at least we are not bringing up the cost of living. As a matter of deliberate policy, we are trying to keep it down."

I do not think any member of the Government will claim success in regard to that aim. Since then, the cost-of-living index number shows an average rise of 5 per cent. in the general prices level. A few months after that statement of aims by the head of the Government, he came back here again and, speaking in November last in the debate on the motion of No Confidence, he excused himself and his Government because the cost of living had risen—"prices have risen but for reasons entirely beyond the control of this or any other Government." Within the next few months there was a further change of outlook in the Government.

In the Budget debate of last year the Taoiseach was asserting that, as a matter of deliberate policy, they were trying to keep down the cost of living. By the time the Dáil was discussing prices on the Supplies and Services Bill this year, they had turned completely the other way and we had the Tánaiste, the Minister for Industry and Commerce, denouncing as preposterous the idea that the Government could keep down the cost of living. The Minister for Industry and Commerce thumped the desk and said, as reported at column 1003 of Volume 155:—

"Does anybody imagine that a small country like this with 3,000,000 people can hold at bay inflationary forces which are operating in all the countries of the world?"

The Taoiseach gave the Dáil an assurance in an expression of aims and intentions to keep down the cost of living as a matter of deliberate policy. "At least we are not," he said, "going to bring it up." This rise in prices which has taken place and is taking place is, in my view, the key to all our national problems. Because prices have risen and because there is a widespread public expectation that prices will continue to rise, people are spending rather than saving. There is no confidence amongst the public in the virtue of saving, no belief in the stability of the value of money. Because of the fact that prices have risen, are rising and, in the minds of the public, are expected to rise still further, we have this heavy adverse trade balance about which Ministers have recently been speaking and which is depleting the resources of the commercial banks and causing the credit squeeze which is, in turn, restricting the expansion of trade. Because of that, we have this difficulty, to which the Minister for Finance referred, in financing public capital outlay and a sharp contraction of private investment. Because of that, wages are rising and other costs are rising which are pricing our products out of the export markets and making it more difficult to maintain the volume of our exports which must be restored if the balance of payments deficit is ever to be remedied.

The Government now appears to have no policy whatever regarding prices. That is their failure No. 2. The main concern of the Ministers appears to be to escape the political consequences to themselves of the rise in prices. Whenever they speak now upon prices it is to excuse themselves on the grounds that international forces are stronger than they assumed, that factors are at work which they cannot be expected to regulate. Is it possible to get this Government, even for a brief period, to forget politics— to forget whether the developments in our national circumstances will win them votes or lose them votes in another election—and to concentrate on their responsibilities as a Government?

This issue of rising prices, the consequence of public expectation that prices will continue to rise, constitutes a national crisis with which the Government and the Government alone have the power to deal. I do not think that it is true to say that all the factors which are affecting prices and causing them to rise are outside our control. I am not thinking now of the apparatus of inquiries by the Prices Advisory Body and the making of regulations by the Minister for Industry and Commerce—all that silly nonsense that the Government maintains to keep alive the illusion that they are continuing to do something about prices. Other Governments have operated devices designed to preserve the stability of their internal price levels, notwithstanding fluctuations in international conditions. I will admit that most of these devices relate to the management of their currencies, and that the introduction of similar devices here would be extremely difficult and would certainly be highly controversial. But the issue at stake here is one of the survival of the national economy, if indeed we have anything here which could be properly described as a national economy. We cannot rule out the use of any weapon in that struggle.

The Minister for Finance appears to know what is at stake. There were certain parts of his financial statement which gave that impression. He told us that it was our economic survival that was at stake, our hopes of improving our living standards and of providing a larger volume of gainful employment. Is it good enough, if these are the issues at stake, for Ministers merely to turn from their own responsibilities and to give only excuses to the country? The people are getting tired of excuses and want now from the Government decisions and action. Again, I will admit that when the Taoiseach was speaking here last year and stated that the Government would not bring up the cost of living and would try as a matter of deliberate policy to bring it down, he probably believed that was possible but it merely showed his inability to appreciate the nature of the forces that were at work at that time and the powers of the Government in that regard.

I will now come to the third item in the Taoiseach's 1955 programme. His first aim was to reduce the cost of living and he failed in that. His second aim was to reduce Government expenditure and he failed in that. The third aim was to reduce the cost of Government borrowing. I am not going to let him off with anything in that matter because when the Taoiseach was speaking on the Budget debate last year he said that the previous Government, the previous Fianna Fáil administration, had acted upon a policy of dearer money. Whatever excuses the Minister for Finance might make for himself in the present circumstances, he was not prepared to extend them to the previous Government when it was faced with the same difficulties.

According to the Taoiseach the previous Government was not faced with any difficulties at all and if Government borrowing interest rates rose during that period, it was alleged that it was because of deliberate policy for some mysterious reason the previous Government were forcing up the cost of capital. Later on in the debate on the "No Confidence" motion in November the Taoiseach pointed across to the benches here and said:—

"You brought disaster to the country by increasing the rate of interest to 5 per cent. You destroyed the credit of the country and we restored it."

In view of these declarations by the Taoiseach we cannot excuse him for his policy in that regard on the grounds of not knowing what was the position. Since then, the Government has had its issue of National Savings Bonds at a rate higher than 5 per cent.; 5 per cent. bonds issued at a discount, and the public subscribed 44 per cent. of the total sought.

Last year the Minister for Finance quoted the success of the previous loan as indicating the confidence of the public in the policy of the Government. The Taoiseach in the Budget debate of last year said that the response to that loan showed that the public had confidence in the Minister for Finance and his policy. It also showed, he said, the determination of his Government to reorient downwards the cost of Government borrowing.

What is the position to-day? The Minister for Agriculture stated yesterday that the reason for the failure of that loan, the reason why it did not attract from the public more than 44 per cent. of the total sought, was that while the loan was on issue the British bank rate was increased. Is it seriously contended by the Government that that alone was responsible for the failure of that loan? Do they really believe that it was that accidental circumstance that prevented the loan from filling? Are they trying to suggest now, in face of the problem of raising money for public purposes, that that loan would have been successful but for the unforeseen eventuality of this development in Britain? Will the Minister for Finance say what the indications were that that loan would have filled at the time when the announcement of the increase in the British bank rate was made? Is that the case the Government is putting to the House?

The Minister for Finance was speaking in a different voice when he presented his Budget statement. He was talking then about capital being scarce and dear and was indicating the difficulties of finding money for State capital purposes. Does anybody know if the Minister for Agriculture is talking Government policy or not? What is the point of fostering the belief that the issue would have succeeded but for the mere accident of an increase in the British bank rate taking place at that time? All Exchequer loan rates have had to be increased, according to the Minister for Finance, to 5½ per cent. The members of the Government should go back and read over what was said by them about the effect of higher interest rates on advances to local authorities and other public bodies on the last occasion when they were increased.

According to the Taoiseach, we destroyed the credit of the country and the present Government restored it, but what is the position now? Do they see any real prospect of raising from the public the £37,000,000 to finance their capital programme this year? Are they not going to the E.S.B. and C.I.E. and other sources trying to get short term money in order to meet the immediate requirements of the Government? If they had a sensible appreciation of their duties and the tasks facing the Government, they would know that this phenomenon of higher interest rates is not one that is likely to disappear very quickly and that the problem in that regard did not arise because of an accidental increase in the British bank rate at the time when they were floating a loan. The problem that they are facing is the same as that which the previous Government had to face. The general trend is always towards higher interest rates for borrowing money in an economy where taxation is high. The cards are always stacked against the borrower of money at interest.

Anyway, the Taoiseach last year was proclaiming his intention to reorient downwards the cost of Government borrowing. That is his failure No. 3. Indeed, there has been quite an extraordinary change in the year both in the actual circumstances prevailing and in the attitude of the Government towards those circumstances. The Government finds itself in the position that it cannot maintain the previous level of public capital investment.

The Minister for Agriculture yesterday spent a long time expounding the advantages to this country of capital expenditure upon houses, hospitals, schools and so forth. Nobody is going to dispute that issue with him, least of all the Deputies on this side of the House who were, in the main, responsible for the inauguration of every one of these beneficial schemes, but what explanation is the Government going to give the people now, in view of what the Minister for Agriculture said, that this year they are budgeting for less expenditure on houses, hospitals, schools and for investment in agriculture, forestry and fishing?

Why is it they have to cut down the capital Budget this year? What financial circumstances have they allowed to arise which have forced this disaster on the country? Recently, I publicised certain proposals for national development which involved a higher level of State capital expenditure. I argued that State capital expenditure was multiplied in its effects upon the national income. The reverse is also true. A curtailment of State capital expenditure is multiplied in its effect upon the national income, the level of trade and the level of employment.

All the indications are now that the people have no confidence in the Minister for Finance or his policy. Is the Government going to accept that situation? Are they going to do nothing about it except wring their hands? Are those who control the supply of Irish savings still to be allowed to move them outside the country to seek investment elsewhere, if investment elsewhere offers greater advantages than investment here?

Does the Government think there is nothing that can be done about that? I made a suggestion that there should be brought into operation a capital gains tax in regard to new external investments. I do not know whether that is a good or bad suggestion but there are alternative methods, if the Government do not like that one, by which some penalty or check can be imposed upon the unrestricted transfer of Irish savings for investment elsewhere. Can we afford to let them go elsewhere in the circumstances in which the Minister for Finance stated that capital outlay has to be curtailed and that private capital investment is exceedingly restricted? That is failure No. 3—the reorientation downwards of the cost of Government borrowing.

The next aim of policy of the Government stated during the debate on the Budget of last year was to prevent an increase in bank charges. The Taoiseach said:—

"We took the decision in conjunction with the banks not to increase the bank rate here this year."

Later in the year the Governor of the Bank of Ireland said of that decision that it would appear that insufficient importance was attached to the effect on the liquid resources of the banking system, a factor bearing vitally upon employment and production.

Would the Deputy give the reference?

Mr. Lemass

That is from a statement by the Governor of the Bank of Ireland at the annual meeting of the bank. That is Government failure No. 4. The words used by the Governor of the Bank of Ireland were very mild and very polite but they constitute a striking condemnation of the Government and its policy. It would appear that insufficient importance was attached to the consequence of their decision, that the Government acted without thinking of the consequences which are now being experienced by the people of this country, the workers who are losing employment and the businessmen who are facing curtailment in their trade.

What are the consequences of the policy which the Government followed? The Minister for Finance in the course of his Budget statement of 1956, stated that for the first time for many years the deposits within the State of the commercial banks fell. They fell by £13.2 million. The Minister went on to say that these figures are closely related to the rise in consumption and over-spending on less essential imports.

Is the Government going to make the same mistake twice? To what extent is that decline in bank deposits due to the fact that deposits are leaving the country and going elsewhere? Does the Minister for Finance not know that there are industrial finance houses in England at the present time advertising their willingness to take short term deposits and pay 6½ per cent. on them? Has any estimate been made of the extent to which deposit funds are being lost, to this country by reason of the fact that they can be more profitably employed elsewhere? Is that situation to be allowed to continue unchecked in face of the consequence to this country?

South Africa had a somewhat similar problem. Their situation was in many respects similar to ours. South Africa is in the sterling area and had free transferability of funds within the sterling area. When the bank rate in England was increased recently, they had to face this problem. They saw the likelihood that funds would move from South Africa to London because of the higher rates prevailing there. They appreciated that the consequences to South Africa might be serious. They faced the two alternatives there —either to push up their own interest rates in line with the British rates in order to prevent the outward flow of the funds or impose restrictions on the transfer of the funds. They adopted the latter course and imposed restrictions on the transfer of funds to London.

I admit that the operation of similar restrictions here would be very difficult. Indeed, it is hard to say what administrative machinery could be devised to make such regulations effective, but the worse course is to do nothing, to allow the situation to develop as it will and ignore the consequences upon trade and employment in this country.

To prevent an increase in the cost of living was the Government's first aim; to prune Government expenditure was the second thing; to bring down the cost of Government borrowing was the third, and to prevent an increase in bank charges was the fourth thing. In all these aims the Government has failed. Their next aim was to increase the level of savings and expand capital investment. Speaking in the Budget debate of last year, the Taoiseach said, at column 1417, Volume 150 of the Official Debates:—

"What is required is a well-balanced and expanding programme of capital investment, which we believe we have—both public and private— financed to a certain extent by domestic savings..."

Between 1954 and 1956, the public investment programme was cut by 30 per cent. Nobody can put a figure on the decline in private business investment but I do not think there will be any denial of the fact that there has been a decline. The Taoiseach went on to say on the occasion of the debate on his Estimate:—

"If we wish to maintain and improve on our 1954 level of capital formation without increasing the existing moderate rate of foreign disinvestment, we will have to recover the savings ground lost last year."

Did the Government recover the savings ground lost last year? The Minister for Finance on the Vote on Account said the diminution of savings which took place in 1955 is one cause of our deficit and difficulties. He went on to say: "Unless the public increase their savings in equal degree a very drastic reduction would have to be made in public capital outlay at great cost in terms of employment and the future prospect of improved living standards." The savings ground was not recovered. As the Minister for Finance announced in his Budget statement the total of savings in 1955 were £21,000,000 less than in 1954. Is that failure No. 5—to recover the savings ground lost in 1954? They could not even hold the 1954 position.

The Minister and the Taoiseach spoke last year, as did other Ministers, on the balance of payments position. They said that there was no problem. There is a problem this year and it has now developed to the dimensions of a national crisis, but the Government could not see the warning light. In his Budget statement of last year the Minister for Finance referred to the satisfactory position in 1954 and he said: "I have every hope that this improvement will be maintained." Later in the year in the debate on his Estimate, the Taoiseach again referred to this balance of payments position. He dismissed it as a matter of no importance. He said at column 1100 of Volume 152 of the Official Report:—

"The increase in the volume of imports in the current year was the result of industrial stock taking."

The widening gap in the balance of payments was not a matter for concern. It merely indicated the people in this country were for some reason stocking up. There was a deterioration in the terms of trade, but he added:—

"Export prices have fortunately recovered in the opening months of this year and the terms of trade have benefited accordingly."

Then he concluded his remarks on this balance of payments position by saying:—

"I do not believe that we need fear any crisis before the end of the present year."

If a Government can be condemned out of its own mouth, surely these declarations by the Taoiseach and the Minister for Finance condemn this Government because of their inability to read the signs aright and their incapacity to take action in time to deal with the dangers that were threatening.

Mark you, the Taoiseach appreciated the need or at least expressed his understanding of the need, for vigilance in that regard; he said that we had to watch that situation and that it was preferable to exercise vigilance than "to apply drastic, crude and uppredictable methods for restoring equilibrium after things had gone wrong." But they would not even follow the advice that they themselves were giving. They allowed things to go wrong and then resorted to drastic, crude and unpredictable methods in a futile effort to try to put them right again.

The Taoiseach was basing his hopes last year upon an improvement in the terms of trade. The Minister for Finance now dismisses that possibility contemptuously. In his Budget statement this year he said:—

"We can expect no relief from an improvement in the terms of trade."

In the debate on the Vote on Account he said:—

"The increase in the adverse trade balance was not caused to any significant degree by the terms of trade."

The situation which has developed in that regard is not entirely due to mismanagement and the application of wrong policy by the Government but, no doubt, if the Ministers 12 months ago were watching the signs carefully, if they had been less concerned to present a pleasant picture to the people for political purposes and were prepared to face up more realistically to their responsibilities as a Government, the dangers of that situation could have been greatly modified and remedial action taken much earlier.

So far, therefore, as we have had from the Government since it came into office a definite statement of its aims and intentions, the record shows that it has failed in every one of them. Are these aims still there? Will the Taoiseach now assure the Dáil that the Government is still trying to bring down the cost of living or to reduce the cost of Government, to lower the cost of Government borrowing and prevent a rise in bank lending charges? Will he now tell us that the balance of payments position is of no concern and that the improvement which was recorded in 1954 will be brought about again by some action of theirs in 1956 or 1957?

I will turn now for a moment from the general issues of policy with which I have been dealing to the specific proposals of the Budget. Deputy O'Higgins quoted a speech I made some time ago on the principles that should apply in devising the annual Budget of this State. I think it is true to say that most people who have written upon the theory of public finance subscribe to the view that it is desirable that the number of separate taxes should be kept as few as possible, that the State should rely for the bulk of its revenue on a few main taxes and should not try to multiply the number of separate taxes.

There is an obvious reason for that. It is undesirable that the hand of the tax-gatherer should be brought into business. The number of businesses subject to the regulation which is necessarily involved in the collection of taxes should be kept to a minimum. Government intervention for tax-raising purposes in any business always results in waste and is a cause of higher costs as well as of higher prices. Furthermore, it is obvious to expect that the smaller the yield from any tax the higher will be the proportion of that yield absorbed in collection expenses. And, the wider the number of taxes, the greater the prospect of successful evasion by individuals.

No system of taxation is working equitably unless everybody pays his due tax and, if there is scope for evasion in any tax, then the tax is a bad one and should be abolished unless the defects in it can be remedied. I contend, therefore, that the Budget proposals of the Minister for Finance were based upon bad financial principles. It would have been far wiser for him to have minimised the number of tax changes involved. If higher revenue had to be secured and higher taxes had to be imposed upon the people, the Minister could have achieved that objective while at the same time keeping down the number of new taxes brought into operation. May I express the view that it was bad politics also, but that is the Government's concern?

Let us take the taxes as they are set out in this White Paper that was circulated. Deputy O'Higgins was trying to represent me as arguing in favour of an increase in income-tax. That was a crude misrepresentation. I never have argued in favour of an increase in income-tax. Indeed, I think that there is an urgent need to revise our income-tax arrangements, especially in regard to earned incomes Only in the past few weeks have I personally in a business capacity had a very vivid illustration of the extent to which the incidence of income-tax upon wages is reducing productivity; and I believe that the time has come when we must face up to the fact that we cannot continue to collect income-tax from classes of wage earners, who never paid it previously, without its having some adverse reactions upon their output.

The Minister is relying mainly upon the increased tobacco tax in order to close his Budget gap. The new tobacco tax is, I understand, designed to bring in more than half of the total amount which he now requires. I think I should say that, if rising costs of Government make necessary an increase in taxation, then tobacco is as good a source of that higher revenue as any other, and better than most. I am not objecting in principle to the Government attempting to rectify the position necessitated by its inability to control rising costs of Government by having recourse to an increased tax on tobacco. I believe, if the Government had been serious in its effort to prune the cost of administration and to cut out extravagances in Government, do all the things the Taoiseach was talking about last year, this tax would not have been necessary; but, through their incompetence, they have made higher taxation necessary and this tax is preferable to others that might have been used. But I think the House is entitled to some information regarding it.

Last year, the price of cigarettes and tobacco was increased by ministerial Order. That increase was fixed after a formal inquiry by the Prices Advisory Body and, presumably, a report from that body that the manufacturers of cigarettes and tobacco required an increased price to off-set higher costs and maintain their profits. Was there any inquiry now, before the Minister decided to give them a further increase? Of the total sum which the public will pay in tobacco tax this year, the Government will take £3,000,000 and the manufacturers will take something between £300,000 and £500,000. Was there any investigation of their need for that increased margin? Did anybody discuss with them the increase in costs which has occurred since the last time the Government sanctioned a higher price for cigarettes and tobacco, and decided that they needed that additional amount to maintain their profits? Was the formality of consulting the Prices Advisory Body adopted? Did the Minister just merely think of a figure and decide that that would be adequate to buy off any opposition from the manufacturers or the traders?

I admit that the mere fact that the tobacco tax has been raised increases the costs to the manufacturers. They have to maintain substantial stocks of tobacco in bond and in the course of manufacture, and, consequently, their manufacturing charges are raised by the mere fact that the tax is raised. But I do not think that these charges are raised to the extent to which the Minister is compensating them or to necessitate a ½d. In the packet of 20 cigarettes for their benefit.

The next main duty imposed by the Minister was on petrol. The Minister prefaced his announcement of the decision to increase the petrol duty by saying that petrol is largely used for unessential purposes. The implication was that he wanted to get revenue from petrol used for non-essential purposes, and, indeed, that implication was emphasised by his subsequent announcement that petrol used by farmers would not bear the increased tax. I wonder does the Government know what it is doing in this regard? The number of private motor cars and motor vehicles registered, that is to say, cars of the ordinary type designed for the carriage of passengers, represents only slightly over 50 per cent. of the total number of vehicles on the road. The balance is represented by commercial vehicles of one kind or another, and much more than half of the total petrol consumed in this country is consumed in commercial vehicles; and of the private cars in use, it probably would not be an exaggeration to say that 80 per cent. of them are required by their owners for the purposes of their businesses. The extent to which petrol is used for purely recreational purposes is quite small, and probably would not represent 10 per cent. of the total consumption of petrol annually here.

If the Minister had in mind, therefore, the getting in of additional revenue from a luxury, he has hit a great deal more than those who use petrol as a luxury. He has hit every business in the country which requires to use road transport. He has made another addition to our industrial costs, and, goodness knows, they are high enough. It is certain that, to some extent, every price in the country will have to be adjusted upwards because of this additional charge. But, over and above that tax on petrol used for transport, the Minister has imposed another tax on industrial fuel oil.

I know that Irish industries have gone over in quite a considerable degree to the use of fuel oil in preference to the use of solid fuel. They have done so because they could cut their costs by doing so; and whatever disadvantages there may be to this country in using imported fuel oil rather than native fuel for industrial purposes, we cannot afford any further charge upon industry or any further expansion in industrial costs. The continuing decline in our exports is a warning light that the Government cannot ignore. People abroad will not buy our produce unless we can give it at a price they are prepared to pay. If the Government keep loading new charges on industry, then it is inevitable that our export industries will be further handicapped in finding sales abroad.

I see in the Press that the Minister has refused to receive a deputation of taximen objecting to the increase on petrol as it applies to them. I am not surprised at his refusal to meet them, because, honestly, I do not know what argument he could put up. If it is true that his aim was to get additional revenue from the luxury use of petrol, "the unessential use of petrol", to use his own phrase, and if, in order to limit the additional charge to that end, he exempts farmers from the charge, what argument can he use to the taximen and to the commercial lorry owners and to others to whom the use of petrol is an essential raw material, an even more essential raw material than it is to those who work on the land? It may be that the Minister will be persuaded to modify his proposal in that regard, but I do not think it is likely. It is certainly entirely misleading for him to talk of the unessential uses of petrol as a prelude to announcing the increased tax.

I think that the motor traders and motorists generally would not have objected to the increased tax upon petrol if it had been accompanied by an announcement of an intention to introduce a flat rate of road tax. Indeed, I think it is true to say that, following an interview with the Minister, the representatives of the motor trade were under the impression that that announcement would be made on the occasion of the Budget. The present system of taxing cars——

I beg the Deputy's pardon.

Mr. Lemass

I said the motor traders were under the impression that that announcement would be made.

I thought the Deputy referred to a deputation?

Mr. Lemass

A deputation was received from the motor traders.

Mr. Lemass

In the Department of Finance.

The Deputy is as accurate in that as he has been in the rest of his speech this morning. I received no deputation from the motor traders and I was asked to receive no deputation from the motor traders.

Mr. Lemass

I will give the Minister the facts.

I am telling the Deputy the facts.

Mr. Lemass

Representations were made to the Department of Finance by the motor trade for the alteration of the present system of taxation on the basis of horse power in favour of a system of a flat rate of tax.

What year was that done?

Mr. Lemass

It has been done every year for years past. Personally, I am completely in favour of it. There are only two countries in the world that have not made that change. This is one and Malaya is the other. The obsolete system of taxation we have should be abolished. I can see at once that the alteration could not be made except on the 1st January, that an announcement in the Budget could only relate to an intention on the part of the Government to make the alteration as at 1st January next, and that in order to maintain the revenue of the Road Fund, even though the Minister is proposing to raid that fund, some adjustment in petrol tax would be required.

There were 19 1st of Januaries that you were there and, though you disapproved of the system, you did not change it.

Mr. Lemass

Circumstances change and there has been a very considerable change in the design of motor cars in the past few years. The Minister should realise that the problems which were of minor importance or not very acute some years ago, have become of major importance or quite acute now. The world will not stand still just because there was a change of Government.

Hear, hear.

Mr. Lemass

I want to turn now to the next tax which the Minister has proposed, the tax upon racecourse betting. I do not know if Deputies opposite appreciate the economic importance of the racecourses of this country in the scheme of things here. The racecourses are the shop windows of our horse-breeding industry and our horse-breeding industry is a £3,000,000 industry. Our exports of horses last year, according to the trade statistics, amounted to just £3,000,000 and there has been an enormous improvement in that business, an enormous increase in its importance in recent years, primarily due to the legislation which was passed here in 1945 and the establishment of the racing board. The Government of that day appreciated the importance of the economic development of that industry and set up that racing board and gave it certain powers to make a levy upon bets struck with bookmakers and to receive income from the totalisator. It has brought about improvements far beyond anything we even anticipated at the time. Not merely have horse-racing facilities in the country been greatly improved, but the whole horse-breeding industry has, in consequence of that development, taken on an economic importance far exceeding anything it had previously.

At the time that that legislation was being passed, there was opposition to it amongst those who were responsible for the control of racing in this country on the ground that it was undesirable that the Government should come into the business at all because, if it came in, it would inevitably, sooner or later, use it as a source of taxation. I think I am correct in saying that a movement for the establishment of a similar board in Britain was defeated on that argument, that it was unwise to let the Government in because it would be too much of a temptation to a Minister for Finance to have machinery there that could be made a source of revenue to the Government. We recognised at the time, and the Minister for Finance of the day said in the Dáil, that it was a potential source of revenue for the State but that we had decided to forego it in order to make it possible to operate this new method of expanding horse-racing facilities and improving the horse-breeding industry. Now the Government has decided to ignore the policy of that day and to extract from the business a sum of £250,000 a year.

Mr. Lemass

The Minister has said he will put a stamp tax on the revenue of the racing board equivalent to 2½ per cent. on the bookmakers and 5 per cent. on the totalisator. That is the whole income of the racing board. That is the only income they have, the 2½ per cent. levy on the bookmakers and 5 per cent. on the totalisator, and the whole of that is being taken.

Tell the proper story. The proposal was that the levy would be increased to 5 per cent. and the totalisator extraction to 15 per cent.

Mr. Lemass

Yes, and the Minister for Finance said to the racing board.

"You can compensate yourself for that by increasing your charges on betting, increasing your levy on the totalisator."

They can get exactly the same as before.

Mr. Lemass

The Minister for Finance realises that the law of diminishing returns will operate there as elsewhere and although a particular revenue is secured by levy at one rate, if you double that rate you do not double the income. It is inevitable the income of the racing board will decline. If they resort to higher charges or abolish some of the facilities which they now give, I think it will be a retrograde and an undesirable step to take and I would urge the Minister to reconsider it. I do not know if the revenue which he hopes to get will, in fact, be realised. It may be and it may not. It is a very small sum in relation to a Budget of £130,000,000. Is it not certain that the Minister's estimate of revenue from taxation this year will be wrong to the extent of at least £1,000,000 one way or the other? In these circumstances, this small charge upon the revenue of the racing board can be of no consequence.

I do not know whether the tax upon betting in the starting price offices is likely to have any effect. I think it will and that the Minister has pushed the tax there to the point at which he will kill the goose. That 7½ per cent. levy drew a certain revenue. He has increased that to 10 per cent. and I am quite certain the total amount which will come into the Exchequer will not be increased, that the effect of pushing the levy to 10 per cent. will be considerably to curtail the amount of revenue which will be available. The Minister may say: "It is not very important. I will get the same revenue anyway." But did he consider that, according to the census, there are 1,700 people employed in these betting shops? Maybe they are a desirable institution and maybe they are not, but they are certainly a means of livelihood, a means of bread and butter, to 1,700 people. Some proportion of them, perhaps a considerable proportion, will lose their employment, and the amount of money which the levy will mean to the Exchequer is of no consequence in relation to a Budget of the dimensions which the Minister has produced here.

Let me say a few words about the dance tax. I have said that a multiplicity of small taxes is undesirable because, inevitably, the cost of collection will be an undue proportion of the total receipts. That was the experience in relation to this dance tax. The cost of collecting this tax will be out of all proportion to the amount that the Exchequer will receive. The Minister hopes to get in £100,000 but he will not tell us how much will be spent in getting it. It is quite conceivable that he will spend £100,000 in getting it in, if he enforces it properly and takes proper measures to prevent the evasions which were characteristic of that tax in the past. It is precisely the wrong type of tax. I am not saying there is any objection in principle to using dancing as a source of revenue, to imposing a tax upon dancing for the purpose of State funds, if it is practicable to do so. The only reason why this tax was abolished was because it was a bad tax, because it was not bringing in money. I know at the time it was made the subject of political controversy by Deputies opposite. I believe that that is why this tax has been imposed, not for the purposes of the Budget, but out of malice. It was solely for the purpose of justifying their opposition to the removal of the tax in 1952.

What is the intention of the Government regarding dances for the purposes of charity? Is it proposed to levy 25 per cent. on the admission price paid to dances run for charitable purposes? There are a number of dances for very desirable charities run in Dublin and throughout the country.

Did I not make it perfectly clear?

Mr. Lemass

No.

I said that the remission of the entertainment tax that exists where entertainments are run for charitable purposes would also apply to dances for charity.

Mr. Lemass

Is it intended to apply this tax to what is known as dinner dances? There is no clear definition in the Financial Resolution. I am referring to the case of a hotel where a charge is made for dinner and where the dance is free. What will be a dinner dance consist of? Will it be possible to sell a cup of tea and a few sandwiches for 5/- and call that a dinner dance? The scope for evasion is far too wide. That is the reason I say that it is a stupid tax. I am quite certain that if the Government did not have that malicious desire to justify their action on this tax in 1952 it would never have appeared in the Budget statement.

There are two other taxes to which I wish to refer. The Minister has introduced, in his Budget statement, what is referred to as the initial allowance, which he said is a form of tax remission and which he described as being an inducement to provide a stimulus to investment. It is nothing of the kind. It is merely an advancement of the ordinary wear-and-tear allowance payable to the industrial user of machinery and equipment. It represents, to some extent, a tax free loan from the Exchequer to that person. It was introduced in Britain in 1945 and it failed in its purpose there, so much that the British Government replaced the initial allowance by an investment allowance. Of course it is true that the position in Britain has changed again since then. The level of new investment in industry had increased so rapidly that it represented part of their inflationary problem there so that the British Government have now withdrawn the investment allowance and replaced it by the initial allowance.

In our circumstances, however, the real need is for an investment allowance. It would cost the Exchequer nothing for the present financial year. The country needs an inducement to investment. The initial allowance may be of some value in making money available for capital purposes, that industry might otherwise have difficulty in obtaining, but the need for industrial expansion is so great that we cannot rely on inadequate measures such as the initial allowance. The Minister should have taken closer cognisance of the history of that initial allowance in Britain before relying on it here.

The Minister referred to changes in Section 7 of the Finance Act of 1952. That section failed in its purpose. It was conceived to give a tax inducement to investment in the shares of Irish companies. A close study of the figures will show how ineffective that concession was. The nominal value of the shares of Irish companies registered in the Irish stock exchanges is approximately £48,000,000. The provisions of Section 7 of the Finance Act of 1952 relate only to £7,000,000 of that £48,000,000. If we assume that these companies earned profits and paid dividends of an average of 5 per cent., then it is clear that some £350,000 would have been distributed and 20 per cent. of that sum, or £70,000, would have represented the cost of the concession to the Exchequer. The fact is that the cost was £7,500 and that supports my contention that Section 7 of the Finance Act of 1952 failed in its purpose. The real reason was that those concerned did not know the relief was available or did not trouble to make application for the concession because of the procedure which operated.

It is necessary for the industrial shareholder to apply, as an individual, to the Revenue Commissioners for the refund of the 20 per cent., and to prove bona fide ownership of his shares. Most of these people are small shareholders and the amount involved in each case would be only a few shillings so that it was not worth the trouble of applying. If the Minister wants to maintain that section of the Act would it not be easier to provide that the rate of the tax on distributed profits would be 20 per cent. of the standard rate? Would it not be easier to say that in respect of the distributed profits in company's liability would be the standard rate less 20 per cent.? In that way the individual shareholder would get his warrant with the lower rate of tax deducted from it. Most people would argue that, in our circumstances, it would be better to reduce taxation on non-distributed, rather than on distributed profits. The Minister will have an opportunity of doing that when he brings in the Finance Bill.

There are other tax matters to which I will refer when the Finance Bill comes before us. There are few Deputies here who do not feel that the Budget of this year will place further obstacles in the way of national recovery and do further damage to the public morale. Ministers do not appreciate the damage they have done to the public morale by their glowing by-election promises followed by their dismal failure to achieve anything approaching the things which they held out to the country as being so easily achievable. Field-Marshal Montgomery described morale in the case of a soldier as confidence—confidence in his leaders, in his arms and in his purpose. The morale of the people of a country like ours is made up of the same ingredients.

It consists of confidence in the country's leadership and here there are no signs of any such confidence or of any leadership. There is no confidence in the soundness of the Government's plans and policies and indeed there is no sign of any plan or any policy. So far as any aims of the Government have been declared these aims have not been realised. Preoccupation with politics would appear to be their only object. Their sole concern is to keep a basis on which they can hope to retain votes in the next election.

There have been four by-elections in the last six months and in these by-elections the votes in the aggregate gave a majority in favour of a change of Government, a clear majority. I do not suppose the people are going to get a chance of changing the Government, but the warning to the Government is clear—that the people are not prepared to put up with the type of ballyhoo they were given yesterday by the Minister for Agriculture. They want solid work from the Government, something in the way of a statement of practical intentions with some indication of the measures that are going to be taken to bring those intentions to reality. They have not got that from the Government; they have got a purely political approach to national questions. So long as the present Government is there, until the people get a chance of changing that Government, the responsibility is theirs and they are not discharging that responsibility in a proper way.

This Budget debate gives the Government an opportunity of stating in a frank and honest manner to the public—which they have not done before—what they think can be done, or what they intend to try to do this year, not the type of misleading statement which we got from the Taoiseach last year, but a practical appraisal of the difficulties of our position and what the Government is going to do about them.

We have just listened to a speech lasting over one hour and during the entire course of that speech there was not one single constructive or helpful suggestion or proposal to meet the difficulties which exist in this country at the present time. Therefore, I do not propose to answer in any way the type of speech that has just been made by Deputy Lemass. We are gratified as a Government, and gratified on this side of the House among all the Parties supporting the Government, to know and to realise that there has been accorded generally throughout the country to this Budget and the proposals contained in it quite a favourable reception, having regard to the type of Budget that had to be introduced by the Minister for Finance in the circumstances of this time. Having regard to that generally favourable reception throughout the country, and to the course of the debate that has taken place on the Budget proposals here, I can restrict the observations that I have to make on this Budget to a very narrow range.

In the course of his Budget speech the Minister for Finance outlined the principles on which the Budget is based. I think it would be useful if I were to re-state, or at least summarise, those principles. Those principles are: (1) the current Budget must be balanced on sound and realistic lines; (2) while our capital expenditure must be measured with prudence until savings have caught up with or come near to closing the inflationary gap, our capital programme at approximately the same level as last year must be continued, care being taken in the formulation of that programme to preserve an equitable balance between social and economic considerations; (3) the forces of inflation which are upsetting our economy must be moderated; (4) some provision within the very limited resources available must be made to encourage savings and production; (5) the inevitable taxation must be levied in order to meet essential forms of expenditure particularly on imports.

The outstanding feature of the debate on these proposals contained in the Budget, so far, has been that there has been no criticism—certainly no real criticism—of these principles, or of the application in detail of these principles and proposals. No suggestion has been made that they have not been fully carried out.

We listened just a short time ago to Deputy Lemass. I did not gather from him that he in any way controverted these principles, nor did he suggest that these principles were not sound or that they have not, in fact, been carried out. He did suggest that he objected to the particular taxation that was imposed and said, in his view, the imposition of these taxes was founded on wrong financial principles. He went down through the list of all the Budget imposts and objected to every one of them and gave his reasons for objecting to them. He never made any suggestion as to where the money was to be got or what other forms of taxation could be imposed instead of those suggested by the Minister.

It is the easiest thing in the world to frame cogent reasons against every particular item of taxation or every form of taxation suggested. That was an easy task for Deputy Lemass, but it is very significant that he did not suggest how the inevitable taxation was to be levied, if it was not to be levied in accordance with the principles stated by the Minister, or on the lines proposed in this Budget. Is there any other conclusion to be drawn from his destructive criticism of these proposals, from his making suggestions about cutting expenditure, but that his suggestion is to cut food subsidies or to cut social services? That is a resort of which we will not take advantage.

I think I am entitled to say as a result of the discussion on this Budget and the type of discussion we had, that the principles on which this Budget have been formulated have been accepted as sound, that it has been accepted by this House and on all sides of the House if not implicitly, then inferentially, that the Budget proposed is a sound Budget, a constructive Budget and one that, having regard to the circumstances in which it had to be framed, is the best that could be produced in those circumstances.

There have been suggestions throughout the course of this debate about Government expenditure, the high level of Government expenditure, and other suggestions as to why expenditure was not cut down, but through the whole course of this debate, so far as I know, there has not been a single suggestion, with the possible exception of what Deputy Childers said yesterday afternoon, as to how Government expenditure could be cut down. I shall leave it to the speakers who follow me to deal with the suggestions made by Deputy Childers. Apparently, according to Deputy Childers everything is to be cut down except old age pensions and perhaps a few other matters of that kind. No other suggestion has been made as to how Government expenditure could be cut down. There has not been one single suggestion made by anyone on the Opposition benches, among those who spoke on this Budget, giving the slightest indication of any item whatsoever of excessive expenditure in the Estimate for which taxation is to be imposed this year. No Deputy who has spoken against these proposals and advocated cutting Government expenditure has stated in any single respect where there is any wasteful expenditure, in what respect any expenditure, even if not wasteful in the productive sense of that term, can be cut down in existing circumstances.

Having regard to the destructive speech just made by Deputy Lemass, I think we are entitled to say that we approach the discussion of this Budget on the ground that it is a sound Budget, and admitted to be sound, and that the inevitable taxation that had to be placed, in the circumstances facing us at the time, has been placed in such a way that it will cause least disturbance and least distress. Deputy Lemass spent a considerable portion of his speech in giving extracts from my speeches and from speeches of my colleagues as to what we aimed to do, and suggested what we did not do. The value of his criticism, and of his contribution to this debate and to the solution of our difficult problems can well be measured by the admission which he was forced to make towards the close of his speech when he was criticising the petrol tax and advocating the abolition of the existing system of taxation on horse power.

He was forced to admit that although, apparently, for a number of years he himself while in Government was entirely in favour of it, nothing was done to give effect to his particular point of view, but now because of changing circumstances, he is entitled to have that point of view and express it and urge it upon us. If he is entitled to take to himself the benefit of changing circumstances, is he, for that reason, entitled destructively to criticise us for what we said last year, or for what we have failed to carry out, what we hoped to carry out but failed to carry out because of changing circumstances in difficult times in a changing world?

This Budget has been the result, on the part of the Minister for Finance, of much labour and very anxious thought over the last few, very trying, months. I think the country is entitled to congratulate itself as a result of that long and arduous labour on the part of the Minister for Finance and his anxiety to lessen the burden on the people and to put it where it will cause least trouble and least burden, that we have been able to produce such a sound and constructive Budget as has been produced this year. Every item in the Estimates was scrutinised by him and subsequently, the result of his scrutiny was submitted to his colleagues in the Government. Every item of current expenditure was subjected to the closest examination, with a view to cutting down to the very minimum, in existing circumstances, every item that goes to make up the bill that has to be faced during the coming year. Even though it was realised to the full how in the circumstances of this country, the investment of capital in our undeveloped resources is so essential, nevertheless, every item of capital expenditure was screened and scrutinised with the utmost care. The method of financing it was thought out with anxious care.

In the result, the Minister has been able to maintain that capital expenditure, provided our savings come up, as it is hoped they will, to the required mark for the benefit of our people and to keep people in employment. There has not been a single criticism, even by Deputy Lemass in his destructive speech, of those items of capital expenditure or of our plans regarding it. I would regard the suggestion that people will not save as something like what the Minister for Agriculture said yesterday, when he spoke about the criticism of Deputies opposite regarding agriculturists not producing, and said that, in effect, what they were saying was advising the farmers not to produce until Fianna Fáil got back into Government. When Deputy Lemass speaks about the failure of people to save, and the desire not to save, it is rather an intimation to them that they should not save in order to embarrass the Government still further.

We have carried out a difficult task in difficult times in this Budget in the most humane way possible. We have carried it out in a way that I think is in strict accordance with all the principles upon which we have been endeavouring to act. Last year we gave relief to the old age pensioners, the widows and orphans and to the contributory pensioners. We set the headline years ago in reference to the reliefs which we hoped to give in taxation, when we took the poorest sections of the community first, and had scrupulous regard for family obligations, and then relaxed the burden of income-tax on the family. We gave allowances last year, and again this year there is a small allowance for married men. It is small, but it adds up and it is useful. It is accepted as such by those in whose favour the small concession has been granted.

We discharged in part, at least, or, at least, we gave an indication of the bona fides, in difficult circumstances, of our concern for the old pensioners, whose circumstances have been so trying over the last few years. Deputy Lemass suggested that nothing was done in this Budget to encourage production. At least, the Minister gave an indication of his desire to do so in the reliefs or the allowances for depreciation. That was tossed off by Deputy Lemass as of no import. The Minister also showed his concern for the agricultural community who are relieved of certain imposts of taxation which might otherwise fall on them.

These reliefs are small but in difficult and trying circumstances, we are entitled to say to those people who are engaged in industry and agriculture, that we are concerned to encourage them in production and in doing the necessary work that is desired of them in order to achieve the results that we hope for and the necessary production that is so urgently required. Deputy Lemass sneered at the savings, but at least for the first time here there has been less talk about the necessity for savings and more done to encourage savings than ever was done by Fianna Fáil in the whole course of their administration.

Mr. Lemass

And less saving.

Better stop encouraging them.

During their administration Deputies opposite talked about the necessity for saving but never gave any encouragement to saving.

We induced them.

At least, we have done something in this Budget to show our deep concern for the necessity of savings in the national interest.

You left them nothing to save.

We have given an allowance for income-tax. I am glad to say that that is in accordance with what was advocated by us at the time when Fianna Fáil were in Government and we were in Opposition and they were imposing this tax in the 1952 Budget and exhorting people to save without giving any incentive to save.

I spoke at a meeting in Killarney on the 30th January, 1952, just when we were anticipating what would be done and what was in fact done by the Budget of 1952 and, not content with destructive criticism such as Deputy Lemass has engaged in to-day, I gave a series of constructive proposals. I am glad to say that one of them is being carried out in this Budget by the present Minister for Finance.

The Minister for Finance at that time had been advocating and talking about savings but doing nothing about it and doing nothing to encourage it. I indicated the lines on which savings could be encouraged—the formation of saving groups, the appeal to publicmen, the appeal to trade unionists, to form savings groups—and then I said that there should be savings groups formed and organised under the mantle of Governmental encouragement, that the income from new savings up to a certain limit should be free from tax or, at least, given the benefit of the earned income allowance.

I am glad to say that some, at least, of these proposals are being carried out in this Budget and I hope that, notwithstanding the discouragement which has been given from the opposite benches, the savings campaign which has been initiated will, in fact, encourage our people to save so that, saving, they may give their real contribution to helping to solve the economic and financial difficulties that face us and that would face any Government in our position at the present moment.

The British Chancellor of the Exchequer must have read my speech in Killarney on that occasion or it must have been called to his attention because I said at that time that the speculative and gaming instincts of our people could fairly be relied on to show an increased interest in a scheme for drawing savings certificates for prizes at periodic intervals such as, perhaps, every quarter or half year. We have not, certainly, as yet, adopted that particular proposal but, apparently, the British Chancellor of the Exchequer thought there was something in it.

I think it is the duty of every responsible Deputy to assist the Government in that savings campaign. Whether we are in Government for a short or for a long time, whatever Government is here will require to inculcate in our people the necessity for saving, to bring it home to them that when they save they are doing work really for themselves as well as for their country and that, without savings, particularly in the existing trying circumstances, there can be no hope of continuing the capital investment that is necessary in this country if we are to increase the standard of living or if we are to increase the investment of foreign capital which is so urgently desired.

I think it is very appropriate, in present circumstances, to repeat the aphorism with which Deputies are probably familiar: Every frugal man is a public benefactor and every prodigal a public nuisance.

Mr. de Valera

Hear, hear.

I am glad to know that the Leader of the Opposition, Deputy de Valera, approves of that proposition.

Mr. de Valera

I am only sorry it was not said long ago.

I hope he will give more constructive support towards savings than the destructive criticism his colleague, Deputy Lemass, gave this morning.

I hope it applies to Governments equally as to individuals.

It most certainly does and we have given every proof of it.

We hope to have some example of it.

The example of Deputy Childers yesterday?

That would be a good one.

I have said that we have gone through, and particularly the Minister for Finance has gone through, a very trying period in the last few months and I repeat that it is gratifying to know, now that these Budget proposals have been made known to the people, that those difficulties are fully appreciated and that a favourable reception has been given to this Budget. I am more gratified still when I consider that this Budget has evoked the widespread appreciation of the sense of responsibility with which it was framed and of the soundness of the principle on which it was based. The people have realised and appreciate that we had a difficult job and that we faced up to and did not shirk our responsibility.

This Budget has been framed to meet a very serious situation, framed by the second inter-Party Government composed of members of different Parties and different groups. We have been accustomed since the inter-Party Government was formed in 1948, since it was reformed again in 1954, to the type of propaganda that has been made about the members of that Government. We have heard speeches in this House and we have heard of speeches made outside the House by Deputies of the Fianna Fáil Party and their supporters, sneering at the inter-Party Government, suggesting that they had no sense of responsibility, suggesting that they were in no way cohesive and in no way working as a team. We have, even up to this very morning, the leading article in the Irish Press, I am told, suggesting the same sort of thing.

One section of the propaganda confines itself to suggesting to the farmers and the business community that the Labour Party is running the Government. An exactly contrary line of argument is then suggested to working people throughout the country—that Fine Gael is absorbing the Labour Party. Those two types of poisonous propaganda have been utilised, to the great national disadvantage, to try to suggest that the Government has no sense of its responsibility, that it has no cohesion and that it is incapable of taking unpopular decisions.

It is some compensation to us, certainly, to me personally, to realise that this Budget now demonstrates to any fair-minded person that the Government is capable of facing up to, and has faced up to, its responsibilities in as serious a situation as ever faced any Government in this country since the State was established.

I have no hope that this lying propaganda will end but I have hope, not merely from the Governmental point of view, but from the national point of view, deriving from the fact that there is widespread appreciation of the fact that this Government, consisting of various Parties, faced with a difficult situation, faced with the responsibility of taking very unpopular decisions in the last six or eight months, has not shirked that responsibility and every member from every Party in that Government has worked together loyally as a team and loyally in the national interests. If ability to introduce and secure the passage through the Dáil of a Budget such as this, which the Minister for Finance described towards the end of his Budget speech as being not popular in the ordinary sense and containing many unpalatable features, is to be the test of political responsibility, then this inter-Party Government has satisfied and more than satisfied that test. It is a matter of great personal gratification to me that I am able, here, to pay tribute to the loyalty of my colleagues from every Party and to the loyalty of all Parties supporting the Government in dealing with very difficult and very trying circumstances.

In the course of this debate there were, as was to be expected, many references to the so-called "election promises". Deputy MacEntee referred to it as "flogging a dead horse". Perhaps he should have said "a dead duck", because that propaganda is as dead as the deadest. I have placed on the records of this House quotations from my own speeches. They have not been controverted, as they could not be controverted. I have said before and I state again to-day that, when I was conducting the election campaign in the course of the 1954 General Election, it was pretty obvious that I was the potential leader of an inter-Party Government if the results of the general election pointed that way. I took great care about every speech I made—and I made no promise, except one. I have given quotations from speeches I made in answer to speeches by Deputy deValera demonstrating and proving beyond all shadow of controversy that the only promise I made was the promise to give good government to the best of my ability. That good government has been given to this country by the present inter-Party Government in the past two years and will continue so to be given. It has been given in many ways during that period but never in such a significant fashion—never in such a way as to ensure stability and inspire confidence— as in the way this Government has faced its responsibilities in the difficult and trying times of the past six months and in the proposals put forward in the present Budget.

I have stated, and I repeat, that people on the opposite benches, from the Leader down, have not hesitated to stir up for political advantage—but at great cost to the nation—antagonism between different social classes and to suggest that there was something sinister in Labour, farmers and Fine Gael working together for the good of the country. It is a source of immense satisfaction to me to be able to demonstrate, not by a mere word but by positive action, that different Parties representing the different groups of our society can work together loyally as a team in the common interest and the common good to secure enduring and substantial progress.

It is very apparent and, indeed, generally recognised that, as outlined in the economic survey contained in the Minister's Budget speech, a serious situation has arisen in this country which no Government could properly disregard. Deputy Lemass—recalling, perhaps, shadowy recollections of the famous White Paper of 1951 when there was supposed to be a crisis— said there had developed in the country a situation amounting almost to a national crisis. However, just as there was no crisis then, except in the fervid imagination of himself and his colleague, Deputy MacEntee, there is no crisis now but there is a serious and critical situation and serious problems to be dealt with in a serious way. I assume, from the speech made by Deputy Lemass this morning, that the Government is in some way responsible for the development of that critical situation. He did not say so specifically, but he implied it. In no way and in no manner whatsoever is the Government responsible by anything they did or left undone for the critical situation which has faced them in the past few months. Notwithstanding the fact that we are not responsible for that situation—either in what we did or failed to do—we accept, as the Minister for Finance stated in his Budget speech, that the Government has some responsibility to do its part to achieve the national objective so urgently desired and we will carry out that responsibility to the full even though we may give our political opponents material for use for political Party purposes.

While the situation is serious and, perhaps, critical, there is no foundation whatever for the prophecies of gloom that have been emanating from the Fianna Fáil Benches over the past few days. An individual may have a very sound constitution—I think that is the medical term—and may still suffer from a particular disease, even a serious disease, which requires careful diagnosis and proper treatment. We have faith in this country and in the fundamental soundness of its economy. We know that the country is suffering from an economic illness at the present moment. We have known for some few months past of the onset of that particular illness and we have taken steps—we believe proper steps and, we hope, adequate steps—to diagnose and apply the proper remedies for that illness. We did not wait until the illness had reached a serious point before we took action.

Right throughout the whole of last year, a most careful watch was kept on the international situation and particularly on the development of our balances of payments in connection with it. It was not until the close of the autumn that the matter began to look serious. Nobody has suggested up to this from the opposite benches or anywhere else that we could have diagnosed this illness any earlier than we did or taken any action at a time prior to the period when we did take positive action. Towards the close of the year, when it became apparent that the expectations which were founded upon past experience were not going to be realised and that our exports in the last quarter of the year were not coming up to the standard expected, we took immediate action. We acquiesced in the raising of the bank rate. That is one of the classical correctives, as the economists term it, to meet a situation of that kind. That action was taken some time before Christmas.

Shortly after Christmas, early in January, I addressed the Cork Chamber of Commerce and gave them a factual and extremely gloomy outline of the economic and financial situation as it then existed and I warned the country of what was then facing us. Then, as the adverse balance of payments showed an adverse trend in the months that followed, we took drastic action to remedy that matter, and, in the present Budget, the proposals are supplemental to and entirely consistent with the steps we took to deal with that economic ill we had diagnosed.

We have been faced with, and we are facing, a situation which, I think, I am entitled to say has the economic physicians baffled. Faced with that situation, we took not merely successful remedies but appropriate remedies. We hope that they are adequate. There are signs that they are adequate, but if they are not adequate, then further and more drastic steps will be taken, if they are thought to be necessary. I believe that we have a sound, healthy economic body, constitutionally and functionally, in this country. I do not believe the gloomy prophecies of those who have been crying despair and gloom. I think they are doing it only for political Party purposes. I think we have a serious task to discharge and serious steps to take and these tasks will be discharged, and these steps will be taken.

We are not the only country in the world that has suffered economic and financial difficulties in the last six or eight months. We cannot hope to isolate ourselves from the economic disturbances that are widespread throughout the world. Nobody has suggested from the opposite benches that there is anything that we could have done or anything that we have left undone to shelter ourselves against these forces, many of which took us suddenly and which attacked more powerful and richer countries than ourselves. We could not hope to avoid the consequences of the financial and economic disturbance that took place last year with our best customer and nearest neighbour across the water.

We have had adverse factors from the economic disturbances in Great Britain. We have had our economy suffer from the inflationary consequences of the enormous defence expenditure all over the world, without getting any of the advantages of that expenditure. We have suffered also from the measures taken by other countries to correct the inflationary tendencies. To some extent—perhaps a large extent—our own people contributed to our difficulties because of the attempt—an attempt always foredoomed to failure—to take more out of the system by way of consumption than is put into it by way of production. We have to face the fact that our own people have contributed to a very large extent to our difficulties, but our difficulties were, in the main, caused by things beyond our control.

Mr. Lemass

Everyone is blamed except the Government.

I am entitled to say that, while our own people are to some extent to blame for that, it would perhaps be explicable by and justified by the reaction of our people to the austerity that had been inflicted upon them by the régime of Fianna Fáil and the Budget of 1952.

Deputy Lemass and Deputy MacEntee spoke about the failure of the National Loan last year. There have always been attempts, as there are of course now, by hypocritical persons to suggest that national credit has been impaired by the failure of a loan, and that anything they can do to help they would do it.

Mr. Lemass

You accused us of destroying it.

Deputy Lemass knows—at least I give him the credit of thinking that he ought to know— that that loan was not subscribed for two reasons. Deputy Lemass nearly caught himself out this morning, and just saved himself, when he was criticising what the Minister for Agriculture had stated yesterday, that the failure of the loan was caused by the fact that the British raised the bank rate a day or two after we had opened this loan. Of course, it was not alone because of that factor. There were other factors, but that was the chief factor in contributing to the fact that the loan was not fully subscribed.

Mr. Lemass

What were the others?

Our own people did not save enough during that year and that itself was one of the factors that contributed to the fact that the loan was not fully subscribed. The chief factor, if not the sole factor, which contributed to the failure of that loan was, as Deputy Lemass knows full well, the fact that the British raised their bank rate a day or two after the loan was opened here. If the Fianna Fáil Party want to draw any conclusions adverse to the national interests from the failure of that National Loan, I suggest that they consider not merely the failure of three Government loans at the same time, but also the failure of British local loans within the last few weeks which were offered on very attractive terms. For information on that, I would refer Deputy Lemass to the current issue of The Economist.

Last year was an exceptional year, in that the Government was confronted in that year of 1955 with the position that the commercial banks were forced, in order to finance the deficit in the balance of payments, to realise some £35,500,000 of their resources, so that they could clear the deficit in the balance of payments. We had Deputy Childers yesterday afternoon saying that all our troubles in reference to our balance of payments position this year or last year, and all our economic ills, are traceable to the policy of prudent repatriation of our external assets. That policy of prudent repatriation of our external assets was initiated by the inter-Party Government in 1949 and Deputy Childers said that it began with a speech I made to the Institute of Bankers in 1949.

I want to refute that suggestion and to make it clear to all fairminded people, not merely in self-justification but in the national interests, that that policy of prudent repatriation of our external assets is one that we still adhere to. Our policy in that regard has been consistent from 1949, whether we were in or out of office. It is the policy that is being carried out in this Budget. I spoke at the Institute of Bankers and I have the entire script of that speech here. I took the precaution, as far back as 1951, to put relevant extracts from that and other speeches on that very matter on the records of this House. I anticipated—an anticipation which has been fully realised — that I and my colleagues would be misrepresented with regard to our policy in that respect.

Our policy has been consistent right through the years. It is a sound policy and one that is desirable and necessary for the national benefit of this country. It is one which is criticised by the Fianna Fáil Party, because, while they were in Government, they had not the sense or initiative to think it out.

I put relevant extracts from my speeches on the records of this House, in order that I would be in a position to refute these suggestions as they would be made over the years. I do not intend to read them to-day. Anybody interested can find them in Volume 126 of the Official Report from columns 2047 to 2555. I want to quote a short extract from one of them in order to make the point and refute the suggestions made principally by Deputy de Valera and Deputy Childers.

Mr. de Valera

I am interested in the suggestion I am supposed to have made.

Mentioning—this is the Chamber of Commerce speech— that we were fully alive to the importance of watching the balance of payments position and the necessity for increased production, I then said at column 2048:—

"Inflationary tendencies can, to some extent, be counteracted by direct Government measures but by far the most effective instrument is in the hands of every citizen in the State—increased voluntary savings."

Further, in an extract from the speech which I made to the Bankers' Institute, I made this statement which is quoted at column 2051:—

"A temporary disequilibrium in the balance of payments is inevitable according as repatriation of capital takes place. There are greater evils, however, than a temporary deficit in the balance of payments. This Government believe that impoverished and unnecessarily infertile land, lack of housing and shortage of hospital accommodation are far worse evils, evils which we are determined to extirpate, and which would even justify short-term economic loss for the sake of social and long-term economic gain.

It is necessary to ensure, however, that the deficit in the balance of payments is a reflection of increased capital investment at home rather than increased consumption."

Mr. de Valera

Is that not the point?

The extract continues:—

"It is also necessary that the new State investment must be in addition to and not in substitution for private investment which would have taken place anyway. Indeed, the Government would prefer if as much as possible of the new investment were undertaken by private persons because it would be more likely to be productive of a proper economic balance."

These were the principles upon which the capital Budget was based and upon which our policy of capital expenditure was framed. Those are the principles we have been operating since we became the Government again. Those are the principles enshrined in this Budget. We recognise the necessity for prudent repatriation. We recognise that any such assets that were repatriated had to be employed in productive investment in the country.

We made the distinction, of course, that there had to be some forms of capital investment which would not be directly productive of income, such as investment in telephone capital and in houses, so far as that is not directly productive. Subject to that, we made it clear that any repatriation of our external assets had to be accompanied by investment in productive schemes in this country and not by way of increasing consumption.

I spoke at the Clonmel Chamber of Commerce and there is a long extract from that speech in the Official Report. I will only refer to one part of it to-day. I quote from column 2054 of the Official Report:—

"In no sense must the capital Budget be regarded as a device to disguise with respectability a deficit in the current Budget. Any projects which fail to pass strict tests, projects which are neither productive of direct revenue nor add to the real welfare of the nation must, if they are to be undertaken at all, be charged against the current Budget and so paid for from taxation."

I quote also a statement of Deputy McGilligan, who was then Minister for Finance, which is set out at column 2055. It explains the principles which we are operating since we took office again, the principles which have been given effect to and the action which we took in the course of the past few months to correct the adverse balance of payments and which are enshrined in the Budget proposals of the Minister on this occasion. Deputy McGilligan, in an article which he wrote in the Statist, said:—

"The State investment programme rests on the principle that repatriation of sterling assets is desirable where it is clearly shown to be in the interests of domestic development. The underlying assumption is that the increased outlay of the State, in so far as room is not made for it by additional current savings, i.e., by private abstention from spending, will spill over into purchases from abroad, thus causing a realisation of sterling assets. While a moderate deficit in the balance of payments attributable to genuine realisation of external assets for domestic development is acceptable, any heavy realisation due merely to a widening of the gap between export and import values or to excessive imports of consumer goods would be cause for serious concern."

Then he went on to refer to the value of our external assets and to the necessity of maintaining at all times some substantial amount of external assets as a cushion against fluctuations in our external trade. He said:—

"The economic advantages of possessing net external resources are too substantial to enable a light view to be taken of their use merely for consumption, as distinct from productive purposes."

That was our policy in Government. When I was in Opposition, I spoke in Cork on 3rd November, 1951. At that time, the question of our policy on external assets had been under fire by the then Minister for Finance, now Deputy MacEntee. I was dealing with the question of a crisis—this mythical crisis which the Minister for Industry and Commerce admitted subsequently did not exist, but which he now talks of to-day. This is what I said in Cork:—

"While there is no crisis, I think it is proper to emphasise that I believe there are now, as there have been for years, grave problems which require solution. The balance of payments position ultimately places a limit on the extent of our own expansion. We regard the foreign assets as national assets, now alas largely depreciated, to be guarded and preserved by the nation. We deplore any improvident waste of these assets merely because they are foreign."

In 1949 I spoke of the obvious desirability of maintaining at all times a certain level of foreign investment. No impartial critic, reading dispassionately these speeches, and even the extracts from these speeches which I have given to-day, can accept for a moment the suggestions that have been made here that our policy in relation to the repatriation of external assets has been productive of anything but good for this country or that we have been in any way inconsistent in our attitude or our policy in that regard.

We have always believed that repatriation of external assets must be for production purposes, or, as I described them at the time, for human improvement purposes, such as houses and hospitals. We have always believed that repatriation of our external assets merely for consumption purposes was wrong; and we have always believed that we should maintain, even when we are carrying out a policy of repatriation of external assets for production purposes, and secure that there should be at all times a certain level of external assets, which will not be repatriated and which will act as our defence in bad times or difficult circumstances in order to enable us to maintain our independence.

Having now given these quotations to demonstrate the falsity of the suggestions that have been made on the opposite benches and to prove that our policy has been consistent and that the actions we took to correct this adverse balance in the last year were in strict accordance with those principles, I want to revert to the critical situation with which we found ourselves faced. I said that the grave matter that faced us was that, in order to finance a deficit of £35,500,000 in our adverse balance of payments, that amount of £35,000,000 had to be realised by the commercial banks out of their sterling resources. Now, taking so much money out of these resources, left the commercial banks very little power of manoeuvring in order to deal with the high level of foreign trade which the banking system has annually to finance out of its resources and which, between imports and exports, amounts to something like £400,000,000.

I have, in addition to enunciating the principles to which I have already referred, made it perfectly clear in this context of repatriation of external assets that I do not believe in the doctrine that, no matter what the cost in social dislocation and human misery, our international payments account must be put into balance. But it is a very grave matter when the entire balance of payments deficit is financed exclusively, as it was last year, out of the external resources of the banking system. In previous years the deficits were financed largely by a combination of increasing external indebtedness and importing capital, as a result of which the banking system was relieved of pressure. In post-war years these post-war deficits were financed as follows: somewhat less than one-third was financed by the realisation of gross external assets. Most of that realisation took place in the year 1955. Somewhat more than two-thirds of the deficits were financed by the inflow of foreign capital, including the Marshall Aid Loan of £41,000,000.

That is not foreign capital. That is a foreign borrowing.

In 1955, as I have said, the deficit of £35,500,000 was financed almost exclusively by the realisation of external assets and, in consequence, the nett external assets of the commercial banks fell in that year by about £35,000,000, roughly equivalent to the total loss in the preceding eight years. By way of contrast, I should mention that in 1951, when there was such a hubbub about the deficit— and the deficit that year was £61.6 million—the commercial banks own external assets fell by only £17.3 million.

May I ask a question? Would the Taoiseach tell the House precisely in what undertakings and to what extent the Marshall Aid loan was invested in this country?

Exchequer bonds that the Deputy knows perfectly well he squandered in 1951.

Mr. de Valera

The last Coalition Government were spending £1,000,000 a month——

And the Deputy drew £24,000,000 in six months.

Mr. de Valera

The Deputy spent £18,000,000 in 18 months.

Mr. de Valera

Now the facts are there and the Minister cannot get away from them.

I would be very glad to furnish the required information for which Deputy MacEntee is asking, but I think the Chair would not like it.

May I ask a question? Is it not a fact that was not a capital investment in the sense in which the Taoiseach wishes the country to understand it, but was, in fact, a money lending transaction to finance consumption?

The Deputy never heard of Columcille's prophecy: a curse on the fellow who asks a question to which he knows the answer.

I have already stated that the situation to which I have just referred and which I have outlined was one that caused grave concern to the Government. We are again, in accordance with the principles that operate in this matter, concerned of course with any adverse balance of payments, but we are not unduly concerned with the amount of that provided the purpose on which the deficit is spent is productive and useful for the development of the country. Though we are concerned with the amount, what we are really concerned with is the trend; and it was the trend that caused us to take drastic action in order to stop it by instituting the levy of the import duties in the early part of this year.

We are entitled to say that the Budget proposals introduced by the Minister for Finance show that prudent concern with balance of payments position is consistent with a high volume of domestic investment largely financed by the State. We believe, and indeed it is the principal object of the Government's economic and financial policy, that it is essential to maintain as high a level of economic activity in Ireland as the steady development of the resources of the country permit. We believe that there is little virtue in a policy of austerity for a country like Ireland with underdeveloped agriculture and underdeveloped manufacturing industry.

What we desire to achieve and why we have had to take these drastic steps is that we will be, we hope, soon or at some time, in a position to achieve a balanced account, balancing not at a low level but at a high level. We do not want our Budget or our payments account to balance merely for the purpose of balancing at a low level; we want high-level balancing in our international trade.

We believe that this country requires investment. We believe that it is underdeveloped and that, in order to maintain the standard of living of our people and to increase it, in order to provide employment to stop emigration, it is necessary that there should be economic activity and a large amount of capital investment in this country. We desire—and it is set out in our ten-point programme, the programme of policy on which the Government came together—that that investment, so far as is possible, should be done by private investment and private enterprise; but where private enterprise does not measure up to its task or fails to fulfil what we require, then the State must intervene in its capital programme in order to achieve that. It was necessary to take the drastic steps we had to take in the early spring of this year by the imposition of the import levies and by the proposals in the Budget of this year. Undoubtedly, the proposals in the present Budget are unpalatable. But they are nothing like so unpalatable as would be the consequences of uncorrected action. These measures, and such other measures as a developing situation may require, are part of the price which we have to pay for the preservation of our economic independence and of our democratic institutions. They, I think, can be said to represent the minimum necessary to maintain our standard and system of life.

The results of the capital investment in this country, whether it was done by this Government, by the last inter-Party Government or by any Fianna Fáil Government, have enriched the country, and we ought to be proud of that. We have had control of our affairs for only 30 years. We have had many frustrations and disappointments during the course of that time but anybody who lived in the period from 1910 onwards—and before that, perhaps, if we were to suppress our ages—and knew the conditions in which our people lived in the City of Dublin and throughout the country, would rejoice now at the increased standard of living that has been secured, at the housing that has been procured for our people in substitution for the slums, and at the hospitals that have helped very materially to eradicate, and which, we hope, will in time completely eradicate T.B. and other diseases. We take, or should take, pride in the increased productivity of the land under the land reclamation scheme, in our forestry programme, in our telephone projects and in our rural electrification programme. We wish to continue, not merely to supplement that, but to increase the economic activity for the benefit of our people. When we come across illnesses in the body politic, such as we have to come across, we take the necessary steps to cure it; but, being convinced that our structure is fundamentally sound, we have faith and belief that these diseases will be cured and that our economy will be strengthened after the period of our convalescence.

I do not think we should forget what has been achieved. I am not going to enter into any discussion as to whether it was this Government, the last inter-Party Government or any Fianna Fáil Government that achieved it. The country is entitled to be proud of the achievements which have been made and not to be discouraged by the difficulties which face it now and by the fact that we cannot get everything at once.

In conclusion, I will take leave to refer to what the Pope said in his Easter Message on this matter, so that our people may realise what has been achieved and appreciate what has been done and not despair because everything has not been done in the course of a short space of time. In his Easter Message, the Holy Father expressed his disapproval, to quote his own words:

"of those who see what is still lacking, what has not yet been fully achieved, and readily lend an ear to the whisperings of those sowing discontent. They close their eyes to much already accomplished in the enrichment of the social and economic order, which they, too, profit by, advantages frequently obtained through exhausting labour to overcome almost unsurmountable obstacles."

Could I appeal to the Deputies on the opposite benches and to their followers throughout the country to stop sowing discontent and to give some cooperation to the Government in difficult circumstances and difficult times?

Mr. de Valera

The Taoiseach should give that advice to his own people and they should remember their own conduct during past years.

Those of us who waited to hear proposals from the Taoiseach to deal with the difficult situation in which the nation finds itself have waited in vain. The Taoiseach has told us that we are facing a serious situation; in fact, he states that it is the most serious situation that we have faced as a nation since this State was founded. Is it not a great pity that the Taoiseach could not convince some of his own colleagues that we are, in fact, facing such a situation? And is it not, further, a great pity that the Taoiseach could not tell us here to-day what the nation should do about this situation, and that he could not give the leadership that the country would expect from him, as Taoiseach, in facing this situation? That is one of our greatest national weaknesses at the present time—that the people themselves can get no lead from those in power. They can get no help and, in fact, they cannot make up their minds as to whether there is this grave situation that the Taoiseach suggests there is, or whether there is no grave situation at all, as suggested last night by the Minister for Agriculture.

The Minister for Finance tells us that, in regard to this adverse trade balance problem, no Government could allow the position to continue. The Minister for Agriculture does not believe that at all, because he has assured us that we still have £450,000,000 in external assets and that there has not, in fact, been any diminution in our external assets. If that is so, what is all the fuss about? If that is so, why have we all these new taxes imposed on our people? If what the Minister for Agriculture believes to be true is the fact, why has the Minister for Finance to bring in this second Budget, which the Taoiseach now admits contains very unpalatable proposals? How can we ask the nation to realise that we are facing this grave financial situation if this is the attitude of the members of the Cabinet itself?

Deputy O'Donovan, the Parliamentary Secretary to the Government, also shares the view of Deputy Dillon and has expressed publicly the view that this matter is all grossly exaggerated, that there is not in fact the situation that it is being suggested exists. The Minister for Agriculture was assuring us yesterday from the Front Benches that he does not believe there was a diminution in our external assets, that we still have £450,000,000 there. If that is so, there is no necessity whatsoever for these proposals of the Minister for Finance nor was there any necessity for the 68 taxes he imposed during the last few months. We are simply fooling the nation if Deputy Dillon is right because if we have £450,000,000 there we can continue on this merry spree spending at the rate of £35,000,000 a year for the next 13 or 14 years.

Why should we ask our people to submit to what the Taoiseach pronounces as unpalatable proposals in circumstances of that kind? If our external assets are not being frittered away at a dangerous rate, why should the Minister be asking the people to accept these unpalatable proposals? We in this House are still in the position that we cannot judge from the divided counsels in the Cabinet, as expressed publicly by them, as to whether we are in fact facing this extremely grave situation. The Taoiseach says it is the gravest situation that has ever existed in this State. Deputy Dillon, the Minister for Agriculture, does not believe there is any such grave situation at all.

Do not misrepresent the Minister for Agriculture.

I want to know whether the Minister for Agriculture is misrepresenting the Minister for Finance and the Taoiseach because, whereas the Minister for Finance in his Budget statement says that our agricultural production is down over all by 2 per cent., the Minister for Agriculture says he does not believe that is so. Who is correct and who is misrepresenting whom, or who is codding whom? That is what the people want to know.

The Deputy should make a real effort to understand what he is talking about. Then he would learn that one figure was net and the other was gross.

I am endeavouring to find out who is misrepresenting whom.

Both are correct.

If the Minister's statement in his Budget speech is correct, Deputy Dillon, the Minister for Agriculture, is talking through his hat.

No, both are right.

It may be one of the usual performances of the Minister for Agriculture but if our people are to accept that there is a dangerous financial situation and that stern measures must be taken by the nation to meet that situation, then it is the duty of the Taoiseach and the Minister for Finance to inform the Minister for Agriculture of this dangerous situation. How can the Taoiseach or the Minister for Finance expect our people to face these unpalatable proposals, again to use the Taoiseach's words, if what the Minister for Agriculture states is true?

One thing is clear that the underwriting of subscriptions for the last loan flop of £5,000,000 in respect of National Savings Bonds was financed by sales of external securities from Department funds. I would like the Minister to tell us when he is replying what that cost us. He has given no indication of that in his statement so far. But in his economic survey on page 8 of the Budget statement he makes it clear that:—

"The increase of £30,000,000 in the deficit as compared with 1954 was the result of a substantial rise in imports, accompanied by a decline in exports, with scarcely any change in net invisible receipts. It was not until the second half of the year that the gap widened ..."

Whether he expects anybody to believe that or not I do not know because this trend has been developing for such a long time that there was not, and has not been, one in the country that did not realise that that trend was there, except evidently the members of the present Government.

At page 9 of the Budget statement the Minister says:—

"The loss of external assets by the commercial banks in 1955 was roughly equivalent to their total loss during the eight preceding years. The rate of loss of external resources represented by a balance of payments deficit of £35,500,000 could not be allowed to continue without risk of undermining our economic independence and our prospect of a sustained improvement in living standards."

What plan has the Government to meet this situation? What overall plan has the Government from the point of view of increasing our exports to deal with this grave problem, a problem that may, in the Minister's words, undermine "our whole economic independence and our prospect of a sustained improvement in living standards?" Would not one expect that, in a situation of this kind, which now evidently is recognised at least by the Taoiseach as being a national situation that must be faced by all our people, we would have an overall plan from the Government pointing out to us and to the nation how we are to meet the situation, how we are to increase our production and to deal with this continued frittering away of our external assets?

There has been no plan and no suggestion in this regard. I never listened to a speech of the Taoiseach that was more packed with platitudes than the one he has delivered in this House to-day. The nation is being handed platitudes instead of plans. We are being told about the sickness of the patient but we have not been given the cure. Does the Minister suggest that a tax on petrol will help the situation externally? Does the Minister suggest that the tax on petrol is anything but a revenue-raising tax? Does the Minister and the Government not realise that a tax on petrol in these days amounts to a tax on production because it is a tax on industry? Is it not quite clear that that will not remedy our adverse trade balance, that the petrol must come in if business is to continue here? Anybody dealing with business in this country knows that a tax on petrol is an overhead of industry that must be and will be passed on to the producer.

One of the greatest problems of agriculture here is that we are 100 years behind the times in certain respects. One of our great national problems is the cost of getting our products to the ports for export and when Deputies know the costings of some of our main competitors on the British market, particularly the Argentine, who can land commodities in London just as cheaply as we can from here, they will realise what transport is costing our main industry which is agriculture.

Is there any encouragement in the proposals of the Minister to help our agriculturists to increase their output? Is there any encouragement being given to increase our agricultural production which, it is agreed, is down by 2 per cent.? If we take the overall plan of the Coalition Government to meet this grave financial crisis, that plan can be summarised in a very few words—their solution is Labour's plan for a tax of £2 an acre on land, Deputy Rooney's plan for a dual-purpose hen and the plan of the Minister for Agriculture for white turkeys. In this dangerous national financial crisis, these are the only solutions they have to offer and they ask the nation to depend upon them in this grave crisis, the gravest the nation has ever had to face.

Is it not too much for the Government to expect that, with that attitude, the nation is prepared to accept the taxes that have now been imposed? I would agree with the Minister that, if our people realised the seriousness of the situation, there are many sacrifices they would face but, with the divided counsels and the divided advice being given, it is very difficult to expect the ordinary man in the street to make sacrifices, if sacrifices are necessary.

The Taoiseach told us that he does not believe in a policy of austerity but he has given us a policy of austerity in this Budget. I will not worry the Minister by going over all the quotations of the cruel and unjust Budget of a few years ago brought in by Deputy MacEntee when he was Minister for Finance but, if that Budget was cruel and unjust, I wonder what must the man in the street think of this Budget which continues, not only the taxation then imposed, but the additional taxes on petrol and cigarettes.

Even the small gaming man in Bray now finds that he will have to pay through the nose for the Bill introduced in this House a short time ago. The effect of that, as Deputy Lemass has said here, is to introduce a tax that means little or nothing except that these poor, small, little men will be expected to find £40 a year. That is going to put the small man out of business but the big businesses will be able to carry on. I hope that when the Minister for Justice goes back to Bray his bodyguards will be very careful of him considering the promises he had made to his constituents there. This is another of the small taxes which the Minister has thought fit to impose and which will produce little or nothing but which have shown his complete disregard of what the effect of its imposition will be on the small man who has to pay.

The Taoiseach, before he finished, made a rather significant statement when he said: "The State must intervene if private enterprise and industry fail." I am inclined to take these words with the rather significant speech made by the Taoiseach's son, Deputy Declan Costello, yesterday evening. Deputy Declan Costello stated here in the House yesterday evening, and it is rather significant in his speech on the Budget, that the key to the economic development of the country lay with the commercial banks, and with the rate of interest, and that he thought that we must bring our banking system into line with other countries and that the Central Bank system must be amended. There we have Deputy Declan Costello prepared to take over, not alone the Central Bank, but to bring in also the commercial banks. The Taoiseach has told us to-day, following that speech of Deputy Declan Costello, that the State must intervene if private enterprise failed. Was the Taoiseach referring to the commercial banks? Was the Taoiseach referring to the Central Bank and is this the first step in the present Government's policy to get access to the people's money in the commercial banks?

Some years ago my colleague, Deputy MacEntee, put out an election address stating: "It is your money they are after."

Notice taken that 20 Deputies were not present; House counted, and 20 Deputies being present,

As I was saying, some years ago Deputy MacEntee issued a circular informing the public: "It is your money they are after." How right he appears to have been. Now we have the first shot being fired by Deputy Declan Costello when he tells us that we must have legislation to amend the Central Bank Act and that the banks, commercial and central, must be put in a position to serve the purposes of the Coalition Government. That doctrine has been preached for quite a while by Deputy MacBride. It is preached now by the Taoiseach's son, Deputy Declan Costello, and the Taoiseach himself to-day told us that the State must intervene if private enterprise fails. It is quite clear that it is the people's money the Government are after and no doubt, in due course, we will get the proof of that.

The Minister or the Taoiseach has not told the House where the money is to come from to finance capital expenditure. Pious hopes have been expressed that the people will save. The people are expected to save against the trend that has been apparent, notwithstanding the fact that the Minister for Finance knows and that the Taoiseach knows that everything tends the other way. We are told that the £37,000,000 needed for capital expenditure is expected to come from savings. It is either that or there is not going to be capital expenditure.

I think it is quite clear that Deputy Declan Costello has let the cat out of the bag and that some financing will be done now by a raid on the commercial banks, through an amendment of the Central Bank Act. It is from that that some of this money is going to come. I wonder would it be correct to say that Deputy Declan Costello was sent ahead of Deputy MacBride through the financial minefield last night to try and prepare the country for this proposed raid on the commercial banks.

The raiding is all finished.

We are told by the Taoiseach that this Budget has got a favourable reception throughout the country. He admitted that there were unpalatable proposals. I do not know where the Budget has got a favourable reception. I do not know whom the Taoiseach is trying to fool. I do not believe he expects us to accept the suggestion that the penal taxes imposed in this Budget will be popular with anybody. Whatever may be said about the taxes, it is clear that two of them, those on petrol and on postal services, will be crippling overheads on many industries throughout the country. I want to point out that if that aspect of the Budget is not examined by the Minister, instead of doing something to right our external assets position, he will find that we will be priced out of world markets, particularly where our agricultural production is concerned.

If there is any hope of correcting our external assets position, it is through agricultural production. If there is any hope in increasing our exports of agricultural produce our costings here must be carefully examined. If we have to sell in a very competitive market it is absurd for the Minister to think that without a reduction in overheads we will be able to do so. I had hoped that, in these admittedly difficult times, some plan would be announced by the Minister for Agriculture during this debate for a quick increase in agricultural output. I had hoped he would announce some plan in relation to a branch of our agricultural production that could be restored quickly in order to right the wrong trend in our external balance of trade.

One aspect of our agricultural production that could be dealt with, with this object in view, would be pig production. That could be restored very quickly. At the moment, as in every other branch of agriculture, we are in the doldrums as far as pig production is concerned. At the moment we are down to 600,000 pigs. By a proper policy and proper lead we could increase that production and our exports in that field very substantially.

That is one branch of agriculture on which we might concentrate with a view to achieving increased exports. It will not be done, though, by such things as happened last week when Grain Importers raised the price of feed by a further £1 a ton. Is it not quite clear to the Minister and to the Government that pig production in this country, as in every other country, is related to the price of the feed? Must it not be quite clear to the Minister and the Government that, unless we are able to buy feed here at the same price as our competitors in Denmark and Holland, we will not be able to compete with them in the export market? Is it not quite clear to the Minister for Agriculture that if our costings on pig production do not enable us to get feed at the £22 a ton our competitors pay for it, we will not be able to compete with them on the British market? Unless these things are examined is it not useless to talk about our adverse trade balance?

There is an absence of an overall plan to increase our production and accordingly our exports. We are assured by the Taoiseach that we are facing one of the gravest situations in our economic history. The only solution the Coalition groups would seem to have is the Labour Party's proposed £2 tax an acre on land, Deputy Rooney's dual purpose hen or the white turkey of the Minister for Agriculture. We are asked to rise to policies of that kind in these grave times. When the Taoiseach assured us that we were living in this critical situation and that we are suffering from this economic illness which the Government have diagnosed, he unfortunately did not prescribe the cure. We say that the Taoiseach and the Minister for Finance have failed to provide the cure and that they have not the medicine for the economically sick nation to which the Taoiseach referred in the House to-day. The Taoiseach has assured the nation that the economic physicians are baffled. He should have added that the Government are also baffled, and I am afraid I must conclude by saying that, in view of the statement of the Minister for Finance, to call in the doctor is of little use. I think the Government should send for the priest or make way for a new Government.

A feature of this Budget is that the taxes imposed by the Minister for Finance do not affect the ordinary standard of living of the people. That fact, I think, calls for special commendation. The Minister is to be congratulated on it. The most notable feature, and the one that commands the greatest interest, is that the food subsidies are being maintained. As the Minister himself has said, he is taxing expenditure rather than income. Accordingly, an unnecessarily high volume of imports of nonessential goods will be restricted and there will be a great stimulus and encouragement given to personal savings.

Most people cannot quibble with such an approach to our budgetary problems. The money needed for administration and for the capital development of the country must be found somewhere. The Minister has been criticised for imposing new taxes, but while such an unfortunate evil is to be regretted, it is better to see extra taxation put on non-essentials than to see the price of essential foodstuffs increased. There are always two sides to every Budget—the popular and the unpopular—and this year the chief targets for taxing are tobacco and petrol. Any kind of tax is, of course, a deterrent to enterprise and progress and is to be condemned initially. However, taxation is a necessary evil, and, if it must be imposed, it is better to see taxes put on petrol and tobacco than on the essentials of life.

Undoubtedly these fresh imposts will create hardships in certain cases, but, taking the overall picture, I think the position could be much worse. Further taxes imposed in this Budget relate to matches, mineral waters, gambling and dancing, and, while many people derive employment from the manufacture or the operation of these things, I do not think the slightly heavier burden they are asked to carry through them will adversely affect them to any great degree. I think the Minister will not be censured for choosing these items for extra taxation. They are all non-essentials.

There is, however, one aspect of the dancing tax to which I should like to refer. It is in relation to the rural dance-halls. I would ask the Minister to reconsider this matter. in so far as it affects those halls. Under the proposals, it is intended to exempt rural halls which are situated three miles or more from a town. There are some rural halls which are situated just inside the three-mile limit. They will be expected to pay the full tax applicable to the towns. Very often, we find that the boundaries of towns stretch out very far into the rural districts contiguous to them, so that some halls would be situated within two miles of the boundaries. Because these halls are not outside the three-mile limit, they will now bear the full brunt of the tax, although they may be four or five miles from the more thickly populated parts of the towns concerned.

Many rural halls will not survive, if they are to pay this tax. They will be unable to compete with the bigger dance-halls in the towns near which they are situated. I would therefore ask the Minister to amend his proposals in this regard, so that a smaller tax, if any tax at all, would be accepted from these dance-halls. It does seem to be an anomalous situation when we find that it is necessary for a dance-hall which is only two and three-quarter miles from a town to pay the tax and that a hall a quarter of a mile farther away is exempted.

It is encouraging to observe that the Minister intends to reduce the rising cost of Government administration and that, as an earnest of that intention, he means to set up a committee which will examine ways and means whereby economies may be effected, while avoiding large scale redundancies. There has been some criticism of the personnel of this proposed committee. Some people say that civil servants are the last people who would be expected to recommend reductions of the kind conceived and that representatives of manufacturing interests and chambers of commerce should be put on this committee. Be that as it may, it is a good thing to see that the Minister has high hopes of success and that certain economies can be achieved in the various Departments. I hope, if he does achieve economies, the Opposition will be the first to congratulate him.

I must congratulate him on transferring from the Road Fund moneys which will be used for capital development purposes. It is a pity he did not slice off a larger amount from that fund, because there is far too much money being spent on maintaining and improving main roads at the expense of county roads. However, that is a step in the right direction which will meet with the approval of all Parties in the House.

In conclusion, I want to say that the benefits flowing from this Budget will meet with the approval of most people. In my opinion, the Minister has done his best to help those people who need help most. He has given reliefs to industry, to local government pensioners, to members of the Defence Forces; he has increased the unemployment benefits and the sickness benefits; and he has given increased pensions to widows and orphans in the contributory class. They are not small benefits and they are an earnest, as I have said, of the Minister's desire to help those who most need it.

I should like to say that, in these days of rising costs all over the world, it is impossible for this small country to escape the adverse effects of rising costs, and, as has been often pointed out by the Minister, the only sure way of remedying the adverse effects on our economy is by increasing production and personal savings. I mention this to impress the fact on those concerned that increased production is necessary not only in the large industrial undertakings and on the larger farms, but is equally necessary on the smallest farm in the country and in the smallest organisation.

Listening to speakers such as the last one from the different Parties forming the Government, one would come to the conclusion that they must have spent the week-end being hatched under the wing of the Minister for Finance and that they must not have travelled through the country. I have met over the week-end, throughout the country, a lot of people who have supported the Government and I certainly can say that not from one of those people have I heard anything but criticism. Every one of them expressed grave disappointment not merely with the taxes imposed in this Budget but with the Government's attitude in bringing in such a Budget. They had been led to believe by the speeches they had heard over the past few years that not merely would the Government not bring in any new taxes, but that there would be a general reduction. They expected that at least the cost of living would be brought down in one direction or another. It is because it was not that they are mostly disappointed.

We have heard Deputies say that they are delighted that the Minister has brought in such a fine Budget and that the only taxes he imposed are taxes on luxuries. We had to listen, year in and year out, to criticism of the 1952 Budget and we just wonder how it is that something is a luxury to-day that was not a luxury then. The poor man's tobacco was not proclaimed a luxury in those days, nor in the Government's election campaign.

Hackney drivers have been referred to here as people who should get a special concession in respect of the tax on petrol. I am in entire agreement with that. I should like Deputies supporting the Government to visit the various factories throughout the country, where they will find a number of motor cars used by workers travelling long distances to their work. Are those cars regarded as luxuries?

Many people do not yet enjoy the benefits of the rural electrification scheme and have to use paraffin oil to a very large extent for cooking, heating and lighting. They suffer as a result of the tax on paraffin oil. At the same time, we have allowed ourselves to drift and have encouraged the people to drift by the wild speeches that were made, not for the improvement of the people, not by way of an indication of sound policy, but purely for political tactics.

It is no harm to refer to some of the things we have been listening to from Ministers from time to time. We all remember the Minister for Agriculture, at a time when dollars were flowing in pretty freely and when the Government felt that there was no necessity to think about the repayment of those dollars and thought they could not spend them fast enough, telling us that the happiest hours of his life were one afternoon that he went out and spent 5,000,000 of those dollars on purchasing wheat.

It was fertilisers.

On purchasing wheat.

No, fertilisers.

I beg your pardon. Read Volume 129, column 2219 of the Dáil Debates and you will find out.

What does it say?

"I spent $5,000,000 on wheat one afternoon." That is exactly what he says.

The Parliamentary Secretary was crazy enough to ask.

Not a bad afternoon's work.

That is a clear indication of the mad gallop taken by this Government when they were in office before. One of the things that led us into the very unhappy position, when we had to take up office, of having to clear up the mess that they created was the mad gallop in regard to expenditure, without any check. We had to face up to a very unpopular job of work. We had to clean up that mess. The Minister for Finance to-day can congratulate us on the Budget of 1952, because, if we had not taken the steps then that we did take, where would he to-day find the money for those subsidies? If he had to face the problem of finding something additional to tax in order to find the money for subsidies, there would be more grey hairs on his head before he would finish. No one can have any doubt about that.

When it is claimed that people who pay national health insurance will get certain benefits, it must be remembered that they will have to pay for them. It is not merely the 5d. that will be put on national health insurance that they will have to pay, but they also will have to pay 5d. on 20 cigarettes, ½d. on a box of matches and an increase in postal stamps, an increase in telegrams and an increase in telephone charges. All these increases have to come in yet.

Not on stamps. I think the Minister made it plain.

Perhaps not on stamps, but the Minister for Posts and Telegraphs is being called upon to find a certain sum of money and that will come from the poorer sections, as well as from other sections.

It is to balance his own Department.

When heard the Minister's statement last year, we began to think that these people had come to their senses, had faced up to their responsibility and had at last come down to earth. In last year's Budget statement, the Minister said:—

"The economic picture for 1954 is on the whole, satisfactory. In all the main branches of the economy progress was made. The external trade returns showed further improvement."

There was a very different picture painted by that same Minister a few weeks ago. The picture that he painted for the year 1954 had changed colours altogether in 1955. That brings one to the question, why was the picture so rosy in 1954? Was it not because of the fact that there was a Fianna Fáil Government in office prior to that, who had cleaned up the mess, who had gone to the extreme limits of straightening out our finances—perhaps in a very unpopular manner—and had left us in a solid, sound, financial position? Is that not really why the Minister was so happy about the position in which he found himself in 1954?

After a further year, instead of being able to continue and improve on that position, the Minister came a few weeks ago and imposed additional tariffs on certain commodities being imported, and he had an entirely different picture to paint. We were told that the balance of payments was upset. I do not propose to go into the question of the balance of payments now, but the Minister imposed certain duties on what he called "luxuries". One of the "luxuries" is the bicycle. Deputy O'Leary and some of the Labour Party sitting on the Government side of the House said the Minister was perfectly right in his view that a bicycle is a luxury. To Deputy O'Leary and others perhaps a bicycle is a luxury to-day, but I think there was a time when they would agree that it was not a luxury, but a necessity.

There is no tax on bicycles that I am aware of.

25 per cent. was put on them a fortnight ago.

Deputy O'Leary says a bicycle is a luxury.

I come now to electrical equipment. So far as rural electrification is concerned, the housewife was advised to get her husband to have the house wired immediately and to be prepared for lighter work when she would have her electric kettle, her electric iron and her electric washing-machine. Just as most of these people were about to have a supply of electricity connected to their houses and just as they were about to purchase an electric kettle, an electric iron, and an electric washing-machine, another 25 per cent. was clapped on those commodities and the housewife was then told they are luxuries.

Let us now examine the present position of the farmers. The Parties supporting this Government feel that the farmer was never as wealthy or as prosperous as he is to-day. The Leader of a Party which is supposed to represent the farmers told us in a speech which was reported in the Mayo News on 5th May, 1954, that Fianna Fáil thought the farmers were rolling in wealth. If Fianna Fáil thought wrong and if the farmers were not rolling in wealth at that time, surely to heavens when this Government took £1,700,000 off them, as a result of a cut of 12/6 a barrel in wheat, that did not help to make them any more prosperous. Surely when this Government reduced the price of barley, it did not make the farmers any more prosperous. Surely when the farmers found themselves in a market where oats were never cheaper, it did not help to make them more prosperous. Surely when they find themselves in a market where cattle prices have dropped, and dropped considerably, in spite of all the efforts of the Minister for Agriculture to convince us to the contrary— in spite of all his efforts to try to say the Irish Press was responsible for it —it has not helped to make the farmers more prosperous. Every sensible Deputy from rural Ireland must realise that the price of cattle and of live stock in general has dropped considerably.

"The bottom has fallen out of the market."

Deputy Donnellan always interrupts me.

The Parliamentary Secretary.

The Parliamentary Secretary. I saw him a couple of months ago driving a few cattle down to the fair at Tuam.

I hope he got a good price.

I did. I got £52 10s. I suppose Deputy Killilea never drove cattle to a fair.

This has no relevance to the matter before the House.

I have driven cattle to the fair at Tuam as often as the Parliamentary Secretary has

If you want it, you will get it.

The Parliamentary Secretary cannot boast about his agriculture at all. There was a time——

I never cadged on it.

You are a liar.

The Parliamentary Secretary must withdraw the expression "liar".

I will withdraw the word "liar", but the statement is untrue. If he wants it, let him have it.

I notice that, whenever I express the feelings of the people I am sent here to represent, the Parliamentary Secretary gets very excited.

Look at all I represent compared with you—three to one.

The day is coming when you will not have that to say. There is one thing you cannot say, and that is that you have represented those people for half as long as I have.

Imagination. You got in the back door the last time. You did not even reach the quota.

Deputy Killilea will now come to the business before the House.

Efforts have always been made to prevent Deputies from showing up the Government in which that man over there happens to be a Parliamentary Secretary. Before I was interrupted, I was dealing with the price of cattle. Can anyone deny that the price of sheep has been reduced and can any sensible person who knows anything at all about the farming community say in this House that any one commodity put on the market to-day by the farmer is yielding the same price as he got for it when Fianna Fáil were in office?

He is not getting 5/- for his calf.

Reference was made to the speech in which Deputy McGilligan said that any sane and sensible Government and any sane Minister for Finance could reduce taxation overnight—as he hoped they would—by £10,000,000. The Taoiseach told us that that was just the opinion of one individual. I wonder if that is so. There is nothing to indicate that it was not a clearly discussed policy between the Parties. Deputy McGilligan was not the only man who said taxation could be reduced overnight. Another Deputy declared that taxation could be reduced by £1,000,000 a minute in the first ten minutes of a speech in the Dáil. I am sure it was not inspiration that made that Deputy think that taxation could be reduced by £10,000,000 in the first ten minutes they were in office.

What efforts have been made by this Government to reduce taxation by even £1,000,000, not to speak of the £10,000,000 by which they said they could reduce it? Everybody knows that since this Government went back into office the cost of living has gone up day after day. We have seen what has happened in the case of tea. The present Parties composing the Government said that they would reduce the price below the 5/- to which it went when Fianna Fáil was in office but to-day we find that the price of tea is not 2/4 or 5/- but 8/- or 9/- a lb. and even higher if one is prepared to pay for it. Every single item that is necessary for the household has gone up since the Government went back into office. We find that the price of cocoa and coffee has increased considerably. There is not much talk now about the poor man's pint which has also gone up. We do not find anybody weeping about that fact now on the Government Benches. All those increases in prices have been brought about by a Government who had promised to eliminate extravagance and to bring about a reduction in the cost of living.

Even the bookmakers prices have been put up.

What about butter?

We must give credit for butter but the reduction in that regard was made up for by the cost of tea which has been brought about by the blundering method with which the Government handled the tea situation.

I would not say too much about the price of tea, in case you might have to eat your words.

Nobody will have to eat his words. It was this Government's handling of the tea situation which has brought about the increased costs. The price would not have been as high were it not for the fact that the people are now paying, not merely for the cost of the tea but for the interest on the money advanced when the Government blundered early in that matter.

It does not cost £1 per lb. on the black market now.

We have heard a lot of talk about subsidies but if we had not taken the action we did in regard to subsidies I would like to know where the present Minister for Finance would find himself to-day in the matter of money. The Minister for Finance and the Government have had ample opportunity to restore the subsidies but they have failed to do so. There was at one time a lot of talk on all platforms throughout the country about the restoration of the subsidies and the Labour Party were most vociferous in that regard. The Government could have brought in proposals either in the Budget or by Supplementary Estimate to restore the subsidies but they have not done so.

The butter was not too bad.

I often heard it said that you can choke a cat with too much butter.

Are you suggesting that the people are now getting too much butter?

Deputy Collins may twist my words whatever way he likes. It would be hard for him to use them straight anyway. If we take the Minister's statement and examine it closely we find that not alone does this Budget increase the prices of tobacco and cigarettes but it contains increases additional to those imposed in the Budget of 1952. That Budget was very much criticised but we find in this Budget that the poor man's pint has been increased by the levies which had been put on by the Minister for Finance this year. If Deputies supporting the Government are of the opinion that the poor man's pint should not be increased, they have an opportunity of doing something about it because it is included in this Budget.

Is it increased in this Budget?

I say these duties are included in this Budget to-day.

Which duties?

It would be well worth while for some of the Deputies opposite to take this speech of the Minister for Finance and read it through carefully. It is all very well to go to the cross-roads and the church gates and make lovely speeches, but the people want more than lovely speeches. You will not get away with lovely speeches all the time. The people demonstrated their views in the recent by-election. Deputies opposite should take a little notice of what has happened in the by-elections.

Leix-Offaly.

North Kerry.

West Limerick.

North Galway.

North-East Dublin.

You surely cannot claim credit for that.

These exchanges must cease and Deputy Killilea must be allowed to continue.

In Leix-Offaly the farming community have given their answer to the Minister for Finance and have told him that they do not want any more codology; they want results. We have listened to-day to the speech of the Taoiseach——

Were you here then?

Deputy Killilea is in possession and must be allowed to make his speech.

One would imagine from the speech of the Taoiseach that he had examined the whole position most carefully, but we find that that is not so. His speech was merely of the type which the Minister for Agriculture makes so glibly from time to time.

Progress reported; Committee to sit again.
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