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Dáil Éireann debate -
Thursday, 29 Nov 1956

Vol. 160 No. 12

Adjournment Debate—House Building Industry.

At Question Time to-day, I asked the Minister for Local Government what decisions had been reached by the Government with a view to alleviating the chaotic condition of the house building industry, and if he would give particulars of such decisions. In his reply, the Minister once again suggested, and in fact stated, he did not agree that chaotic conditions existed in the industry. I tried to point out to him that, on the last date available in 1956, there were 6,543 building operatives unemployed as compared with 5,037 in the same period in 1954. According to the latest available figures which I can get, on 1st October, 1953, there were 7,146 houses under construction. On 1st September, 1956, there were 6,200 local authority houses under construction. In 1953, 8,065 men were employed in the period and on 1st September, 1956, the figure was 5,895, and there are considerably fewer since.

The building industry is the most important industry after agriculture. It is agreed by all Parties and members of local authorities that things are in a sorry plight. From answers to questions I put down in this House, one fact becomes obvious, namely, that for some obscure reason the plans of houses and the approval of housing schemes are being held up by the Minister for Local Government. It is criminal and the height of folly for the Minister to suggest, not only in this House but at Fine Gael meetings, particularly in Dublin, that there is no scarcity of money for housing.

As I have said, according to the unemployment register, there is a reduction of over 2,000 persons employed in the building industry. You could add to that another 3,000 persons who have gone over to England to try to earn their livelihood. In many cases, these are men who will be lost to this country for a long time.

When the Minister introduced the Housing (Amendment) Bill, he also introduced the infamous guarantee scheme. What is the position with regard to that scheme? The loans were to be confined to people of modest means whom the Minister did not define. He left that to the local authority. The local authority was asked to adopt a guarantee scheme for people outside that category. What happened? I am glad Deputy Donegan is sitting behind the Minister. He wrote a letter to the Irish Independent on 26th October last in which he stated that the Government guarantee scheme——

Surely the Minister is not responsible for what Deputy Donegan writes?

He dealt with the guarantee scheme and complained that 13 individuals in Drogheda had pointed out to him that they could not avail of the guarantee scheme because it was not operated. That is a typical example of the failure of the scheme. According to an answer given by the Minister in this House, the scheme was adopted by 26 local authorities. One building society is operating that scheme and then only in the County Boroughs of Dublin, Cork, Waterford and Galway. What chance have people outside the categories mentioned by Deputy Donegan, both in Drogheda and in other areas, where the guarantee scheme is not operative and where it is inoperable?

Fianna Fáil saw to it that that scheme would not be adopted in Louth on three local authorities. It was a deliberate political move.

I might as well tell Deputy Donegan that, even if it were adopted, it could not be worked because the building societies will not give loans outside the county boroughs I have mentioned.

You made sure it would not work in County Louth.

I replied to Deputy Donegan's letter in the Irish Independent but, as usual, they did not publish my reply.

Are we debating the question of the letter or the reply given by me to-day to the Deputy?

The time has come when there will have to be a proper show-down in respect of the tragic history of housing in this country. According to figures supplied by the Minister, there has been a cutting-down in relation to the housing of the working classes. In 1952-53, £2,658,000 was issued to local authorities from the Local Loans Fund for that purpose. The figure in respect of 1955-56 is £1,334,000. In 1952-53, the amount allocated for labourers' cottages was £3,087,000. In 1955-56, the figure was £1,894,000.

I turn now to the Small Dwellings (Acquisition) Acts. In 1952-53, the amount of money for that purpose was £3,041,000. In 1955-56, the amount was £2,874,000.

That figure for 1955-56 included Dublin and Cork Corporations who hitherto had not access to the Local Loans Fund.

The people are sick and tired of being told by the Minister and Government members of local authorities that there is ample money available for housing. If the Minister said to members of local authorities and to the people of the country: "There is all you are getting; do the best you can with that," we would have to cut our cloth according to our measure. We would have to ration the money he was giving us. If he would say how much money we would get in a specified period, we would know how we would stand.

There are housing schemes in Limerick actually completed and the money has not been paid. If it had not been for the banks, I do not know how we would have carried on. We are up to the limit of our borrowing capacity and we can borrow no further. Unless the Minister deals not only with Limerick but with every case throughout the country, I think the industry is completely finished.

That is not necessarily my view on the matter. There are people who possibly have a lot more knowledge than I have who have dealt with these matters. The views of the joint negotiating committee of the building industry are interesting. They refer to a reply given by the Taoiseach to me in this House, in a letter of the 5th of this month to the Irish Independent and they said—and this is very far-reaching and I think you will agree it throws light on the position:—

"As the statement of An Taoiseach would appear to infer that representations have not been made by the building trade unions, we are obliged to point out that in anticipation of the situation then developing, representations were made some months back, by the joint negotiating committee, to An Taoiseach and assurances were then given which have not materialised. Since then a worsening of the employment situation has necessitated representation being made to An Tánaiste and Mr. Sweetman, Minister for Finance, the meeting taking place on September 25. The deputation was assured that their representations would receive the serious consideration of the Cabinet, and at the conclusion of the meeting an assurance was given that the joint negotiating committee would be informed of the outcome of the Cabinet discussions.

"As we did not receive a reply as promised by October 9, a further letter was sent on that day, expressing our surprise and regret. We concluded our letter by stating that we were obliged to report to our people and having informed them of the undertaking, we had to ask for an early reply indicating what steps the Cabinet had decided upon in relation to the employment of our people through the various Government Departments.

"The only response has been a formal acknowledgement of our communication from the secretary of the Minister for Industry and Commerce.

"The joint negotiating committee is, therefore, obliged to make public this serious omission, as the statement made by An Taoiseach is misleading and completely overlooks the non-fulfilment of the undertakings referred to."

Then we have one of the most prominent members of the union directly concerned with the building industry saying to the Government that, unless they took steps, and immediate steps, the building industry was finished. We had the president of the Royal Institute of Architects—I think the Minister was present with the Taoiseach at their dinner—pointing out to the Minister the serious effects of the Government's policy on the building industry.

When I originally put down this question, I addressed it to the Taoiseach, for the Minister is concerned only with the housing of the people. For some reason, it was switched to the Minister for Local Government. I wished to deal with the building of schools and the building of other things, but I cannot now refer to them on this matter when I am speaking on a question to the Minister for Local Government. As I say, the main complaint that members of local authorities have, and the main complaint of people in the building trade, is that they are completely in the dark as to what the present position is and what the future holds. Let us not go into the reasons as to why sufficient money is not available; we can do that some other time. Let us accept the fact that there is only £x available for housing. Has the time not come for the Minister, before we break up for Christmas, to write to every local authority telling them exactly when their plans will be approved and when they can proceed with the work?

Surely the present position is not fair to the workers in the building industry? I am sure that the Minister does not like to see this emigration of skilled tradesmen, and of building labourers who are now leaving every week in hundreds. As a member of a local authority, I say that it is pitiful and the Minister must know it when he gets back to Donegal and people in the building industry say to him: "Is there any chance of a job to tide us over Christmas and then we will go to England?"

It is a fantastic situation and one which cannot continue much longer. It is a matter which is completely above political gain for any side of this House. As far as I am concerned, it is too serious to cloud the issue any more, too serious for the Minister to taunt the Lord Mayor of Dublin, Deputy Briscoe, about it. The livelihood of people is vitally concerned in this issue. The Minister asked me to give any specific cases on ordinary houses and cottages alone. As far back as last May, there were nearly 2,000 such houses awaiting sanction from the Minister's Department.

Various reasons have been given here for that—Clare County Council: 189 cottages; applied 16th August—"under consideration". The building industry in Clare, like everywhere else, is in a very serious plight. The figures which I have read out showing that there were 2,500 more unemployed now than last year simply indicate those who are drawing unemployment benefit. Just as many more have emigrated. Kildare County Council: 816 cottages; applied 19th December, 1955 —"further information required". Wexford County Council: 100 cottages, applied 2nd March, 1956—"further information required". What is the stock answer? "Under consideration", "Further information required", and the six other cases going back to the early part of this year.

Then we have the supplementary grants. There is nearly £200,000 lying in the Minister's Department. It makes one so sick to think that the Government will not face up to the issue and certainly even at this late stage I would have the greatest admiration for the Minister if he would agree to the suggestion that I have put. All that we want is for him to tell us the truth. We have not got the truth and I do not mean by that that the Minister has been telling us falsehoods, but the position has been shown in a false light and it is about time that a true statement on the housing position was given.

Deputy Major de Valera rose.

The Deputy has only one minute.

Major de Valera

With regard to Dublin, it has been alleged that the reduction in the content of unemployment in Dublin and the reduction in the building programme here is in no small part attributable to delays in furnishing approval for plans submitted. This has been stated so persistently that I think the Minister should avail of this opportunity to clarify the position. A Deputy who supports the Minister in this House and who is in a position to speak as a member of a local authority and a former Lord Mayor, Deputy Denis Larkin, specifically made that charge against the Minister's Department only yesterday. He said that the reduction in employment on corporation housing schemes is due to the failure of the Department of Local Government to approve plans of the corporation and that they lie in the Department for months. That is his statement. I think it is certainly the impression that is abroad that there has been a substantial failure in this situation.

As Deputy O'Malley said, a vital point here—and perhaps we should make it the net point in this argument —is: can we know where we stand? A person will at least listen to the Minister if he says: "We have no money; there is a shortage of money." That is an understandable approach, but, on the one hand, we are told that funds are apparently available ad lib— because that is the only construction I can put on certain ministerial statements—while, on the other hand, every local authority in the country is complaining of the shortage of facilities and of delays in sanction. As regards local authorities it must be remembered that they are appointed and elected by the same type of suffrage as other public representatives. They will be as anxious as others to see that the best is got out of the situation, but they are all unanimous— and I am speaking as somebody who is not a member of a local authority and who is merely forming an impression from what he has heard—in these complaints against the Government and the Minister's Department as voiced by Deputy O'Malley.

First of all, let me say with regard to the two gentlemen who occupy the Front Benches of the Opposition that they are two Deputies for whom I have nothing but the greatest respect. I value everything they say in this House and I certainly think they are two of the most industrious Deputies in the Opposition. Therefore, I would not like to charge them with endeavouring to sabotage the building industry, but I do say, and I say it deliberately that they are now propagating the falsehoods of their mentors.

The facts are there, that there has only been a slight decrease of 3.9 per cent. in the building of local authority housing in this country within the past 12 months. I do not think that worth discussing, so I will confine my arguments to employment in the building of private houses, namely, houses for which Small Dwelling (Acquisition) Act loans are made available. I think we will all agree that the major portion of these houses are built in the City of Dublin. Let us take the City of Dublin and examine the position in the current year.

The Government for the first time in history gave to the Corporation of Dublin £1,000,000 for small dwellings, plus £3,000,000 for other capital projects. That £1,000,000 was committed some time ago, but not paid; in other words, the houses are not yet completed. We have told the corporation that for next year we are going to give them £4,000,000 for small dwellings and all other capital works with which they wish to proceed. They spent £1,000,000 this year. If they want to, out of that £4,000,000, they could spend another £1,000,000 next year and they could be getting on with the work of building those houses because there will be no draw before 31st March next on whatever moneys they wish to make available for Small Dwellings Acquisition Loans. Dublin Corporation knew there was a by-election in the City of Dublin. They knew it from the month of June and they decided then that there would be no allocation out of their £4,000,000 for loans for small dwellings.

Deputy Larkin does not agree with you.

The Deputy must bear with me. I have only five more minutes.

Major de Valera

You have a majority on the corporation. Let that be clear.

Deputy Briscoe would not be Lord Mayor of Dublin, if we had a majority on the corporation.

(Interruptions).

The Minister must be heard in the few minutes left to him.

We gave £4,000,000 to the Dublin Corporation, who decided, in view of the by-election, that they would not give one penny of that for small dwellings.

That is a falsehood.

Immediately the by-election was over, Dublin Corporation last week decided to give £213,000 for small dwellings, despite the fact that all during the election campaign they said we would give no money to them. They have given £213,000, and I was very glad to hear Deputy Larkin saying last night they would probably have £500,000 for small dwellings during the coming year. That is something I like to hear. Why was that not said in the month of June last? Why did Dublin Corporation not allocate £213,000 for small dwellings in the month of June and not hold up the building trade? The work could be going on. There would be no draws before 1st April next and, in case there were draws, I gave Dublin Corporation sanction for an overdraft of £500,000, so that in the interim period between this year and next year there might be no stoppage whatsoever in the building of private houses. I am very glad that Deputy Larkin told the House there will be £213,000 available. I went further. I notified Dublin Corporation on 26th of this month that they will not get the £4,000,000 next year unless they are prepared to give a reasonable allocation for small dwellings, and I consider a reasonable allocation £500,000. I have notified them by letter that they must give £500,000 to enable the builders in Dublin to continue in employment the men who have been employed in the building trade down through the years. This is sabotage and it is nothing but sabotage.

By Deputy Larkin as well.

I am referring to the Deputies on those benches. I shall read now a letter written by a responsible Deputy of the Fianna Fáil Party, a Deputy who honours this House by being the Leas-Cheann Comhairle. This letter is written to a constituent of mine.

On a point of order. Is it in order for the Minister——

If you want to kill the time, if you do not want to hear the letter, I shall leave it for another occasion.

I am asking is it in order for the Minister to read this communication since we have not seen it on this side?

I am giving it to you now. It is dated 27th September last and inter alia it is stated in that letter: “Regarding roads——

Major de Valera

You had better read the whole letter, if you read any part of it.

The letter says:—

"Regarding roads, the county council has informed us——"

This gentleman is a member of the county council.

"——that all grants are stopped as the Government has no money. Even housing grants, farm improvement and drainage grants are all stopped and things are even getting worse."

Is that sabotage or is it not? I say that is the greatest sabotage that was ever committed in this country.

Major de Valera

Read the whole letter.

Does the Deputy stand over that letter?

Major de Valera

Let us have the whole document read.

Does he stand over it? Does Deputy Cunningham stand over that letter?

Do you want an answer? Will you allow me to answer?

Major de Valera

On a point of order. Having quoted from this document, the Minister should read the whole document.

Very good. It is headed "Bunbeg, 27th September, 1956, Dáil Éireann":

"Dear Edward,

Your letter to hand. There is no use in appealing against the Doctor's decision as the Department will always back him up to the very end. I would advise you to go into the Labour Exchange there with that letter and ask the manager if you can apply for Stamp Benefit since the Doctor states that you are fit for work. I enclose the other Doctor's certificate but the Department will not accept it.

Regarding roads. The county council has informed us that all grants are stopped as the Government has no money. Even housing grants, farm improvement and drainage grants are all stopped and things are even getting worse. I am getting in touch to-day with the Land Commission and will let you know the results later.

Yours sincerely,

(Signed) Cormac Breslin, T.D."

If that is not an act of sabotage against this State, then I do not know what is.

The Dáil adjourned at 5.30 p.m. until 3 p.m. on Wednesday, 5th December, 1956

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