Dáil Éireann debate -
Thursday, 21 Nov 1957

Vol. 164 No. 6

Tourist Traffic Bill, 1957—Second Stage (Resumed).

Question again proposed: "That the Bill be now read a Second Time."

Mr. Sweetman

This Tourist Traffic Bill, as the Minister made clear, is primarily for the purpose of extending the period for which guarantees and certain interest-free loans can be given under the earlier Acts and which period expired within the past few months. I was a little surprised that the Minister, in dealing with the general tourist problem, did not advert or refer to what is undoubtedly the main problem in relation to our tourist trade. The real difficulty with which we have to contend in any expansion or development of tourism is the fact that the season here is so lamentably short. Even during that very short season, there is a more than substantial portion of it during which the bed occupancy in all the hotels, no matter how good they may be, leaves something to be desired. There is a short peak period in which we have a substantial inflow of visitors, but it is more than difficult for those in the hotel and other tourist business, dependent on that inflow, to spread their overheads for the whole year over the number of visitors who come to them during the short peak period.

It is a matter for congratulation that last year Bord Fáilte decided to promote additional tourists to Ireland by endeavouring to arrange that as many conferences as possible should be held here. That is a type of tourist business which we can get at a time when normal holiday traffic has either not fully commenced or has started to taper off. I hope that new promotional angle which started last year and which has brought substantial results, indeed gratifying results this year, will be continued and that they will concentrate more on bringing people here during the off-season period rather than during the peak period.

It is undeniable that anything that can be done towards increasing the number of tourists at times other than the peak period will do more to establish the tourist industry and inspire those in it into expansion than anything else. We must consider, too, how we will publicise abroad the facilities we have to offer. We are a small country and to publicise everywhere the many advantages that we have to offer would require an enormous amount of money. If we were to do it on a broad and general scale, it would be far beyond our resources, and it is necessary for us, therefore, either to get some new medium of publicity or else concentrate on certain specific sectors of likely tourist business.

This must be, I imagine, a problem with which not merely Bord Fáilte are concerned, but with which Aer Lingus must also be concerned. In relation to Aer Lingus, we can see the advertisements which they can provide on a comparatively modest budget for taking people from Ireland abroad, but the market which they have to cover for that purpose is small. When one considers it the other way—the market they have to cover to bring people here from France, from Spain, from Portugal, from Switzerland, from Germany and from wherever they happen to have services—they are faced with a very wide market indeed and the expenditure necessary to reach that market through newspaper publicity would be very large. In that respect, therefore, we have to recognise that that is a fact which must be constantly borne in mind in deciding the basis upon which and the method by which our tourist propaganda shall be beamed abroad.

I think it wise that in this Bill provision should be made to ensure that an interest free grant can be given in the case where there is no guarantee, just as in the case where there is a guarantee. It may cut out some unnecessary administration and may do a great deal to expedite consideration of these cases.

The Minister also mentioned the taxation incentives on new tourist buildings which I arranged to provide last year. These things will undoubtedly act as incentives towards the provision of new holiday accommodation, but the greatest incentive of all would be to be able to do something to extend the season. However, I do think it is necessary to ensure that in the distribution of grants to local authorities and local development companies, there will not be any duplication. I came across cases some time ago where it seemed to me that grants for a similar or almost similar purpose were being made out of different funds at the same time. There should be a central administration in relation to that, rather than that there should be one grant for a portion of the expenditure dispensed by Bord Fáilte and another by the Department of Local Government and so on.

Equally, it is highly desirable that it should be made certain that where any grant is being given to a local company for the erection of new holiday accommodation, that new accommodation is to meet an additional need and not merely has the effect of taking from an existing amenity already there and catering quite satisfactorily. I know of one case. There was a ballroom run quite satisfactorily by a private person. Nobody had any complaint to make against the management, the structure or anything else. It was run as an ordinary commercial enterprise in a satisfactory way and yet it was clear to everyone that in it was clear to everyone that in that area, even at peak periods, there was need for only one such ballroom.

Nevertheless, Bord Fáilte gave a grant to a local tourist development company to erect another ballroom and all that happened was that the new ballroom took the business of the first, and there is at present not really enough for both. Each of them is struggling along. I think that is entirely wrong. Steps should be taken to ensure that when a grant is given in a case like that, there is a genuine need for additional accommodation. Further, I think that in the consideration of the need for additional accommodation, priority should always be given to something that will provide off-peak accommodation.

The Minister referred to the provisions of Section 5 of the Bill, bringing motels under the control of Bord Fáilte. I think that since one of the principal advantages we have to offer here is good scenery, with a short season for it, the motel is one of the most desirable advances that could be made in the provision of holiday accommodation. If there are to be motels—and I use the word in the general sense covering everything intended in Section 5—it is clearly right that they should be under the control of Bord Fáilte in order to ensure that the standard will be a reasonable one. All of us will agree with that without any reservation. I am particularly been on this type of holiday accommodation because it can be provided reasonably cheaply and because it would be one of the best ways of ensuring that we were able to sell the value of our scenery to visitors from abroad.

I am glad that this section has been incorporated in the Bill. I notice, however, that, in Section 5, one of the names of these motels substantially in use in America has not been included in the Bill. I am referring to tourist courts. The word "motor court" is mentioned, but in America the word "tourist court" is perhaps more common for this type of accommodation than any of the words that are included. They started off being known always as "motels". In America, they moved from that definition to that of "tourist courts". In so far as there would be any American tourists using this type of accommodation, the omission of the word "tourist court" is one that should be rectified.

Mr. S. Lemass

Power is taken to extend by order.

Mr. Sweetman

I think you might extend it in the actual Bill. I think that if the Minister makes inquiries in America, he will find that what I have said is correct. I take it also that the effect of including these motor hotels, as they are described in the note on the side of the section, as being now bound for registration, is also to make them available for the type of loan and interest free grant that is included in Section 2. I should like the Minister to confirm specifically that they will now come within the terms "holiday accommodation" for which the loans and grants towards payment of interest will be available when this Bill has been enacted.

Perhaps because the time for questions was fast approaching, the Minister did not say very much about Section 9. I think he will agree with me that this represents a radical divergence from the established policy of the Tourist Board since it was set up. It is a very big departure indeed that, for the first time, the board will publicise accommodation for which it is accepting no responsibility whatever as to conditions, charges, and so on. It will be extremely hard to get the average visitor to understand that in relation to list A, the board accepts responsibility, and, in relation to list B, no responsibility is accepted. I see the greatest danger in this of such confusion as would besmirch our good name.

I entirely agree with the Minister that Bord Fáilte, the Tourist Board, the I.T.A. and all these tourist bodies must have received from time to time pretty numerous inquiries for the type of unregistered premises accommodation, which is mentioned in Section 9. I accept that without question, but I am seriously concerned that the effect of an official publication, giving particulars of such accommodation, will lead to confusion and will lead to certain people, who consider their own interests rather than the national interests, trying to pass off this unregistered accommodation as if the accommodation was in fact registered and subject to the standards that have been laid do in from time to time by what I would call the Tourist Board.

It can, perhaps, be obviated by the greatest possible care in the circulation of the special list and in the manner in which such a list is branded as being an unregistered list for which responsibility is not accepted. But no matter how many such inquiries there may be to Bord Fáilte at the present time, in dealing with the matter as is indicated in Section 9, the board will be playing with fire. They may succeed in performing a service, but there is at the same time the greatest danger that if they do not take the most stringent precautions, they will undo a great deal of the work already done in relation to visitors from abroad.

There is also the danger that the owners of hotel accommodation here who have built up standards for themselves will feel they are not now getting the same advantage of reputation from that standard as the result of registration with Bord Fáilte as they had got before and there may not be, in consequence, the same urge for them further to improve their premises.

One other matter I want to refer to, in passing, which is not in the Bill and in respect of which I do not know whether statutory enactment will be necessary, is that it is not always feasible for hotels as far away as the publication of the hotels list for the following year to fix finally and accurately, without any possibility of modification, the charges they propose for the current season. Is there power in special circumstances for Board Fáilte to permit a hotel, where circumstances have changed, to modify the charges on which they have been registered for that period? If there is not any such power, the board should have the authority to enable them to do so. There should be some flexibility to meet special circumstances because, of necessity, the particulars necessary for registration must be sent in a very considerable time before the tourist season opens.

Mr. Briscoe

I must say I am very glad to see the introduction of this Bill, though, as the Minister has said, it deals only with pretty limited aspects of the amenities that we hope to need in the near future with regard to the tourist trade. The Minister spoke, as did Deputy Sweetman, in reference to what we now call the bottle-neck, the lack of sufficient hotel accommodation during what is now recognised as the limited tourist season, and said that it is hoped by this Bill further to increase accommodation and to improve amenities in hotels.

In that respect, I should like to express the hope that those for whom this Bill is being introduced will appreciate that it will help not only the country through its tourist trade but also those engaged in the business attached to that trade, and that they will take immediate advantage of this Bill and begin to do something in these matters. We have a great number of hotels which lack accommodation for guests, particularly in respect of bathrooms and showerbaths, and it is about time that they proceeded to have this lack remedied.

The Minister said that experts in the tourist trade have indicated to him that we can hope for a greatly extended business in the near future. I hope that is right and I believe our tourist trade will extend, provided we follow the advice inherent in this Bill. There are other aspects as well that we must consider. Apart from the interest other countries or the institutions of other countries will take, we must consider to what extent, if any, we are lacking at home in the provision of what one might call certain transport requirements.

I should like seriously to suggest to the Minister that he might request Aer Lingus to examine their position with regard to helping in the matter of the transport of tourists, once they have arrived here. I have had a number of complaints from Americans who have arrived at Shannon in the most up-to-date and fastest planes. Having arrived at Shannon, it took twice as long to get from there to Dublin as it did to get to Shannon from San Francisco. There should be some understanding that when a plane is expected with passengers bound for Dublin, some kind of a shuttle airplane service would be available to take them to their destination quickly. At the moment, these people have to stay all night in Limerick or come up here by train or by taxi, for which they pay from £18 to £20.

An Ceann Comhairle

The scope of this debate is being considerably extended.

Mr. Briscoe

I do not see how it is being extended. We had reference to transport developments abroad in connection with tourism.

An Ceann Comhairle

In connection with this Bill?

Mr. Briscoe

Yes. The Minister indicated that very soon American companies would have faster and bigger planes to land customers of our tourist trade in Ireland.

An Ceann Comhairle

It will be time enough when "very soon" arrives.

Mr. Briscoe

I want to refer to the fact that they have already arrived and have already found themselves in difficulties.

An Ceann Comhairle

I am considering the scope of the Bill. That is all that concerns me.

Mr. Briscoe

If you rule me out, I shall accept your ruling, but I should like to say that if we are talking about treating tourists to better amenities, we must include better transport, instead of the present system under which it takes 24 hours to get from Shannon to Dublin. The suggestion I want to make is that there should be some understanding between our own company and the companies landing planes at Shannon by which incoming planes could radio ahead saying they had so many passengers to off-load at Shannon. Then provision could be made for one of our own planes to take them to Dublin even if it cost double the usual fare——

An Ceann Comhairle

Having done that good day's work, I suggest the Deputy should come back to the Bill.

Mr. Briscoe

If we are to consider seriously this second most important industry in Ireland in all its aspects and leave on the long finger things that are of immediate concern we shall not be able to bring about the improvement that is needed in our own economy. However, it is now on record, I hope, and I trust the Minister will examine it and see if something can be done about it.

I think there is a misunderstanding about the period of time for what is called the tourist season. Our tourist trade this year began at the end of March and continued with a very slight drop in intermediate periods up to October. I firmly believe that, if we set about it properly we can have our tourist business continue for at least seven or eight months in the year. Everybody agrees there are intervening periods, such as Christmas, when we get a sudden rush of people for a limited time and that is not regarded as regular tourist traffic. It is well known abroad that we have an adequacy of good food for visitors at prices which are cheap even in comparison with the countries from which the visitors come. It is generally agreed that nationally there is great courtesy on the part of our people to visitors and above all it is good to know that the standard of honesty all over the country is regarded as being on a very high level.

The Minister spoke of £250,000 as being the total amount spent under the 1952 Bill by way of loans but that sum did not include any figures for hotels which themselves borrowed money and made their own loan arrangements. I am glad to know that hotels which make their own financial arrangements, by methods other than Government guarantee, will be given some consideration by way of grant towards interest charges. It should, of course, be understood that this type of expenditure would be subject to the approval of An Bord Failte.

Deputy Sweetman seemed to criticise our tourist publicity as it exists at the moment, and I agree with him that we could not possibly find the necessary amount of money for proper promotion, as it is called elsewhere. If it were done, many people would probably be critical as to how the results accruing would be gauged.

Mr. Sweetman

To be quite fair, I do not think I criticised the publicity. I appreciated the difficulty of publicising——

Mr. Briscoe

I know, but there was a certain carping about it.

Mr. Sweetman

No, I am quite satisfied that what is needed to do it properly would be quite beyond our resources.

Mr. Briscoe

The Deputy did mention certain deficiencies with regard to our publicity.

Mr. Sweetman

Did I?

Mr. Briscoe

I want to tell the House and the Deputy that a number of hotels in Ireland have recently begun to develop a form of public relations with hotels abroad. Some Irish hotels have members of their staffs or of their boards or even the owners themselves travelling abroad, contacting hotels, and making arrangements so that these foreign hotels will publicise their Irish counterparts. A sort of agreement is reached by which the hotel abroad recommends clients to visit this country and in particular certain hotels here.

I wonder to what extent we are getting help from the transport companies who serve this country, through their ticket officers? Have they sufficient propaganda concerning transport facilities between the country they represent and Ireland? I understand quite a lot has been done in that respect. I think An Bord Fáilte is to be congratulated on the manner in which it has taken up the system of operating publicity through travel agencies all over the world. Recently we had groups of visitors exclusively representative of travel agencies coming here to see for themselves what we have to offer for tourists so that they can go back and confidently recommend their clients to visit Ireland.

In regard to Section 9 of the Bill, I hope that the Tourist Board in association with An Bord Fáilte will persist in grading our hotels and listing them according to grade. I think it would be very wrong if we were to lose grip on the situation that results from grading hotels so that tourists, when they see the grading, know what to expect and know, to a great extent, what the charges are likely to be.

I do not know whether the Bill in its present form will preclude An Bord Fáilte from doing what it has done in the past in connection with advising, assisting and supporting—even giving grants for the purpose—the development of local amenities in places of tourist resort. I hope they will be encouraged to continue interest in this particular aspect of the problem. Tourists do not necessarily want solely to come to an hotel where they will get good food, good service and good conditions generally. They also want amenities around and about the places where they stop. An Bord Fáilte, having gathered from places abroad and from their own experience sufficient information and knowledge, should be able now to help even more than they have done in the past. I am not finding fault with what they have done in the past, but they should keep their eyes on this matter at home and try to help in every possible way.

I agree with those who say our tourist business can be very substantially increased. Apart from the methods of publicity, national and otherwise and through private enterprise, tourists who come here will go back to their homes and, as a result of their experience here, there will be further publicity for this country and additional tourists will come. I met many tourists this year here, who had come for the first time in their lives and who found it quite different from what they had been led to believe, not only about our people but about the country itself. They have given definite promises that not only will they come again and come for a longer period but that they will advocate to their friends and relations the desirability of spending some part of their vacation in this country. We have much to offer. The Minister is doing the right thing in keeping himself informed and indicating his willingness to assist in every way those who are engaged in this business for profit, as well as those who are concerned with the tourist business for the general welfare of the people.

I had the experience this year of meeting very many people who had come from abroad. A great number of them came for the first time. I believe that those of us who find ourselves in a position to do so, can afford to boast and boast loudly about Ireland as a desirable country which one should visit as a tourist. I hope that as time goes on the tourist business will increase in importance and, instead of being the second most important item in our economy the tourist returns will, I hope, within a reasonable period of years, lead all forms of business which this country has with the rest of the world.

Mr. Coburn

The most important aspect of this measure is the fact that the Minister, realising the importance of tourism, is renewing the period during which An Bord Fáilte can give loans to various hoteliers for the improvement of their premises. I am sure the hoteliers are very appreciative of all that is being done for them. Every time one reads the paper, one sees that in other countries millionaires and other rich people are building very modern hotels, because they realise that there is an all-out drive in every country to attract visitors. Each country is vying with others to attract as many people as possible, realising the financial results which will accrue. I think it is a mistake for hoteliers here to try to ape hotels in other countries. Visitors do not expect to find the kind of hotel they will find in America, England or the Continent. All they want is moderate hotels which are clean, which will provide good food, clean rooms, clean bedclothes, and courtesy above all things. Those are the things which matter, in my opinion.

There is an interesting item included in this Bill—the question of motels and their registration. They have to be registered. That is, of course, quite right and proper. It is a unique venture and I am sure it will be availed of very much. We must admit that more people every year are going on holidays with cars, whether they own them or have hired them for a period.

With regard to the list of nonregistered premises, I think personally it is a good idea, although there may be some confusion in the initial stages, as Deputy Sweetman suggests. It should help the small resorts where the hotels are not able to conform to the regulations of An Bord Fáilte for the purpose of being registered. They have not the capital with which to renovate their premises and if they do put capital into doing so, it will eat into any profits that may come for the season. When visitors come to the small or lesser known resorts, they do not expect to find big hotels. They are satisfied with the ordinary comforts of cleanliness and good food.

The Minister referred to other proposals which are not mentioned in this Bill, proposals which he received from many organisations which have the promotion of tourism at heart. One of those organisations is the Irish Tourist Association, of which I have the honour to be a member. That association is composed of representatives from all over the country and their views represent a pretty good cross-section of opinion regarding tourism generally. I hope and trust that, when the Minister gets round to examining these proposals at a future date, he will give favourable consideration to anything that association has proposed via An Bord Fáilte.

I should like to pay tribute to the work of An Bord Fáilte. It is a body of men very often criticised up and down the country. Very often we find development associations and other organisations clamouring for financial aid from An Bord Fáilte. However, the funds of the board are limited, though some people may think they are unlimited and with the limited money at their disposal they are doing a very good job.

With regard to the tours of foreign travel agents who come to this country, I would suggest that the Minister request the board in future to make sure those agents visit the lesser known areas. I think they are inclined to make for set places every time they come-Killarney, Dublin, Cork, Galway and such places. Those places definitely deserve attention, as they are the most popular resorts, but there are other places where the local people are doing their best to increase their income from tourism. I suggest that in future those travel agents should be brought on tour to lesser known areas, so that they will also come into the picture. I might mention in passing that all those agents seem to do is attend functions, dinners and shows in Dublin City and such places. They very rarely get down to practical work —though I suppose sometimes they do it behind the scenes.

I would ask the Minister also to see that more attention is paid to exhorting Irish people to spend their holidays at home here in Ireland. Millions of pounds are spent in foreign countries by people who leave this country and go abroad. We cannot force them to stay here. It would be a bad thing if we did so. People will always want to travel to far-away places. That is understandable and natural. If hotels and local bodies embark on a greater advertising campaign to attract our own people, emphasising the amenities of the local scenery and attractions, greater results would ensue.

I should like to compliment the Minister on his efforts to promote tourism in general. As Deputy Briscoe says, it is our second greatest industry, realising in the region of £30,000,000 to £35,000,000 annually. If implementation of this Bill forwards the tourist drive in this country, it will be worth while.

Mr. Healy

As one who has been connected in a voluntary capacity with tourism for over 20 years, I feel I might make a few remarks as to how the matter appears to stand to us who come from the constituency which cradled the Irish Tourist Association over 30 years ago. While we feel that Shannon airport provides admirable facilities for visitors from the American continent and elsewhere, the facilities at the port of Cork for those who travel by sea are not at all comparable with what obtain at Shannon.

If we want to encourage more and more people from the Americas especially to come to our shores, we should make an effort to improve the facilities at Cobh. I do not think it can be passed over by saying it is in any way the duty of the Cobh local authority or the Cork Harbour Commissioners. It is a national problem. Certainly the tender service there for the embarking and disembarking of tourists is not at all comparable with what obtains at continental ports.

The possibilities of providing deep-water facilities and quays for liners berthing at Cobh should be examined, if there is to be a future at all for the tourist traffic from America. I am one of those who always held that in regard to the tourist industry, now admitted to be our second biggest industry and, in my opinion, potentially our biggest industry, we should not be niggardly when we come to spend money upon it. People had to be educated to realise the importance of tourism. When it comes to spending money, it could be spent in a worse way than upon improving tourist facilities.

Another thing we have been agitating for in Cork for 15 years or more is the provision of an airport. We feel that is necessary for the Americans who step off the liner at Cobh. I cannot go all the way with Deputy Briscoe who thinks that anybody who gets off at Shannon wants to get to Dublin as fast as he can. They might want to get to Cork and Kerry.

One question discussed here concerns how we can procure publicity abroad. The Cork Tostal Council have, for the past five years, promoted an international choral festival which brings hundreds of foreign competitors to our city and country. I have seen in continental papers glowing accounts by these tourists of our country when they returned to Italy, France, Holland, Germany and other places. I would say the publicity was freely given. It would have cost a tremendous amount of money had we to buy the publicity in the continental papers. This year, the number of tourists from the continent has shown quite an appreciable increase over the previous years. Perhaps that is one of the reasons.

I would ask the Minister, if it is necessary to ask him, to continue to allow Bord Fáilte to give the grants to those who are improving local amenities. I have first-hand information with regard to some of the places improved, helped by the grant from Bord Fáilte, but with a great deal of voluntary labour and capital put into it as well. The one way of encouraging and promoting the tourist industry is to get as much help as possible, especially from the people of the different neighbourhoods, and hope they will all feel local as well as national pride in their own vicinity. This Bill is a step in the right direction. We can never be satisfied until we realise the potential of the tourist industry and that it will bring in not the £30,000,000 we are getting now but—and I say this without fear of much contradiction—a potential value of £50,000,000.

Mr. Corish

I listened to part of this debate and I have listened to other debates on the tourist industry. All of us are agreed that, while it is the second biggest industry we have, it could be the biggest industry. Some people in this House and in the country are inclined to think of tourists exclusively in terms of Americans, French, German, Spanish, Italian and others. As far as I can gather, it is the British working-man who could be the greatest source of money to this country as a tourist. I do not want to say anything bad or disparaging about Americans, Frenchmen or Germans, but my experience is that the factory-worker from Britain, the ordinary working-man, the fellow who frequents Tramore, Rosslare and the provincial towns on the east coast is the best spender in any case.

He is not the fellow who goes round with the fancy and expensive camera, the loud check suit and camel-hair overcoat, but the working-man with a cap. He spends money in the public-house, the souvenir shop, the cinema, the dance hall and upon the "gimmicks" one sees at the seaside resorts. In my opinion, he is the man who should be encouraged first. For certain reasons, the man coming from a far distance must be more careful of the money he has. He has budgeted for the holiday he is going to spend in Ireland or elsewhere. He is strictly on a budget merely by reason of the fact that he is so far away from home. It would be much more inconvenient to get money from a place 3,000 miles away.

In respect of Ireland and the towns along the east coast in any case, the British working man has a shorter distance to travel than, say, a person in Wexford in relation to Dublin. He is not as strictly on a budget as the American, the Spaniard or the Frenchman. Apart from all these considerations, the experience amongst shopkeepers, publicans and cinema owners is that the ordinary British working man is the best spender and leaves much more money in this country per head than any other tourist. Primarily, it is that type of tourist we should cater for and encourage. I do not think he is receiving sufficient encouragement.

Most of the advertising we have in this country through the ordinary channels is in the nature of advertisements of what appear to be luxurious hotels—advertisements to attract people for fishing for which one has got to pay, possibly, an expensive fee. I am not very well up in the subject of fishing, as I have never fished, but I am led to believe that a certain type of fishing can be expensive. The admission to golf clubs of those people I have mentioned for a week or fortnight is expensive as well. However, we should point out to them the other advantages which our country enjoys. Take, for example, coarse fishing. Deputy O. Flanagan knows something about that subject and it is something that might attract the type of British tourist I have just mentioned. I believe the British holiday-maker is the type of tourist whom we should encourage to this country in the first place.

This year has been bad for tourism, for various reasons. I do not think we are getting the right type of publicity from certain of the British newspapers, and especially the British Sunday newspapers. We are all very conscious of the difficulties—let us call them political difficulties—which we have had in this country over the past 18 months. These difficulties have been exaggerated and magnified, without a doubt, in the British Press. I will not say it was done deliberately to destroy the tourist trade for another purpose that we will not go into now, but that sort of journalism by the British newspapers, and especially the British Sunday newspapers, damaged the tourist trade in this country over the summer. Many southern and eastern coastal resorts which I visited showed evidence that that type of journalism and propaganda did have its effect.

I remember reading in one of the newspapers an account of something that was printed on a bridge here in Dublin. The actual words were "Bás do'n Bhéarla" which, as we all know, means "Death to the English Language," but it was translated in one of the English newspapers as "Death to the English." That would give the impression to any innocent Britisher that if he set foot in Ireland at Dublin Airport, at the North Wall or anywhere else, he would immediately be set upon. All these little things deter people from coming to this country and induce them, rather, to slip across to France or to go to some part of Wales, Scotland or England for their holidays.

We all agree with Deputy Sweetman that the short season, which seems to be our greatest difficulty, can be extended. We, in Wexford, have shown that it can be extended. The initiative of the local people extended it. There was no encouragement—neither was there discouragement—from the Minister for Industry and Commerce in respect of that particular venture. I suppose it was a love of music and art and things artistic in general that sponsored the Wexford Festival. It should also be borne in mind that, whilst the person directly responsible for it is not a business man, nevertheless, on that particular committee there are hoteliers, shopkeepers and business people in general who appreciate the value of the festival so far as trade to the town is concerned.

The Wexford Festival was not enthusiastically received by the ordinary townsfolk in the first place. Gradually, however, they began to realise that it meant an increase in revenue to the town, an increase which made its way down to practically every citizen. Those who come there smoke, drink, eat, buy things in shops and have to avail themselves of all the necessary services which they would have to avail of if they were back home. All that money finds its way down to practically every citizen of the town. When the festival promised to be the successful venture it has proved itself to be, it got financial support from An Bord Fáilte. The Wexford people were and still are very grateful for the encouragement and the financial help given by An Bord Fáilte and different State Departments, in particular the Department of Posts and Telegraphs.

The present Minister for Industry and Commerce was the father of An Tóstal. I should be interested now to hear his views on An Tóstal as it has been run over the past three or four years. He is a hard-headed, honest man as well as a man of action. However, I wonder if his views of An Tóstal antics have not changed over the past three or four years. In some parts of the country, the activities of An Tóstal were a tragedy. They were a financial tragedy in Croke Park in the years when we had those historical pageants. They were not money-spinners. I do not think they attracted any percentage of foreign visitors at all. I am not trying to castigate or blame the Minister or An Bord Fáilte for any mistakes made. I believe that that investment and the expenditure of the money was worth while in order to discover how best we could devote our energies and money in trying to make the season longer.

In some of the places I know, An Tóstal festivities were not organised for the benefit of any tourists. I do not think anybody had any idea that it would attract tourism or increase revenue to any particular spot. It was a sort of anglicised feis. The people in the various towns amused themselves. They were doing it in the name of An Tóstal and, as they believed, for the tourist industry, but it had no effect in the world, except to get the local committees tragically into debt. I have no sympathy with a lot of them. They went into some of these ventures with their eyes open. They had not a businesslike approach. They were warned, in some cases, that a venture would collapse and that they would be left in debt, but they had the spirit of An Tóstal and that overshadowed any other consideration that eventually meant a debt and difficulties for them.

Our efforts at publicising our country as a tourist centre are very puny. I suppose that is because we cannot afford to compete with other countries in lavish advertising programmes. In some cities abroad, I have seen very puny advertisements of our country which were about three or four times the size of an Order Paper or Bill. They do nothing except bring the country into disrepute. I do not know what effort can be made to publicise Ireland as a tourist centre but I have one suggestion to make. Possibly it will not commend itself to the Minister, but it may, perhaps, appeal to An Bord Fáilte who are not, in the strictest sense, civil servants.

One of the best media for advertising the tourist industry is the radio. I do not think there would be any objection, and neither would it be vulgar, if Bord Fáilte had a radio programme of 30 or 60 minutes per week advertising our country as a tourist centre. I do not know what it would cost. That is just an idea which occurred to me and I have not any strict views on it. I would point out, however, that Radio Luxembourg, which is purely an advertising station, commands a listening audience of millions per night. The types of people who listen to its programmes are the types of people I mentioned in the first part of my speech. They are the people who would spend money if they came to Ireland.

This Bill is agreed, and I hope the Minister will show his usual energy in trying to ensure that the tourist industry will become bigger and bigger and will eventually be our major industry.

Mr. Moloney

I am glad to have this opportunity of making a few observations on this Bill. In the first place, I should like to congratulate the Minister on bringing forward this rather limited measure, as I should call it, at this stage. It is quite obvious that, since the original Bill was passed some five or six years ago, remarkable developments have occurred in the tourist industry. It was accordingly to be expected that some major amendment, or addition to the existing legislation, would be necessary and, in the short Bill that we have now got from the Minister, he has brought the matter pretty well up to date.

I do feel, however, that the time will shortly arrive again when the Minister will find it necessary to bring in further legislation. There is what I regard as a very satisfactory trend in our tourist development programme. Originally, when legislation in this direction established Bord Fáilte, some five or six years ago, the position was that only the better-off people were regarded as a source of holiday-makers. Since Word War II, there has been a most significant and satisfactory development in the type of holiday programmes being organised for various people.

We have now quite a big percentage of working-class people, particularly those engaged in industrial concerns in England, in a position to take a week's or a fortnight's holiday with their families. Sooner or later, and the sooner the better, in this connection, we will be obliged to give consideration to the provision of suitable facilities for that type of holiday-maker. They have a limited amount of money at their disposal to enable their families to have these short holidays and they are not in a position to book accommodation in the better class hotels. They are, of necessity, obliged to spend their holidays in hotels of medium standards, and very often in a holiday camp.

There are great possibilities in that type of tourist traffic and I would urge the Minister to direct the attention of Bord Fáilte to that avenue of tourism, with a view to getting the board, by some means or other, to encourage, preferably through the medium of private enterprise, local business concerns or hoteliers to provide something on the chalet line of accommodation, which can be found in a number of holiday camps in the country at the present time. That is a very satisfactory type of accommodation for the average man taking his wife and family on a holiday, and it is something we will have to try to develop. It is essential if we are to attract everybody that should come to the country.

Existing legislation does not provide grants for the erection of holiday camps in the same manner as it provides for hotels. That is something of which the Minister might take note. In my opinion, any type of construction that would seem to suit the purposes of this type of tourist should get equal facilities. The holiday camp accomodation is the thing, if it is developed, provided for, and controlled, and it will bring considerable revenue by way of tourist traffic.

With regard to the variety of entertainment provided at seaside resorts, there is something lacking there. We have had other Deputies speaking on the comparative shortness of the tourist season, and on how desirable it is that the period should be extended. I am informed myself, from sources competent to speak on this matter, that the big difficulty with regard to the running of an economic business in the tourist hotel trade, is that too much is expected in too short a time and very little is available for a long part of the year. The scheme, which many hotel interests have suggested for the extension of the tourist season, should be put into operation and that scheme, as far as I know, has more or less provided that a variety of amusements, or sport, as the case may be, should be staggered over the whole period with a view to fitting in something for every week, and particularly in the month of September.

We have many seaside resorts, good tourist resorts, which have very little to offer other than good hotel accommodation, a game of golf and a good ballroom. That is not enough because there are many people who would just not be in form for golf or dancing. They want other forms of amusement and a great deal of progress could be made, particularly in attracting tourists from abroad to such centres, if some extra amenities in the form of boating or deep-sea fishing, shooting or something of that kind were provided. Unfortunately, there are too many interests speaking on all these subjects, and it is about time that some effort was made to coordinate the efforts of the many interests that are undoubtedly trying to be helpful in this whole question. Because of a certain amount of duplication and lack of agreement, we are not getting the results we should get.

With regard to Section 2, I am glad that the Minister thought fit to provide for the extension of the guaranteed loans scheme from five to ten years. In my opinion, it is only after the first five or six years that this guaranteed loan scheme is beginning to take shape at all. At the present moment, quite a number of hotel interests are anxious to take full advantage of the concession, and a very important concession it is. Very satisfactory progress can be expected in this field during the next four or five years. The Minister has gone a long way to try to facilitate these people.

I should like to refer to Section 4 which relates to grants to local authorities and to companies under the Companies Acts 1908 to 1924, having for their objective the provision of amenities and facilities in tourist resorts and the development of tourist traffic in such resorts. I am very sorry to say that the co-operation of most authorities, while being reasonably satisfactory on the whole, has not been satisfactory in this connection. Closer contact should exist between tourist bodies such as Bord Fáilte, the Irish Tourist Association and local authorities with a view to bringing home to the members of local authorities, in particular, the importance of the tourist trade and the great benefit it can be to the country.

The engineering personnel of local authorities could be more helpful and it should be brought home forcibly to anyone in that category who is not generally co-operating with the national effort that a change must take place. At present, local development companies are finding it extremely difficult to get speedy sanction from An Bord Fáilte for many projects because the necessary undertaking by the local authority concerned that they will be responsible for future maintenance of the particular project is not forthcoming and the promoters of such projects are involved in unnecessary delay. It would be very much in the interests of efficiency if Bord Fáilte could dispense with that particular requirement. Any limited liability company, which has been formed under the auspices of Bord Fáilte, that is seeking assistance for local projects should not be held up because of that requirement. Many of these companies would be quite solvent to offer the necessary guarantees of maintenance and to implement those guarantees in due course. My personal view is that they would implement such guarantees much more satisfactorily than the local authority. Much time and progress has been lost because of that requirement and I would respectfully urge the Minister to use his influence with Bord Fáilte to have that rquirement dispensed with as far as possible.

The formation of local development companies should be encouraged. They are very important bodies and provide the local initiative and do the voluntary work that is so necessary in maintaining the amenities that they endeavour to provide. There are many good reasons why local development authorities should be encouraged and I sincerely hope that, in future, more seaside resorts which have tourist amenities to offer will be encouraged to establish such local bodies and give them work to do.

Mr. S. Flanagan

According to all official estimates the number of tourists throughout the world is increasing and will continue to increase over the next few years. At the same time the market has become more competitive than ever before and it is one in which we will have to fight our corner if we are to maintain our present position and, in addition, get our fair share of the expanding tourist industry.

There are two ways in which you can expand your tourist industry. One is by the use of advertising; the other is by sending away a satisfied visitor. I am not satisfied that at the present time we are doing enough either to advertise the country properly, where it is not known, or to send away our visitors satisfied.

To deal with the first aspect, I should like to commend Bord Fáilte for the production of their brochure called "Ireland of the Welcome". It is very handsomely turned out but I think it is not printed except in the English language. I would suggest that it should be printed in French and German as well and distributed on the Continent. I do not know to what extent it is sold in America but at least in America they can read it in its present form. On the Continent they cannot. The extent of the ignorance of this country that prevails in some countries in Europe is unbelievable. The vast majority of the people in countries as near to us as Holland and Belgium hardly know where Ireland is and I am wondering if it would be worth our while spending a certain amount of money in connection with the Brussels World Exhibition next year. I do not know what, if anything, Bord Fáilte intend to do in connection with that exhibition but it would be a serious mistake to pass up the opportunity of advertising Ireland in a country in which she is very little known.

In regard to the second aspect that I have mentioned, namely, the satisfaction of the visitor, there is one grouse that I am glad to have this opportunity of airing. It concerns the cost charged in 99 per cent. of the hotels for wines supplied with meals. The cost of wines is utterly outrageous and not justified by the amount that the hotels have to pay for them in the first instance. I had experience of one hotel which tried to reduce the cost of wines very substantially to see if their sales would improve. The sales did improve to the extent that they were showing more profit when charging something like 50 per cent. less than they had charged before.

Obviously, there are certain hotels that supply very excellent food and expensive wines which cater for a particular type of tourist but that type is a very small porportion of the people who come to this country. The others should be our main concern.

I do not agree with Deputy Corish when he says that golf is expensive in this country. On the contrary, I think it is very cheap. When he asks what we think about the Tóstal now, my view of it is that in so far as it promotes and helps to promote competitions like the world trout fishing competition, sponsored by Castlebar, and an exchange of golfing matches between Liverpool and Ballina it is doing very valuable work. All the people who took part in those activities expressed delight at the arrangements and proposed to come back again. I should not like it to be said or thought that golf is an expensive pastime here. It is very cheap and the courses are less crowded than they are anywhere else. A person can golf to his heart's content on a course like Rosses Point and there is never the slightest difficulty in getting a game on a course which can compare with the best in the world. There are, of course, plenty of other courses like that in the country. I merely chose it as an example. Anybody who has played golf knows that the first impression one gets of a golf course rarely alters. Certainly, it has been my impression that if you do not like a course the first time you play on it, you never like it.

It is the same with the tourist. If we are to be the "Ireland of the Welcomes", it is essential that we should make a good impression by extending a céad míle fáilte the moment the visitor arrives on our shores. In that I agree with what Deputy Healy said about Cobh and what Deputy Briscoe said about Shannon, though not necessarily with his proposed solution. I hope we have seen the last of the frightful bottlenecks that occur in the month of August, both at North Wall and Dún Laoghaire, when people cannot travel at the time they wish to travel and so forth. That creates a very bad impression. The impression of a country that one gets when leaving it is the one that will survive.

I understand that at present we are charging certain citizens of countries for visas. I do not think we should. Even if they charge us for visas, we should not charge them and in time they will probably remove these unnatural barriers. At present there is a move to abolish the car triptyque——

An Leas-Cheann Comhairle

The Deputy is going outside the ambit of this Bill altogether.

Mr. S. Flanagan

The Chair has been very lenient in this debate.

An Leas-Cheann Comhairle

The Chair has been very lenient.

Mr. S. Flanagan

It has not gone on very long and I am about to finish. There is just one further point that I want to make concerning what Deputy Corish said about the fishing industry. I should like to commend the activities of the Inland Fisheries Trust who have very much improved the fishing facilities in the west of Ireland. At the same time, we have quite a considerable amount of coarse fishing and I think we are not giving enough attention to the advertising of coarse fishing. We will have to pay more attention to that for the purpose of attracting the ordinary working man in England who saves up money to come here for ten days or a fortnight's fishing once a year.

In regard to the hotels, I am not satisfied that enough is being done to make them what they should be. Whether that is the fault of An Bord Fáilte or of the hotel proprietors, I am not going to say. It may be partly the fault of the board and partly the fault of the proprietors, but at a time when tourist are spending less outside the hotels than before and bringing less money with them than they did some years ago, for a fortnight's holiday, the type of service given in the hotel is increasing in importance and will continue to increase in importance in the eyes of the tourist. It is not a question of money essentially; it is a problem of making the amenities of the hotel attractive, making the visitor feel that he is wanted, of treating him as a guest and not as somebody here for the one and only time in his life and it should not be regarded as an opportunity for keeping up the price.

An Bord Fáilte should do everything in their power to see that the visitor is treated properly. If he is, he will come back and that is the best form of advertisment for the tourist trade. If we succeed in getting visitors on one occassion, they will come back a second time, if they are satisfied.

Mr. S. Lemass

I propose to answer only some specific questions addressed to me. When I was introducing the Bill, I did not attempt to deal with tourist development policy in a conprehensive way. This Bill is only to continue and extend the inducements to hotel proprietors for extending and improving their hotels and I will confine myself to that subject.

Deputy Corish asked about the future of An Tóstal. It is clear that the character of An Tóstal has changed somewhat since it was initiated. I think it is of very great importance that there should be some formal organised effort spread over the whole country to start the tourist season, through An Tóstal, earlier than it would otherwise begin. An Tóstal has behind it the idea of increasing the length of the season and is part of the whole campaign to the same end, which includes the organisation of conferences of one kind or another, the development of facilities, as well as the improvement of sporting facilities that would bring people here in the off-season.

So far as publicity is concerned, there is close co-operation between Aer Lingus, An Bord Fáilte and C.I.E. in relation to publicity. A large part of the money available to An Bord Fáilte is spent on publicity, and most of the publicity is in the English language because most of our tourists speak English. The bulk of them, as Deputy Corish said, come from England, and America is next in importance. Some publicity was initiated in Germany for the first time this year following the opening of the direct air link with Germany and it had quite encouraging results.

Deputy Sweetman asked about the possibility of preventing local development companies undertaking enterprises in any holiday resort which has already been organised by private interests. That, of course, is a matter of some concern, but it should be primarily the concern of the local development company. My feeling is that it has been difficult enough to get effective local development moving and it is not desirable that we should start unnecessarily limiting the scope of their activities by having an excessive regard for what they may do to private interests in their areas.

Deputy Sweetman also asked was he right in assuming that when the Bill came into operation, the motels, or motor hotels, will be eligible to receive loans or interest-free grants from the board. They will be so eligible and that is one of the things we provide for in the Bill.

The Deputy referred to the possibility of allowing hotels to increase their charges during the year in exceptional circumstances. There is provision in the Tourist Traffic Act, 1939, for allowing an hotel to increase its charges, with the consent of the board. There was no attempt initially to confine the hotel charges and the purpose of the whole arrangement is to make hotels stick to what they themselves say are their charges. It would be a very serious development if hotels, having given out their prices, which are duly incorporated in the hotel guide sent to travel agents all over the world, deviated from them and if visitors, relying on that information, found changes in those prices. That would defeat the whole purpose of the scheme. It is recognised that there may be certain circumstances which justify exceptional treatment and there is legal provision for that. It should be clearly regarded as very exceptional treatment.

One other matter which I should refer to is that Deputy Sweetman discussed the proposal that the board should prepare and have available a list of boarding houses, or private houses, which would be willing to take visitors and give partial board. The board have asked for permission to do that. They have sought legislative sanction because of the multitude of requests they have had, both from people living outside the country and people arriving here, seeking that type of accommodation. The board, of course, will inspect the premises which seek incorporation in that list to make sure they are generally suitable, but they will, however, be concerned to make sure that people understand what they are getting is a facility through the board that they can avail of or not, as they wish. They will be able, by their arrangements, to make sure that there is no confusion between that list of private houses and boarding houses and the list of registered guest houses or hotels, where the inspectors of the board carry out a more rigorous inspection.

Question put and agreed to.

Committee Stage ordered for Wednesday, 27th November.

The Dáil adjourned at 5.10 p.m. until 3 p.m. on Wednesday, 27th November, 1957.