Dáil Éireann debate -
Thursday, 26 Jun 1958

Vol. 169 No. 6

Turf Development Bill, 1958—Second and Subsequent Stages.

Minister for Industry and Commerce (Mr. S. Lemass)

I move that the Bill be now read a Second Time. The purpose of this Bill, as the House is aware, is to enable Bord na Móna to join with Messrs. Arthur Guinness Son and Company (Dublin) Limited in establishing and maintaining a Chair of Industrial Microbiology at University College, Dublin. Towards the end of last year Messrs. Guinness, who have displayed a deep interest in scientific education and research, approached Bord na Móna with this proposal. While the board were more than willing to participate in the project with Messrs. Guinness, they found that their statutory powers were not adequate to enable them to do so. The purpose of this Bill is to provide the necessary powers for the board.

Bord na Móna already have powers under Section 19 of the Turf Development Act, 1946, to carry out their own researches and experiments, and the achievements of their experimental station at Newbridge clearly indicate what can be done by organised research on peat problems. Since its establishment the resources of this station have been devoted to the improvement of methods of draining bogland and cutting, harvesting and utilising turf and turf products. A great number of new processes and machines have been designed and developed at the station with these objects in view. The outcome of this research has been to improve considerably the efficiency and productivity of all the board's operations and, as a result, the cost of production of the board's products has been maintained at a reasonably stable level.

Microbiology is an important science with wide applications in the medical, agricultural and chemical fields. It is generally accepted that research in the microbiology field is at present inadequately covered in this country. Bord na Móna and Messrs. Guinness regard it as important that such research should be undertaken on a bigger scale and that it should be established on a practical basis with clear objectives.

The main object of the research, which it is proposed to conduct at University College, Dublin, is the study of industrial and soil microbiology applied to turf, that is, to investigate the activities of microorganisms which might be used to promote chemical changes in peat and extend its uses as an industrial raw material. Research of this nature must be fundamental and academic and in order to pursue it properly it is necessary to avail of the conditions and atmosphere of university life.

In addition to research work, courses will also be conducted for students. Spectacular developments at an early date cannot be expected, yet it is only by such scientific work that the major discoveries of our time are made. Peat is an organic substance and it is generally true to say that all organic chemicals can be produced from it. The scope for research activity in peat problems is, therefore, very wide and on that account it would not be possible to give any indication at this stage of the lines along which the work at University College, Dublin, will proceed.

As Deputies are aware, there is in existence an organisation established by the State to carry out industrial research, the Institute for Industrial Research and Standards. The research work in microbiology envisaged in the present proposal will consist principally of pure research, and will be of a long-term nature and confined to a highly specialised field; in addition certain teaching activities will be carried on. The Institute for Industrial Research and Standards was set up to deal with specific practical problems arising in industry and in general the investigations undertaken by it are of a short-term nature. It would not be appropriate, therefore, that the institute should undertake the type of research envisaged by the promoters of the present project.

Turf is already well established as a fuel for the production of electricity and for use in industry and the home. Investigations are at present being carried out into the possibility of utilising it for the production of nitrogenous fertilisers. In addition, as was recently announced, the question of producing town gas from peat is under examination. These large-scale developments can, however, be carried out only on extensive tracts of bogland. For some time the board has been considering the question of extending its operations to the smaller bog areas which contain the greater part of our total peat resources. The prospects of profitable exploitation of these small bogs for the production of conventional peat products are not very good, however, as the development of a whole new range of machines and processes would be required. The research into non-conventional fields which it is proposed to carry out at the university may indicate the possibility of producing hitherto unknown high-grade peat products which might provide a better solution for the development of our western blanket and hill bogs.

There is considerable scope for increased expenditure on industrial research in this country. The main reason for this is, no doubt, that many firms have not got sufficient resources to conduct research in their own premises. This need not, however, preclude such firms from participating actively in research work as they have the alternative of assisting in the financing of research at educational establishments, either individually or in co-operation with other firms. To encourage this, provision was made in the Finance Act, 1957, for certain tax concessions in respect of covenanted annual payments to universities and colleges in the State for research purposes. It is hoped that this provision and the example now being set by two such important industrial organisations as Bord na Móna and Messrs. Guinness will encourage other firms to consider undertaking similar co-operative ventures.

Messrs. Guinness have at all times taken a sympathetic interest in the development of our peat resources and, as the House is aware, they have already undertaken to lend £500,000 to the board towards the cost of setting up the first briquetting factory at Boora, County Offaly. The new development now proposed is but another example of the practical way in which the company is prepared to co-operate with one of our most important national undertakings and I should like to take this opportunity of again expressing the Government's appreciation for their action.

The initial cost of the establishment of the proposed chair is estimated at £10,000 and the cost of maintenance and administration at about £6,000 per annum. It is the intention that the expenditure involved will be borne equally by the board and the company. As there is no doubt whatever that this money will be well spent, I confidently recommend this Bill for the approval of the House.

Mr. Cosgrave

I think there will be general agreement that this Bill will be welcomed by everybody, not alone in this House but outside it. The gratitude which the Minister has expressed to Messrs. Guinness has been expressed on previous occasions for their generosity in providing a sum of £500,000 for the erection of the two briquetting factories. That was another example of the interest which this firm has displayed over a number of years in the development of the country. It is a great firm with a great record of achievement and the work of the whole undertaking of Messrs. Guinness has always been characterised by an interest in the welfare, not only of the country but of the employees of the firm. This decision to join with Bord na Móna is a further example of the firm's interest in the welfare of the country.

The only question I should like to put to the Minister in the matter is whether it would not be better for other State companies interested in scientific and industrial problems to combine together and deal with this matter on a wider basis. It may be, as the Minister has said, that this question of the scientific examination of microbiology is specialised and for that reason that Bord na Móna, in conjunction with Messrs. Guinness and the university, are obliged to consider it themselves.

On the other hand, it seems that with the wide field and great scope for research in this country, bodies like the E.S.B., the Sugar Company and Bord na Móna, in conjunction with the universities, could combine to consider the question on a wider basis and should pool their resources, at least pool their resources from the point of view of providing a share of the funds for scientific research. This is an age in which science is occupying the minds, not only of companies of this sort, but of people in universities, schools, colleges and so forth. The remarkable steps which scientific developments and advancements have made in the last couple of decades is indicative of the great necessity for further development here.

I think it is generally agreed that research, scientific development and technical training in this country are far behind, principally because of lack of funds. On the other hand, those of our scientists and technicians who have been trained can more than hold their own with technicians and scientists from other countries. For that reason, it is desirable to combine the efforts of the State bodies principally concerned with this sort of development. I can see that there are other State companies which have not the same deep interest in scientific development, but the ones which I have mentioned, in conjunction with the university authorities, should be permitted to take part in this new development, with the co-operation, not only of the Minister's Department but of the Department of Education.

The common criticism expressed about scientific training in this country is the lack of funds to provide the very expensive equipment. The provision of scientific equipment is always expensive, but now, with the rapid changes and great developments elsewhere, the demands are far greater than we here are in a position to meet. It is for that reason that I believe a good case can be made for a joint effort. It may be that specialised consideration would have to be given to the problem of peat development which has been mentioned. Probably that problem affects only Bord na Móna, but it might have a bearing on agricultural development, on forestry and on other problems of that sort.

In that connection, the establishment of the agricultural institute offers further scope for a general pooling of resources and some unification of direction, in this whole problem, with the universities, State bodies, the Departments of Industry and Commerce, of Education, of Agriculture and possibly the Industrial Research and Standards Institute. Though all these different bodies indicate the diversity of the problem, at the same time they emphasise its wide ramifications and the importance of utilising the combined resources of all these various institutions further to develop and expand the scientific and technical training, which is so important if we are to compete on anything like comparable terms with other countries.

There is no doubt that those of our people who have been trained as engineers, scientists and technicians, when they go abroad, either on postgraduate courses or to appointments with companies or universities, have in many cases more than held their own with technicians and scientists from other countries. However the complaint always is that, because of a general lack of facilities—a lack of finance and consequent lack of suitable equipment—they are at a disadvantage initially in training, and in the provision of the facilities which research students and research scientists, technicians and engineers have in other places.

It is for that reason that the only complaint I have to make about this approach is that it seems to be piecemeal. It would seem to be possible to get the same advantage for Bord na Móna in co-operation with Messrs. Guinness and the universities, by combining this effort with a joint approach by all the bodies I have mentioned who are interested in it, and by utilising the proposals to the best advantage of all concerned.

Mr. Norton

I welcome this Bill as another step forward in the progress of our peat production industry. It is a notorious fact that this country is extremely backward in the field of scientific and industrial research. Anything, therefore, that helps to promote our advances into these sadly-neglected activities has everything to commend it. Unfortunately, as Deputy Cosgrave said, our students have not the facilities for research that are available elsewhere. Consequently, many of our industries, and many of our infant industries which have a considerable potential, are handicapped because of the fact that our technicians and engineers here have not access to the sources of information and the results of researches which have been substantially financed in other countries. Therefore, I think the joint action of the Guinness firm and Bord na Móna in promoting these researches into microbiology in relation to our peat production industry is a commendable public activity. It is one further piece of evidence of the genuine interest of the Guinness firm in helping to aid our industrial development here.

When I was Minister for Industry and Commerce in 1956, the Guinness firm, at a time when it was extremely difficult to secure money to finance State-sponsored bodies and other desirable public projects, came forward with an offer to lend £500,000 to Bord na Móna for the purpose of aiding in the development of the two new briquetting factories which Bord na Móna at that time were authorised to construct. I must say that, in a period which was marked by many depressing factors, the public-spirited action of the Guinness firm on that occasion was something which was praiseworthy and well worth note as evidence of the public spirit of that firm, and their further advance, in conjunction with Bord na Móna, into a field of research calculated to aid Bord na Móna is another commendable example of the same public spirit.

I should like to take advantage of the occasion to say that I think that anything that helps to aid Bord na Móna to make a still greater success of the turf production industry is highly commendable. Bord na Móna is a first-class State-sponsored body and, if one were to strike out from our national activities all that has been done by Bord na Móna over the past 25 years, one would find a very substantial gap in our national productivity and in the development of our industrial possibilities. Bord na Móna, in my view, have done a first-class job. They have not only transformed the resources of this country and made them a source of industries where there was previously waste and unwanted lands, but, in the process of doing that, they have provided a very substantial measure of employment.

Approximately 6,000 to about 7,000 persons per year find employment with Bord na Móna in the areas where there is no agricultural land which could offer employment, and where there are no industries which could provide employment for those who live in the bog areas. Therefore, I think the House, as occasion offers, ought to mark its commendation of the excellent work Bord na Móna has done, not only from the point of view of developing our peat resources, and to that extent rendering us proportionately independent of foreign fuel supplies, but in providing a substantial measure of employment and, at the same time, adding to the national wealth.

Private enterprise could never have done what Bord na Móna have done. When one remembers that there is probably £17,000,000 of public money invested in Bord na Móna, the immensity of the enterprise at once becomes obvious. Private enterprise could never have raised a sum of money such as that for the purpose of developing our peat resources, and the fact the State has been able to do it through the medium of Bord na Móna shows the desirability of using in such circumstances the resources of public organisations to do what, for a variety of reasons, the private sector of the economy is unable to do.

I should like, therefore, to conclude by taking advantage of this Bill to commend the directors, the management and all the staff of Bord na Móna for the excellent job which they are doing in the national interest. I should like them to feel, as I am sure the House would like them to feel, that their work in that respect has the warm approval of the House and that the House has never shown itself in any way unwilling or reluctant to provide the necessary funds to enable Bord na Móna to carry on the excellent work they are doing in the national interest.

Seán Mac Carthaigh

Go deimhin, tá áthas agus lúthgháir orainn go léir go bhfuil an Bille seo ós cóir an Tí fe lathair. Is maith an rud é go mbeidh an ceangal seo idir an Ollscoil Náisiúnta agus Bord na Móna sa ghluaiseacht seo ar leas na tíre agus, go deimhin, támuid cinnte go dtiocaidh toradh maith as.

I should like to say how pleased we are that this Bill is before the House. This linking of industrial research with universities is a development which is likely to lead to excellent results for the country.

In University College, Cork, over the past 12 months, a fund has been accumulated for industrial research. Certain firms there have given donations to the president for the same purpose. I am very glad that the Minister has mentioned that this is specific work. The effort in University College, Cork, has not yet been concentrated to that extent. The result is, of course, that when the various scientific faculties in the college look for funds for equipment for industrial research, there is a danger, perhaps, that the funds may be decimated without helping the solution of a specific problem. However, when the matter has been fully examined by the interests concerned, by the various firms and by the university authorities, I am sure there can be research on specific lines in regard to particular problems which will bring good results to the country. The whole idea is an excellent and admirable one and I hope that other firms will follow the good example.

Mr. Moloney

I welcome the introduction of this Bill. I regard it as a very definite step forward. Most Deputies will agree that the first corner has been turned very successfully, so far as Bord na Móna is concerned. The first stage of their activities was confined to the production of turf and briquettes from ordinary peat. This Bill is important because so far we have not been able to exploit with any degree of success the by-products of peat. When Bord na Móna entered into turf production, there was no previous experience of turf production on a commercial basis and we depended a good deal in those days on co-operation from abroad, notably from Germany and later from Russia. Prior to World War II, there were a few technical engineers and scientists from Germany on the technical staff of Bord na Móna. Unfortunately, at the outbreak of war, they were recalled to service in the German forces. That made the position rather difficult for Bord na Móna. Happily, they undertook the task with confidence and determination and we are very glad to be able to congratulate them on the splendid measure of success they achieved. At that time, their main line of activity was the production of turf for fuel during the emergency.

At a later date, Messrs. Guinness contributed to a fund to finance Bord na Móna in the matter of research in connection with the manufacture of briquettes. That was the first time that Bord na Móna got any real opportunity to enter into the enterprise we are now discussing. Messrs. Guinness's offer at that time was the most important contribution to research that Bord na Móna had received since its formation. I am very glad that Deputies on all sides of the House have paid particular tribute to Messrs. Guinness for that very noble gesture. It was a public-spirited patriotic act and we could never be grateful enough to the firm for their co-operation.

The Bill is very desirable at this stage because it is important that by-products should be developed as much as possible. I have in mind one particular by-product, namely, wax. I understand that some years prior to the outbreak of World War II, a research laboratory attached to University College, Cork, made investigations in a number of bogs in southern counties, including a bog in my constituency, Lyracrompane. Investigations were made over a rather protracted period and I understand that satisfactory evidence was forthcoming that the type of raw peat available in that area was suitable for the production of wax. For some reason, no progress has been made in this matter in recent years. Perhaps that is due to the absence of technical research, which has been referred to by a previous speaker. I hope that the Bill will enable Bord na Móna to set up the necessary machinery to proceed without delay on the issue that I have referred to.

In connection with the establishment of chairs and lectureships, perhaps the Minister may be able to tell me if the appointments will be made through the Local Appointments Commissioners or otherwise. I am quite sure that the usual machinery for filling such important posts will be availed of, but the Bill does not indicate the manner in which the posts will be filled and I should be very grateful if the Minister would give us some idea on that matter, when concluding.

Mr. S. Lemass

With regard to appointments to the professorship of industrial microbiology, a notice inviting suitably qualified applicants will be issued and I understand the appointment will be made by the university authorities. General approval has been expressed here of the public-spirited action of Messrs. Arthur Guinness— and, in that connection, I should make special mention of the firm's managing director, Sir Hugh Beaver—which is fully justified and which will, I hope, encourage other firms to consider similar action.

The efficiency of turf has already been well established as a fuel for the production of electricity and for use in industry. Investigations are at present proceeding into the possibility of utilising turf in the production of nitrogenous fertilisers. In addition, as was recently announced in the newspapers, the question of examining the technical problems associated with the production of town gas from peat is under examination. These developments, which would necessarily be of a large-scale character, could be carried on only on extensive tracts of bogland.

For some time past, Bord na Móna has been considering the question of extending its operations to smaller bogs which, as Deputies know, contain by far the greater part of the peat resources of the country. The prospects of profitable operations on these smaller bogs with the methods and machines now available for the production of the conventional type of peat products are somewhat doubtful and, therefore, research into non-conventional fields, which it is proposed to carry out through the instrumentality of this Chair in Industrial Microbiology, may indicate the possibility of producing hitherto unknown or undeveloped high-grade peat products and may provide a better solution to the commercial development of our western blanket and hill bogs.

Deputy Cosgrave spoke about the possibility of other State companies engaging in research activities. He will, of course, be aware that the Sugar Company have already embarked upon a large-scale practical experiment in the cultivation of peat bogs. Most of their research activity has, however, been directed towards practical problems associated with their own operations. They have, as Deputies know, been particularly successful in the development of a peat harvesting machine for which, indeed, some export trade has been secured because of its suitability for that operation.

The E.S.B. have available to them information regarding technological developments all over the world and, while they themselves do not carry on research activities in the ordinary sense of the term, nevertheless they regularly send their engineers abroad to keep them in touch with developments in other countries.

The Institute of Industrial Research has as one of its main functions the keeping of an up-to-date library of technical information and of informing industrial firms of developments which have taken place.

I should not wish to comment upon Deputy Cosgrave's observations regarding the facilities available for training in research work in our universities. That is, perhaps, somewhat outside my sphere, but there is no doubt that we cannot but gain by any improvement in these facilities.

Deputy Norton paid a well-deserved tribute to Bord na Móna, whose work has converted what were previously the most desolate and depressing areas in the country into great centres of industrial activity. I fully agree with him that that could never have been done by private enterprise. Indeed, it is my hope that I may find other fields of equal importance for productive public enterprise. The future progress of the country must to a great extent depend upon other activities of the same character organised through public enterprise. In that connection, I find myself in complete agreement with the views expressed by Deputy Norton.

Question put and agreed to.

Bill put through Committee, reported without amendment, received for final consideration and passed.