Vol. 170 No. 4
I move:—
That a sum not exceeding £23,310 be granted to complete the sum necessary to defray the Charge which will come in course of payment during the year ending on the 31st day of March, 1959, for the Salaries and Expenses of the Office of the Comptroller and Auditor General (No. 1 of 1923).
Would the Minister please tell us the companies in relation to which the Comptroller and Auditor General Acts?
There is rather a formidable list of such companies. He does all the departmental accounts, and so on, as Deputies are aware. As well as that, there are: Woods, Forests and Land Revenues Account; National Loan Sinking Funds; Escheated Estates Fund; Deposit Moneys Investment Account; Purchase Annuities Fund; Saving Certificates Reserve Fund; Sundry Moneys Deposit Account; Supplementary Unemployment Fund Investment Account; German Debts Collection; Surplus Assets of Dissolved Loan Fund Societies; Contingency Fund Deposit Account; General Cattle Diseases Fund; Registration Council Fund; Cumann Parlaiminteach na hÉireann; Technical Assistance Counterpart Account.
The information I really wanted was in connection with State-sponsored companies.
There are also the following. Perhaps I should, first of all, give this list:—
Irish Shipping Limited; Irish Assurance Company Limited; Ceimicí Teo.; Fuel Importers (Eire) Limited; Aer Lingus Teo.; Aer Linte Teo.; Aer Rianta Teo.; National Stud Company, Limited; Tea Importers Limited; Grain Importers, Limited; Irish Steel Holdings, Limited; Córas Tráchtála, Teo.; Dundalk Engineering Works; Bord na Móna; Shannon Airport Sales and Catering and Passenger Hostels Accounts; Shannon Airport Development Authority; Army Canteen Board; Irish Church Temporalities Fund; Road Fund; Local Loans Fund; Post Office Savings Bank Fund.
It looks like a closed shop.
There are also:—
Central Bank Accounts; Butter Marketing Committee Accounts; Bord Fáilte Accounts; Industrial Development Authority; An Comhairle Ealaíon (Arts Council); An Fóras Tionscal; Universities Accounts.
I want to know about the £6,120 appropriations-in-aid audit fees. Does that come from the State companies the Minister has mentioned?
All these companies pay a fee.
From the list the Minister has read out, one would think there would be more than that coming in.
Some are what might be regarded as departmental accounts— Land Bond Fund, and so on. There would be none from these, for example.
Does the Minister not think that the functions of an auditor in relation to Government funds and the functions of an auditor in relation to trading companies are entirely different? In relation to Government funds, the business of the auditor is purely to see that the funds are paid out only under the authority of the Oireachtas and, in particular, of the Dáil—and, of course, to ensure that the moneys are not appropriated in any improper respect.
A trading company auditor, however, can give very valuable advisory services, apart from actual auditing. Because of such an auditor's wide connection with other companies, he is able to offer assistance to the company in relation to their methods. I cannot see how the two things can, therefore, be combined unless the Minister makes the case to me that one section of the Comptroller and Auditor General's staff deals solely with company accounts and the other section deals solely with public accounts.
I believe that is a fact. I believe he has men trained to advise companies in relation to ordinary business matters, just as the Deputy has described the auditor. There has been no uniform practice. Some companies employ outside auditors and some employ the Comptroller and Auditor General. There has never been any sort of a definite line laid down, I am afraid.
