Skip to main content
Normal View

Dáil Éireann debate -
Thursday, 30 Oct 1958

Vol. 171 No. 3

Unemployment and Emigration: Motion of No Confidence (Resumed).

The following motion was moved by Deputy Norton on 29th October, 1958:—
That, in view of the continued high level of unemployment and emigration and the failure of the Government to fulfil the promises made at the last general election that they would deal effectively with these problems, the Dáil has no confidence in the Government.
Debate resumed on the following amendment thereto:—
After "emigration" in the first line, to insert "and the acute problems of those engaged in agriculture, business and industry, which have contributed to this situation. —(Deputies Dillon and Cosgrave.)

Before questions, I was pointing out that as a result of a very comprehensive survey which had been made of the whole field of our economy and a very thorough study based on that survey, the Government had come to a decision on a programme envisaging public capital investment on an average of about £44,000,000 yearly. I do not think it would be desirable to go into this matter piecemeal. The programme will be published in a White Paper soon. If the Dáil requires to discuss it, an opportunity for doing that can be given.

I mentioned the £44,000,000 because apparently there have been some misunderstandings about some preliminary statements made. On the average, our present expenditure is about £40,000,000 per year. Capital investment expenditure will taper off and will on average over the next five years amount to less than the £40,000,000. It would come down to something about £33,500,000 per year.

Looking over the whole situation, seeing the desirability of trying to foster and increase production and of ensuring that capital investment is directed as far as possible towards that end, the programme has been worked out. As I say, I could go into it but I feel it would not be desirable to do so. It would be much better to have the whole thing before the Dáil if there is to be a proper discussion.

I would simply end by just answering the question asked by Deputy Lynch: "Do we want production or not?" The Deputy said he had got no answer to that question and I interrupted him. He did not seem to like my doing so and I am sorry. Perhaps I should not have done so. The answer is that we do, of course. We want to increase production but we want to increase production at a diminishing cost per unit of production in order that the goods, the tilings we want to sell, in particular in foreign markets, would be produced at competitive prices. The question is—how are we going to reduce our costs of production in order to produce so efficiently that our goods can be sold competitively? I do not think there is anything further I should say.

The Taoiseach made the claim that even during the time of the inter-Party Government emigration went on. When I suggested to him that during the first period of inter-Party Government emigration had ceased he seemed to disagree.

Might I say that I did not mention the inter-Party Government? I said "the Opposition" which went back over a much longer period than that.

I am speaking about the period 1948 to 1951. I want to remind the Taoiseach that the official figures show that for the first time since the great exodus began during the famine years 100 years ago, the population of the country slightly increased and emigration almost came to a halt—

221,000 in three years.

——as a result of three years of inter-Party Government. Our Government succeeded during that period, in practically bringing emigration to a standstill. That is so. If the Taoiseach goes to the trouble of getting the figures—

I know that whole question very much better than the Deputy, I would swear.

I am going by the official figures. If the Taoiseach takes it on himself to say they are not correct, I should like to hear his explanation of them. During that period we brought about a wave of prosperity in the country to which the people are looking back now with longing and wondering will it ever come again. I know the Taoiseach's game, his method of talking in trying to get support. He went down to Belmullet, and seeing that this motion is dealing with the whole problem of employment and promises of employment, it might be no harm to remind the Taoiseach of some of the promises he made. One of these was that he would not do away with the food subsidies and increase food prices—

Would the Deputy be good enough to quote? If he wants to remind me of promises, will he just quote what I said?

I am telling the Taoiseach what he said in my constituency.

Will the Deputy quote?

I will not go word-splitting or quibbling. I will just remind the Taoiseach of the promises he made in my constituency.

Of a statement I made?

Repeat it.

That the food subsidies would not go.

That is not the statement I made.

That is not quoted.

They never do what they say they will do.

If the Taoiseach was misquoted in the papers the next day, that is not my fault. Why did he not correct it?

Quote the paper.

I am quoting it.

The Deputy is not.

I am quoting what the Irish Press said.

The Deputy is not quoting the paper.

I am quoting what the Taoiseach said——

——that if Fianna Fáil came back to power the food subsidies would not go.

That is not the quotation.

It is the quotation.

It is not the quotation.

I give way to the Taoiseach, but if he gets a copy of the paper——

The Deputy said he was quoting.

On a point of order, is it not a rule of this House that when a speaker attributes a statement to another speaker and when he is asked for the quotation he must give the actual context?

If a Deputy to whom a statement is attributed denies that statement, the usual thing is for the Deputy making the statement to withdraw it.

If the Parliamentary Secretary is so sure I am wrong, let him go out and get the quotation.

The Taoiseach said he did not make the statement.

The Taoiseach has contradicted me and you should get him to withdraw, Sir.

I asked the Deputy to give the quotation.

I am quoting it.

On a point of Order, Sir, if a Deputy quotes something which another Deputy said in his presence, is he himself not the authority, and not the statement?

The Deputy did not say it that way.

If a Deputy to whom a statement is attributed denies that statement, then the Deputy making the charge withdraws his statement.

The Deputy should withdraw his statement.

In regard to Deputy Lemass's statement and the promise he made the other day about the £220,000,000, would the Taoiseach tell us when will that be contradicted and how soon?

The Deputy should withdraw what he said.

This is the famous £100,000,000 plan. On the same night as the Taoiseach was in Belmullet making his statement, Deputy Lemass, as he then was, was in Waterford promising £100,000,000 that would end unemployment and help to bring the emigrants back. I am surprised that the Taoiseach did not elaborate on the £220,000,000 which the Minister has now, or where is it? I listened to the Minister for Local Government, bewailing the fact that he had no money for the Local Authorities (Works) Act, no money to employ county council workers in making roads. What is the explanation, or are the Minister's words to the Fianna Fáil Árd Fheis just another piece of gigantic bluff?

Amongst some of the savage tribes in Africa, there is one tribe which is supposed to have the secret of some magic herb which, when ground into powder, is capable of reducing the natives to some kind of dancing frenzy. I think the Minister must have had some of that magic powder to throw on the delegates at the Árd Fheis, so that they might dance home with joy about the £220,000,000 they have to spend.

If I might refer for a moment to the famous quotation which the Taoiseach said he did not make, he said: "You know the record of Fianna Fáil in the past; you know that we have never done the things they said we would do; they have told you that you would be paying more for bread; we did not cut the food subsidies all out before, because we did not want the price of bread, so important an article of diet for the poor people, to be increased." Is the Taoiseach satisfied now? Of course, he can afford to laugh now, after raising the cost of living on the workingman and the poor man by 11 points in a very short time.

He promised the sun, moon and stars.

The proof of the Minister's piece of bluff the other day is that he has not got the £220,000,000 and he has not the foggiest notion of getting it or of trying to provide it. The Taoiseach knows very well that, if the Minister for Industry and Commerce does get it, he will gobble it all up and no other Minister will get a penny of it.

Is it coming from the same place as the £100,000,000?

The Taoiseach can afford to laugh now. It is very seldom we get anything but a bleak, wintry smile from him, and he seems to be all the time steeped in gloom, whatever the cause of it. He is bewailing the damage he says the inter-Party Government did. He has been there now in that seat, with full and complete power, for a year and eight months. That is quite long enough to square up any mess, if any such mess was left.

What is the record? When we came into the House yesterday, there was no business but five Bills by the Minister for Industry and Commerce—not one word about employment or the 60,000 who left our shores since this time last year. There was not one word about getting them home. No effort was made to keep our young people at home.

Coupled with that, here are some of the things that have been done— all helping to produce more emigration. The farm buildings scheme, the cow byre grants, were cut by £140,000. That was done a full year after Fianna Fáil came into power. The ground limestone scheme was cut by £220,000. How will that help to stem emigration or provide employment or increase production "at a lower cost per unit", as the Taoiseach said a moment ago?

More was provided by the Exchequer this year than last year.

For what?

Not at all.

Do not forget the Marshall Aid grants.

Would the Taoiseach turn to sub-head M (8) of the Agriculture Estimate?

I know. The Marshall Aid moneys were no longer available for this purpose and more had to be provided from the Exchequer.

I am talking of a cut in one of the most useful things in the country, so let the Taoiseach not draw in Marshall Aid. The American Government dealt with us very kindly and generously in that respect. The Fianna Fáil Government cut it by £220,000 in one sub-head alone, ground limestone. I want to know why they cut housing. The Minister for Local Government boasted of all the housing activities, but they cut it by £700,000 and contributed largely to emigration and unemployment. They cut the housing grants to local authorities by £350,000. They cut the Local Authorities (Works) Act out completely, £350,000. Perhaps that was Marshall Aid or was it the Coalition that did it?

The Taoiseach is a man of responsibility and with a good deal of experience behind him. It is time he stopped bluffing the people, as at present they are in splits of laughter every time they hear this fellow known as the Taoiseach telling them about all the damage the inter-Party Government did. In their hearts, the people are longing for the conditions they had under that Government. At the very least, they could live cheaply then, they had plenty of work, emigration was practically at a standstill, there were fairly decent prices for everything and production was going up. If the Taoiseach wants to stem emigration and unemployment, why did he remove the import levies we put on luxury goods? It was a fairly unpopular thing to do with a certain section of the community. I tell him straight that his Government seem to be a Government for the luxury people.

That was said of the tourist trade also.

In what way did the import levies hit the tourist trade?

I am saying that you also said that the tourist trade, which we were developing, was simply for spivs.

I beg the Taoiseach's pardon. I did not mention the tourist trade at all.

No, the Deputy did not, but he talked about luxury in the same strain.

I am talking about the time our balance of trade was going into disequilibrium, I am talking of the measures our Government took then to bring that right. One of the measures was the import levies on certain luxury goods. It was designed completely to stop the wealthy people from upsetting the balance of trade and our relations with other countries, to stop wealthy people from damaging the future of the country. These people were paying over £3,700,000 in import levies for those goods. Why did the Taoiseach remove them when he came into power? Why did the Taoiseach remove that when he came into power and why, at the same time, did he allow the man who was able to pay £2,000 for a luxury motor-car to buy it £400 cheaper? Why, at the same time, did he raise the cost of the working man's bread from 9d. to 1/1 and our price of butter from 2/10 a lb. to 4/4? Let the Taoiseach explain these things.

I want to go into some more of the promises made during the election. It was said that the price of wheat would be increased and now the Government action has probably killed wheat-growing in this country, a very useful industry to the farmers and a very useful sideline. It was the same in regard to milk. The whisper was spread in every one of the Twenty-Six Counties that if Fianna Fáil got back into office the price of milk would be increased. What have they done with the Milk Costings Report?

This motion deals entirely with the broken promises of Fianna Fáil and asks this House to censure the Government for their failure to fulfil these promises. I agree wholeheartedly with the motion because never was a greater fraud perpetrated on an unsuspecting public simply because the Taoiseach had two things at his command. One was a daily newspaper going into every town and village which was able to gull the people up to the two eyes.

I do not want to interrupt the Deputy but he seems to be widening the scope of this motion to a greater extent than any other Deputy. The motion refers to the high level of unemployment and emigration.

Yes, and the failure of the Government to fulfil the promises made at the last general election.

It deals with the high level of unemployment and emigration and the problems of those engaged in agriculture, business and industry.

Yes, but does the motion not continue: "emigration and the failure of the Government to fulfil promises made at the last general election"?

Of course.

There is one thing which I always try to do in this House and that is not to go outside the scope of a debate.

I am trying to help the Deputy in that good intention.

I submit I have not gone outside it. I am talking about all the promises which Fianna Fáil made. Now the Minister for Industry and Commerce is making promises about £220,000,000. Where is that money and, if the Government has it at its disposal to check unemployment and to check emigration, why is it not distributed to some of the other Ministries? Pull it out in the open. The truth of the matter is that that £220,000,000 is not in existence. Is it not quite true that all that Deputy Lemass is doing is trying to make a build-up, so that in three or five years' time he can say that he spent so much money? Why not take the £110,000,000 which is in the Book of Estimates each year and say at the end of five years he spent £550,000,000?

Does the Minister for Industry and Commerce think that he can fool this House in the terms he expressed at the Fianna Fáil Árd Fheis or that he can fool the people in the same way? He is very far out. I take trouble to explain the fraud in the Minister's speech. I shall now give a quotation on unemployment from the Connacht Tribune——

A good paper.

——of October 28th.

The quotation is:

"The dire need for remunerative employment in Claddaghduff-Cleggan-Aughris districts was made painfully evident on Monday last when a Land Commission ganger arrived in Aughrismore to commence work on a scheme for the readjustment of holdings in the area.

Shortly after dawn men began to gather in search of work. Some of them were fathers of large families; many had not earned a penny for months; others were victims of the bad fishing season; all looked anxious as the crowd continued to gather.

Climax was reached when the ganger arrived and announced that he could only employ eight men— immediate tenants to get preference."

But it is all right so long as the Taoiseach has £78,000 for a referendum.

"All the others returned home disappointed and without hope. It is thought that something should be done to save those men and their families from starvation."

There is no use talking to the present Government——

——because they appear to adopt the attitude that to get into power is the main policy of the Party. To keep in as long as they can and then to laugh at the fools who elected them is the next policy.

The Local Authorities (Works) Act has gone. It was very valuable for giving employment. In regard to land reclamation will the Taoiseach deny that the numbers employed on the land project has dropped by 620 men since the present Government came into power?

He does not know.

Bog development work has gone and the double byre grants have gone. All that has contributed very largely to steep unemployment. Arterial drainage—

——has also gone.

I cannot allow this duet to continue any longer. Deputy Donnellan must allow Deputy Blowick to make his speech without interruption.

Deputy Bartley announced in Galway, beside his own constituency, that the infamous Coalition Government had abandoned the River Suck project which was high on their priority list. There was a question here the other day about some other river and work on the Moy was to be started two years ago.

Deputy Donnellan will have to cease interrupting or leave the House. I cannot allow the rules of the House to be flouted in this way.

It will not happen again.

The price of sheep and cattle dropped as a result of two things, Fianna Fáil's mismanagement and the very bad summer we had. Does the Government realise the position facing farmers, particularly small farmers? I do not think they do. I think all of us here who are trying to impress on the Taoiseach, and on the Government, the plight of the large majority of the people, are only wasting our breath. Can the Taoiseach tell us why the Land Commission has virtually folded up? Their work was quite a good source of employment in the winter months in areas like those mentioned in my quotation from the Connacht Tribune of October 28th.

Does the Taoiseach think that it is for their own pleasure that the youth are emigrating? He knows it is because of their failure to find employment at home, I do not care if that employment is for wages or self-employment on the land. Land reclamation, forestry, the Local Authorities (Works) Act, and arterial drainage should be given first priority by the Government. Until that is done there is no use in the Taoiseach going around bleating that all these faults can be laid at the door of the inter-Party Government. He can test the people any time he likes. If the people had a choice now between the inter-Party Government and the Fianna Fáil Government I know what the answer would be.

As there are a number of other Deputies to speak I shall try to be as brief as possible. First of all, the Minister for Agriculture, speaking here last night, complained of Deputies wasting so much time in giving quotations from speeches. I should like the Minister for Agriculture, and many other members of his Party, to remember the old saying that those who preach the Gospel should live by the Gospel because nobody has yet come up to the same level with quotations as Deputy Smith. We still have the democratic right of criticising the Taoiseach and the Fianna Fáil Government.

The Minister for Health spoke here last night and his remarks were very interesting. It struck me that he was adopting the line of a famous Premier of a country to the east of this country who apparently in trying to woo the national soldiers in Formosa offered sweetcake. Last night the Minister for Health seemed to spend all his time praising some members from the Opposition and apparently going so far as to say that he considered it audacious that the Labour Party should introduce this motion. It is well that we are still able to take advantage of our position in the House to draw attention to the attitude of the Taoiseach, particularly here to-day, breaking his sides laughing——

I laughed at the Deputy who was making ridiculous statements.

The Taoiseach laughed when he thought his statement made at Bellmullet could not be quoted.

I laughed at the ridiculous statements.

Unfortunately, when it was quoted, the smile went off his face very quickly. Last night, the Minister for Health tried to present the picture here that everything in the garden was so much more rosy than it had been for the last few years. Had that been true, there would have been no need for this motion, but even the Taoiseach, great statistician as he may be, cannot deny the fact that no matter how the figures are jumbled or mixed up, the cost of living is higher now by 11 points.

We condemn the Government in view of that, and in view of the fact that, in the past eight or nine months, the Government, through their activities and by various means, went so far, in spite of the increase in the cost of living, as to deprive—until they found it was too dangerous to go further—certain sections of the community of the extra 10/- a week salary increase to which they were entitled and which they ultimately had to get in spite of the Government.

I have no intention, in the time allowed, of going into the details of departmental matters, but I believe it is essential, in view of the statements made by the Minister for Health last night, that the House should know that that Department under the present Minister has completely cut out the allocations to the local health authorities for such important buildings as dispensaries. Apparently, despite the fact that I have read that there is £220,000,000 floating around, the same Minister refused an increase to two farm workers employed at Youghal Mental Hospital. Beyond that I do not intend to go. In spite of the smoke-screen put up, I think that it is well that people should know that much could have been said at the Fianna Fáil Ard Fheis had the delegates been allowed to say it, but, naturally, the Ministers would much prefer that these things be left unsaid.

The Minister for Local Government spoke at great length here to-day and also during the week at his Party's conference and he made a very interesting statement at the conference regarding grants for reconstructed houses. Apparently applications are not coming in as fast as he would wish. He ended by saying that if these facilities were not being availed of, it looked as if the increased grants would not be necessary. Unemployment is caused here to a great extent through inactivity in the building trade and this talk about the proposed increases in reconstruction grants is all eyewash because in the Department presided over by the Minister, they are completely underestimating the cost of reconstruction, which means that nobody can hope to get to the present maximum not to mention qualifying for the increase of £20 which is being dangled before them. It is not real. By underestimating, this Government, through the Minister for Local Government and his Department, are choking the activities and the initiative of the building trade.

To that I can add that a prominent member of the Taoiseach's Party said openly in Cork that it was his personal conviction that because of underestimating people were not in a position to spend money and thereby give employment in the repair of houses.

Other members have spoken about the Local Authorities (Works) Act. I shall not repeat their remarks, except to say that I think the line taken by the Minister for Local Government was unique. The Act is on the Statute Book and, thanks be to God, that happened during the period of office of a Labour Minister, the late Deputy Murphy, God rest his soul, and no thanks to the present Taoiseach and his Party. But now a Fianna Fáil Minister has the audacity to tell us that it is on the Statute Book and if the local authorities want to spend money under it, they can do so. It was very nice of him to make such an offer, realising as we do that there is £220,000,000 floating around. Yet, in Cork or Donegal, local authorities, under the present administration, cannot hope to get one brass farthing to provide work for men, particularly in winter-time. "Slush money" was the term used by the Minister for Health last night in condemning the Local Authorities (Works) Act, but that "slush money" was welcome in many a home in County Cork and many other counties. It was far better to have it than to be forced to go to the employment exchange or to the home assistance officer. It has not been reduced—it has been wiped out through the activities of the Government.

With all those millions floating around, would the Taoiseach or any member of his Party explain why it is that during the debate at the Party conference during the week, when members from various parts of the country—and I give them full credit for it—made a recommendation for an increase in the old age pensions, according to Press reports, the Parliamentary Secretary pointed out that it would be terribly dangerous and it would be unfair to ask the Government to give 1/- a week increase because the total cost, as he pointed out—I have the actual figure given— would amount to £426,000 per annum. They could not afford to give the people over 70 £426,000 a year, even though it would only mean 1/- per person. Deputy Blowick was right when he said of the £220,000,000 that it seems it will go to nobody except the Minister for Industry and Commerce. Ultimately, of course, we know it will go nowhere.

The main point I wish to touch upon in relation to the Labour Party motion is the question of financial policy. How often have we heard the Taoiseach bemoaning the dangers of anyone making what might seem a revolutionary suggestion in relation to our present monetary system? Of course we know that, when in opposition, the Tánaiste did make such statements, statements which were more or less in accordance with Labour Party policy but that was when he was in opposition. What does he say now about the £220,000,000 he is going to find during five years which will come, automatically, as Deputy Norton said yesterday, year by year out of the ordinary accounts? He will provide the money from three different sources: one, the private sector; two, the voluntary repatriation of external assets; and, three, loans.

Will the Taoiseach, or any member of his Cabinet or any one supporting them, say what all the commotion was about and why they were attacking the previous Government about the voluntary repatriation of external assets when they are going to do it themselves? Is it not about time they made some attempt to be sincere about their policy? Will the Minister for Health say he agrees with this voluntary repatriation of external assets? How does it fit in with the views expressed by the Minister for Lands? How often has the Taoiseach spent time explaining the deadly dangers to the economic welfare of the people if they should depend on an inter-Party, or as he may wish to call it, a Coalition Government? Could we have a more complicated coalition of views and individuals than we have, not alone in the Party itself but in the Cabinet?

At least two members of that Party who have already spoken on this motion, the Minister for Health and the Minister for Lands have expressed the most conservative, reactionary views that could be expressed on behalf of their Government; whereas, at the same time, their Tánaiste, the second in command of the ship of State, shows quite clearly that his views on the method of providing this money are completely at variance with those expressed by his colleagues in the Cabinet. This is truly a healthy coalition, truly a mixum-gatherum.

We all received recently a copy of the annual Report of the Central Bank. What strikes me very forcibly now is how it comes in line with what the Taoiseach had been telling us when he interrupted Deputy Lynch here to-day on the question of increased productivity. The Central Bank report issued on 16th May states particularly that the shortage of money does not apply here. That is important, that the wizards of finance upon whose advice the present Government rely to an extraordinary extent should say that the shortage of money does not apply here. I have taken those words from page 32 of this report. Further on, they point out that what is wrong is the failure to apply that money with sufficiently productive effect. That, in my opinion—and it is the opinion of many members of this House—is where the whole problem arises. Apparently we have the money, but we have not the ways wherewith to spend it.

Is it not about time the Government realised that in the fishing industry alone, even in forestry or the improvement of harbour facilities, there is sufficient work which could be considered productive and which could be considered of such importance to the overall economy that the "plenty of money" which is available, according to the returns of the Central Bank, would be made available? Oh, no; it would not suit the Taoiseach; it would not suit the dyed-in-the-wool policy that has been dragged across the floor of this House and across every part of the Twenty-Six Counties. "Live horse and you will get grass" has been their policy. When they are out, they are determined to get in but, when they are in, they produce no results except the words, not the actions, of the Tánaiste. His is the only voice which seems to differ from the other voices in the Government whose policy has not relieved unemployment to the extent that anyone had hoped.

I have not, nor has any other member of the Labour Party, accused them of being drastic in any respect but we have accused them of being careless. We have not come into the House to blow our trumpet about what a Labour Minister for Industry and Commerce did. The Minister for Health expressed bitterness here last night with regard to what might have been established in Dublin in 1937 but for what he termed the opposition of Deputy Norton—the oil refinery. It is not in what might have been established in Dublin in 1937 we are interested; it is what is now in Cork harbour, and good luck to those who have been engaged in any improvement to that important part of our country. If it helps by relieving the unemployment figures in the employment exchanges in those areas, that is what we are interested in.

May I say to the Taoiseach and his Ministers that instead of wishing to have forgotten their statements of the past, they should even at this late stage take into consideration the divergence of views expressed from time to time by the governors of our Central Bank who are advising the Government, and the views of all those in the other banks in the country? On 16th May, last, we were warned in the Central Bank report of the deadly dangers ahead. We were warned of the dangers which would overtake the economy of this country if workers got increases in their wages; yet a few months after that severe warning, a warning accepted by the Fianna Fáil Government at all times, we have the completely opposite action by other banks in the country in regard to credit and in regard to the easing of the credit squeeze.

At no time has there been from the Labour Party any argument or any attempt to expose any weaknesses that may exist in relation to the unfortunate position of unemployed people and people who may have to emigrate. It is far more important to be honest with the people and be sincere in the determination to relieve their difficulties, even if it is by means of a policy as explained by the Tánaiste which may give results, although we do not believe it will. At least it is more important than to come to the House quoting statistics against the Opposition and telling them: "We, the Fianna Fáil Party, are in power and are satisfied." The Taoiseach may be satisfied but the Opposition are not satisfied and condemn the Government for such inactivity in the past year and a half.

As no Independent has yet spoken, I trust I shall have an opportunity to say a few words.

The House has agreed that Deputy Norton be called on to conclude at 4.30 p.m., so that Deputy O'Malley has now ten minutes to speak.

I protest, as an Independent Deputy——

I shall give ten minutes of my time to Deputy Sherwin.

I am very thankful to the Deputy. None of us has spoken, although we represent a considerable body of opinion. I shall be grateful for ten minutes.

I have been in the House since 10.30 this morning. Deputy Sherwin has appeared only in the last hour.

I have been here three hours. I have to earn my living. I do not depend upon what I get here.

The Deputy is a lucky man. It is very difficult to speak from this side of the House when we find that the arguments we expected to have to refute are completely fallacious and fatuous. It is about time certain members of the Opposition realised that when they speak here, there is a responsibility on them, in the first place, to get their facts correct and, secondly, when they do make statements, to be in a position to back them up and, when they make quotations, to be able to give those quotations correctly.

Does that apply to the Taoiseach?

I do not wish to devote any time to Deputy Blowick's meanderings here to-day, but not straying from the motion, I would say that the case for the abolition of the system of P.R. is reinforced, having heard his utterances. I do not think there will be any white smoke puffing up from his chimney after the next election.

Be that as it may. Deputy Blowick waxed very eloquent. He actually crossed swords with the Taoiseach. Back in June, 1957, Deputy Blowick, Leader of the Clann na Talmhan Party, had the audacity to say in this House:—

"Our loans were a success on every occasion. We were quite pleased with them. They were better subscribed to by the public...than any loan Fianna Fáil ever floated.

Our loans were always a roaring success. They were an outstanding success.... We always got the support of the public."

That, of course, is not in accordance, or nearly in accordance, with the facts. In August, 1955, Deputy Sweetman, as Minister for Finance, sought a loan of £20,000,000. The public subscribed £7,650,000. In 1956, he asked for a loan of £12,000,000 at over 5 per cent. and he got barely £10,000,000. When we were in office prior to that, we issued two loans. The first was oversubscribed. The second was almost as successful.

One of the things which has not been stressed or even mentioned by the Opposition—they carefully avoid it— is the hallmark of Fianna Fáil Government since they returned to office 18 months ago. I refer to the restoration of confidence throughout the country. Taking the population as a whole, there is to-day, as compared with the period in office of another Administration, confidence in Government. The people are prepared to invest in Government, irrespective of political considerations.

When we left office in 1954, the country was in a sound financial position. The balance of payments deficit stood at about £5.5 million. When the Coalition Government came into office in 1954, they sought and obtained a loan. As the Taoiseach urged at the time, the finances of the country were sound. I do not wish to go over the sins of commission and omission perpetrated by the Coalition Government, but the Labour Party should remember that when we took over again in 1951, there was a deficit of £61.6 million in the balance of payments. By 1954, we had reduced that deficit to manageable proportions.

There is an interesting tie-up between the imposition of the emergency levies and the financial position of the country, a tie-up which has not been referred to so far by the Labour Party. Our argument in relation to the levies was not that we objected to the levies as such. It was directed towards the delay in taking measures to control the situation. Every member of the Fianna Fáil Party warned the then Government as to what lay ahead, but they were "wasting their sweetness on the desert air."

In 1955, when we went out of office, we had reduced the deficit of £35.5 million in our balance of payments down to £5.4 million. Even with the introduction of the levies by the Coalition Minister for Finance, they only succeeded in reducing an adverse deficit of over £35,000,000 to £14.4 million. The Labour Party ought really to get wise to the position. Deputy Costello boasted on one occasion that his Government had left behind a clean sheet. Evidently the Coalition think that our inheritance of a Budget deficit of £6,000,000, a Book of Estimates which called for an extra £5,000,000—it was not, of course, published at the time the general election took place—and an unprecedented number of unemployed represent a clean sheet, and I make them a present of their own linen. The Labour Party should wake up. They ought to appreciate what the position was.

Deputy Dillon waxed eloquent yesterday on the subject of emigration. I will say for Deputy Dillon that down through the years he has been consistent in his inconsistency. Speaking at a public function in Dublin, this is what he had to say:—

"Thanks be to God..."

—Deputy Dillon always appears to preface his remarks with some pious aspiration to the Almighty, but unfortunately so far his prayers have not been heard—

"...we have some families of 21."—They must be in Belmullet—

"I would rather see the eldest of them married and produce another 21 children and let the other 20 fare forth into the world wherever their fancy brings them. I have not such a horror of emigration as other people."

That, of course, was during a Coalition term in office. We do not deny that in the short time at our disposal we have not cured all our ills or made a completely satisfactory approach towards improving the traumatic condition of unemployment and emigration. In September, 1956, the number of registered unemployed was 51,255. At the latest date available in 1958, the figure stands at 48,041—roughly 3,500 less. That may not be a large decrease. I referred earlier to the legacy we inherited and, because of that legacy, we have not been able to advance with our plans as quickly as we would wish.

Deputy Norton, Leader of the Labour Party, and other speakers, throw scorn on the announcement made by the Minister for Industry and Commerce, at the Fianna Fáil Ard Fheis, with regard to certain proposals involving the expenditure of some £260,000,000. The Minister stated that plans for the proposed expenditure would be presented in the form of a White Paper. The Taoiseach has said that, if the House wishes, it will be afforded an opportunity of discussing the proposals.

When Deputy Norton comes to conclude, it would be well that he should come out into the open. I issue a challenge to him now. He likes a dogmatic "Yes," or "No." Will he agree that on 2nd November, 1956, the Coalition Government decided that food subsidies would be abolished? It should be very easy to answer "Yes" or "No". Deputy Norton can tell us whether they were to be abolished over a period or whether they were not to be abolished at all, but I should be very interested and the country would be very interested to get an answer from the former Tánaiste as to whether or not on November 2nd, 1956, a meeting of the Coalition Cabinet took place and this decision was arrived at in principle.

And, no doubt, the Deputy will apologise.

Do not spoil it. Would the Deputy put down some hard cash to back that statement—not cheques, but hard cash?

The Capital Advisory Committee, which was to advise Deputy Norton on capital investment, had made certain recommendations as well, and these, like the published Estimates, were in the possession of Deputy Norton and the other members of the Coalition Government, but in their journeys throughout the country they were very, very careful indeed to make no reference whatsoever to the recommendations of this committee.

On a point of order, the arrangement was that I would get in at 4.30 p.m. According to the clock, it is just past 4.30 p.m. I undertook, however, to concede ten minutes of my time to reply to Deputy Sherwin, because no Independent was able to get into the debate, but I am not going to give it to the Government, and unless Deputy Sherwin gets in now, Sir, the agreement should be implemented.

The Chair can now call upon Deputy Norton to conclude, but the Chair cannot restrain Deputy O'Malley from proceeding.

Then I am going to conclude, Sir. Does that mean that Deputy Sherwin cannot get the ten minutes I am offering?

If Deputy O'Malley gives way, I will call Deputy Sherwin.

I wish to thank Deputy Norton for letting me in for the ten minutes. It is share and share alike. That is the spirit. The Taoiseach seemed to have a different approach. He is going to keep Deputy Sherwin and other Independents out as far as he can. I do not think it will succeed. I believe there will be a greater number of Independents if the referendum goes through because personality counts in a small area. I want the House to know that I am not anti-Party, that is, I am not anti-Government. We criticise the Government because they are in power. As a member of the Dublin Corporation, I put down a somewhat similar motion attacking the Coalition only two years ago and would do so again, if they were back in power. I want to make my position very clear. I am not speaking for one Party and against another. I am an Independent. Perhaps I am that by nature. Parties do not want me and the same goes for me about Parties.

I maintain that Independents represent a considerable number of people. The results of the recent by-elections prove that. I believe the people will turn to Independents. I want the Taoiseach to think over that. The feeling of the people is expressed by the saying, "A plague on both your houses" because both Parties have let the people down. I will go as far as to say that the Fianna Fáil Party were more brazen in their promises than the other Parties. Perhaps that was due to the fact that they were more cocky because of their strength and because they have three newspapers to shout for them.

What is the motion? It is that the Government failed to redeem their promises and refers to emigation and unemployment. The Taoiseach said that, according to certain statistics, more people came in here in the past year than went out. Surely he knows that people come in here to look around but do not come to stay. They come to visit those they left and to buy cheap porter and get out again. Those who leave stay away for long periods. It is a joke to say that more people came in than went out. As a member of Dublin Corporation, I am aware that within the past couple of years corporation houses have been vacated at the rate of 200 and 300 a year. The tenants are going away.

The Deputy did not hear the little word "net" in my statement.

I am putting forward the facts and it is the Party's idea to cover up. When the Fianna Fáil Party got into power in 1932, there were 50,000 people unemployed, according to the papers then, and there are still 50,000 unemployed.

The registration was somewhat different at that time.

It was also stated that between 1922 and 1932, 250,000 people had left the country. Since then 500,000 have left the country. Of course, I can understand that both sides make statements, both sides bluff and pretend. If ordinary citizens were to he as much in order to get possession of something, they would be put in jail. Politicians can do it and ret away with it. According to the Fianna Fáil statement of 1932, 82,000 people would get work immediately.

The word "immediately" did not appear, and more than 82,000 have, in fact, been put into industrial employment.

There are 36,000 fewer now.

Not at all.

Half a million have left and there are still 50,000 unemployed. Emigration is as bad now as it ever was. That cannot be denied, no matter who sails over here to get a few bottles of Guinness and goes back again.

There is something wrong with the system. It has been played out. I am prepared to concede that, within the system, both Parties have done their best and that the Minister for Industry and Commerce has done his level best but, within the system, we failed. The Taoiseach, who once said that he would go outside the system, is not prepared to do that now. Of course, when people get on in life, they do not want the trouble. It is amazing the difference that 20 or 30 years can make. All the talk about the Treaty published in the past looks so silly now, to me at any rate. The problem remains now as it was when Fianna Fáil got into power. There is no prospect of emigration being reduced by any considerable amount. There is no prospect of any great numbers getting employment. There were 3,000 engaged in the building trade; there are now only 500 or 600 engaged in it. The building of flats in Dublin will not create greater employment. The housing that gives the greater amount of employment is tapering off. There will be no substantial employment resulting from the building of flats in Dublin. That is another he put over in the recent by-election. The impression was given that large numbers would be employed. I know the factual position. If 100 extra men get employment, that will be the maximum. Even at the present moment, in Dublin Corporation, there is reorganisation in progress and I have heard from numerous people that they expect to be sacked. So, must as hundreds are getting jobs because of some effort on the part of the Minister for Industry and Commerce, as many are being sacked. The position remains much the same. There were 50.000 unemployed in 1932 and there are still 50,000 unemployed.

Therefore, I put it to the Taoiseach that he should consider whether he should change the system or change the form of Government so as to bring it down to a level that will be in accordance with our means. Apparently, there is a desire that we should compare with big nations, while at the same time we offer a miserable amount to an unemployed man and an old age pensioner. I do not follow any Party, but I like to hear what everybody says. I attended a lecture the other night where I heard Mr. Michael Foot deplore with horror the fact that old age pensioners got only 25/- while they got £3 a week in Britain. I will just take up two more minutes, as there were two minutes stolen from me.

You are taking them from me; I did not steal them.

The system is at fault and why is the Taoiseach not doing something about it? I do not think we can have any great hopes, but I should like the Taoiseach to bear in mind that the miserable pittance paid to old age pensioners is driving people out of the country. In spite of the Taoiseach's devotion to the Church, he is sending thousands of young boys and girls to England where there is no control, where they can read all the evil literature they want to, and where they can purchase contraceptives, as is stated in the Sunday newspapers. We can only conclude that we are not making any effort to keep them at home and provide employment for them. All this so-called devotion to the Church is two-faced when one examines the results.

I want, first of all, to deal with the allegation made by Deputy O'Malley, and to express surprise that the Deputy was the one selected to make that charge. There are a lot of gentlemen on the Government Front Bench who have access to Government records, and to all departmental files, who might easily have made the charge which Deputy O'Malley made, if there was any justification at all for it. They did not make that charge. They left it to Deputy O'Malley, knowing well that the Deputy has not established a high reputation for veracity for himself in this House.

If the rules of this House permitted it, I would characterise what Deputy O'Malley said as a deliberate he, but, as the Rules do not permit me to say it was a deliberate he, I have to confine myself to saying it was a falsehood on his part—the suggestion that a decision was taken by the inter-Party Government on 2nd November, 1956, or on any other date, to abolish the food subsidies.

I only asked the question.

Such a suggestion was never considered. It was never made to me, officially or privately. It was never discussed at a Government meeting, and there is nothing on any Government record to the effect that any such decision was made. The charge was typical of misrepresentation by Deputy O'Malley, but none of the hairy old boys on the Front Bench would commit themselves to an untruthful statement of that kind, because they know there is no justification for it.

The Deputy only asked the question.

He is getting the facts and he is being told the truth. His challenge has been accepted, but I bet that this will not prevent similar untruthful statements being made in the House, on that and every other subject. So far as the food subsidies were concerned, they stood rock-like and impregnable from 1948 to 1951, when the inter-Party Government were in office, and from 1954 to 1957. The only Party that has a stained record in the matter of food subsidies is the Fianna Fáil Party. They abolished half of them in the Budget of 1952, though they promised to retain them, and they abolished the other half in the Budget of 1956-57, again despite their promise to maintain them. That is their record.

The food subsidies are a ghost to the Fianna Fáil Party, a ghost of the things they did but which they promised they would not do, and that is why they have an uneasy conscience in this matter. As the Taoiseach said to Deputy Blowick that he should produce the appropriate quotations——

I will do so. The Taoiseach is suffering from amnesia.

No, I am not. I know perfectly well what I did say.

Let us get the facts.

For the second time.

I do not forget these things.

In the Irish Press of 1st March, the Minister for Justice is reported as making a speech at Doyle's Corner in which he referred to bloodcurdling stories, that is, the warning by Mr. Norton that Fianna Fáil would withdraw the food subsidies, and he went on to say:—

"The Coalition groups, having no further promises to make for themselves, have switched to making Minister promises on behalf of Fianna Fáil."

He was not alone in that. The Taoiseach went down to Belmullet and made this speech:—

"The Coalition Parties were changing their tactics in this election. The opponents of Fianna Fáil were wondering what new dodge they could try to prevent the people from seeing the real issue in the election."

He went on to say:—

"You know the record of Fianna Fáil in the past. You know we have never done the things they say we would do. They have also told you that you would be paying more for your bread——"

How right we were—50 per cent. more.

You had full knowledge of the financial position of the country.

You knew it all when you were in opposition, but you know nothing when you get into office.

You were aware of the change in the finances of the country.

Deputy Lemass was even clearer than the Taoiseach on this matter. Here is what he had to say:

"Some Coalition leaders were threatening the country with all sorts of unpleasant things if Fianna Fáil became the Government-compulsory tillage, wage control, cuts in civil servants' salaries, higher food prices and a lot more—"

He continued:

"The Fianna Fáil Government does not intend to do any of these things because we do not believe in them."

They did not believe in cutting the food subsidies.

I did not until I was forced to do it.

To clinch the argument, he went on:

"How definite can we make our denial of these absurd allegations? They are all falsehoods."

Then, as if his colours were not adequately nailed to the mast, he added this:

"Food subsidies must be accepted as likely to remain a permanent feature in the Estimates unless a very steep fall should take place in the cost of living and that is not very likely... I should like to express the personal viewpoint, which I hold strongly, that the maximum advantage can be expected by concentrating all the money which can be voted for food subsidies on flour and bread alone."

Will the Taoiseach attempt to say that there is no promise in these statements that the food subsidies would be maintained?

What is quite clear to anybody reading that is how many other things besides food subsidies were mentioned.

I mentioned all of them.

When we came into office, we did not have pre-knowledge of the financial position, and we had to deal with the financial situation that was left to us.

The Minister for Health knew all about the financial position for three years before that.

He could not have known.

He did. We had a harum-scarum speech last night from Deputy Noel Lemass, in which he sought to prove that the unemployment figures had fallen phenomenally and that everything was delightful from the employment point of view. The fact is that figures issued from the Taoiseach's Office show that 500 fewer persons are unemployed to-day than at this time last year——

The position 12 months ago was better than the position prevailing 12 months prior to that again.

The figures are that over 51,000 persons are now registered as unemployed, that is, 500 fewer than last year. At this rate, it will take 20 years to clear the register. But what the Taoiseach or Deputy Noel Lemass did not tell the House was that the number of unemployed to-day is 10,500 more than in 1955.

Yes, nobody is denying that situation.

These are the facts. The Taoiseach does not know. I congratulate him on the marvellous brass face he can assume when there is any attempt to assess the situation. You have only to go to the rural areas; you have only to go to the small towns up and down the country to realise the drift of the people not from the rural areas into the cities, but out of the country entirely. Every rural area in the country, particularly in the west and the north-west, has yielded up quotas of humanity on a greater scale than ever to find employment in England. Here are the facts now as issued by the Taoiseach's own Department. Will he deny this?

I have not denied that there is a very serious emigration problem. What I said was that we have no accurate figures from year to year.

The position is that the natural increase in population is approximately 28,000 persons a year, so that if you could not get out of this country at all to emigrate or to go on holidays, the population, on an average, ought to go up by 28,000 per year. According to the Registrar-General—and he is controlled, I think, by the Taoiseach's own Department—there were 32,000 fewer people in the country in June, 1958, than in June, 1957, not withstanding the fact, that during that period, there was the normal increase of births over deaths of 28,000. If you add the two figures, you get 60,000 and that is the approximate emigration figure to-day. Does the Taoiseach deny his own Department's figures?

If the Deputy desires, I shall tell him about these figures. Here is the point. The figures the Registrar-General put into that report are got in a variety of ways. To try to get an approximate number for the population for the year, one thing that must be taken into account is an approximation of what emigration would be. A small error of, say, 4,000 or 5,000 would be a very important error in estimated emigration figures as it would represent such a very high percentage that the estimate would not give a reliable indication of emigration but an error of 4,000 or 5,000 in, roughly, 3,000,000 is not an important error. Therefore, the Statistics Department, while using certain estimates to compute population figures, do not use them to arrive at estimates of emigration.

You can all take your pick on that explanation. It is beyond me.

What action did you take on the Norton Commission? What did you do about it?

I want to give the Taoiseach some more figures.

Give us the figure of unemployed when you went out of office.

It reached 138,000 once, when Fianna Fáil were in power.

As Deputy Haughey has not apparently these figures at his finger tips, I shall do my best to help him. Yesterday, the Parliamentary Secretary to the Taoiseach was asked how many people were in insurable employment in the past five years. Here are the figures. Put them down now so that you will have them for future reference. We were informed that the total number of insured persons in the year ended March, 1954, was 488,000. In the year ended March, 1955, the figure was 498,000. In the year ending March, 1956, the figure was 501,000. In the year ended March, 1957—the Coalition Government were still in office—the figure was 485,000.

It went down.

In the first year of Fianna Fáil, March, 1958, the figure was 464,000. There is a substantial drop in the number of people and no brass faces or the misrepresentations of the Minister for Health when he draws on his imagination when he cannot understand statistics will conceal the significance of these figures. It is almost pitiable to have to engage in an argument with this infantile Minister for Health who comes in here not knowing what the debate is about but feeling so confident in his own silliness that he gets into it within one second of his arrival. There should be a close season for conduct of that kind. The Minister is not now on the soap-box and saying what he likes. He is the President's Minister now. When the President gave him his Seal of Office, he expected him to conduct himself in this House like a gentleman and he ought so to conduct himself.

Deputy Norton should get back to the motion.

I think I have answered all the misrepresentations that have been made. I have laid Deputy O'Malley's ghost, I hope, although no doubt he will produce a second one in the near future. I have given facts and figures which are indisputable. I am now content to conclude my speech by asking all intelligent Deputies who are not tied to the Fianna Fáil apron strings to vote for the motion of no confidence.

You have no case.

Now, Barnum.

Amendment put.
The Dáil divided: Tá, 54; Níl, 71.

  • Barrett, Stephen D.
  • Barry, Richard.
  • Belton, Jack.
  • Blowick, Joseph.
  • Browne, Noel C.
  • Byrne, Tom.
  • Carew, John.
  • Carroll, James.
  • Casey, Seán.
  • Coburn, George.
  • Coogan, Fintan.
  • Corish, Brendan.
  • Cosgrave, Liam.
  • Costello, Declan D.
  • Costello, John A.
  • Crotty, Patrick J.
  • Desmond, Daniel.
  • Dillon, James M.
  • Donnellan, Michael.
  • Everett, James.
  • Fagan, Charles.
  • Finucane, Patrick.
  • Flanagan, Oliver J.
  • Giles, Patrick.
  • Hogan, Bridget.
  • Hughes, Joseph.
  • Jones, Denis F.
  • Kenny, Henry.
  • Kyne, Thomas A.
  • Larkin, Denis.
  • Lindsay, Patrick.
  • Lynch, Thaddeus.
  • McAuliffe, Patrick.
  • MacEoin, Seán.
  • McGilligan, Patrick.
  • McMenamin, Daniel.
  • McQuillan, John.
  • Manley, Timothy.
  • Mulcahy, Richard.
  • Murphy, Michael P.
  • Norton, William.
  • O'Donnell, Patrick.
  • O'Higgins, Michael J.
  • O'Reilly, Patrick.
  • O'Sullivan, Denis J.
  • Palmer, Patrick W.
  • Reynolds, Mary.
  • Rogers, Patrick J.
  • Rooney, Eamonn.
  • Sherwin, Frank.
  • Spring, Dan.
  • Sweetman, Gerard.
  • Tierney, Patrick.
  • Tully, John.

Níl

  • Allen, Denis.
  • Bartley, Gerald.
  • Blaney, Neal T.
  • Boland, Gerald.
  • Booth, Lionel.
  • Brady, Philip A.
  • Brady, Seán.
  • Brennan, Paudge.
  • Breslin, Cormac.
  • Browne, Seán.
  • Burke, Patrick.
  • Calleary, Phelim A.
  • Carty, Michael.
  • Childers, Erskine.
  • Clohessy, Patrick.
  • Collins, James J.
  • Corry, Martin J.
  • Cotter, Edward.
  • Crowley, Honor M.
  • Cummins, Patrick.
  • Cunningham, Liam.
  • Davern, Mick.
  • de Valera, Eamon.
  • de Valera, Vivion.
  • Lemass, Noel T.
  • Loughman, Frank.
  • Lynch, Celia.
  • Lynch, Jack.
  • MacCarthy, Seán.
  • McEllistrim, Thomas.
  • MacEntee, Scan.
  • Maher, Peadar.
  • Medlar, Martin.
  • Millar, Anthony G.
  • Moher, John W.
  • Molony, Daniel J.
  • Doherty, Seán.
  • Donegan, Batt.
  • Dooley, Patrick.
  • Egan, Kieran P.
  • Egan, Nicholas.
  • Fanning, John.
  • Faulkner, Pádraig.
  • Flanagan, Seán.
  • Flynn, Stephen.
  • Galvin, John.
  • Geoghegan, John.
  • Gibbons, James.
  • Gilbride, Eugene.
  • Gogan, Richard P.
  • Griffin, James.
  • Haughey, Charles.
  • Healy, Augustine A.
  • Hillery, Patrick J.
  • Hilliard, Michael.
  • Humphreys, Francis.
  • Kenneally, William.
  • Kennedy, Michael J.
  • Killilea, Mark.
  • Kitt, Michael F.
  • Mooney, Patrick.
  • Moran, Michael.
  • Ó Briain, Donnchadh.
  • O'Malley, Donogh.
  • Ormonde, John.
  • O'Toole, James.
  • Ryan, James.
  • Ryan, Mary B.
  • Sheridan, Michael.
  • Smith, Patrick.
  • Traynor, Oscar.
Tellers:—Tá: Deputies O'Sullivan and Crotty; Níl: Deputies Ó Briain and Loughman.
Amendment declared lost.
Main motion put.
The Dáil divided: Tá, 54; Níl, 71.

  • Barrett, Stephen D.
  • Barry, Richard.
  • Belton, Jack.
  • Blowick, Joseph.
  • Browne, Noel C.
  • Byrne, Tom.
  • Carew, John.
  • Carroll, James.
  • Casey, Seán.
  • Coburn, George.
  • Coogan, Fintan.
  • Corish, Brendan.
  • Cosgrave, Liam.
  • Costello, Declan D.
  • Costello, John A.
  • Crotty, Patrick J.
  • Desmond, Daniel.
  • Dillon, James M.
  • Donnellan, Michael.
  • Everett, James.
  • Fagan, Charles.
  • Finucane, Patrick.
  • Flanagan, Oliver J.
  • Giles, Patrick.
  • Hogan, Bridget.
  • Hughes, Joseph.
  • Jones, Denis F.
  • Kenny, Henry.
  • Kyne, Thomas A.
  • Larkin, Denis.
  • Lindsay, Patrick.
  • Lynch, Thaddeus.
  • McAuliffe, Patrick.
  • MacEoin, Seán.
  • McGilligan, Patrick.
  • McMenamin, Daniel.
  • McQuillan, John.
  • Manley, Timothy.
  • Mulcahy, Richard.
  • Murphy, Michael P.
  • Norton, William.
  • O'Donnell, Patrick.
  • O'Higgins, Michael J.
  • O'Reilly, Patrick.
  • O'Sullivan, Denis J.
  • Palmer, Patrick W.
  • Reynolds, Mary.
  • Rogers, Patrick J.
  • Rooney, Eamonn.
  • Sherwin, Frank.
  • Spring, Dan.
  • Sweetman, Gerard.
  • Tierney, Patrick.
  • Tully, John.

Níl

  • Allen, Denis.
  • Bartley, Gerald.
  • Blaney, Neal T.
  • Boland, Gerald.
  • Booth, Lionel.
  • Brady, Philip A.
  • Brady, Seán.
  • Brennan, Paudge.
  • Breslin, Cormac.
  • Browne, Seán.
  • Burke, Patrick.
  • Calleary, Phelim A.
  • Carty, Michael.
  • Childers, Erskine.
  • Clohessy, Patrick.
  • Collins, James J.
  • Corry, Martin J.
  • Cotter, Edward.
  • Crowley, Honor M.
  • Griffin, James.
  • Haughey, Charles.
  • Healy, Augustine A.
  • Hillery, Patrick J.
  • Hilliard, Michael.
  • Humphreys, Francis.
  • Kenneally, William.
  • Kennedy, Michael J.
  • Killilea, Mark.
  • Kitt, Michael F.
  • Lemass, Noel T.
  • Loughman, Frank.
  • Lynch, Celia.
  • Lynch, Jack.
  • MacCarthy, Seán.
  • McEllistrim, Thomas.
  • MacEntee, Seán.
  • Cummins, Patrick.
  • Cunningham, Liam.
  • Davern, Mick.
  • de Valera, Eamon.
  • de Valera, Vivion.
  • Doherty, Seán.
  • Donegan, Batt.
  • Dooley, Patrick.
  • Egan, Kieran P.
  • Egan, Nicholas.
  • Fanning, John.
  • Faulkner, Pádraig.
  • Flanagan, Seán.
  • Flynn, Stephen.
  • Galvin, John.
  • Geoghegan, John.
  • Gibbons, James.
  • Gilbride, Eugene.
  • Gogan, Richard P.
  • Maher, Peadar.
  • Medlar, Martin.
  • Millar, Anthony G.
  • Moher, John W.
  • Molony, Daniel J.
  • Mooney, Patrick.
  • Moran, Michael.
  • Ó Briain, Donnchadh.
  • O'Malley, Donogh.
  • Ormonde, John.
  • O'Toole, James.
  • Ryan, James.
  • Ryan, Mary B.
  • Sheridan, Michael.
  • Smith, Patrick.
  • Traynor, Oscar.
Tellers:—Tá: Deputies Tierney and Casey; Níl: Deputies Ó Briain and Loughman.
Motion declared lost.
The Dáil adjourned at 5 p.m. until 3 p.m. on Wednesday, 5th November, 1958.
Top
Share