Very well—to the Dr. James Ryan tactics. But I am quite inured to them. They roll off me like water off a duck's back. They do not make the slightest effect on me. The Minister has advanced a truly astonishing proposition; that is, that where the Industrial Credit Company proposes an individual loan of £5,000,000 and has borrowed the entire amount from the Minister for Finance, he would regard it as entirely improper for the Industrial Credit Company to discuss with him the purpose for which they propose to lend that £5,000,000. Now, is that a reasonable proposition? Can any Deputy in his right mind endorse the proposition that we should set up under statute a company which has the right to go to the Minister for Finance, borrow £5,000,000 from him and, if asked by the Minister to what purpose they propose to apply this, reply: "We shall not tell you. You have no business to inquire." If that is the situation, the administration of the Department of Finance has gone mad and, of course, it is not the situation and we all know it is not the situation. The ridiculous part of it is that the Minister is prepared to get up and say that it is the situation and we are all precluded by the rules of order of this House from appropriately describing that statement that he has made to the House.
Certainly, the House should not be bluffed, bullied or insulted by the Minister for Finance into receding from the position that the ultimate control of public finance should remain with Dáil Éireann. I refuse to be blackmailed by allegations that I am concerned to hinder industrial development in this country into receding from the position that this House should retain in its hands the ultimate control of public finance. Therefore, I consider myself not only entitled, but in duty bound, to press on the Minister two queries: (1) If there has been a commitment to provide financial assistance to this industrial concern in Cork, has there been any corresponding commitment by the promoters to invest a corresponding sum in this enterprise? I think we are entitled to know that and we ought to be told. (2) We were informed by the present Taoiseach when he was Minister for Industry and Commerce that, at a certain stage in the preliminary negotiations, the promoters of this enterprise told him that a situation might arise that their abundant supplies of capital would not be available owing to the Dutch Government refusing permission to export it from the Netherlands and that the Minister for Industry and Commerce in Ireland replied to the promoters that, in that event, he would guarantee that the capital would be made available even though the Dutch authorities refused to change their attitude.
I think we here are entitled to inquire how is it possible that the Dutch Government who, I understand, at present control one of the hard currencies of the world, find any difficulty in releasing £3,000,000 or £4,000,000 for an industrial enterprise of this kind when, in their daily transactions, hundreds of millions must be passing in the course of international trade. I find it extremely difficult to believe that the Dutch Government could produce any valid justification for withholding investment of such a sum abroad, bearing in mind that in this country, so far as I know, if anyone wanted to invest £2,000,000, £3,000,000, £4,000,000 or £5,000,000 abroad in the morning, he is perfectly free to do so, and it is fantastic to compare our financial resources with the resources of the Netherlands.
It may be that if we desired to invest so large a sum in certain continental countries or in the United States of America, permission would have to be got from the Department of Finance but, as between here and Great Britain such a transfer could be made without let or hindrance or between ourselves and, I believe, any member of the Sterling Payments Union. It is very hard to believe that the Dutch Government would have any valid difficulty in making it possible for a Dutch national to transfer a relatively insignificant capital sum of that kind, bearing in mind the total capital investments of the Netherlands population. I wonder if any representations were made by us to the Netherlands Government or if that was considered an appropriate procedure in this situation.
I think it is reasonable to ask the Minister these questions. I have not the slightest doubt that it is not only reasonable but urgently necessary to insist that, in our view, commitments of a substantial character—I accept the figure mentioned by Deputy Sweetman although I do not suppose that any of us would cavil if the Minister wished to vary the sum slightly upwards or downwards from £250,000; but sums in excess of that—should be reported to Dáil Éireann at some stage. Secondly, I think the Minister, if he experiences a difficulty in stating what specific sum is comprised in what Deputy MacCarthy describes as the umbrella, at least should be able to tell us what relation there is between the investment of the promoters of this enterprise and the amount made available to them by the Industrial Credit Company.
Lastly, I would suggest to the Minister that he would abandon the hope that by insolent abuse he will deter any responsible Deputy in this House from saying and continuing to say what he considers it to be his duty to say here.