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Dáil Éireann debate -
Thursday, 22 Oct 1959

Vol. 177 No. 2

Transport Bill, 1959—Second Stage.

I move that the Bill be now read a Second Time. The Bill provides that (a) the Minister for Transport and Power, with the consent of the Minister for Finance, may from time to time make a superannuation scheme or schemes for whole-time members of the Board of Coras Iompair Éireann; and (b) Coras Iompair Éireann be authorised to pay Mr. Thaddeus C. Courtney, a former Chairman of the Board, a sum of £3,636 as compensation for the loss sustained by him by reason of his resignation as from 31st August, 1958, on the ground of ill-health, from the office of Chairman of the Board. Mr. Courtney's period of office was not due to expire until 31st May, 1960.

In the Transport Act, 1950, specific superannuation provision was made for Mr. Courtney, Chairman of Coras Iompair Éireann. The Act also provided superannuation benefits for other whole-time members of the Board. In fact, this latter statutory provision has never been applied because, since the passing of the Act, the Chairman has been the only whole-time member of the Board. The existing superannuation provisions in the Transport Act are not appropriate to the position of the present Chairman of the Board and accordingly substantial amendment of the Act would be necessary to cover his position. I consider, however, that instead of, in future, legislating for named individuals, it is preferable to provide that power be given to enable the Minister for Transport and Power with the concurrence of the Minister for Finance, to prepare a superannuation scheme covering whole-time members, including the Chairman, of Coras Iompair Éireann. This course is in line with that adopted in legislation enacted since the passing of the Transport Act, 1950, in regard to the superannuation of whole-time members of semi-State bodies. Similar provisions, for instance, are contained in the Turf Development Act, 1953. This course avoids the necessity for amending Acts of the Oireachtas when there is a change of personnel.

I might mention that Dr. C.S. Andrews, the present Chairman of Coras Iompair Éireann, was appointed for a period of five years beginning on 1st September, 1958. He had previously had service with other State companies and for many years had been whole-time managing director of Bord na Móna where he had enjoyed the benefit of a superannuation scheme made under Section 5 of the Turf Development Act, 1953. On his resignation from Bord na Móna, he lost the right to superannuation benefit under the Bord na Móna scheme. In equity, therefore, it will be necessary to provide in the superannuation scheme for Dr. Andrews that he be given credit for previous service with State bodies. The scheme will be presented to the Oireachtas in due course.

The superannuation position of Mr. T.C. Courtney in respect of the office of Chairman of Coras Iompair Éireann is specifically provided for in the Second Schedule to the Transport Act, 1950, and, on resignation on the ground of ill-health, he became entitled to a pension of one-eightieth of his yearly salary for each completed year of pensionable service (subject to a maximum of one-half of the yearly salary) together with a gratuity of one-thirtieth of the yearly salary for each completed year of pensionable service subject to a maximum of 1½ times the yearly salary. On his resignation on 31st August, 1958, Mr. Courtney had not become entitled either to the amount of the pension or retirement gratuity which he would have earned if he had continued in office until 31st May, 1960, when his term of office would have expired. His resignation, therefore, before the expiry of his term of office meant that he obtained a reduced pension and reduced retirement gratuity. It also involved him in the loss, for the balance of the period, of the difference between his pension and his salary as Chairman. It has been calculated that this loss amounts to £3,636 made up as follows:—

loss on retirement gratuity

£300

loss (on actuarial basis) of pension

£792

and the difference between pension and pay for the balance of the appointment period, less tax

£2,544

Total loss

£3,636.

I recommend the Bill for the approval of the House.

Would the Minister say whether the provisions in Section 2 apply only to the present Chairman or whether they would apply to any subsequent chairman of Coras Iompair Éireann? Could the Minister also say whether there is any difference in the superannuation terms being granted to the present Chairman as distinct from the previous Chairman?

I should say that Section 2 applies to all future chairmen of C.I.E. It is a permanent superannuation scheme for any wholetime member of C.I.E.

Does it follow from that that a person with one year's service as chairman would be entitled to superannuation?

That would depend upon the superannuation scheme. We have not yet made the superannuation scheme for the present Chairman.

This section provides that if a person has one year's service as chairman, he may be granted superannuation. I take it that he would have to have other services?

He obviously would have to have service derived from other State companies.

The Minister has not prepared a draft scheme?

What lines does the Minister intend to follow in making it? Does he intend to follow the previous scheme for the former Chairman?

Roughly on the same lines. Regard will have to be had to the present Chairman's previous service.

Certainly, but, taking previous service into account, it will be based on an apportionment of so much for each year of service, wherever it was, so to speak?

What I am anxious to find out is this: Both the present chairman and the previous chairman had Civil Service service for which they were entitled to certain superannuation. Is it clear that this section will apply only to persons with superannuation service elsewhere and that it will not be possible under it to appoint a chairman for 12 months and then superannuate him unless he has had previous service?

Of course, the superannuation scheme depends on the duration of appointment of the chairman. If the chairman is appointed for five years, he would have to serve for five years to earn any superannuation and, of course, the superannuation for a period of five years would not be very great.

No, but it says here "if he has one year". I take it that that is the form in which it is framed.

I think the purpose of that is only to give the person concerned the right to object to an amending scheme.

Do C.I.E. in this case, for example, get a contribution from Bord na Móna in respect of the part of his previous service or is it the last company with which a person serves which bears the whole cost?

It is the last company which bears the whole cost in this and other cases.

I am not sure that the Minister is right about other cases. I thought there was an arrangement for contributions. Perhaps between now and Committee Stage the Minister could check that point so that he could answer me on Committee. I think in other cases there is provision for contribution as between one company and another.

We can have that examined.

Question put and agreed to.
Committee Stage ordered for Wednesday, 4th November, 1959.
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