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Dáil Éireann debate -
Thursday, 10 Nov 1960

Vol. 184 No. 6

Private Members' Business. - Mentally Handicapped Children—Motion (Resumed).

The following motion was moved by Deputy D. Costello on 9th November, 1960:—
That Dáil Éireann is of the opinion that present facilities in this country for the treatment, Care and education of mentally handicapped children are deplorably inadequate and calls on the Government immediately to ensure that adequate facilities are made available so as to remedy the present unjust situation.
Debate resumed on the following amendment thereto:—
To delete all words after "Dáil Éireann" and to substitute therefor the following: "while conscious of the fact that due to historical causes present facilities for the treatment, care and education of mentally handicapped children are inadequate, realises that it has been the constant purpose of successive Governments within the limits of the resources in money, personnel and accommodation available to them to remedy this situation; welcomes the Government's White Paper, entitledThe Problem of the Mentally Handicapped Children outlining the several aspects of the problem and the progress which has been made in regard to it; notes with satisfaction the accelerating rate at which deficiencies in institutional accommodation are being made good, as well as the attention which is being given to the development of day-training centres; endorses the policy which the Government has outlined and is confident that it will be given effect to with all possible speed.”— (Deputy Faulkner.)

In concluding what I have to say in seconding this motion, I should like to say to the Minister that, as I mentioned last night, it was not a good thing for the Government to put down this amendment. The motion was not put down to gain political advantage. It was put down to draw the attention of the Government and the country to the position of mentally handicapped children. There are no grounds for complacency with regard to that position. The facts now are that there are 2,620 beds available and there is a prospect of a further 600 beds being made available. That reads all right because with the 600 extra beds, we shall have 3,220 beds, but there are 7,000 children in need of institutional care.

I wish to draw the attention of the Minister to that fact and also to the groups that have come together all over the country and have formed voluntary bodies or societies in an attempt to grapple, even in a small important that these people should have the help and the co-operation of the Department. When I say they should have the help of the Department, I mean that I consider they should have financial help and should not be dependent on flag days. They should have substantial financial help from the Department. I should like to put on record that the people in these various centres in Dublin, Limerick, Cork and Waterford deserve the appreciation of the whole country for the magnificent work they are doing.

I am rather surprised that the term "political advantage" has been used in this discussion. It is indeed very peculiar that such a term should be used when we are discussing the plight of one of the most unfortunate sections of the community—mentally handicapped children. I cannot see why any Party or any member of this House should seek to derive any political advantage from such a discussion. I am sure it is the wish of each and every member of the House, irrespective of his or her affiliations, to bring about an alleviation in the plight of these people. Of course, we differ in our approach to the way in which this problem could be solved. I regret very much that there is a marked difference in that approach but we in the Labour Party, without hesitation, support the motion and we believe that this amendment is to put it mildly, nonsensical.

The amendment states: "... while conscious of the fact that due to historical causes present facilities for the treatment, care and education of mentally handicapped children are inadequate...." In that part of the amendment, the Government acknowledge the fact that the treatment care and education of mentally handicapped children are inadequate, so that question is not in dispute. The amendment then sets out that they realise of successive Governments within the limit of the resources in money, personnel and accommodation available to them to remedy this situation. It welcomes the White Paper entitled "The Problem of the Mentally Handicapped Children,” notes with satisfaction the accelerating rate at which deficiencies in institutional accommodation are being made good, as well as the attention which is being given to the development of day-training centres, endorses the policy which the Government have outlined and states that they are confident that it will be given effect to with all possible speed.

Surely the Minister and the Government know that they have no soundly based policy to provide accommodation and institutional treatment for these mentally handicapped children at the present time. I think that our approach and their approach is very timid and it is a national scandal that children should be left in such a state. The Government state that they are providing an opportunity for rehabilitating these children as far as their resources go, that they are trying as best they can but that they have not sufficient money to do all they want to do. It is indeed significant that when we had the question of the rehabilitation of land, not children, before this House, we had unanimity that it was a matter of national importance and urgency that as much land as possible should be rehabilitated in order to produce more wealth for the country. On that occasion, we had not very many objections to the financial burden of that rehabilitation. When we have a completely different matter of unbounded importance, that unfortunate section of our people, the mentally handicapped children, it is very strange that we should find in a Government amendment the question of financial resources.

It is true to say that, over the years, successive Governments have promoted and advanced very much-health services generally, with the exception of the care of mentally handicapped children. In county Cork, time and again over the past eight or nine years, we have addressed ourselves to this question. We had several meetings of our health services committee which were almost entirely devoted to the question of providing suitable accommodation for the mentally handicapped children in the county. Unfortunately we have made very little progress.

I remember some years ago meeting the Minister's predecessor, Deputy T.F. O'Higgins, and discussing with him the problem of providing accommodation for the mentally handicapped children in the Cork health services area. The Minister at that time informed me, as he also informed the local authority on a number of occasions, that this matter was a major national problem and that the Department had not yet got around to it. That is similar to the situation we have today. He offered this solution for the Cork problem on a temporary basis—he advised the Cork health services committee to endeavour to provide one of the many institutions under their authority for the care of those children.

I put that viewpoint forward at our meeting in Cork more than two years ago and it was agreed by the members of the county council that this suggestion was worth a trial. It was handed over to a sub-committee of the council, with the engineering authorities and the county medical officer and they were asked to report on a building that was then vacant, the former sanatorium in Skibbereen. The report as submitted by the then county medical officer stated that he was quite satisfied that the building was eminently suitable for the accommodation of mentally defective children. He felt, however, that it was rather a small building and he estimated the number that could be accommodated in it at 34. The other technical people agreed as to the general suitability of the premises.

We then had before us a report from the county medical officer dividing into four different classifications the mentally handicapped children of the county. Classifications (1) and (2) were children who could be deemed capable of getting great benefit from proper treatment; classifications (3) and (4) were children requiring total care, children with defects of a rather extreme nature. We felt on his report to us that while there might be some difficulty in getting suitable staff, the children described as extreme cases could be usefully accommodated there for a number of years until more suitable accommodation could be provided.

There was general agreement on the part of the county council with a total membership of 46 that we should, in accordance with the recommendations of the county medical officer, make a start in Skibbereen and set up the hospital for 34 children in classifications (3) and (4) of the report. We submitted that suggestion to the Minister and we had all hoped that it would meet with his approval, having regard to the fact that it had come about as a result of a suggestion of his predecessor. What co-operation did the Cork health services committee get from the Minister? He sent us a number of letters informing us that this institution that we were to establish in Skibbereen would cater for only 34 mentally defective children, that the number was negligible and that he would not give approval. The only case the Minister was able to make against the proposal was that the number of children was so small that no useful purpose would be served by establishing a unit.

I should like to avail of this opportunity to inform the Minister of the difficulties, mental and physical, that beset parents of mentally defective children, particularly the types of children we had hoped to accommodate in the Skibbereen Institution if we had got the approval of the Minister. I have seen a number of these children in their homes. I have the greatest sympathy for their parents. I believe every Deputy has the greatest sympathy for them. It is an impossibility for ordinary country people with, possibly, other children, to cater in the home for a mentally defective child. I have not the slightest doubt that because a mentally defective child is unable to obtain accommodation in any recognised institution and must be kept at home its presence in the home is bound to have an adverse effect on the other children. I think all the medical evidence available goes to show that that is correct.

We have had many and forceful representations from parents. They felt the health authority was obliged to provide them with some help for their feeble-minded children. Unfortunately, that was not the case. So far as this problem is concerned, the co-operation we have received from the Department has been non-existent. It is time for the Government to forget that this is a problem the solution of which is around the corner in that we are providing plans to secure institutions to cater for these people on a national basis and that we hope in the future to have such institutions available.

We must tackle this problem, as the motion suggests, as a most urgent one. I have no doubt that many children who may not be badly affected could, with training in properly-established and equipped institutions, become useful citizens. I have seen a number of children who were catered for very well indeed and very advantageously by certain institutions such, I believe, as the Brothers of St. John of God. Undoubtedly, great credit is due to these people for the manner in which they bring up and advance the mentality of children committed to their care.

On a motion with a time limit of three hours, it would be unfair to delay the House and preclude other members who may wish to speak. This is a very pressing problem in County Cork. We do not know the exact number of children there. It is useless for parents to request the county medical officer of health to provide accommodation for such children at present. The cases which were reported and those in respect of which representations for accommodation were made years ago were not satisfactorily dealt with as, so far, the accommodation has not been forthcoming.

I shall mention a very pleasing feature that came to my notice recently. It concerns the centre in Cork dealing with the after-care of polio patients. The number of these patients has declined and they are now turning their attention to mentally afflicted children. A group like that, doing noble and useful work, should get the blessing of the Department. I urge the Minister to ascertain in what way that rehabilitation centre in Cork can now help the mentally defective children of the area.

I wish again to stress the importance of the motion. No Deputy is going into the Division Lobby to vote against the provision of money to help feeble-minded children. It is much more important to expend money on that section of the people and thus help many of them to independence and a position in life where they may be able to ply some useful trade. Surely, as good a case, in the Minister's viewpoint, can be made for it as the ones I already mentioned a while ago—the rehabilitation of land or the eradication of bovine tuberculosis.

We are spending millions of money on, say, these two projects. They do not compare in importance with human beings. If the State is not handicapped in the provision of millions of money for such projects it should not be handicapped in providing money for the purpose set down in this motion.

Anyone who has been in public life in this county for a number of years cannot but be fully aware of this problem. I have come up against it for years. I have seen the most harrowing circumstances and instances. I came across one family with four mentally defective children. We can imagine what the mother and father had to suffer looking after them. However, in all the years, one thing I found was that it was very difficult to get the father and the mother to give up the children. Above all, their great desire was that the matter should not be dragged before the public.

I could not agree more with Deputy Murphy when he says this is a problem that should not be made a political plaything. The people who put down the motion are responsible for making it a political plaything. We can only talk about it as we know it. I have long experience and I devote myself to the problem in every possible way. At different periods I have approached Ministers in charge of the matter. I should like to pay tribute to what the then Minister for Finance did in Sligo in 1954. He invited a French Order of Nuns to come to Sligo. They did so. They set up the Home of the Immaculate Conception under the care of the Sisters of La Sagesse, Cregg Street, Sligo. The Sisters bought the house. The money for renovation was provided by the then Minister for Finance, Deputy MacEntee. Deputy Dr. Ryan was Minister for Health at the time. That house was opened in 1954. In the following three years, not one shilling was expended on this project. It was only in 1957, when we returned to power, that I approached the present Minister for Health and got a promise from him that the scheme would be proceeded with. I am glad to say that the Minister has earmarked £200,000 so that that scheme may be continued, that the plans for the building are almost ready and that the hopes to have the contract placed within a few months.

Deeds are more eloquent than words. The people who put down motions urging the Minister to do this, that and the other should review the record of the Minister and they will find what he has done for this project and that he has done it in a quiet way, in keeping with the wishes of the people concerned who do not want their names or their troubles to be dragged into this House or into every county council. He has done it in a quiet way. He has allotted the money and the scheme is being proceeded with. When I came to the Minister in 1957 he told me that he was wholeheartedly in agreement but that the Hospitals Trust money had been spent and that as soon as possible he would devote money to this project.

Listening last night to Deputy Lynch and Deputy Declan Costello talking about millions, about 6d. on income tax and 2d. on the packet of cigarettes, one got the impression that it was the most painless extraction of millions. However, having regard to what these people said at the General Election about the squandering of millions and about the necessity for a reduction in taxation and the feeling of depression that they organised in public bodies down the country, I have a grave suspicion that when it would come to putting up the money a different tune would be played on the fiddle.

The amendment deserves the support of the whole House. I would appeal again to the movers of the motion, if they have any sympathy with the parents of handicapped children, to withdraw the motion and thus take the matter out of politics. The Minister is doing his work in a proper way.

I should like again to congratulate the Sisters of La Sagesse for the work they are doing in Sligo. I visited the place recently and was delighted at the happy children who are under their care. They are just as happy as they would be in their own homes. These good Sisters deserve the gratitude of the Irish people. They are a French being trained to conduct this work as soon as the building is ready. I have not as the slightest doubt that the Minister will tell us when he is speaking on this motion that he is going ahead with the project, that the plans are almost complete and that the building will be ready in a very short time.

That is the only home for mentally handicapped children that I know of and I speak only of what I know. I am sure the same remarks apply in other cases. I believe that the care of mentally handicapped children has the complete sympathy of the Minister but that he wants to do it in a quiet way and not drag the matter into politics, as is being done.

I do not know whether I should sympathise with the Minister and the members of his Party who have had the embarrassment of having to listen to the last contribution which I regard as one of the lowest contributions to a debate in this House for many years. The motion deals with a grievous matter and it is alleged by Deputy Gilbride that it was prompted by political motives.

There is no question about it.

As a Deputy who put this name to the motion, I assert that that is a contemptible and damnable allegation on the part of Deputy Gilbride. There were no politics in this motion until the supplied amendment was tabled in an effort to whitewash a situation that certainly cannot be whitewashed. The incontestable fact is that there are, unfortunately, some 7,000 mentally handicapped children awaiting hospitalisation and the particular attention that can be given only by trained personnel in institutions.

In the past, parents of such children were loth to part with them even for a short time so that they might receive training that, in the unfortunate circumstances, the parents could not give them. As a result of the gradual improvement in this respect parents now realise that it is in the interests of the children that they should be handed into the care of men and women dedicated in their vocations and qualified to give the training and assistance that would make it possible for these children to attain a level of self-help and in some instances to be able to live a normal life in the community. This is a wonderful development but it has brought an increasing demand from parents of handicapped children that we should be more energetic and should give more finances with a view to the immediate improvement of accommodation for such children.

Deputy Gilbride, therefore, when he alleges that the Deputies who tabled this motion had only a political object, is thereby admitting that there is something to defend on the part of his Party. It is a scandalous thing that because elected members of this House, with the same rights as Deputies on the Government side, put down a motion to express public concern in relation to any position in any Department of State it should be asserted, by a strong Government, of course, that it is done for some low purpose, that it is just incredible that any number of Deputies should come together and table a motion the acceptance of which would be in the interests of these unfortunate children and that the House should be forced to listen to the statement made by Deputy Gilbride. If we wanted to be political in relation to this matter we could go to town on the framing of the amendment to the motion.

Go to town.

We prefer to use the limited time available to us in trying to bring home to the Minister that he should shed his complacency and give more attention to the alleviation of the situation.

Any Deputy can go back over the years and say that so much was left undone. I recall 1948. The care and treatment of mentally handicapped children was not the only health problem that had to be resolved in 1948. A more pressing problem at that time was the elimination of human tuberculosis. The Government decided at that time to give precedence to the provision of institutions and the allocation of millions of money for the treatment of tuberculosis. At that time people were queuing for sanatorium accommodation. The Government were wise in their time in giving that priority. Thanks be to God, within a very short time, we have reached the happy situation in which we now are in relation to that problem, a problem which was infinitely greater than that which we are now discussing. If that situation had not been dealt with there would have been no necessity to table this motion. However, thanks to the institutional treatment provided then, thanks to the improvements in the treatment of tuberculosis, this remains as the sole serious problem to be resolved.

What about cancer, polio and a few others?

Yes, cancer, polio and a few others. We know that the world is awaiting developments in relation to the treatment of cancer and pending the discovery of the cure which so many millions in the world are waiting and praying for, not a lot can be immediately undertaken by any Minister or any Government in relation to the treatment of cancer.

So we do nothing for the cancer patients.

You do something for the cancer patients. I am sure there is as much being done for cancer patients as it is humanly possible to perform, but here is a field in which we are not waiting for any miracle drug. We are not waiting for the solution that scientists and all great men throughout the world are applying their energy, their brains and experience to discover. We are asking the Minister to apply himself to something which is absolutely simple in comparison with the cures and the alleviation of scourges such as the Minister has mentioned.

All that is necessary is that the Minister would co-operate, as he failed to co-operate in the instance cited by Deputy Murphy in regard to Cork, in reducing the number of unfortunate thousands who are awaiting admission for institutional and specialist treatment. I am sure Deputy MacCarthy will agree with me that it was a wonderful experience for Deputies of the city and county of Cork to be invited within the last twelve months to go with those who are engaged in rehabilitation in that city to see, in regard to those who were receiving institutional and day treatment in these institutions, the improvement that has already been effected in an extremely short time in the condition of these children. I regard it as one of the most impressive experiences of my life and one that left an impression upon me that will remain for many a long day.

I would say to Deputy Gilbride who has left the House that it had a lot to do with the tabling of this motion when we saw what was being done by an extremely well-trained personnel, people who were employed outside this country and brought home to apply their skill in the treatment of Irish children. It was what I saw being done under very restricted and limited conditions in the city of Cork that inspired me to join with my colleagues in tabling this motion.

If, in face of the allegations made that this is purely and solely low politics, it brings the spotlight more to bear on the problem and gets effective action taken of such a magnitude as will immediately relieve the situation, then, despite all the allegations made, the motion will have been worthwhile. As time goes on, the condition of these children deteriorates and as they become institutionalised, it becomes more difficult to effect an improvement in their condition. That is why the problem is so pressing. We feel that the motion as tabled on the Order Paper is one that could be very well accepted and one which would receive complete cooperation from all men and women in public life, whether as members of this House or of local authorities in regard to assisting the Minister and the Government in any way possible to alleviate the situation.

No matter what may be alleged, no matter what insults or allegations may be thrown at those who tabled the motion, I still think that in any efforts the Minister may undertake, such cooperation will be forthcoming. However, it is unfortunate that there should be a defence of the present situation on the basis that those who tabled the motion were actuated by a motive other than a desire to do their part in ensuring that an early and effective action will be taken in relation to this problem.

I can accept without any reservation that Deputy Declan Costello spoke last night with complete sincerity and with real concern for handicapped children but I cannot resist the temptation to comment on the form in which the motion was put before the House. If, as Deputy O'Sullivan claims, it was purely a non-political motion, it could have been phrased in a much more cooperative way. It could have been phrased to express the concern of Dáil Éirean and to support the Government in any measures they might see fit to take. Instead it deplores the situation at the moment and calls on the Government immediately to do something which is itself an attack on the Government for alleged chronic mishandling of the situation. That puts the whole question on an entirely wrong basis. Deputy Costello, who has very considerable knowledge of the position, tried to deal with it is a proper way, though I do not agree with him in some of the points he made. However, he does understand some of the magnitude and complexity of the situation, which Deputy O'Sullivan quite clearly does not.

If it is a fact, as I believe it to be, that this situation is very serious, and if the members of the Opposition who have put their names to this motion represent their colleagues and if there is general concern particularly in the Fine Gael Party about the problem of mentally handicapped children, it is more than curious that only one member should be present during the debate and that the attendance of Fine Gael members since the motion was introduced by Deputy Costello last night has been noticeably poor.

The Deputy must know there were committees and meetings in progress.

I have no such knowledge.

The Deputy has it now.

I still have not. There may have been a Party meeting but so far as I know there were no Committee of Public Accounts, of which I am a member, but I believe I am better employed here at the moment. However, the absence of all the members of the Opposition is something on which I cannot refrain from commenting.

Deputy Costello referred quite properly to the need for proper diagnosis for mentally handicapped children. I agree with him that this is very necessary but I cannot agree that it is possible to set up diagnostic clinics at once, as he suggested. Even if it were in itself is a great step forward without the subsequent institutional treatment which is not yet available. It is no use diagnosing the problem unless you can do something about it. He claimed staff would be forthcoming for new and extended institutions. I cannot agree with him there because all the experience so far has been that staff are not forthcoming in the numbers required. He stated that premises could be built.

According to the suggestions in the White Paper we shall eventually require a total expenditure of about £7,000,000. If the mere provision of £7,000,000—large though that sum may appear—were the only consideration, I do not believe the Government would hesitate for a moment, but it is not just a question of producing £7,000,000 and having the whole matter dealt with. It is not just a matter of getting contractors to erect buildings. The whole treatment of mentally handicapped children is so complex that we do not yet know what type of building or what type of treatment is best suited to the conditions we have here. It may be that we should have more day centres and more facilities whereby children could go from home each day, be suitably employed and, if possible, educated during the daylight hours, returning to their homes in the afternoon. That might mean that, instead of having a few large institutions, we should concentrate on a very much larger number of small day centres. Nobody yet knows the solution to the problem and it would be criminally irresponsible on the part of the Government simply to erect buildings at a total cost of £7,000,000 at the grave risk that they might later be found to be white elephants and quite unsuitable for the purposes for which they were erected.

I was very disappointed that Deputy Declan Costello should fall so far below his own ideals in his introduction of this motion. It is a pity he is not as good an advocate in this House as he is, I hope, in the courts, When he stated that the money could easily be raised by selling the Boeing jet aircraft, I felt he was sinking very low indeed. It was a foolish remark. It was quite irrelevant. All it achieved was to bring in the same Fine Gael policy and Party consideration—sell aircraft at all costs.

I want to keep away from that kind of argument because I am deeply concerned about this matter. I have done quite an amount of research on it quite recently. Sufficient staff are not available at the moment to permit of any great extension of institutional services. In recent discussion with the Provincial of one of the Orders, he expressed his concerns to me that he could not get sufficient staff to run his present three institutions. It is a question of trying to find staff who are qualified and have a vocation. The Provincial explained that it is essential that the people who do this work should have a vocation as well as qualifications. Both are absolutely necessary because the mental, nervous and even spiritual agony which is experienced by people dealing with mentally handicaped children a something which very few of us can properly understand. There are unfortunately few people who feel this divine vocation for such work. Amongst those who have this vocation, there are few who have the technical qualifications to do the job as well as they would wish to do it. A vocation by itself is not sufficient. Good intentions are not sufficient. Expert technical training is needed before anyone can successfully undertake this work.

We must remember that up to the present there has not been a suitable course for training nurses, male and female, clerical and lay, for the care of mentally handicapped children. I welcome the step taken by the Nursing Council which has inaugurated a diploma course. Students are now in training, but this is a slow and complex job. It is no use just saying something must be done at once. If you rush it, almost certainly it will be done wrongly. It is not only a question of waste of money; harm might be done. Even though the situation is serious, even though suffering is being endured by children and their parents, we must not be panicked into taking hasty, ill-considered decisions. It is not just a question of providing £7,000,000 and erecting buildings. Provision must be made for the maintenance of such buildings and for their day-to-day running.

Most important of all, we need more education of public opinion. The poor attendance in this House on both sides —let us be perfectly frank—is a fair reflection of the lack of public concern generally in relation to this matter. We shall have to try to educate people so that they will understand that progress can be made with mentally handicapped children, if they are given proper treatment. Up to now, this problem has not been faced properly because parents, from understandable motives, kept it quiet that they had a handicapped child in the family. It is only now that people are allowing this to be known and bringing these children out of hiding. It is only now people are coming to appreciate that there is no cause for shame and that-a handicapped child can in many cases be trained to take some part in everyday life.

Let us try then to join together in every way we can to educate public opinion as to the magnitude of the problem and to a realisation of the fact that it can be solved to some extent. Let us hope this commission will work rapidly and effectively to give us the answer. I am convinced that as soon as the answer is given, the Government will take action. The phrasing of the motion calling on the Government immediately to ensure adequate facilities are made available shows a complete misreading of the situation. Whoever drafted the motion—I hope it was not Deputy Costello; I should imagine it was not—completely misunderstood the situation. Let us see now if we can reach agreement on the amendment which pointedly refers to the achievements of successive Governments.

We are not attempting to justify any particular action by the present Government since 1957. We refer to successive Governments. We welcome the progress that has been made. In particular, we welcome the issue of the White Paper and the proposal to set up a commission. We assure the Government of our confidence that they will act as soon as the way is clear. Surely we can do no more than that.

I hope we shall have no more Party political bickering on this matter. It is far too serious. It is not because of Party affiliations that I put my name to this amendment. I did it solely in an effort to put the matter back into the proper perspective in which it should be considered. The White Paper does not produce all the answers, but it does show the Government's realisation of the problem. It is the Government's first step towards achieving a faster rate of progress. Beyond that we cannot go. If we can assure the Government of our support, action will follow. If we criticise the Government for lack of immediate action, then we just do not know what we are talking about. I have great pleasure in supporting this amendment.

Every Deputy, no matter what Party he represents, or whether he is an Independent, and no matter from what part of the country he comes, is concerned about this very serious problem of the mentally handicapped and retarded children. Because I believe this is a matter of serious concern, I want, initially, to express regret that in some respects the matter has been dealt with in this House from what I might term almost a political point of view. The motion is critical of the facilities which exist. Surely any thinking person must be critical of the lack of adequate facilities?

The fact that there is a shortage, as I understand, of approximately 5,000 beds for children who require institutional treatment is in itself a criticism of the existing situation. The fact that there are only an estimated 500 to 600 places available in the schools when there is an estimated need of 6,000 places is in itself a criticism of the present situation. The fact that there are in the region of 40,000 of our nation's children either mentally bandicapped or slightly mentally retarded, and that up to the present we have not found any satisfactory means of diagnosing the handicap in these children, of impressing the seriousness of the matter on all shapes of public opinion, or of organising in an effective way the co-operation of all persons dealing with these children, by way of education, training or medical treatment, and have not attempted to secure the active co-operation of the parents are also criticisms of the situation as it exists today.

We are told that there are about 2,600 beds available in a number of institutions. There is scarcely a Deputy who, from his own knowledge and the efforts he has to make from time to time to try to secure accommodation in an institution for some unfortunate child, is not aware of the suffering and hardship imposed on parents who have to wait week after week, month after month, and in some cases, years, before their child can get proper attention. These matters in themselves are a criticism, and, if they are a criticism, surely it is only reasonable that we in this House should express criticism of the existing situation and call for some immediate attention for it?

I was somewhat surprised when I read the terms of the amendment, because, with all due respect to those Deputies who spoke in support of it-and with all due respect to the excellent contribution made by Deputy Booth, I do not think be could even have read the amendment he was supporting—it appears to me as one of the greatest pieces of whitewashing it was ever attempted to put over a serious situation.

In the course of the amendment, the Dáil is asked to realise that "it has been the constant purpose of successive Governments"—successive Governments—"within the limits of the resources in money, personnel and accommodation available to them to remedy this situation". Can we here in Dáil Éireann ask what attemps have been made since this State was set up —not the date which Fianna Fáil always uses as the beginning of things, the year 1932, but since Dáil Éireann commenced? What attempts have been made in 40 years to train personnel for this task? Did nobody know 40 years ago, 30 years ago, 20 years ago, of the existence of this problem or is it a problem that has arisen only within the past year or so?

If this problem is one of recent origin and had not existed to an increasing degree over many years, one could take this amendment possibly as being a reasonable one, but in 40 years we have reached the situation in which I think there is one child guidance clinic and one qualified psychologist in the Republic of Ireland. There are a number of institutions and there is the Order of the St. John of God who for years have been doing their very utmost to cope with the problem with, I am very sorry to say, very little support from the State.

May I intervene? Do I understand that the Deputy is making that statement with the authority of the Superiors of the Order of St. John of God? He is not entitled to make it, unless he has their authority to do so.

The Deputy is making a statement and if the Minister objects, he can deal with it later.

I might not be able to deal with it, the Deputy is so long-winded.

The Minister had plenty of opportunity to talk but did not avail of it.

Possibly the remarks the Deputy has made so far are starting to impinge on the Minister's conscience. It is all very well to have a whitewashing amendment put down but that is not much consolation to the parents of children who may be told by others: "We have issued a White Paper; we are beginning to examine the problem and by the time you are all dead and buried, we may be getthing somewhere with it."

The Deputy's knowledge seems to be confined to what is in the White Paper.

The White Paper is an estimate of the situation but it does not appear to me to say what the Government propose to do.

However, the amendment goes on to say: "... notes with satisfaction the accelerating rate at which deficiencies in institutional accomodation are being made good, as well as the attention which is being given to the development of day-training centres..." There has been some acceleration and there has been some increased attention, but what I want to ask, as a Deputy concerned with the matter, is: is that acceleration fast enough and is the attention great enough? What has been done up to the present time to ascertain clearly and definitely the needs? So far as I understand the situation, this is an estimate of the number of children who may require specialised attention of some form or another, whether institutional, treatment at day centres, or specialised tuition because of the fact that the children are slightly retarded. What has been done to ascertain the number of children requiring such treatment? I fear that we are taking an average without any exact knowledge.

It has been admitted by spokesmen of Fianna Fáil here, that the staff are insufficient, that there are insufficient trained personnel, and it is agreed on all sides, I think, that the personnel to deal with this problem must be highly trained. May I submit at this stage that, in any effort to deal with the recruiting and training of personnel, the question of adequate payment, adequate salaries or wages, be included for consideration, because, in the matter of the general level of remuneration of those at present engaged in the nursing profession, whether they are nursing people suffering from ills of the body or of the mind, we have by no means been generous? Over the years, the situation has existed and continues to exist that trained expert personnel in these fields are leaving the country because of their conditions and because of their unsatisfactory remuneration.

In endeavouring to ascertain the needs, I should like to hear fairly and clearly what methods are considered to be most effective. I think it is necessary initially to get the cooperation of the parents, as was done when tuberculosis was an immediate and an acute problem. It is also necessary to obtain the cooperation of the teaching profession, and I have no doubt whatsoever that it will be gladly given, so far as it can be given. The cooperation of the schools medical officers is also necessary. I do not know to what extent that will be of value because I am afraid their visits and their opportunities of seeing the children are limited in the extreme because of the limitations of that service.

Certainly, so far as the city of Dublin is concerned, with regard to a vast number of young children— children in kindergarten and children of primary school age—there is a necessity for establishing, at a very early date, not one clinic, not one centre for diagnosis, but two, three or more. In dealing with the diagnosis of young children, I am advised that it is not sufficient to have a psychiatrist and a psychologist, because in many cases it has been found that children who are apparently suffering from some mental retardment are in fact suffering from a physical infirmity. Therefore, there must be full and adequate staffing.

I understand some arrangement has been made arising out of the discussions on this matter. I do not want to delay the House, but I want to say that the figures set out in the White Paper are an indictment of us here in this country. The figures themselves indict us. Therefore, even if the motion moved by Deputy D. Costello is one of criticism, in this matter of the well-being of children and the possibility of looking after them in the future, the motion should be accepted and should be accepted in the terms in which it has been moved, with a view to co-operation on all sides of the House.

I regret, therefore, that the amendment tabled by a number of Deputies, instead of dealing with the problem, instead of facing up to the problem, is an attempt to sidetrack the issue and to introduce into the discussion a question of direct Party politics. No Government up to the present day have anything to be proud of in relation to the problem of the mentally handicapped or mentally retarded children. A commission has been set up and it looks as if something will be done in the future, but surely the Government should hear our voices on this matter, first of all. Surely something should be done as a matter of urgency. These are the children of the nation and they are more entitled to the care and protection of the nation than other children or people who are fully able to take care of themselves. I support the motion.

This motion was put down for the purpose of directing attention to the inadequate facilities available to mentally handicapped children and it is in that spirit I believe it should receive the attention it deserves. The problem of treating mentally handicapped children is one that has existed for a considerable time but, for many reasons, public opinion has not been focussed sufficiently upon it. The inadequate arrangements which exist for treating these children are due to many reasons but particularly to the somewhat natural one that, in the past, many people regarded the fact that a member of a family was mentally handicapped as something to be kept quiet rather than exposed to attention. That attitude has greatly changed in recent years due to the development of proper corrective treatment and proper accommodation, and so on. That development has impressed itself on everybody interested in the problem and particularly on the unfortunate people who have the responsibility of caring for persons of this type. Much can now be done to alleviate the condition of these people. The facilities now available for corrective training can provide a much improved method of looking after these people, of rehabilitating them and of allowing them to take their place in the community.

The purpose of this motion is to direct attention to the fact that the facilities at present available in this country are entirely inadequate. There is no attempt to apportion responsibility to this Government or any other Government but the motion is put down in the hope that a recognition of that fact will act as an incentive so that all those charged with the responsibility of solving this problem will make the maximum effort possible.

The White Paper published by the Department of Health recognises the fact that not half the number of beds at present available or in prospect will suffice to meet the requirements. The number at present available and the number in prospect, amounting to a total of 3,200, falls below half the number required. In the estimated figures available, it is assumed that a total of 7,000 additional beds are required and the number at present available, in addition to the numbers shortly to be added, means that 3,200 beds will be available. That is less than half the requirement.

I feel we have a responsibility to see that sufficient money is made available for this purpose. I think it is right to say that no tribute can be too high to pay to the work which the Brothers of the St. John of God Order, the Sisters of Charity and the other persons who voluntarily undertake this work are doing and to the skill, attention and devoted care which they have displayed in their efforts to deal with this problem. Some years ago, because of the very serious effect which tuberculosis was having on the community, the most radical steps were taken and expenditure was incurred in order to deal with the problem. This problem has never impressed itself to the same extent on the community but it is a very real one and has brought much suffering and hardship to the persons concerned and their families.

It is for that reason that I believe we should approach this matter in a new way and that we should recognise the importance of treating it as a matter of urgency. The White Paper which was published is all right, so far as it goes. It deals with a number of matters which will require to be dealt with, poses some questions and leaves a great many unanswered. The litany of questions at the end of the White Paper, starting at paragraph 29, are matters that will have to be dealt with by experts, whether by the commission which it is proposed to set up or by the medical and other people who are qualified to express an opinion on the various matters there raised.

It is undoubtedly difficult not to come to the conclusion that there is too much complacency on this matter. If attention is paid to paragraph 16 on page 7 of the White Paper, some of the matters expressed there are most disappointing. There is a senseless effort to pass the buck from one Department to another and there is the usual jargon which is employed when State Departments wish to avoid responsibility. It says that because of the type of service they provide, certain services do not clearly fall within the ambit of the functions of the Minister for Health. Neither could they be said to be educational establishments and, as such, to come within the responsibility of the Minister for Education.

It goes on to say that as it could tenably be argued that as the centres provide care for mentally handicapped children, many of whom cannot be educated or trained and thereby provide relief for the parents of the children, they should be considered the concern of the Minister for Social Welfare. It adds that as the Minister for Health has, however, accepted responsibility under the Ministers and Secretaries Act for somewhat similar groups, such as senile and infirm persons and unmarried mothers and their children, it might, therefore, be appropriate for that Minister likewise to accept ministerial responsibility for the day centres, on the ground that they fall more clearly within the ambit of his functions than elsewhere. The community is not greatly concerned with which Department accepts responsibility. The Government as a whole have responsibility and the House, in voting money for this problem, in common with other health problems, has accepted responsibility for it. The main thing is to get action in order to provide additional accommodation.

Probably one of the greatest problems connected with this matter is that a great number of young people who are in institutions will be obliged to leave them when they reach 18 years of age. What will happen to them when they leave? The more fortunate will probably return to their families, if they are in a position to look after them. Others will be transferred to county homes where they will tax the accommodation which in most cases is overcrowded. What is even worse, the corrective training, the treatment they have been given, will largely be wasted because there is no facility available in these institutions for a continuation of the training or for a follow-up. Consequently, much of the useful and advantageous work already done in attempting to rehabilitate them will be wasted. That is a very serious aspect of this problem and one to which very little attention has been paid.

I know from recent experience that in some cases it takes up to three years for a person to be admitted to one of these institutions. That is very disturbing and it should impress on everyone concerned the urgency of the problem.

This motion was tabled to focus attention on the problem and to urge on the Government that the measures taken up to the present have proved inadequate. While we recognise that steps are being taken to provide additional accommodation, the statement in the White Paper admits that, even after the accommodation in prospect is provided, there will not be half the number of beds available that are required.

I said earlier that I am afraid the amendment to this motion has the hallmark of complacency. Whatever we do about this matter, we should not be complacent. Nobody has sought to exaggerate the difficulty of the problems. There is no question of making political capital out of it. This problem has existed for a number of years and successive Governments have made efforts to deal with it. The fact that the efforts up to the present have not proved sufficient does not mean we should rest and leave the matter as it is. In the past, other matters had to be dealt with as well.

At the moment and for the future, this is one of the problems which should merit far more vigorous attention than it has received up to the present. I am seriously concerned about what will happen to the very large numbers of young persons concerned. The fortunate ones will have spent some years, or some time in the shortest case, in institutions. They will be obliged to leave the institution when they reach 18 years of age. The institutions already available cater for persons up to that age. Many of them take children at 10 but they are obliged to leave at 18; others take them at a younger age. However, they must all leave when they reach 18 years of age. The serious question arises as to what will happen to them when they leave these institutions. Some of them will be taken back again into the home environment and a few may be fortunate enough to be looked after properly. In other cases, much of the money, care and attention, as well as a great deal of the skill, that has been devoted towards their rehabilitation will, to a very considerable extent, be wasted because no facility is available for follow-up treatment.

I want to quote a paragraph from the report of the World Health Organisation on Mental Handicap. It says:

Every child has the right to develop his potentialities to the maximum. This implies that all children, irrespective of whether or not they suffer from mental or physical handicap, should have ready access to the best medical diagnosis and treatment, allied therapeutic services, nursing and social services, education, vocational preparation and employment. They should be able to satisfy fully the needs of their own personalities and become, as far as possible, independent and useful members of the community.

I hope that we, as members of that organisation, will endeavour to ensure that the services and facilities we provide will enable that aim to be realised. I hope the Minister and the Government will accept this motion in the spirit in which it is moved, namely, in order to direct attention to the urgent problem which requires solution and for which, I have no doubt, the House and the country are prepared to make the necessary financial provisions to meet the needs of this very deserving section of the community.

Before the motion is put, I should like to make a brief statement on a matter of fact.

On a point of order. Deputy Cosgrave was called upon to conclude and has concluded. The Minister is entitled to speak only on a point of order.

I regret I must ask the indulgence of the House in this matter. Perhaps I should have risen before Deputy Cosgrave. Unfortunately, I was debarred from intervening because Deputy Larkin occupied so much of the time of the House.

That is not true.

He made a statement which I think should not be allowed to go uncontradicted. There is no foundation for his assertion that we have in any way been unsympathetic to the demands of the Order of St. John of God. The State—my predecessor as well as myself—has provided over £700,000 for that Order. We have asked them to open other institutions. They have been unable to do so because of their lack of personnel. We are very sympathetic and anxious to help and co-operate in this work. It is unfortunate that a member of this House should suggest that the Government are not prepared to co-operate with that Order.

Question put: "That the words proposed to be deleted stand".
The Dáil divided: Tá, 47; Níl, 65.

  • Barry, Richard.
  • Beirne, John.
  • Belton, Jack.
  • Burke, James.
  • Byrne, Patrick.
  • Byrne, Tom.
  • Carew, John.
  • Casey, Seán.
  • Coburn, George.
  • Coogan, Fintan.
  • Corish, Brendan.
  • Cosgrave, Liam.
  • Costello, Declan D.
  • Crotty, Patrick J.
  • Desmond, Daniel.
  • Dillon, James M.
  • Esmonde, Sir Anthony C.
  • Everett, James.
  • Fagan, Charles.
  • Giles, Patrick.
  • Hogan, Bridget.
  • Jones, Denis F.
  • Kenny, Henry.
  • Kyne, Thomas A.
  • Larkin, Denis.
  • Lindsay, Patrick.
  • Lynch, Thaddeus.
  • MacEoin, Seán.
  • McQuillan, John.
  • Manley, Timothy.
  • Mulcahy, Richard.
  • Murphy, Michael P.
  • Murphy, William.
  • O'Donnell, Patrick.
  • O'Higgins, Michael J.
  • O'Higgins, Thomas F.
  • O'Reilly, Patrick.
  • O'Sullivan, Denis J.
  • Palmer, Patrick W.
  • Reynolds, Mary.
  • Rogers, Patrick J.
  • Rooney, Eamonn.
  • Russell, George E.
  • Sheldon, William A.W.
  • Sherwin, Frank.
  • Sweetman, Gerard.
  • Tierney, Patrick.

Níl

  • Bartley, Gerald.
  • Blaney, Neil T.
  • Boland, Gerald.
  • Boland, Kevin.
  • Booth, Lionel.
  • Brady, Philip A.
  • Brady, Seán.
  • Brennan, Joseph.
  • Brennan, Paudge.
  • Breslin, Cormac.
  • Briscoe, Robert.
  • Browne, Seán.
  • Burke, Patrick.
  • Calleary, Phelim A.
  • Egan, Kieran P.
  • Egan, Nicholas.
  • Faulkner, Padraig.
  • Flanagan, Seán.
  • Geoghegan, John.
  • Gibbons, James.
  • Gilbride, Eugene.
  • Gogan, Richard P.
  • Haughey, Charles.
  • Healy, Augustine A.
  • Hilliard, Michael.
  • Humphreys, Francis.
  • Johnston, Henry M.
  • Kenneally, William.
  • Kennedy, Michael J.
  • Killilea, Mark.
  • Kitt, Michael F.
  • Lemass, Seán.
  • Loughman, Frank.
  • Carty, Michael.
  • Childers, Erskine.
  • Clohessy, Patrick.
  • Collins, James J.
  • Corry, Martin J.
  • Cotter, Edward.
  • Crowley, Honor M.
  • Cummins, Patrick J.
  • Cunningham, Liam.
  • Davern, Mick.
  • de valera, Vivion.
  • Doherty, Seán.
  • Donegan, Batt.
  • Dooley, Patrick.
  • Lynch, Celia.
  • Lynch, Jack.
  • MacCarthy, Seán.
  • MacEntee,Seán.
  • Medlar, Martin.
  • Millar, Anthony G.
  • Moher, John W.
  • Moloney, Daniel J.
  • Moran, Michael.
  • Ó Briain, Donnchadh.
  • Ó Ceallaigh, Seán.
  • O'Malley, Donogh.
  • Ormonde, John.
  • O'Toole, James.
  • Ryan, James.
  • Ryan, Mary B.
  • Teehan, Patrick J.
  • Traynor, Oscar.
Tellers: Tá, Deputies O'Sullivan and Crotty; Níl, Deputies Ó Briain and Loughman.
Question declared lost.

The words are deleted and I am now putting the motion, as amended, as follows:

That Dáil Éireann, while conscious of the fact that due to historical causes present facilities for the treatment, care and education of mentally handicapped children are inadequate, realises that it has been the constant purpose of successive Governments within the limits of the resources in money, personnel and accommodation available to them to remedy this situation; welcomes the Government's White Paper, entitled "The Problem of the Mentally Handicapped Children” outlining the several aspects of the problem and the progress which has been made in regard to it; notes with satisfaction the accelerating rate at which deficiencies in institutional accommodation are being made good, as well as the attention which is being given to the development of day-training centres; endorses the policy which the Government has outlined and is confident that it will be given effect to with all possible speed.

Motion as amended put and declared carried.
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