Second Stage?
Electoral (Amendment) Bill, 1961 —First Stage.
Leave granted to introduce a Bill entitled an Act to fix the number of members of Dáil Éireann and to revise their constituencies and to amend the law relating to the election of such members.—(Minister for Local Government.)
I suggest this day fortnight.
When will it be available?
I hope it may be available next week.
Could the Minister say if there is any intention to get this Bill through this House, and perhaps through the Seanad, within a particular period?
No.
That will be a matter for the House.
How long will we get to consider the Committee Stage of the Bill? Is there any desire on the part of the Government to pass the Bill before the taking of the new census——
No.
——or can the House deal with the Bill in the ordinary course, regardless of the new census?
You can forget the census.
We can give the Bill the ordinary consideration. Have any steps been taken to ensure that this one will be found to be constitutional?
That will be a matter for the House.
Mr. Ryan
I take it that the Government will not ignore the Constitution——
That will be a matter for the House.
It will be a matter for the Court.
It might be convenient to clarify one matter. Deputy Norton has referred to the Constitution with reference to the census. I gather from the Taoiseach's reply that he is quite satisfied that even though the new Bill has been introduced and is under discussion here at the time the census is being taken, it will create no constitutional problem. That is the Taoiseach's opinion. Does he propose to take the precaution of clearing this matter with the Supreme Court in the event of our consideration of the Bill extending beyond the date on which the census is taken?
The final figures from the census will not be available until next year and clearly we must have an Electoral Act before that.
Without commenting on the views expressed by the Taoiseach it remains true that the final decision on a constitutional matter of this kind rests with the Supreme Court. We have had the unfortunate experience in more than one Bill which was ardently canvassed in this House——
Championed by Fianna Fáil.
I introduce no note of acrimony. On these Bills being brought before the Court subsequently the Court expressed a view far different from those canvassed here. I think of the Sinn Féin funds Bill, our own recent Electoral Bill and other similar Bills. Perhaps the Taoiseach would consider whether it would not be better to bring this apparent ambiguity to the Supreme Court with a view to having it finalised before the general election?
Might I ask the Taoiseach if he has taken any legal advice which justifies the Government in believing that we can pass this Bill, and that there is every likelihood of its constitutionality being established by the Court, in spite of the fact that while we are passing a Bill of this kind another census is being taken? Whatever the results of the census may be, nevertheless on the day following the completion of the census there will be a new population figure. It may be difficult to get, but it is in existence because of the fact that we determined the population in the country the previous day. Is there any danger that, after going to all the trouble of passing this Bill, we may find that somebody else will plead in the court that this Bill is ultra vires the Constitution, because at the time this House was discussing it there was a new census taken, and while we may not know the figures nevertheless the population figures are there and could be established?
If I thought there was any danger of that, I would postpone the census.
In order to assist Deputies in their deliberations on the forthcoming Bill, would the Taoiseach consider making available to such Deputies as might require it a copy of the judgment of Mr. Justice Budd?
Some copies have already been supplied to the Deputy's Party.
By whom?
By me.
I should say that I asked the Taoiseach and he most courteously made available to me as many copies as I wanted. I have received three copies and I am sure if Deputies want copies they will be made available.
Certainly, I shall make them available.
I think we should all get them.
You did not ask for them.
Second Stage ordered for Tuesday, March 21, 1961.