May I say, first of all, that the practice that has been growing more and more of Ministers coming in here and reading speeches very speedily, without having the courtesy to submit them to those who have to speak immediately after them, makes very little contribution towards the possibility of good debate. The Minister for Finance read through his speech at such a rate that it would be quite impossible for anybody to take notes of what he said and to listen at the same time. I do not think it matters very much in this case because this is a technical Bill and the Minister dealt purely with technicalities. It is perfectly understandable that lay Ministers in relation to legal matters should read the brief because they might not be able to follow the technical aspects of the revenue code otherwise. I do not blame the Minister in the slightest for that, but I do think we should have a practice here, no matter who may be in Government, that when technical speeches of that sort are read they will be circulated at the same time so that there will be no difficulty in respect thereof.
The Bill introduced by the Minister is one with which, in its detailed provisions, I propose to deal more on the Committee Stage than today. However, there are certain principles involved in this Bill quite apart from the general Government policy in relation to it to which I want to make some advertence. The Bill, in respect of Section 17, is the final stage of the duplicity of Fianna Fáil with regard to the special import levies. Every single one of us knows that throughout the general election campaign of 1957 the canvassers on behalf of Fianna Fáil, particularly here in Dublin city, made it clear to the electors when they were seeking their votes that if only they were elected they would abolish forthwith the special import levies. We all know that, far from being abolished, they have been welded and moulded into the permanent taxation code. They have been changed from temporary levies to meet a particular and difficult situation arising from an international crisis into permanent indirect taxation. This Section 17 is the final act in that drama of duplicity by Fianna Fáil in-relation to those levies. I can assure the Minister that he and his colleagues will not be allowed to forget their duplicity in that respect.
The second point to which I want to refer in relation to the actual sections of the Bill is the abolition of the deduction for corporation profits tax. Anticipating no doubt that I would again make the comment I made on the Budget General Resolution, the Minister made a passing reference to this. No airy-fairy mixing up of the facts can prevent people realising that this abolition penalises a company which makes its money by manufacturing and supplying the home market compared with the company that invests all its capital outside the country. I know that both companies will get a benefit from a reduction in the rate of tax. Take, however, two companies with a profit each of £100,000 to be divided up amongst their shareholders. If a company carries on business solely in Ireland to supply the home market, then in relation to those profits of £100,000 it was liable to income tax only on £90,000 thereof. I am ignoring the trifling first £2,500 which is free of tax. That was because corporation profits tax was deducted before arriving at income tax liability for assessment.
The situation now is that that company has to pay corporation profits tax of ten per cent., which is £10,000, and then it has to pay income tax on the whole £100,000. In other words, it is paying on an income tax assessment which includes the corporation profits tax. On the other hand, for that company to wind up its business and to liquidate itself and for its shareholders to invest the whole of the money on the other side of the water they would have to pay tax on only £100,000, calculated by reference to the income tax rate, instead of having to pay that tax and a ten per cent. corporation profits tax. That is a bad taxation framework. We should not in any way make it more attractive for a person to invest outside Ireland.
When I raised this matter on the General Resolution, the Minister for Finance tried to confuse the issue by referring to companies that get export tax relief, and so on. Of course, they do and it is entirely proper that they should get it. It was started by me. However, that is not the point here. The point is that in framing the manner in which corporation profits tax is no longer deductible from income tax assessments—not income tax liability but income tax assessments—a penalty has been put on an Irish company and therefore on people who invest in Ireland vis-á-vis those who invest outside Ireland. That surely is an extremely bad principle of taxation. When the Minister was framing his Budget he should have framed his tax reliefs in such a way that that would be obviated. It would have been quite simple to do so.
The other section to which I wish to refer today is Section 29 which deals with stamp duty on transactions by non-nationals. I have no use whatever for this section in its present form. It contains what I shall assume is a clerical error. The Minister for Finance reached this part of his Budget speech at about 4-30 p.m. on the afternoon of Wednesday, 19th April, 1961. As the section is phrased, subsection (9) means that anybody who carried through a transaction on the morning of Wednesday, 19th April, 1961, is being made liable to retrospective taxation which I do not think is constitutional.
The Minister very properly made it clear that, as from the time of his Budget speech, any transaction that was carried through thereafter would be subject to the provisions he had indicated. In fact, he has introduced a Bill which means that anybody who concluded a transaction some hours before the Minister spoke is now subject to an additional penal taxation. I do not think the Minister intended that. I think the phrase "on or after the 19th April" is a mistake for "on or after the 20th April." What the Minister intended to do, I am quite certain, was to provide that the section would operate after he had given notice of it in the Budget and after he had passed the appropriate resolution in the Financial Resolution that was dealt with that day.
The second thing in relation to this section also concerns subsection (9). There is a long-established principle that where a person has any doubt about the proper stamp duty to be put on any document, or when the marking officer in the stamping office has any doubt, the deed or document is lodged for adjudication of stamp duty. Once it has been adjudicated and the denoting stamp of adjudication has been placed on the document, that ends the matter so far as everybody is concerned. This subsection does violence to that principle. It breaks it completely. I do not know the purpose of inserting it in that form but in lines 15 onwards on page 20 it is set out:
Notwithstanding that it may have been stamped already and irrespective of whether or not it has been stamped with a particular stamp denoting that it is duly stamped...
Once we break the principle of adjudication of stamp duty, nobody knows thereafter where he stands.
It is a well-established and very proper principle that documents in respect of which there is some doubt for stamp duty should be lodged and that the Revenue Commissioners would have an opportunity of examining the matter and of making their case. The solicitor concerned has his opportunity of making the case on behalf of the parties and then it is stamped and adjudicated and marked "judged duly stamped." To break that principle will mean the creation of uncertainty in all forms of examination of title which will be quite impossible and certainly not worth a candle in relation to the month that had expired since Budget Day.
The Minister will realise that the Bill covers cases between Budget day and the passing of this Bill, when enacted. It is certainly not worth while breaking the principle of adjudication merely to cover that period. The Revenue Commissioners should have given instructions that where anybody lodged a document which was doubtful in its application to nationals and non-nationals they should have refused to adjudicate upon it until after the passage of the Bill clarifying the Financial Resolution that was passed on Budget day. This device has been used in the Bill merely because it is a simple way of doing it, without any regard for the principle involved, and perhaps— I use the word "perhaps" deliberately —to cover up some mistake that may have been made in relation to a particular case.
I think Deputy Booth, who usually disagrees with me on most financial matters, will agree that to infringe the practice of adjudicating stamp duty will create untold trouble for everybody and is not worth while. Apart from that, the section is useless. We introduced a Bill quite a short time ago, which the Government opposed with their majority and threw out, for the purpose of being able to estimate accurately the extent of the problem that has arisen by reason of purchases of land by non-nationals in Ireland.
We are all agreed it is a problem that arises in relation to agriculture and industry. All of us are anxious that nothing whatever under any circumstances will stand in the way of industrial development. We want— and I made this clear when I was on those benches, even though I was criticised violently by Fianna Fáil from over here—foreigners to come in here when they have the technical know-how our people may not have and with that technical know-how to start industries of one kind or another.
But there is, undoubtedly, throughout the length and breadth of the land a very considerable uneasiness about the amount of agricultural land that has been bought by foreigners. There is very considerable uneasiness, which is impossible to allay or cover, because nobody really knows the extent of the problem. We wanted to set up a proper, formal register which would ensure that the magnitude of the problem with which we were dealing would be known, easily accessible or easily understandable. The Government decided to utilise their majority to throw out the Bill we introduced. They threw it out largely on foot of the argument made by the Minister for Lands that the Finance Bill was going to provide a far better solution.
This section provides no solution at all. Under the second Finance Act, 1947, there was a provision by which there was an exemption from the 25 per cent. stamp duty for companies that had been incorporated before the 15th October, 1947, regardless of the ownership of their shares. All that was necessary to incorporate in the Act was a section that the company had been incorporated—a perfectly straightforward method of dealing with the matter. Subsequently it transpired that that section was being used, perfectly legitimately and perfectly legally, for the purpose of non-nationals buying land here. The Minister has terminated that as from Budget date, and with that termination I am in entire agreement.
My objection to this section is that it does not cover the other loopholes. The certificate that a company was a pre-1947 company was a truthful honest and honourable certificate. There were other methods of dealing with the evasion of the duty that did not fall into the same category at all, and there has been nothing, and is nothing whatever in this section, to stop those loopholes or to cover up those difficulties.
I do not expect the Minister to understand the legal technicalities, but let me put on record two methods by which I could drive a coach and four through this section. I shall be kind to the Minister and shall not charge him 6/8d. for telling him the methods. The first is quite simple. A non-national wants to buy a property here for, shall we say, £10,000. He gets a national to buy that property and to put up £1. The non-national lends the national £9,999 on a mortgage which does not include a covenant for either the payment of the principal or the payment of the interest. The principal is to be payable by instalments, shall we say, and the first instalment is two months ahead.
The Irish national, having got the company in his name for two months, does not pay the instalments and the non-national legitimately goes into possession as mortgagee. There is no further stamp duty payable. Stamp duty on the purchase is at the rate of three per cent. because a national had the beneficiary interest at that time. The stamp duty on the mortgage was 2/6d. per cent. When the non-national at the end of two months obtains the beneficiary interest as mortgagee in possession, the situation is not covered by this section at all.
I shall give the Minister a second example. A non-national wants to buy a property, again, shall we say, for £10,000. A new company is formed with a share capital of £100. An Irish national takes up 51 shares and a non-national takes up 49 shares. The Irish national, with the majority share holding, proceeds to borrow from the non-national the balance of the purchase money. The Irish national promptly enters into a contract with the non-national in respect of his shares that he will not under any circumstance part with the beneficial ownership of the shares without first offering them to the non-national. Beneficial ownership remains, but that is only an option and it is not a confirmed option. I understand that one counsel in Dublin, who is supposed to be fairly clear on these matters, has advised that the beneficial ownership remains.
The company with the majority holding of an Irish national, therefore, need pay only three per cent in relation to that property. The non-national has complete control because, by virtue of the agreement, the shares cannot pass from the particular person concerned. If they do, they must be offered to the non-national to buy or he can, instead of buying them himself, get another Irish national to buy, subject to certain conditions. I know hundreds of cases in which one solicitor in Dublin has operated that transaction. I know other cases in which other solicitors in Dublin refused to do it, and correctly refused in my view, but there is nothing whatever in this Bill to prevent that operating again in the future.
I want to ensure that when this section is passed and leaves this House it is absolutely and completely watertight and that we have the proper means of keeping the proper register under Section 12. As the section stands, it is useless. I understand, although I have not got the details of it, that there is a third method already being evolved since this Bill was published of evading the section. The truth is that the means of dealing with this problem by the 25 per cent. stamp duty is the wrong approach altogether. The proper method of dealing with it would be to enquire from every person who was not an Irish national; and if he had any interest, outside the five acres surrounding a dwelling house, in land in Ireland, he would be bound to register his interests.
Some countries abroad even go so far as prohibiting non-nationals from buying land. I am not suggesting that, but I want to see the full measure of the problem. Certainly, under Section 29 there is no prospect whatever of seeing that measurement because anybody who wants to drive a horse and cart through the section can do so with very little difficulty indeed. Personally, I should like to go further in relation to this problem. I should like to make sure that the revision that is in subsection (12) is a revision not merely of cases that go on from now but of cases in the past and I think we should have provided a method by which similar transactions in the past would have to be recorded so that we would know where we stand.
While criticising the section vigorously in its present drafting I should say that, at the same time, I appreciate it is a difficult matter to draft a section which covers all the possible loopholes, but because it is difficult, it is not one that should be shirked and I hope it will not be shirked by the Minister in the immediate future. I should add that I have not the slightest objection to giving the Minister if he wants them particulars of one of the schemes that I know has been operated here already, a scheme which I refused point blank to put into operation myself. I know other solicitors who also refused. I think it would be undesirable that anything arising out of Section 29 in future under this Bill should create a standard which one person would accept and another would refuse.
The provisions in the Bill in relation to death duties are provisions that we could discuss more closely on the Committee Stage. I am glad however that the Minister has brought in Sections 24 and 25. Only in the very recent past I had the experience of realising the effect, following the Privy Council's decision in a case the name of which escapes me for the moment, which Section 25 is designed to cover. It was decided, I think, only last December.
It is entirely desirable from the social point of view that everything possible should be done to ease the transfer from parents to their sons, particularly in regard to farms. We want the younger generation to take over as soon as possible and if the mere reservation of the right of residence or as in that Privy Council case, the mere user of walking across is going to obviate any death duty save in relation to the transfer from father to son then very much fewer transfers will be carried out.
It is, therefore, essential that we should correct that recent decision and I am glad to note that in Section 24 the Minister is changing the law in that respect. The Minister, as I said on another occasion created, and dealt a great injustice to one person in the country. It was a relative of his who laid down the law in relation to Section 24 and it is a good thing now that, at least, we see that being changed.
I often wonder, in reading the White Papers which are explanatory of Finance Bills and which are very properly circulated, if there is anything in the form of the words used from time to time. Page 3 of the White Paper, for example, says that Section 21 is designed to "combat" but when you come to Section 22 and to other sections on page 2—Section 16 for example— you find "provides." Does that mean that the Revenue Commissioners are not so happy about the manner in which they have designed Section 21; that they are worried about their draftsmanship, that they are not as dogmatic in relation to that section as, for example, they are in relation to Customs and Excise under Section 16? If that is so—and it could well be so— it would be more politic not to give the game away quite so obviously as is done in that phrase. Apart from that, the other matters I propose to deal with in regard to the Bill itself I shall deal with on the Committee Stage.
I want to refer to some general matters which arise in respect of this Bill in so far as it adumbrates, specifies and defines financial policy on behalf of the Government. I refer, first of all, to a discussion that the Minister for Finance and I had on the General Resolution. In the Budget statement the Minister, at column 652, referred to the increase in our real output in 1959 comparing it with other European standards. On the General Resolution I challenged the accuracy of that statement and I explained to the Minister that I had been to the Library and had taken from the Library the latest volume that was—shall I say—available and open for inspection by me. The latest volume did not appear to bear out the Minister's statement. However, the Minister was good enough subsequently to send me a letter and I was able to get a later volume since the General Resolution debate. At the end of that debate the Minister will remember that I mentioned what I understood was the latest information available. It now appears from certain further documents made available to me that the Minister and I were both right—with this difference: the Minister was talking about general output for the year 1959. He was comparing—and congratulating himself and ourselves about it—the progress that had been made in 1959 with that made in 1958. It was not about the standard of 1959 that he was accepting congratulations; it was the increase in 1959 over 1958.
The figures which the Minister quoted are undoubtedly accurate but we all know perfectly well that we can get any figures, any statistics we like, by taking any particular datum year. None of us is so foolish as to forget that 1958 was a disastrous harvest year, that the weather was absolutely awful and to use a year, in which we had such appalling weather that it affected not merely our grain harvest in the Autumn but also our turf production, as a datum year and to preen oneself because in the following year we had done somewhat better than in the bad year, does not seem to me to be a realistic comparison.
In fact, the figures I was using are later figures but they refer, of course, I agree, to industrial production. But the figures to which I referred are figures dealing with the industrial production in 1960, compared with 1959. The point I was making then, when using those figures, was that it seemed to me that our industrial increase was petering out in 1960, that whatever movement there had been in industrial expansion—started, I would claim, by the moves some years before of bringing in foreigners with technical know-how, on the one hand, and tax incentives, on the other hand—was losing its momentum, and that the serious thing about 1960 was that the comparison at the end of the year, particularly in relation to the second and third quarters of 1960, showed that that momentum was obviously slowing up and that this Budget did nothing whatever to start that momentum and get it going.
The Minister has had an opportunity of considering and examining the statistics which I gave him that day, just as I have had an opportunity of examining his. As I say, my examination of his shows clearly that he was taking an increase in a datum year with a bad harvest. The Minister promised that he would examine my figures. I did not know whether he did or not but he had the intention—I will give him credit for that. He will see that they proved clearly that whereas the rest of Europe was achieving a great deal of momentum in 1960, with the exception of Belgium, because of the national strike, our momentum was slowing down and our industrial progress tapering off. Undeniably that is the picture that is to be found in Part I of the O.E.E.C. Statistical Bulletin for January, 1961. That, I think, is the relevant comparison: whether we are able to keep pace with the momentum of industrial expansion in Europe or whether we are not able to do so. I am afraid the pattern that was shown in 1960 by the January O.E.E.C. Bulletin shows clearly we are not.
I would add, of course, that that is not a view of mine only. The Minister will find, if he asks any Irish economists, that he will be told the same thing. It has been frequently referred to by Mr. Fitzgerald, who is sometimes quoted with great éclat by members of Fianna Fáil, and who has said it was obvious that the momentum of industrial expansion was slowing up in 1960. I think it was referred to in another statement by another economist, somewhere about three months ago, but the figures in the January Bulletin of O.E.E.C. make it clear, not merely in relation to our own position. We have had those statements which make it clear beyond question that while our momentum was petering out, in other countries in Western Europe it was accelerated. That is the point that I was making in relation to the general position. That is something about which this Budget does nothing, to increase the momentum and to get things moving again.
On the last occasion when dealing with the Budget, I referred to the fact that the Budget as such was a failure because it did nothing to ease the movement into the Common Market. We have had a great deal of discussion since in relation to the Common Market. The Taoiseach has made various speeches but all these speeches show, as he admitted in the House last week, that in fact he has done precisely nothing. The Greeks took 18 months to negotiate and discuss terms with the administration in Brussels before they had a problem upon which they could take a decision, before they knew what the situation was going to be. The Taoiseach accepts that we cannot take a decision on the Common Market until we know what the terms are likely to be, but under cross-examination in this House he said that he has taken no steps whatever to find out what those terms are likely to be.
It is an extraordinary and sad commentary on the efficiency of the Government that we have to wait for the German Federal Minister to come here and give a Press conference so that we can learn things about the Common Market, things that we could not learn from our own Government. It seems an extraordinary position that our Government have done nothing except make airy-fairy statements, that they have not made a firm inquiry and are not in a position to give firm answers in relation to any of the questions that must be posed to us all.