It is proposed to take Business in the following order, Nos. 12 (Vote 44), 13, 14, 6 and 50. It is proposed that consideration of Government Business be not interrupted to take Private Members' Business.
Order of Business.
With your permission, Sir, I wish to give notice of my intention to raise on the Adjournment the subject matter of Question No. 23 on the Order Paper.
I shall communicate with the Deputy.
I should like to say I am opposing the Government's notice of motion that Government Business be not interrupted today to take Private Member's Business. I should like to give my reasons for opposing this. I feel that the situation that has arisen with regard to recent actions and activities of the Attorney General makes it an urgent matter that this House should discuss Motion No. 40 on the Order Paper, which asks that the Dáil be given an opportunity of considering the decision of the Attorney General to appear for the defence of an insurance company in its practice of selling what the President of the High Court described as illegal gambling policies——
While the Deputy may oppose——
I merely wanted to read the motion for the benefit of Deputies. I did not intend to say anything more.
The Deputy may not go into the merits of any motion. He may oppose the decision of the Government not to give Private Deputies' Time.
I do oppose it, but I felt, in all fairness, that Deputies should know what my reasons were.
I should like to support Deputy McQuillan. This is clearly a matter of serious public perturbation. The position has arisen that there is a conflict on a very fundamental decision between the Minister for Industry and Commerce, who believes that certain practices are improper, and the Attorney General, who is contesting the legality of it.
I cannot allow this discussion.
It is a matter which should be clarified without delay.
This is a matter in which I feel I have a certain duty to intervene. Ordinarily, my view, and our view, would be that time should be made available for the discussion of Private Deputies' Business. But it has been the long-established practice of this House, going back over many years, as many years as I have been in it, at this time of the year when financial business is being disposed of, that Private Deputies' Time should be made available for the disposal of the Government business which must be completed if the House is to adjourn at all. Therefore, our Party would not support today a motion departing from that practice which is associated with the taking of business in which we are at present engaged.
I think it right, however, to say that where any responsible body of Deputies desires to raise a matter which in their opinion is something of urgent public importance, such representations are entitled to the very careful and sympathetic consideration of the Government of the time being, with a view to making appropriate time available to discuss such a matter, as in the opinion of that responsible body of Deputies, is for them a matter of urgent public importance. I have no doubt that if such a submission is made by any part of the Opposition to the Government such consideration will be forthcoming. We would certainly expect it in view of the fact we are prepared to support the general practice at present of reserving the available time of the House for the despatch of Government business.
While accepting it has been the general practice of the House not to have Private Members' Business during the time when financial business is being discussed, the Labour Party believe that time should be given at 9 o'clock tonight, on Private Members' Time, for the discussion of Motion No. 41, which I believe to be of much wider application than No. 40. The two, however, could be taken together. The Taoiseach must be aware of the grave public disquiet on this whole matter. The public are very much concerned about certain cases in the courts in which the Attorney General has been involved. For that reason we consider it a matter of urgency and believe that Private Members' Time should be given to discuss this whole matter on motion No. 41.
I certainly could not consider that suggestion today without any notice. The practice to which reference has been made has prevailed for forty years so no one can contend it is urgent.
This matter was brought to the attention of the House as a matter of urgency.
The Deputy will resume his seat.
Would the Taoiseach not consider it appropriate to say at this stage if a matter of urgent public importance were raised by responsible Deputies, that favourable consideration would be given to the possibility of providing time for its discussion if it was genuinely felt to be a matter of urgency?
The position is serious——
The Deputy has made a statement before.
There is a procedure under Standing Orders by which time can be secured for the discussion of matters of urgent public importance. The decision as to what constitutes a matter of this kind does not lie with me. In regard to the general question of Private Members' time, I hope to be able to inform the Dáil soon as to the business we contemplate dealing with during the rest of the session. It should then be possible to discuss with the Whips of the various Parties the possibility of making available, before the end of the session, time for the discussion of business proposed by Private Members. I must point out, however, that there is a great deal of business on the Private Members' section of the Order Paper and that it is ordinarily taken in the order in which it is set out on the Paper.
I accept the Taoiseach's wish to give time to private members at some future date in this session. But there is a certain urgency in this particular case. The matter is being contested in the Supreme Court in the very near future. We would like to have the matter decided one way or another before that.
I do not accept that.
Question put: "That Government Business be not interrupted at the time fixed for taking Private Members' Business."
The Dáil divided: Tá 60; Níl 16.
Tá.
- Aiken, Frank.
- Bartley, Gerald.
- Blaney, Neil T.
- Boland, Gerald.
- Booth, Lionel.
- Brady, Seán.
- Brennan, Joseph.
- Brennan, Paudge.
- Breslin, Cormac.
- Briscoe, Robert.
- Browne, Seán.
- Burke, Patrick.
- Calleary, Phelim A.
- Childers, Erskine.
- Collins, James J.
- Corry, Martin J.
- Cosgrave, Liam.
- Cotter, Edward.
- Crowley, Honor M.
- Cunningham, Liam.
- Davern, Mick.
- Dillon, James M.
- Doherty, Seán.
- Dooley, Patrick.
- Egan, Kieran P.
- Fanning, John.
- Faulkner, Padraig.
- Flanagan, Oliver J.
- Galvin, John.
- Gilbride, Eugene.
- Haughey, Charles.
- Healy, Augustine A.
- Hillery, Patrick J.
- Hilliard, Michael.
- Johnston, Henry M.
- Kenneally, William.
- Kennedy, Michael J.
- Kitt, Michael F.
- Lemass, Seán.
- Loughman, Frank.
- Lynch, Celia.
- Lynch, Jack.
- MacCarthy, Seán.
- McEllistrim, Thomas.
- MacEntee, Seán.
- Medlar, Martin.
- Moher, John W.
- Moloney, Daniel J.
- Mooney, Patrick.
- Mulcahy, Richard.
- O Briain, Donnchadh.
- O'Malley, Donogh.
- Ormonde, John.
- O'Sullivan, Denis J.
- O'Toole, James.
- Russell, George E.
- Ryan, James.
- Ryan, Mary B.
- Sweetman, Gerard.
- Teehan, Patrick.
Níl.
- Blowick, Joseph.
- Browne, Noel C.
- Burke, James.
- Carroll, James.
- Corish, Brendan.
- Desmond, Daniel.
- Kyne, Thomas A.
- Larkin, Denis.
- McAuliffe, Patrick.
- McQuillan, John.
- Murphy, Michael P.
- Norton, William.
- Sherwin, Frank.
- Tierney, Patrick.
- Tully, John.
- Wycherley, Florence.
Tellers: Tá, Deputies Ó Briain and Loughman; Níl, Deputies Browne and McQuillan.
Question declared carried.