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Dáil Éireann debate -
Wednesday, 28 Jun 1961

Vol. 190 No. 8

Ceisteanna—Questions. Oral Answers. - Emigration to Britain.

5.

asked the Taoiseach if he is aware that in the years 1958, 1959 and 1960, respectively, 58,316, 64,494 and 72,962 persons from the Republic of Ireland applied for new insurance and employment cards in Great Britain for the first time; whether he is further aware that these figures do not include members of families, who are not seeking employment, and school-going children, and that in consequence the number emigrating in all of those years is much higher than those figures; and if he will accept that the figures quoted represent minimum emigration from this country for the years in question.

6.

Mr. Ryan

asked the Taoiseach whether his attention has been drawn to the figures published on behalf of the British Board of Overseas Migration by the British Commonwealth Relations Office showing that the number of emigrants from this State who registered for the first time for employment in Britain were as follows: 1958 —58,316, 1959—64,494 and 1960— 72,962; and, if so, if he will accept that these figures represent an increase in the rate of emigration in the last three years.

With your permission, Sir, I propose to take Questions Nos. 5 and 6 together.

I am aware that the figures quoted in the questions under reply have been published in Britain, but I would direct the Deputies' attention to the reply to a somewhat similar question addressed to me in this House on the 4th May.

I said then that these statistics cannot be accepted as a measure of Irish emigration to Britain nor can they be reconciled with the known facts regarding the numbers leaving school in this country and the number of new social insurance cards issued here in each year.

The numbers of new social insurance cards issued here in the three years were 52,101, 54,190 and 56,107, respectively. If these figures are added to the British figures it is obvious that the totals are far in excess of the number of Irish-born persons entering insurable employment for the first time. The numbers in insurable employment in this country increased considerably over the same three year period.

It is clear that the British figures contain a large element of duplication and reference to the statistics relating to the outward balance of passenger movements by sea and air confirms the view, which I earlier expressed, that new emigration to Britain is probably nearer to half the British figures.

As I stated in reply to the previous question, the statistics relating to passenger movements for recent months show a considerable reduction of the outward balance.

In view of the publicity these figures have got, would the Taoiseach not take up the matter officially with the British Government?

That has been done. While the British statistics officials concerned concede there is a very substantial element of duplication, they say they are unable to calculate the extent of it.

Would the Taoiseach say, if he was Leader of the Opposition, that he would be seriously disturbed at the continuing rise in these figures?

Is the Taoiseach aware that the Migration Board, which prepare these figures, stated their attention had been drawn to certain reservations they ought to make in interpreting the statistics relating to the Irish Republic; that they stated that these figures were gross and do not take account of the outward movement from the United Kingdom to the Irish Republic? Further, is the Taoiseach aware that the figures include new entrants as well as re-entrants, take no account of people returning to this country and that it may be taken that the actual figure is below that calculated by the Board by about 50 per cent?

Is it not a fact that these figures apply only to new entrants? Was that not stated in the British publication?

No. They do not apply only to persons entering insurable employment for the first time.

Is Fianna Fáil living in the cloud cuckoo land of believing emigration is not proceeding at an unprecedented rate from this country and that whole families are going, as they have never gone before? If they are, it is time they woke up.

The Deputy may be relieved to know that the most recent figures relating to the outward balance of passenger movement by sea and air show emigration is now about 40 per cent. below what it was in 1956 and 1957.

(Interruptions.)

I see my neighbours going.

(Interruptions.)

Do the same figures not show that emigration was greater in 1960 than it was in 1959?

The point I am making is that up to the end of April of this year, the indications are that the outward movement, which, of course, would include movement to countries other than Britain, is about 25 per cent. below the corresponding period last year.

Is it not so because 200,000 have gone in the past four years, and have gone for ever, and therefore they are not here now?

The highest level of emigration from this country in this decade was in the years 1956/57.

(Interruptions.)

That is the Irish Press figure.

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