Dáil Éireann debate -
Wednesday, 19 Jul 1961

Vol. 191 No. 8

Committee on Finance. - Vóta 42—Roinn na Gaeltachta.

Aire na Gaeltachta (Gearóid Mac Pharthaláin)

Tairgim:

Go ndeonfar suim nach mó ná £375,980 chun slánaithe na suime is gá chun íoctha an mhuirir a thiocfaidh chun bheith iníoctha i rith na bliana dar críoch an 31ú lá de Mhárta, 1962, le haghaidh Tuarastail agus Costais Roinn na Gaeltachta, maille le Deontais le haghaidh Tithe agus Ildeontais-i-gCabhair.

Taispeánann an Meastachán don bhliain seo méadú de £41,240 glan ar an soláthar a rinneadh don bhliain seo caite. Sé an chúis is mó atá leis an ardú sin ná méadú de £31,300 a bheith sa soláthar le haghaidh Tithe Gaeltachta agus méadú de £16,400 a bheith sa soláthar le haghaidh Scoláireachtaí Saoire agus Scoile sa Ghaeltacht. Tá méadú de £5,000 sa soláthar le haghaidh Coláistí Gaeilge agus tá méadú de £9,525 sa soláthar do Thuarastail agus Costais na Foirne. Ina gcoinne sin, áfach, tá laghdú de £20,000 sa soláthar do Scéimeanna Feabhsúcháin sa Ghaeltacht.

Éiríonn an breis-soláthar do Thuarastail agus Chostais Taistil toisc a bheith riachtanach don Roinn foireann sa bhreis a fhostú chun déileáil leis an méadú in obair na dTithe a tháinig de thoradh an Achta nua a ritheadh sa bhliain 1959. Fairis sin do b'éigean don Roinn post tar-uimhreach do Phríomh-Oifigeach a chur lena teachlachas mar tá Príomh-Oifigeach tugtha ar iasacht do Ghaeltarra Éireann. Ina chás siúd, áfach, aisghnófar ó Ghaeltarra Éireann an tuarastal a híocfar leis an bPríomh-Oifigeach sin ón Vóta seo agus glacfar an t-airgead a haisghnófar amhlaidh chun creidis mar Leithreasa-i-gCabhair don Vóta — Fo-mhírcheann N 3.

Faoi Fho-Mhírcheann C déantar soláthar le haghaidh deontas faoi Achtanna na dTithe (Gaeltacht). Sa bhliain airgeadais 1960/61 críochnaíodh 167 dtithe nua, feabhsaíodh 300 tithe, cuireadh soláthar uisce i 149 dtithe, cuireadh saoráidí séarachais i 145 tithe, cuireadh seomraí folcaidh feistithe le huisce te i 113 tithe, feabhasaíodh an córas sláintíochta i 4 tithe, agus rinneadh méadú speisialta ar 19 dtithe. Fritheadh ós cíonn 2,100 iarratais nua i rith na bliana, is é sin 500 níos mó ná sa bhliain roimhe, agus tháinig méadú mór ar an líon cásanna inar tosnaíodh ar an obair. Ceadaíodh deontais de luach tuairim is £217,000 i thart ar 1,700 cásanna i gcomparáid le deontais de £126,000 in 800 cásanna sa bhliain airgeadais roimhe sin. Cuireadh tús le Scéim na Seallaí Saoire agus Scéim na mBrúnna agus táthar ag súil go rachaidh na Scéimeanna sin chun cinn go maith sna blianta atá romhainn.

Tháinig méadú arís ar an gcaiteachas faoi na hAchtanna ó £84,864 i 1959/60 go £136,000 i 1960/61. Is léir ó na figiúirí atá tugtha agam cheana go mbeidh méadú arís ar an obair sa bhliain airgeadais seo agus meastar gur gá £181,000 a sholáthar chuige i mbliana.

Is cúis sásaimh dom an dul ar aghaidh atá á dhéanamh sa ghné seo d'obair na Roinne agus an feabhas atá ag teacht dá bharr ar chúrsaí sa Ghaeltacht.

Is as Fo-mhírcheann D a cuirfear an t-airgead ar fáil i mbliana le haghaidh Scéimeanna Feabhsúcháin sa Ghaeltacht. Rinneadh soláthar de £150,000 do na scéimeanna sin anuraidh ach níorbh fhéidir ach timpeall dhá dtrian den soláthar sin a chaitheamh mar níorbh fhéidir scéimeanna áirithe a thabhairt chun críche chomh luath agus a bhí beartaithe. Meastar anois gur leor £130,000 in aghaidh na bliana le haghaidh na Scéimeanna sin. Tá súil agam gur ag dul i bhfeabhas a bheidh an taobh sin den scéal feasta.

D'ainneoin an laghduithe sa soláthar, áfach, ba mhaith liom a rá go mbeidh mé toilteanach gach scéim rathúil a molfar don Ghaeltacht a mheas go báúil agus nach gcuirfear aon mholadh fiúntach i leataoibh cheal airgid.

Tá na Scéimeanna Feabhsúcháin sonraithe i gcuid a III den Mheastachán. Chífear go bhfuil an soláthar céanna á dhéanamh i mbliana le haghaidh na mbóthar agus a rinneadh anuraidh. Is do bhóithre áise is mó atá an soláthar seo agus sa bhliain seo caite, d'íoc an Roinn £31,000 as bóithre áise agus timpeall £5,000 as bóithre contae. Tá an-éileamh i gcónaí ar na hoibreacha sin.

Tá ísliú de £5,000 sa soláthar a moltar i mbliana le haghaidh uisce-sholáthair nó séarachais. Níor caitheadh ar na scéimeanna sin anuraidh, áfach, ach timpeall £10,000 — sé sin timpeall £9,400 ar scéimeanna móra réigiúnacha agus timpeall £600 ar mhion-scéimeanna. Ní mór glacadh leis go mbíonn moill ag gabháil le hullmhú scéimeanna fairsinge i gcúrsaí uisce-sholáthair agus nach féidir bheith ag súil leis go mbeidh cásanna aibidh i mbliana le haghaidh níos mó ná an £20,000 d'íoc astu. Is eol dom, ámh, go bhfuil go leór réamhoibre á dhéanamh fé láthair i ndáil le húllmhú scéimeanna nua a bhéas ag teacht isteach i ndiaidh a chéile amach anseo.

Le haghaidh na muir-oibreacha moltar an soláthar céanna i mbliana agus a rinneadh anuraidh. Caitheadh timpeall £12,500 ar na hoibreacha sin an bhliain seo caite agus táthar ag súil le dul ar aghaidh mar an gcéanna i mbliana.

Níl ach £15,000 á sholáthar i mbliana do na Tithe Gloine i gcomparáid le £30,000 anuraidh. Caitheadh thar £20,000 ar na tithe gloine anuraidh; ar an bhfiche teach atá á dtógáil i gConamara agus an dá theach déag i dTuar Mhic Éadaí. Táthar sásta gur leor an soláthar de £15,000 don obair atá le déanamh i mbliana.

Trí mhíle, cúig céad punt atá á sholáthar i mbliana faoi Scéim na Muc. Dáileadh 75 chráin san iomlán anuraidh agus táthar ag súil le 113 chráin a dháileadh i mbliana.

Tá ísliú sa soláthar don Scéim Solais agus Teasa. Ceapadh an scéim seo le haghaidh na n-oileán nach féidir an leictreachas a sholáthar dóibh mar atá á dhéanamh don tuaith i gcoitinn ach táthar tar éis riachtanais na n-oileán sin a shásamh anois agus níl gá le níos mó ná soláthar comharthach don scéim i mbliana. Ní miste a mhíniú gur chuir an Roinn bun-trealamh solais agus teasa ar fáil faoin Scéim do thuairim 650 teaghlaigh ar na hoileáin Ghaeltachta agus gur ghlac na teaghlaigh uile go fonnmhar leis an Scéim. Tuigtear dom chomh maith gur cheannaigh suas le leath na dteaghlach sin trealamh breise dhóibh féin.

Chífear go bhfuil méadú de £2,500 san iomlán a moltar le haghaidh Meánscolaíochta. Tá san áireamh i mbliana scéim nua trína gcabhróidh an Roinn le húdaráis meánscoileanna sa Ghaeltacht chun cóir taistil a chur ar fáil do dhaltaí a mbíonn aistear fada le déanamh acu chun freastal ar mheánscoil. Íocfaidh an Roinn suas go dtí 80% de chostas ceadaithe na seirbhísí iompair.

Táthar ag moladh £7,500 le haghaidh Hallaí Siamsa i mbliana. Tá sé seo níos ísle ná an soláthar a rinneadh anuraidh ach tá forbairt na scéime seo níos moille ná mar a bhí coinne leis agus ní raibh de chaiteachas uirthi anuraidh ach £3,750. Táthar sásta de gur leor an soláthar de £7,500 i mbliana.

Tá méadú de £2,000 sa soláthar do scéimeanna ilghnéitheacha. Áirítear iontu siúd taitneamhachtaí cosúil le páirceanna imeartha, linnte snámha, piniúirí liathróid láimhe agus a leithéid a chur ar fáil do mhuintir na Gaeltachta. Tá san áireamh iontu freisin trialacha talmhaíochta a ceapadh le haghaidh maoth-thorthaí agus fataí luatha a fhás sa Ghaeltacht, agus is astu a tabharfar cúnamh airgid i leith aon togra eile a nglacfar leis i rith na bliana.

Ba mhaith liom ar an ócáid seo mo bhuíochas a ghabháil arís leis na Coistí Áitiúla, na Coistí Talmhaíochta Contae, na Comhairlí Contae agus na heagraíochta eile a chomhoibríonn leis an Roinn chun na Scéimeanna Feabhsúcháin éagsúla atá luaite agam a chur i bhfeidhm.

Faoi fho-mhírcheann E den Mheastachán tá £2,000 á sholáthar arís i mbliana chun deontais bheaga a thabhairt le haghaidh imeachtaí cultúrtha agus sóisialacha, mar shampla, deontais le haghaidh Feiseanna agus Féilí Drámaíochta agus cúnamh airgid chun oirnéisí ceoil agus a leithéidí a chur ar fáil do Choistí Áitiúla sa Ghaeltacht.

Tá £48,000 dá sholáthar faoi fho-mhírcheann G le haghaidh an deontais £5. Níl aon athrú anseo ón soláthar a bhí ann anuraidh.

Chífear go bhfuil méadú go dtí £10,000 sa soláthar faoi fho-mhírcheann H le haghaidh Coláistí Gaeilge sa Ghaeltacht. Cé nár caitheadh ach timpeall leath an tsoláthair a bhí ann chuige sin anuraidh meastar go mbeidh riachtanas leis an suim sin i mbliana.

Moltar soláthar de £100,000 a dhéanamh i mbliana mar Dheontas-i-gCabhair do Ghaeltarra Éireann. Is ionann an soláthar sin agus an méid a híocadh le Gaeltarra Éireann anuraidh mar Dheontas-i-gCabhair. Féadfaidh na Teachtaí eolas a fháil faoi imeachtaí an Bhoird le linn na bliana 1959/60 ó Thuarascáil agus Cuntais an Bhoird don bhliain sin a tíolacadh don Oireachtas le déanaí, amhail mar a foráltar le Alt 31 (5) agus Alt 32 (1) den Acht Um Thionscail na Gaeltachta, 1957. Cé go dtaispeánann na Cuntais sin go raibh laghdú sna díolacháin sa bhliain 1959/60 tuigtear dom go bhfuil feabhas ag teacht ar an scéal sin de réir a chéile anois, cé gur féidir nach mbeidh an feabhas sin le tabhairt faoi deara sa Tuarascáil agus Cuntais don bhliain 1960/61 a tíolacfar don Oireachtas chomh luath agus is féidir é i mbliana.

Níl aon athrú ar an soláthar a moltar le haghaidh Taispeántas Drámaíochta Gaeilge agus ní dóigh liom gur gá dom aon rud a rá faoi.

Faoi fho-mhírcheann M den Mheastachán tugtar cúnamh do Choistí Áitiúla chun scoláireachtaí saoire sa Ghaeltacht a thabhairt do pháistí ó áiteanna lasmuigh den Ghaeltacht. Le roinnt bliana anuas tá líon na bpáistí a bhíonn páirteach sa scéim sin ag dul i méid agus i mbliana tá soláthar de £10,050 á mholadh di i gcomparáid le £8,600 a soláthraíodh anuraidh. Fairis sin do cuireadh scéim thrialach ar siúl anuraidh trínar chuir Gael-linn timpeall 300 páistí ag freastal ar scoileanna éagsúla sa Ghaeltacht ar feadh téarma scoile amháin do gach páiste. Tá beartaithe an scéim sin a leathnú i mbliana ionas go gcuirfear suas le 1,050 páistí chuig scoileanna Gaeltachta — gach páiste acu ar feadh téarma scoile amháin. Íocfaidh mo Roinn deontas nach mó ná £19 le haghaidh gach páiste, faoi réir uasteora de £19,950. Mar sin, idir an dá chuid den scéim seo, beidh £30,000 san iomlán ag teastáil i mbliana.

Is sontasach an feabhas a tháinig ar shaol mhuintir na Gaeltachta faoi rialú dúchasach. Is beag teach scoile sa bhFíor-Ghaeltacht go mb'éigean é a dhúnadh cheal dóthain tinrimh — ach b'éigean cuid acu a fhairsingiú de bharr méadú líon na ngasúr. Má tá eolas níos fearr acu ar an mBéarla anois, tá sé amhlaidh de dhroim bearta oideachais a ceapadh amach d'aonturas chuige sin. Ach níl siad ag tréigint na teangan náisiúnta agus ní thréigfidh an fhad is a bhéas Éire fré chéile gníomhach chun a hathbheochana.

Chíonn siad go bhfuil fás marthannach gach uile Shamhradh i ndiaidh a chéile ar líon na bhfoghlaimeoirí a thaganns mar chuairteoirí ina measc. Scaipeann na cuairteoirí seo a lán airgid ar fud na Gaeltachta. Ní bheidh mé sásta go mbeidh chuile theaghlach sa nGaeltacht ag coinneál foghlaimeoirí, Samhradh i ndiaidh Samhraidh, agus cuid mhaith acu á gcoinneál i rith na bliana chomh maith.

Is ionann sábháil na Gaeltachta agus scaipeadh na Gaeilge ar fud na tíre. Má tugtar suas den iarracht cé thógfadh ar mhuintir na Gaeltachta tabhairt suas freisin? Tá eolas anois ag aos óg na hÉireann ar dhá theangain, agus táimid ag teannadh leis an am nuair a bhéas an oiread Gaeilge ag lucht na Béarlachta is atá de Bhéarla ag lucht na Gaeltachta. Is é an t-oideachas an tairbhe is marthannaí agus is buaine is féidir a chur ar fáil do aos óg na Gaeltachta.

Ar an ábhar sin tá meánscolaíocht dá soláthar dóibh. Ar an gcaoi seo béidh sé ar a gcumas chur isteach ar chuid mhaith de na postanna oifigiúla agus tráchtálacha atá coibhrithe don sórt sin scolaíochta agus, dá bharr sin, coinneofar tuilleadh acu in Éirinn. Teastaíonn an t-oideachas leanúnach, freisin, leis an mbrabach is fearr a bhaint as a bhfuil de bheartaíocht ann do leas gheilleagrach na taoibhe sin tíre. I ndáil leis seo, béidir go mbeidh sé inspéise a lua go bhfuil liaison curtha ar bun idir an Roinn agus an Foras Talúntais.

Is cúis sásúlachta liom nach bhfuil gníomhacht an Fhorais coibhrithe don Achréidh, ach go bhfuil spéis faoi leith aige i saothrú an tsléibhe agus an phortaigh, agus tuiscint dá réir sin aige dó. Is obair fhoighdeach í seo, ach le cabhair an Fhorais agus comhar na gcomharsan beifear ag súil le toradh maith uaithi.

Tá an dubhshraith bainte, agus táthar ag tógáil uirthi. Tuigeann muinntir na Gaeltachta go bhfuil an oighreacht náisiúnta is uaisle ina gcúram siadsan. Táim sásta go bhfuil meas ag an gcuid eile den náisiún ar an oighreacht sin. Má déantar gníomh de réir an mheasa sin, déanfaidh cúpla glúin eile le cúnamh Dé, Gaeltacht den tír fré chéile.

Pádraig Mac Loingsigh

Tairgim go gcuirfear an Meastachán siar chun a athbhreithnithe. Tairgim freisin go gcuirfear Tuarascáil agus Cuntais Ghaeltarra Éireann le haghaidh na mblianta 1958/59 agus 1959/60 faoi bhráid na Dála.

An Ceann Comhairle

Beidh an Tuarascáil ós ár gcomhair — an Tuarascáil atá ar an bPáipéar. Beidh an substaint ós ár gcomhair.

Pádraig Mac Loingsigh

Tuigim. Ag éisteacht leis an Aire, ba shoiléir nach raibh rud ar bith sa ráiteas ach urnaí agus beagán maitheasa. Táim anbhródúil as an gceantar stairiúil inar rugadh is inar tógadh mé — ceantar Riocaird Bairéad, an file, agus ceantar Sheáin Uí Ruadháin a scríobh an leabhar clúiteach úd Pádraic Mháire Bhán, leabhar ina bhfuil scoth Ghaeilge Mhuigheo, atá i mbaol a báis faoi láthair.

Ar feadh na mblianta ceanglaíodh an Ghaeilge, an teanga, le cúrsaí polaitíochta. Ceanglaíodh an teanga go mór mór le cúrsaí Fhianna Fáil. Ní raibh ansin ach cur i gcéill. Mar a déarfá, cuireadh dallamullóg ar na daoine, ach rinne sé an-díobháil don teanga. Tá mé lánsásta faoi sin. Cuireann sé masmas ar go leor daoine agus d'éirigh siad ina haghaidh nó chaill siad suim inti. Ba mhaith liom an méid seo a rá. Ní le Fianna Fáil an teanga. Is linn uile í, agus, arís, lig dom a rá gur linn uile í. Má fhaigheann sí bás is tubaiste náisiúnta é gan dabht, ach má fhaigheann an Ghaeltacht bás is cinnte go bhfaighaidh an teanga bás freisin.

Is é seo an cúigiú Meastachán do Roinn na Gaeltachta ón Rialtas. An bhfuil pointe nua ar bith ann? An bhfuil ann dóchas ar bith do mhuintir na Gaeltachta? An bhfuil feabhas ar bith ar staid na teanga? Ar tógadh aon bhreis mhór tithe sa Ghaeltacht? Ar bunaíodh aon tionscal ann — aon tionscal nua? Ar cuireadh fostaíocht ar fáil do mhórán eile de mhuintir na Gaeltachta? Tá a fhios againn go léir na freagraí ar na ceisteanna sin.

An ndearnadh aon rud go mbeadh dóchas ar mhuintir na Gaeltachta dá bharr? Tá siad ag imeacht ina mílte, bliain i ndiaidh bliana. Níl rud ar bith fiúntach á dhéanamh chun an Ghaeltacht a chur ar a bonnaibh. I mo bharúilse tá deireadh le dóchas na ndaoine.

Nuair a bunaíodh an Ghaeltacht ar dtús agus nuair a ceapadh mise im Aire, shíl mé go raibh seans agam faoi dheireadh rud maith mór a dhéanamh ar son mo chomharsana agus ar son daoine eile ar fud na tíre a bhí sa chás céanna leo. Tháinig athrú rialtais agus ní raibh deis againn an rud maith mór sin a dhéanamh.

Sé an tuairim a bhí againn nach raibh ach an t-aon slí amháin ann chun sin a dhéanamh — an Ghaeltacht a chur ar bhonn ceart eacnamaíochta. Chun é sin a chur i gcrích mholamar gnó na Gaeltachta a aistriú go Bord a bheadh ní amháin éifeachtach ach a mbeadh an dearcadh ceart náisiúnta aige agus gan aird aige ar chleasanna polaitíochta. Is mí-ámharach mar a tharla. Níor ghlac an Rialtas leis an seans. Níor thug siad aird ar bith orainne ná ar mhuintir na Gaeltachta. Is Roinn éadóchais í Roinn na Gaeltachta.

Bunaíodh í leis an nGaeilge a chaomhnú agus a leathnú. Bliain i ndiaidh bliana bhí suim mhór airgid gan caitheamh. Cad chuige? Is admháil béal dúnta é sin i mo bharúil nach féidir le muintir na Roinne slí ar bith a cheapadh chun an t-airgead sin a chaitheamh ar mhaithe le muintir na Gaeltachta. Cén fáth nach bhfuil an tAire sásta é a chaitheamh. "Mair, a chapaill, agus gheobair féar" a deir an seanfhocal ach "bás, a chapaill, ceal féir" polasaí an Aire anois. Mura bhfuil a fhios ag an Aire agus ag a chuid comhairleoiri conas an t-airgead atá sa Vóta a chaitheamh, inseoidh mise dóibh conas é a dhéanamh.

Cuiridís deireadh leis an deontas cúig phunt. Tá sé ina scéim cúig phunt rófhada. Tá a fhios againn go léir go bhfuil laghdú ar luach an airgid agus uime sin ba cheart scéim ocht bpunt a dhéanamh de. Rud eile, ba chóir an deontas a thabhairt in aghaidh gach páiste trí bliana d'aois in áit seacht mbliana. Tá go leor teaghlach sa Ghaeltacht a labhraíonn Gaeilge lena gcuid páistí go dtí go dtéann siad ar scoil. Dá gcuirti an scéim i bhfeidhm ó aois trí bliana ní chosnódh sé níos mó ná an méid a spáráiltear sa Vóta gach bliain.

In speaking to this Estimate for the Department of the Gaeltacht, I am conscious of the desire at all times that the proceedings of this House in relation to the Department of the Gaeltacht and, indeed, in relation to any other Department, where it might be possible, should be conducted entirely in Irish. The newspapers of this country are, by and large, the most exact barometers of public opinion that we can find. I recall that on the Estimate for the Department of Education last year Deputy Jones, in his constructive speech exhaustively covering the whole field of education, spoke entirely in Irish and in not one Irish newspaper was his name mentioned. He had several constructive things to say about education. It was a pity his remarks were lost in the lack of publicity that attended the fact that he spoke entirely in Irish.

I come myself, as I have already said in Irish, from an historical part of the country, linguistically, at any rate, and from a literary point of view. I come from the country from which there is still extant the beautiful poems of Richard Barrett of Gorthamore. I come from the village of Seán Ó Ruadháin who is still happily with us the author of Pádraig Mháire Bhán which contains the cream of the Irish language. I wonder how many Deputies have read Pádraig Mháire Bhán? I wonder how many have read the poems of Richard Barrett, the most notable of which is Eóin Cóir. I am sure the number if an exact census were taken, would be appallingly small.

As I said, when speaking in Irish, when I was afforded the opportunity and the very distinct privilege of becoming Minister for the Gaeltacht I thought I was on the threshold of realising the dreams that first impelled me into public life in order to be able to do something for my neighbours and those people in other counties similarly situated economically. I believed, and the Government to which I belonged believed — and we have not changed our views since — that the method by which the Gaeltacht can most effectively be saved is to establish there a sound economic policy consistent with the raw materials available, the capabilities of the people and not alone their local but their national aspirations

It was with that idea in mind — feeling that it was trammelled by the Civil Service, a feeling which, by the way, no longer can be so confidently justified — that we set up a board to deal with the affairs of Gaeltarra Éireann, the activities of which were largely confined to the Gaeltacht. I have been accused many times here of ulterior and base motives in drawing attention to the affairs of Gaeltarra Éireann as I found them under Seirbhísí na Gaeltachta and as I still continue to find them under Gaeltarra Éireann, a semi-State board.

I want to tell the House and the country that my interest in these matters dates from a date far behind my first election here. Deputies will readily understand that interest when I tell them that there is situate, first of all, in the village at home where my family attend Mass, where we do our shopping, a Gaeltacht knitting industry. It is now run by Gaeltarra Éireann in the village of Geesala. I live a mile from that village. There is another in Belmullet, in the same barony. There is one in Muings, Carrateigue, Pollathomas and Bangor-Erris. Dotted all around me are these little centres of local industry originally initiated by the Congested Districts Board.

I saw the way that work never seemed to increase. There never seemed to be any great increase in the number employed. I was conversant with the appalling wages that were paid. I was equally conversant with the excellent work turned out by the girls working in those centres. I felt that if ever the opportunity came, as it did come, I would try to do something not alone to increase the employment content but to increase and ameliorate the conditions of employment. Those were my motives when I began my work. Those are still my motives.

So long as there are people in my part of the country and, to my knowledge, others similarly placed, the same kind of people — in Donegal, Galway, West Cork or anywhere else — where young members of the families of smallholders or labourers in those districts can find employment, I shall be relentless in my efforts to see that things are conducted in such a manner that the very best possible results will be obtained for them. Therefore, I do not speak here in anger. I speak in sorrow as to the results that have been achieved in that regard.

The principal preoccupation in the areas of the Gaeltacht with which I am conversant at the moment appears to be the desire to get a ticket out of it by car, bus, rail, boat or plane at an emigrant fare to the cities of England or to the cities of America. It interested me greatly — an interest that was accompanied with a certain degree of shock — that at last some local person with no political interest —if anything politically favourable to the present Minister for the Gaeltacht —complained that not enough English was being taught in the Gaeltacht. That statement was made in Tourmakeady at the conclusion of an Irish week there which the Minister for the Gaeltacht attended and performed the closing functions.

I suppose there are people who would have accused that young enterprising merchant in Tourmakeady of being anti-Irish and of wanting to establish English in the Gaeltacht. There are people who would dispose of the views he expressed by calling him a "shoneen." I am sure the Minister for the Gaeltacht was shocked not alone to hear the statement made but to find that it was made in pursuance of an established conviction that emigration is the only future for the young people of the Gaeltacht, that they should be fitted out educationally in English for the conditions of the land to which they will have to emigrate.

No other interpretation of that spontaneous utterance by that courageous young man is possible than that emigration is now accepted as an established procedure in the Gaeltacht and the congested areas, in the absence of any planning on the part of the Department. There does not appear to be any planning in a Department which does not spend its full Vote in the year. This is the kind of Department I should expect to come back in the course of a year looking for a substantial Supplementary Estimate in order to deal with the pressing matters in the areas which the Department was set up to guide, advise, protect and extend. But no, that has not happened. We hear the same old story and we have the same old subheads.

It is true that there has been an increase in housing grants, but side by side with that increase, it has been made more difficult for people to obtain these grants. The hairsplitting that goes on about Irish being the language of the house, whether it is strong, whether it is weak, or whether it should be treated as a case of half and half is really appalling.

The situation is such that a man in the Gaeltacht of Connemara may marry a woman from East Galway or anywhere else—even from Cork—who is not proficient in Irish because it has not been her spoken language. She comes to the Gaeltacht to live and bring up a family. The husband may speak perfect Irish, and the children may go to the local school and, with his help and the teachers' help, become proficient in Irish, but just because the mother who has chosen to come into this Gaeltacht area, from better land probably, and from a place in which the conditions of life are probably easier, is not proficient they are penalised. That is not doing the Irish language any good. The children will grow up in bad housing conditions and they will be told it was not possible for them to get a new house because their mother did not know Irish or did not have an opportunity of knowing it. They will very soon drop the language.

I appeal even at this late stage to the Minister to exhort his housing inspectors to allow some degree of the human element to enter into their examinations. I do not want them to make it easy to obtain a grant but I want them to make it an encouragement and an inducement to learn the language. I do not want it to be a fraud as it would be if grants were given indiscriminately to households which did not have any Irish at all. I want them given in an environment where an effort is being made, where the local school is situate in the Gaeltacht and all subjects are taught through the medium of Irish, and where Irish is the common language of the people. The Gaeltacht housing grants should be an encouragement and an inducement to learn the language.

The remark I now want to make would probably be more appropriate to the Vote for the Department of Education. The Department of the Gaeltacht, either by way of advice to, or in conjunction with, the Department of Education, should revive the summer courses for teachers. If the people are anxious to establish an all-country Gaeltacht, as is the pious exhortation at the end of the Minister's speech, it is highly desirable that the Department of the Gaeltacht, again in conjunction with the Department of Education, should immediately engage in a revision of teaching methods.

I was speaking some time ago to a gentleman from Israel. On the setting up of the new Israeli State, they were confronted with tremendous difficulties in re-establishing their language as the spoken language there. The degree of success attained by them is worth studying in order to see if by their methods, or by some adaptation of them, we could improve the situation here in regard to the Irish language. Let us not cloak the facts for one moment. The situation is that the Gaeltacht is dwindling and the number of people speaking Irish in their everyday lives is rapidly becoming smaller.

For goodness' sake, do not mind what people say on the census forms because, with an eye to the future, people will say on census forms something which is not a fact at the present time. We are not at all the saints we are made out to be in this island, and when it comes to what one might call census manoeuvring, we might well be termed scholars. I ask the Department to keep a particular eye on the Statistics Office in that regard. The most wonderful story ever known of the success of Irish will be found and when the facts come to be published, I have no doubt in the world that the number of Irish speakers will be found to have increased beyond all comprehension. But that is not the fact. It is only something that is put on a census form with an eye to the future in case at some future time someone might be entering for something for which Irish is a sort of blue card, as it were, an Open Sesame, and a person might be confronted at some future time with the fact: "You said on the census paper at such a date that you did not know Irish. How do you come to know it now?" Those are the things that have to be watched and when those little absurdities are killed, we may expect to make some progress in regard to the Irish language.

I mentioned housing but I want particularly to deal with the question of holiday chalets. I think the Minister replied to a question yesterday put down by Deputy Desmond in this regard. This Gaeltacht Housing Act is a good one and the facilities offered to the people are substantial, particularly the financial ones. I thought the grants in respect of the chalets were a bit low having regard to the rising prices and all the rest of it. However, when I find that in the whole of the Gaeltacht of Donegal, Mayo, Galway, Kerry, Cork and Waterford there were, in the first place, only 27 applications for these chalets—14 were granted and seven refused—and that in reply to a supplementary question I am told—I may be wrong in this; I am open to correction by the Minister now—there are only six of them finished or nearing completion, that is bad and the Department will have to have some sort of reassessment of this business.

I would not like to state positively and categorically that this whole chalet business is a failure but certainly it has not gone off to the start I am sure the Department expected and that I expected. I have been advocating in my own Gaeltacht, at any rate, the importance of tourism there. It is of extreme importance and anything this Department would do towards the development of tourism in these beautiful areas, with their scenic amenities, if not unrivalled certainly on a par with any in the world, would be welcomed. We must be given the weather but weather not-withstanding, even in regard to the restoration of Irish, there is a sort of mystic quality that goes with the hills, the glens, the streams and the roar of the sea. All these things are important in a people's make-up and tourism is extremely important in an area such as this.

The people should be advised in these areas to provide their own home-made bread and their own butter, their own bacon and such fish as they can get for the tourist, instead of silently dispatching some child out of the house to the local shop in the event of having to give a stranger a meal at a price. In the Gaeltacht we give for nothing or we do not appear to give at all. Asking people to pay for a meal outside the recognised hotels and guest houses is something the people do not appear to have adopted so far. Instead of sending to the local shop for a piece of cold ham, a loaf and maybe a bit of cake that is there for a week, the people should provide their own cooking and what they produce themselves. Otherwise the stranger gets the impression that this what the people eat themselves every day. What is good enough for the people of the Gaeltacht in their ordinary every day life, should be good enough for the visitors who come their way, and it is. I have heard visitors say so and that is an aspect of the development of the Gaeltacht to which particular attention should be given.

There are people who would say that that would militate against the use of Irish. Of course it would militate against the use of Irish as between the resident of the Gaeltacht and the visitor but it does not prevent a native of the Gaeltacht turning to his mother and father or turning to a son and talking in Irish to them instead of to the visitor. You see that happening in every country in the world where one member of a family who is able to speak the language of the visiting stranger turns round to the other members of the family and says to them in their language what he has been saying to the stranger. It is something that should be watched but it is not necessary that it should be regarded as something that will do them damage.

I have dealt with the reasons for which I first took an interest in the affairs of Gaeltarra Éireann. I am sure Deputies who have been listening to me so far today, if they have not been bored, are at least surprised that I have been so mild in my approach to this whole matter so far. I propose to continue to be mild, at the same time devoting very close attention to the affairs of Gaeltarra Éireann in spite of the admonition I received from the Sunday Review last Sunday that I should give up the whole miserable affair and that, coming from Mayo, I should be the first to recognise stone walls. I recognise stone walls but I am not afraid of them and if the whole machinery of the Department and of Gaeltarra Éireann is so geared as to become a Sunday Review stone wall through which I cannot go or over which I cannot leap I am still un-afraid to have a try.

This Board of Gaeltarra Éireann was set up under legislation to which all sides of this House gave approval. It had been initiated by the last Government under Deputy Costello's administration and, if my recollection serves me right, the heads of the Bill were there ready. The present Government carried on obviously recognising the merits of the case for such a Bill. It came into being and I must confess I was shocked when I saw the list of its first directors. The first chairman got out as fast as he could. No explanation has been given since for his getting out although I pressed very hard for it on the occasion of this Vote last year. It was not forthcoming on the simple basis that Mr. Briscoe did not tell us and I did not ask. Mr. Briscoe left and there has been no permanent chairman of this Board since:

The Chairmanship and the managing directorship of this board has been undertaken alternatively by the permanent head of the Department of the Gaeltacht, the Secretary of the Department. Recently I was pleased to see that after a long absence Mr. Fitzpatrick who used to be assistant director in the Gaeltacht Services when it was run by the Civil Service was brought back as managing director and I saw in that for the first time a gleam of hope that there was somebody brought in with some knowledge and some experience. As far as the rest of them — I do not want to go through them individually — I think the whole country knows they must have been selected strategically and geographically in the interests of Fianna Fáil, not to mention certain other relations of either consanguinity or affinity. Of course in the reports themselves we have the evidence of the failure of this board and its alternating chairman and managing director and I propose to exclude straightaway from any observations which I intend to make the present managing director, Mr. Fitzpatrick, who has nothing whatsoever to do with these two accounts before us today.

What does the Minister say in his address to us today of Gaeltarra Éireann? It is common knowledge that everybody engaged in this country in the manufacture and sale of tweeds, knitwear and linen is successful and doing good business but Gaeltarra Éireann, with all the resources that the State can provide for it as a semi-State body is losing sums of money every year that are really astounding. From the year 1958-59 to the year 1959-60, as on page 7 of the accounts for 1959-60 we see a drop in the total sales from that year to the next of £30,154. That should not be if this organisation were properly managed and if it were being conducted properly. Of course it is difficult—and that is something the public do not know—to see any other result when the person who was the sales manager up to recent times in Gaeltarra Éireann was one and the same person whom I, in full agreement with the acting chairman of the board and the then permanent head of the Department, as a result of a Departmental inquiry, dismissed from the service of Gaeltarra Éireann as an agent.

That was the sales manager who was brought back and the sales are gone down from one year to the next by £30,154. All that was due not to lack of knowledge but to sheer neglect of Gaeltarra Éireann business while most of the time was being devoted by this person to a very extensive business of a similar kind of which he was principal shareholder. You can dismiss people for misconduct or for any reason that is consistent with a breach of the contract into which they entered. However, it should not be possible, on a change of Government, to have a person brought back into the service because he is a friend of somebody—I am not talking about Gaeltarra Éireann; I am enunciating a principle—in spite of the fact that that person has been dismissed as a result of a departmental inquiry ordered by a Minister, the findings of which were concurred in by the departmental head. Changes of Government do not change standards of morality. In passing, may I say that even though this person has now left Gaeltarra Éireann, for what reason I do not know, he is still on the Taoiseach's invitation list to official receptions in Dublin Castle, there misconducting himself as he did in Gaeltarra Éireann.

An Ceann Comhairle

That surely does not arise.

Gearóid Mac Pharthaláin

I am not responsible for the employees of the Board. If individual names are to be mentioned one by one, it is most unfair, and I should have been warned.

Mr. Lindsay

The Minister knows perfectly well he is a well-known friend and collaborator of the recently retired sales manager of Gaeltarra Éireann.

Gearóid Mac Pharthaláin

Is féidir liom bheith cáirdiúil le daoine agus gan bheith gangaideach leo.

Mr. Lindsay

In his seven-page speech the Minister devoted slightly over a third of a page to the affairs of Gaeltarra Eireann and this is what he says:

It is proposed to provide £100,000 this year by way of Grant-in-Aid for Gaeltarra Éireann. This amount is the same as that paid as grant-in-aid to Gaeltarra Éireann last year.

Here comes the gem:

Deputies will obtain information of the proceedings of the Board during the year 1959-60 from the Report and Accounts for that year which have recently been presented to the Oireachtas in accordance with Sections 31 (5) and 32 (1) of the Gaeltacht Act, 1957. Although these accounts show a reduction in sales in 1959-60 I understand that the position now shows a gradual improvement, although this improvement may not be evident in the Report and Accounts for the year 1960-61 which will be presented to the Oireachtas as soon as possible this year.

We are told: "You will get information from the accounts." Speaking last year on the Estimate, I brought to the Minister's notice certain aspects of the accounts of 1958-59 which seemed to me, as a layman in the matter of accounts, as not being a real picture. In fairness to the Minister, let me say he promptly undertook to look into the matter and to let me know what the situation was. In the 1958-59 accounts the losses were down to £82,000. On the first view that would appear to be a very satisfactory situation and indeed for a little while I felt like doing a little bit of private boasting, that we had been the people who thought of this legislation to set up the board and I was about to say: "Well, now, were we not right"? I congratulate the Minister, my successor, for actually setting up the board and bringing this business to such a wonderful stage of fruition — only £82,000 of a loss as against something like £130,000 or £140,000 the year before. Nobody could refrain from saying: "This is marvellous. This is a great board in spite of what we thought about them."

The Minister undertook to look into the matter and he did. That was on the 10th June, 1960. On the 14th July I asked the Minister "if pursuant to the undertaking he gave in the Dáil on the 10th June, 1960 to have the published accounts of Gaeltarra Éireann for 1958-59 investigated he will state the position regarding the accuracy or otherwise of the said accounts". The Minister replied to me:

Níl mé go fóill i riocht raiteas mar sin a thabhairt.

In other words, he was not ready to make a statement of that kind yet.

I then said: "Perhaps the Minister would be able to give it to me if I repeat the question next Tuesday." The Minister slipped into English, and said: "I do not think so." I stated: "I shall repeat the question." Then Deputy Dillon came into the picture and referred to certain findings and remarks made by him as Chairman of the Public Accounts Committee, whereupon the Minister said that he had given an undertaking that he would examine it. I kept on pressing; I asked did that mean the Minister will not be in a position to clarify the situation before the Houses went into Recess and the Minister said: "That seems likely." In point of fact the House went into Recess and we got no further information. I repeated my question on 20th July, 1960, and the Minister told me that inquiries were still proceeding and that he was not in a position to make a statement. We went into Recess.

I kept on making these inquiries about these particular accounts and it was not until 16th March, 1961, when the Parliamentary Secretary to the Taoiseach, Deputy Ó Briain, replying for the Minister, stated that the figure standing at £82,000 odd as losses for Gaeltarra Éireann in 1958/59 was not the correct figure; that it was too little by some £14,114. Anxious to find out where this mistake occurred — I believe it was a mistake and I am prepared to concede that much, but it was a mistake which I shall show should not have occurred — I wanted to know to what particular items this amount was to be attributed. I was informed by the Minister in reply to subsequent questions that it referred to the toy industry section only of Gaeltarra Éireann.

The Minister did make inquiries and he did have revaluation done. In the course of these inquiries there was an examination of the stock, unaltered from 1958/59 to the date of the inquiry, in the factory at Kilcar and in the stores at Teelin and Dunkineely. I need not go into the various items under the headings of "Wool Waste", "Oil", "Unfinished Tweed", "Finished Tweed" and so on. It transpired that there was an over-valuation in respect of them to the extent of some £12,000 odd. I will give the Minister the correct figure and ask him to deny it, if he so wishes. The over-valuation on 31st March, 1959, was £12,086 2s. 7d. Why did not the Minister tell me there was an over-valuation there as well as an over-valuation in the toys? He knew it. That information was at his disposal when I asked these questions. The idea obviously was to confine the over-valuation to a branch of this industry where it might be possible to show that it was a genuine mistake, namely, to the toys.

I think it would be a good thing now for the Minister to tell us exactly how that mistake was made. I know how it was made. I know where certain calculations for other purposes outside of the accounts were included with the actual valuation and we accordingly get an over-valuation of the toys to the tune of over £14,000. If you add that £14,000 to the £82,000 you get bigger losses than are shown in the balance sheet. If you add the £12,000 odd for the over-valuation at Kilcar, Teelin and Dunkineely you will get bigger losses still. Mark you, I have no knowledge of the over-valuation that was deliberately done in order to bring losses down on paper with regard to knitwear, linen and lace.

I asked the Minister questions in the course of the year about the half-yearly position with regard to losses in Gaeltarra Éireann and the Minister told me that Gaeltarra Éireann were not obliged under statute to keep half-yearly accounts. That, of course, was not what I asked. I asked if he would let us know what the losses were at 30th September, 1958. The Minister did not answer that question. He said he would not ask Gaeltarra Éireann to give an account they never published. That would, of course, have been perfectly legitimate if it was not at the time well-known to the Minister and well-known to the Board of Gaeltarra Éireann, in conjunction with whom he was conducting an inquiry most minutely, that on the 30th September, 1958, Gaeltarra Éireann was showing a loss for the year 1958/59 of £71,223. Having regard to that fact, and it is a fact, how could it be regarded as a reasonable mistake to make to say that they lost only £11,000 in the next six months, making a total of £82,000? That is where I ask the House to think, that is where I ask the country to think, that this statement of a loss of £82,000 was a little more than a mistake and was, on the part of someone or other, a deliberate action in order to cloak accounts.

Not alone in regard to Gaeltarra Éireann but in regard to all the other semi-public bodies, Córas Iompair Éireann, E.S.B., Bord na Móna, and so on, we have the customary parliamentary procedure being adopted in the reply: "As this is a matter concerning internal trading, I would not ask them." I asked questions about debts due and debts written off by Gaeltarra Éireann in the course of the year. I was told it was an internal trading matter.

The position with regard to the accounts of Gaeltarra Éireann is such that when anybody challenges them they fold up; they are not certain. Within the last year they bluffed their way to the threshold of the court and then, when they saw that the plaintiff was serious about the allegations he was making and that he could substantiate them and that it would be bad for business that these allegations should go forth, they paid the total of the amount claimed plus a very substantial sum for costs.

The system being adopted by them with regard to the issue of credit notes to various people is nothing short of disgraceful. A person has only to say: "This garment is unsuitable. It is not according to specification. It is not in accordance with the warranty given. It has faded. Something has happened." It is sent back; no questions; out goes a credit note. What becomes of these garments that go back in large numbers to Westland Row? That shows that this body has no confidence in what it is making and has no confidence in its ability to prove to the public that its goods are as good as any other.

The whole situation is an extremely sorry one and one which merits very close examination. I said that I hoped this Board would have a national outlook and would be competent, but on the face of things the display of competence here is far from great. Gaeltarra Éireann is riddled with political friends and close relatives of the Fianna Fáil Party. They may well have got there on merit with interviews specially framed and questions carrying high marks suited to certain applicants. They may well have got there on merit on that basis but it is a rather curious coincidence that they all happen to come from the same body of political thought.

I shall now deal with the correct losses of Gaeltarra Éireann. There are people within the employment of Gaeltarra Éireann who know perfectly well that before the end of June of last year, at a time when the Minister said he could not make any statement in regard to the £82,000 loss which I queried and which he could not in fact make until the following March, 1961, it was a matter of common agreement within Gaeltarra Éireann that losses for 1958/59 should stand around £147,000 instead of £82,000 as published and now admitted as wrongfully published. There may be some reason for this. I do not think it is a good thing that these things should be withheld from the people. The people should know if the losses are great and they should be told why. Such losses might well be inevitable.

With regard to these two accounts, may I make another observation? The 1958/59 account is the first account published for this company. The 1959/60 account is the second and last one published. If the accounts were designed to be documents from which information could be easily gleaned, they would follow in certain sequence, headings would remain the same and there would not be different terms used in one as against the other. But, there is, I am convinced, buried in the accounts of 1959/60 a sum that represents further losses and which is covered in some way here by these figures. It might well be possible that they are contained in the statement on page 10 where "lúide díluachadh" is entered at £40,656, having been entered at £21,135 the year before.

I invite people to look at the footnote on page 10 which, in effect, says that a different system of costing has been arrived at and that as a result there was an increase in the value of finished goods of about £31,821. That, of course, is complete fake in order to cover other heavy losses. If a person has something in his shop or store valued at £100 and he owes £200 and somebody challenges him and says he is not solvent, all he has to do is to alter the valuation and to say that the stuff in the store is worth £250 on a new method, about which we are not told anything as to how it works, and suddenly he becomes solvent overnight merely by adopting some other system or changing the value of something.

The House requires to be told more minutely about this particular method. It is noteworthy that the note is signed by only two members of the Board and by the Secretary and Accountant.

There is no sequence. Of course, putting the £14,000 that they say was a mistake the year before, into the 1959/60 accounts as losses that do not relate to the year's trading is just a little piece of book-keeping camouflage which just will not get by. This is the kind of thing that makes people lose confidence in bodies such as this. In fact, I do not think the people have any confidence in this body at all and I do not blame them. In fact, it is one of the avenues where public moneys are being expended that will have to be carefully re-explored, re-examined and re-assessed.

It has been suggested here that statements made from time to time by me are reckless, without foundation. It has been suggested on one occasion by no less a responsible person, totally divorced from recklessness of any kind, than the Tánaiste, Deputy MacEntee, that I had the life of a man on my hands. I leave it to the public to judge that matter. But if somebody is accused of directing them to make wrong statements and is caught up in a mesh of fraud, out of which he cannot extricate himself, and he decides to end his own life, that is a matter he has brought upon himself.

The Minister and his predecessors have made a very grave mistake in treating all this matter on a political basis. They should have welcomed an inquiry when it was first asked for. They should have got it going. Had they done so, they would have found they would not have had to withhold matters from the public under the guise of their being internal trade. I asked the Minister several other questions, some of them personal questions, which I shall not go into. I suppose he cannot be blamed for using the guise of internal trade to hide them. We are doing reasonably well in toys, but in tweeds and knitwear we should be doing ten times as well as we are, if things were being properly run.

As I said, the Minister made a mistake in treating this matter politically and protecting people behind a political smokescreen that should not have been allowed into any business. Had that not been done, they would have come out of this much better, as would we all in the political life of the country. When things like that happen, we are all dubbed with the one brush as being people with low standards who allow things to pass just because they have been happening for a long time, who allow low standards to become the highest standards by practice.

Those principles are entirely wrong. They must be corrected by somebody at some future time if there is to be any hope left to the Irish people in their public men. An inquiry would have revealed there was something wrong and Gaeltarra Éireann would probably be bringing in accounts to-day that would not be open to suspicion, that would be good accounts and on the accuracy and veracity of which the public could rely. As I said, I have been warned by a Sunday newspaper circulating here to drop "this miserable affair". It is a miserable affair. This is the last occasion in the reign of this Government on which I shall be addressing myself to this question. If I have pursued it with tenacity, I have done so as a matter of conscience. Given the opportunity, I shall pursue it further.

If I am being told by the barometer of the public press that I should recognise a stone wall, it is a scandal that even the Attorney General, in relation to the affairs of Gaeltarra Éireann in the one and only court case he saw fit to bring the case, behaved like Sigurani in the Wilma Montesi case in Rome in 1953, 1954 and 1955. When the facts appeared to be going against him, he directed his counsel to withdraw. It is a pity that the levels have been brought so low. It is a pity that it is being accepted, even by the public Press, that a Government appears, a Department of State appears, the Attorney General appears and everybody appears to have the right to form themselves into a stone wall through which and across which the arrow of truth may not pass.

Mr. O'Donnell

My intervention in the debate will be very brief indeed. During the course of the twelve months just ended, I, in conjunction with many other Deputies representing Gaeltacht areas, have had occasion to make representation to the Minister and his Department for improvement schemes in these poor areas. I know what the people of the Gaeltacht of Tír Conaill are going to say when I go back and tell them that, out of £150,000 voted last year for improvement schemes, only £100,000 is being spent. Fifty thousand pounds is being returned to the Exchequer and the reason given by the Minister to-day is: "It was not utilised because some schemes could not be completed as early as had been intended."

We have a stiurthóir in the Gaeltacht and we have many officials. We are crying out for employment there. But here some £50,000 is returned to the Exchequer simply because the works could not be completed during the year. In other words, the works had not begun in time and the money is only allocated when they know it cannot be spent. Is it not a crying disgrace that the £50,000 voted by this House for these poor, unfortunate people, who are compelled to seek employment across the water in Britain, has been returned to the Exchequer? What will my friend, the Deputy from Connemara, say when he goes back and tells the people of Rossmuc and Carna that his Minister, who also represents the same county, was unable to spend that £50,000 extra last year? I know what the people who are crying out for roads in the Rosses and Gweedore will say when I tell them that £50,000 was returned to the Exchequer.

It is a shame that these schemes were not begun in time and completed before the year ended. It is something the Minister should not allow to happen. I note he has now reduced the amount allocated for improvement schemes by £20,000. In other words, we voted £150,000 last year but could spend only £100,000. Therefore, that is the excuse for voting only £130,000 this year. If we take the £130,000 and take into account the £50,000 unexpended last year, does it not mean that only £80,000 is being voted for improvement schemes in the coming year? Again, we will find that some of that £80,000 will return to the Exchequer for the simple reason that the work will not be commenced in sufficient time. Is there not laxity on the part of some office? Surely schemes that have been voted and sanctioned one year, and where the work is not carried out, should be commenced early in the following year? But, despite that, £50,000 is returned to the Exchequer, and that is the excuse offered for reducing the Vote this year by £20,000.

Among the schemes introduced by the inter-Party Government to provide employment in the Gaeltacht was one for the allocation of seine-net fishing boats. I do not know whether I am wrong in accusing the Minister of discontinuing this scheme. It may be the baby of the Minister for Fisheries and his Department. But I know the scheme was introduced for the purpose of improving the livelihood of fishermen living in the Gaeltacht areas. I think it was a very good scheme whereby boats were supplied to the Gaeltacht without the usual deposit of five or ten per cent.

These boats cost anything up to £12,000 and it is very difficult for fishermen to procure the deposit. It was a scheme in which I had great faith in so far as the fishermen of the Gaeltacht were concerned, but I cannot see any mention of the Gaeltacht boats in the Minister's speech today; not one solitary sentence refers to them. What has become of the scheme? Is it the usual practice, that because it was initiated by the inter-Party Government it should be dropped? I would like to know where are the boats that were provided annually in the days of the inter-Party Government and why the scheme then initiated has been dropped. It is something about which the people of the Gaeltacht will require an explanation.

In the Gaeltacht of Tir Conaill we looked forward to the spreading of the greenhouse scheme. Personally I did not approve of the scheme at the beginning. I always said it would never be a success until heat was installed and, since heat has been installed, they have become an economic success. Why have we not expanded the scheme? I am thinking of the island of Arranmore where migration is probably at its highest, and not only migration but also emigration. I always thought it would be an ideal site for one of the greenhouse schemes. It is lying under the sun and sheltered from the western gales. I always thought Arranmore was a place where we could have experimented with an extension of the greenhouse scheme. I think I know the reason nothing was done. There is a small pocket on the island in which Irish is not spoken and the stiúrthóir of Roinn na Gaeltachta has decided to punish the entire island simply because English is spoken in the harbour village. However, perhaps some other Minister in some other Government will see that justice is done for the island of Arranmore.

Deputy Lindsay referred at length to the administration of the Gaeltacht housing grants. I do not wish to make accusations against the Gaeltacht housing inspectors but there is no child on whom there is more faitiós or shyness than the child in a Gaeltacht House. When an inspector calls at these houses and speaks to children in a dialect to which the children are unaccustomed—and children in Donegal are not accustomed to the southern or western dialects, particularly the younger children — and when they are addressed by an Irish speaker from a different Gaeltacht, this shyness overcomes them and they do not answer. Very often the people have been refused the Gaeltacht housing grant on the grounds that Irish is not the spoken language of the family. That is most unfair and many a time I have said in this House that we should appoint officers to the Gaeltacht only from that particular Gaeltacht, or officers who are accustomed to speak in the Irish of that particular Gaeltacht.

The Minister should busy himself with the fact also that Gardai from different Gaeltachta are being posted to Gaeltachta where their dialect is not understood and they are not getting the confidence of the people and not being the success they should be. There should be no difficulty whatever in finding Connacht-speaking Gardai to man the barracks in Connacht and the same applies to Ulster and Munster. Sending a man from Ballyferriter to the Gaeltacht of Donegal where his dialect is completely misunderstood, is absolutely useless and doing more damage to the language than would have been done if they sent an English speaker to the place. The Minister, who is really the liaison officer between the various other Government Departments, should busy himself with those matters. If he did, he would be doing a good deal for the language. Let us face facts. Has the boundary of any Gaeltacht extended within the past 30 years? Instead of extending, the boundaries are contracting and no people know that better than those who frequent the Gaeltacht. I know it is a problem and it is going to be a problem to retain the Irish language as a spoken language.

I remember speaking in this House some 10 years ago when I advocated that we should subsidise the sending of children to the Gaeltacht throughout the year and not only during the summer months. I suggested that every bean a'tighe in the Gaeltacht should become a hotelier or a boarding-house keeper, and that by doing that we would be helping the Gaeltacht economy and have every square inch of ground tilled to provide vegetables and root crops to feed these children.

I am glad to note that the Minister, although rather late in the day, refers to this on page 7 of his speech when he says:

I shall not be satisfied until every household in the Gaeltacht accommodates students every summer and until many of them also provide accommodation throughout the year.

It is some ten or eleven years ago since I first advocated this scheme on this Estimate and now it is still a hopeful prayer of the Minister. Why has something not been done? It is one of the methods whereby we can save the language and also retain the residents of the Gaeltacht.

Let me refer to another matter which is causing great concern to the people of the Gaeltacht. For some years past the hand-knitting industry has been a success, apart from that of Gaeltarra Éireann. There are distributors of wool who distribute it among the knitters in the Gaeltacht who are able to earn a few pounds in the week. What is the Government's latest method of attack on the people? The social welfare officer is going around endeavouring to ferret out every penny earned by these unfortunate knitters and if the menfolk are in receipt of unemployment assistance, old age pensions, or I.R.A. pensions, the earnings of the unfortunate knitters are assessed against the means of the menfolk who are recipients of these pensions, or of home assistance, and they automatically lose the pensions which they have been receiving.

An Leas-Cheann Comhairle

The Deputy will appreciate that that is the responsibility of the Minister for Social Welfare and that the Minister for the Gaeltacht——

Mr. O'Donnell

I fully appreciate that, but as I said before, the duty of the Minister for the Gaeltacht is to look after all the interests of the people living in the Gaeltacht. I am referring in particular to one case of which I am aware in a townland in the Rosses area where an old soldier of the I.R.A. has now had his military service pension cut simply because his women-folk are alleged to have earned a few pounds by distributing knitting to the knitters in the area. If the Leas-Cheann Comhairle says I should not mention that case, I shall not but I would like the Minister to take note of it. If I had the opportunity of mentioning it I would go into further detail.

The Estimate asks for additional money for Scéim na Muc. We have a fairly large Gaeltacht in County Donegal, but the grunt of a pig is as rare in it today as a Fianna Fáil interrupter at a public meeting. I do not know where these additional sows are going, but certainly we have seen none in the Rosses or Gweedore. There are other schemes which might be more beneficial to us and I think that in the Estimate for the Department of Agriculture there is provision for the distribution of sows. This statement in this Estimate is merely padding, as far as I can see.

I do not wish to go into detail on the affairs of Gaeltarra Éireann. Deputy Lindsay has exposed them very well, but I should like to protest against the curtailment by Gaeltarra Éireann of the outdoor weaving in Donegal. I remember twelve months ago or less when one of the directors of Gaeltarra Éireann, a Parliamentary Secretary, a Senator and myself attended a protest meeting against the dispersal of hand looms in the neighbourhood of Glencolumcille, Carrick and Glencar. We were then assured by the director and the Parliamentary Secretary that this was merely the change over from the single loom to the double loom and that in a very short time, in a matter of weeks — I think there was a county council election coming on — there would be recruitment again of not only trained weavers but of trainees as well. Since then Deputies have inundated the manager of Gaeltarra Éireann at Glencar to give employment to trained weavers and we get the same answer every time.

The latest move was to transfer some of the girls from Crolly to Dublin. Both Deputy Breslin and myself protested but were told they were merely going to Dublin as trainees for the transition at Crolly from the making of rag dolls to the manufacture of plastic dolls. But we could see magnificent examples of plastic chairs manufactured in the Donegal factory. On inquiry as to the sales and the demand for these chairs we were told that not a solitary chair had been sold. We asked where they were on exhibition and they told us two of them were in a Grafton Street window in Dublin. In the name of goodness, how can you expect to sell plastic chairs made in the Gaeltacht from an exhibition in Grafton Street?

If the advice tendered by Deputy Breslin had been accepted they would have been put on exhibition in the boarding houses and hotels throughout the Rosses and Gweedore where people might have been tempted to buy them knowing that by doing so they would be giving employment in these areas.

I think the Sales Manager of Gaeltarra Éireann should make a serious effort to advertise these magnificent plastic chairs now being made at Crolly so that the workers there can be maintained in the area instead of emigrating from it.

Ba mhaith liom mar fhocal scoir moladh mór a thabhairt do lucht oibre Ghaeltarra Éireann. Má tá Gaeltarra Éireann ag cailleadh airgid, ní hiad a gcuid oibritheoirí atá ciontach leis, mar oibritheoirí is fearr i bhfad iad ná na daoine sna bailte móra. Déanann siad a gcuid oibre go dian gan gearán.

Tadhg Ó Maonghaile: D'iarr

an tAire orainn £375,980 a sholáthar don Ghaelteacht sa Mheastachán seo. Méadú é sin de £41,000 ar an mbliain atá caite agus fiafraím díom féin an gá Roinn speisialta a bhunú chun an méid sin airgid a chaitheamh. Ceapaim nach gá. Tá fhios ag gach aon duine, agus tá cathú mór orainn mar gheall air, go bhfuil an Ghaeltacht ag laghdú, go bhfuil na daoine ag imeacht as in ainneoin na rudaí a rinneadh chun na daoine a choinneáil sa bhaile. Ní fheadar mé cén fáth atá leis an Roinn speisialta seo chun beagán níos mó ná leath mhilliún púnt a chaitheamh.

I cannot at all see why there should be a special Department of State to look after the expenditure of a little over half a million pounds to preserve the Gaeltacht in this country. I think that could be done more effectively, more efficiently and more expeditiously if the responsibility were divided between the Departments of Local Government and Education. Since Gaeltarra Éireann is an independent body they should be able to look after their own affairs but if the allegations made here by Deputy Lindsay are correct —and he challenges contradiction —I think Gaeltarra Éireann should be brought under the Department of Industry and Commerce.

I should like to say that I do not want to see the Minister for the Gaeltacht deprived of his post but I think we should be realistic in this matter and realise the futility of establishing a special Department for the disposal of half a million pounds. I say that realising fully that the language and the Gaeltacht are the real symbols of nationhood and have been over the years. With regard to the Gaeltacht itself, there was one activity which did not come to light in the years gone by, — the benefit provided over the years by students who go among the people of the Gaeltacht year after year and who have learned to love the Gaeltacht and to appreciate the difficulties of the people who live there. These students go there to learn the language and it would be a pity if they were to have any Anglicising influence on the people of the Gaeltacht.

I spent a few days in the Western Gaeltacht in Kerry last year and I found that a lot of people there had not a word of Irish. They mix around with the people and I cannot see that this can do very much to preserve the language in those areas where it is still spoken. With all due respect to the Gaeltachta of Connemara and Donegal, I think that the purest Gaeltacht there is is in the Dingle peninsula. I think the most attractive dialect of the lot is the one we hear in that area. I do not want to decry the Connemara or the Donegal dialects. We in Munster have that conviction and I believe it is correct. If we are anxious about the Gaeltacht, if we are anxious to preserve it, there is all the greater necessity for us to preserve the Gaeltacht in the islands round the coast.

I have been asked to mention Inis Cléire in this debate today. It is an island where we have Irish spoken fluently and effectively still. It is an island with approximately 230 souls. It is an island seven or eight miles from the coast of Cork. It is an island which has only four boat services in the week.

The people there are committed to paying rates that are really extravagant. It is impossible for them to pay the 5/- return journey to the island. If we are serious in our efforts to preserve the Gaeltacht and the people in the Gaeltacht, we should do something by way of alleviating the hardship in respect of those people. If they have to come to the mainland to do business or for Holy Communion and Confirmation, one can well imagine what an impact that has on the meagre family purse.

These people are restricted in their activities and restricted in regard to the society they would like to meet. They are confined and isolated in that little island. During the past financial year they decided that they would only pay half the rate demanded. I know this has nothing to do with the Gaeltacht. I recommend them for it. They are confined and having regard to the conditions in which they live, they should not be asked to honour these commitments at all.

An Leas-Cheann Comhairle

That is a matter for another Minister.

Mr. Manley

I realise that. Besides, they have not the same amenities as we have here. The roads have no tar macadam. There is no surface on the roads and there are no motor cars on the island. I believe there is a tractor or two on the island. That shows what an effort they must make in order to survive. Fishing for them, too, is a hazardous life. They are not all fishermen. About one-sixth of them are people over 70 years of age and about a quarter of the population are under 16 years of age. Something should be done by way of giving them cheap fares and a cheaper boat service.

I believe that C.I.E. operate the boat services to the Aran Islands. Why do not C.I.E. operate the services to Inis Cléire? I think they should provide the people with a daily service at prices competitive with the prices existing elsewhere. There is a good deal of comment locally that the boat was not left for tender and that the crew are not sufficiently paid. If that is a fact, I think it is a scandal.

We are trying to preserve the Gaeltacht elsewhere while we have a Gaeltacht off the coast of Cork where the real Celts live for generations, where the language is still alive and spoken. Something substantial and progressive will have to be done for these people. If there was never a Gaeltacht in those islands, the fact remains that the people on those islands are citizens of the State and they are entitled to whatever services we can provide for them. These services should be comparable with the services provided on the mainland.

Liam Mac Cuinneagáin

Ba mhaith liom cúpla focal a rá ar an Mheastachán seo. Sílim i rith na bliana go bhfuil dul chun cinn déanta, go mór mhór chomh fada agus a bhaineann le heolas níos mó a thabhairt do na mic léinn. Le cúpla bliain anuas tá méadú an-mhór ar fad tagtha ar uimhir na mac léinn a théann go dtí an Ghaeltacht. Is maith an tvd é sin, mar sílim gurb é an dóigh is fearr le heolas a chur ar an dteanga náisiúnta dul i measc na ndaoine agus dul chun na h-áiteanna ina labhartar an teanga.

Chomh maith leis sin, is é an phríomh-dhóigh atá ann chun an Ghaeilge a leathnú taithí a labhartha a thabhairt don aos óg. Sílim gurb é an dearmad is mó a rinneadh in athbheochan na Gaeilge ar dtús gur cuireadh béim róláidir ar fad ar ghramadach na Gaeilge, ar scríobh na Gaeilge, agus ar gach rud eile ach labhairt na Gaeilge. Is maith liom go ndearna an Roinn Oideachais cúpla bliain ó shin béim níos mó a chur ar labhairt na Gaeilge ná ar na gnéithe eile den teanga. Is maith an rud é sin.

Ba cheart a chur in iúl don aos óg gurb é an príomhrud, agus an rud is fearr is féidir leo a dhéanamh ar dtús, líofacht a fháil i labhairt na Gaeilge. Tá an nós a bhí ann fad ó — ní rófada ó shin é ach oiread, tríocha bliain ó shin — imithe. An uair úd dá ndéanfadh duine botún gramadaí nó rud ar bith mar sin dhéanfaí gáire faoi i gcomhluadar lucht na Gaeilge. Tá an lá sin imithe agus is maith an rud é.

Dá bhrí sin, molaim an tAire agus an méadú atá Roinn na Gaeltachta a thabhairt do scoláirí, mic léinn, agus do dhaoine fásta chomh maith, chun dul go dtí an Ghaeltacht agus eolas a fháil ar labhairt na Gaeilge inti. Chomh maith leis an obair atá Roinn na Gaeltachta a dhéanamh, tá siad ag cuidiú le scoláireachtaí a thabhairt.

Tá obair mhaith á déanamh ag buíonta agus ag coistí ar fud na tíre, Coiste na bPáistí, Comhaltas Uladh, Comhdháil Náisiúnta na Gaeilge agus mar sin de. Faigheann na coistí sin, agus na grúpaí sin, an-chreidiúint sna páipéir as na scéimeanna éagsúla atá ar siúl acu.

Ach ní bhíonn bolscaireacht ar bith uaireannta mar gheall ar an bpáirt atá á imirt ag an Roinn. Deárfainn nach bhfuil aon scoláireacht dá dtugtar nach dtugann Roinn na Gaeltachta nó an Roinn Oideachais páirt an-mhór den chostas. Deir Gael-Linn gur chuir siad, agus go bhfuil siad ag cur, an oiread seo scoláirí agus páistí chun na Gaeltachta. Deir dreamanna nua eile freisin an rud céanna. Sílim féin gur bheag an chreidiúnt a thugtar uaireannta do Roinn na Gaeltachta as ucht an 70 nó an 60 faoin gcéad den chostas a íocann siad.

Sa Gháeltacht féin, má theastaíonn Gaeltacht uainn, agus cainteóirí Gaeilge inti, agus caoi a bheith ag na páistí ar fud na tíre an Ghaeilge a fhoghlaim, tá sé riachtannach cabhair eacnamaíochta a thabhairt do na limistéir sin feasta. Ní h-aon mhaith a bheith ag caint faoi náisiúnachas nó Gaelachas nó labhairt na teangan mura bhfuil slí bheatha chompordach sa Gaeltacht do na daoine atá ina gcónaí ann. Ar a shon sin, sílim féin gur gá breis fuinnimh a chur laistiar de dhéantúis áirithe éagsúla a chur ar bun sa Ghaeltacht. Ní féidir leis na daoine atá ann slí bheatha a bhaint amach dóibh féin ar na feirmeacha beaga atá acu. Mar sin, is gá slite eile a bheith ann chun cabhair a thabhairt dóibh agus slí amháin is ea tionscail fhóirsteanacha a chur ar bun. Tá beagán de sin á dhéanamh ach ní doigh liom féin go bhfuil go leor den obair sin ar siúl faoi láthair.

Tá ceantair agus contaetha ar fud na tire ina bhfuil dul ar aghaidh mór déanta ó thaobh monarchana agus tionscail a chur ar siúl. Is dócha go bhfuil buntáistí áirithe acu siúd. Bíodh sin mar atá, ba chóir go mbeadh roinnt de chontaetha an Iarthair in ann dul chun cinn chomh maith agus atá áiteanna eile. Tá na hoibritheoirí ann i measc muintir na Gaeltachta, tá eolas céirde lámh acu agus tá intleacht thar an gcoiteann ag muintir na Gaeltachta.

Sílim féin nach bhfuil aon difir idir contaetha an Iarthair agus na contaetha ina bhfuil dul chun cinn tionsclach déanta ach amháin b'fhéidir an fad atá siad ó chalafort Bhaile Átha Cliath, calafort Chorcaí nó calafort Bhéal Feirste nó na calafoirt eile. Ní deacair an rud é an mí-bhuntáiste sin a cheartú ar dhoigh nó ar dhóigh eile. Tá obair fhónta á déanamh ag an Roinn seo agus ag na Ranna Stáit eile. Tá feabhas tagtha sa méid airgid a chuirtear ar fáil don Ghaeltacht agus do na tithe ann. Tá deontais mhaithe á bhfáil ag na daoine ann. Tá deontais speisialta fá choinne uisce reatha a chur sna tithe.

Ní chreidim na daoine a deir go bhfuil an iomarca á dhéanamh agus go bhfuil an iomarca á dhéanamh ag an Roinn seo nó ag Ranna éagsúla an Rialtais don Ghaeltacht. Ní ceart go gcreidfí na daoine a deir an méid sin. Tá feabhas mór tagtha ar ghnéithe éagsúla de shaol na ndaoine sa Ghaeltacht. Rud nach maith linn is ea go n-imíonn cuid de mhuintir na Gaeltachta thar lear ó am go ham i rith na bliana. D'fhéadfaí cuid díobh a choimeád sa bhaile ag obair ar fhoraiseacht sa Ghaeltacht nó cúnamh nó leathchúnamh a thabhairt dóibh i dtionscal na hiascaireachta. Sin dhá shlí inar féidir obair mhór a dhéanamh.

Tá súil agam go dtabharfar aire speisialta do na contaetha ina bhfuil Gaeltachta i dtreo go mbeidh ar a gcumas a gcion a dhéanamh sa dul chun cinn tionsclach atá ar siúl ar fud na tíre le roinnt blianta anuas.

Mr. Dillon

I am glad the Department of the Gaeltacht has discovered the service that can be done that part of the country for which it is responsible by An Foras Talúntais and its peat land station at Glenamoy. I believe it has a very substantial contribution to make to important developments in the Gaeltacht and it is good news that the Minister for the Gaeltacht has woken up to that fact.

The last speaker said there is not much use in urging the people of the Gaeltacht to keep the language alive and to stay in the Gaeltacht if they cannot be comfortable there. I would suggest to the Minister that one of the greatest discomforts the people of Connemara have to contend with is when they have a large rock sitting in the middle of their garden around which year after year they have to plant their potatoes or cabbage or whatever else they may require for their house.

I suggest to the Minister that, having discovered what An Foras Talúntais can do to help the people of the Gaeltacht, he might with advantage revise his attitude to the Department of the Gaeltacht and invite the land rehabilitation project, through their Connemara Scheme, to help in expediting the work of removing the rocks or helping the people to remove the rocks from their small holdings in Connemara, West Donegal and other counties where they constitute a perennial problem to the people trying to earn their living on the small holdings which they have.

I notice that Scéim na Muc which was introduced here with such a flourish by Deputy Moran when he was Minister for the Gaeltacht does not seem to be very widely availed of. Inasmuch as it duplicates services already available to the Pigs and Bacon Commission, I do not suppose we need be much surprised at that. I am not going to speak at length on this Estimate.

I believe the Gaeltacht Department has very valuable work to do. That has been touched upon at some length by Deputy Lindsay. But I want to sound a note of warning. I was Chairman of the Public Accounts Committee for several years and it was my disagreeable duty, as Chairman of that Committee, to review the accounts of the Gaeltacht industries on more than one occasion. So grave was the confusion then existing that I directed a special meeting of the Committee on Public Accounts to be held in order to try to disentangle the confusion. In the course of my special inquiries at that time it emerged at one stage that a storekeeper, who was dealing with the stocks then, found that he had not enough stocks in the sheets to meet what ought to be there, so he simply took the stock sheets out and altered them. Only after a physical check had been made of the stock was this extraordinary procedure detected.

I then arranged with the Comptroller and Auditor General that a special audit would be done and, on the conclusion of that audit, some kind of accounts were presented. Anyone who likes to look at the printed record will find that, as Chairman of the Public Accounts Committee, I regarded the situation as extremely unsatisfactory but, inasmuch as the whole business was now going to be transferred to an independent board, if I was assured that the independent board could be given an opportunity of starting off with a clean sheet and with true and accurate stocks, I was prepared to draw a line under the whole business and wish it well under its new administration. I got the most categorical assurances that, whatever mistakes had been made up to that, every precaution would be taken to see that when Gaeltarra Éireann, the new company, was set up their stocks would be precisely what they truly were, all other relevant assets and liabilities would be precisely and accurately determined, and the new body would get a fresh start on a guaranteed solid basis. All that can be verified by reference back to the printed reports of the Committee on Public Accounts.

Now, Gaeltarra Éireann has been proceeding for two years. The last report we have is for 1959/60 though, so far as I know, the year ends on 31st March. This is the middle of July. I do not think it would be extravagant to expect a body like this to be in a position to present its accounts to Dáil Éireann within three months of the close of this financial year. We have not got the accounts for the year ending 31st March last. The last accounts we have are the accounts for the period ending 31st March, 1960. On page 5 there is a statement which says there is a loss of £104,835 trading losses for the year. It was discovered that through a mistake too high a price to the tune of £14,114 was put on the stock on hands at 31st March, 1959. That sum is put in the accounts for the year 1959-60 as "Cailteanas nach de chionn trádála" sa Chuntas Sochair agus Dochair. When one comes to look at the "Cuntas Sochair agus Dochair" there is no item marked "Cailteanas nach de chionn trádála". There is an item "Cailteanas nach mbaineann le trádáil na bliana" but the sum referred to in the note in the report is "Cailteanas nach de chionn trádála"— £14,114. The sum mentioned in the "Chuntas Sochair agus Dochair" is "Cailteanas nach mbaineann le trádáil na bliana"—£17,264.

I may not be a Celtic scholar, nor yet a chartered accountant, but I have a bowing acquaintance with the Irish language and I have some familiarity with simple accounts. If you state in your report that you propose to show in the profit and loss account a sum of £14,114 representing a mistaken valuation on the stock in the previous year, which you wish to show as an additional loss in this year, it does not seem to me to be a rational procedure to insert an item in the profit and loss account of losses of £17,264 which did not arise from trading in the year.

There may be an explanation of that but, on the face of the account, it is unsatisfactory and I suggest to the Minister — I assume he saw the draft accounts before they were finally printed for presentation to the Oireachtas — that an entry of that kind in accounts presented to him would entitle him to say that such accounts lack clarity at least and there ought to be an explanatory note in the profit and loss account in similar terms to that in the report, and also an explanatory note if the amount included in the profit and loss account does not correspond with the amount referred to in the appropriate paragraph of the annual report.

This is evidence to me of loose procedure and I do not think any rational firm could approach its shareholders at the end of the year's trading and simply say: "We made a mistake of £14,000 in the valuation of our stocks last year and we are going to bring that into this account as a loss accountable otherwise than by trading and so we have put £17,264 in as a loss that did not arise out of trading last year." I think such a presentation of account would cause uproar at any reasonable general meeting of shareholders and I am astonished that the Comptroller and Auditor General's staff would permit accounts to be presented to the Minister with an obvious discrepancy of that kind. I am equally astonished that the Minister, acting on behalf of the Oireachtas, did not say to the accountant that these accounts are at least ambiguous and they ought to be clear.

I should like to see Gaeltarra Éireann succeeding and I want to say quite clearly that if there is anybody in this country who expects Gaeltarra Éireann to earn a profit on its normal trading he is daft. If Gaeltarra Éireann is charged to make a profit one of the first things you have to do is to dismiss half the employees it has and close down half the centres. I want Gaeltarra Éireann to keep these centres open, to give the people who are living around these centres the work that it is the intention of this Oireachtas they should have, and I am quite prepared to justify to Dáil Éireann some loss on the operations of this business if I am satisfied that we are getting fair value for whatever grants are made. But, there should be at some stage — and Gaeltarra Éireann has now had two years to grapple with it — some effort to introduce elementary efficiency into the operations which it conducts.

It is perfectly true that Gaeltarra Éireann labours under the initial disadvantage that owing to the multiplicity of its centres for manufacture it has its raw materials scattered all over the country. Let nobody underestimate the problem of keeping strict account of raw materials so distributed. It can be done; it should be done but it is not an easy thing to do and I am not prepared to express excessive surprise if sometimes there might be an oversight as to the detailed specification of stocks in remote centres. But, surely the time has come when the central depot of Gaeltarra Éireann should have a better means of maintaining its stocks than scattering their finished products over a miscellany of depots all over the city of Dublin and elsewhere. Is there any central place where Gaeltarra Éireann can gather its stocks when they are received from the various centres where they are manufactured, store them properly and display them effectively for sale and furnish orders with dispatch from readily accessible stocks? I believe one of the great mistakes that is crippling Gaeltarra Éireann at the present time is the fact that it has not a central sales depot where all its stocks could be maintained under close supervision. Until that is done it is impossible to imagine that there would be any reasonable administration.

I want to sound this note of warning. We are dealing with public money. I have so strong a natural prejudice in favour of Gaeltarra Éireann and the kind of work that they are doing that one is inclined to lean backwards and say mistakes will occur and difficulties will arise but there is a limit. The Oireachtas has gone out of its way to give this body the status of a trading company and has gone on to say "and if you make reasonable annual losses, we are prepared to accept that without complaint owing to the nature of the work and the kind of employment that you give". That should not give the board of this company the feeling that loose administration is good enough or that we are not to comment harshly on such a note as appears in the accounts relative to the loss to which I have referred, on the ambiguity that appears in the accounts, which is well calculated to create confusion, and on the fact that these features appear after the Committee on Public Accounts has commented most stringently on similar mistakes that had been made while the industries were directly administered by the Department itself.

The Minister will make a very great mistake if he does not realise that the report we have today for 1959/60 must cause considerable heart searchings by all those who read it with interest. He must share the responsibility for the shortcomings that are here revealed and I am bound to tell him that, having all the sympathy that it is possible to have with the work with which Gaeltarra Éireann is charged, I feel these accounts give rise to grave anxiety that there is still serious mismanagement. I can only hope that when the accounts for 1960/61 come to hand there will be some reassurances in them that the looseness of administration that has characterised them heretofore has disappeared.

I have indicated to the Minister one suggestion which might help to bring more order into their affairs and that is that they should centralise their sales and stock depot in Dublin and not have their merchandise scattered all over the city, much less in some of the manufacturing depots down the country. Whatever steps they are requested to take they should be resolutely taken. Otherwise, the continual disposal of job lots, soiled merchandise, will constitute a recurring cause of comment which will do Gaeltarra Éireann serious harm and give rise to the gravest misgivings in the minds of all of us who are responsible for the public money that is invested annually to meet the losses that arise from the continued maintenance of these industries.

Risteárd Ua Maolchatha

Tá súil agam ná tógfaidh an tAire orm é má deirim gurab é an rud atá uaim ná fios a bheith agam cá bhfuil an Ghaeltacht. Cuireadh Roinn na Gaeltachta ar bun chun caomhnadh a dhéanamh ar dhaoine fé leith gurab í an Ghaeilge a dteanga dhúchais agus an teanga is mó atá á h-úsáid acu i ngnáth-obair an lae. Tá mé dall, agus tá na Teachtaí eile sa Dáil dall, ar cad iad na limistéirí ina bhfuil an teanga á labhairt ag na daoine i ngnáth-obair an lae agus cá bhfuil na ceantracha gur ceart agus gur cóir an t-airgead a vótáladh anso a chaitheamh chun feabhas a chur ar a saol. Tá súil agam ná tógfaidh an tAire orm é nuair adeirim go bhfuil an t-eolas sin ag teastáil uainn, gur gá é bheith againn agus nach bhfuil sé againn.

I mí Bealtaine chuireas ceist ar an Aire i dtaobh cad tá déanta ag an Roinn ó cuireadh ar bun í chun an t-eolas sin a fháil. Dúirt an tAire go cneasta liom gur thángadar ar réiteach i dtaobh na limistéirí ar Gaeilgeoirí mórchuid de na daoine iontu tar éis an Roinn a bhunú. Ach tá a fhios aige féin go bhfuil cúntas le fáil ó Roinn na Staidrimh adeir nach bhfuil eolas cruinn acu, nach bhfuil eolas cruinn ag an Rialtas. Má chreideann an Rialtas go bhfuil an t-eolas cruinn sin acu, tá mearbhall orthu mar níl an t-eolas cruinn ann.

Dúirt an tAire ar an Meastachán rudaí den tsaghas seo i dtaobh beatha na ndaoine sa Ghaeltacht, pé áit ina bhfuil sí, gurab íontach an feabhas atá tagtha ar shaol mhuintir na Gaeltachta fé rialú dúchasach.

Táimid ag caitheamh airgid agus ba chóir fios a bheith againn cá bhfuil an t-airgead sin dhá chaitheamh chun go mbeidh tuiscint chruinn againn go bhfuil maitheas ag teacht as an gcaitheamh airgid sin. Is mian leis an Dáil an t-airgead sin a chaitheamh mar mhaithe leis an dteanga agus chun an Ghaeltacht a neartú sna limistéirí úd ina bhfuil an teanga ag na daoine ó dhúchas. Le déanaí bhíomar ag ceiliúradh teacht Naomh Phádraig go hÉirinn. Nuair a tháinig sé is beag scríobh a bhí ag na daoine ach nuair a thángadar isteach ar an scríobhnóireacht is i nGaeilge a scríobhadh chuile rud. Ón ndúchas sin a d'fhás an teanga. I nDún na nGall, i Muigheo, i nGaillimh, i gCiarraí agus i bPort Láirge tá suim acu sa Ghaeilge ó thosach.

Dúirt an Teachta Mac Loingsigh gur ceart go mbeadh gnáth-bhia an cheantair le fáil ag cuairteoirí a thagann go dtí limistéirí na Gaeltachta. Aontaím leis an moladh sin mar sé is mó is cás linn maidir leis an Ghaeltacht agus leis an airgead atá dhá chaitheamh inti ná na daoine a bhfuil an Ghaeilge acu ó dhúchas. Cuireadh an Roinn seo ar bun ceithre nó cúig bhliain ó shoin chun an meon sin a chothú. Tá súil agam nach dtógfaidh an tAire orm é nuair a fhiafraím de céard é an limistéar ina bhfuil an teanga dhá labhairt anois ó dhúchas. Nuair a chuir mé an cheist sin air i mí na Bealtaine ní raibh a fhios aige. Níl a fhios ag an Rialtas; níl a fhios ag an Dáil agus níl a fhios ag éinne. Do cuireadh fiosrachán ar bun i 1956 faoi na daoine atá ag labhairt Gaeilge ó dhúchas. De thairbhe an fhiosracháin sin agus nuair a bhí aithbhreithniú déanta, bhí na figiúirí bun ós cionn leis na figiúirí a fuaireamar ón Rialtas roimhe sin. Bhí difríocht de 50 faoin gcéad i dtaobh an limistéir agus 30 faoin gcéad i dtaobh na ndaoine a bhfuil eolas ar an dteanga acu.

Níl aon eolas san ráiteas a thug an tAire don Dáil inniu faoi na limistéirí go dtugtar an Ghaeltacht orthu. Níor thug sé aon eolas dúinn ach oiread faoi na h-áiteanna a bhfuil súil aige an t-airgead seo a chaitheamh iontu. Dúirt sé agus measaim go bhfuil sé dáiríre:

Is beag teach scoile sa bhFíor-Ghaeltacht go mb'éigean é a dhúnadh ceal dóthain tinrimh — ach b'éigin cuid acu a fhairsingiú de bharr méadú líon na ngasúr.

Dúirt sé gur beag limistéar inar gá scoil a dhúnadh ceal tinrimh. Céard iad na limistéirí sin; céard iad na scoileanna agus cé mhéid acu atá ann? B'fhéidir gur fearr dom an cheist sin a chur ar an Aire Oideachais. Dúirt an tAire freisin:

Scaipeann na cuairteoirí seo a lán airgid ar fud na Gaeltachta. Ní bheidh mé sásta go mbeidh chuile theaghlach sa nGaeltacht ag coinneál foghlaimeoirí, Samhradh i ndiaidh Samhraidh, agus cuid mhaith acu á gcoinneál i rith na bliana chomh maith.

Tá a fhios agam go raibh an tAire dáiríre nuair a dúirt sé é sin ach cuirfidh mé an cheist air arís. Cá bhfuil na limistéirí agus cá bhfuil na tithe ar a bhfuil sé ag caint? Má tá an t-am agus an t-eolas aige, b'fhéidir go dtabharfaidh sé freagra ar na ceisteanna sin dom. Is beag iad na ceantair ina bhfuil an teanga dhá labhairt go coitinn sna laethe seo. Séard tá mé ag iarraidh a fháil amach ná an bhfuilimid ag baint tairbhe as an airgead seo atáimid ag soláthar don Roinn seo. An bhfuíl an t-airgead seo ag déanamh an maitheas is mó is féidir leis do na daoine agus do na limistéirí a thuilleann é?

Níl ach cúpla focal eile le rá agam ar an Meastachán seo. Nuair a chuir mé na ceisteanna úd ar an Aire i mí na Bealtaine dúirt sé go ndéanfadh sé an t-eolas a sheoladh chugam. Chuir sé léarscáil chugam ach níl maitheas dá laghad san léarscáil sin. Níl ann ach spota dúigh ar phíosa páipéir. Níl sé beo. Tá a fhios agam go bhfuil scoileanna leagtha amach uirthi, oifigí phoist agus áiteanna eile. Ach tá an Roinn ar bun anois le cúig bhliain anuas agus táim cinnte nach bhfuil athrú ab fhiú trácht air tagtha ar an gceist. Tá foireann de chainteoirí dúchais ag obair san Roinn agus dúirt an tAire liom ar an 13ú de mhí na Bealtaine seo caite go bhfuil obair mhór dhá déanamh acu. Ach cén toradh atá ar a saothar? An aon íonadh é go bhfuilimid ag lorg an eolais seo ón Aire agus an méid airgid atá se ag iarraidh orainn a sholáthar don obair seo.

Progress reported; Committee to sit again.