asked the Minister for Posts and Telegraphs the results of his meeting with the subpostmasters concerning the question of independent arbitration; and if he will make a statement on the matter.
46.
Ceisteanna—Questions. Oral Answers. - Arbitration Facilities for Subpostmasters.
45.
asked the Minister for Posts and Telegraphs if in view of the fact that there is a likelihood of the closing of the sub-post offices throughout the country he will give further and immediate consideration to the request of the Subpostmasters' Union for access to machinery for conciliation and arbitration, so that their grievances may be dealt with by independent conciliation and arbitration.
With your permission, a Cheann Comhairle, I propose to take Questions Nos. 45 and 46 together.
I met representatives of the Subpostmasters' Union on 30th March. The union representatives expressed dissatisfaction with the operation of the Subpostmasters' Consultative Council and pressed for a change in the constitution of the council and for the provision of arbitration machinery. I undertook to consider the points put forward by the deputation. I have done so and have recently informed the union that I am unable to agree to their requests.
Subpostmasters are in a special position in that while they undertake to arrange for provision of post office services at their offices and are responsible for these services they are not required to attend personally to the day-to-day business of the post office. Many of them have other occupations and the post office business is conducted mainly by assistants or members of their families.
The majority conduct other business in association with the post office work. There is no retiring age, and under certain conditions a sub-post office may be transferred to a near relative on the retirement or death of the subpostmaster. In all these respects subpostmasters are in an entirely different position from ordinary employees and a scheme of arbitration would not be appropriate in their circumstances.
The Subpostmasters' Consultative Council was instituted in agreement with the union in 1956 for the purpose of discussing matters relating to the pay and conditions of subpostmasters. The Council has functioned satisfactorily in the meantime. All claims which it has dealt with have received full and fair consideration on their merits and subpostmasters have been at least as successful as other groups in securing pay increases. The Council as at present constituted provides suitable and adequate negotiating machinery for dealing with the claims of subpostmasters.
Prior to the interview on 30th March a number of claims submitted by the union had been under discussion at the Consultative Council and in my recent letter to the union I suggested that it might best make progress in the consideration of outstanding claims by resuming discussion of them at the Council as soon as possible and that an early meeting of the Council could be arranged if the union so desired. I have not yet received a reply from the union to this suggestion.
Is the Minister aware that the representatives of the subpostmasters consider that the Consultative Council has not worked satisfactorily from their point of view, that while initially there was an effort to work out a satisfactory arrangement, in practice, it has not worked satisfactorily and that the subpostmasters contest the Minister's assertion that it has worked satisfactorily and in view of this, is the Minister prepared to interview the union representatives again and to review the whole matter?
I have already answered the Deputy's supplementary. I know the subpostmasters themselves are not satisfied with the working of the Consultative Council. However, I do not think they have given a fair length of time to the working of the council to be able to form any definite opinion in relation to it. It has been only a few years in operation.
That is true, but they assert that the decisions are entirely one-sided—that the Departmental representative who acts as chairman sides consistently with the four Departmental representatives who meet the representatives of the subpostmasters. In view of that fact, having regard to the one-sidedness of the arrangement, is the Minister now prepared to meet the representatives of the subpostmaster?
I do not know exactly what I could discuss with them. They asked to discuss one specific matter with me and I met them and listened to their submission in relation to that matter. Considerations of pay or conditions of employment are discussed in the Consultative Council. When it was established in 1956, the Consultative Council made provision for that.
In view of the fact that the Subpostmasters' Union considers the Consultative Council to be a one-sided one, could the Minister say what he can lose by the establishment of arbitration machinery for the union? In my Question, I referred to the likelihood of a closedown in sub-post offices. I do not mention this as a threat but has the Minister examined the serious repercussions such action would have?
I have not considered that aspect so far.
Would he say whether he has been notified that they are considering such action?
I have not been notified.
Having regard to the emphasis which is being put these days on the necessity for settling disputes in an amicable way, and to the emphasis which has been put on the desirability of having good management-labour relations, would the Minister at this stage, before the situation gets any more serious, take steps to meet these people, with a view to devising some machinery in which they can have some confidence? They have none in the Consultative Council after six years' experience of it. If a grievance exists, surely the wise thing is to take steps to remedy it?
I have already conveyed my opinion in my letter to the subpostmasters and I do not think there is anything I can usefully add to what I said in the letter and in the answer I have given today.
Would the Minister say whether or not he has received a communication similar to the one which I received this week, signed by the executive committee of the Subpostmasters' Union?
I have not seen it yet anyway.
Every Deputy got it.