Dáil Éireann debate -
Wednesday, 20 Jun 1962

Vol. 196 No. 4

Ceisteanna—Questions. Oral Answers. - Industrial and Life Assurance Amalgamation Company.

39.

Mr. Ryan

asked the Minister for Industry and Commerce if he will state with reference to the Agreement made on the 14th December 1947 whereby the Industrial and Life Assurance Amalgamation Company, Limited purported to transfer their business, premium income and entire assets to the Irish Assurance Company, Limited, whether a valuation was made of the merger of the two businesses in the Irish Assurance Company, Limited; if so, if he will give details of the valuation, including the name of the valuer and actuary; whether the policyholders of the Industrial and Life Assurance Amalgamation Company, Limited were thereby deprived of their rights to share in the profits of that Company or of the Irish Assurance Company, Limited; whether the consent of the policyholders in the Industrial and Life Assurance Amalgamation Company, Limited was obtained, and, if so, in what manner; and whether any provision was made to protect the profit-sharing rights of the policyholders in the Industrial and Life Assurance Amalgamation Company, Limited.

40.

Mr. Ryan

asked the Minister for Industry and Commerce the number of policyholders in the Industrial and Life Assurance Amalgamation Company, Limited on 1st January 1947 who by reason of being entitled to free paid-up policies were entitled as creditors to payment on the winding-up of that Company; and what provision was made on the merger of that Company with the Irish Assurance Company, Limited to deal with the claims of those policyholders and to protect their rights as creditors in the winding-up.

41.

Mr. Ryan

asked the Minister for Industry and Commerce whether the provisions of section 14 of the Assurance Act, 1909, requiring the filing of particulars were complied with in connection with the transfer dated 14th December, 1947, whereby the Industrial and Life Assurance Amalgamation Company purported to transfer their business, premium income and entire assets to the Irish Assurance Company, Limited; if so, when; and if the provisions were not complied with in time, what action was taken against the defaulting parties.

Dr. Hillery

I propose, with the permission of the Ceann Comhairle, to take Questions Nos. 39, 40 and 41 together.

The transfer of the business of the Industrial and Life Assurance Company Limited to the Irish Assurance Company Limited was provided for in the Insurance (Amendment) Act, 1938. I have no reason to believe that the settlement provided for in the Agreement of 14th December, 1947, has not been properly executed. I am satisfied that a re-examination at this stage of the matters referred to in the questions would not be warranted and for that reason I am not in a position to supply the Deputy with the detailed information requested.

The documents in connection with the amalgamation are filed in the Companies Registration Office and may be inspected on payment of the prescribed fee.

Mr. Ryan

May I express my admiration of the manner in which Ministers are able to avoid embarrassing supplementaries by grouping three vitally different questions together? Question No. 41 was avoided. Is the Minister aware that under Section 14 of the Assurance Act, 1909, it was obligatory in 1947 to file particulars of the alleged amalgamation of the Industrial and Life Assurance Company and the Irish Assurance Company but that in 1954, that is seven years later, those particulars had not yet been filed with the Registrar of Companies at the Castle? I asked the Minister to say whether any action was taken against defaulting parties. Would the Minister say what action, if any, was taken?

Dr. Hillery

The background to these questions is such that I do not think it would be prudent for me to enter into an argument with the Deputy. There will be possible developments in relation to this question. I did not intend to avoid answering the question. I have not got the information.

Mr. Ryan

I can appreciate the Minister's desire for prudence but that does not warrant refusing an answer to a simple question.

Dr. Hillery

I have not refused to answer a simple straightforward question.

Mr. Ryan

I am not aware of the background to which the Minister refers but I am aware of the confusion, fraud and the type of answer given when this House was trying to consider the 1938 Act. Is the Minister aware that the agreement of 1938 laid down that the rights of policyholders to a share in the profits would be and should be protected in the event of the amalgamation of the two companies but that since then, under the amalgamation of 1947, the policyholders in the old company have been deliberately deprived of the rights to shares in the policies which were guaranteed by an Act of this House and contained in the Memorandum and the Articles of Association of a former company?

An Ceann Comhairle

That is not asking a question. That is a statement. The Deputy is making a positive statement.

Dr. Hillery

It seems to be a matter of opinion. Because of the background and possible developments based on divided opinion, it would not be prudent to carry on a discussion at this stage.

Mr. Ryan

It is a well established rule of law that time can never run against fraud. If fraud is committed by the State and——

An Ceann Comhairle

The Deputy will resume his seat.

Mr. Ryan

I will raise the matter on the Adjournment, if we have a quorum.

42.

Mr. Ryan

asked the Minister for Industry and Commerce if he will state in respect of each of the last ten years the sums which the Irish Life Assurance Company, Limited (formerly the Irish Assurance Company, Limited) have distributed by way of free bonus to their policyholders who have no profit-sharing rights; and whether former policyholders in the Industrial and Life Assurance Amalgamation Company, Limited, have shares in such distribution.

Dr. Hillery

The information requested by the Deputy may be ascertained from the Company's statutory returns which are available in the Companies Registration Office and may be inspected on payment of the prescribed fee. Copies of these returns were also presented to each House of the Oireachtas.

Mr. Ryan

Would the Minister state on what date the particulars were filed in the Companies Office?

Dr. Hillery

The company furnished an actuary's report in 1952, 1954, 1955, 1957 and 1959. These are available in the Companies Office and in the Dáil Library.

Mr. Ryan

Would the Minister say who the actuary was?

An Ceann Comhairle

Surely that does not arise out of the question?

Mr. Ryan

It does. It relates to the question the Minister did not answer.