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Dáil Éireann debate -
Thursday, 14 Mar 1963

Vol. 200 No. 9

Committee on Finance - Vote 31—Primary Education.

I move:

That a supplementary sum not exceeding £60,000 be granted to defray the charge which will come in course of payment during the year ending on the 31st day of March, 1963, for Primary Education, including National School Teachers' Superannuation, etc.

This Supplementary Estimate is necessary to meet the cost of additional grants to the training colleges and increases in the rates of annual bonus payable to national school teachers in respect of special qualifications.

A major scheme for the provision of new premises is at present in hand in the case of St. Patrick's Training College, Drumcondra. The cost will, in the first instance, be met by way of a bank loan and the State will refund this total cost, as to principal and interest, over a period of years. The additional sum required in this supplementary estimate includes £21,000 approximately as a first payment in respect of such refund. The balance represents increased provision to enable the training colleges to meet additional current expenditure, including the cost of increased salaries to the teaching staff as from 1 November, 1961.

Following the acceptance by the Government of the finding of the Chairman of the Arbitration Board, which sat on 11th and 12th October, 1962, the rates of annual bonus payable to national school teachers in respect of special qualifications were increased, with effect from 1 November, 1961. The annual additional cost of the revised rates of bonus is estimated at £20,000. In the financial year 1962-3 the additional cost is £27,000, since payment for the five months from 1 November, 1961, to 31 March, 1962, is also included in the payments in that year.

The gross total additional provision now required is, therefore, £69,000 but net savings of £9,000 approximately are anticipated in the other subheads of the vote, thus placing the net additional provision required at £60,000.

I take it that all this arises out of increases in salaries and bonuses?

Except the training college building which I mentioned.

That is a point I wish to discuss. There is an increase in the Estimate for the building of training colleges.

It is the loan on which interest is being repaid. That is the first part of it.

For the building of St. Patrick's Training College?

We are spending money on the building of St. Patrick's College and we have closed down in Donegal one of the finest buildings in this country, Coláiste Bríde. Not alone have we closed it down but it is costing us £1,000 a year to keep it closed down. That is the reply I got to a question which I addressed to the Parliamentary Secretary to the Minister for Finance on the matter.

Surely the Minister could find some use for Coláiste Bríde. He talks about decentralisation and here we are to spend money now on the building of St. Patrick's College. We are going to close down these preparatory colleges throughout the country which could be used for the education of teachers who are going to teach in the Gaeltacht because these colleges are sited in the Gaeltacht. It is false economy. Coláiste Bríde has now been closed for three years at a cost of £3,000 to the taxpayers and although we are spending a £1,000 a year on it, the building is deteriorating for want of occupation and fires. The Minister should consult with the Parliamentary Secretary to the Minister for Finance and see if his Department could use this building.

Let me give an example. Donegal vocational committee built a magnificent technical school at Gortahork in the Fíor-Ghaeltacht. I forget what it cost but I think it was well over £10,000. When we were planning to build that school, the Minister knew he was going to close down Coláiste Bríde only two and a half miles away and that it would cost the taxpayers £1,000 a year to keep it there. What a tragedy that the Department had not a little more foresight and had not said: "Before you build in Gortahork, let us look at the preparatory school and if we think the preparatory school is not the right type of school for training teachers, we shall make it available to the vocational education committee." That would have been a very fine gesture.

Again, although this may be more appropriate to the next heading, we are paying considerable sums to CIE for these hotel training courses. I am not criticising them—they are excellent —but we have the CIE hotel in Bundoran occupied for six or eight months of the year and it is costing us or CIE—Seán citizen pays in any case —a considerable sum. We had Coláiste Bríde fully furnished and capable of housing 100 students. Why did we not keep it open for the training of hotel staffs instead of taking over the hotel in Bundoran?

And the Commodore in Cobh.

The reason I suggested this particular one is that it is in the Fíor-Ghaeltacht. It belongs to the Department and is furnished. Yet we decided to close it and build a new technical school two and a half miles away. We sold the entire contents and we let the farm in conacre and then moved to Bundoran at fabulous cost to the taxpayers and took over the CIE hotel for some six months of the year. That is very shortsighted policy.

We are now going to spend money on building a new St. Patrick's College and we are back again to centralisation instead of using the preparatory schools we have in the Fíor-Ghaeltacht. There is another in West Cork, Ballyvourney. It is a tragedy that they are not used to train teachers for the Fíor-Ghaeltacht schools in the environment in which they are going to teach later, an environment where they can acquire, if they need it, the dialect of the Gaeltacht in which they will teach. It is a waste of taxpayers' money. That is one of the troubles of the Government— there is no liaison between the Departments.

I do not blame the Minister for Education in particular but this is something he should look into. We have not enough money for education but we want to put what we have to much better use than rebuilding a training college when we have these magnificent buildings in the country.

Just to clear one point —the preparatory colleges are not lying idle. Four of them are in use as—

Coláiste Bríde is lying idle.

They are being used as secondary schools. I think it would be more than wasteful to have five teachers' training colleges in the Gaeltacht. It would not be realistic to do what Deputy O'Donnell suggests in regard to training the teachers in the Gaeltacht for the Gaeltacht because you do not know where the teacher will be appointed to teach. It may sound very attractive to train Gaeltacht teachers in the Gaeltacht but you cannot pick them before they are trained to go to particular Gaeltacht schools. I do not think that is feasible. I do not know why the Deputy objects to the vocational school at Gortahork—

I do not object to it. It is only a question of economy.

But the decision to change the system of preparatory schools was taken after the decision to build this vocational school at Gortahork and the planning of the vocational education committee in Donegal was arranged to meet the needs of the people. The reason Coláist Bríde is not put to educational use now is that the region is adequately served by secondary schools at the moment, but I am not without hope that we shall find use for it. I think it is worth holding on to the building rather than selling it at present. It may be possible to sell it. I think it was advertised but there were no offers near the value of the college. Any of the other proposals suggested would be less attractive even though they could be made to sound attractive. I take it that the Deputy does not object to the training college being improved?

No, but we do object to the Minister trying to turn the anvil on Deputy O'Donnell by saying he is shocked at Deputy O'Donnell objecting to the erection of a vocational school at Gortahork when, in fact, what the Deputy said was that he was sorry the Minister did not arrange for an even better vocational school at Gortahork and at the same time save the Donegal vocational education authority a very large sum and show a little foresight on behalf of the taxpayers and ratepayers. Magnificent as is the new vocational school at Gortahork, I think quite a number of people would agree with me that the premises at Coláist Bríde would be even more commodious than the excellent school provided at Gortahork.

I think it would be much too commodious.

I must express regret that the Minister considers premises too commodious for the people of Donegal and may I say my comment on the Minister's observation is about as fair as the Minister's comment on Deputy O'Donnell's observation?

Vote put and agreed to.
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