andMr. McQuillan asked the Taoiseach whether any discussion concerning Ireland's future role in regard to the military alignments in Europe took place between President Kennedy and himself; and what was the nature of such discussions.
2.
Ceisteanna—Questions. Oral Answers. - Discussions with President Kennedy.
1.
andMr. McQuillan asked the Taoiseach what was the nature of any political discussions held with the President of the USA; and if he will make a statement in regard to them.
3.
andMr. McQuillan asked the Taoiseach whether any discussion concerning the expansion and liberalisation of trade between Ireland and the USA took place during the recent visit of President Kennedy to this country.
With your permission, Sir, I propose to take Questions Nos. 1 to 3 together.
My discussions with the President of the United States of America were of a general nature and consisted of an exchange of views on current world affairs, including our own. As it is not customary to give details of such discussions, which are of a confidential nature, I do not feel at liberty to elaborate further on them.
May we ask the Taoiseach whether he had any discussion, without disclosing any details of it, on the issue of Partition with the President of the United States?
I have mentioned that the discussions related to all current affairs, including our own.
Would it, in any case, be correct to assume that the discussions were of no great substance?
If the Deputy means that specific propositions were not considered, that is correct, but the discussions were of considerable importance, and of interest and value to me.
In view of the short time the Taoiseach and the President were together, I think it is reasonable to assume the discussions were of no great substance.
May we take it the discussion did encompass military, political and trade matters? Further, may we have from the Taoiseach an undertaking that no fundamental change in policy in regard to any of these matters and in particular, in relation to military matters, will take place as a result of discussions with the American President?
Certainly there is no change of policy arising out of these discussions.
May we take it that Government policy as stated by the Minister for External Affairs in the United Nations, that Ireland will not be tied to any power bloc or cold war bloc, still stands? Is that the position?
The Deputy has no reason to assume any changes of policy.
From what the Taoiseach has said, can we take it that there was no, let us call it, secret agreement or arrangement arrived at?
This gets funnier every minute.
Is it not the usual procedure that the House be informed of the nature of discussions between the Taoiseach and the head of a foreign Government, that some details of the discussions should be given, instead of secrecy? Surely that is the position obtaining in Parliaments all over the world?
Quite the contrary. It is obvious that discussions between members of the Irish Government and other Government on matters of general interest must be regarded as confidential; otherwise, they will not take place. It would be quite impossible to expect heads of other States or members of other Governments to discuss these matters freely with us, if everything they said were to be reported to the Dáil.
The Taoiseach must remember that in discussions with the head of the British Government and with the Italian Government, there was a communiqué issued. Nobody wants the Taoiseach to disclose all these secret things that were discussed but the Taoiseach could have—it is too late now—issued a communiqué.
These discussions to which the Deputy refers were related to specific objectives which they had in view and to which the communiqués related. The discussions I had with the President of the United States were of a general character.
Is it the Taoiseach's view that no information whatsoever should be given to this House relating to discussions between himself and members of a foreign Government?
It is my view that no information should be given to this House regarding confidential discussions of this kind.
Is it not a fact that if the Taoiseach does not give the information, it is quite likely a wrong interpretation will be put on what took place? In view of that fact——
I shall allow no more questions on this matter. There have been a dozen supplementaries already.
Has the Taoiseach come to a secret agreement?
There are three questions involved and you have often allowed half a dozen supplementaries on one.
I have allowed as many questions as I consider desirable in the particular case.
May I ask the Taoiseach——
Deputies
Chair!
Will you not allow a supplementary on Question No. 3?
I am calling Question No. 4.
That is a disgraceful ruling on your part.
(Interruptions.)
Fianna Fáil spent the past 20 years talking about the gimmick of Partition. They used it as a gimmick. They found it very useful in hoodwinking the public over the past 20 years.
"Gimmick" is the Deputy's middle name.