That a sum not exceeding £466,000 be granted to complete the sum necessary to defray the charge which will come in course of payment during the year ending on the 31st day of March, 1965, for the Salaries and Expenses of the Office of Public Works.
Committee on Finance. - Vote 8—Office of Public Works.
This year for the first time I propose to take Votes 8, 9 and 10 together. The purpose of these Votes is well known to Deputies and it is hardly necessary for me to describe them.
The Estimate for Vote 8 shows an increase of £66,500 on the provision for last year. This arises mainly from a revision of accounting arrangements. Until now it has been the practice to recover from other Votes the salaries and expenses of engineers engaged on work covered by those Votes, for example. Arterial Drainage (Vote 9) and Land Project (Vote 40). These charges will for the future, be borne finally on Vote 8. The altered accounting arrangements for Post Office services explains the provision of £17,000 under Subhead C.
When the Estimate was being taken last year, I indicated that under the experiment previously announced, 20 trainee architectural assistants had been recruited and were in training. In view of the promise of success which the scheme holds a second group of trainee architectural assistants has been recruited. A trainee scheme on similar lines for engineering technicians has been initiated and is progressing satisfactorily. Further groups of both classes will it is hoped be recruited this year. The full effect of these schemes of training will be felt in about two years time and the difficult position which has arisen as a result of the shortage of professional staff, both architectural and engineering, will be eased. It is, of course, not the intention to have these technicians doing professional work for which they will not be qualified. There is certain work, which is not properly professional, ancillary to the work of every architect and engineer and it is this which the technicians will be doing. Later the technicians can, of course, take out a professional qualification if they so desire.
The Estimate for Vote 9 also shows an increase over last year's provision. The expansion of activities which, as the House will recall, required a Supplementary Estimate last year, continues.
I shall run briefly through the subheads of the Estimate. The main items covered by Subhead A are the purchase of sites for new Garda stations and the purchase of lands and other properties required for the major fishery harbours schemes.
Subhead AA makes provision for a grant-in-aid to the trustees of the Republican Plot in Glasnevin cemetery. This plot originated in 1868 when a space was leased for the cenotaph to the memory of the Manchester Martyrs, Allen, Larkin, and O'Brien. In addition to the cenotaph the Plot includes the graves of a number of persons who took an active part in the Struggle for Independence, as well as an area in respect of which an option was given many years ago by the Dublin Cemeteries Committee. The option was not taken up and under a trust deed dated 12th October, 1963 the Cemeteries Committee gave a fresh option in respect of the area in question. The trustees recently applied for a grant to enable them to take up that option and, having regard to the history of the Plot, I consider it appropriate that the application should be granted.
Deputies have already been furnished with a statement setting out particulars of the items for which provision has been made in Subhead B, and while it is scarcely necessary for me to go into the details I propose to refer to some of the more important works.
The work on the extension to Leinster House is proceeding satisfactorily. It seems certain that before this time next year the new building including the restaurant, etc., will be in use. Deputies will agree that the amount of inconvenience arising from the building operations has so far been negligible. For this, credit is due to the architects and the builders. Everything possible will be done between now and the completion of the job to minimise upsets to the House, but as the members will, I am sure appreciate these may not be completely avoidable. The part of the scheme which would probably cause the greatest upset to the House is the reconstruction of the Press block immediately behind the Dáil Chamber. In the circumstances it is planned to do this work during the summer recess along with various smaller items such as breaking through existing walls in connection with the new link corridor around the Dáil Chamber.
Since I spoke on this Estimate last year, a low level sound reinforcement system has been introduced into the Chamber, and I think it will be agreed that, notwithstanding some teething difficulties in the early stages, the system has proved to be a success.
A substantial provision has been made for the rebuilding of the demolished drawing room and bedroom block at the State Apartments at Dublin Castle, the site of which has already been cleared. It is hoped to invite tenders for the work very shortly.
Plans have been prepared for the provision of a new building to house the staffs of the Stamping Branch, the Estate Duty Office and other staffs of the Revenue Commissioners totalling about 300, but as the occupants of certain existing buildings on this site will first have to be rehoused, there will be an interval before the work begins.
The cross block with accommodation for about 80 of the Revenue Commissioners' staff is now virtually completed.
A commission has been placed with the sculptor, Edward Delaney, for the preparation of a bronze statue of Davis to be erected in College Green. Mr. Delaney is at present engaged on the preparation of the plaster model of the statue prior to having it cast in bronze. This part of the work is of a tedious nature and I cannot yet say when the bronze figure will be available. Every effort will, of course, be made to expedite the completion of this project.
The main architectural work on the Garden of Remembrance is virtually complete. An additional strip of ground is being acquired from the Rotunda Hospital authorities, which will be used to give a better approach to the Garden along the east side of Parnell Square. This work should be completed by the autumn. A final decision still has to be taken on the form which the central sculptural feature will take.
A sum of £95,000 is included for the temporary ferry terminal at the East Pier, Dún Laoghaire. As has been announced, British Railways will provide a car ferry service between Dún Laoghaire and Holyhead commencing in May, 1965. It was originally intended to reclaim an area between the Mail Boat Pier and the East Pier, Dún Laoghaire, and to provide the terminal facilities for the service in the reclaimed area. There was, however, strong opposition to this proposal and accordingly it was decided that it should be abandoned and an alternative site selected elsewhere in the harbour. Possible alternative sites have been examined and St. Michael's Wharf has now been selected.
The permanent terminal on the new site could not be completed by May, 1965 and it, therefore, became necessary to provide temporary facilities. The only possible site on which even temporary facilities could be made ready in time is at the East Pier. The works required for the temporary terminal include dredging, the construction of a wharf between the existing dolphins, the provision of a mechanically operated ramp, a slight widening of the pier near the landward end and the erection of buildings to accommodate passengers, customs examination hall, etc. The dredging is in hands and will be completed shortly. A contract has been placed for the marine structures and the temporary buildings will be prefabricated and erected when progress with other works permits. The temporary facilities will be removed and the East Pier restored as soon as the permanent terminal is completed.
The Minister for Transport and Power, who for a long time had been pressing British Railways to provide a ferry service, undertook that the terminal facilities would be available when required. The Office of Public Works are simply the authority responsible for the execution of the work.
The sum of £735,000 is provided for improved accommodation for the Garda Síochána. This includes £100,000 for the completion of the training centre at Templemore which is already occupied, and £25,000 for work on the extension of the garage and workshop accommodation at the Garda Depot, Phoenix Park. This is expected to commence soon.
A programme for the replacement of about 250 unsuitable Garda stations and the erection with each rural station of at least one house for a married member of the force is being undertaken. It is proposed to spend £180,000 on this in the current year. Last year 14 stations and 17 houses were completed and contracts for a further 21 stations and 33 houses are at present in progress. In addition, a large Metropolitan station was completed last year at Cabra and another is at present being built at Crumlin. Improvements are also being undertaken at various existing stations and it is hoped to spend £30,000 on these in the current year.
The National Building Agency Ltd., are erecting houses for married members of the Garda Síochána at various centres throughout the country and the expenditure incurred by them is recouped by the Office of Public Works. £400,000 is being provided for this purpose this year. This programme constitutes a substantial contribution to the provision of houses in the provinces.
Work is proceeding satisfactorily on the erection of a Memorial at the Depot in the Phoenix Park to Gardaí who lost their lives in the performance of duty and it should be completed next autumn.
I spoke at length last year, and again in February when I introduced the Supplementary Estimate, about school building. I outlined the progress made, the task still to be accomplished and the steps that have been taken to cope with the programme. During the year ended 31st March, 1964, contracts were placed for the erection of 113 new schools and the execution of 75 major improvement schemes. On 1st April, 1964, there were 233 building projects in hands, 159 new schools and 74 major improvement schemes. Expenditure on this service in 1963-64 amounted to £2,326,000 which was the highest ever. A provision of £2.4 million is proposed for 1964-65.
The expanded programme which the Office of Public Works is now putting into effect and which is reflected in the provision proposed for 1964-65 has brought with it certain practical problems which must be overcome. We are anxiously concerned with solving the school building problem as quickly as we can and for that purpose we are engaged in research into all aspects of school building techniques to find the best solution. One of the objectives of the research, and an important one, has been to increase the speed of erection of new buildings. After all, improved planning and design will be of no avail if we cannot produce completed buildings at a rate fast enough to meet requirements.
It is clear that the methods used, until now, are no longer adequate. A prototype of a new modular plan building, in which factory-made timber units are used extensively, is being erected in Ballyboghill, County Dublin. This type of building can be put together quickly and lends itself to mass production of the component parts and the completed buildings. I am having a short film, to illustrate the design and construction of the Ballyboghill school, made with a sound commentary. It is proposed to show this to managers, to architects and to builders to give them the opportunity of appreciating fully the advantages.
To exploit fully this type of construction technique it would be desirable to place contracts for a number of buildings with one contractor, so that several projects may proceed simultaneously, or at least that there should be no interruption between the completion of one building and the commencement of the next. To permit of smooth transition from one job to the next it would be necessary to obviate the delays which are inherent in the present system of tendering by substituting bulk tendering. The contractual details for a large number of jobs can be settled in advance and the way opened for the systematic erection of schools according to the pre-determined programme. It is hoped to devise a system of bulk tendering this year.
It is not enough, of course, to accelerate the programme at the building stage only: all the preliminary processes must be speeded up, right back to the initial step—the provision of sites. The provision of sites for schools is a local liability and it is the responsibility of the manager to acquire and offer the site to the Department of Education. On this question of the provision of sites and the responsibilities of managers, it has been remarked to me that a false impression might be created by certain observations made by me during the debate on the Supplementary Estimate in February. The suggestion that in some cases all was not well has been misconstrued as a reflection on managers. Might I say that the very large number of schools being built is proof of the zeal of so many managers for their schools? We hear now and then of an odd exception and the publicity given to it goes to obscure, and to make people forget the excellent co-operation of the general body of managers.
It is no harm for me to repeat that there are about 650 schools now requiring to be replaced and it is hoped to clear these in the next six or seven years. Old schools, of course, will continue to fall due for replacement and accordingly to deal with the school requirements comprehensively will take up to ten years.
A secondary problem facing us is the provision of running water and w.c's in all schools. This is not an easy matter in country districts. We have developed a free-standing prefabricated sanitary block, a prototype of which has been erected at St. Patrick's National School, Drumcondra, Dublin. This may prove to be the solution to the problem.
Tenders have been received for the extension to the National Gallery and a contract will soon be placed. The addition will provide 43,000 square feet of additional gallery space, a lecture theatre to seat 300, an Art library and some storage. The upper floors will include administrative offices and interconnected galleries communicating with the existing galleries at the main floor levels. When the work— which will take about three years—is completed it will be possible to display many pictures that are not now available to the public for want of space.
The preparation of plans for the erection of a Preventive Centre at Finglas, Dublin, is well advanced and construction work will, it is hoped, commence this year. The new building which will have accommodation for about 85 boys will replace the present House of Detention at Glasnevin and will help the type of boy who requires only a short period of specialist corrective treatment to regain the road to good citizenship.
May I interrupt the Parliamentary Secretary? Does the House of Detention replace what we used to call Summerhill?
Yes. A provision of £200,000 has been included for the development of major fishery harbours at Dunmore East, Killybegs, Castletownbere, Howth and Galway. Construction works started last summer at Dunmore East and a start was made recently at Killybegs. As a first stage of the development at Castletownbere the existing pier requires temporary strengthening. A fairly extensive scheme of dredging will also be undertaken. The work to the pier is expected to commence about the end of next month and the dredging later in the summer.
Difficulties have been encountered, particularly at Killybegs and Castletownbere, in the acquisition of privately owned property which is essential to the commencement of full scale development operations. It now seems clear that legislation will be necessary to overcome these difficulties and this matter is being considered at present.
Site and model investigations have been completed for Howth and Galway but the schemes for those harbours have not yet been settled.
A sum of £25,000 has been provided for improvement works in fishery interests at other small harbours around the coast as follows: Schull, County Cork; Ballinacarta and Green-castle, County Donegal; Cahirciveen, County Kerry; Clogherhead, County Louth; Enniscrone, County Sligo and Passage East, County Waterford.
A provision of almost £260,000 is being made for a variety of works in agricultural interests, at Abbotstown Farm, Athenry Agricultural School, Backweston Farm, Ballyhaise Agricultural School, Clonakilty Agricultural School, the Munster Institute, Thorndale, and the Veterinary College at Ballsbridge. The new residential colleges at Athenry and Clonakilty are nearing completion and the new Veterinary Field Station at Abbotstown Farm is well under way. So also is the extension of the pig progeny testing station at the Munster Institute.
Almost £300,000 is provided for various works for the Department of Posts and Telegraphs, the chief of which is the erection, now in progress, of a new central sorting office in Dublin. Another large scale work in progress is the building of new warehousing accommodation at St. John's Road, Dublin. Other substantial works are proceeding at Ballinasloe, Ennis, Wexford, Wicklow and Youghal.
The planning of the new building for the Departments of Health and Social Welfare at Haddington Road is nearly completed but at the moment I cannot say when work on it is likely to commence.
The £20,000 in subhead BB provides for works of coast protection already in progress at Rosslare Strand and Wicklow. It also includes a sum for any schemes which may mature during the year under the Coast Protection Act, 1963.
Subheads C to H do not require much comment except perhaps in regard to the national monuments service which comes under subhead C. Work on the conservation of national monuments has continued satisfactorily. The expenditure in the year just finished was £40,000 which was reasonable considering that special skilled staffs are needed and that the work must be slow if it is to be effective.
A full archaeological investigation of Ballintober Abbey was completed and works are now in hand to present the findings and set out the ruins of the Abbey. Another work of an unusual nature is the restoration of Rothe House, Kilkenny, for the Kilkenny Archaeological Society.
The Commissioners are under constant pressure to take over monuments for preservation and while they have full sympathy with the claims of the different monuments it has to be realised that everything cannot be done all at once and that the process must be gradual. State ownership, without prospect of early works, serves no purpose and the skilled resources for carrying out works are limited. However the number of monuments in State care is constantly being added to. A recent notable addition was Tintern Abbey, County Wexford. Monuments to be acquired shortly include the castles at Trim and Cahir.
An exhibition of photographs of national monuments was held at the Royal Dublin Society Horse Show in August, 1963, and at the Building Centre, London, in January of this year. It is now being presented in Vienna. The press reports indicate a very wide and very favourable reception. Other centres, both at home and abroad, will see the exhibition as it becomes possible to make arrangements. It will also be shown in Canada and the United States.
We have considered the proposal for a special independent body to deal comprehensively with monuments, but we think it would be better to defer the idea for the time being. Alternative interim suggestions have been put forward and I am having these examined. Also, the Minister for Finance has agreed to increase the allocation for the service by £10,000 a year for the next five years. We will then be spending £100,000 a year, twice as much as at present. This would enable more preservation and development works to be undertaken, and produce results of value to our own people and the tourist.
A programme of aerial photography in this country was organised for the summer of 1963 by Dr. St. Joseph of Cambridge University. Despite unfavourable weather conditions, Dr. St. Joseph's team made two visits and took over 600 photographs of sites of different kinds suggested by various organisations, including the Office of Public Works which supplied a fairly full list of archaeological sites. A representative cross-section of the sites was photographed. Prints have been supplied to the National Museum where they can be seen by appointment. A further programme will probably be carried out in the summer of 1964. I should add that the survey is experimental and is not intended to be a comprehensive one.
The second stage of the archaeological survey of the country has been initiated and field work will be begun shortly. Aerial photography will play an important part in the detection and recording of sites. It is expected that satisfactory arrangements can be made with the Department of Defence to have this work done by the Army Air Corps.
Not before its time.
Archaeological excavation is carried out by trained archaeologists, under the aegis of the Royal Irish Academy, with the aid of grants from public funds. Much valuable work has been, and is being, done and the nation, and, indeed, the learned world as a whole, is much indebted to the enthusiasm of these workers. It is rarely they come into the limelight. I must, also, pay a tribute to the work of the Archaeological and Historical Societies throughout the country which are performing a very valuable service in awakening the interest of the public in our heritage.
The Hill of Tara has been the subject of publicity recently. Archaeological remains on the Hill of Tara are in the guardianship of the Commissioners of Public Works and are adequately protected. The entirety of the Hill is a national monument and accordingly has the full protection of the National Monuments Acts, 1930 and 1954. The Commissioners are owners in fee simple of 43 acres on the south side of the Hill. The remainder of the area containing about 70 acres is owned privately. Negotiations for the purchase of portion of this, amounting to 58 acres, have been latterly conducted by Bord Fáilte Éireann but owing to nonagreement on price, were deferred. The Commissioners of Public Works, under the National Monuments Acts, have powers of compulsory acquisition which could be used at any time, if necessary. In that event, the purchase price would be determined by an arbitrator.
St. Stephen's Green, the maintenance of which is also provided for under Subhead C, is a pleasant oasis in the city and I think the careful and constant attention it receives is appreciated by the citizens and visitors generally. Minor improvements are carried out from time to time but the possibility of having more extensive improvements effected so as to make it an even more attractive feature of the city is now being examined. The advice of a landscape architect may be availed of.
The Green is, of course, only one of the State parks in the care of the Office of Public Works. The others are Phoenix Park, the Bourn Vincent Memorial Park at Muckross in Killarney and Garnish Island, Glengariff.
The present Subhead G in Vote 9 covers an item—Services carried out on an Agency basis by the Department of Posts and Telegraphs—not previously shown separately. There is a reciprocal new item in the appropriations-in-aid subhead—Subhead K. This is in accordance with the new accounting arrangements introduced by the Department.
The I group of subheads deals with arterial drainage and embankment construction works and associated services. The survey and design of a drainage scheme for a major catchment is a very great task which occupies several years. The carrying out of the scheme requires even more time. Consequently, there can be no spectacular change in the overall drainage position in the relatively short space of twelve months. At present construction works are proceeding on four major catchment schemes:— the Corrib-Clare in Counties Galway, Mayo and Roscommon; the Inny in Counties Cavan, Longford, Meath and Westmeath; the Moy in Counties Mayo, Roscommon and Sligo; and the Deel in Counties Limerick and Cork; and on two minor catchments:—the Broadmeadow in Counties Dublin and Meath and the Killimor in County Galway.
Embankment reconstruction and repair schemes are in hand on:— the northern bank of the Shannon estuary, Coonagh section, and the southern bank in the Ballinaclogh, and Ring-moylan-Mellon sections; the Swilly estuary, Castlewray-Thorn and Big Isle sections.
The total cost to date of all schemes completed or in hands amounts to over £16 million and they have given benefit to 400,000 acres of land. An embankment scheme for the River Maigue outfall section—the biggest section of the Shannon estuary chain of embankments—is about to commence. Surveys have also been made of embankments on the River Swilly above Letterkenny.
Survey and design work is proceeding on schemes for the following major catchments:—the Boyne in counties Louth, Meath, Cavan, Westmeath, Offaly and Kildare; the Erne in Counties Cavan, Leitrim, Longford and Monaghan; the Suir in Counties Tipperary, Waterford, Kilkenny and Limerick; the Maigue in Counties Limerick and Tipperary; the Corrib-Mask in Counties Galway and Mayo; the Mulkear in Counties Limerick and Tipperary; the Boyle in Counties Roscommon, Mayo, and Sligo; the Owenmore in Counties Sligo, Roscommon and Mayo; and three minor catchments: the Bonet in Counties Leitrim and Sligo, the Quin in County Clare and the Owenkeagh, County Cork.
It is hoped to commence, also, this year engineering surveys of two more minor catchments, the Dunkellin and Lavally both in County Galway.
Progress is being made with the extension of the main arterial drainage programme to deal with what are called "intermediate rivers", small catchments with independent outfalls to the sea or larger lakes and which do not form part of listed catchments.
Two schemes—the Swilly downstream of Letterkenny and the Owvane, County Cork—have been completed. Work is in progress under contract on the Duff scheme in Counties Sligo and Leitrim; the Matt (or Ring) River in County Dublin; the Abbey River in County Donegal. Tenders have been received for the Brickey river scheme, County Waterford.
Schemes are being considered for the Lough Nahinch, or Carrigahorig, County Tipperary; the Knockcroghery or Ballyglass, County Roscommon; the Owenavorragh, County Wexford; the Creegh, County Clare; the Cloone Burn, County Donegal; the Kilcoole, County Wicklow; the Oranhill, County Galway; and the Lee (Upper), County Cork. Engineering and valuation surveys of further intermediate river catchments will be undertaken this year.
It may interest Deputies to learn that aerial photography has been used for drainage survey work. There is a standing arrangement with the Department of Defence under which the Air Corps provide this service.
Aerial photography is not, of course, a substitute for ordinary ground survey. It is, however, a useful supplement, particularly in the delineation of flooded areas, the location of post drainage lake shore boundaries and in securing periodic records of meandering tidal estuarine channels. Aerial photography has also been used in connection with marine works such as coast erosion and major fishery harbour surveys. Development in the commercial field of aerial survey will be kept under observation with a view to extending the use of that technique in connection with arterial drainage and marine works surveys.
There are two other matters I would like to mention in connection with arterial drainage. The first relates to the central engineering workshop where all the drainage plant is serviced. The re-organisation of stores and material control has been completed. The costing service is being revised and extended and it is intended by the end of the financial year 1964-65 to have a system of management accounting in operation. This will ensure a close and continual check on the efficiency of the workshop.
The second matter relates to the introduction of the incentive bonus scheme to which I made reference last year. Incentive bonus is now being operated on two drainage schemes, namely, Broadmeadow and Inny, and it is continuing to prove beneficial to the workers and the State. It is hoped to extend it to other drainage schemes as the staff position permits.
Excluding civil servants, the Office of Public Works gives direct employment to about 2,800 men and the annual wage bill is of the order of £1,200,000. In addition, very many more men are employed on the works done by contract.
Before finishing with the Estimate for Vote 9, I should like to direct the attention of Deputies to the first issue of the Office of Public Works bulletin, Oibre. We hope to have further issues at least once a year. As Deputies will have noted the bulletin is not intended to be a comprehensive report on the activities of the Office of Public Works. It merely presents a few facets of those activities in, I hope, an interesting way. Too often little is known of the important work of the Office and for a long time I have felt that something should be done to keep the general public informed. The bulletin is an attempt to do that.
Objection has been taken to the title of the bulletin, Oibre. This, which is an old plural form, is the telegraphic address of the Commissioners and was chosen deliberately for the bulletin with full knowledge of the fact that “Oibreacha” is the standard form. A different title may be chosen for the next issue.
The Vote for Employment and Emergency Schemes for the coming year shows a net increase of £43,600. compared with 1963-64. There is an increase of £50,000 for Rural Improvements Schemes, Subhead H, offset by a net decrease of £4,400 in the administrative subheads, and by an increase of £2,000 in the estimated receipts of appropriations-in-aid, Subhead J. The Estimate does not provide for the 9th round wage increases to staffs covered by Subhead A.
As on previous occasions, I have circulated for the information of Deputies a statement of the expenditure under the various subheads in each year since 1956/57. The figures for the financial year just closed are subject to revision, but it is expected that almost the full amount of the Vote will be expended.
The numbers of men employed on the schemes are subject to seasonal variation, being highest in the winter months when the need for additional employment is greatest. At the peak period of employment in the week ended 14th December, 1963, a total of 3,737 men were employed on schemes financed from last year's Vote. Of these 2,795 were employed on the works carried out expressly as employment schemes under Subheads D, E, and F, and 942 on the improvement schemes financed from Subheads G, H, and I. Some 596 men were employed in the urban areas, including the county boroughs; 259 in the non-urbanised towns; and 2,882 in the rural areas.
The annual census of adult male unemployment assistance recipients and unemployment insurance benefit claimants was taken on 25th January, 1964 and gave a return of 22,752 UA men compared with 23,357 in 1963, and 22,656 men in 1962. The change compared with 1963 was greatest in the county boroughs and other urban areas where there was a drop of 11.1 per cent. In the non-urbanised towns there was a drop of 5.4 per cent and in the rural areas an increase of 1.3 per cent. The combined 1964 census figure for UA and UIB men was 52,502 compared with 56,972 in 1963 and 52,489 in 1962.
Coming to the individual subheads of the Estimate for the current year, there is a reduction of £5,500 under Subhead A, Salaries, Wages and Allowances, due partly to the replacement of senior officers on retirement by junior officers on lower points of the salary scales, and partly to a decision that the Office of Public Works will not in future recover from the Vote the salaries and expenses of their staff engaged on marine works on an agency basis. This decision is also the principal reason for the reduction to £600 in the Estimate for Subhead B, Travelling and Incidental Expenses. As I have already stated, the ninth round wage increases have not been provided for and it is estimated that they will add approximately £12,000 to the expenditure under Subhead A.
Consequent on the grant of established status to some of the supervisors, formerly known as supervising gangers, and unestablished status to the others, it has been decided that it is now more appropriate to charge their wages and travelling expenses to Subheads A and B respectively, instead of to the works Subheads F, G and H. In the printed Estimate, the 1963/64 figures have been revised to show a true comparison between the amounts of the subheads for the two years. The duties of these supervisors include the furnishing of reports and estimates on minor employment and bog development applications. They also assist the inspectors in the supervision of all schemes in the counties in which works are carried out by the Special Employment Schemes Office engineers.
The introduction of a new Subhead, C, arises from a general direction affecting all Votes, that in future payments in cash should be made for all services rendered by the Department of Posts and Telegraphs.
The provision under Subhead D, for employment schemes in the four County Boroughs of Dublin, Cork, Limerick and Waterford, in the Borough of Dún Laoghaire and in the 55 other urban areas is the same as last year, £200,000. The grants are conditional on the local authorities submitting suitable work schemes through the Department of Local Government, and contributing towards their cost. It is expected that the local contributions will amount to £41,000 making a total of £241,000 for initiation of new schemes during the year.
Last year, schemes were approved to the total value of £234,675, of which £170,974 went to road works including footpaths, and the balance, £63,701 to amenity schemes, including the laying out and development of parks, clearance of derelict sites, construction of riverside walks and the development of open spaces. Including local contributions, the allocation was £112,500 for Dublin, £21,000 Cork, £16,800 Limerick, £9,335 Waterford, £4,375 Dún Laoghaire, and £70,665 for the 55 other urban areas. The allocations in the other urban areas varied from a minimum of £350 in small towns like Carrickmacross to £6,000 in Dundalk.
It has always been the policy that these schemes should justify themselves as useful public works apart from their value as employment schemes. The aim has been to keep a reasonable balance between "relief" and "efficiency" by selecting schemes which lend themselves to efficient operation by direct labour without resorting to the extreme mechanisation which a public works contractor would use. Road improvement works continue to be the mainstay of these programmes. In areas like Dublin and Cork, however, there has, owing to the high standard of work required for modern traffic conditions, necessarily been some increase in the use of plant leading to greater employment of semi-skilled men; and in areas like these we have had to accept schemes with as low as 25 per cent unskilled labour. I am satisfied, however, that these urban schemes are well worth while, and that there is a distinct social advantage in reserving even this limited amount of work in the various areas for men who would otherwise have to remain on the dole.
The provision under Subhead E, Rural Employment Schemes, is also the same as last year, £35,000. With the county councils contributing one-quarter of the cost, a total of £46,665 will be available for grants for works in the non-urbanised towns having the required minimum of registered unemployed.
Last year some 145 schemes averaging £322 were sanctioned for 138 of the 484 non-urbanised towns in each of which there were not less than eleven unemployed. No grants were given in the other 346 towns in which there were in all only 985 unemployed of whom 175 were UA men. Of these schemes 135 costing £43,657 were for road works, including £33,722 for the reconstruction of footpaths or their extension on the outskirts of the towns. The remaining ten were amenity schemes including clearance of derelict sites, improvements to a fair green and the provision of recreational walks. Most of the allocations were limited to £270 but higher grants were given for the larger town areas such as Kilkee, Edenderry, Balbriggan, Tuam, Mullingar, et cetera.
The Estimate for Minor Employment Schemes, Subhead F, £124,000, is also the same as for last year, when adjustment has been made for the transfer of the cost of the wages and travelling expenses of supervisors to Subheads A and B, already referred to. As heretofore, full cost grants will be available in the winter period for the repair and reconstruction of accommodation and bog roads in the electoral divisions, mainly in the western counties, in which the numbers of unemployment assistance recipients as recorded at the January census is sufficient to justify the grants.
Last year 914 grants averaging £142 were sanctioned in 383 qualifying electoral divisions of the total 2,874 in the country. The bulk of the expenditure was in Donegal, Mayo, Galway, Kerry, Leitrim, Sligo and Roscommon, but grants were given in fewer than a dozen areas in each of the other Minor Employment Schemes counties of Cavan, Clare, West Cork, Limerick and Longford.
The provision for Bog Development Schemes, Subhead G, £155,000, is also the same as last year, allowing for the change in regard to Supervisors' wages and travelling expenses. These are not employment schemes in the strict sense, although unemployment assistance recipients get priority in employment. The criteria for the allocation of grants are: the cost; the annual rate of turf production on the bog; and the number of families served. Many more schemes come up for consideration than can be approved, and it is only the more important cases, judged on the above criteria, that are finally listed. I consider, however, that the proposed provision will be sufficient to deal with the most urgent cases coming up for attention in 1964-65.
Last year 1,318 bog development schemes averaging approximately £121 were approved, representing a total allocation of £160,000. Bog drainage schemes numbered 643 and amounted to £72,435. There were 675 road schemes amounting to £87,565.
The proposed provision for Rural Improvements Schemes, Subhead H, £267,000, shows an increase of £50,000 compared with last year allowing for the change in regard to supervisors' salaries and expenses. As Deputies are aware, the provision for this very popular scheme has been previously increased from £200,000 to £225,000 in 1962-63 making a total increase of £75,000 since 1962.
Last year 637 new schemes averaging £302 were authorised at a total cost of £192,521. Of these 472 schemes costing £155,351 were road and bridge works and 165 schemes costing £37,170 were drainage works. Taking into account the commitments at 1st April, 1963, in respect of uncompleted schemes already sanctioned, the total expenditure in 1963-64 is estimated at £237,000 compared with the provision of £225,000.
The demand for grants under this scheme is still running very high, and while the additional provision of £50,000 will go some distance towards easing the pressure it will not by any means resolve all our difficulties in regard to arrears of applications. We had been accepting contributions for a number of months past on the basis that the work could not be sanctioned until after 1st April, 1964, that is, the new financial year. Approximately £123,000 of the new provision of £267,000 has been taken up by schemes for which the contribution had been received before 1st April, 1964, and the balance of £144,000 will not be enough to cater for all the existing applications outstanding at the present time. We cannot sanction any new applications at all, and a proportion of those already on hands will have to wait over until the following financial year before they could be put in hands.
There will necessarily also be some delay in the inspection of existing applications due to the difficulties in filling vacancies in the engineering staff. In the last twelve months two of the serving inspectors resigned so that there are still three vacancies and efforts are continuing to fill these.
The provision for Miscellaneous Schemes, Subhead I, £17,000, is also the same as for last year. While the ambit of this Subhead is very wide and can cover schemes of very varying character, in practice the bulk of the grants are earmarked for archaeological excavation schemes carried out under the aegis of the Royal Irish Academy, and minor marine works sponsored by the Department of Agriculture or by the Fisheries Branch of the Department of Lands. Last year, grants amounting to £8,150 were made for five excavation schemes, including £4,500 for the completion of the scheme at High Street, Dublin, and £2,000 for the continuation of the excavations at Newgrange, County Meath. Grants amounting to £6,371, supplemented by county council contributions of £2,124 making a total of £8,495 were authorised for the improvement of landing facilities at Gerahies near Bantry, at Crookhaven and at Garnish near Allihies, all in West Cork.
The main item in the estimate of £43,000 for receipts under the Appropriations-in-Aid, Subhead J, is £40,000 for Rural Improvements Schemes. It is expected that total receipts in 1963/64 will fall short of the £41,000 estimate, by about £2,000, because of a reduction in the number of offers of grants issued under the Rural Improvements Scheme.
If Deputies require more information either now or later on any matters in these three Votes, I shall do my best to give it to them. I may add that the staffs of the Office of Public Works, the Special Employment Schemes Office, and myself are at all times ready to help them in any way we can.
I move:
That the Vote be referred back for reconsideration.
Looking through this Estimate we find the old recurring item. Apparently it will always be with us: Arus an Uachtaráin, total estimated cost of improvements to the plant house and accommodation, £11,000: total expenditure to 31st March, 1964, £10,000. Over the past ten years, I would estimate that we have spent over £30,000 on Arus an Uachtaráin.
With regard to Leinster House, I am sure it is great news for the gentlemen of the Press and the Press Gallery generally that their accommodation will be brought up to date in the new building. That improvement has been overdue for many years. I am sure Deputies have had the experience of going into the Pressroom and finding an enormous number of men working under appalling conditions. They were overcrowded and they did not seem to have the normal amenities and facilities or the kind of conditions they would have in a newspaper office, or, indeed, in any industrial office. The accommodation is quite inadequate. I am sure the Parliamentary Secretary will press on with the work so that all these amenities and facilities will be available to the members of the Press gallery when we come back, please God, towards the end of the year.
The Parliamentary Secretary referred to the sound equipment here. While I will not say it is a complete success, it is certainly a great improvement. It was often very difficult to hear the Minister for Finance, for instance, over here. It was often practically impossible to hear him in any part of the House. Indeed, he was the sounding board for a good many of us over here.
There were more than the Minister at fault.
There were.
I am delighted to be able to hear the Deputy now.
It is a good thing to have a bit of sense getting across to the Deputy.
It is a pleasant experience for me to be able to stand here and talk in a normal tone of voice. I often had to shout to make myself heard above the thunder of——
Abuse.
——abuse hurled at me from the Fianna Fáil benches.
I am not being contentious in the matter I now propose to raise. I know that in the new building the oil paintings of Griffith, Collins and O'Higgins will come back. There are experts in every field and, like doctors, they do not always agree. With regard to these oils, some maintain they should be under glass while others maintain they should not. Now, in every art gallery, including those in Dublin, there are notices saying "No smoking." I hold that these oils should be under glass here because, otherwise, they will deteriorate. The atmosphere will not be conducive to preservation, temperature varies.
I hope that when the rebuilding and decoration of Leinster House has been completed, the Meagher Flag of the 69th New York Regiment, the flag which was so generously presented to the Irish people by the late President Kennedy, will be exhibited in a place of honour in this House. I feel a particular sentiment about this flag and I think a short history of it should be printed. The history of the flag is that in December, 1862, hundreds and hundreds of men having been killed in a desperate attack the Irish Brigade had to go in. One standard bearer after another, and one flag after another, had been shot down. Brave men kept coming forward taking up the flag, but they were shattered, one after another.
The Brigade continued to go in and succeeded in breaking through the Confederate line. The flags and the flagstaff were cut to pieces. In the ordinary course of events, a fresh set of flags was ordered from the depot in New York and carried at the battle of Fredericksburg. General Meagher drew the attention of the men to the fact that there was a boxhedge nearby and they took green sprigs from it and pinned them to their hats, to the US flag, Old Glory, and to their company pennants. We have a great treasure in Waterford city in one of the pennants which was carried at Fredericksburg, and which still has a piece of green boxhedge pinned to it. We should have more appreciation of these treasures. The people can see the green battle standard presented to the nation by the late President Kennedy, but we should also have a reasonably good history of it.
We are very glad that the statue of Thomas Davis is in hand, and we hope the plaster model will be in hand quickly. There are great difficulties, because artists cannot be rushed as we can rush an ordinary contracting business. We welcome the fact that the Garden of Remembrance is virtually complete. Several of my constituents have asked me to refer to that matter.
It appears that there is great objection by some people to the proposal in regard to Dún Laoghaire Harbour. I know this is not within the Parliamentary Secretary's bailiwick, but I should like to know what the objection is. I am not surprised that there is some objection, because no matter what the Minister for Transport and Power puts his finger in, he seems to be able to detonate the people concerned. We need better facilities for landing cars at Dún Laoghaire. I have been there myself to meet friends, and I have seen the frightful state of affairs there. In bad weather, people who come to meet their friends have to stand out in the rain because there is no shelter. On two occasions I saw people getting drenched.
I want an explanation from the Parliamentary Secretary regarding works undertaken for the Garda Síochána. I see that £620,000 is provided for Templemore. Will the Parliamentary Secretary tell me did the Department of Justice jump the gun and say: "We do not want the Office of Public Works to do this work; we will do it ourselves"? If the Office of Public Works were unable to reach on that work because of a shortage of staff, say, I should like that explanation to be given to the House, because I would prefer work of that type to be carried out by the Office of Public Works.
A sum of £13,900 is provided for a memorial to Gardaí who lost their lives in the performance of their duty. Would the Parliamentary Secretary tell us what the form of the memorial is to be? Will it be a monument, or a statue, with the names of the men inscribed on it.
The provision for houses for married members of the Garda Síochána is £400,000. The Parliamentary Secretary will excuse me for saying this—I am sometimes twitted by my colleagues about it—but in the past ten years, I have seen enormous sums of money voted for different purposes, but it is never spent in my constituency. The Garda in Waterford have to live in houses, the same as anyone else. I know the Parliamentary Secretary is informed by the Department of Justice where the houses are to be built, but I want to take this opportunity to ask why houses are not built for members of the Garda in Waterford. A further 21 new Garda stations are to be built, but there is only one down for Waterford. It is there so long now that we look upon it as a kind of a fairy story. When will it start or will it ever start? I have been asking the Minister for Justice for years when he will build the new Garda station in Tramore. The present one is located outside the town. We pay taxes but we get nothing back.
With regard to primary schools, I have been to the opening of many new schools which I must say are excellent. I have been mentioning this practically since I came into the House. Would the Parliamentary Secretary consider making this point to the school managers or to the Department of Education? The schools are called after saints. There should be a statue or a painting of the saint or some work of art should be commissioned by the Office of Public Works in order to give our young artists an opportunity of earning their bread and of showing what they are capable of turning out in the way of a work of art in this year of 1964.
I have not seen the new prototype schools but I have seen pictures of them in the newspapers and I have talked to my friends about them. I suppose it is a very good idea. Some people want a school erected practically overnight. It may happen that a school becomes overcrowded because a new housing scheme opens in an area near it. The Parliamentary Secretary has then to provide increased accommodation in the school quickly. I should like to compliment him in that respect. It is a good idea to try a new thing and if it is a failure, we shall not be too hard on the Parliamentary Secretary. However I have an idea that it will be a success.
We often say that temporary buildings are not the thing, that they do not last, that they are not good, and so on. Maybe what I have to say now will give the Parliamentary Secretary a litle bit of hope and he may use this if he likes. When I was brought by the hand to my first school, I was promoted to the gallery in the infants' class. That was in Philip Street School in Waterford. It was a kind of clapboard, corrugated-iron temporary building. It is there yet and has given very good service. Many people might sneer at it. It will be taken down for a new building but it has given very good service. I am sure that this, say, modular plan building which the Parliamentary Secretary has erected is much better. It is better looking and I think it will be a success. I wish him luck with it.
The Parliamentary Secretary says his idea is that the contract details for a large number of jobs might be settled in advance. That is very interesting. I am sure the Office of Public Works will see to it that the proper foundations and other necessary requirements are satisfactorily provided when these prefabricated walls are sent out.
There are 650 schools to be replaced. I think more money should be voted to the Parliamentary Secretary's Office so as to step-up the work. A great number of schools are now falling down. I do not say that the Office of Public Works can build them all in the one year because that would be impossible but I think the pace should be speeded up a bit more. I am only too well aware of the great difficulty in providing running water in many of the rural schools.
It is balm to my soul to read that a provision has been included for the development of major fishery harbours, including Dunmore East. At last, Dunmore East is recognised as the premier fishing port in Ireland. We now have it in writing from the Office of Public Works. Work has started down there and it will justify itself. I have visited several fishing harbours and seen great works there but it was just a case of throwing money away because no fish were being caught there and there was no intention of catching fish there. However, Dunmore East can be developed into a great fish market.
There is a subhead in respect of works of economic development at other fishery harbours. I am surprised and very grateful to see that Passage East is included. The Parliamentary Secretary to the Minister for Lands was down there on the occasion of the dispute with the fishermen and he told us that this work would be pressed ahead. I hope it will not be put on the long finger like Tramore barracks.
From time to time, there is mention here and outside of our national heritage. We have a national heritage. The Office of Public Works look after our national monuments. I have seen some of that work throughout the country and it is excellent. The Department of Local Government make roads to some of them. The Tourist Board make roads to some of our national monuments and the Office of Public Works do the same thing. There should be some co-ordination between these three bodies—the Department of Local Government, Bord Fáilte, and the Office of Public Works—so that one body would do this.
I submit the proper co-ordinating body in this matter is the Office of Public Works. They are the people who, in the first place, preserve the smaller ancient monuments and the historical remains that are a national heritage. I particularly ask the Parliamentary Secretary to take note of that and I appeal to the Minister for Local Government and the Minister for Transport and Power to examine the position in regard to matters like this and have their efforts co-ordinated. We have the sentiment in regard to these things but it is no harm to say that, apart from being a national heritage, these historical things are a national asset. Tourists are interested in the history of the country they visit and all the more so if they see history brought to life in the great abbeys, castles or churches. They are interested in prehistoric remains which show development and in things that existed before the dawn of history.
There is a great lios at Harristown, County Waterford, over the estuary. This, one may say, relates to the Stonehenge period, probably Phoenician. With the help of the Office of Public Works, the late Canon Power did a very good job on this 15 or 20 years ago but it is impossible to get to the lios unless you are a good climber. When you get there you find you can see the whole Waterford estuary, out over Hook Tower cape and you can also see the Saltee Islands and the coast down to Dungarvan, one of the most wonderful views imaginable. When we develop these sites a short road should be provided with an apron on which to park cars.
I note that the Board of Works are restoring the Rothe House in Kilkenny for Kilkenny Archaeological Society. This is a magnificent Tudor building and I think the only one of its kind in the country. The society collected a good deal of money and then approached the Government. I am glad the Board of Works have taken the matter in hand. Work has been going on for some time there as I have seen scaffolding there for the past year. Kilkenny is one of our most interesting cities from the point of view of historical remains, and I compliment the Parliamentary Secretary on this job.
The Parliamentary Secretary mentioned that they were to take over Cahir Castle. That is practically perfect but some boys apparently got in there and did more damage than the Earl of Essex when he took it. All the windows were smashed. And I ask the Parliamentary Secretary, if he is taking that over as I think he is, to get the Board of Works to take steps immediately to notify the Gardaí in Cahir to try to prevent trespass there. That would be another great tourist attraction and will not involve great expenditure.
I take no credit from the Parliamentary Secretary regarding aerial surveys but the first time I heard this mentioned was some years ago when it was suggested by the Leader of my Party, Deputy Dillon. I am glad it has been taken up because I have seen some wonderful pictures taken from the air which showed prehistoric remains that nobody previously knew were there.
It is good that we in the Parliament of the country should compliment historical and archaeological societies on their good work in keeping records and preserving small items of interest that perhaps would not come to the attention of the Board of Works.
I am sure the Hill of Tara is safe in the hands of the Board with the powers they now have. It would be impossible now for amateur excavators to come along and do as was done in the early part of this century by amateurs who came in and probably did untold damage. I read in the papers of a suggestion to move back the railings at St. Stephen's Green 20 or 30 feet so that we could park cars. I suggest the Parliamentary Secretary should give Carson's answer to that: "Not an inch." I walk in Stephen's Green occasionally and I think it is one of the most wonderful small parks in the world. The air is like wine in the mornings. The gardeners employed by the Board of Works are the most helpful and courteous people I have met in such gardens, and go to great trouble telling inquirers when certain blooms will appear, what is expected and whether or not something was disappointing. This is really worthwhile.
We spend a lot of money on arterial drainage and I suppose that is right. We spend a lot in the west of Ireland and I do not begrudge it because I saw the dreadful floods there when I was a boy. I often heard people say then: "If we had our own Government, something would be done." It has been done and it is good that it has been done. The total cost to date of all schemes completed or in hands amounts to over £16 million—we cannot call this a cowardly country—and they have given benefit to 400,000 acres of land.
What I am interested in, and it is not in my constituency, is the survey and design work proceeding on schemes for major catchments. There is the scheme for the Boyne in Counties Louth, Meath, Cavan, Westmeath. I commend the Office of Public Works for this, even though they have put the Boyne before my own river, the Suir, because I realise that some of the best land is along the Boyne. It is good that when development works of this sort have been completed in Mayo, Galway and Roscommon, the men and machines should move into the Boyne area and the great catchment there. I know that this will result in a great improvement in some of the most valuable land in the country. The Erne is next, followed by the Suir and the the Maigue in Limerick and Tipperary.
A few years ago when the Parliamentary Secretary was appointed, some Deputies mentioned to me that he had switched some of the drainage work and the repair of embankments down to Limercick. I replied that that was a natural thing for him to do and asked would he not look after his own constituency. In any case, the banks he was going to have built up were going to reclaim and improve lands that were nearly as good as the land in Meath.
Now we come to coast erosion. I am interested in this from the point of view of County Wexford. Rosslare received a grant from the Board of Works in order to save the strand. I do not find fault with that; it was badly needed and it would have been a terrible state of affairs if a very fine resort like Rosslare had been swept away. There was a great danger of many of the houses being swept into the sea and this was the right thing to do. The Wexford County Council contributed a reasonable sum of money and the Board of Works contributed a substantial amount.
I would suggest to the Parliamentary Secretary that he should cast his eye in the direction of the great strand at Tramore. There has been a breakthrough on the banks and only a few sleepers have been put down and no more. This is not a small strand or a small resort. The strand is three and a half miles long. I should like to know if the Waterford County Council put up a case to the Office of Public Works for doing for Tramore what was done for Rosslare.
There is an increase of £43,600 in the Employment and Emergency Schemes Vote and I wonder will it employ as many people next year, with the 12 per cent increase, as the sum of money we voted last year. This is very important work because it provides employment where work is scarce. I have seen people being rehabilitated, as the saying is, in backward areas where there was no work to be had; when these schemes were brought into the area the people were able to get back on their feet again. It meant that they were taken off assistance and given a full week's pay over a period.
There is a provision for bog development schemes of £155,000, the same as last year. Evidently the Parliamentary Secretary's Office do not think it necessary that we should go on with bog development. There is not a great deal of this development in my constituency but wherever there are bogs, it is important for the people that they should have proper roads into the bogs so that they can get their turf out. More and more people are now cutting their own turf.
I want to make one final point. I have said this on previous occasions on this Estimate and I usually conclude on it. I want to compliment whoever is responsible in the Board of Works in what I might call the buying section, the people who buy the furniture for Government offices. I never knew who these people were but I should like to compliment them on their taste. Down the years they have bought magnificent furniture. It seems to be a tradition in the Office of Public Works and I am glad they have kept up that tradition. It is very nice to go into a Government office and see furniture that has been made in Dublin by craftsmen, great cabinetmakers, and also Donegal carpets.
Not all in Dublin.
I know that; perhaps they are Corkmen or from somewhere else but they are Irishmen. I realised a long time ago that these things did not just happen, that somebody was responsible for putting the furniture there. I never found out who but I want to tell them that if ever we are short of money and put up for sale a lot of the beautiful things we have in Government offices we would make a substantial profit on them.
In fairness to the Parliamentary Secretary, it must be admitted that during his period in charge of the Office of Public Works, he has brought a breath of fresh air into it. I am sure he has received full co-operation from the officials because things seem to be running far more smoothly now than some years ago. It is grand to find that a job is being handled efficiently and that the people in charge of the Board of Works do not consider that they are above the law and should not have to answer questions or letters. At the present time I am very glad to say that, as far as I know, members of the House receive the utmost courtesy from the people working in the offices of the Board of Works, and the Parliamentary Secretary himself, when dealing with such matters, is a model of courtesy and efficiency. When the occasion arises, all of us can be very critical of people who hold such an office and when we find somebody doing the job properly, it is only right we should throw an odd bouquet as well as the showers of brickbats we throw across the House.
I believe the sound system used in the House is a success. I should like to think that I personally do not need it. There are a number of people in this House who can make themselves heard without the assistance of a microphone but it is true that until it was introduced, it was impossible to hear comments particularly from the Government front bench, excluding the Parliamentary Secretary. A number of other Deputies seemed to take delight in making their pronouncements in such a way that nobody except their nearest neighbour could hear them. In addition to that, people who came to the Public Gallery found they were unable to hear anything at all except a low mumble. I have gone up there myself to check and found it was so. Now the merest whisper in the House can be heard all over the place. One drawback is that there is a great deal of noise when files are placed on top of the microphone. That has been done and is still being done. It is rather stupid that people who have achieved the rank of Front Bench members of this House should continue to do it. The backbenchers do not do it and there may be a moral in that somewhere.
As regards the Public Gallery, perhaps the Parliamentary Secretary would look up occasionally and consider whether or not we have reached the time when that grille should be removed. We do not expect anybody to shower objectionable material down on top of us. If practically every other Parliament in the world can get along without a grille, I am sure we can, too. It is not decorative and must look awful to people who come in here only occasionally.
With reference to arterial drainage, the job is being done reasonably well. Every effort is being made to expedite the schemes which are being planned. However, something will have to be done to remedy the irritating matters which have arisen again and again. One is the question of spoil. It is most annoying to somebody who has a small portion of land, particularly along the bank of a river, to find this material interfering with his land. Could the Parliamentary Secretary find out if there is some other way of disposing of this? Surely there are old swamps which are being drained, old quarries, and so on, into which a lot of this could be dumped rather than leaving it spread over the land of some unfortunate person who has very little land.
I have a case in mind of a man who had an acre of good land attached to his garden and well over a rood of it was ruined because this spoil was dumped there. I know the people carrying out the work must carry it out in the most economical way but some consideration should be given to this problem.
Another question to which I should like to refer is that of people who have land on both sides of a stream or river that is being cleaned, deepened or widened. Occasionally people who have land on the far side of the river find that the land is absolutely useless because they cannot get across to it unless an accommodation bridge is provided for them. That is a problem which, with a little thought, could be dealt with fairly easily.
The next matter I wish to raise is one which I mentioned last year. It is a matter which will create a major problem for the counties in which a large amount of arterial drainage is being carried out, that is, the cost of maintenance. There is a lot of unrest, in areas where very necessary arterial drainage work is being carried out or is about to be carried out, in regard to the actual cost of maintenance on the rates when the scheme is finished. Take the Boyne which flows through most of my constituency. There will be a tremendous amount of good done by the drainage of the Boyne and all the other rivers leading into it. Much land which hitherto has been flooded for three or four months of the year will be left in good condition. However, there is no use in telling somebody who lives in Navan town, in Kells or in Trim that a wonderful job will be done in draining somebody's land in some other district. You cannot persuade the people in east Meath it is a grand thing that people in north or south Meath will have their land drained and made useful when these people, according to some of the suggestions, will have to meet a very considerable extra impost on rates.
I am not in a position to judge whether or not the statements made are correct. Perhaps the Parliamentary Secretary will be able to give some rough estimate as to what the average cost of maintenance has been, what is the pattern, if there is a pattern, so that we can have some idea of what it will cost. If it is going to cost an exorbitant amount, is there any hope that the additional expenditure or some of the additional expenditure can be carried by the State? I know the Parliamentary Secretary can say: "The State has already put up £16 million to do the job. Is that not enough?" We are fast reaching the stage in some places where we cannot afford things we need very badly and I should hate to think that situation would be made worse because of the way these things go.
I know the Office of Public Works will do everything they possibly can to help out in this matter but the matter will have to be studied now before it becomes a very real problem, and I understand it is becoming a real problem where I am. There are small portions of rivers drained, only a matter of a few miles, and there is 6d. in the £ collected each year to pay for maintenance. The Boyne runs right through County Meath; the Black-water runs through about a quarter of the county, and the other rivers flow through a big portion of the county. In addition, the Boyne runs through Kildare but the amount of land that it covers in Kildare is relatively small compared with the amount covered in County Meath. Therefore, there is a lot of worry in regard to the situation which may arise. Perhaps the Parliamentary Secretary would alleviate that by making a statement when he is concluding. I want to make it very clear that as far as I am concerned, the sooner the Boyne is done the better. The draining of the Boyne and its tributaries will do a tremendous amount of good.
There are one or two other matters in regard to arterial drainage on which the Parliamentary Secretary might give assistance. One is the bonus scheme which is in operation. I see no reason why that should not be extended. It is unfair that people who are working on the Feale should have to work for pounds less than people who are working on the Broadmeadow or on the Inny. An effort should be made to level it off because word goes round very quickly. The trade union of which I am general secretary receive these complaints from one job to another. The workers say : "Why are we being left in this position while the others are getting more money?"
In view of the fact that the bonus scheme has improved the position as far as the Board of Works is concerned—I understand it has made the job to the Board of Works cheaper— is there any reason why it should not be extended as quickly as possible? I am grateful for the way in which the ninth round increase of 12 per cent has been passed on to the workers in these jobs with effect from 1st February. That has been the general thing and I am glad it has been dealt with so expenditiously. I think a slight mistake has been made in one area, Rosslare. The men employed in Rosslare are working at county council rates and the Wexford County Council paid their increase on 14th January. The Board of Works paid it on 1st February. A slight adjustment should be made there because the Board of Works cannot have it both ways.
If the Government and the Board of Works are not deliberately holding it up, I think, in everybody's interests, the question of the five-day week must come into operation as quickly as possible. I know a major Government decision is required on this. The Government, so far, have held the line that nobody in Government employment except those in the building trade should have the satisfaction of the five-day week. But it is coming. It must come, and an effort should be made to put it into operation in order to do away with the dissatisfaction under the scheme because of the failure of the Government and the Board of Works to operate it. Where a big number of men work together, it causes annoyance, whereas in the case of one or two, the loss sustained would be very small, particularly if the bonus scheme is introduced. I would ask the Parliamentary Secretary to try to have this straightened out as quickly as possible.
With reference to the bog development schemes, one very extraordinary thing happened which I discussed with the Office of Public Works. I want to refer to it briefly now. It is a question of a job which was being done in my constituency in 1961 by a local man whose bog was being drained. The engineer of the county council, who was to supervise the job, and the local contact man both agreed that the amount allocated was far too small, that the job would require double the amount laid down. As a result, the scheme was cancelled. Applications were made on two further occasions and eventually, with the same contact man, the scheme was approved at an amount of money almost up to what was estimated by the engineer, but it turned out that an attempt was made to drain the bog from the opposite direction.
I referred to it at the time as an effort to do what St. Fechin did in County Westmeath—to make water flow up the hill. It drained the bog in this particular case but it did not drain the portion which was originally being drained by the scheme sanctioned in 1961. I do not want to blame anybody on the staff of the Office of Public Works for what has happened but I think their outdoor officer who eventually approved the scheme should have had a longer look at it. Perhaps he had not his level with him or did not see whether the river was flowing east or west. If, in fact, the job which he sanctioned solved the problem, then the whole river would flow up through this man's turf bank. I think a mistake was made and if it could be corrected in the coming year, somebody should have it rectified. The old man was annoyed when he discovered he had spent several years arguing to get work done for somebody else. Perhaps it can be said that it would not come under this Estimate, but it is bog development work and that is why I am raising it.
Over the years more and more of the Special Employment Schemes as applying to the towns have been dropping in employment content. A smart guy in the urban council or town area who wants to get a job done in the town tries to get the Special Employment Schemes to cover the job rather than have it done out of the rates. While that might be an admirable way of having the amenities of towns improved, if the scheme is for the purpose of giving employment, mainly to people who would not otherwise be employed, I think it is unfair that something like 20 or 25 per cent labour content or less should be shoved in to do this work when in fact the labour content should be very much higher.
Occasionally the Office of Public Works have to refer the scheme back and point out that it is not the type of scheme which should qualify. The result is that often coming up to Christmas, I find people coming to me asking whether there is any hope of having the scheme sanctioned before Christmas so that the men can get a few weeks' work. When we check over, we find that the local council has submitted an impossible scheme and the blame is not on the Board of Works, but, in fact, is at local level. I think the Parliamentary Secretary would be well advised if he would, early in the year, check on the proposed winter schemes. He should point out that they should not put in schemes of concrete work, which it is absolutely impossible to carry out in winter.
I am glad to know that the Castle of Trim, with others, is being taken over. Trim is one of those places where there is a tremendous amount of fortifications, castles and old ruins, some of which have been attended to but others which have not. People will say that in 50 years' time, we will not worry about it, but I think they should be looked at now. The Parliamentary Secretary, having made a start with the castle, should recommend that further inspection be carried out in order to see how much of value exists in that area.
Tara was referred to by Deputy T. Lynch. He said Tara was safe. I cannot agree with him. Tara is not safe. The Office of Public Works have authority to acquire it compulsorily and they have in fact a considerable portion of it in their possession. It is true that the person who owns Tara has attempted to sell it. If he wants money, there is no good reason why he should not do so. I think it would be stupid for somebody to offer a fraction of the value of this land. I suggest that somebody who has an idea of the value of this type of land should negotiate with the owner of Tara and try to reach a reasonable price. I am not a friend of his and I can speak freely. I think anyone will find him as reasonable as anyone who owns land and knows the value of it. That should be done. We should not wait for a German or an American to come here and put a tremendous, highly inflated value on Tara before we decide who is to take it over.
Some years ago, there was talk about having a museum built there. Certain arrangements were made and a good deal of money was spent locally but the museum has not been built and there is no question of its being built for a considerable time. Unless somebody who has a businesslike mind takes an interest in Tara now, we will be dickering and dickering, and eventually we will be buying Tara from somebody, not a native of this country, at a much higher figure than has been offered up to now. That is a personal opinion but, as I know the place very well, I thought the opinion should be offered.
People may ask what is in Tara except a couple of fields, a hill, a couple of mounds badly marked, and what attraction is that.
What does one do when more than a reasonable price is offered?
I understand that if the Board of Works want to acquire Tara, there is a system of arbitration which can be used. I suggest it should be used as quickly as possible, that we should not wait until three or four times the value has been offered. If somebody comes there from another land, as many of us are expecting will happen, and realises that Tara is the site of one of the most ancient seats of government in the world, and puts up there a replica of some sort of what Tara was supposed to have been like thousands of years ago, the result will be that the Parliamentary Secretary or the Government will not have enough money to buy it.
There is not the slightest fear of anything like that happening.
I wish I could be as sure of it as the Parliamentary Secretary and Deputy T. Lynch are. I sincerely believe that something like that is likely to happen in the not too distant future. However, I do not want to hold up the House discussing Tara. Something should be done about it. The newspaper scare headlines should not be allowed to give the impression that there is something going on that is just not right. If the person who owns Tara thinks he can sell it and get a price for it, we cannot say that he should not do it but an effort should be made by the State to acquire it. It will have to be done eventually. There was a development committee there at one time but there does not seem to have been much development carried out as a result of their activities. Perhaps they did the best they could.
The Parliamentary Secretary referred to coast erosion. Perhaps he can let us know whether or not there is at present a number of proposals from local authorities before the Office of Public Works.
Not many.
I should like to know the number.
Eight in Cork and two outside that.
I would expect that. Could the Parliamentary Secretary say whether or not there will be a difficulty about engineering staff when the question of examination of these works arises? If that is so, we should now make provision for staff rather than wait until all the works come in because when the matter becomes a live issue, as it will before very long, there will be no point in the Parliamentary Secretary coming in here and saying that the Office of Public Works are doing the best they can but that they cannot get engineers. It will be just too bad if that stage is reached.
An excellent effort is being made with regard to the erection of schools. I asked a question of a Minister last week and made a comment at the end of it which was a slur not on the work of the Parliamentary Secretary, but on the system. It was a case where repairs had been carried out and an addition had been made to a school. The work was completed but for one hour's painting work. For three long months, that school was left in that condition. Some of the children were attending an old broken-down school which had been closed the year before. Other children were attending the newly-repaired school while workmen's material was scattered around the place. The fact that the work could have been finished was proven because when I put down a question on Friday, the job was finished and the children were attending the school by the following Thursday.
Keep putting down questions.
Thank You.
If the Deputy were to put a question down to the Minister for Transport and Power, the school would fall down.
That is an example of what is happening. If I took the Parliamentary Secretary up correctly, I do not think it is a good idea that the contracts for school building should be grouped. I think what the Parliamentary Secretary had in mind is that where there are 40 or 50 schools to be erected, contractors would be invited to tender for that number.
Well, maybe 20.
Does the Parliamentary Secretary realise the effect that will have?
At the same time, contractors can tender for individual schools. You get a global figure of 20. A man might not take on 20. He might not be big enough. We can also get tenders for each individual school.
I am sure the Parliamentary Secretary will realise that if there are 20 schools being built and there is a global tender for 20 schools by one of the bigger contractors, he may cut the price because of the fact that he is doing a big job and can handle it in a certain way. The smaller contractor can be completely cut out. In addition, the big contractor who will be carrying out all the jobs may find, as many of them who are carrying out housing schemes at present find, that he has so much on hand that he is unable to carry it out and, after six months or 12 months he may say that he is terribly sorry, that he is unable to complete the work in the time and ask for an extension of the time. I should not like to see the smaller contractor, who is doing such good work in the erection of schools, cut out by this system of asking the big contractors to carry out a group scheme. The smaller man would be cut out and he is giving very good employment.
He might not be cut out because we pay every month and he can get credit from the merchants for three to six months. The small man has just as good a chance in this matter as the big contractor.
Except that the smaller man may not be able to compete as far as prices are concerned. It may mean that schools will be built at less cost. However, we will see what the position is next year.
The underlying idea is speed and a certain amount of saving but, particularly, the speed of erection.
I believe it will have the opposite effect. However, the Parliamentary Secretary has a better idea of what is happening than I have.
There is another matter that may have nothing to do with the Parliamentary Secretary but which perhaps he would discuss with his colleague the Minister for Education. Time and again, when new schools have been built, within a period of two or three years it is found that they are not big enough to house the number of children attending them and additions have to be made or new schools have to be built. Is there any possibility that, for the little extra cost, a bigger school can be erected where the population trends would suggest that a bigger school should be provided?
At present there are a number of schools, even in my constituency, to which additions have had to be made. The one I referred to a few minutes ago is an example, where an addition had to be made. There are cases where additional schools have had to be built after two or three years because the schools originally provided were not big enough to house the children attending them. I know that it is difficult to gauge population trends but it does seem rather ridiculous that within three or four years of a school being built the necessity should arise for a bigger school. The cost would be much less if proper steps were taken initially to cater for the probable school-going population.
The Parliamentary Secretary referred to the provision of water and sewerage facilities in as many schools as possible. In this respect he might go ahead of the ordinary proposals. Where a school has been condemned or it is expected it will be replaced, is there any way in which the gun can be jumped and some type of water and sewerage facilities provided for that old school? It is a shocking state of affairs that so many schools have no sanitation. There may be 40, 50 or 100 children attending that school for the next five to ten years. In such circumstances, the Parliamentary Secretary would be well advised to have water and sewerage laid on, from a health point of view, apart from anything else.
Reference was made to the provision of houses for the Garda. I have an idea about this which may not coincide with the ideas other people may have on the subject. In country districts where houses are being built for the Garda, I suggest that they should not be built beside the barracks but should be sited in outlying centres of population. The Parliamentary Secretary will appreciate my reason for making the suggestion. If adopted, there would be perhaps less of the teddyboy type of hooliganism which, unfortunately, breaks out from time to time in country districts, even in the best regulated towns and villages. These things do happen and the presence of a guard in the district has an amazing effect. If that idea were followed up, it might solve the problem.
The Parliamentary Secretary says that no final decision has been made on the design of the Garden of Remembrance. If that is the case, it looks to me as if we will not be able to open it for the next couple of years. When the final decision regarding the design has been taken, that decision has to be put into effect. I know the work is being rushed ahead. You got a little assistance from a lorry last week and more of it fell than should have fallen. Something worse might happen if the work is not completed quickly.
The work done under the Special Employment Schemes and the Rural Improvement Schemes is generally carried out by county council workers. When they are employed on that work, for some extraordinary reason, the workers who have been working a 45 hour, five day week for the council find themselves working a 5½ day, 48 hour week for the Office of Public Works. That is difficult to explain to people who are working under the same supervision and doing the same type of work. They do not understand why they should have to work on Saturday morning. Some people may consider that this is a matter which is not worth raising here but it affects every county in the country and we have complaints from all over about it. The good offices of the Parliamentary Secretary might be used to see that this practice comes to an end before the end of the present season.
Let me say that the Office of Public Works has taken a great turn for the better over the past few years. The influence of the Parliamentary Secretary on that Office is quite evident to everyone. There is a number of matters that we can still talk about. We can object to this, that and the other thing but it is good to see so many things being done so much better now than they were a few years ago.
Reference has been made by Deputy T. Lynch to the Press facilities in this House. I was glad to understand that the Parliamentary Secretary is making arrangements to improve these facilities but would it be too much to ask him that a certain amount of priority should be given to this work? I know that when the Dáil is in recess, the major proportion of the work here as far as the Pressmen are concerned has been done but it is ridiculous that any group of people should be asked to work here under conditions such as those under which they have had to work. If my information is correct, these conditions have not improved very much over the past 40 years. Recently there was a room available downstairs which was offered to them and I know that if such a room was offered to the Pressmen of any other nation, a very strong reply would be given.
They will get priority on this job. The sooner we adjourn here the quicker.
I take the point. If the Parliamentary Secretary would whisper to his colleagues to answer our questions here at the first go-off so that we will not have to ask half a dozen supplementaries we might adjourn very early.
Like the two Deputies who have spoken from the Opposition benches I wish to congratulate the Parliamentary Secretary and his staff on the efficient report they have presented here. The Parliamentary Secretary's Office deals with minor employment schemes, rural improvement schemes and bog drainage schemes and I was wondering if all the Gaeltacht schemes could not be put in the hands of the local authorities. The local authorities have the machinery to do these schemes and if they were asked they would be quick to take them over.
We in County Galway get a fairly substantial sum under the bog development scheme but it is mostly spent in the eastern part of the county and we in the west are left lagging behind in that respect. The majority of the turbary rights in the west have been cut almost to rock bottom. Now the tenants have to move further afield to get sufficient turbary for the heating of their homes in the winter. There are great stretches of turbary nearer to the villages than where they now have to go, which could be used if they were properly drained.
There is a certain amount of delay in the inspection of rural improvement schemes. I know there is a big waiting list but the work could be stepped up by the use of more inspection staff. I was sorry to hear that one of the engineers died last week while he was actually on his way to an inspection in my county.
Slips and piers are something we need very much in the west and the work on them needs to be stepped up. In the past three or four years, the use of these slips and piers for the landing of boats has increased considerably. With the seaweed factories now in the west, people are going out to cut seaweed and they find it difficult to get suitable landing places. There are old slips and piers in existence and it would not cost a very large sum of money to put some of them in a condition in which they could be used for landing seaweed. The small farmers in the west also cut seaweed and use it as manure and they also use the slips.
When the Board of Works people go to inspect these places, they insist on quite impossible standards. We have cases where applications are made and the Department of the Gaeltacht are prepared to give a certain sum, but if it goes beyond that figure the application must be submitted to other Departments—Agriculture and Fisheries. I submit that those two Departments should get in at the start in the matter of pier erection where the estimated cost of the pier is more than that which the Department of the Gaeltacht are prepared to meet.
On the question of new schools, I suggest there should be a standard plan to avoid the delays which occur at the moment. The manager is asked for a certain sum and when that is forthcoming there should be nothing to prevent the immediate advertisement for tenders. The advertisement should be issued within at least six weeks after the manager has intimated the money will be forthcoming. The Parliamentary Secretary should take action to see that these delays are avoided wherever possible.
I should like both in the House and outside it to congratulate the Parliamentary Secretary and his engineers for the final clearing up of the drainage works undertaken in the Killanin, Moycullen and Collanamuck districts. I should like to thank the Parliamentary Secretary most sincerely because he has relieved the lot of several farmers and has added considerably to their acreage. They are more than grateful to him for it.
When I read the special expenditure contemplated on public buildings, typical of which is the estimate under Subhead B—works, alterations and additions—of £1,788,000 for the new headquarters of the Department of Social Welfare in Dublin, it struck me as a strange anachronism that we should be preparing to appropriate £1,788,000 for a new headquarters for that Department, while at the same time the houses are falling down on the people's heads in Dublin and their families are being put into institutions because there are no houses for them to live in.
We have put down a motion to refer the Vote back, which rather widens the scope of the discussion. It brings into our purview the general consideration of policy relating to the outlet of money under this Vote. It seems a shocking thing that a Government who have so signally failed to meet the housing shortage in Dublin and in other towns and cities throughout the country should be boasting of the vast sums they have available to build public buildings of one kind or another at a time when we are sending families into institutions because their houses are falling down and there are no houses available to put them into.
The Parliamentary Secretary has no responsibility.
It is the responsibility of the Government of which he is a member. I comment on it because I think it is a grave reflection on the whole approach to this question. The Government should be marshalling the resources of the State for the advantage of our people.
The Parliamentary Secretary, dealing with erection of schools, commented on the difficulty of providing water and sewerage in some schools he proposes to erect. I invite him to consult with the Minister for Education with a view to further investigating the question of whether, in consultation with the parochial or diocesan manager, this difficulty could not be overcome in certain areas where the clerical manager would be prepared to contemplate a new departure.
The circumstances in which the Parliamentary Secretary finds difficulty are mainly, I imagine, in respect of relatively remote, small schools and perhaps one or two relatively substantial schools. If the Parliamentary Secretary and the Minister for Education got together it would be possible for them in some such cases to find agreement for a plan not to replace the small school but rather to build one good central parochial school and provide a transport system to bring the children to the school in the morning.
I realise this could only be done on the initiative of the Minister for Education, but if the Parliamentary Secretary is finding the difficulty to which he refers, the readiest solution is the one I have proposed. He would require the consent of the Minister for Education and of the diocesan authority and I believe in some areas at least that consent would be available.
Such a solution of the problem would not only remove the Parliamentary Secretary's difficulty but would confer a very material benefit on the parish, first, because there would be a fine modern school with all amenities, which would be permissive when one had the larger attendance which a central parochial school would provide; secondly, you would not have your teachers scattered all over in remote schools because you would have a group of perhaps eight or ten teachers assembled in one academic centre; and thirdly, such a substantial unit would provide the ground on which you could build to provide secondary and technical schools, thus building up a valuable academic centre in the parish to the advantage of everyone concerned.
In this country we regard as an insuperable problem the provision of transport for school children. Anybody who has lived abroad knows that throughout rural America the system has been in operation for 40 years. All it involves is the gathering of the children at appropriate spots, the sites of the old abandoned schools, and drawing them thence into the central school in the morning and back to the sites of the old schools in the evening to make their own way home from where the old schools used to be. I suggest to the Parliamentary Secretary that, in a situation in which he finds these problems confronting him, he should take counsel with the Minister for Education to find out if a solution to some, at least, of these problems might not be found on the lines I have mentioned.
I am glad to read that the preparation of plans for the erection of a preventive centre at Finglas is well advanced, and even more pleased to learn that construction work will commence this year. I notice, however, there are the rather alarming words "It is hoped". I have been agitating for proper accommodation of this kind for many, many years. I understand that the Dublin Preventive Centre is to take the place of what used to be Summerhill detention centre, which was subsequently transferred to another premises, and is now to go to Finglas.
I sincerely hope that, when these premises are made available, the Government will take action to ensure that they are properly staffed. It would be a tragic thing if we built a relatively satisfactory premises for this purpose and allowed it to be staffed on gravely inadequate standards, the type of standards on which it has been staffed heretofore. However, I recognise this as a matter to be taken up more reasonably with the Minister for Education on his Vote as I believe the maintenance and staffing of this centre are his responsibility. I welcome the transfer from the present premises to something that will be more satisfactory and I shall take up the question of proper staffing with the Minister for Education in due course.
I learn, with regret, from the Parliamentary Secretary that, having considered the proposal for a special independent body to deal comprehensively with monuments, he thought it better to defer the idea for the time being. I heard general approbation of the proposal to set up such a body. Is there any particular reason why the matter is being deferred for the time being?
There is, of course, yes.
Is the Parliamentary Secretary free to tell us why in greater detail? Is it that he is reconsidering the personnel of the commission, or something of that kind?
No.
Or is it that the whole thing has dropped?
No.
Perhaps the Parliamentary Secretary would tell us something more because——
I will refer to the matter when I come to reply.
——it would be in the public interest to know why the matter is being deferred. It seemed to me to be a good idea and a departure on the right lines in that it proposed to set up an independent body which would concern itself to serve areas of activity, which it could draw to the attention of the Board of Works and, in a sympathetic and co-operative way, work with the Board of Works to see that that which was necessary would be done as soon as opportunity offered.
I am glad that the Parliamentary Secretary has at last awakened to the fact that without aerial photography archaeological survey in this day and age is virtually impossible. I note with great satisfaction that Dr. St. Joseph of Cambridge University has made a partial survey aerially of selective sites. I also notice that the Parliamentary Secretary says he has discovered that aerial survey is of great assistance for drainage survey work and that the Air Corps is providing this service.
I suggest to the Parliamentary Secretary that this piecemeal approach to this problem is really inadequate. On many occasions I have suggested that we should undertake, either through the Air Force or through another agency that it may prove advantageous to employ, a complete aerial survey of the country. I have repeatedly pointed out here that such an aerial survey would be most valuable from the archaeological point of view, that it would be most valuable from the arterial drainage point of view, and also most valuable from the point of view of the work being done by Foras Talúntais for the general survey of the land at large.
We are now doing this work in bits and pieces for the archaeological division of the Board of Works. We are doing it in bits and pieces for the arterial drainage section of the Board of Works. I put it to the Parliamentary Secretary that, if he would consult with the Minister for Agriculture and, possibly, the Minister for Posts and Telegraphs, to whom these surveys might be of considerable value, and the Department of Lands, he would discover that the needs of all these Departments put together would abundantly justify a complete aerial survey being made.
One of the problems of these aerial surveys is that they must be done in winter because they must be done when the leaves are off the trees; otherwise, much of the survey is lost through deciduous trees obscuring the land under them. Therefore, there is a restricted period in which the survey can be done satisfactorily because, in our winter conditions, very frequently atmospheric conditions do not permit of a survey being made. Not only have you to do the survey in winter but you have to choose the type of weather.
I suggest to the Parliamentary Secretary that, instead of doing it in bits and pieces, he should get authority to do the whole job. I do not believe it would cost much more than the piecemeal approach and, once done, it would be a record of incalculable value. I acknowledge that, in trying to fix a survey to meet the requirements of a variety of Departments, you may run up against the difficulty that one Department may want the survey done from one height and another would prefer to have it done from a different height; but I believe these requirements could be substantially reconciled and, in any case, a complete aerial survey would enable the Parliamentary Secretary to pinpoint those areas requiring closer survey for specific purposes, whether archaeological or arterial drainage, and these could be undertaken on an ad hoc basis.
I want to urge on the Parliamentary Secretary that, in the absence of such a complete survey as I suggest to him, a vast treasure of archaeological remains may be lost because I am informed by those competent to speak that Ireland, owing to its peculiar history, is probably one of the richest archaeological laboratories in the world. We escaped the Roman invasion and there survive here archaeological remains which I understand are of incomparable value. The tragedy is that, without aerial survey, many of them exist unknown to anybody. I do not know if the Parliamentary Secretary has had brought to his attention the survey that was made of Cruachan in County Roscommon, but I have already directed his attention to the fact that on that site the peripatetic survey revealed five archaeological sites while the aerial survey turned up nearly 50, the existence of which was quite unknown to anybody until that survey was made. I believe a similar experience would be had in many other parts of the country, but it will not be available unless the general survey is made, and the awful danger is that, with the passing of every year, many of these sites are being irrevocably destroyed and obliterated.
Progress reported; Committee to sit again.