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Dáil Éireann debate -
Wednesday, 1 Jul 1964

Vol. 211 No. 8

Committee on Finance. - Vote 3—Department of the Taoiseach.

I move:

That a sum not exceeding £24,500 be granted to complete the sum necessary to defray the charge which will come in course of payment during the year ending on the 31st day of March, 1965, for the Salaries and Expenses of the Department of the Taoiseach.

The second volume on the Programme for Economic Expansion will be presented to the Dáil on Friday and published on Saturday morning. It will set out in detail the basis on which the development targets to the end of the present decade have been settled and the measures proposed by the Government for the realisation of those targets. We are entering on the beginning of the Second Programme with the national economy in better shape than ever before.

In 1963, the volume of national production rose by 4.2 per cent. The rate of expansion during the present year so far is such that, if it is maintained, and there is no reason in sight why it should not be, the average annual growth rate which was realised during the First Programme and envisaged during the Second Programme will, so far as 1964 is concerned, be surpassed. During the first quarter of this year industrial output was up by 11 per cent on the first quarter of last year and, while figures for the second quarter are not yet available, all the signs are that expansion is being maintained. Employment is increasing in industry, in the service trades, and in building and construction. In 1963, industrial employment rose by 5,500 and, in the first quarter of 1964, an increase of 8,000 was recorded. The numbers on the unemployment register have been running since the beginning of the year significantly below those of the corresponding weeks of last year. Livestock prices are good and farm incomes are rising.

There has been a spectacular increase in exports both industrial and agricultural. During the first five months of this year, our exports rose by 20 per cent over last year. While imports have also increased, there is a significant change taking place in the character of those imports. As compared with pre-war, consumption goods are 33? per cent less and producers' capital goods and materials for industry and agriculture are twice the pre-war percentage. These changes reflect the development of the national economy in the intervening years and are in some respects a measure of our progress.

The external trade gap is tending to widen, but, as the Central Bank point out in their report published this morning, there is as yet no cause for anxiety on this account because our external reserves are increasing rather than contracting. The external reserves of the banking system and departmental funds rose in 1963 by just under £3 millions. In May of 1964, these external reserves were £6.3 millions more than in May of 1963. The Government are constantly on the alert for warning signs but none has yet appeared which would suggest the desirability of any slackening of our development effort, an effort which has been pushed on as rapidly as our resources of finance and organisation permit.

It is customary for the Taoiseach in this debate to give a general review of recent national development progress, and prospects for the immediate future. On this occasion, on the eve of the publication of the details of the Second Programme for Economic Expansion, which will set out all the relevant facts as well as our objectives and our programme, I propose to make a fairly comprehensive statement defining the policy of the Government on many matters of major importance so that Deputies will understand not only what we aim to do but the ideas and the ideals which guide us. All the desirable readjustments of the alignment of our policy have been made and the road is now straight ahead without deviation to the right or to the left. The statement which I am about to make may be a little longer than is customary with me but I hope to make it factual enough and controversial enough to retain the interest of the Dáil.

During the First Programme, industrial production rose by 42 per cent in volume or an average annual increase of 7.2 per cent. Industrial exports increased by 90 per cent in value. Industrial productivity increased on average by 4.7 per cent per year and industrial employment by 2.4 per cent per year. This is a success story, a story we can recount with some pride and one which enables us to face the fulfilment of the industrial targets of the Second Programme with considerable confidence. The volume of output of manufacturing industries was 6½ per cent higher in 1963 than in 1962. This was a higher rate of increase than the 1962 figure of 5.6 per cent. Industrial expansion gained momentum during the course of 1963. In the second part of that year, manufacturing output was running at a level of 8 per cent higher than in the corresponding period in 1962 and, as I mentioned, the stepping up of the rate of expansion has continued into the current year.

We are basing the Second Programme on the expectation that this rate of expansion can, taking one year with another, be maintained although we are far from wanting to suggest that it will be easy. This expectation, which is supported by the experience of industrial growth in the first half of this year, is being reinforced by detailed examinations of the position and prospects in each industrial group in discussion with the representatives of these groups, and, where appropriate with individual firms, together with a study by the National Industrial Economic Council of the Industrial targets which have been set. Programming is, of course, a flexible process. It is intended that there will be a continuing review of the performance of each industry to assist in the elimination of any obstacles to expansion and, where necessary, to make an adjustment of the target for it.

The industrial targets which have been set are based also on the expectation that the movement towards freer international trade will continue. It is clear that the reduction of industrial protection already brought about has produced no general adverse effects This process of tariff reduction will be continued by a further ten per cent cut across the board on 1st January, 1965. Further policy on industrial protection will be determined in the light of developments in regard to our membership of international trade blocs as well as by the necessity to maintain the maximum stimulus to industrial readaptation and to the achievement of higher levels of efficiency and competitiveness.

Policy in this regard will continue to be determined by the expectation of Common Market membership by 1970, with perhaps only a very short transitional period, if any, before the full obligations of the Treaty of Rome must be accepted. The measures of adaptation, reorganisation and re-equipment which are necessary to enable industry to meet the changes in the home and export markets resulting from freer trade must be pressed with all urgency. It is fortunate that there is no process of reorganisation in industry which is made necessary by this prospect which is not worth taking in any circumstance. Whatever the future may hold, we will have a better and a stronger industrial organisation as a result of these measures.

The expected continuing expansion of industrial and agricultural output involves consideration of the consequential developments involved—in transport of all kinds, in power production and in all other spheres. Transport policy has recently been the subject of Dáil discussion and it is unnecessary to refer to it again. The rate of growth of demand for electricity is expected to continue at nine per cent per annum. To meet this the ESB will have, by 1970, more than doubled its 1960 generating capacity, involving additional capital investment —including rural electrification—of £84 million. I should say, however, that the rate of growth of electricity usage in rural areas has been disappointing. In view of the advantages in living conditions and farm efficiency which the greater utilisation of electricity can give, I would urge all organisations which are interested in rural improvements to join with the ESB in encouraging its greater use for all purposes in the home and in the farmyard. The rural electrification scheme was one of the measures adopted by the Government to improve the amenities of rural life as well as to lighten the burden of farm work and our aim will not be fully achieved until it is much more widely utilised than at present. It was for this social purpose that we decided to subsidise it initially and decided again to restore the subsidy after the Coalition Government had so short-sightedly abolished it.

By 1970 all the bogs suitable for development by the present Bord na Móna methods will be in full production and the present development programme of the Board will have been completed. The growth in the consumption of petroleum products indicates that by 1970 a further expansion of refining capacity will be needed. I have recently re-stated the policy of the Government regarding the emphasis placed on private enterprise in bringing about the maximum possible rate of expansion. It is expected, however, that the further enlargement of the role of the State in the industrial field will also be advantageous and some proposals are under examination involving the extension of activities of existing State financed organisations either directly or in partnership with private firms. The encouragement, and indeed the exhortations, in the First Programme, to all these State organisations to consider possibilities of widening the scope of their activities in areas unrelated to their present operations, did not produce a very positive response, except from the Irish Sugar Company, and it may be that the Government will have to take more direct measures to ensure that possibilities of this kind are more thoroughly explored.

Development by private enterprise, if it is to take place on the scale we need, requires a climate of good will, particularly where external participation in new industrial projects is essential for their establishment or their success. This makes all the more deplorable the revival of Fine Gael's predisposition, under Deputy Dillon's leadership, to initiate smear campaigns against some new industrial concerns, most recently in connection with the Cork Verolme Dockyard. These irresponsible statements unfortunately received some publicity abroad and it is not yet possible to assess the damage they may have done. So far as the Government are concerned, we see the Verolme enterprise in Cork as typical of the type of industrial organisation we wish to have established here, an enterprise which involves substantial employment for adult male labour and producing for export.

We recognise that in many cases, as in the instance of the Cork Dockyard, exceptional problems are involved in the training of Irish labour and the speedy achievement of an international level of competitiveness. I think the Verolme concern have done a wonderful job in bringing their Irish workers up to their present degree of competency. I wish to make this widely known—as widely known as I can—that for enterprises of the character and scale of the Cork Dockyard, facing similar problems of development, it is the policy of this Government to afford practical and financial help in their initial stages and on a scale not less generous than that given to the dockyard.

We cannot expect, in the circumstances of this country, to achieve the rate of industrial progress we need by less generous methods. In the early days of our industrial revival, this practice of initiating personal attacks and smear campaigns against everybody who set up a new industrial enterprise in Ireland was characteristic of Fine Gael. It did not succeed in stopping industrial growth then, although it may have slowed it down, and this reversion to type, this anti-national and nihilistic attitude——

What about the three white elephants?

——seems strange in view of the Fine Gael highly publicised efforts to find a new policy. If this is their new policy—and there is nothing very new about it—the sooner they relapse into their previous vagueness, the better for the country and its development.

What about the white elephants? The Taoiseach is not at a cross roads in Roscommon now.

As a source of national wealth and employment, the building and construction industry is of major importance. It employs about 70,000 workers. The Second Programme envisages an annual increase of seven per cent in the industry's output. A large part of the capital for financing building and construction comes from the public capital programme. In the present year, it is anticipated that £20.7 millions will be expended on housing, sanitary and ancillary services and over £6 millions on schools and hospitals and it is expected that capital outlay for these purposes will rise steadily to about £37 millions in the year 1969-70. To a very great extent the level of activity in building and construction depends on Government policy and it is our policy to keep it expanding.

A very substantial and continuing programme is required for housing, to repair and replace unfit dwellings and to build new houses due to the expected increase in the population and the growth in industrial activities in new centres. Even when the present backlog of defective housing is wiped out, as we intend, and when all families have well-built, secure and adequate dwellings, the housing programme will go on, and it is estimated that about 7,000 houses will become obsolete in each year in perpetuity and require replacement or reconstruction. The expectation of a rising population creates new housing needs. When arrears of housing have disappeared, we will be able to contemplate improved housing standards. 7,500 new dwellings were completed in 1963-64 by local authorities and by private builders and some 13,000 houses were reconstructed, enlarged and modernised.

The disruption of the building programme and the dispersal of skilled workers which followed the slump of 1956 under the Coalition Government has now been fully rectified. It is necessary, however, to envisage doubling the annual rate of new housing output over a number of years. The Second Programme assumes an annual output of 14,000 new dwellings by 1970. A White Paper detailing the Government's housing policy will be issued soon by the Minister for Local Government and a new and comprehensive housing Bill will be before the Dáil in the next session.

Government policy favours the provision of housing for owner-occupation. While local authorities will continue to provide houses for renting, tenant purchase will be encouraged. The social advantage of having a high proportion of families owning their own houses will hardly be disputed. Apart from housing needs, a large programme of commercial construction is in prospect and there are enormous tasks yet to be faced in the renewal of the central areas in our cities and towns which are now utilised far below their full economic value. To secure the programmed rate of expansion of output, it is necessary to consider every possible device for improving productivity in the building industry. The Irish National Productivity Committee, the Institute of Industrial Research and Standards and the Building Advisory Council are all examining various aspects of this problem and the new Institute for Physical Planning and Construction Research will concentrate on urgent practical problems and provide training and information services.

In building, even more urgently than in other economic activities, new techniques and more economical methods are needed if the Government's construction programme is to be fulfilled. We should not allow any conservative attitudes to hold up the fulfilment of our programme. It is now possible to give to all concerned in the building industry, and particularly to the tradesmen and workmen employed in it, an assurance of a continued high and rising level of activity. This assurance should help in securing the uninhibited acceptance of new methods of construction. It is the Government's intention that the era of booms and recessions which characterised the building and construction industry in previous years will be ended. We have the resources and the organisation to achieve all the aims of Government policy in this respect.

Knowledge of these plans for building and construction is of importance not only to building contractors but also to industrial firms engaged in the production of building materials. Already plans for a considerable expansion of cement manufacture have been announced and in all industries supplying building materials there is a high and rising level of activity. The programmed expansion of house-building is also of interest to manufacturers of furniture and other producers of household goods. The family which acquires a new dwelling is motivated by the desire to furnish it better and this stimulates trade in all forms of household articles. The Government can assist all firms producing or trading in these goods, by affording them the most precise information of our development plans, and this is being done in the Second Programme. The Building Advisory Council, and other bodies associated with the industry, will maintain a continuous review of building projects so that all sections of the industry can plan their development ahead in a manner which has not heretofore been possible.

With the success of our industrial policy to date and the expectation of continuing industrial growth we are experiencing the need for the development of a manpower policy, involving measures to eliminate imperfections in our present system of recruiting workers for employment, including greater stastical knowledge of labour availability, generally and in particular areas; the extension and improvement of the employment exchange service and of vocational guidance facilities; measures to increase labour mobility as between occupations as well as geographically, including the retraining of workers where necessary and help to workers to move to new areas, and measures to deal with seasonal fluctuation and regional problems. Some reallocation of responsibilities between Government Departments may be involved and is under consideration.

The need for a manpower policy is emphasised by changes which are likely to take place as a normal feature of development in the distribution of employment in the various sectors of activity, the anticipated consequences of free trade, the increasing pace of technological change and the need to elevate the levels of technical skills, and to provide advance training in anticipation of new industries. While the basic aim must be wherever possible to bring work to the workers, our progress to full employment can be helped by a greater degree of adaptability and geographical mobility of workers. These matters are under active consideration arising out of reports from an inter-departmental committee which made recommendations on retraining and resettlement facilities and other inquiries. During the present month the matter will be under consideration by the National Industrial Economic Council which we think should have a co-ordinating role in this matter.

Government policy must be consistently directed to helping workers to use their abilities to the best advantage of themselves and of the nation. The most immediate problem, however, is to provide adequate means of dealing with any disturbance of employment resulting from industrial adaptation or technological change. Our arrangements must be such as to give reasonable protection to individual workers against the possibility of hardship arising out of industrial changes.

In this connection, it will be remembered that the Committee on Industrial Organisation recommended consideration of the desirability of providing major industrial development centres, and industrial estates, and concentrating industrial expansion in them. The Government have postponed taking a decision on this recommendation pending the outcome of a further investigation which is now in progress of the social and other implications of it. When our inquiries have been completed, the Government's policy will be made known and in the meantime an active discussion of this aspect of industrial development will help to inform public opinion about it.

I intend now to make a reference to the subject of prices. The 4 per cent rise in the general price level consequent on the ninth round of wage and salary increases was about what was expected and what I ventured at the time to forecast, although it is to be noted that about ¾ per cent of the increase is attributable to higher meat prices following on a rise in prices in world markets which was not anticipated. The effect of higher wages and Budget changes in taxation on prices is now fully effective. No further increase is to be expected. Subject to possible variations in the prices of imported materials, a period of relative price stability is to be anticipated.

Once again we have as a nation learned that we cannot pay ourselves in terms of money, either in the form of higher wages and salaries or higher expenditure on Government services, greater increases of income than the higher national income will support without affecting the value of our money. When the national wage agreement was being negotiated I expressed the view that an overall increase of 8 per cent or 9 per cent would be fully justified by rising national production. I knew better than most the difficulties facing the negotiators of the agreement. I agreed that an increase somewhat greater than economic considerations and calculations might suggest would be worth conceding for the sake of a national agreement.

The 12 per cent wage and salary agreement when negotiated was accepted by the Government and fully implemented in all the public services and by all the State-sponsored organisations. I feel constrained to say, however, that if a national agreement for an overall income increase of 8 per cent or 9 per cent had been possible, wage and salary earners would probably be just as well off in terms of the buying power of their earnings as they have in fact become. I hope this repeated experience will have its effect in future years.

The fact that all round wage and salary increases are being paid in advance of the higher production needed to sustain them may create some difficulties in this year. But it now seems that the difficulties may not prove to be as serious in regard to employment and exports as may at first have been feared. The substantial increase in industrial exports in recent months is a most encouraging development. The widening of the country's external payments deficit in this year is to be expected, which we can and must try to recover next year without having recourse to restrictions which would slow down our rate of development or the increase in employment. The warning in this regard expressed by the Central Bank in its recent annual report is both necessary and timely.

The main task now is to step up productivity, that is to say, the output per worker employed, to an extent that will give permanent support to these higher wages. Because of the continuing rise in industrial output that is being achieved, a 7 per cent increase in productivity has already been recorded this year, although it is to be appreciated that an overall productivity calculation of this kind can be illusory and conceal less satisfactory conditions in particular industries. It is however an indication that our policy is working out on the general lines we envisaged. We may hope to be able to have another general upward adjustment of wages and incomes, even if less than the 12 per cent of the ninth round, without undue difficulty in respect of output or exports or employment when the present national agreement has run its course.

It is, however, of vital importance to the success of the whole national development effort and to the expansion of employment that all who have the power to influence thought and action in this sphere should help in getting an understanding that we have by the 12 per cent increase of the national wage agreement gone to the very limits of possibility of improving general living standards until national production has not merely caught up again but gone ahead. There are inexorable economic laws which exact severe penalties from any nation which disregards them, and this nation is not exempt from them. Some effort is being made by people who like to suggest there is an easy answer to every problem to propagate the idea that the effect on prices of higher wages not offset by higher productivity can be cancelled out by the introduction of a rigid system of price control. That is one of the shibboleths of the Labour Party. I have more experience than most people of operating price controls. I know that, while they are unavoidable in times of artificial scarcity, they tend in all other circumstances to keep prices up rather than bring them down. In countries where price controls are now operated they are associated with policies of wage control, as in France. Indeed they must always be ineffective unless all factors affecting prices, particularly wages, are also made subject to control.

The view of the Government is that a comprehensive and detailed system of price control is neither practical nor desirable. We believe competition is the most effective regulator of prices and that Government action should be constantly directed to ensuring that competition is effective. Reliance on the effective force of competition rather than on ineffective Government regulations does not mean that the Government are indifferent to the movement of prices. Indeed, we are examining the possibility of improving the machinery by which the Government are informed about price and cost developments.

We want it to be known widely by producers and traders that the Government, and ultimately public opinion, is very interested in their behaviour in respect of prices and that ad hoc measures will be taken to deal with any situation which requires it. Whenever arrangements which appear to be restrictive of competition come into operation the Fair Trade Commission will act at once to investigate them and have them declared illegal if they are deemed to be detrimental to the public interest. If, as I have already assumed, a period of relative stability is now to be anticipated in respect of incomes and prices, it will be of very great help in enabling development plans to be pushed ahead with all possible speed. This is the most important aim for all sections of the community at this time.

I propose to review the position regarding agriculture. In this volume relating to the Second Programme which will be published on Saturday there will be a chapter in which the general prospects for agricultural trade in the years ahead are analysed. It must be said that up to now international efforts to moderate protection and support policies for agriculture in the highly industrialised countries have not yet been very successful. This is a very serious matter for this country which is so heavily dependent on agricultural exports. Our support for all international efforts to secure a more orderly system of trading in farm products will be given automatically. The GATT made an abortive attempt to secure this in 1961. The prospects for agreement relating to agricultural trade during the Kennedy Round talks are still very uncertain. The European Economic Community have made substantial progress in establishing a common agricultural policy and for the eventual creation of a single market with uniform prices, free internal competition and a common policy towards other countries. The only major difficulty yet to be surmounted by the EEC relates to cereals.

The agricultural policy of the British Government, in which we have a large interest, is being reconstituted on the basis of sharing the British market at the present level of supplies between their home producers and other suppliers. This involves import controls, which are now operating for butter, bacon and cereals. While this system promises better prices and more stability, it tends, as the Minister for Agriculture pointed out in his Estimate speech, to freeze the market pattern and to limit the possibility of trade expansion.

We have had discussions with the British Government on the possibilities of a closer harmonisation of our agricultural policies and prices in a way which would afford us wider market opportunities. We have in mind arrangements which could be adapted without much difficulty to subsequent Common Market membership by both countries. These discussions have continued for some time past but are not yet completed and further progress is unlikely until after the British general election.

Export trade with other markets and particularly with the United States of America and the European Economic Community, which in both cases is capable of considerable improvement, is receiving special attention from our selling organisations. Improvements in marketing systems and methods are possible and must be vigorously sought and could contribute to expanding our trade with these other markets.

Agricultural output and exports and agricultural incomes in the aggregate and per head have risen, partly due to rising productivity and partly to the increased Government expenditure on agriculture, notwithstanding the fact that the index for agricultural prices showed no rise until this year. During the first four months of this year the agricultural price index showed increases which were on average seven per cent higher than in the corresponding months of 1963. Whatever this may involve for consumers, it is very good news for our farmers. Gross agricultural output was 18 per cent higher in 1963 than in 1958 while, notwithstanding increased Budget support, farmers' costs have also risen. The aggregate net income of farmers rose from £99.4 million in 1958 to £121.5 million in 1963.

I have taken 1958 for the purpose of this comparison as it was the last year preceding the introduction of the First Programme but, in fact, it was not a very good year for agriculture and comparisons of this kind are greatly affected by the base year which is selected.

In deciding that an average annual growth rate for agriculture of 2.9 per cent is feasible, the Government are taking into account the present pattern of production, the average growth rate achieved during the First Programme, our production potentialities and our export possibilities.

The prospects of a major breakthrough for Irish agriculture still seem to depend, however, on acquiring Common Market membership. The potential for increased production exists and there is little doubt that it could be realised if the assurance of adequate market prospects could be given. Notwithstanding advantages of soil and climate, the volume of output per man and per acre in Ireland is lower than in many European countries. The greater part of any increased production must, however, be sold abroad.

Because industrial expansion is proceeding more rapidly than agricultural, agriculture's share of the national income fell from 28 per cent in the average for the years 1951-53 to 22 per cent in the average for the years 1961-63 and those engaged in agriculture as a proportion of the total at work fell from 40 per cent to 35 per cent.

Deputy Dillon and other Fine Gael spokesmen never seem to appreciate the importance of this trend. This country is still too heavily dependent on agriculture and a properly balanced economy will not have been set up until the growth of industry has proceeded much further. The support which is given to agriculture through the Budget and which agriculture needs will be made easier to carry as other productive activities in the country are expanding.

During the course of recent months, there have been very useful discussions with agricultural organisations, particularly the NFA. Although it is unlikely that complete agreement on details of agricultural policy and its application will ever be secured, the practice of consultation is highly beneficial to all concerned. The relations between the Minister for Agriculture and the NFA are now much more harmonious and constructive and with that organisation the practice of regular consultation and an annual general review has been set up. This outcome of recent talks is a matter of personal gratification to me.

The Government are convinced that a well-developed co-operative movement can make a significant contribution to agricultural progress. It has done so in other countries. Enthusiasm for co-operation based on a deep-rooted understanding and acceptance of the co-operative principle has never really developed here and this is one of our serious disadvantages. With the idea of arousing public interest in co-operation as well as of securing a practical plan of action, the Minister for Agriculture arranged for Dr. Knapp, a well-known American authority on co-operation, to review the position and to make a report. Dr. Knapp's report recommended that the IAOS should receive increased Government financial support subject to its reorganisation on lines suggested in his report, that it should have responsibility for working out general reorganisation plans for the dairying industry and should extend its activities in the co-operative field. The Government have accepted these recommendations in principle. He also recommended that the Dairy Disposals Company should be transferred to co-operative control. The Government do not object in principle to this proposal but the practical difficulties involved are very considerable and are greater than Dr. Knapp appeared to appreciate.

The credit facilities now available for farmers are adequate and the only disappointing aspect is that they are not being used sufficiently by farmers even when obvious advantages are to be secured by so doing. The lending arrangements of the Agricultural Credit Corporation have been relaxed so that farmers can secure loans of up to £400, on their personal security, and up to £500, when the application is recommended by a creamery or by an Agricultural Credit Corporation agent, with a deferment of repayment obligations. It is a remarkable fact that the number of applications which have been forwarded with creamery recommendations is very small and this indicates the need there is for a stronger educational effort to promote the use of credit.

State expenditure on agriculture has more than doubled during the past decade and will amount in this year to £43 million. This is a substantial contribution from the general taxpayer to help farmers to meet rising costs and to bring their incomes into better relationship with those of other sectors. Whatever we may achieve in industrial expansion the prosperity of this country rests on the health of its agriculture and so long as international trade in agricultural products continues in its present unsatisfactory state we regard it as good national business to continue to provide these very large annual sums to help to improve the efficiency of agricultural production and to offset the impact on farm incomes of uneconomic export prices.

The need for this exceptional help will pass only when, in the context of Common Market membership or the less likely prospect of worldwide commodity agreements, farmers get a new deal in international trade and fair trading arrangements are established for agricultural products to match the free trade arrangements which are developing for industrial products.

This is the policy of the Government. It has necessitated taxation on a scale which has caused political problems for the Government by reason of the attitudes of the Opposition Parties. It is a sound policy, however, a policy which cannot be abandoned without grave danger to the whole economy.

The purpose of all economic development is to facilitate social progress, to bring about better and more secure living for all sections expressed in terms of their food, their clothing, their housing, their education, their cultural and recreational facilities. So far as these social aims are concerned, it can be said that the pipelines have been laid through which the expanding resources of the community can be directed to these purposes. There are a few, but not many, problems of organisation yet to be solved and some further arrangements required which need not, however, be much more than extensions and adjustments of the foundations already constructed. As the nation's resources grow by reason of higher production, the expansion of this social programme is assured and, as I have frequently stated, it is the policy of the Government to bring this about.

There is, however, one social problem, that of rural development, where the need for definition of clear aims has not yet secured general acceptance and where the making of policy decisions is still impeded by emotional overtones and the mistaken idea that there may be some political advantage in vagueness and the usual wishful thinking that the clock could run backwards.

The drift of population from the land, which is the main characteristic of this rural problem, is a phenomenon which has developed in almost every country in the western hemisphere, in most cases in much more pronounced degree than here. In some respects this gives us a useful pool of experience and ideas from which to draw although the attitude to it differs in different countries. In some it is encouraged; in others, like Ireland, the economic and social problems to which it gives rise, and indeed from which it stems, are the cause of growing concern, and the general desire is to slow it down and to arrest it if possible.

We have only very general information as to all the motivations and circumstances which have set up and which maintain this movement. There is no simple explanation for all the factors that are at work. Some social studies have been carried out which have been very helpful but there is still sufficient uncertainty to permit a wide variety of individual views. Few, however, will deny that the main forces are, firstly, the attraction of higher incomes in urban occupations and secondly, the declining labour requirements of agriculture. The movement of population from one economic sector to another, particularly out of agriculture, from rural to urban occupations, is not in itself an unhealthy or an undesirable phenomenon provided it promotes higher productivity in agriculture and in the whole economy and promotes better living standards all round, and provided that industry and other rural and non-rural occupations can absorb more manpower without any economic pressure towards emigration. The difference between this problem as it presents itself in this country and in some other European countries is that our industrial expansion has not yet proceeded far enough or fast enough to prevent the outcome of the movement out of agriculture being emigration rather than an internal redistribution of population.

In our thinking about these rural population problems, it is necessary to distinguish between those arising out of agriculture's reduced need of labour and the other factors which are contributing to the decline of the rural population. They are not exactly the same thing, and notwithstanding changes in agricultural production and techniques which enable higher agricultural output to be achieved with less human labour, the rural population could be maintained to the extent that other non-agricultural rural occupations could be expanded.

We are basing our policy decisions on the assumption that any sound and comprehensive policy to cope with the social problem of a contracting rural population must embrace three main objectives: firstly, the most intensive use of the land so that the maximum number of people will be retained in agriculture; secondly, the creation of family farm units, with the minimum disturbance of population, of a size and quality which will enable energetic and competent families to secure a satisfactory income; and, thirdly, the development of other opportunities for rural employment to the maximum practical extent.

As regards the improvement of small farm incomes by the intensification of production, there are very many farmers in the small farm areas who could greatly increase the output and the income from their holdings with comparatively small outlay on their own part if they availed fully of the many agricultural schemes and credit facilities now available. Why do they not do so? This is a question to which a fully satisfactory answer has not emerged. What can we do about it? The expansion of the advisory service is part of the answer. Improved facilities for agricultural education may be another. The extension of co-operation based on a real understanding of its principles may be another. A practical demonstration of what is feasible under energetic local leadership, which is what the Government intends by its small farm pilot scheme, may be another.

The Government's plans cover all these aspects. Provision is being made for the extension of advisory services in the small farm counties. Facilities for agricultural education in all its forms are being improved. A campaign to promote a vigorous co-operative movement is envisaged and a small farm pilot area scheme is being launched. As regards this pilot area scheme the purpose is to show what any small farm area can accomplish given local co-operation and energetic leadership and using the existing Government schemes. I know some people have a different idea but this is what the Government have in mind.

If, arising out of experience of development of the pilot areas, the need for extending these Government schemes or introducing new schemes should emerge, what is done must be capable, both from the organisational and financial points of view, of extension to the whole country. The Government see no point whatever in taking the administration of the pilot area schemes away from the established local advisory service and the departmental services and entrusting their administration to a new organisation; or basing them on the injection of large sums of money into the pilot areas which would defeat the primary purpose which is to show by demonstration what can be done in any area. Both of these ideas have been advocated. The number of pilot areas can be extended as experience is gained and as the demand for it grows, as it surely will, and ultimately all the small farm areas are operating on the same lines and the pilot area idea will have withered away.

As regards the improvement of farm structures in these areas, the raising of the average small farm unit to a more economic size depends on increasing the intake of land by the Land Commission and opening up wider prospects of extending migration to other areas. There are, however, limits to the extent to which this is feasible without the undue disturbance of population. The Government decided they should work within these limits. That is the motive behind the Land Bill now before the Dáil. The difficulty and delay in securing its enactment in the Dáil is evidence of the continuing reluctance to tackle this question vigorously, as well as the muddled thinking of the Opposition Parties. No matter how successful we are in intensifying agricultural production and raising the average size of the farm unit, arresting the process of the contracting of rural populations will require still more extensive measures to facilitate the setting up of rural industries, the expansion of afforestation and of industries based on it and the development of the business of tourism in all its aspects. In coastal areas the expansion of sea fishing can play an important part.

Furthermore, physical living conditions in rural areas must be brought as closely as possible to urban standards so far as public amenities are concerned—housing, electric light and power, educational facilities, piped water, sewerage and better roads. Government policy is directed to all these ends. Particularly in the sphere of housing, the Government have recognised that a serious gap has existed in previous housing programmes so far as small farms are concerned.

Hear, hear.

This gap has been closed by extending local authority responsibility to the under £5 valuation class without any charge on local rates and by larger housing grants and loans in other cases.

Improving the amenities and facilities which make life enjoyable in rural areas is not, however, solely a matter of extending public services and for Government action but is something in which a local community can do a great deal for themselves and to which the natural leaders of these communities can make an important contribution. We recognise the need for an integrated approach to rural development and this we have been trying to organise so far as the Government's work is concerned. It was to this end that the county development teams were set up, and voluntary rural organisations have been encouraged and assisted financially to extend the scope of their work. The work of organisations like Muintir na Tíre, the Irish Countrywomen's Association, Macra na Feirme and Macra na Tuaithe is of very great importance.

There is still, however, in many cases, insufficient evidence of local enthusiasm and a capacity for co-operative action and self-help in rural development. Measures needed to effect a better response are being considered. In our view, the tackling, in a comprehensive way, of social problems in small farm areas should be primarily a local effort assisted by the Government rather than a Government effort with local help. This is the way the Government wish to see it dealt with and explains the character of the arrangements on which we have decided and the principles which guide our policy.

This brings me to the subject of education. A remarkable feature of Irish society in recent years has been the lively public interest displayed in regard to the improvement and extension of facilities for education. Experience everywhere, in every country, seems to indicate that as the economic circumstances of a nation continue to improve one of the most direct consequences is a demand for increased educational facilities reflecting a very healthy impulse among parents to secure for their children a better educational foundation than they themselves were able to afford. Many people who have addressed themselves to the question of improved educational services seem to have an inadequate understanding of all the problems involved which are not confined to providing more money, building more and bigger schools or training more people.

The existing educational services, which undoubtedly leave room for improvement, have many virtues and in recent years they have been showing a very much accelerated rate of advance. Unfortunately, however, a wrong public impression about it is being created by the strange reluctance of those most directly concerned with Irish education to defend it against unfounded criticism. In this regard the entire onus of defence seems to have been left on the Minister for Education.

During the First Programme, the Government doubled the total annual State expenditure on education. We have now established a target of 100 new primary schools and 50 major school enlargement and reconstruction schemes in each year, which is very close to the highest rate of output which can be processed. This primary school programme will cost £2.5 million per year. Arrangements to increase the number of trained teachers have resulted in an addition of 1,000 to the teaching strength during the First Programme. St. Patrick's Training College is being reconstructed at a cost of £1.25 million to provide for a 50 per cent increase in the output of trained teachers. It is intended to increase the number of primary teachers by a further 1,000 by 1970. Research into new teaching methods is in process as is also the provision of modern teaching aids.

The steady improvements which are being made in the pupil-teacher ratio will be continued and consideration is being given to extending the range of subjects taught in primary schools, which may necessitate an extension of the primary school week, which is, in this country, the shortest in Europe— with one exception. Extended provision is being made for secondary scholarships and the total expenditure on these scholarships will be increased four-fold from £150,000 in 1961-62 to £600,000 in 1966-67. A remarkable feature of our educational system is the rapid and sustained increase in the number of pupils in secondary schools which was 85,000 in 1962-63 and is expected to reach 110,000 by 1970, an average annual rate of increase of 5 per cent.

It is intended to raise the school leaving age to 15 by 1970 which will involve many consequential arrangements and will mean a further and sudden large increase in the school population at the post-primary level. It is obvious that important measures must be taken, without delay, to facilitate the enlargement of the secondary school system so that the increase in the number of pupils can be absorbed without detriment to educational standards which must indeed be raised so that they will measure up to the rapidly changing social and economic needs of the community. The Government have facilitated this extension and improvement mainly by financial arrangements but as our secondary schools are mostly private institutions, increased initiative on the part of their management is essential.

The Government must have regard in the field of education as in all other fields to the rights of all members of the community. Our acceptance of this fact has led us to make provision so as to ensure adequate facilities for post-primary education where they do not now exist or where they are inadequate to meet the public needs. This resulted in the decision to establish comprehensive post-primary day schools in the areas where they are needed, mainly in the west, north-west and south-west. The Government's plans for the extension and improvement of vocational education arrangements have been announced, including the establishment of regional technical colleges and the introduction of the Technical School Leaving Certificate and the further extension of the rural vocational schools. It is obvious that in the future employment opportunities for unskilled and untrained labour will continue to contract and our vocational educational system, like our apprenticeship system, must be adjusted in the light of this prospect.

We have also need in this country to elevate the status of the technician, of the man who works with his hands, so as to eliminate the old mentality which made clerical employment seem more desirable or better-class. The needs of modern industrial society for technicians of all kinds are constantly growing and progress depends on their availability and quality. We must be second to no other country in this respect.

As regards university education, the report of the Commission is expected this year. In the past ten years, the number of university students has all but doubled, rising from 7,600 to 15,000. This growth must be expected to continue and this has required a substantial extension of accommodation, including the decision to transfer University College, Dublin to a new site at Belfield and to provide at University College, Cork, at a cost of £900,000, a new science building.

Notwithstanding the considerable growth of outlay on education, the proportion of total national resources devoted to it is still insufficient. The mental and physical wellbeing of the people and the country's economic and social progress call for still more investment in education. The approach to the matter is in no way haphazard as may be judged by the readiness with which we undertook the survey of educational investment under the aegis of the OECD. We will have the result of that survey before the end of the year.

Additional expenditure must, in turn, involve tax arrangements to make the money available. This is the aspect of educational policies which Opposition Parties seem most reluctant to face. In this connection, à propos some recent remarks, I wish to reiterate that Government policy in the sphere of education, as elsewhere, will be settled in the tradition of Wolfe Tone. Indeed it might be a very good thing if in our educational establishments in general and in University College, Dublin, in particular, Wolfe Tone's conception of the Irish nation was better understood and better respected.

While speaking on education, I wish to refer also to the Irish language and to our language policy. The Government are now considering the contents of the White Paper to be published this year in order to implement a policy for completing the task of extending the use of Irish. In many respects we see this as the most important policy decision arising to be made in this year. Before finalising our views, we are giving the most careful consideration to the recommendations of the Commission and to the many views and suggestions now being submitted to us by organisations and by individuals. I want to make quite clear the Government's position in this respect.

The decision to revive and restore the language has been taken and it is not, so far as we are concerned, open to argument. Neither do we consider that it requires justification. The matters under examination relate only to the means of achieving our declared purpose. The efforts by various language organisations to sustain public interest in Irish are highly commended, and it would be harmful to create an impression that all that is involved is pressure on the Government. This could lead to a complete misconception of the position and to confused thinking as to the character of the task before the nation.

In the last general election, when Fine Gael tried to organise for itself, in competition with the Labour Party, the support of those who are hostile to Irish, or who have become indifferent to it, or are tiring of the effort, the Government went out to meet that issue in the open. We did not try to evade it in the slightest degree. It might have been helpful if we had had then on that particular issue more open support from language organisations, but we did not ask for it. In this matter we are asserting what has been the unambiguous policy of our political Party since its inception. It is a policy we are determined to maintain, no matter who is with us, or who is against us, or what effects it may have on our electoral prospects.

The hope that is sometimes expressed that language policy should be left outside politics does not take account of the realities. The restoration of Irish as a living language is a primary aim of our political Party and an integral part of our whole national policy. As an issue, it can become non-political in a Party sense only when other Parties accept this aim as completely as we do. The problem for the nation in this regard, as we see it, is how best to strengthen public interest in the campaign for the language so as to ensure that the sacrifices which it may involve for individuals will be freely and completely made. A nation's language, which has been for so long the subject of a persistent campaign for its destruction, as ours was, cannot be restored without sacrifice. If there are 1,000,000 people really interested in Irish, not as signatories to a resolution but in a real personal sense, we hardly need a programme.

Hear, hear.

If that is not the position now, then our success depends on making it so in the future. Our plans and our measures must be rooted in public enthusiasm. As the language organisations want to help in the fulfilment of this policy, this is the field of work in which they can be most useful, strengthening support for that policy amongst the people. We have no illusions as to the magnitude and the difficulty of the task we have set ourselves. Neither have we any foolish idea that the restoration of Irish can be achieved by Government action alone although Government leadership is essential and there can be no substitute for it.

The serious enemies of Irish are not those who are openly hostile to it. They hardly count at all. The real enemies are those who give halfhearted acquiescence, those who pay lip-service to the cause in public and foster discouragement in private, and the politicians who think there is some political advantage in maintaining an ambiguous position.

I know that amongst those most keenly interested in the language there may be some divergence of view as to the ultimate aim of our policy in regard to it. In our view, this need not occupy our attention at this time. We have to plan our road ahead without unnecessary speculation as to how far it will take us. It would be futile to neglect what can now be done because of argument about ultimate objectives or the rate of progress which it may be possible to maintain. There is a great task of national importance to be faced now and it is to that task that our attention is being given and our energies directed.

The Government contemplate drawing up a plan of action similar in conception to the economic expansion programme which will set targets which are reasonable and attainable and which we hope will be generally accepted as such. Indeed, it is essential that there must be general public agreement as to the reasonableness of the measures we propose and as to the practicability of the aim that we set. This is the guiding idea which will determine the nature of the measures we will adopt, This aim, as we see it, is to preserve and cherish Irish as the national language, to extend its use as a living language and to give to everyone growing up in Ireland, through knowledge of the language and its literature, a wider accession to our cultural heritage. When we have done that, we will be a better nation in every respect.

In response to requests made recently by some Deputies, I propose now to make a brief reference to our position vis-à-vis the European Economic Community. Membership of the Community remains the aim of our Party because that is consistent with our economic development and with our social and political ideals. Our application for membership still stands. It will be pursued when circumstances make this course desirable in the national interest. We cannot predict when this will be but, as I have stated, we are going on the assumption that Ireland will be a member of the Community by 1970.

The question of proceeding with our application depends on our own decision. It is obvious, however, that the future relationship between Britain and the Community will continue to be an important factor in this situation. There are no indications at present of the resumption in the near future of negotiations between Britain and the Community and it would be hazardous to attempt to predict when any substantial movement in that direction is likely to be made. Meanwhile the arrangements which have been made for periodic discussions with the Commission of the European Community on matters of mutual interest will enable us to keep ourselves informed of developments in the Community and to ensure that as far as possible our economic and social policies evolve in a direction which will be consistent with membership of the Community. A meeting at official level has already taken place and further discussions are envisaged. These discussions will be availed of where possible to improve our trading relations with the Community.

The question has been raised, particularly in recent months, whether, pending the reopening of negotiations on our application for membership, some form of provisional or interim link with the Community could be arranged which would afford improved terms of access for our exports to the Community. It is important that, in view of our aim of participation in the Community as a member, we should do all we can in the meantime to strengthen our trading links with the Community, but it is also important that we should be clear in our minds as to the possibilities open to us in this regard.

Apart from membership, the other possible forms of relationship between the Community and the other countries, including Ireland, are firstly, association under Article 238 of the Treaty and, secondly, a trade agreement. In considering these possibilities, we must bear in mind two fundamental points. Firstly, the Community cannot give preferential treatment to individual States outside the Community, except in the context of a customs union or free trade area, or an interim agreement leading to one or the other. Secondly, there is the question of the possibility of reconciling the terms of any arrangement with the Community with the principles underlying our trading relations with Britain.

The Community has not yet established a doctrine of association under Article 238. All available information, however, points to the conclusion that an essential element in the negotiation of an association agreement with the Community would be the willingness of both of us to join in trading arrangements designed to lead to the formation of a customs union between us. Participation in a customs union with the Community would involve for us the gradual elimination of tariffs on imports from the members of the Community and the application of the common external tariffs to third countries, including Britain. The assumption by us of obligations of this kind would amount to a reversal of the preferential treatment which we accord at present to Britain under the Anglo-Irish Trade Agreement.

There are no grounds for supposing that the Community would contemplate an association agreement with us leading to a customs union, while allowing us to retain our preferential arrangements with Britain. Austria's application to the Community for an association agreement poses an analogous problem. While the formal negotiations with Austria have yet to commence, statements by both sides suggest that it would not be possible for Austria to retain membership of the EFTA while participating in a customs union with the EEC.

As regards the benefits to be gained from a normal type trading agreement with the Community, a limiting factor is the GATT prohibition against the creation of new preferences. Any tariff concession that the EEC might make to us under a trade agreement will have to be applied to all third countries. Unless we were a principal supplier of the commodity in question, the main advantage of the concession would accrue to other countries. We have, however, explored the possibility of negotiating a non-discriminatory reduction in the common external tariff of the Community. We have requested the Commission to make a reduction of 50 per cent in the duty, in the common external tariff, on fresh and chilled mutton and lamb. At the same time, I should point out that since the Community's common agricultural policy does not regulate trade in mutton and lamb, the individual member countries retain a large measure of control over imports, through the application of quantitative restrictions. Access to the Community market will therefore continue to be a matter for negotiation with individual member countries until such time as the Community evolves a common commercial policy, vis-à-vis third countries.

We have also made requests to the Community in regard to products which will be subject to regulations under the Community's common agricultural policy, namely, cattle and beef and dairy products. For cattle and beef, we have asked that our exports to Germany be granted treatment similar to that accorded to Denmark, that is, that the Community will consider taking appropriate measures if the regulation threatens to reduce our cattle and beef exports to Germany in 1964 and 1965 below the level provided for in the Irish-German Trade Agreement, and that access will be assured for a minimum level of exports during the "off-the-grass" season from September to November.

While an important point of principle arises here, we do not anticipate any fall in exports in any of the two years in question, because of the buoyant demand for cattle which exists this year and seems likely to continue. We have also asked for a review of that part of the dairy products regulation which provides for separate levies for fresh—and sour—cream butter, as these may operate to the disadvantage of our exports.

The requests, which were made in the course of discussions in March, are at present under consideration in Brussels. We have also approached the Governments of the member States for their support for our requests. The grant of the concessions we have requested would not necessarily require the conclusion of a formal trade agreement with the Community, but, should it appear that an agreement would facilitate, in any way, the enlargement of our trading links with the community, the Government would be willing to conclude one.

As Deputies are aware, the Government have reopened our application for accession to the GATT, consideration of which was suspended in 1961 pending the outcome of our application for membership of the EEC. The procedure governing accession negotiations has not yet been settled, but our intention is to participate in the Kennedy Round. These negotiations are expected to get under way next autumn and to continue throughout 1965.

As a contracting party to the GATT, we would be entitled to the full benefit, on a contractual basis, of all the tariff reductions past and future, negotiated under its aegis, including the substantial reductions which are expected to result from the Kennedy Round negotiations. As well, we would be entitled to share in whatever benefits accrued to trade in agricultural products from these negotiations.

In the past we have, though not a member, shared in the concessions negotiated in the GATT. These have, however, been small in extent and insignificant in their effect on our external trade. The negotiations which have now begun hold the possibility of a move towards freer trade on a scale never before attempted. It is desirable that we should have an established right to these concessions which would assist materially our exports to markets such as the United States of America and the member States of the European Economic Community. It can be assumed that, as a participant in these negotiations, we will be required to match the tariff reductions offered by the major industrial countries.

There are certain problems, related to the non-discrimination rule of GATT, for which we shall have to find a solution in the course of our discussions with the contracting parties to the GATT. One of these problems concerns our obligations, under the Anglo-Irish Trade Agreements, to grant Britain a preference whenever a new duty is imposed and to maintain the existing relative margin of preference, whenever we increase an existing duty with a preferential rate. While margins of preference existing before a base date to be agreed are permitted to be retained, new and increased preferences are contrary to the most-favoured-nation principle of the GATT, except in the framework of a customs union or a free trade area and may not be granted without the consent of the other contracting parties.

The problem in regard to our contractual obligations to Britain would, therefore, arise if in future we found it necessary to increase an existing duty with a preferential rate. The extent of the adjustments, if any, to the Anglo-Irish Trade Agreements, which would be necessitated by our accession to the GATT will depend on the outcome of our discussions with the contracting parties. We are also having discussions on the subject with the British authorities. The problem is not one of any great practical significance in view of the downward trend of our tariffs.

There is also the question of our industrial quotas. The GATT rules prohibit quantitative restrictions on imports except in circumstances of balance of payments difficulties. However, our import régime is comparatively liberal and we would expect to be allowed a respite of a number of years, in which to remove our quota restrictions in GATT, particularly as many of the contracting parties continue to apply import restrictions. As part of our arrangements for the enlargement and eventual elimination of quotas, provision has been made for the substitution of tariff for quota protection.

A more complex problem arises in relation to the revision of protection against imports from low-cost countries, principally textile products. The threat of such imports becomes more acute, according as tariffs are reduced and quotas enlarged. At present we are free to deal with the problem, if we so wish, by means of discriminatory import restrictions. The GATT contains rules for the non-discriminatory administration of permitted quota restrictions. The present trend in GATT is to negotiate bilateral agreements with low cost countries, providing for the application of agreed limits to trade in particular commodities. The Government will be prepared to negotiate suitable agreements of this kind with individual low cost countries.

A noteworthy development in recent years has been the growth abroad of awareness of and interest in Ireland. This has been demonstrated by numerous and favourable articles in foreign newspapers, television programmes and radio programmes, the visits of distinguished leaders of opinion, heads of State and Government Ministers, and the growing popularity of Ireland as a venue for international conferences. These developments boost our national morale and help our efforts to open up new trading possibilities, and ensure goodwill in our international dealings of every kind, and in that way help us in our national progress.

The methods by which we have chosen to promote our national development, have evoked interest and comment in other countries, and have encouraged nations, facing similar development problems, to work along the same lines. Our interest in the welfare of the newly-freed nations of Africa and Asia, and our willingness to give them practical help, when this is within our power, are universally recognised. Our people are becoming increasingly aware of the impact of world conditions on our own circumstances, and of the obligations that we must accept as a member of the family of nations.

During the course of the past year, leaders of many nations, including the USA and France, have said that relations with Ireland were never better, and from no country has the contrary been said. This situation is partly the result of the consistency with which we have supported the highest purposes of the UN, and of the conduct of our external relations generally, and partly to the recognition of the fact that our progress at home has entitled us to international respect.

Notwithstanding the limiting effects of the persistence of Partition, Ireland has won a place amongst the nations, of which our people everywhere, at home and abroad, feel proud and are entitled to be, and this pride they are expressing with increasing enthusiasm and frequency.

I apologise for the length of this statement. I decided, however, that it was desirable to outline the policy of the Government in matters of greatest current interest. The volume on the Second Programme to be published on Saturday will elaborate these views, and deal with other matters on which I have not touched. I commend its close study to all political Parties now in search of a policy.

I move:

That the Vote be referred back for reconsideration.

There is a tough cynicism and crude impudence about the Taoiseach which naturally appeals to the people supporting him, but if he imagines that in this day and year he can attempt to establish political blackmail to deter the Opposition from doing its duty as it sees fit, he has another think coming. As long as we consider it necessary to direct public attention to the amazing outlay of public money, we shall continue to do so, without respect to persons or to the threats of political blackmail emanating from the Taoiseach or from any other member of his Party.

The Taoiseach began his statement today by saying that unemployment is lower this year than it was last year. That statement is not borne out by the figures which he himself circulated from the Central Statistics Office which sets out the numbers on the live register on 21st June at 40,200. Two years ago, there were more people employed.

I said they were lower this year than last year.

That is more evidence of the cynical toughness of the Taoiseach.

The Deputy is reading the wrong column.

The Taoiseach can use words blatantly to hide the fact that there is a decline of 200 people in employment in this country now as compared with two years ago, despite the fact that we have more people emigrating.

It is less than half the number you had.

That is misrepresentation. I do not expect that from the Taoiseach. This is June, 1964.

This is typical of the cynical, crude impudence of the Taoiseach. He gets up and tosses these figures about in the hope that he will be able to put across the fraud on the people. The amazing part of it is that with the unprecedented outlay of public money by the Government, with the export of a quarter of a million of our people to Birmingham, Bootle, Glasgow and London, we still have more unemployment today than we had two years ago. The figure puzzles me and it shows the value of the statistics with which we have been furnished by the Taoiseach today.

The next remarkable feature of the Taoiseach's statement today was his amazing audacity on the subject of housing. In the course of the next seven years, they are going to do an unprecedented job on housing, according to him. Was there ever a more cynical performance from the head of a Government whose record in housing is well known to everybody in the country? At this moment the houses in the city of Dublin are falling down on the people in them. Old people are being taken out of their rooms and being put into institutions or into caravans which have had their wheels taken off and which are now being described as chalets. If anybody else proposed that the people should be housed in caravans, there would have been a public uproar.

When we ask how has that come to pass, how it is there is an acute housing shortage in every town and county in Ireland and in the city of Dublin, I would like to read out the record of the Government with regard to housing over the past seven years. The total number of houses built with State aid as set out in Table 160 of the Social Statistics was 9,837 in 1956. In 1957, it was 10,969. Then Fianna Fáil took office and in the following year, it fell to 3,480. In 1959, it was 4,894; in 1960, it was 5,999; in 1961, it was 5,798; in 1962, it was 5,626; and in 1963 it was 6,867. Is it any wonder that the houses are falling down on the people in the city of Dublin?

The number of houses built by local authorities as shown in table 159 was 4,011 in 1956, 4,785 in 1957, 3,467 in 1958, 1,812 in 1959, 2,114 in 1960, 1,463 in 1961, and 1,238 in 1962. The Taoiseach is now swaggering as to what he is going to do in the years that lie ahead in respect of housing in this country. He delivered himself of some remarkable affirmations, one of which was that there are inexorable economic laws which no country can escape. It is late in the day he woke up to that. I suggest to him that one of these inexorable laws is that if the Government by their policy deliberately raise the cost of living, it detonates a spiral of rising costs and prices, and they bring very serious problems in their train. That is the situation with which this country is confronted at present.

The Government are persuaded, the Taoiseach says, that a good co-operative movement is useful for agriculture. The Taoiseach might have gone on to say he was in favour of the institution of matrimony, or honest dealing, or the regular recitation of one's prayers. All these would be equally new and novel concepts. It interested me to observe that we invited Mr. Knapp over here to instruct us how we ought to operate co-operation in Ireland. We taught the Americans co-operation; they learned co-operation from us. Why we required Mr. Knapp to tell us it was a desirable thing to give the Irish Agricultural Organisation Society more money or to ask them to do more work or to tell us to transfer the Dairy Disposal Board to the co-operative societies is a complete mystery to me.

For as long as I was in the Department of Agriculture, I was always imploring the IAOS to go out and act in an apostolic sense and spread co-operation throughout the country. I urged on them to ask me for more money and told them that the Government were most eager and willing to give it to them. There was no co-operative society in this country who wanted Mr. Knapp to tell them to ask us to hand over the Dairy Disposal Board to them. They had been asking for that for the past 25 years. I urged them, as no doubt my successor has done, to make an offer to them, but invariably I found that the suppliers being served by the Board did not want to make the transfer because they knew the Board was doing a better job.

Certainly it would be desirable for the IAOS to do more work organising co-operation throughout the country. I think everybody in the House will agree that, if they want more money to get that work done, there will be no difficulty about it. But why we had to get Mr. Knapp to tell us that I cannot imagine. Why the Government were paralysed from acting in that sphere until they got the green light from Mr. Knapp is a mystery to me.

I do not agree with the Taoiseach and our Party do not agree with Fianna Fáil in the belief that it is desirable to depopulate rural Ireland. I do not see why we should accept from abroad the whole concept that it is a good thing to depopulate rural Ireland and that, in fact, the only criterion to be applied is: can you thereby increase wealth or not? I believe you lose something infinitely precious to the whole social pattern of our society by driving the people off the land to the cities.

I have often said in this House, and I now repeat it, that the doctrine of applying to the user of land no other criterion than his capacity to produce money is as old as Lord Lucan. Lord Lucan acquired in this country the style and title of the Great Exterminator. His theory was to clear the people off the land, divide it up into 500 acre farms, bring over Scots factors and re-employ the farmers as labourers and give them better pay. In that way he felt he would generate more wealth; what he described as the peasants would have more money and the proprietors would have larger returns.

Fortunately, the tenant farmers of those days dissented from that proposition and drove Lord Lucan out of this country. I hope their grandsons and great-grandsons will prove themselves as good men as their grandfathers and great-grandfathers did against Lord Lucan and will not accept the proposition from Fianna Fáil that the way to resolve the social problems of this country is to drive the people off the land.

The Taoiseach has drawn into his review of this Government's policy the question of the Land Bill. The objection to the Land Bill is as clear as crystal. This is the first Land Bill ever introduced in this House since the State was founded in which a Minister sought the right to initiate inspection for the purpose of acquisition. That is a power the political head of the Land Commission never should have. It has been repeatedly affirmed by successive Governments here that those who first instituted the land code after the foundation of this State were wise in determining that the ownership of land would never become the subject of a decision by a political Minister but would be reserved to the Land Commissioners, who would hold that power by virtue of their quasi-judicial status.

This Bill contains in it the additional evil that it is proposed to give this power to the Minister himself and that the Minister's executive officer, the Secretary of the Department of Lands, is then to be made a Land Commissioner. Therefore, you will have an examination of the lands instituted by the Minister through his own Secretary, through his instructions to the senior inspectors in the country. When the matter comes to be determined before the Land Commission as to whether the lands inspected are to be acquired or not, the man who acted as the Minister's executive in directing the lands to be inspected will himself be one of the Commissioners to determine whether the lands are to be acquired or not. Unless he proceeds to the acquisition, by implication he condemns his own Minister for having instituted the examination. The principle is bad, rotten, and everyone who understands the land question in this country understands the evil elements in these provisions of the Land Bill, and a great many of the Taoiseach's supporters in this House share that view. If he does not know that, he had better inquire into it.

It is these elements in the Land Bill we will resist with all the resources at our disposal. If these elements were not in the Bill, it would have been readily enacted and passed through this House before the recess. I believe that the preservation of our people on the land is a vital element in the preservation of the social pattern of our society. I believe that social pattern is a better pattern for our people than any we can import from abroad. I believe there is scope, and indeed need, for the provision of employment in or near these people's homes for the sons and daughters who cannot find employment on their family holdings. Why that should be regarded as an impossibility in this country when it is of universal application throughout the Rhineland, Bavaria and many parts of France is a mystery to me. I hope and believe we will have an opportunity of expanding small industry in this country which will give employment to the members of rural families surplus to the requirements of the land in or near their own homes and thus preserve the pattern of society which I consider to be a very precious element in our way of life.

The Taoiseach says that he is bewildered as to why it is that people in rural Ireland will not avail of all the schemes that are provided by the Department of Agriculture for their benefit. The answer is perfectly simple —because they never had and they have not now adequate advisory services. These services, compared with those available in Belgium, Holland, Denmark and Switzerland, are ludicrously inadequate, and unless and until proper and adequate services of that character are available, the schemes which are made available by the Department of Agriculture will never be fully availed of. The real fact is that there must be some central direction of the advisory services or they will not do the job which they ought to be doing. Sooner or later, that will have to be attended to, and, if this Government do not do it, then their successor will.

I have spoken of the Taoiseach's tough cynicism and crude impudence and I had particularly in mind his affirmation about the Irish language when I used those phrases. Picture the Taoiseach, who could not bid a dog good-morning in Irish, addressing us all on the subject of the Irish language and warning us that we are all anti-national and we are lining up against him and his Party in whatever attitude they adopt. For crude impudence that beats Banagher.

I know the Fianna Fáil Party have tried to make of Irish a political issue. They have tried to hold themselves out as a sole repository of affection for the language and the champions of it in this country. They are quite indifferent to the fact that we are in the position we are in at the present time, when their leader, the present Taoiseach, announces that a new departure is necessary and a complete new programme will be embarked upon, after 40 years in which every Party in this country has consistently said that it wanted to revive the language. Is it not time that somebody woke up to the fact that whatever we have been doing for the last 40 years has not been the right thing? During that period, the fíor-Ghaeltacht has shrunk to about one-quarter of its size and the latest contribution to the language revival movement by the Fianna Fáil Party is to invent a new language, an Irish that no living native speaker has ever spoken or will ever speak. If the Taoiseach thinks that is any contribution to the revival of the Irish language, he has another think coming.

One plain, inescapable fact exists, that is, that until you can get the majority of our people to want to revive the Irish language, you will never succeed in reviving it, and I am as certain as that I am standing here that the policy of trying to ram Irish down the people's throats is the surest way of killing a love of the language amongst the majority of our people and if it is persisted in, so certainly as we are in this House today, the language will die in our time or the lifetime of our children.

I want to say quite categorically that I and my colleagues believe that it would be a catastrophe, not only for this country but for the world, that we should renege on our trusteeship of a living language and suffer it to die. It is not very often that a living language dies but it has happened. Cornish died; Manx died, and Manx died quite recently as a living language—both Celtic languages—and it is a great tragedy to think that that has come to pass. It would be a far greater tragedy if Irish were suffered to die amongst us. It should not be and it need not be. If the revival is undertaken in the right way, I believe it is still possible to avoid that catastrophe but with the passage of every year, that catastrophe comes closer.

I am certain still that if adequate inducements were provided for the rising generations of our people, we could make the language a spoken language, strong and living in our community, but let no one deceive himself that the example of what has been done with Hebrew in Israel is a clear indication of what ought to be possible here in Ireland. There is no parallel. In Israel, you had a new emergent artificial nation consisting of a very Tower of Babel of languages; emigrants pouring in from 40 different nations, with 40 different languages, and the very essential desideratum they required to preserve their identity as a political entity was a common tongue. In search of that common tongue, they chose Hebrew, in the belief that every element coming into the country had at least a bowing acquaintance with that one common language, which was the Latin of their religion. It was for their religion what Latin was to us, Roman Catholics. So, the revival of Hebrew became a kind of emergency lifeline of Israel to which everybody eagerly clung, not only for the language's sake but in order to establish contact with the neighbours amongst whom he had elected to live. Everything was working towards the easy realisation of their objective.

We are faced with this situation in which our young people have pouring in on top of them night and day all the power of the cinema, all the power of the radio, all the power of television, all the power of the language habitually used by 90 per cent of the population and it is in face of all that that we have to make our fight to bring the language back. Without the enthusiastic support of the vast majority of our people, it would be a hopeless battle and we cannot do the language a greater injury than to alienate that support at this most crucial time. I am quite certain that if the Taoiseach, not speaking one single word of the language, approaches this problem with his customary tough, crude approach, he could very easily administer to this precious national asset the coup de grAce from which it would never recover.

Now, Sir, I want to say a few words with special reference to the Taoiseach's observations that there were certain economic laws from which this country or any other country can never escape. We are weary listening to Fianna Fáil talking about its programmes. It has had its first economic programme and we all are exhorted now in the light of that programme to look forward to its second programme with enthusiastic anticipation. I know Fianna Fáil are past masters of ballyhoo and propaganda and I suppose in politics there is room for that as well as there is for less disingenuous activity but I want to ask the House and the country how are we to judge the results of the Fianna Fáil first plan for economic expansion.

One of the most detestable heresies which the Taoiseach and his Party have sought to sell our people is that nothing in the world matters but money. I believe that the most precious asset a country has is its people and if we are to judge the First Programme for Economic Expansion in this country by whatever the results it has produced, we have purchased them at the expense of 250,000 young people exported from this country, the vast majority of whom will never come back. We have at the end of the First Programme for Economic Expansion 70,000 fewer people working in the country than we had when that programme began, or certainly in 1956. The cost of running the country has doubled from £108 million a year to £215 million a year, and during the period of this glorious plan, although the Government have forced the revenue up to £215 million, we have borrowed £261 million in the past seven years and we propose to borrow £82 million in the year ahead.

When you come to study the revenue raised and the money borrowed, the most important aspect of the question is: what value have you got for it? If we were in a position to say that, having borrowed all that money and having increased the annual revenue to that figure, we had completed the housing requirements of our people and were in a position to face the situation which the Taoiseach himself envisaged of replacing obsolescent houses at the rate of 70,000 a year for the next I do not know how many years, almost indefinitely, we would have something of which to boast. The truth of it is that after that vast expenditure, after that six or seven years of economic planning, our housing situation today is far worse than it was before the plan began.

I want to repeat here what I have said before. One of the jibes of Fianna Fáil against us was that we built more houses than we had tenants to put into them. I remember Independent Deputies and Deputies of the Fianna Fáil Party repeatedly offering that rebuke. I want to say again that I regard that as one of the proudest boasts of the Government of which I constituted a part. In 1957 there were actually houses of the Dublin Corporation for which there were no tenants available because we had built what might have seemed at that time too many but what in fact proved to be no more than current demand required. This Government, as a result of the housing record which I have read out today for the House, despite the vast expenditure to which I have referred, find themselves in a state of panic seeking to make up the consequences of their deplorable dereliction of duty in respect of housing during those last seven years.

We are now going to do miracles in the sphere of education and Fianna Fáil are now committed to all sorts of marvellous hopes and anticipations in regard to education. It is an interesting and significant thing that after the first six or seven years of their activities, it is only now they are beginning to wake up to the need of expanding education opportunities for our children. So far as this side of the House is concerned, we find no difficulty in saying that we agree in principle that the ideal to be aimed at is that the best we have in primary, secondary, vocational and university education should be made available, through State aid where necessary, to every child in this country who can avail of it with benefit. That objective when first formulated by our Party was manifestly regarded by the present administration as being extravagant. The real fact is that outside this country this has come to be accepted pretty generally as the norm and is already substantially in effect in Great Britain, Northern Ireland, the United States and elsewhere.

We have watched with growing impatience the inadequate health services that have existed and still exist here and we believe it should have been possible within the scope of this vast additional expenditure to which I have referred to effect a radical reform in the health services, even without recourse to any fundamental change in the basis on which they operated. However, we believe it would be better to change the whole basis of the health services and to move them over on to an insurance basis which would provide our people with adequate health services of a kind consistent with the dignity of decent people who should have as a right that which they are now required to accept as a kind of quasi-charity. We want to get rid of the blue card. We want to give people access to a doctor of their choice. We think the hospital services of which they stand in need should be made available to them, and last but by no means least, we believe free access to the drugs they need for prompt cure should be made available to them, that is, free if they cannot afford to pay for them or at a substantially reduced price if they can make some contribution themselves.

This Government have put into operation the turnover tax of 2½ per cent and we were assured when that tax went into operation it could result in an increase in the cost of living of no more than 2½ per cent. Since that tax was put into operation, the cost of living has increased by almost 2/- in the £, almost entirely as a result of the imposition of the turnover tax on the food, fuel and clothing of our people. I think I am justified in saying, and I say it with the fullest possible sense of responsibility, that we are at present marching straight into an inflationary situation which may present us with acute problems, if not in the months, certainly in the years that lie ahead.

I should like if I could to formulate a definition of inflation, which would be generally accepted. I think it is fair to say that if you are confronted with a situation in which prices are rising and there is a growing deficit in the balance of trade, visible and invisible, you are moving into an inflationary situation the control of which becomes progressively more and more difficult with the passage of every year it endures.

The adverse trade balance at the present time is £118 million. It is true that in the last year to which that figure applied our adverse balance of payments was no more than £22 million but that resulted from our invisible exports which do not appear in the trade balance figures. There is also a sum of approximately £25 million representing capital coming in here of various qualities, some of it by way of deposit, some of it by way of investment, which is welcome in so far as it establishes new industries calculated to generate new exports. However, a great deal of it has been coming in to buy land and property which really means that to balance our books, we are selling our land and property bit by bit for cash to foreigners.

I want to direct the attention of the House to the fundamental difference which exists between that and the import of capital for the establishment of new industries calculated to generate new exports. That, we are all agreed, is a desirable development and one that all sides of the House have sought to promote but there is quite a difference, in my submission, between that kind of capital import and capital which is imported in the process of taking over of existing, established businesses and capital imported for the acquisition of agricultural land.

I think the growing rate at which one observes the take-over of old, existing businesses, one after another, in this country by anonymous, foreign financial trusts should cause us very material alarm. I am credibly informed at present that there are certain old Irish companies in this city and if you seek in the Stock Exchange to buy shares in them, before the transfer can be executed, you get an inquiry to know if you are an Irish national because so high a percentage of their shares is already in foreign hands that they are not permitted by present law to register further transfers to foreign hands.

We read in the papers of wine and spirit concerns, insurance companies and a variety of other existing enterprises being taken over, lock, stock and barrel. We are told by the Government that they foresee a growing volume of adverse balance of payments in the years ahead. I should like to ask the Taoiseach to say when replying how long they think that they can carry on on that basis. I should like the Taoiseach and his advisers to say how long they believe the adverse balance of payments which may be temporarily concealed by accretions of capital in the various categories I have described, can proceed, bearing in mind that every £1 million of capital that comes in here constitutes an enduring charge on our balance of payments in the future. Where the capital coming in generates exports to meet the charge, or more than meet it, it is a welcome import, but where it comes in simply to impose that charge, unless provision is made and unless we can clearly foresee our ability to meet that charge over the long term in which it will devolve on us, we must ask ourselves what the economic state of the country is likely to be.

I feel that the Taoiseach is the kind of man who just hopes and prays that something will turn up. What is the whole crux of the matter? If we can go on expanding exports and earning a profit on them, our standard of living will continue to grow, but our ability to export, particularly in the industrial field, is controlled by our ability to compete. The plain truth is, to anybody who studies these matters, that on the right of us and on the left of us, pretty brisk inflations exist at present in the U.S.A. and in Great Britain. We know perfectly well the reasons for these inflations: both countries have general elections pending at the end of the year and both are quite resolved that in no circumstances will there be any restriction on the expansive tendencies which have been so sedulously promoted for electoral purposes. In that atmosphere, our capacity to compete is made all the greater by the relative inflation which is proceeding in our two principal markets. If, as is highly likely, at the conclusion of the general election in Great Britain, a different atmosphere obtains, unless we can control the rising cost of living and the tendency for our industrial costs to rise, our competitive capacity in our principal market, in Britain, is likely to disappear. If it does, Nemesis will come upon this country.

I heard the Taoiseach speak today of our attitude to the Common Market and on that I want to say a word in a moment's time. It is as certain as that we are standing here that if the cost of living and the cost of production rise, this country can meet with an acute crisis in regard to its balance of payments and its whole economic existence. It is true that so long as the Government borrow on a heroic scale and tax on a heroic scale and spend that money very largely on construction, as is being done, there will be a boom in the building trade but it is something of which the Government should be bitterly ashamed that at a time when admittedly the building trade is booming and working to capacity, we are faced with the prospects of having to superimpose upon the virtual 100 per cent employment that the industry at present experiences the additional burden of the urgent housing problem which should have been part of the load borne by the industry over the past five years.

I want to say a word in reference to the Taoiseach's pronouncement about the Common Market. He spoke at some length on this topic and professed to tell us frankly what the position of the Government was. Anything less frank I have never listened to. Stripped of all its verbiage, as I understand the position, it is that if Great Britain joins the Common Market we must join, but if Great Britain does not join the Common Market, we cannot. Why the Taoiseach does not say that plainly, I do not know. It is a source of humiliation to anybody whose job takes him abroad to international conferences where those concerned with matters of this kind joke about the fact that our Government at one time announced their intention of going it alone but now they have changed their tune. Everybody knows what the position is, except presumably the Taoiseach's own supporters. Why he thinks it is good policy to fool them in this way I do not know.

The misrepresentation is on Deputy Dillon's side. He must not have listened to the Taoiseach.

I listened very carefully and the Taoiseach's statement boils down to the fact that if Britain joins the Common Market, we must join in order to maintain a market where we do 70 per cent of our trade. If she does not join, we cannot. We might as well face the fact and get it over and done with. Unless you face it and accept that situation, I think you are closing your eyes to other matters of considerable consequence. It was true that up to relatively recently EFTA had very little of interest to us because it was related to the European Free Trade Agreement, related only to industrial goods and had no reference to agricultural products. I am told now that EFTA is beginning to discuss amongst its members the desirability of extending its attention to aspects of agricultural trade. If that is true, then I think our Government should inform itself of this development and reconsider its attitude towards EFTA for, if EFTA extends its policy on trade agreements and the reduction of tariffs to agricultural produce, it would be of vital interest to this country to know what was afoot and might very well be of vital interest to this country to participate in negotiations of that kind.

The Taoiseach spoke of our application for admission to GATT. I am wholly at a loss to understand what the Government's policy is on GATT. I have been listening to affirmations here now for two years with the Government teetering and tottering on GATT. Do Deputies realise what membership of GATT means? If we join GATT, and the Kennedy Round succeeds, the object is to have a 50 per cent reduction in all tariffs for every country which is a member of GATT. Now, if that is the policy, would anyone explain to me why our Government is reducing tariffs 10 per cent per annum in preparation for an agreement under which we will accept having to reduce tariffs by 50 per cent.

The United States of America will not do it. No European country will do it. There has been a long, protracted struggle going on as a preliminary to the Kennedy Round and the members of the European Economic Community have said to America that they will not discuss a flat 50 per cent reduction in tariffs unless the United States reduce their tariffs, which are out of proportion to all the other tariffs, and that the United States of America refuses to do. We are going to go into these negotiations with the EEC tariff structure as it is, and our tariff structure as it is, and then we will start arguing, and we may end up with across the board 10 per cent, 20 per cent, or 30 per cent, but we want 50 per cent, and it is 50 per cent on the present basis.

The most acrimonious argument has gone on and many people say that the failure of the EEC to accept a common agricultural tariff has wrecked the whole prospect of overall agreement. As I understand the situation, the Americans' advice was to fix a common agricultural policy and then, from that position, to come and discuss giving the United States access to that agricultural market and, if the EEC countries were in a position to do that, they would consider then smoothing out the peaks of tariffs prior to sitting down to negotiate the Kennedy Round. We are in the astonishing position that we are telling our own people that we are moving into GATT for the Kennedy Round and, at the same time, we are unilaterly reducing tariffs by 10 per cent per annum one year after another. Both stories cannot be true. No Government can be so daft as that and I am beginning to wonder is the Taoiseach telling the people the truth when he says we are negotiating for admission in the knowledge and belief that the Kennedy Round is likely to succeed? It seems to me we are not fully informed and it is high time the Taoiseach took us further into his confidence.

I should like to engage the Taoiseach's attention for a moment: am I correct in saying that a public statement is to be made in regard to Cyprus today?

Then I propose to ask the Taoiseach certain questions in regard to the situation in Cyprus. What is the Government's position in regard to the Cyprus situation? We have now been there three months and I take it we have undertaken to remain there for a further three months. Is the Government in a position to give us any forecast of what is likely to happen or are we to anticipate that we will be engaged indefinitely in Cyprus? Is there any prospect of a resolution of this situation? Quite frankly, I feel we made a material contribution to whatever was achieved in the Congo and I hope that ultimately some good will come of that.

In the circumstances in which we sent troops to the Congo, we were right. It would be a source of bitter mortification to all of us on this side of the House if we had any second thoughts on that, because, as I said before, when we considered that problem in 1961 we agreed to the proposal to send Irish troops in the full knowledge of all the hazards and dangers into which they were going and we believed then, as we believe now, that on balance it was the right thing to do. If the United Nations had not been sustained in her operations in the Congo, whatever the present situation may be, and bad as it is, it would have been worse if anarchy and chaos had been allowed to rage through Africa at that time.

There is no parallel, however, between the situation in the Congo and the situation in Cyprus and I have an uncomfortable feeling that we may get into a situation in Cyprus in which there will be no end to the mission and in which very little useful purpose will be served by the continued presence of the United Nations there. If the Taoiseach can say that, in his judgment and from the information at his disposal, there is some early prospect of the problems that at present perplex Cyprus being resolved and of our troops and the troops of the other members of the United Nations being released from this assignment, that would be a new situation.

We ought, however, be vigilant to ensure that we are not more and more drawn into this maelstrom in Cyprus and we should be equally vigilant to ensure that, if any additional requisition is made upon us, all the other participants in the work of sustaining the United Nations effort there will be required to make a proportionate addition to their contribution to the operation. I can well imagine that a situation might easily arise in which certain of us who are participating in that operation would have the buck passed to us in greater and greater degree while others, who have a very much more immediate responsibility for the problem, would withdraw in greater and greater measure for the most exalted reasons.

We would be guilty of a very serious error in judgment if we allowed a situation to develop in which a disproportionate share of the responsibility for maintaining this operation were to be cast upon us. I should like the Taoiseach, when he is concluding, to touch on this matter if he can and to say to us, at least, that in principle we take the view that the proportion of the burden we are at present carrying is the limit we are prepared to carry in the future and, if any additional effort is required from us, we will consider it right and proper that a corresponding additional effort will be called for from the other participating members in the joint Cyprus United Nations undertaking.

In conclusion, I want to say to the House and to the country that, if the present Government policy of forcing up the cost of living, with the consequential increase in our costs of production, the rising prices and consequential deficit in our balance of trade and in our balance of payments, is allowed to go forward as it is at present we will be faced with very serious difficulties in the future. There are vast areas of public expenditure which cry out for urgent attention, principally in the spheres of education, housing and public health. I believe that by the prudent marshalling of our resources, they are possible to meet, but unless those resources are prudently marshalled, they may be denied our people, at a time when all other peoples in similar circumstances are enjoying them.

It has been wisely said by a Greek philosopher that poverty is something of which no people need be ashamed, unless and until they accept it as the norm and cease to struggle to escape from it. It would be a sorry day for this country if we were obliged to accept the position that amongst the free and relatively developed nations of the world, we accepted for our people lower standards of education, in health and in housing, than were the norm in the nations amongst whom we have our being. If we follow the line at present being followed by the Fianna Fáil Party, that problem may confront us fairly soon. It will be the consequence of reckless gambling——

Not again.

——with our people's future. It may be that the Taoiseach hopes that the full consequence will not be his responsibility to meet. It would be a great disaster if, in that hope, he created problems too great for anyone to resolve, whoever he might be. In my judgment, the sooner this administration is replaced by another which would have a greater regard for the future of our people rather than to the exertion of collecting votes by promising to drain the Shannon seven years after they received the——

Do not talk such nonsense.

It is the Taoiseach who talked the nonsense.

He was correct in the statement he made. He can stand over every word of it.

The very reference to it excites their indignation. Collecting votes is a legitimate political activity.

Ochone agus ochone.

There is no need to applaud. The measure of your failure to get them will be the measure of this country's hope and I look forward with great optimism to the verdict the people in Roscommon and Leitrim will pass on the attitude adopted by the Deputy's Party in that constituency. On the issue of that, great fortunes hang and I am fairly confident that the issue will be rightly determined and that the people will record emphatically what they think of the Deputy, the Taoiseach and his Party.

What they thought in Kildare and Cork.

The Taoiseach made a pretty long speech which one could describe as a comprehensive review of the Second Programme for Economic Expansion. During the speech, I tried to think what were the main points with which he had dealt and I came to the conclusion that he had spoken about everything that one could think of. He was a veritable Santa Claus and he gave something to everybody. He treated every difficulty and problem we ever had or will have and said that the Government have a solution for them. He glossed over too smoothly and too quickly the results of the First Programme for Economic Expansion and, in view of the fact that these two programmes are more or less experimental—at least the first was—we cannot pass lightly over the results of the First Programme.

I would say that in the main the Taoiseach's speech was statistically factual. I do not think anybody will object to the different figures he gave for industrial production, employment and so on. However, for too long has the impression been given to us that prosperity exists because certain statistics indicate that that is so. Listening to the Taoiseach, I thought it would be far better if he spoke about actual people and not about figures because, in many parts of the country the statistics which he has given are not found very impressive, and the results of which he boasted are not felt in many parts of the country. It can be shown by statistics that the country generally may have advanced in regard to prosperity, but that is not much use unless that prosperity is fairly evenly divided. We have many parts in the country in which the First Programme has had virtually no effect. It is true that in many parts it has, and I trust therefore in the implementation of the Second Programme, an effort will be made to ensure that all sections of the community will benefit from whatever prosperity may emanate from it.

The Taoiseach apologised for the length of what he called a statement of policy. I do not say that it is a statement of policy. It was merely a statement of the objectives and desires and, perhaps, the hopes of all the members of this House and what we disagree on and I suppose we will always disagree on this, are the methods by which these are to be achieved, the priorities and the speed with which they may be achieved. The Taoiseach said that on Friday, in one part, and on Saturday in another, we would have the first part of the Second Programme. However, we are to have it this week-end and I trust that will include some sort of plan and not merely what the first publication was, merely a forecast of what might happen. The Taoiseach had occasion to describe the results of the First Programme as a success story. I do not wish to belittle any efforts made by the Government or any other agency, but I do not think the First Programme could be said to have been eminently successful.

Let us not labour it, but, from 1958 to 1962, 170,000 people emigrated. That is a pretty substantial number. It is true in other years many more may have emigrated, but this was the first five year plan ever introduced, or described as such, and 170,000 people emigrated. We have not seen any spectacular decrease in the registered number of unemployed. They are running approximately the same as they were this time last year, but the employment figures are higher than what they were at the same time in 1962. I am not saying there is a tremendous difference, but there is no sign of any spectacular decrease in the numbers of unemployed. As a matter of fact, as far as unemployment is concerned, the 1963 figures were infinitely worse, one might say, than the unemployment figures for 1962 and 1961. There were 6.1 per cent of the insured people unemployed in 1963, 5.7 in 1962 and the same in 1961.

Do not go back to 1957, when there were 97,000.

There were 97,000 unemployed, approximately, in January and February in 1957. I have said that previously and it is on the record. In 1934, under Fianna Fáil, there were 134,000 people unemployed.

Under a different method of calculation.

I am just giving the figures. I am admitting the unemployment figure for 1957 and stating what it was in 1934. The greater economic expansion in 1963 is anticipated to be 4 per cent and there are other factors that should be mentioned in respect of the past few years. A figure to which the Taoiseach did not refer, although he did mention the subject, was the decrease in the numbers employed in agriculture. They fell by 8,000 from April 1962 to April 1963. Everybody welcomes the fact there was an increase of 5,100 in manufacturing industry in the same year. As far as our information goes, there has been a pretty good advance in industrial employment in the first five or six months of this year.

I do not propose to hold a long post mortem on the first economic programme. Broadly speaking, we have two problems in this country. The most important one is the getting of new jobs quickly and the second one is that of improving our living standards. I do not think the Second Programme provides for our getting enough jobs quickly. The Second Programme forecasts an increase of 78,000 in employment between 1960 and 1970. That generally means that the programme envisages that we will have about 7,800 new jobs on an average each year between 1960 and 1970. The Taoiseach will be the first to admit that many more jobs are needed and that within that period of ten years, we should have aimed at a higher target than 78,000 new jobs.

We have been complaining here year after year about people leaving the land for various reasons. The introduction of machinery was the main reason but they are leaving for other reasons as well. The rural areas do not seem to be as attractive now as they were for the people who lived in them in former times. Many have left in the past ten or 15 years and the truth of the matter is that the wages were not good enough. We need jobs for the unemployed, the thousands of unemployed who have been unemployed for a long time and, above all, we need many more jobs for the increasing numbers leaving school. Therefore, 78,000 new jobs —where they got the figure I do not know—will still leave us with an unemployment problem of 3½ per cent of our insured workers.

Far be it from me to compare this country with Britain but there the figure is 1.4 per cent of the insured workers which is a spectacular figure as far as Britain is concerned. We should not regard ourselves as being too ambitious when we say that by 1970 our unemployment rate will be 3½ per cent. I do not think that the Government appreciate that we still have an emigration problem. Last year 25,000 people emigrated, double the figure for the year before. As far as we can gather from the most up-to-date figures, emigration is still running at the rate of 20,000 a year.

The Second Programme envisages an average increase in gross national product of 4 per cent per annum. If we are to improve the standard of living of our people relative to the standards in Britain and the Common Market countries, an annual average increase of 4 per cent in our gross national product will still leave a gap between the standard of living in Ireland and in Britain. All of us must confess that one of the attractions for the unemployed people in this country is the wages and the relatively high standard of living in Britain. One of the things we have to fight against in order to prevent emigration and one of the things we must do to keep our population is to ensure that we will have a standard of living that will be more comparable with the standard in Britain.

By 1970, the gross national product per head in Ireland will be £360. In Britain, in 1961, it was £510. If they are going to increase their gross national product the same as we are, by four or five per cent per annum, it will mean that we can never catch up with them. We need to make an even greater effort than Britain and the way we can do so is to develop our industries and to increase our industrial production.

It seems to me that it did not need a tremendous effort under the first five year plan to achieve a national increase in gross national product of 4 per cent and I ask why it is that our target is still 4 per cent between now and 1970. I think it is accepted that if one wants to attain a certain target, one raises one's sights. Is there not a danger that all sections of the community may be complacent in the knowledge that we can get an average increase of four per cent up to 1970? It is true to say that the target set for the First Programme was achieved in a pretty easy manner.

If we are to do all the things the Taoiseach said we should do, all the things we can do in the coming years, it must be admitted that there has to be a change of policy. The Taoiseach never expanded on the remark he made —I think it was last year—that Government policy envisaged a shift to the left. He never explained what he meant by "left". He said today that he would go straight ahead and that he would not deviate to right or left. I must confess that in another part of his speech I got some encouragement that there would be a change in policy, especially in so far as industry is concerned.

It seems obvious that a change of policy is needed even with regard to the development of industry and industrial production. There certainly is a need for change as far as agriculture is concerned. I do not think we have ever heard an encouraging speech from a Minister for Agriculture as far as agriculture is concerned. I do not think there has been any encouraging reference to agriculture in any of the Central Bank reports. We are told this year that there has been no improvement in agricultural production. I am sure the Taoiseach, being an urban man like myself, has often asked himself what is wrong. I have given my view on agriculture on many occasions. I freely admit that the amount of assistance provided for agriculture this year and in recent years has been pretty generous. However, there is no evidence that the Government have asked themselves whether that money is being applied in the right direction.

The Taoiseach said today that schemes for grants and loans were not being availed of by many farmers. I think I know the reason as far as the small farmer is concerned. I think the Taoiseach will understand this phrase. The reason is that the small farmer has not the starting money. There are some people who get money who do not really need it. These schemes are meant to help those who cannot afford to help themselves. If proportionately more money were given to the small farmers, that would be a great incentive to them not alone to stay on the land but to increase production. So long as the present system continues, whereby the man with plenty of money can get the bulk of the grants, we will not be assisting the farmer who really needs assistance.

Somebody said recently that prosperity will not come to this country simply by our wishing it. Certainly, I do not think it will come if we continue to use old methods. We have described both programmes for economic expansion as forecasts. I do not know what sort of document is to be published over the week-end. I hope it is some sort of a plan, a document in which our industrialists and public representatives will be told how this plan is to be implemented and what new changes there will be in agriculture and industry.

In the Blue Paper on the Second Programme, we were told: "The Government can only assist, guide and persuade." In part of his speech today I think the Taoiseach recognised that the Government will have to be a little stronger than that. I do not think it is sufficient for the Government to say that certain inducements and help are available. The Government must go further for the sake of the people depending for their livelihood on employment in industry. If private enterprise do not avail of the generosity of the Government, then the Government have a responsibility.

This is not the first time the Taoiseach has heard that from this side of the House. We believe more decisive Government action is necessary. We have always believed in the further extension of public enterprise. The present Minister for Industry and Commerce never seemed to be very enthusiastic for such an extension. The Taoiseach, at the beginning of his career as Minister for Industry and Commerce, was certainly very enthusiastic for public enterprise and did a tremendous amount of good work.

There has been a lot of talk in recent times about economic planning. It is rather heartening for us, but rather sad that it has come so late. There seems to be now from both sides of the House a lot of lip service paid to the idea of economic planning. But it was anathema to the Ministers of Fianna Fáil some years ago. Indeed, the Tánaiste said when public enterprise was mentioned by the former Deputy Larkin, that when he heard that phrase, he wanted to go for his gun.

That would be a very belligerent observation for the Minister for Health to make.

Surely everybody associates him with belligerency? However, what the Taoiseach said encourages us that it is the intention that public enterprise will be operated in such a way that it will co-operate with private enterprise. I think the Taoiseach knows there is a necessity for a further extension of public enterprise here. We are facing different problems now from those we faced in the past three or four decades. We trust that the Taoiseach's declaration is not just another by-election speech.

I doubt if that is a live issue in either Roscommon or Leitrim.

I will bet it is. I think the Taoiseach would travel a lot of that constituency before finding a sizeable factory there. If the people of that constituency are to be kept there, it will be necessary for the Government to ensure there will be established, either by public enterprise alone or in co-operation with private enterprise, something to keep them there. That is not peculiar to those counties. If people have to go to Dublin or the cities of Great Britain, the Government and all of us have a responsibility. I welcome the concern the Taoiseach seems to have in regard to the resettlement of people who are unemployed, and particularly those who cannot get a living in rural Ireland. Those people in recent years have been nobody's children. Nobody seemed to be concerned for them. Their first reaction was to go across to Great Britain for employment. The labour exchange charged with the responsibility of looking after these people and finding them jobs have been absolutely negligent in that regard ever since they were established. There has been no effort by these agencies to ensure that people from the rural areas and the urban areas were provided with employment, if not in their own county, at least some place near it.

There is now a dramatic change in Irish industry. Over the past 30 years, our industry has been maintained by a system of protection. Now a decision has been made that we will have to prepare ourselves for free trade. There is, as has been forecast by the Committee on Industrial Organisation, a great danger, indeed a certainty, that in many of these industries there will be quite an amount of unemployment on the reduction of tariffs. With the introduction of automation and these new-fangled ideas of organisation and methods, we will find ourselves, unless the establishment of new industries can provide against it, possibly with many more unemployed. That is the sort of situation that we have got to prepare for to ensure that those persons who may be disemployed in industries that will suffer through the reduction of tariffs will be resettled in some other industries.

The statement of the Taoiseach to-day is important, that he will employ public enterprise to co-operate with private enterprise in order to establish industries where they are necessary. The Taoiseach or the Minister for Industry and Commerce was rather pessimistic some time ago about the recommendations made by the Committee on Industrial Organisation to certain industries. One or the other— I think it was the Minister for Industry and Commerce—complained that these industries that were being stripped of their tariff protection in preparation for free trade were not acting in accordance with the recommendations that were made by the Committee. I should like to know from the Taoiseach what action it is proposed to take in respect of these industries if they do not attempt to comply with the recommendations made by the CIO or if they do not attempt to avail of the assistance, financial and otherwise, that the Government have offered to them.

I said at the beginning of my speech that, despite the statistics the Taoiseach quoted in order to show that there had been economic progress in this country, there were many areas which this prosperity did not reach. It is important that we should maintain what we have in the matter of amenities for industry in many of the places where it now appears they are being allowed to die. There has been great emphasis laid in recent times on the establishment of industry west of the Shannon and generous grants over and above what would be given in other parts of the country were given to those who were prepared to establish industries west of the Shannon or in what might be described as undeveloped areas.

The Minister for Industry and Commerce in his Estimate speech showed that industry to some degree had been established there but the Minister and the Taoiseach and the members of the Government should be concerned about what have been traditional industrial towns. It must be remembered that in certain of the underdeveloped areas not alone is there a problem of the building and establishment of the factory but there is the problem of providing amenities. This is an expensive venture. It is worthwhile, I suppose, for the districts in which the industry is established. In trying to help these underdeveloped areas, other areas of the country should not be neglected. There are many of the provincial towns in the south, in the east and in the midlands that appear to be neglected, to which industry does not seem to have been attracted but they represent assets which should be valued, not alone by the people who live in these towns, but by the Government as representing the interests of the people.

In provincial towns where there are all these amenities, schools, churches, footpaths, electricity, gas, and all these things that go to make a town; the function of the Government is to ensure that these will be utilised. It costs quite an amount of money to build all these things, to instal all these services. I want to say positively, as the Minister for Industry and Commerce said recently, as a spokesman for Fine Gael said some time ago, that we should not be dependent on the efforts of private enterprise in this country. If we had not the initiative of those who ventured into public enterprise the unemployment problem would be far greater than it is. If we are to be absolutely dependent on private enterprise we will be faced with much more emigration and much more unemployment in the years to come. Where private enterprise does not do the job which we know can be done and where private enterprise is unwilling to do the job, the Government have a moral obligation to step in and to ensure, by employing public enterprise and by expending greater money in public enterprise, that industries will be established and that those who in other circumstances would be forced to emigrate or who would be rendered unemployed, are given good and gainful employment.

The Taoiseach talked about the cost of living and about what he called, I think, the catchcry of the Labour Party.

"Shibboleth" was the word.

"Shibboleth"—that was the word. He said the Labour Party shibboleth was price control. I do not know. I recognise in the attitude of the Minister for Industry and Commerce, who is responsible for prices, a complacency. I do not go along at all with this idea of the Taoiseach and the Minister for Industry and Commerce that by dint of competition prices will reach their own level. The Minister for Industry and Commerce said he would not use the price control machinery that was available to him unless there was an emergency. The introduction of the turnover tax was somewhat of an emergency. The cost of living index figure rose by 12 points between May, 1963, and May, 1964, and that was the biggest increase ever in this country. It represented an increase in the cost of living of seven per cent, 3½ per cent of which was caused by the introduction of the turnover tax. The Taoiseach himself admitted today here that 1½ or one per cent was due to some of the provisions of this year's Budget. I do not know whether the Taoiseach wanted to state it positively but I want now to refute the impression that seems to be spread abroad by persons who have not much sympathy with the trade union movement that wages were responsible for the increase in the cost of living. I think the Government must take the major part of the responsibility for the increase in the cost of living which has occurred between May, 1963, and May, 1964, and that is due, as I have said, to the proposals which were contained in the Budget of 1963, the turnover tax and the proposals contained in the Budget of 1964.

The Minister, as I have said, refuses to control prices but he has controlled certain commodities. There was a proposal that the price of sugar be increased. The Minister took steps to investigate the increase that was proposed and discovered that it was exorbitant. If a reputable—and I say "reputable" deliberately — organisation like the Irish Sugar Company can chance its arm at an increase which the Government consider to be exorbitant, is it not only logical to assume that others who would be less responsible than the Irish Sugar Company would also take a chance in trying to implement increases that were not at all justified?

The Taoiseach talked about competition bringing prices down to a certain level. I do not see, even though it was investigated by the Fair Trade Commission, that there is any competition in petrol. There is no competition in cigarettes. They all seem to agree on the same price. There does not seem to be any competition in regard to the price of meat in the various cities and towns. It may vary from town to town but in one given town the price of meat always appears to be the same. Similarly in regard to bread and many other commodities, especially foodstuffs that one could mention, they always seem to arrive at the same price.

The Minister for Industry and Commerce says that if he gets any evidence to the effect that people have joined together in order to fix prices he will charge them under the Restrictive Trade Practices Act. These things can be done not in any air of conspiracy but there is an agreement amongst all these people that the price of this or that commodity should be at a certain level. The Minister for Industry and Commerce would not be doing any great harm, as the Taoiseach appears to think he would be if the prices of certain important commodities, commodities that are regarded as being of absolute necessity to families, were investigated. A tremendous amount of good would be done. The fears and suspicions of the public would be allayed by these investigations and particularly, more important, if these investigations were carried out in public, because the public should be satisfied that they are not being fleeced. There have been many allegations about overcharging, about exorbitant increases and I do not blame the public for using extravagant terms at times when it appears to them that the Government are just sitting complacently by and doing nothing about the situation.

Despite what the Minister for Social Welfare said here today by way of replies to a Fianna Fáil Deputy, I do not think the Government have a good record in regard to Social Welfare. I know the Taoiseach can trot out to me, as the Minister trotted out to the Deputy here today, the rate of pensions and the rate of allowances in 1957 and the rate of pensions and allowances as they are now or as they will be in August of this year. Our attitude to social welfare is still the same as it has been for many years, that is, that this form of assistance is merely an allowance to alleviate poverty or distress, and I have heard that in very specific terms from a past Parliamentary Secretary to the Minister for Social Welfare from the Fianna Fáil Party. They try to give the impression that this is just a form of assistance and that the people who receive this money have some other money as well.

We must make up our minds in regard to all these social welfare benefits that an allowance should be given that would permit the recipient to have a reasonable standard of living. We can trot out that the old age pensioner gets 35/- a week; the unemployed man gets so many shillings a week, and the person who is sick gets so many shillings a week, and make play upon all that. However, I say the Fianna Fáil Government have failed in their policy of social welfare because the increases may appear to be spectacular but, despite the boasts of the Taoiseach as to the success of the First Programme for Economic Expansion, despite his boasts as to the economic progress in the last year or two, the Government are spending less on social welfare.

We were always advised by the various Ministers for Social Welfare in any Fianna Fáil Government that, if tax revenue were such as to allow it, these benefits would be increased to a reasonable level. The fact is that tax revenue has increased to a certain degree but a fair proportion has not been devoted to social welfare. As a matter of fact, ever since Fianna Fáil came back into power in 1957 there has been a smaller percentage of tax revenue spent on social welfare.

We have delayed for too long in regard to the promise that was made two or three years ago that we would have an improved health service. Even the members of the Fianna Fáil Party must recognise from the evidence of their supporters that there is a crying need for an improvement in the health services. I do not think the Taoiseach mentioned the policy the Government have on health but the sooner it is announced the better. The Labour Party have announced what their policy is in respect of health and what their aims are in respect of the health services. The Fianna Fáil Party should now say what they propose in regard to the health services so that these faulty and inadequate services we have will be improved.

To put it mildly, the Taoiseach was not entirely fair when he spoke about housing. As stated by Deputy Dillon in the course of this debate, there were more houses built in 1954, 1955 and 1956 by the inter-Party Government than there were by the Fianna Fáil Government in 1957, 1958, 1959 and 1960. The Taoiseach accused the inter-Party Government of dispersing the tradesmen. That is not entirely correct either. In the beginning of his term of office Deputy Blaney as Minister for Local Government was very lethargic in administering the housing policy. It may have been due to his inexperience. I have no hesitation in saying he appears to be a competent Minister now but his lack of experience from 1957 to 1960 is no excuse for the Taoiseach and the members of the Government falling down on the job of housing in the initial years of their present period of Government.

One of the things that are crying out to be solved is the housing problem. It seems to me we can find tradesmen to build factories and offices or to renovate factories and offices in a short time but we do not seem to be able to find them to tackle the job of housing. One of the main reasons for that is that nobody has yet said to the building trade: "We can offer you a secure job for a period." The Taoiseach went near to saying it today but he did not give any specific assurance to those who are engaged in the building trade. There would have to be some form of declaration by the Minister for Local Government or by some spokesman of the Government to the effect that they will have x years of constant employment. It may be they have that sort of constant employment in the cities but as far as the provincial towns are concerned, a man is taken on for three months; the next thing he is not wanted and he is sacked and he comes to Dublin or over to England. The dispersal of tradesmen is one of the problems as far as house building is concerned. I do not think it is fair and it certainly is not right for the Taoiseach to allege that the dispersal of the Tradesmen was caused by the failure of the Minister for Local Government in respect of housing in 1956.

There is only one other thing I want to mention in conclusion. The Taoiseach waxed eloquent to-day about the Irish language. I have no criticism of him on that point. He may not appear to have a great knowledge of the language; I suppose he is not peculiar in that respect in this country or in this House. I do not know who briefed him to-day. He alleged that in the last general election, Fine Gael were in combination with the Labour Party on the matter of the revival of the Irish language. We were not, and we have never played politics with the Irish language. We have never appealed to the people for votes on the basis of our language policy.

I hope that the suggestion is not that Fine Gael did.

I am speaking for the Labour Party and what I am doing is refuting the suggestion by the Taoiseach that we were in combination with any Party. Our policy on the Irish language is contained in the documents outlining the Labour Party's policy on education which the Taoiseach lauded about this time last year.

We have a written policy on the Irish language. Fianna Fáil have not. They make various speeches about it from time to time. The Taoiseach accused other people of playing politics with it. I think if any Party should examine its conscience about playing politics with the question of the revival of Irish, it is the Fianna Fáil Party.

As far as the Irish language is concerned, irrespective of the report of the Commission on the Irish Language, and irrespective of the White Paper the Government propose to publish, they say, in a very short time, I think the most representative opinion that can be got as to methods of reviving the Irish language can be got in this House. Far too many of these decisions are left to other people, to different Commissions many of whom—I do not say this in regard to the Commission on the Irish Language—have a vested interest in the subject on which they are asked to report. There is a divergence of opinion among the 144 Deputies in Dáil Éireann and I think the Taoiseach will get an opinion from the House that the Irish language should live and he will also get various opinions and I think good views, as to the methods that should be adopted to ensure that it will live.

The Taoiseach's speech to-day reminded me of the conjurer at the children's party producing white rabbits from his hat and pausing to receive the ooh-s and aah-s of his delighted but deluded audience. Just as the conjurer depends on the deftness and swiftness of his hands to create an illusion, so the Taoiseach to-day depended on half truths and extravagant statements to create the illusion and delusions with which his speech abounded. What are the facts? We heard to-day from the Taoiseach what he called a success story regarding the First Programme for Economic Expansion. I suggest that programme was little more than a myth and a figment of the Taoiseach's imagination. There is not a country in Western Europe that has not in the past seven years achieved what is called economic growth. Every country in Western Europe has been producing more; its economy has been growing. If we were not in some way part of the stream of development, our situation would be very bad indeed. We need not even have had a Government for the past seven years and we would have achieved the economic growth we did achieve.

The effort we have witnessed here for the past few years of the leader of the Government trying to create the illusion that he achieved something! He achieved nothing except to set down on paper what any statistician knew would be the result achieved by ordinary economic growth in a stated period of time. The Taoiseach is a political conjurer, a political bluffer and that is his modus operandi. He has always been the person who talks of programmes, blueprints and so on.

In Opposition, he talked about the certainty of creating 100,000 new jobs. It was necessary for him when he became leader of a Government to appear to produce a programme. It was very easy for him, in the production of that programme, to stipulate a figure for economic growth which, in fact, was already being achieved in most, if not in all countries of Europe, as well as in this country. The only difference is that in the case of every other country in Western Europe, the economic growth is much greater than ours. But, of course, if one mentions that, the Taoiseach will hold up his hands in horror and say that it is national sabotage. It is nothing but the truth and it is surely time there was a realistic stocktaking of what, in fact, is going on in this country.

There is talk of the prosperity we are supposed to have. It is an interesting fact that the first publication of what is called the Second Programme for Economic Expansion took place during the summer recess of Dáil Éireann and, when that Programme was studied, it was pointed out that it seemed to represent the figures which the economists attached to OEEC thought possible in view of the slow rate of economic growth in Ireland; it seemed to set these down as targets, but did not provide any means or state any machinery by which these targets would be achieved.

The Taoiseach issued a statement about the beginning of last August and he said the details would be published in February. Everybody waited in February, but the machinery or the details for the Second Programme did not appear. They did not appear in March, or in April, or in May. In June came the first reference to the publication of the details for the Second Programme for Economic Expansion. That reference was made at the Fianna Fáil by-election convention in Roscommon. Is it coincidence that next Saturday, just before the people vote in the Roscommon by-election, the details for the accomplishment of the targets in the Second Programme will be published? I have no doubt that this is more of the political jockeying engendered by the hope of a political Party endeavouring to create a political impression.

What kind of a Party does the Deputy think we are?

I have to be parliamentary and the Parliamentary Secretary should not invite me to commit a breach of order. I should like to suggest now that when the Taoiseach comes into this House, as he did today, to sneer at Fine Gael and at the Labour Party in relation to policy and so forth, and to jeer, it would be a very salutary experience for him to seek first the mote in his own political eye. I suggest that anyone listening to his speech here to-day, having heard his statement that it would be a statement of policy, would be concerned indeed to know where in that speech there lay a single political principle. He started off to undo something that he did last year. How well we remember it. Only 15 months ago the Taoiseach declared that the time had come for himself and his Party to move sharply to the left. We must assume that the Taoiseach and his Party moved sharply to the left in the past 15 months, though the workers and those who have to face the effects of rising prices may well wonder what the real significance of the action was, remembering that the Taoiseach started off today by declaring that he and his Government were going to proceed without deviating either to the right or to the left.

I wonder was he thinking of other days and other people in this country. I remember as a young boy reading a statement made in this House by a member of the House long since dead. He declared it to be a principle of the Government of which he was a member, when there were enemies to the right and enemies to the left, to keep to the middle of the road. Today the Taoiseach said that, so far as his policy is concerned, he and his Party are not going to deviate either to the right or to the left. Does that mean that the sharp step to the left is now to be retraced or was it just a feint to the left and, having feinted, are they now going to step sharply back to the right? The only way in which one can get back from the left is by taking a sharp step to the right.

Anyone can read the Taoiseach's speech from beginning to end and find it very difficult indeed to discover any political philosophy. There is a good deal of talk about the aims of the Government. I think Deputy Corish today described the position very accurately. Everyone who is in politics, every political Party engaged in political effort, has as its aim the prosperity of the country. But that is not a political philosophy. That is the fair pursuit and the aim of all worthwhile political effort. The Taoiseach's speech today was a collection of statements of what he hoped might be achieved, not of course now, and not tomorrow, but sometime in the future. Will it be achieved as part of a clear defined policy or is it something that it is hoped may come about as a result of the stipulated and accepted economic growth? I do not know, and I do not believe anyone in the Fianna Fáil Party now knows, what Fianna Fáil really stands for. They stand for good times. They stand for achieving the aim of everyone here—prosperity for the people.

Good times and lower taxes—that is what Fine Gael promised.

How Fianna Fáil propose to achieve these things is a matter of considerable doubt. The Taoiseach jeered at Fine Gael and said that we have recently discovered policy and so on. He is entitled to make whatever political capital he wishes out of that but I state here and now, as a member of the Fine Gael Party, that I make no apology for the fact that our Party recently had a full stocktaking of its views with regard to the present and the future of Ireland. Why should we not do that?

In the light of Waterford and Cork, why should you not?

Deputy Corry may laugh, but I say to Deputy Corry and to those who think that retaining a seat in this House is a worthwhile political achievement, to those who test the success of political effort by keeping their seats here, that, irrespective of who has been in office, or who has done this and who has done that, in the past 80 years the population of this country has dropped by 1,000,000 people. In the past seven years, with all this talk about prosperity and progress, emigration has totalled a quarter of a million. Is that progress? Surely the leader of any political Party who looked with complacency on a situation like that is a man temporising and not prepared to face facts.

I agree with Deputy Corish as to what constitutes progress. We make progress only when we end emigration and when we have a situation in which this country can maintain a growing population in remunerative employment. Until that is achieved, we are not making progress. We are codding ourselves and codding the people if we take the figures produced by the Central Statistics Office and go about saying that only 20,000 left this year whereas the year before 25,000 left.

And 50,000 under the Coalition. The Deputy does not like the truth.

I am not suggesting that any political Party who have had responsibility here in the past 40 years has achieved anything worthwhile in regard to the target of maintaining here a growing population in remunerative employment. They have not. The fact is that over the past 80 years the net result has been, according to the census returns over the ten or 11 year period, that our population dropped from 3.8 millions in 1881 to 2.8 millions in 1961. If that is progress, it is progress backwards. Indeed, when I think of those figures and the Fianna Fáil election posters in Roscommon with the heading "March with the Nation", I wonder is it an invitation to the people of Roscommon to march with the nation to Bootle, Birmingham or Manchester.

At least the posters were printed in Roscommon.

That is a cheap little crack. I wonder who would print them in Roscommon?

You are right, too.

I mention that fact in relation to the Taoiseach's reference to what had been concerning us. Of course the Fine Gael Party have been concerned with whether the tried methods, the tried policies, should not now be reviewed. If despite all that has been done over 40 years, we have not yet reached a situation in which we can encourage or persuade our people by the possibility of remunerative work at home to stay at home, then we have failed and there has to be a new outlook and new thinking on these matters. We are doing that in Fine Gael and we will continue to do it, whether the Taoiseach jeers at us or not, and in so doing, we are endeavouring at least to fulfil an important public need.

The Taoiseach went on in his speech, which I regarded as unbecoming of the Taoiseach in a debate of this kind, to make almost a personal attack on the Leader of the Opposition, obviously because of his recent references to the Verolme Dockyard in Cork. The function of the Leader of the Opposition is to act as a watchdog of the people and he would not be discharging his responsibility properly if he did not do so and what he raised in regard to Verolme was properly raised.

Improperly raised.

I am not going to be deflected from what I intend to say by the Parliamentary Secretary.

I am only correcting the Deputy when he makes an incorrect statement.

Order, Deputy O'Higgins.

It was properly raised.

With incorrect figures.

Why should the Irish people not know and get full information if it appears that the money raised from them in taxation is being used for a purpose which on the record appears to end in a profit for somebody outside the country? Why should that not be raised? Are we to have the situation that the Leader of the Opposition or any other Deputy is to be intimidated from raising these things by the suggestion that it is sabotage?

Yes, the way in which he did it was sabotage. Why did he not seek the information before raising it?

I can remember in this House when the country was younger, weaker and more inexperienced, in the face of intimidation and mob rule, a Government were trying to govern here, to harness the Shannon and encourage our farmers to grow beet and trying to deal with the dairy industry and where were the people who now "tut-tut" about a reference to Verolme? What were they calling the Shannon and the beet factory and the Dairy Disposal Company? Just white elephants. They went around trying to get the people to believe we were moving into a bog of bankruptcy because a Government, at the instance of Deputy McGilligan, proceeded to put £20 million into harnessing the Shannon. Then they talk about national sabotage. In my view, the Leader of the Opposition did a public service in directing public attention to what went on in Verolme and to let it be known to anyone coming into the country to start an industry that he could come in and would be welcome and would get every assistance but could not play ducks and drakes with our money.

You say that happened? I thought it was refuted by the Minister for Industry and Commerce for all time.

I did not think so.

And you were surprised you lost Cork.

I certainly hope that as long as there is an Opposition here the examination of matters of this kind will be done without fear or favour, that there will not be an effort at intimidating or silencing people from doing their duty and no "tut-tuts" by the Taoiseach or Deputy O'Malley will prevent me from speaking.

The Taoiseach had other things to say in the course of his speech. I should like to say for the record, that when this Dáil was established after the Treaty, when the Cumann na nGaedheal Government first assumed responsibility, a national language policy was embarked upon, associated particularly with the then Minister for Finance and carried out by the then Minister for Education. It became the national revival policy for the Irish language. When the Fianna Fáil Party came into office in 1932, they carried on precisely the same policy, with precisely the same aim and precisely the same methods. That revival policy and the methods of carrying it out were certainly up to 1961, the accepted national policy in relation to the language. It was that because it had been initiated by the Cumann na nGaedheal Government and carried on by the Fianna Fáil Government.

In 1961, as a result of consideration and study, Fine Gael questioned whether that policy was in fact achieving the desired result. We came to the conclusion that it was not and that the compulsory Irish policy, as it was called, should be modified and that the desired result should be sought by other means, which it is not necessary to detail at the moment. That action, by the Fine Gael Party, three years ago started the first re-thinking on the Irish language question for close on 40 years. It is only in the past two or three years that people in different sectors throughout the country have begun to question whether the machinery and ways accepted automatically up to this are proving successful.

The opportunity for this new thinking, and I hope it will be fruitful, was given in the past three years by the action of this Party in raising this matter. It is in the light of that background that I want to raise here the action of the Taoiseach today when, in the course of his speech, he asserted that we in Fine Gael were anti-national and therefore reprehensible in our attitude to the Irish language. He said that of a Party that is led by a man who has a fluent knowledge of Irish. He said that as a person who I believe has no knowledge of Irish and, in my view, in saying that, he was guilty of gross impertinence. The policy which has existed for the past 40 years was started by the political predecessors of Fine Gael. If we question what is being done now, surely the Taoiseach or anyone else associated with him in politics could at least assume that, even if our views are in error, they are bona fide views.

Why should it be assumed, if we suggest that the present methods have not succeeded and that alternative methods should be tried, that we are anti-Irish and anti-national in saying so? I think that was unworthy and I would like to object to that attitude as emphatically as possible. We are concerned about the fact that, despite all that has been done, the language revival movement has slipped each year. We are concerned that the lack of progress has been due to the fact that there is not the public enthusiasm for the language which is necessary. We are concerned that it appears to be true that the methods of teaching and pushing the language which have been in operation in the past 40 years have not been successful. We now put forward as an alternative that an effort should be made to embark on a new policy aimed at encouraging the revival of the language. We put that view forward in a bona fide manner and we should not be accused of being anti-national for ventilating these views.

Whether we are correctly described by the Taoiseach or not, I would like to assure you, a Leas-Cheann Comhairle, that we will continue to ventilate what we believe to be correct.

The Taoiseach also referred to the great things that were going to happen in the future in relation to health and social services. It is an extraordinary thing about Fianna Fáil, and it has always been so, that there is always going to be something wonderful to-morrow. We have had, over the past 30 years that Fianna Fáil have been in office in this country, a plethora of to-morrows. Good things are always around the corner. If the people only put them back some time, somehow something wonderful will happen.

I do not believe the present Fianna Fáil Government have any concern or idea of what they are going to do in relation to health services. They have no policy. It is because they have no policy that they have set up a Select Committee of this House to work out a policy for them. That Committee has been sitting for two and a half years and, despite what the Minister for Health said when concluding his Estimate, I do not believe any progress has been made. The only submission that has been made to that Health Services Committee was submitted by me a number of months ago setting out in detail a health policy. I do not believe any other worthwhile proposal has come forward.

When the Taoiseach spoke about the wonderful health services we are to have, I would like to ask him what they are going to be, what form they will take and on what they will be based. Are we to accept what I think we must accept, that in relation to health services, we must not be behind any country in Europe? If so, we must accept that a general health service must be provided with free choice of doctor for the bulk of the population. If we accept that, we accept the views I have advocated and the Labour Party have advocated for a number of years. If we continue to carry on with the present health policy, whereby we divide the people into first-class and second-class citizens, whereby we give to one section of the people the services of a named doctor and give the bulk of the people nothing, we will continue to be out of step with every other country in Western Europe. These are the things I mean when I speak of policy. The Taoiseach's speech only referred to the things that are going to be achieved.

The Taoiseach also referred today to the Common Market. That is not now being talked about so much but it is revived from time to time by the Taoiseach, and he assured us to-day that everything he was hoping for, all the targets he had in mind, were based on the assumption that this country would be in the Common Market in 1970. Is that true or not? It is extraordinary to find the same man who postured here in this House in relation to his concern for the Irish language talk about this country going into Europe in the next five or six years. The two things do not work out.

If it is inevitable that we are going into Europe in 1970, then the Ireland we know now and the things we prize and value now we will have to put behind us. Maybe that is inevitable. It certainly is if Britain goes in. I do not think it is something to hang out the bunting about or wave the flags. It would be a very sad day for this country. Poor and all as we are, and peculiar and all as we are, at least we are distinctive as a nation, even though we do not all speak the Irish language. But it would be a very distressing day when the distinctiveness of our people became swallowed up in a huge European mammoth. If it is to happen, then, as far as this question of language is concerned, I would imagine the correct thing to be doing would be to concentrate on more of our people, especially our young people, acquiring continental languages.

In that regard, I do not believe there has been any serious thinking by the Government. I do not believe they know what is going to happen. I do not blame them for not knowing it. I have little doubt that when the Taoiseach talks about going into the Common Market in 1970, he is taking a deep breath. He just does not know what is going to happen by the end of this decade. When he says we are proceeding with our application anyway, again he is only talking. I do not believe he really appreciates what he is saying. Would he answer the question—it is a perfectly simple question —will we go into the Common Market if Britain declines to do so? I have no doubt that the Taoiseach would not care to be asked that question. I have little doubt if he is asked it, he would not wish to answer it. I am certain that if he had to answer it, he must say we would not. Therefore, in relation to the Common Market, I have little doubt that whether we go in or stay out will probably be decided in the autumn of this year as a result of the British general election. It is then we can shape our policy.

That is as much as I want to say except to conclude with what I started with, by suggesting that the Taoiseach's speech today was primarily a political operation. It was designed to create the illusion of progress whereas, in fact, the actual condition of the country does not justify what he was saying. In the seven years since this Government went back into office, if progress is to be judged in terms of maintaining a larger population in remunerative employment, there has not been progress. We have in that period seen a quarter of a million people emigrate: we have fewer people at work than there were seven years ago: and the unemployment figure still stands at the best part of 50,000. That, in my judgment, is not indicative of progress. I have no doubt that for some people there may be more money in circulation, for some people times may be better, but as a nation we have not yet reached the stage where we can truly say we have started to advance.

I was rather amused to hear Deputy O'Higgins ask whether we were going to the left or the right. I can assure him that the road we are on is all right and the people are satisfied with it. He also told us about the full stocktaking his Party had recently. Is it any wonder? In view of the double "funt" their policy got from the people of Kildare and Cork, is it any wonder they have a full stocktaking? They will have a hell of a stocktaking after Wednesday. I can assure them of that.

Will you take a bet?

You had not a "fluke" left after the last two rounds. If you want to have a go at this, you can have it. But for the increase in wages, the poor devil would not be there. Deputy O'Higgins had the neck to talk about beet. Let him read his Leader's policy on beet. Let him see their actions the moment they came into power. I remember the first year those gentlemen came into power as an inter-Party Government. After the usual fixing of costings for the year, we went down to meet the Sugar Company. We were met with a letter signed by the then Minister for Industry and Commerce, Deputy Morrissey, and Deputy Dillon, as Minister for Agriculture. Its terms ran like this: The previous Government have been far too generous with the farming community, particularly in the price of agricultural crops and beet. We will not allow any increase whatever in the price of beet for the coming season. The result of that was a reduction in the acreage of beet. We had to import 75,000 tons of foreign sugar at £12 per ton higher than the best sugar produced in the four factories here. That first step cost the Irish householder £900,000.

Time went on. They got another chance. Again, the same evil hand appeared in 1956 when two of them went over to make a fresh agreement with Britain and came back with a levy of £16 a ton on Irish sugar exported to Britain. For the three years following, although the Irish farmer was prepared to expand his industry, he found himself met at every step by a rationing of beet. That £16 a ton we had to pay on our sugar exports went to pay an extra price to British colonialists exporting sugar to Britain.

We have talk about emigration. The first time the people elected an inter-Party Government, they borrowed to such an extent that the repayment of their loans came to over £6 million a year for their three years of office and they could not show one extra man in employment for that. The figure for unemployment had trebled during their three years. They cannot deny it. Then they talk about emigration and about employment for the people. One need only look at the sabotage that Deputy Dillon carried out, right from the first time when a little thread industry was introduced at Westport. That was the subject of 15 questions during 1935 and 1936 in this House. It was alleged that the dye was running into the thread; that the thread could not be used in sewing machines. That thread industry is still going, despite the 15 attempts made by Deputy Dillon to sabotage it.

Then we had what happened in regard to Cork the other day. There was an immediate rush for vengeance against the workers of Cork who had turned him down at a by-election. There was an immediate attempt to drive one thousand men out of employment and leave them nothing but the emigrant ship.

When I came into this House in 1927 and looked across at Cumann na nGaedheal, as they were then, the then Cumann na nGaedheal Deputy made an appeal to know would they give a subsidy of 25 per cent of the wages to enable that dockyard to carry on. That was refused. Deputies can find that in the Official Report. The 400 workers who were working in that dockyard then had to face the emigrant ship and that dockyard was closed down.

The nation was left in such a position that during the emergency I saw one ship brought into Cork holed in the side, brought out through Cork Harbour, pulled up in front of the two dockyards, the old Passage dockyard and the Rushbrooke dockyard, and the hole was filled with cement to enable the ship to get out of the port. That was the condition of affairs they left after them.

Because today there are 1,000 young Irishmen, who otherwise would have to face the emigrant ship, in decent employment in that dockyard and because they considered that the Government that had put that dockyard there and given them employment were more worthy of support than this mixum-gatherum over there, and because they gave the order of the boot to Fine Gael in Cork, we had the exhibition that we had last week where they endeavoured to sabotage that industry.

If we are to go ahead, if we are to get employment for our people in this country then I would ask Fine Gael to give us, at least, the charity of their silence while we are doing it. Let us get, at least, the charity of their silence.

There was another industry in Cork —Irish Steel Holdings Limited. It started as a private firm. It went bankrupt. I, as the representative of the constituency, had to come up here and appeal to the then Minister for Finance for money to get that industry going. I was not met with the answer that was given about Rushbrooke Dockyard in 1927. The Minister told me that they would see what could be done. The money was put into the industry. I think the amount was £250,000.

A Cobh man was put in charge of it. He increased employment in the industry from 200 up to 600. Then the clammy hand came along again. Two raw materials are required for the manufacture of steel. One is steel billets; the other is scrap. It is essential to have a proportion of steel billets in order to allow scrap to be worked in in order to produce good steel. The first order that was given by that inter-Party Government as soon as they got short of cash was that billets were not to be used. The billets were stopped. Then they found that first grade scrap was costing too much and another order was sent down that they were not to use first grade scrap. That had to be sold outside the country to the foreigner because they wanted money. Any old thing, apparently, would do for the manufacture of steel in Haulbowline. The net result was that the general manager, who had raised the industry from a position where it employed 200 persons to a point where it was employing 600 persons, packed up and left. On the day the Coalition Government cleared out there were 350 persons employed in the industry whereas there were 600 employed when they came in.

There are the facts about industry. There is no one here who can give them as well as I can. That is the history of that Party as far as stopping emigration is concerned. That is the history of that Party as far as getting employment for the people is concerned.

Then we have them talking about housing. We all know what the position was here in 1956. There was not a contractor to any local authority who had got his money for six months before that. We in Cork had to go with our hat in our hand down to the Munster and Leinster Bank and borrow £300,000 to pay the money that was due to us by the Government in order to pay for housing. We know the instructions that were given by Deputy Sweetman to the Department of Local Government. When a body of civil servants in any Department adopt a certain line of action, it takes quite a few years to get them out of it. That is why there was a slowing down in housing during 1957. First of all, all the debts had to be cleared. Then there was the situation of the civil servant in the Custom House being told by the Minister: "Hold that up for a few months till we see if we can get some money." That was the attitude that held up housing here. I am proud of the position in my constituency as regards employment. It would be very hard to find an idle man today in the town of Youghal, in the town of Midleton or in the town of Cobh.

Look for them in Birmingham and Bootle.

There is the project starting in Cobh on 1st October that will give employment to 100 men at first and will eventually employ 700 people. Not one of those Deputies over there can say he started something to give employment to even ten men in his constituency. Yet they talk here about the flight from the land. There is only one way of getting the people to remain on the land and that is by finding industries that will give employment to the men on the land. Despite the attempted sabotage of the beet industry, the acreage of beet went up enormously in three or four years. Today there are factories operating on the processing of vegetables. These factories will give an enormous amount of employment not alone in the factory itself but on the land. They will give a gross income of roughly £11 an acre to the farmer growing the crop. These are the requirements for keeping people on the land.

A couple of weeks ago when I heard about the full stocktaking that was going on in Fine Gael, I was afraid we would lose the Leader of the Opposition. It would be a sad day for Fianna Fáil the day we lost him. He is a godsend to us any way you take him. Take peat, wheat, beet and milk. On each one of them, he made history: the bob a gallon for milk; the £15 a ton levy on sugar; the loaf produced from Irish wheat. His descriptions of those things in this House, which are there on record, will live forever among the Irish farmers. The fact that he offered the farmers a bob a gallon for five years for their milk will never be forgotten to him. Follow that up with his record on industry and his attitude on finding employment for our people and you have a complete picture, not alone of the Opposition but particularly of its Leader.

When the Taoiseach was giving his long and careful forecast of the future that lay before the country, he used an expression somewhat similar to what Tory leaders used in England last year, that we never had it so good in this country. Perhaps that is so, but I doubt if those who live on unemployment benefit, those who live on old age pensions, able adult people who are expected to exist on less than £2 per week, something less than 6/-per day with which to clothe, feed and comfort themselves and provide themselves with all the necessary things of life, would agree with the Taoiseach that we never had it so good.

If it is true that our economy is booming, that our prospects are wonderful, that we have made great progress within the past three or four years, how is it that in regard to social services, we rank as one of the lowest, if not the lowest in Europe? Surely nobody can boast when an old age pensioner who is in receipt of the maximum benefit gets something in the neighbourhood of 5/- per day to keep him and in the future has prospects that may constitute an increase of something like 4½d. per day or 2/6d. per week? I fail to see how the booming economy is reflected in the amount and the kinds of social welfare benefit doled out under this Government.

The Taoiseach also spoke in connection with housing and indicated that the only reason there was any delay in the progress of housing people was that the local authorities had not made the effort necessary and all that was needed was to send the plans to the Custom House and they would forthwith receive the necessary sanction to proceed. The money was there; the people were anxiously waiting in the Custom House to sanction the plans and to get men into much needed employment, and badly needed houses would be built.

In my constituency of Waterford, we have had with the Department of Local Government for the past eight years a scheme for the building of 108 rural cottages. It is only after repeated deputations from the council composed of our engineers, the secretary and various members that we have finally secured sanction this year to go ahead with the scheme. As a result we have a waiting list at present equal to three if not four times the number of houses we are endeavouring to build. I find it very difficult to go along with the Taoiseach in his cheery attitude in connection with the various Departments under his leadership.

If you examine, as you will if you are endeavouring to build a house under the Small Dwellings Acts, the conditions under which you must make repayments, you will find that over the period of years for which the money is borrowed, you must repay not only the amount borrowed but as much again. Is that progress? Is there exploitation by somebody? Is it not the responsibility of whatever Government are in power to see that people fulfilling the object for which they were created, building homes to shelter their families, are not exploited by the financial interests, the banks, to the extent that their very need to provide shelter for their families and so fulfill their Christian duty is being used to take from them not only what they borrow but double that amount?

I do not know how the Taoiseach can be so complacent, even happy about the housing position. I feel there is a good deal more to be done and wherever progress was made in the past few years and wherever the boom exists in employment, it does not come mainly from the local authority work on building but from the fact that many outside interests are attracted to Ireland for various reasons—not for love of the country —to promote anything in which they see a prospect of a quick cash return. There is a good deal of speculative building, mainly prompted by the boom in the tourist industry. This is not peculiar to Ireland. It is happening throughout the world. Thank God we have a boom in building and in tourism. As a member of the Labour Party, I do not want to decry a single thing this or any other Government have done to improve the position of our people. The Labour group always welcome and endeavour to support any progressive legislation that is being implemented, whether by Fianna Fáil, Fine Gael or any other group that might secure the confidence of the people and take office.

We do not seek political advantage by attempting to decry anything the Government have done but it is very difficult to listen to this rosy picture being painted as if everything in Ireland were blooming, and that nobody should dare say that things are not so. Surely, it is foolish to wax eloquent about the number employed when we know that were it not for the second employment period order, which is being operated, we would have 60,000 unemployed registered at the labour exchanges, and trying to live on less than £2 per week. You could add to that the number of social welfare recipients, including widows and orphans, old age pensioners, and people drawing disablement benefit and, out of the small population that we have here, you will easily find over 100,000 people trying to exist on something like 5/- per day.

The idea of attempting to claim that everything is happy and that the future is so bright that we can almost sit back and relax in the knowledge that everybody in the country is receiving sufficient for his needs, cannot be entertained. We are told that productivity is the keynote. Of course it is. Everybody knows if you can improve production, reduce costs and sell your goods—as you probably will if you can do this—you will improve the economic situation in the country. While Governments can plan economic production and while employers can produce machines to aid production, there is always the human factor of the workers to be taken into account. If increased production achieved by the workers is going to better conditions, to improve social welfare benefits and better health services for themselves and their families, then the answer is yes, they will do it. But if the resulting position will be loss of employment and emigration, then the workers will naturally say "no" and without the workers, all the planning and all the employers' improved techniques and all the machinery will be completely wasted.

I warn the Taoiseach that workers are determined that if increased wealth is to be secured by increased productivity, they will demand their share not only in better wages but also in better social benefits and better health services.

I must agree with Deputy O'Higgins in regard to the health services and his attitude to the activities of the Select Committee on Health Services. It is true that all Parties agreed to serve with Government Deputies on this Committee in an honest effort, completely divorced from politics, to recommend to the Dáil and the Government a planned policy on the health services needed for the country. What has been the result? We have been two-and-a-half years taking evidence, meeting delegations and trying to produce a plan. We have seen practically every group and interest in the country, and in spite of exhaustive and detailed examination, and hearing various views, the Minister for Health continues to bring forward more and more evidence.

Even before we began, we all knew the needs of the people. The Labour Party, through their representatives on the Committee, have tabled motions seeking an interim report, pending conclusion of this long, detailed examination that has gone on and is likely to continue, so that in the meantime there would be a recommendation to the Government to bring in an interim scheme that would give the majority of our working people at least a little more, compared with the present health services. We are going on holidays as from 10.30 tonight and not coming back until 3rd November and we have produced neither scheme nor recommendation to this House and until this House reassembles, there is no hope—and I suggest no intention— of making any improvement in our health services in the foreseeable future and certainly not before the end of this year.

I do not think the Taoiseach should have waxed so eloquent on the wonderful future there is for our health services. Let us be blunt. In this country one must practically be a pauper and have no rights in order to claim to be covered by the health services. It is true there is limited assistance given in relation to hospital cases, but, as far as the ordinary worker is concerned, he is at the mercy of whatever the doctor sees fit to charge him. He has no choice. Should he or any member of his family fall ill, he is forced by the very fact that nobody else but a doctor can treat the patient to engage the services of a doctor, without questioning costs or anything else, and he must pay irrespective of who renders the service.

It is the duty of the Government of any country to ensure that no citizen suffers in health and nobody goes without the necessary medical services just because he has not the money wherewith to pay for these services. It is the responsibility of the Government and the responsibility of the Taoiseach to ensure that all our citizens are covered by health services. That has not been so up to the present. The Labour Party stand for health services on a contributory basis covering all the people, supported by contributions from the State and from employers. Such a scheme has proved successful in practically every country in the world. Like our social welfare, our health services are lagging behind other European countries.

Despite what the Taoiseach says, I do not think he has taken note of some very fundamental facts and some glaring defects in relation to our agricultural economy. I have not very much knowledge of land, but I do know the view of the NFA on the Land Bill, which the Taoiseach lauded today, and which he claimed would constitute a step towards a better agricultural economy. Deputy T. Lynch, Deputy Ormonde and I met the NFA in Waterford. They made their attitude towards the Land Bill quite clear. The Land Bill was denounced by the farming interests of Waterford on the ground that the powers given were such as to interfere with the rights of the private individual. Under this Bill land can be taken from a man, allegedly in the national interest.

Land is a most valuable asset to any man. The mere fact that land can be taken away in this arbitrary fashion will inevitably lead to the value of the land being depressed when it is offered for sale. The NFA pointed out that smallholders all over the country are forced to leave the small holdings on which they were born and bred in order to earn sufficient to rear a family. They must go temporarily to Great Britain or elsewhere to find that extra money. It is their intention to return home to their own country eventually. Under the Land Bill, their lands can be taken from them.

I believe the NFA speak for the majority of the farmers in Waterford. They came to me, not privately but publicly, and to the other Deputies representing the constituency, including a member of the Taoiseach's Party, in an endeavour to convince us that we should oppose the particular section in the Land Bill. The Taoiseach, despite his lauding of the Bill, may be overlooking some defects which are obvious to those who know most about land.

While the Labour Party agree with the Taoiseach as to the need for further expansion of Government-sponsored industry, we hold that, if private enterprise will not engage in industry because the profit is not sufficiently attractive to justify investment in it, then the State has a moral responsibility to promote such industries. The employment content alone is sufficient justification for that. While we support the Government in the establishment of semi-State industries, such as Bord na Móna, CIE, Irish Shipping and various others, we also feel there is urgent need for this House to have the right to investigate and secure detailed information of the day-to-day workings of such industries in order to safeguard public finances. We do not suggest we should carry out a full-scale investigation and detailed examination of all the records of all semi-State bodies, but we feel there is a responsibility on the Government to establish a Committee of this House, constituted of all Parties, to act as an investigating body and as the watchdog over public expenditure where these bodies are concerned. I understand that system obtains in the British Parliament. It would bring its reward here. It would make those administering these semi-State companies more careful. It would obviate the need for suggestions, very often wrong and sometimes right, with regard to incompetency, extravagance and even fraud.

Finally, I want to refer to a subject in relation to which I again plead little knowledge but I think my knowledge would equate roughly that of the Taoiseach. The Taoiseach stated that the biggest trouble the Agricultural Credit Corporation had was that they do not get enough applicants for credit to develop the farms. He suggested that any farmer could secure on his own note of hand an advance of £400 and that any farmer backed by a cooperative creamery would have no difficulty in getting a loan of £500. Whether or not all the particular farmers in Waterford who attempted to secure loans, and who sought my help in making representations to the Agricultural Credit Corporation were unsatisfactory types of individuals, or untrustworthy for some reason not disclosed, I do not know, but I find it difficult to think that the outflow of money from the Corporation is there in reality.

Last April I had the occasion to make representations to the Agricultural Credit Corporation in respect of an advance of £500 to a farmer who had a 60-acre farm, who had been engaged mainly in agriculture, and who now, because of advancing age and a feeling that he was unable to cope with the tillage side of it, was changing over to livestock. He considered that he required about £500 to help him effect the change. He secured the backing of the local creamery and, to my mind, was quite creditworthy, but after repeated attempts to get it, the final decision was that he was not to get any money at all. Therefore, I find it difficult to believe what the Taoiseach appears to believe, that anyone genuinely seeking a loan, who has sufficient security—and this man was the sole owner of his farm, which should have been security enough for £500—and is willing and anxious to secure a loan to increase his production, will get it. If the Taoiseach believes that, he should make inquiries as to the number who have been refused and the reasons why they were refused.

One must admire the nerve of any Fianna Fáil Deputy who stands up in 1964 and talks about unemployment and emigration. Perhaps it was because there was one Fianna Fáil Deputy who had the nerve to do that, that every other Fianna Fáil Deputy fled from the House and that we have the spectacle, for a great part of the debate on the Taoiseach's Estimate, of not a single Fianna Fáil Deputy sitting behind the Minister during this discussion. The Minister for Education need not look around; he can take my word for it. There is not a single Deputy behind him and there has not been a single Deputy sitting behind him for a very considerable part of this debate.

Deputy Corry is the Deputy who had the nerve to talk about unemployment and emigration. He even had the nerve to mention the word "housing". I want to deal briefly with some of these topics which Deputy Corry opened up. There are few Deputies —I was about to say "in this House", but when I look at the blank benches opposite, I decided that that was not a very appropriate phrase—who do not remember the very vigorous campaign fought by the Fianna Fáil Party when they were out of office and were seeking to regain office in the general election of 1957. It was a compaign, I can assure the Minister for Education, which was much more vigorous than will be the campaign forecast by the Taoiseach in connection with the revival of the Irish language.

I do not know whether the Minister for Education took part in that campaign—I imagine he did—but there is no doubt that Fianna Fáil were like tigers in 1957. They talked about the cost of living, the cost of government, unemployment, emigration and housing. I think I am correct in saying, and I will not be contradicted by any of the Deputies opposite when they resume their seats, that the five main arguments which the Fianna Fáil Party used in an effort to regain office were based on criticisms of the inter-Party Government because of alleged failure to control the cost of living, to control the cost of government, to control unemployment, to control emigration and because of alleged failure in the housing programme.

It is fair, at the end of a Dáil session, discussing the Taoiseach's Estimate and the Government's account of their stewardship, to look for a few moments at the performance of the Fianna Fáil Party as a Government since they regained office, and to compare it with all the propaganda about which I speak. It is a time of stocktaking, despite the remarks of Deputy Corry, who apparently disliked the word "stocktaking", at least when it was applied to the Fine Gael Party. Incidentally, I can assure him and his colleagues that so far as this Party are concerned, we are not a Party of political zombies. We are prepared to examine problems as they arise, to examine policies and to have a general examination of the country's needs and of the people we represent. No matter what taunts may be levelled against us with regard to policy stocktaking, it is not a matter about which any modern political Party should be ashamed.

However, that is digression. I want to ask the Minister for Education to consider how the cost of living has progressed since he and his colleagues resumed office. I will not be contradicted when I say that Fianna Fáil are the only Party who as a Government, by deliberate positive action, forced up the cost of living. They did that immediately they resumed office in 1957 when they swept away the food subsidies which had been deliberately maintained by the previous Government with the object of keeping down the cost of living and acting as a buffer between rising costs, on the one hand, and the poorer sections of the community on the other. The Minister is still lonely. I will tell him as soon as anybody comes in. There is one on the brink now. He has taken one step down.

He is a good match for you, too.

In 1957, Fianna Fáil deliberately increased the cost of living by that action and for the second time since they resumed office in 1957, in their Budget of last year, they again, by deliberate, positive Government action increased the cost of living by means of their turnover tax when they decided that that tax was to be imposed on food, fuel and clothing, the essentials of life for the people. So far as that particular point of argument, which was made an issue by Fianna Fáil when they were endeavouring to regain office, is concerned, it is true to say that their record has been one of miserable failure, so that all the propaganda, when measured against performance amounts to so much heady froth and nothing more.

What about the cost of government? There used to be a suggestion that the inter-Party Government were spending too much of the people's money in running this country. As Deputy Dillon has pointed out, since Fianna Fáil were returned to office, the cost of government has increased by more than £100 million. I am not suggesting that all of that money is wasted, that it is not being spent in useful and worthwhile schemes, but the fact remains that the Party who complained of the cost of government now stand out as the Party who have increased that cost by more than £100 million in the past seven years.

Deputy Corry referred to unemployment. I wonder could any Deputy forget the propaganda carried on by Fianna Fáil in 1957, and even since then, with regard to the employment position which existed then? All of us know that in those days the then Government faced a very difficult situation. They faced a situation when hard, tough decisions had to be made but they had the courage to make those decisions and to implement them. The then Taoiseach told the people that those decisions had to be taken, that they were going to cause hardships and difficulties, but that if they were not taken and implemented, then the hardships and difficulties, instead of being transitory and passing, might well become permanent because our national solvency was at stake. Those decisions were taken and we had all the harsh words of criticism from the Fianna Fáil Party. There is no doubt in my mind that all the propaganda had its effect.

During the course of those difficult years, Fianna Fáil thought fit to talk about 100,000 new jobs. I did not hear Deputy Corry mention 100,000 new jobs in his speech today. I understand that Fianna Fáil become very sensitive about this matter and we are told that it was not a plan at all, that it was not intended as a plan, that it was merely a proposal. Whether it was a plan or a proposal, the fact is that in the context of all the propaganda and criticism against the inter-Party Government they spoke of 100,000 new jobs. Is it not fair now, at the end of this Dáil session, to ask the Leader of the Government to tell us about the 100,000 new jobs? What has become of them? If the Taoiseach were to conclude the discussion on this Estimate and tell us that there were only 30,000 new jobs after seven years, would not every Deputy on these benches and on the Labour benches be entitled to complain and ask where were the other 70,000?

But there is no question of 10,000, 20,000, 30,000 or 100,000 new jobs. The best that Fianna Fáil can boast of after seven years in office is that there are 70,000 fewer people at work than in 1956. Fianna Fáil Deputies have the gall to talk here about unemployment and to criticise their predecessors on that score. Their record after seven years is 70,000 fewer people at work, an average of 10,000 people a year put out of work since they came back to office.

What about emigration? We hear Deputy Corry talk of the emigrant ship as the prospect facing people who might be put out of employment here. Is it not a fact that, according to the official statistics published by the Government, more than 200,000 people emigrated between 1956 and 1961, more than 200,000 Irish men and women left this country, presumably to seek employment abroad? That period ended three years ago. I do not think it would be incorrect to say that something of the order of a minimum of 250,000 people left this country since 1956 or 1957. Fianna Fáil have nothing to boast of so far as their record regarding emigration is concerned.

Deputy Corry also spoke of the housing situation and I am glad to have an opportunity of making these remarks while the Parliamentary Secretary is in the House. Of all the failures of Fianna Fáil when measured against their propaganda of 1957, none is more glaring than their failure in the housing programme. Again, I am taking the official Government statistics when I speak on this subject. In the Statistical Abstract for 1963, on page 208, there will be found a table dealing with the number of houses erected over a period of years. So far as the local authorities are concerned from 1956 to 1963, Fianna Fáil history has been one of dismal failure with hardly a bright spot to illuminate it.

In 1956, the year which Fianna Fáil like to describe as the black year for this country, the number of local authority houses built was 2,363, according to official Government statistics. That had declined in 1962 to a miserable total of 783 houses. It increased in 1963 to 1,242, still approximately half the number erected in the so-called black year of 1956. Signs on it, not only were 2,363 local authority houses built in 1956 but the ground was laid and the plans were made, and for 1957, notwithstanding the return of Fianna Fáil to office, the total of local authority houses built was 3,167. They could not stop the houses going up in their first year of office. But look at their history after that. In 1958, the number dropped to 2,206; in 1959, there was a further drop to 1,164; in 1960, there was a slight improvement to 1,684. In 1961, there was another dismal drop to 836. I have already given the figure for 1962, 783. This is the Party who took up day after day in this House——

Has the Deputy the private housing figures?

——and burst the eardrums of many hearers at the crossroads talking about housing and the black year of 1956. That is their record as far as local authority housing is concerned. Relatively speaking, the story is very much the same when we look at the total of new houses built with State aid.

And reconstructed?

In 1956, the total new houses built with State aid was 9,837. In 1957, again the wheels were geared and turning. The houses were being built. The State aid was there. The total number of new houses built with the State aid in 1957 was 10,969. Then the dead hand of Fianna Fáil operated on the housing programme and the total new houses built with State aid in 1958 dropped to 7,480.

Why did it drop? Tell us the truth.

I have given the reason.

The Parliamentary Secretary will have every opportunity of giving his point of view. I know this does not suit the Parliamentary Secretary but it is good for him to hear it. These are his figures; they are not mine. The Parliamentary Secretary interrupted me. Let me give the picture again. In 1958, there was a drop of over 3,000 down to 7,480. In 1959, there was another colossal drop down to 4,894.

The skilled workers were gone. When you ran out of money in 1956 and bankrupted the building industry, there were no workers there. No fewer than 2,000 of them went in three months.

Deputy O'Higgins is in possession and should be allowed to speak.

I think we may excuse the Parliamentary Secretary. He was not here when I was dealing with the question of unemployment. He has better support than his Minister had, because he has one Fianna Fáil Deputy behind him now. We dealt with the question of unemployment and, but for the fact that the Chair would naturally demur if I were to repeat myself, I would be only too delighted to deal with it again.

Sixty thousand emigrated.

The Parliamentary Secretary may not be aware of the fact that I also dealt with emigration. I understand he has some responsibility with regard to housing. He should be interested to hear these figures.

I want to hear the truth.

They do say some horrible things about statistics, but these are not mine; they are the Government's statistics.

I presume the Deputy is quoting from page 209?

If he looks at the number of houses reconstructed——

That was our scheme.

I must insist that Deputy O'Higgins be allowed to speak without interruption from any side, even his own.

The Parliamentary Secretary being a very able parliamentarian, has now made the particular page of the Dáil Debates in which this will appear a rather muddled one with one figure at the top and another at the bottom.

Surely this would be more appropriate to the Estimate for the Department of Local Government?

I think that is the last line of retreat.

You ran out of money in 1956. There was no money to pay for houses or to pay the men.

You promised 100,000 new jobs.

Let us be serious about it.

Let us be factual and truthful.

The Parliamentary Secretary likes his little joke. He is going to swallow those figures. These are the figures he invited me to give.

You cannot build houses without the men.

I must insist that the Deputy be allowed to speak without interruption. He should be allowed to make his case in his own way.

I want to get away from this as soon as I can. I do not want to rub anybody's nose in it, but these are important figures. In 1957, the total of new houses built with State aid was 10,969; in 1958, it dropped to 7,480; in 1959, there was a further drop of 4,894. There was a slight increase in 1960 to 5,992. There was a drop in 1961 to 5,798 and a drop in 1962 to 5,626. In 1963, there was an increase to 6,867.

The Parliamentary Secretary, when I dealt with the question of local authority houses, said: "But what about the new houses? What about the total overall houses built?" I have given him those. The record is just as deplorable. When I gave him the figures with regard to the total of new houses built with State aid, the Parliamentary Secretary threw up his hands and said: "What about the reconstructed houses?" Let us examine that. I am talking principally about the supply of the housing needs of the people of this country. What they need is an additional number of houses. It is good and worthwhile work to reconstruct old houses, but it is not placing additional living accommodation at the disposal of the people. I do not want to take any credit from the Government, in particular from the Parliamentary Secretary, if he feels that by omitting this, there is any vital part of the picture being left out. In 1956, at a time when the inter-Party Government were——

On the way out.

——able to erect 1,648 local authority houses in rural areas and 2,663 local authority houses in urban areas and were able to erect 9,837 new houses built with State aid, at the same time they were able to reconstruct with State aid a total of 6,494 old houses. That was no mean record for the so-called black year of 1956.

In 1957, again, the plans were there. The work was in hand. The work was progressing. The Parliamentary Secretary claims that skilled workers were fleeing the country. With all the difficulties that the Parliamentary Secretary speaks of, in 1957 there were 1,617 new houses built by local authorities in rural areas, 3,167 in urban areas; 10,969 was the total of new houses built with State aid and there were 8,147 old houses reconstructed. Again, no mean effort. The Fianna Fáil dead hand had not yet put a stop to the turning of the wheel.

In 1958, at a time when there had been a drop in the number of local authority houses built in rural areas, a drop in the number of local authority houses built in urban areas, a drop in the total number of new houses built with State aid, the pride, boast and glory of the Parliamentary Secretary also let him down because there was a drop of 1,000 in the total number of old houses reconstructed with State aid.

In 1959, when there was still a substantial drop in local authority houses built in rural areas, a substantial drop in local authority houses built in urban areas, a further substantial drop in the total number of houses built with State aid, there was an increase of only less than 100 in the total of old houses reconstructed with State aid. The total in that year went up from 7,167, in 1958, to 7,202 in 1959.

However, let me shorten the Parliamentary Secretary's purgatory. In 1963, at a time when the new houses built by local authorities in rural areas achieved the dismal total of 586 and the new houses built by local authorities in urban areas achieved the dismal total of 1,242, and the total of new houses built with State aid was still approximately 4,000 fewer than in 1957, the Fianna Fáil Party did manage to achieve a result where the total number of old houses reconstructed with State aid came to 9,961.

That is the picture. I am not trying to omit anything from it. It is there published on page 208 of the Statistical Abstract and it is not a story of glory so far as Fianna Fáil are concerned and, of course, the same picture is evident, as it must be evident, in the number of people employed on local authority housing.

Sir, are we going to have all this again?

In 1956, when, we were told, people were fleeing the country and that housing was grinding to a standstill because there were not workers there to do the job, the inter-Party Government managed to have more than 6,000 persons employed on local authority housing. In 1962, the last year given in the Table which appears on page 210, Fianna Fáil had managed to get roughly one-third of that—2,217 persons—employed on local authority housing.

That is the picture, whether the Parliamentary Secretary likes it or not and it is because of that picture that I make the claim that I made at the outset, that in all the main points which Fianna Fáil brought into issue in their scramble to regain office—the cost of living, the cost of Government, unemployment, emigration and housing —in each of the five of them Fianna Fáil have proved themselves to be hopeless failures so far as trying to match the performance of their predecessors in office. Certainly all their propaganda, all the literature that was deluged on the people at that time in no way measured up to the work, the hard solid work of achievement, that was done by their predecessors in office.

It is easy to blow hot air. It is easy to stick out one's chest and make rosy speeches in this House but what matters is the achievement and the achievement is shown in the figures published by the Government themselves and the picture painted there is one which certainly, as compared with the work of their predecessors, reflects no credit on the present Government. I say deliberately "as compared with the work of their predecessors" because I do not want to decry what Fianna Fáil have done in their own little way to deal with these problems.

They have made an effort on housing. It has not been an effort which in any way compares with the work that was done before. Their effort so far as the cost of living is concerned was, deliberately, by positive Government action, to increase it. I do not think that is an effort that they can be very pleased about. Their criticism of the cost of government when translated into action by Fianna Fáil was to increase the cost of government by more than £100 million. So far as unemployment is concerned, the talk of 100,000 new jobs, when translated into action, meant 70,000 fewer people at work in this country than in 1956.

All the criticism about emigration, when translated into action by Fianna Fáil, meant another 250,000 people approximately leaving this country since Fianna Fáil came back to office; and I have given the housing figures.

Can the Taoiseach, can any of the Deputies sitting behind him, afford to feel complacent when presented with that kind of picture? Do any of them really feel proud of their record in the last seven years? I doubt it very much. If they do, then I do not think they know what they are in Government for.

I want to ask the Taoiseach if it is now accepted Government policy to ignore merit and experience in the making of appointments to the public service and I am prompted to do this by an experience which I had today of the appointment of a sub-postmaster in Askeaton in my constituency, where a person who had been carrying out this work for the past 10 years——

This is not a matter of general Government policy.

I thought Government policy was being discussed.

It is Government policy that is in order in this debate but the general Government policy as adumbrated by the Taoiseach. What the Deputy is referring to is administration, which would be quite relevant to an Estimate for the Department but local matters of administration cannot be raised on the Estimate for the Department of the Taoiseach.

I thought where money was being used to change an institution like this, where public money is involved in making a change which need not be made, and where merit and experience are involved, it would be in order to raise the matter.

The Minister responsible for the Department concerned is responsible for this matter and it can be raised on the Estimate for his Department. It is a matter of administration of that Department. The Taoiseach is responsible for general Government policy. That is what is being discussed. Administration of the various Departments may not be raised on this Estimate.

In my constituency it will be a matter of public importance.

That may be, but I cannot allow it to be discussed on the Estimate for the Department of the Taoiseach.

I must bow to your ruling.

That has been the general practice since the Dáil was established. The Head of the Government is responsible for general Government policy and on the Estimate for his Department general Government policy is discussed. On the Votes for the various Departments of State, the Ministers responsible for the Departments of State may be questioned in regard to matters of administration of the kind the Deputy is speaking about. It can be raised on the Minister's Vote.

I regretfully accept your ruling on that matter.

I wish to intervene only briefly and for a single purpose. The Taoiseach today made a lengthy survey of Government policy and of their plans for the future. In the course of it he announced his intention to introduce what he termed a plan of action similar to the economic programme which will set targets for the revival of the Irish language in various sectors of the community. He advised us that very shortly, in all probability before we reassemble, he will publish his White Paper on the Language Commission's Report which is now a matter of public controversy.

It is very desirable that policy on this fundamental subject of reviving the Irish language should, if at all possible, be on common ground among all sections of the community and among all Parties in Dáil Éireann. I want to advise the Taoiseach with as much force as I can command that common ground in this matter of the Irish language cannot be found as long as compulsion and coercion remain the fundamental features of the Irish language revival.

The Taoiseach stated that his plans and measures must be rooted in public enthusiasm for the language. I hope and trust it is manifest to the Taoiseach that that public enthusiasm will not be shown until such time as people are no longer penalised by reason of their inability to speak the Irish language and until such time as the Irish language is no longer an instrument of privilege or a means of foisting jobbery. Until such time as that situation is resolved no progress whatsoever can be achieved.

The commission's report which the Taoiseach is now considering has made a number of penal recommendations. The commission has recommended a tightening of the screw of compulsion. If there is any likelihood that the Government will give way to pressure of any sort it will be a sorry day's work for the Irish language. I appreciate we are not discussing this report but it is a matter on record that the commission has recommended the denying of increments to technical officers in the Civil Service, in State companies and in local authorities if they fail to pass competency tests in the Irish language. The commission has recommended that pressure should be put on Trinity College and on professional bodies to impose compulsory Irish in their examinations where it does not exist at present. These are penal, vicious recommendations and the Government would be most unwise to accept them or to implement them.

The Fine Gael Party at its recent Árd Fheis rejected the commission's report in so far as it recommended a tightening of the screw in these matters. This is surely a matter on which minority interests should be consulted because without their co-operation nothing whatsoever can be achieved. I would urge on the Taoiseach in the interests of the language revival that a change of heart should be brought about. I would urge upon him in particular that the association of the language revival with humbug, with dishonesty and with mercenary motives has failed to achieve anything. As Deputy Dillon pointed out, the Fior-Ghaeltacht has now a population of one-quarter of what it was 20 years ago. In so far as the commission has recommended certain economic palliatives, alleviations for the Gaeltacht, we can agree that such recommendations should be implemented. To my mind it is significant that as of today the strongest Fior-Ghaeltacht, that in Ballyferriter, is being handed over to English caravan interests and the Government seem to be showing little real concern for a development such as that.

The Taoiseach announced he was not happy that all the State companies were playing their part in the economic programme. He suggested he would not hesitate to increase the scale of investment in industry to widen the range of activities if private enterprise failed to respond as it should to the challenge of these times. In that connection it is a matter of fundamental importance to find some means of bringing State companies under Parliamentary control. A Fianna Fáil Deputy referred here last week to this matter and it is one which is causing growing concern to many people. If the number and range of our State enterprises are to increase some solution must be found to this problem. We are in danger of creating a monstrous bureaucracy completely outside Parliamentary control. It is not incompatible with providing a degree of commercial freedom to these companies to combine with it a full measure of public control and of accountability to Parliament which does not at present exist.

I welcome the emphasis which the Taoiseach appears to have laid on education as a form of productive investment in the Second Programme for Economic Expansion. It seems that the fundamental flaw in the Second Programme is the fact that it places the cart before the horse in the matter of educational investment. I have not got the Programme with me but education gets very brief mention in it to the effect that, as national resources expand with increasing productivity, it will be possible to devote a growing share of these increased resources to educational investment. That appears to be putting the cart before the horse because we shall not have that growth in national resources nor in productivity without considerably increased investment in education. Present indications are that the Minister for Education and his Department are not fully aware of the implications of this.

Education, more than any other public service, suffered in the past from the preoccupation of Governments with dead-weight debt, the point of view that any investment which did not yield a short term cash profit was undesirable and should be discouraged. The Government of Northern Ireland is even still spending more money on educational purposes for six counties than we are for twenty-six. While that position countinues, apart from anything else, there is little prospect of progress.

The Taoiseach today painted a very rosy picture——

Is it intended to conclude this debate to-night?

The Chair has no knowledge of any agreement.

It was explained to both Parties by the Labour Party that we were anxious that the debate should conclude tonight because of our annual conference to-morrow. If, however, the debate is to continue we shall claim our right to take part in the debate and carry it on into next week if necessary.

I was not aware of any arrangement to conclude the debate tonight but I do not propose to speak at length.

It was generally decided that the debate should end tonight and the Taoiseach is surely entitled to some time.

It is not important.

I do not know about the agreement but I know that in recent months both in the case of the Fine Gael and Fianna Fáil Árd-Fheis we agreed to forego one day's session to convenience the delegates of Fianna Fáil and Fine Gael. In the case of our annual conference we have got to come back to Dublin again.

I should be very happy to facilitate the Deputy's Party in this matter.

Since tomorrow's questions were taken today, I understood there was a desire to conclude the debate to night.

Is it not a fact that since no provision was made for the extension of time the business must finish by 10.15 p.m.? Perhaps the Taoiseach does not require any time since he spoke for more than an hour and a quarter earlier today.

I require only about ten minutes to mention the few matters I wish to deal with. One is a matter of very serious public importance. The Taoiseach in the course of his speech today spoke of the Land Bill at present before the Dáil. I believe he, or some of the Deputies of Fianna Fáil, complained that Fine Gael were obstructing the passing of that Bill by the amount of debate that had taken place so far and that as yet it had only reached a very early stage. This Bill is a very serious matter for the country. This Bill will deprive the landowners of fixity of tenure and of free sale for which Michael Davitt and all the Land Leaguers fought successfully against the landlords of the past. This Land Bill is causing a great deal of anxiety among landowners. It is all very well to build up dreams and paint pictures for small holders or anybody else or for people who have no land and might hope to gain something but we must remember that existing landowners are the people to consider at this stage.

If this Bill in its present form goes through, the farmers will be reduced to the position of caretakers of their holdings. It will amount to nationalisation of the land of the country. They will be deprived of fixity of tenure and of free sale. They will have to apply to the Irish Land Commission for a licence if they want to sell their land, or to let or rent it. It is an interference with the rights of private property which has always been respected here and for that reason I feel, having regard to the remarks of the Taoiseach today, we must take a very vigorous attitude towards the proposals in the Land Bill.

Suppose a shopkeeper wishes to dispose of his business and sell his premises he does not have to seek a licence from the Department of Industry and Commerce or anybody else. He is the sole owner and is free to do with his business as he wishes. He may sell it or let it. Similarly, a factory owner may sell his factory. Similarly, the owner of a private dwelling is free to sell or let his property or dispose of it as he wishes. He is the sole owner. But the Land Bill now proposes to deprive the farmer of the right to manage his land and dispose of it as he may wish.

Arguments will be put forward that they will be dealt with in a reasonable way but basically the Land Bill will deprive farmers of sole ownership of their land. I do hope that as Fianna Fáil found it necessary to do once before, they will drop the Bill into the wastepaper basket and we shall hear no more about it.

I had other matters to mention but I shall be brief in view of the representations of the Labour Party. In relation to agriculture, I should like to say that the acreage of beet planted this year is less than the acreage planted at any time in the past twenty years. Apparently Fianna Fáil have somersaulted in their attitude towards beet. We read on hoardings in the past: "Grow More Wheat" and we saw Fianna Fáil making political issues of wheat-growing. The matter of wheat-growing was political dynamite. Now we find less wheat planted than in any year in the past twenty.

Similarly, the despised Electricity Supply Board is actually bringing prosperity to the peat industry by reason of the huge consumption of peat for the purpose of generating electricity. There again we have the Fianna Fáil attitude completely reversed in relation to the establishment of the Shannon Scheme and the ESB.

We heard Deputy Corry speak of sugar exports. Everybody knows that so far as sugar exports are concerned the position is favourable because sugar actually rose one hundred pound per ton in the past twelve months in Great Britain owing to the world position.

Then we have the situation in which the Irish housewife today must pay 4/6d. per pound for Irish butter but it is being exported and the English housewife—or, indeed, the Irish housewife in England—is able to buy Irish butter for 2/6d. per pound.

The Taoiseach boasted that industry is flourishing. It is flourishing as a result mainly of the establishment of the Industrial Development Authority. That is the body the Taoiseach promised he would dismantle so soon as he had the opportunity at the time it was being established by the inter-Party Government. Industry is prospering, too, as a result of the Industrial Grants Act enacted by the inter-Party Government. That Act facilitated further industrial expansion and enabled the Government to assist those who wished to engage in such expansion. Another matter which has helped industrial expansion is the system of tax concessions introduced by Deputy Sweetman, as Minister for Finance, in the Finance Act. As a result of these tax concessions, enterprising industrialists and manufacturers went out and sought markets and they reaped the reward of their efforts.

There are many more matters I should like to deal with but I shall content myself with a reference to some remarks made by the Taoiseach in relation to the revival of the language. All the present argument and debate arises from the resistance that appears to have grown up in the public mind. That resistance is the result of victimisation because the language is being used to deprive qualified persons from getting employment for which they are eminently suitable but from which they are debarred because they have not got a competent knowledge of Irish. In fact, of course, Irish is not essential to enable them to perform efficiently and competently whatever the duties are. Again, the element of compulsion has built up a resistance in the public generally. Until that and the victimisation are removed, we cannot hope to create goodwill towards the language in the public mind. A policy of persuasion and encouragement should be followed and every effort should be made to remove as quickly as possible any element of the victimisation and compulsion unhappily associated with the language because there is a great measure of goodwill fundamentally towards the language on the part of most people.

I have no desire at this stage other than to help all Deputies to go on their way rejoicing and I hope I shall see every Deputy back here again looking fit and well on 3rd November.

We understood the Taoiseach wanted 20 minutes to reply. The division can be taken now, if the House wishes to suspend the rule.

If the House suspends the rule in regard to the taking of divisions on Estimates, the divisions can be taken now.

Agreed.

I would have occupied the time if I had thought the time would go to waste.

Question put and, a division being demanded, it was postponed in accordance with the order of the Dáil of 14th November, 1963, until after the division on the Vote for Transport and Power.
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