asked the Minister for Transport and Power if he is aware of the serious problem facing tenants of council cottages and private houses as a result of the high estimate given by ESB officials for special service charges; and if, in view of this, he will consider making available a more attractive financial arrangement whereby people living in isolated areas could install electricity at a reasonable cost.
Ceisteanna—Questions. Oral Answers. - ESB Special Service Charge.
47.
Mr. Donnellan
The ESB require special service charges only in respect of the relatively small number of premises which are located in comparatively isolated situations where the normal fixed charge does not yield sufficient revenue to permit connection on an economic basis even after taking account of the substantial State subsidy. The Board are already incurring substantial losses on rural electrification despite the subsidy and to offer more attractive terms for the connection of those premises to which special service charges apply, would involve the Board in additional losses of an order which could not be justified by the benefits which would ensue.
Mr. Donnellan
Are these people living in isolated areas not to be given the same opportunity as those people living along the main lines?
I have already explained in some detail to the House the position in regard to the people living in certain areas who up to 1962 had not been provided with power. There were 112,000 of them and of these 112,000, 77,000 can get power without paying any extra service charge and 23,000 can get power by paying only a very modest extra service charge of up to 50 per cent of the basic charge but in many cases below that. Of the remaining 12,000, the charges would be additional service charges of 100 per cent and those are required because of the absolutely prohibitive cost of installation. By 1968 we anticipate that about 90 per cent of all the premises will be connected to the system and, as the Deputy will see, we shall have done, on the whole, a very good job. As the Deputy knows, there is a bottled gas subsidy available for people in the isolated areas.
Mr. Browne
Is the Minister aware that the recent subsidy introduced by his Department to meet isolated cases was introduced in theory to benefit those isolated cases, but in actual fact, by the operation of the scheme people in isolated areas are worse off now than prior to the introduction of the subsidy scheme? In the light of this would the Minister be prepared to have an investigation in which case I should be prepared to put actual cases before him proving my arguments?
I am always prepared to investigate any cases that come before the Deputy's mind. It is true that changing the system of subsidy to 75 per cent of the capital cost, that is, a maximum of £75 per grid connected did alter the incidence of the charge in certain cases in the direction the Deputy indicates but it also brought a great many other people into the range of being able to get power without paying extra service charges or paying a service charge that is a very small percentage above the basic charge.
We reckon there are some 377,000 rural premises and the ESB believe that by 1968 37,000 of them will not have taken power at the existing rates and that of these 37,000 probably another 20,000 will seek connection if the scheme continues beyond 1968. Therefore, the position compared with that obtaining in other countries would be fairly satisfactory in regard to the number of people who have been able to secure power. We are not behind other countries in this regard.
The Minister stated that a relatively small number are being affected and the reason they are affected is that they are living in isolated areas. Is he aware that as regards the majority of the people living in isolated areas it is not their fault that they do not come within the system, the area selected by the ESB, and that, furthermore, these people in isolated areas are very poor people? Why should they be the people to carry an extra service charge? Would the Minister not reconsider that in the light of the small number of people who are left?
That would involve a technical discussion of the method by which the ESB levy these charges. It is a very complex one but the Deputy might like to know that already the rural system loses nearly £1 million a year and it is subsidised by the profits made on the urban system for the supply of current. If we were to abolish the special service charge the losses would run at an additional £650,000 a year.
The Minister does not seem to get the point. There is nobody criticising the technical aspect of this thing or what the ESB are doing. Taking the human aspect into consideration, does the Minister not know himself for a fact that it is the very poor section of the community who are being burdened with this extra charge? Surely the remainder of the community would be generous enough to say they would carry the extra load for the limited number.
We shall see that at election time.
Did the Taoiseach not promise to withdraw this charge?
I think the Deputy is not correct.
Your people abolished the subsidy altogether. you broke your world.
You promised to abolish the special service charge and you broke your word.
That is not unusual.
The remaining questions for oral answer will appear on tomorrow's Order Paper.