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Dáil Éireann debate -
Thursday, 3 Jun 1965

Vol. 216 No. 3

Committee on Finance. - Protection of Animals (Amendment) Bill, 1963: Report and Final Stages.

I move amendment No. 1:

In section 14, subsection (4), page 7, line 52 to delete "place" and to insert "road".

When the House was discussing this Bill on Committee Stage, there were only two points of substance raised and these were both raised by Deputy Dillon. I promised I would have another look at those points before Report Stage. The first point concerned the phrase "public place" in section 14(4). Deputy Dillon suggested that the phrase was too restrictive and that it should be replaced by the words "public road". The Deputy considered that in certain areas a small farm might be so situated that the laying of poison on any portion of it might contravene the law. I think the Deputy has a point, and I have tabled this amendment accordingly.

The second point Deputy Dillon raised was that in section 20 (1) the limit of four greyhounds permitted to be exercised or led in public by one person should be increased. The original proposal in the Bill, as prepared by those who sponsored it as a Private Members' Bill, was that the number of greyhounds to be led or exercised in public should be limited to two. It was also proposed that there should be an age limit below which a person should not be allowed to lead greyhounds in public. The proposal now in the Bill was reached after consultation with Bord na gCon and the sponsors of the Bill, and I think it represents a fair compromise.

Amendment agreed to.
Bill, as amended, received for final consideration.
Question proposed: "That the Bill do now pass."

I do not agree with the view expressed in relation to the second point. I think the Bill would have been improved if "public place" had been omitted and if it had been left as "public road". There is provision in relation to "open park". I think there will be exactly the same difficulty in relation to section 20 as there was in relation to the other amendment which dealt with the point raised by Deputy Dillon. I agree that it is very bad to enact a law which will be broken constantly. At the same time, I feel that members of the Garda have more to do than to go up lanes, culs-de-sac and byroads on which dogs might be exercised in breach of section 20.

It refers to places to which the public customarily resort.

I am thinking of difficulties of which the Minister would be fully aware if he represented a rural constituency. There may be one person living at the very far end of a road but from the point of view of the local authority taking it over, the case is always made that the public go up the road, that the postman, the priest and the doctor go up that road. I think the Minister might find himself in exactly the same difficulty.

However, the Bill cannot be amended any further now. The one point where it was amended is an improvement. It is quite clear that the Bill was substantially improved during its passage through the Seanad. The original Bill, while it was desirable in many aspects—and its desirability is proved by the fact that we are now passing it — was undoubtedly too narrow in some aspects. We must always endeavour in dealing with matters like this to keep a proper balance. We all know the trite cliché that nature is cruel, or that parents have to be cruel to be kind. We must endeavour to ensure that unnecessary or wanton suffering is not caused while, at the same time, not hampering the farmers in their difficult battle to win from nature the fruits of nature.

I should like to take this opportunity of welcoming the Bill. It is only right to say that we are all greatly indebted to the sponsoring body, the Society for the Prevention of Cruelty to Animals, and the associated bodies who worked towards the introduction of this measure in the Seanad as a Private Members' Bill. They worked very hard and they are certainly a little disappointed that they did not get everything they asked for.

I agree with Deputy Sweetman that we have now got a very workmanlike Bill which makes very great advances in the whole sphere of the protection of animals, particularly in view of the fact that it covers all animals, including wild animals. Government Departments have been most helpful and co-operative. I know the Society would wish me to pay tribute to the officials and Ministers of the Departments of Justice and Agriculture for taking such a kindly interest in the Bill since its inception. We can look forward to this Bill being enforced by public opinion rather than by Garda intervention.

Deputy Sweetman mentioned the difficulty the Garda would have in keeping an eye on how many greyhounds were being exercised down a boreen. I do not think that is the way this Bill, when it is an Act, will be worked. Members of the public will now know that they are entitled to report cases which are breaches of the Act. I welcome the Bill and I congratulate all those who worked so hard to draft it, and also Senators who worked so hard to make it a more practical Bill than it was originally.

Question put and agreed to.
Bill to Seanad.
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