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Dáil Éireann debate -
Thursday, 28 Oct 1965

Vol. 218 No. 4

Committee on Finance. - Vote 17—Miscellaneous Expenses.

I move:

That a Supplementary Estimate not exceeding £10 be granted to defray the charge which will come in course of payment during the year ended 31st March, 1966 for certain Miscellaneous Expenses including certain Grants-in-Aid.

Deputies will remember that the Funds of Suitors Act, 1963, provided that up to £50,000 might be made available from unclaimed balances in the Funds of Suitors towards the rebuilding of the Cork Opera House which was destroyed by fire late in 1955. At the same time as that Act was passed the Oireachtas agreed to the scheduling to the State Guarantees Act, 1954, of the Cork Opera House Co., in the sum of £50,000, enabling the Cork Opera House Company to negotiate a long-term bank loan for that sum. The grant and loan, together with a loan of £25,000, from Cork Corporation and the funds raised by private subscription was thought sufficient to meet the full cost of completing the Opera House which was then estimated at £200,000.

Unfortunately, as in the case of the

Abbey Theatre, which was the subject of the last Supplementary Estimate for this Vote, the rise in building costs has made the original estimate obsolete and it is anticipated that £35,000 extra will be needed to meet the cost of completing the building. This is now at the point of completion, the opening being fixed for 31 October, and, accordingly, the final bills will have to be met at an early date.

The directors of the Cork Opera House think that there would be little hope of a fresh appeal to the public raising any significant sum, in particular in view of the fact that £82,000 has already been subscribed from private sources. I have therefore intimated to them that I would approach the Dáil for sanction to a Supplementary Estimate to cover the shortfall and that they might, in view of this, be able to make temporary arrangements with their bankers for accommodation to meet their most pressing needs.

In view of progress on the new Abbey Theatre being slower than expected, the full cost of its completion will not need to be met in the current financial year. I have thus been able to count on a saving this year of at least £35,000 from the £290,000 already voted towards the completion of the Abbey and the vote here presented is for a token of £10 only.

The Minister for Justice has agreed to introduce legislation enabling a further draw to be made on the Funds of Suitors towards the completion of the Abbey Theatre. This will mean that the Exchequer will be recouped any payment made from Subhead A for completion of the new Abbey Theatre.

Mr. Barrett

Could the Minister indicate to the House when the full £35,000 in question will be needed?

Is this a supplementary question?

Mr. Barrett

I want the information for the purpose of enabling us to make up our minds what view we will take in relation to the Minister's proposal.

When I met the directors of the Cork Opera House earlier this year, they presented me with a bill for outstanding items due to builders, mechanical suppliers, electrical suppliers, and so on, amounting to about £35,000 and they intimated to me that this sum would require to be paid before the opening of the Opera House could take place. It may be that some items of this sum could be delayed for a short time but, by and large, I feel the total sum would be required by——

Mr. Barrett

Sunday next.

——the time the building is handed over by the suppliers to the company.

Mr. Barrett

It seems to me the building has in fact already been handed over by the builders to the Opera House directors inasmuch as the Opera House is officially opening on Sunday night next. At this stage I should like to express my personal appreciation of the excellent work done by the self-sacrificing people in Cork who associated themselves with the idea of building a new Opera House on the ruins of the old one. On matters such as this, there is always room for disagreement. Some thought the plans for the new Opera House were too ambitious and that a smaller, more intimate theatre would be more suited to the needs of a city of the size of population and type of hinterland Cork has, especially in present day circumstances in which the theatre, because of television and other media, is going through a lean time.

There is no point in developing that argument at this stage because the Opera House is a fait accompli. It is there and it will be opened on Sunday. Lest anybody might be misled by the term “Opera House”, I should like to explain that the new building, like the old building, will not be exclusively an arcade of culture. It will not be a place for the performance only of operas, good plays, or anything else. The old Opera House had ordinary reviews and various other shows and I believe—I trust I am right in this— that the new Opera House will have similar shows. I mention that to explain to the House that, if they do vote this £35,000, they cannot do it in the name of culture exclusively. That is not a criticism of the Opera House. It is simply a statement of fact and it is a matter this House should take into consideration when they are asked, at a stage such as this, to give—it would appear from the Minister's speech as a matter of urgency—to a cause such as the Cork Opera House a sum of £35,000.

The Minister indicated that this was to meet commitments which had been entered into by the Opera House directors. If this £35,000 is not immediately given to the Cork Opera House, it does not mean the edifice will fall down. It is there and nothing can be done to it. It will be opened on Sunday night next and the directors are in no worse condition than many of my constituents who entered into commitments with builders for a humble thing like a dwellinghouse and were unable to get the money to build that house. I refer the Minister to the fact that Cork Corporation are in even sorrier straits than the directors of the Cork Opera House in relation to the immediate procurement of money.

Surely that would not arise on this particular Supplementary Estimate? This deals with a specific object.

It is an analogy.

Mr. Barrett

I am entitled to point out to the House that, if the Minister asks us at this moment for £35,000 for an object, there are compelling reasons why the House should not give that loan of £35,000. There are other more pressing needs.

It would not be in order to discuss such on this Estimate in respect of the Cork Opera House.

Mr. Barrett

That is correct and I am referring to the £35,000 for which the Minister has asked for this purpose. I wish to express my disapproval of the Minister's request and the only way I can do so is by giving my reasons, one of the reasons being that I believe that this sum could be, to better effect, diverted to other purposes, and I would, with great respect, suggest to you, Sir, that I am entitled to develop my argument along those lines and to enumerate the other purposes, to which the sum in question could be diverted. I would, in those circumstances, ask you to allow me to continue to develop the argument, which is a telling argument.

I cannot allow a debate on housing on this Estimate.

Mr. Barrett

I am not dealing with housing as such. I am dealing with other sums which I am submitting to the House should be met before the £35,000 which the Minister suggests should be met. Housing is purely incidental. It is absolutely essential to the development of the argument which I think should be made to the House.

I cannot allow the Deputy to do that.

Mr. Barrett

I shall proceed on the basis that these are times of stringency and without regard to the urgent needs of Cork Corporation, I think I would be entitled to refer to the urgent needs of the citizens of Cork who are looking for money to meet commitments into which they have entered already which they cannot get because——

That would not arise on this Estimate. The Deputy may not discuss alternative methods of spending £35,000. The Minister is responsible for this Estimate and the Deputy should relate his remarks to it.

Mr. Barrett

I am not suggesting that because I do not think the Government would spend it in that way but I am suggesting that I am in order in pointing out to the House that there are other matters on which I am not suggesting the money would be spent but on which it could be spent rather than on the Opera House.

It would open up a very wide discussion if that were allowed.

Mr. Barrett

It would be absolutely essential to the discussion.

The Deputy must relate his remarks to this Estimate for £10.

Mr. Barrett

If a Minister comes to this House with a certain proposal, any Deputy should be entitled, from a practical point of view, to point out to the Minister that he does not think that money should be spent because it may be wanted for something else. It is the sort of thing any husband would say to his wife, and we should proceed along the same practical lines. That is all I want to do, if you will allow me.

I cannot allow the Deputy to enlarge the debate beyond the proper limits.

Mr. Barrett

I should like to point out, without making any suggestion that this money should be spent otherwise, that there are people in Cork who have gone to Cork County Council looking for paying orders which are there and they have been told that they cannot get the paying orders, for what reason I do not know. These people are just as badly off as are the people for whom the £35,000 is being requested. They are in exactly the same situation. Deputy Casey, who is in the House, must share my view that there are in Cork, without particularising, many matters which require the urgent attention of this House but the same sense of urgency in regard to them has not been shown by the Minister or by his colleague, the Minister for Local Government. I object on these grounds to the proposal of the Minister to get £35,000 for the Cork Opera House. The point of my argument has been largely taken from me by your ruling. I feel sure, however, that it will be appreciated not alone in Cork but up and down the country where people are meeting the difficulties to which I intended to refer prior to your ruling. I take it I am in order in referring to the White Paper on Public Capital Expenditure which was laid on the Table——

The Deputy is not in order in referring to the White Paper. The Deputy is in order only if relating his remarks to the relevent subheads of the Estimate. That has been the practice in this House.

Mr. Barrett

Surely if the Government issue a White Paper counselling the nation on certain matters and if the Minister comes in here with a proposal which would appear to run completely counter to the counsel contained in the White Paper, I am entitled to point out that there seems to be some discrepancy between what the Government say in the White Paper and what the Minister says now in relation to his request for £35,000 for the completion of a theatre in Cork city. I would ask your permission to continue along those lines.

The Deputy may not continue along those lines. The Deputy may refer to the Estimate and the various subheads. Anything else would be out of order.

Mr. Barrett

May I put it this way? It is a truncated argument but I suggest that it will surprise many people that at a time like the present the Minister should come to the House looking for the sum in question as a matter of supreme urgency, because these are times when money cannot be spent unless it is a matter of supreme urgency. Members of local bodies, including members of Cork Corporation and Cork County Council, know that, because it is drummed into them time and again by the Department of Local Government and, no doubt, at the behest of the Minister who asks us today for this £35,000 as a matter of urgency.

In other times and in other circumstances, I might adopt a different view of the Minister's request, although I do not believe the building of a theatre of the size and with the equipment of the Opera House in Cork was, at any stage a wise venture. From what the Minister tells us, it will cost £250,000 by the time we are finished. The volume of public support for the project can be judged from the fact that £82,000 was subscribed by the public. The Minister will recall that that £82,000 subscribed by the public was not by any means an expression of wild enthusiasm by the man in the street or woman in the household in Cork for the rebuilding of the Cork Opera House. It was subscribed mainly in large sums by big organisations. Some of them tried to outbid their competitors in generosity in their donations. I think there was a need for an Opera House but I do not think there is a need for the type of building which compels the Minister to ask us at this stage for £35,000 extra.

The matter which is of some concern to me as a member of Cork Corporation is this: I take it that this sum has not to be repaid to the Department at any stage, and if for any reason the Opera House should be sold to anybody, that the Minister does not intend that the claims of the Government in respect of this sum of £35,000 would antecede the claims of Cork Corporation in respect of a loan which they gave to the Cork Opera House Company before the Minister's proposal was made. It would be inequitable that the Government should come in at any stage and make a claim which they would say was anterior in priority to the sum of £25,000 which the Cork Corporation granted some years ago on the basis that they were dealing with the financial commitments of the Opera House Company, as it then was.

Speaking of priorities, I would conclude by saying that in this matter the Minister has got his priorities mixed up. When people are in urgent need of housing, drainage, and various other matters of that nature, first things should come first. The Minister's priority would appear to be the Cork Opera House. He is entitled to his view, I to my view and every Deputy in the House to his own view, as the man in the street is entitled to his view. I believe that the average man in Cork will be rather surprised that the Minister at this stage should select this matter out of the urgent problems awaiting monetary solution in Cork city and that this should take precedence in the Minister's mind and in the minds of those in the front and back benches of the Government.

I want to support this motion by the Minister in regard to the Cork Opera House. Anybody who has his fingers on the pulse of the people in Cork would express the same opinion. The Minister is to be congratulated on the manner in which he has met this request from the directors of the Cork Opera House and also for the part he has played over the years since the effort to rebuild the Opera House began. The Minister, both as Minister and as a Corkman, gave every assistance, and as one closely associated with the work on the Cork Opera House, I should like to express that opinion and put it on record. Quite obviously, you could not have got the voluntary effort of the ordinary people in Cork unless they wanted to rebuild the Opera House. When I hear the question asked: "What will the man in the street say?", I know, as many of us know, what he will think because we have seen ordinary people going from door to door collecting six-pences, shillings and half-crowns and contributing their own pounds when they could hardly afford it. That work was continued for eight or nine years and we have seen people running bazaars and dances and forming parish committees in order to raise funds and we have seen them going out on bleak, cold days to run flag days.

In that way, and with subscriptions we received from business houses, the local contribution came to £82,000. I do not know of any other project, charitable or otherwise, for which you could have raised £82,000 by voluntary subscription. The Government after tremendous pressure indicated that they were prepared to give us the first subvention that was necessary. Then the directors of the Cork Opera House had to go to Cork Corporation, where there are 21 hard-headed men, and look for a loan of £25,000. Some of the arguments we have heard here today were the very same arguments we heard in the Cork Corporation at a time when there was no talk of the credit squeeze or of a shortage of money for housing. The arguments trotted out today by Deputy Barrett were in the main the same as he trotted out at the meeting of the Cork Corporation at which we had to decide on the £25,000 and his colleagues, including members of his Party, did not subscribe to his views.

Mr. Barrett

On a point of accuracy, I did no such thing. I do not want to interrupt the Deputy but if the Deputy will let me——

That is a matter for Deputy Casey, if he wishes to give way.

Mr. Barrett

What I said was that I thought that the £25,000, if given, should be given with the fullest possible safeguards that could be adopted by the corporation. Deputy Casey will remember that I was Lord Mayor at the time and we went through a legal document which provided the fullest safeguards for the corporation, and that I was in favour of giving the £25,000 to the Opera House committee, once these legal safeguards had been made available. Deputy Casey will agree that I did not in any way obstruct the giving of the £25,000, once it had been decided to give it, and that I gave every assistance to ensure that the corporation's rights would be properly safeguarded.

Let me repeat: the arguments we heard at the corporation when this loan of £25,000 to the company was under discussion, were in the main the same as we have heard here from Deputy Barrett today. This reference to the man in the street not wanting it is completely wrong, as has been proved by the voluntary efforts made by——

Mr. Barrett

Guinness's and Carlings.

I did not interrupt Deputy Barrett but if he wants to interrupt me, he will find that I am a fairly good mixer in that regard too. Anybody who knows anything about the feelings of the people in Cork must know that if this request for this further £35,000 to complete the Opera House had been made and if the Government had refused it, there would have been a furore in Cork next week or the week afterwards. As the Minister explained, the cost of building did rise steeply since this whole thing was planned. I have no doubt that the people in Cork will applaud the Government for making possible the completion of the Opera House which we are happily opening next Sunday night. I hope Deputy Barrett will be there to join with the Minister and myself in welcoming our magnificent new Opera House.

Mr. Barrett

In view of the attitude of the Labour Party, I see no point in proceeding with my proposal and I have no intention of doing so.

I want to join with Deputy Casey in saying how grateful I am to the Government and to the Minister for making this sum available and for ensuring that the building which has now been completed in Cork at tremendous sacrifice to the ordinary people will not be allowed to stand idle for a number of years as a monument to some kind of restriction on the part of those who could make available the money necessary to open it. I am sorry indeed that it was a Corkman who had to put on record that the people of Cork did not in the main subscribe to the building of this house and that it was done through individual subscriptions of big firms. That is a completely false picture to paint. You will find that never in any part of the country did so many individuals subscribe towards the building of any single edifice as they have done in Cork. That is the main reason why in Cork, and indeed elsewhere, we should be proud of the fact that the Opera House has been rebuilt. It should be an example to people in other parts not to stand by when some tragedy or catastrophe befalls them and wait until such time as the Government or some body come to rebuild for them. I would not stand here today, and I would not have stood in the corporation, to ask for a single penny to be subscribed, were it not for the fact that the citizens did more than their share in subscribing. The figure of £80,000 at any time represents a lot of money to collect. I agree with Deputy Casey also that we have heard in the main most of Deputy Barrett's arguments against the rebuilding on a previous occasion, at least once, if not more often.

As regards the size of the theatre and the future of the theatre, I want to say that in Cork we think we have a very proud tradition in culture, the drama, opera and ballet, and all the other arts, and this is somewhere in which these media can be presented to the people of the city, and to visitors to the city. Certainly I believe that 80 per cent of the people of Cork felt that there was a tremendous void in the city without that theatre. Of course we know that the Opera House, as an opera house, will only have an opera season once or twice a year. Generally speaking, it is a theatre, but, as I say, we have had a tremendous tradition down there and I have no doubt this Vote of £35,000 can be regarded as a vote of confidence in the future of Cork, and in the love the people of Cork have for things theatrical in whatever medium they are presented. I again want to express on behalf of myself and those whom I represent our gratitude to the Government and the Minister for making this available and for making next Sunday's opening possible.

I was absolutely astounded listening to Deputy Barrett to think that he as a Corkman and, indeed, as a member of Cork Corporation, would stand up in Dáil Éireann and oppose the granting of £35,000 for the completion of the Cork Opera House, especially when he himself so very nearly became a director of the Opera House. However, Deputy Barrett is quite entitled to his view and I am sure he thinks he is acting in the interests of the people of Cork. I was one of the people who witnessed the burning of the old Cork Opera House. I know the sadness which everyone felt in Cork when it was burned, tragically as far as we are concerned, and I am delighted at the attitude of the Government in wanting to give to Cork the tradition they had before this burning.

Indeed, some of my happiest and fondest memories are of being in the "gods" in the Opera House and having a sing-song before the show came on. Indeed, on some occasions the talent in the "gods" was as good as the talent on the stage, but that did not matter. It was a get-together and we all enjoyed it very much. I am also proud of the efforts which were made by the ordinary man in the street in Cork going around from house to house on bad nights to collect six-pences and shillings, as Deputy Casey said. That was no mean feat, and it reflected the type of metal of which the Cork people are made. We set an example to the rest of the country by going out and doing the work for ourselves. I have lived in Dublin for a considerable length of time and I have often heard people say: "Why could we not do something like that in Dublin for the Abbey? If they could do it in Cork, surely we could do it in Dublin." We have shown in Cork that when you have the man in the street behind you, you can set out and achieve almost anything. I am delighted to be standing here today in Dáil Éireann and thanking the Minister for making this effort on behalf of the people of Cork by granting this £35,000.

I should like to express my sincere thanks to the Minister for making available to us this sum of £35,000. I am also glad that Deputy Barrett has withdrawn his opposition to it.

Mr. Barrett

His Party's opposition to it.

I am, if you like, expressing the feelings of the citizens of Cork in welcoming the Minister's act. The Opera House in Cork stood for a long number of years and was looked upon as a monument in our city. As Deputy Casey said, men, women and children subscribed to this work, going from door to door to ensure the rebuilding of the Cork Opera House. As public representatives, we are playing our part in expressing our thanks to a Corkman who brought to a successful conclusion many years of hard work in our own city of Cork.

I wish to congratulate the Minister on his stand in this matter. If cultural activity in the south has to be kept alive by a financial injection, then by all means it should get it. The Opera House in Cork will afford an opportunity to the people in the provinces of having readily accessible the facilities which are enjoyed by a limited few in the metropolis of Dublin. I applaud the Minister and I applaud everyone connected with the rebuilding of the Cork Opera House and with the filling of a void which was long overdue to be filled, so that talented people in the south will have an opportunity of performing under ideal conditions, and audiences will be able to enjoy the cultural values of opera with very little inconvenience to themselves. When the wailings of the Jonahs of the Fine Gael Party are long forgotten, the Cork Opera House will still stand as a monument to the beliefs and hopes and integrity of the Minister and the committee who have established this Opera House.

I always thought that Corkmen would form hollow squares and defend each other to the death from any attacks, and I was amazed to find that Deputy Barrett was the first to lead one.

First things first.

At any rate he was the most verbose. However, he has now redeemed himself and withdrawn his objection. For that I thank him.

Mr. Barrett

The Deputy need not thank me. It was the practical thing to do.

They did not keep their Opera House in Tipperary for very long.

It has not gone yet and it is not an Opera House.

It is being sold with all the rest of the property in the country.

The Deputy is as out of touch with this matter as he is out of touch with every other matter. It is not being sold. I want to thank the Minister and I should also like to say a special word of thanks to Deputy Casey who could have availed of this opportunity to ride a political hobbyhorse.

Mr. Barrett

No one rode a political hobbyhorse.

(Interruptions.)

I want to say a word on this. I should like to see an Opera House provided in Cork. I deplore proposals to pull down theatres in the city of Dublin. I deplore the Government's general tendency to sell everything we have to foreign corporations to be pulled down and exploited.

The Government are selling nothing to foreign corporations.

I understand the Gaiety is to be pulled down and I understand that the theatre in Clonmel is to go.

The Government do not own those properties.

The Minister should know by now that he will not knock me off my line. I want to speak of the tombstone that marks the resting place of Dean Swift who spoke of resting in a place "where savage indignation no longer rends his breast". Listening to the smarmy hypocrisy of Fianna Fáil Deputies this morning falling over one another in their salutation to the arts, I bear in mind that the Government who are this morning the patron of the arts are the Government who have left poor people in this city and every other city in Ireland without a roof over their heads.

Hear, hear.

When I hear this Government, the lavish patron of the Arts, tell my constituents in Monaghan that if they want a lane repaired, they must pay 25 per cent more than they were ever asked to pay before 1st August last, is it any wonder that I remember the words of Dean Swift " ... where savage indignation no longer rends his breast"? This Government have dragged us into the position in which the poor grow poorer while the rich grow richer——

Hear, hear.

——as the Deputies of the Fianna Fáil Party fall over themselves in hailing this Minister as the patron of the arts. The first function of a decent Government is not to be the patron but the protector of the poor——

Hear, hear.

——and the Government who run away from that responsibility and drape themselves in the leather and prunella of a patron of the arts with £35,000 are a disgrace to this country. We all know perfectly well that £35,000 one way or another in a Budget of £220 million is an insignificant sum. We all know very well that £35,000 will not provide houses for the poor of this city and remember that unless you have four children today— perhaps Deputy Casey has forgotten this——

Deputy Casey is well able to remember his own facts, without any prompting from Deputy Dillon.

Deputy Casey did not remember them this morning. Unless you have four children in the city of Dublin today, your name will not be put on the list for a house.

The Deputy may not discuss every aspect of administration on this.

Surely I am entitled to discuss priorities?

The Deputy may discuss the proposed expenditure——

Yes, the proposed expenditure of £35,000, and the smarmy hypocrisy of Fianna Fáil Deputies.

——but not in relation to every other part of Government administration.

I am referring to the propriety of giving priority to Fianna Fáil patronage of the arts above the obligation of the Government to give protection to the poor.

The Deputy has said that but he may not go into the administration of——

May I not speak of the woman sitting on a doorstep in Mountjoy Square, evicted from her home because it was falling down and with nowhere to go while Deputy Healy is rejoicing about the provision of £35,000 for the patronage of the Arts? This House, I sometimes think, is going mad. I am entitled, I respectfully submit, to call the attention of this House to the feelings of the ordinary people whom we are here charged to represent. It may be clear to us who are dealing in hundreds of millions that £35,000 is a trivial sum but I ask ordinary Deputies to consider the reaction of a man and woman with a family living in one room who cannot get a house and have no prospect of getting a house on hearing that here in Dáil Éireann for 2½ hours we have spent our time pouring unctuous praise upon the senior Deputy for Cork city——

Only since 12 noon.

——because he presents himself as the patron of the Arts. I warn Dáil Éireann that there are limits beyond which you cannot push people. I warn Dáil Éireann that the time is coming to pause. We are slowly drifting from one folly to another. We have settled institutions in this country, thanks be to God, but we have them because our people have always hitherto believed that, whether they agree or disagree with the majority, the people were doing the best they could according to their lights. I do not believe that Deputy Healy misunderstands me when I put it to him that, from the point of view of the individual who is suffering acute hardship at the present moment, there must be a sense of frustration and exasperation that money can be made available for a project of this character when it is not available for the relief of his personal distress. Now, multiply it by 40,000 families up and down the country and think of the ferment which you are starting in our society. I ask any Deputy of the Labour Party or of the Fianna Fáil Party if he would not have sympathy with an ordinary person who feels that intense sense of exasperation.

We would not know anything about that. We would have to get it from Deputy Dillon.

I do not blame Deputy Casey if he feels his conscience twiddle. The purpose of my observations is to make his conscience stir.

He has a conscience; he is not lost yet.

It is an interesting thing that the tough back-benchers in Fianna Fáil are silent but that Deputy Casey is uneasy. Good: that is what Dean Swift meant when he thanked God that he had gone "where savage indignation no longer rends his breast."

The Importance of Being Oscar is lost.

We should bring Deputy Dillon down to Cork next Sunday evening to put on a show.

The Importance of Being Ernest.

The importance of being earnest is something I would expect the Fianna Fáil Party to despise but they may discover to their cost that it is the most important thing in life to be earnest of the responsibilities which bring men here. I want to say that it shocks me profoundly that we could listen to the smarmy hypocrisy we have listened to this morning about this patron of the Arts who tells us, not in Dáil Éireann but at dinners and dogfights and anywhere else he can get an invitation——

I do not seek invitations. I go as part of my duty and the Deputy did so, too, when he was a Minister.

——that he cannot provide money for work that is really urgent in the social pattern in which we live. Now, here is a comparison I want to make. When the Taoiseach or the Minister have to deal with the reasons why they cannot provide money to house the people or to help the poor, it is to the chamber of commerce they go as guests where they can confidently expect that no acrimonious voice is raised——

I do not see how this arises.

——but when they come to announce they are going to spend £35,000 on the Opera House, which represents the centrepiece of the Minister for Finance's constituency, it is not to a dinner or a dogfight he goes but to Dáil Éireann, in the certainty——

Do not distort the position.

In the certainty that he will have assembled behind him——

Political distortion of the facts—the Deputy knows I must come into Dáil Éireann for this money.

In the certainty that he will have behind him a chorus of approbation which he has mobilised from the back benches of his Party and in the hope, though surprisingly realised, that there would be approbation, unqualified approbation from the ranks of the Labour Party.

Not surprising really.

It surprises me—not a bad showing at all but none the less surprising. However, it is no harm that even in this tumult of rejoicing, there should be somebody to remind Dáil Éireann that there are homeless people who cannot get houses, that there are small farmers up and down the country who must pay 25 per cent more than they would have ever paid before for the minor relief schemes of the Minister's colleague while the Minister is warning us that he and the Government to which he belongs have brought this country into such straits. Vital services must be ruthlessly curtailed and, in the eloquent language of the Minister for Health who sits behind him, the blow torch must be applied to all expenditure now.

I thought Deputy Corish would be astonished to hear this. We are rejoicing over this benefaction for the Cork Opera House. We are glad to know Cork will have an Opera House and when the Minister goes down to open it——

The President——

I have no observation to make on that exalted office in the House. The Minister no doubt will be there——

I hope to.

He will ask himself, no doubt, the question Christopher Wren asked himself: Si monumentum requiris, circumspice. On that occasion I understand Deputy Casey will forbear from bringing him to the slums of Cork. They will concentrate their attention on the Opera House and rejoice that we are affluent enough to enjoy this development of our cultural resources while those who are hungry, cold or need shelter should join Deputy Crowley in the gallery and relieve their hunger, their cold and their homelessness by singing choruses with him.

Mr. O'Malley

It is like Little Malcolm and His Struggle Against the Eunuchs. Deputy Barrett has ruined himself for all time in Cork.

Mr. Barrett

I would much prefer to go down myself than purchase popularity.

Will Deputies please restrain themselves?

I shall not detain the House very long. First of all, I should like to welcome this Vote of £35,000 towards the Cork Opera House. In Cork it was a very sad day when the Opera House was burned down and now we are very glad that it has been replaced and will be opening on next Sunday night. I should like to ask the Opposition where they stand. Deputy Barrett first moved in opposition to it and then withdrew, as did also his Party. Deputy Dillon then took up the opposition—it shows where Deputy Dillon stands with his Party. We have been listening to Deputy Dillon speaking about this and bringing housing into it. When I was young, I remember Deputy Dillon saying: "Go over and join England". I suppose Deputy Dillon could get the VC, or maybe go to Buckingham Palace to get the MBE with the Beatles last week.

What about Lord Harrington, and Major Gardiner who bought 1,000 acres of land in Limerick? You will not——

Deputy L'Estrange will please restrain himself or he will have to leave the House. If the Deputy does not want to listen, he has a remedy. Deputy Meaney is speaking on a matter which does not arise on the Estimate. He should confine himself to the Estimate.

Again, in Cork, the old Opera House was not confined entirely to opera and I look forward to seeing the very same performances in the new Opera House.

I do not want to make any speech on this proposal but I want to add my voice in protest to the paying of £35,000 for an Opera House when I know that all over the country the building of vocational schools has been suspended, when I know that after ten years' struggle when we had accepted the lowest tender for 152 houses in Swords, it was turned down because there was no money and when I know that every county manager in Ireland has been told not to sign any contracts for housing.

Is this in order in view of the ruling of the Chair?

Then we come in here and listen to a proposal by the Minister for Finance to pay £35,000 for an Opera House. Surely, as Deputy Dillon says, we must have some sort of priority arrangement which will eliminate this sort of thing. In spite of the fact that all of us feel that Cork should have its Opera House and want to see Cork getting its Opera House, we certainly consider it should not come at a time when the building of all local authority houses has been suspended or stopped for want of money. I think we have gone mad.

Hear, hear.

I never saw such a display of wishing to have a leg in both camps as I have seen here today from the other side. Either we want Cork Opera House to be built or we do not, and I deplore the attempt of Deputy Barrett to try to suggest that my order of priorities is not correct. Deputy Barrett and Deputy Dillon know in their heart of hearts that there is no relevance in the case they made about housing and the sum sought here for Cork Opera House. I shall not delay the House by talking about housing but there is provision for housing that comes out of our Capital Budget and that provision is greater than ever this year at £31.6 million.

It is not coming.

It is more than 33? per cent of the whole Capital Budget.

But it is not being paid

It certainly is being paid.

It is not being paid.

Speaking of priorities, in October, 1963, this House voted in favour of making provision such as this for the rebuilding of Cork Opera House and it is perfectly consistent with the unanimous decision of the House then that we should fulfil our undertaking and finish the job.

This sum of money comes from what every Deputy knows are Funds of Suitors which were made available for purposes such as this, and only purposes such as this, by Act of the Oireachtas. It is a small sum which accumulates by way of small amounts from month to month and year to year. It is in no way suitable for purposes other than those of a once-for-all type like this involving limited expenditure. It could not in any way be applied for such general purposes as housing or roadmaking. The moneys originally provided were committed as far back as over two years ago when the rebuilding of the Opera House had commenced.

I had been informed by the committee—it is hardly right to call it a company, even though it must be a company to conform with the Act, because the individual members of Cork Opera House Company will never see a penny piece as a result of their contribution and their work——

Mr. Barrett

I think the Minister will agree I did not suggest that.

I am not suggesting that but the Deputy in reply to interruptions by the Minister for Health did say that popularity was being purchased.

Mr. Barrett

I said that, when the Minister for Health made an absolutely unwarranted remark. He tried to tell me what my constituency felt about the Opera House.

Does one untruth or reckless allegation justify another?

Mr. Barrett

If the Minister takes it that I meant he was personally purchasing popularity by that money, I can withdraw it.

I am glad of that. However, the remark was made and naturally I have to comment on it. I am glad the Deputy is withdrawing it. On the general merits of the proposition and the extent to which the ordinary people of Cork felt about, and subscribed their own money for, the rebuilding of Cork Opera House, I can say I was present at the burning of the old Opera House. I stood in the rain on the steps of the Dominican Church on Pope's Quay with poor people who came from the surrounding area and out to Gurranebraher. I saw tears pouring from the eyes of old and young who regarded the Opera House, not as a centre of culture but as something that was part of their very lives.

I realised how they could feel that because I regarded the Cork Opera House as an essential part of life. I had joined the boys in the "gods" and sung with them. I deplore any suggestion that the ordinary people of Cork are not interested in Cork Opera House and in whatever moneys the Government can supply for the completion of the job. The ordinary poor people of Cork had been going to the Opera House, to the "gods" and to the pit and supporting in a generous way the many local societies that put on presentations there. I believe, and it has been proved by the contributions of these poor people, that they, to this very day, wish the Opera House to be opened on Sunday as is proposed and I am informed by the company who manage the affairs of the Opera House that if this money were not forthcoming, the opening would not be possible.

Mr. Barrett

I think the Minister will agree that could not be the case because they have not got the money yet.

The Deputy is usually well able to marshal facts when he has them and when they are available, he is usually able to absorb them, but I told the Deputy in my opening speech that I informed the Cork Opera House Company that I would move the Supplementary Estimate and I gave them a letter to that effect so that they could in the meantime go to their bankers and get temporary accommodation which I understand they did in order to pay off the outstanding sum. I mentioned that in my opening remarks. Therefore, the Deputy's observation is not correct.

I do not want to go into any more detail about this but merely to say that I am gratified by the contributions made by the Members of my own side of the House, and in particular the contribution by Deputy Casey. I am not putting myself forward as a patron of the Arts as Deputy Dillon says. Indeed I am not; I am far from that; I could well be described as a Philistine but I do like stage performances, whether dramatic or musical. I have no desire to cloak myself with such a description and no desire to purchase popularity, but I am certainly glad and proud as a Corkman that this has been possible and glad I was able, in my own way, to make some contribution administratively.

It could very well be suggested, and Deputy Dillon seemed to imply, that this being in the heart of my constituency and I being a Minister from Cork, facilitated the provision that this House made for rebuilding Cork Opera House, but having regard to the wonderful effort by the people of Cork, I believe that any Government would have been impressed and glad to endorse the action of the people of Cork by helping in the cost of such a venture, if only as an example to similar facilities in other parts of the country.

The action of the Cork people has been further endorsed by the gracious acceptance by the President of the invitation to perform the official opening. Not only will people now living in Cork be grateful that this has been possible, but future generations of Cork people who have always been known for their traditional love of music and theatre generally will also be grateful for it. I repeat that I want to claim no personal credit for this but I am glad I have been able to play some small part in it. I believe that in making this provision, I am not upsetting in any way existing priorities. I know what priorities are and they are as dear to me as to Deputy Dillon and Deputy Barrett, but there has been a sequence of events here, and when the Act was originally passed, there was not the same pressure on capital funds as there is now. In any event, the capital funds which are devoted for the other purposes have no relevance to the funds of suitors out of which this sum will be paid.

Vote put and agreed to.
Vote reported and agreed to.
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