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Dáil Éireann debate -
Wednesday, 8 Feb 1967

Vol. 226 No. 6

Ceisteanna—Questions. Oral Answers. - Publication of Historical Documents.

6.

asked the Taoiseach if, in view of the recent decision of the British Government to publish historical documents including documents relating to the Treaty of 1921, the Government will consider publishing all Irish documents covering this period.

I am not aware of the particular decision of the British Government to which the Deputy refers.

It is necessary to draw a distinction between the publication of documents and the granting of access to them, for inspection. While there could be no question of our publishing all Irish documents covering the period referred to by the Deputy—which would be a task of great magnitude and largely fruitless—the Government are prepared, exceptionally, to grant access, subject to certain conditions, to the Irish documents relating to the Anglo-Irish Treaty negotiations of 1921 in the case of reliable and responsible historians.

I might also add that it was decided some months ago, in connection with the celebration of the Golden Jubilee of the Rising of 1916, to publish and to grant access to certain documents in the State Paper Office relating to 1916 and earlier years. I hope to make a more detailed announcement in this regard later this month.

Is it proposed to give access to these documents to Members of this House? Members of Parliament should have the right of access to these documents.

If some Members of this House could establish themselves as responsible historians, the matter would then be considered.

Are we not entitled to access to these documents as public representatives apart from the responsible historians aspect?

That has not been accepted.

Is it suggested that Members of this House are not entitled to see documents relating to their own House? Numerous civil servants have had the right by virtue of the fact that they are in their custody to examine these documents down the years. Is it suggested that Members of this House have a lesser right?

I would not put the rights of Deputies in issue as against the civil servants who are in charge of these documents. These are normally very senior civil servants and subject to the Official Secrets Act, so there is no question of disclosure, if that is what the Deputy suggests.

Can the Taoiseach say who decides or will decide who are reliable and responsible historians?

The Taoiseach is normally the person responsible.

The Taoiseach is aware that the British Government recently announced and, I understand, informed the Government here, that they propose to make public certain documents. If they do that, will Irish documents and information relating to the same period be made available? Will the Irish viewpoint be made available?

That is not entirely correct. The British Government decided to reduce the 50 year rule to 30 years, but there are certain documents to which that will not apply— what are known as sensitive documents to which the 100 years rule will apply.

I understand that the British Government propose to relax the 50 years rule to 30 years. In respect of the documents covered by that relaxation, is it proposed on this side to reduce the period?

We have no such proposition at the moment.

Does the Taoiseach not consider that from the historical point of view and, assuming that they are only of historical interest now, if the documents released in Britain are documents relating to the same period in Ireland, the Irish documents of that period should be released?

The documents are not released as such.

They are made available.

They are transferred from official Government custody to the Public Record Office in Britain and then made available.

Is it not manifestly highly undesirable that there should be selective access to the documents covering this period for persons no more definitively defined than "responsible historians". If it is thought desirable to make these documents available to anybody, surely they should be published in toto and made available to all; otherwise, there are bound to arise misgivings in the public mind that those who think themselves and who may be thought by others to be responsible historians are denied access while persons, who in the judgment of the Government are responsible historians——

This is developing into a debate.

I am trying to be reasonable and moderate. I understand the Taoiseach's position admirably. I think we have reached the stage in which these unhappy days are sufficiently remote to allow us to approach them dispassionately. I do not want to revive any feelings of recrimination in this matter. May I ask the Taoiseach to reconsider the matter? If the Government determine to make them available to responsible historians, will he not consider publishing them for all?

The term "responsible historians" is my own. I think there is some other definition, but the definition I have given broadly covers the sense of the other definition. Persons to whom access is given to these papers have to give certain undertakings, one of them being that they are required to show in advance the subject matter of whatever they propose to publish. In that way a check is kept on the matter that would be published as a result of giving that access. I would not like to answer by way of reply to supplementary questions that I would be prepared to review the position further. However, if after due consideration, I find some further relaxation could be given, naturally I would be glad to do so.

Perhaps the Taoiseach would discuss it with the leaders of the Parties?

May I ask the Taoiseach a question concerning the privileges of the House, arising out of his remarks? Does the Taoiseach agree there is a clear distinction between documents which are, so to speak, Government documents and documents which are documents of the House? For example, I understand the Treaty Debates to be regarded as documents of the House and it would be, I suggest to the Taoiseach—and I want to know if he will agree—a matter for the House and not for the Government to decide on their publication. I think the normal procedure is that it is referred to the Committee on Procedure and Privilages. Does the Taoiseach agree there is that distinction?

I do agree there is such a distinction. There is another distinction in that there are certain Cabinet documents which any Government of the day can freely disclose as soon as they want to.

Surely debates of the House?

They have been made available.

I am calling question No. 7.

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