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Dáil Éireann debate -
Wednesday, 12 Apr 1967

Vol. 227 No. 9

Ceisteanna—Questions. Oral Answers. - Old Age Pension Means Test.

46.

asked the Minister for Social Welfare if he will consider altering the regulations for the assessment of means for old age pension purposes, in order to bring them into line with the means test for widows' pensions.

I presume the Deputy is referring to the different methods of assessing capital for purposes of old age and widows' pensions. I dealt with this matter in a reply which I gave to a question on the subject on 16th February and for the reasons I then gave I do not think the introduction of amending legislation would be justified.

Is the Minister aware that, in assessing the value of capital, the first £100 of a widow's non-contributory pension is excluded and the remainder calculated at five per cent? In the case of a widow who becomes eligible for a non-contributory old age pension, the first £25 is excluded, the next £375 is calculated at five per cent and anything in excess of £400 is calculated at ten per cent. I have a case in mind of a widow who had a non-contributory widows' pension of 31s week but who, when she became eligible for the non-contributory old age pension, got the small amount of only 17/6. Surely a widow at 70 needs the same as she had at 69? Why, in any case, should it be reduced? Would the Minister consider introducing a system under which both would be on the same basis in respect of the valuation of capital?

Legislation would be required. I explained this here before in reply to a question by Deputy Belton. Under the 1952 Act, the method of assessing means for both widows and old age pensioners was, as the Deputy has stated, that the first £25 is ignored, the next £375 is assessed at five per cent and the remainder at ten per cent. Under the 1963 Act, in the interests of liberalising the means test in favour of widows, it was changed in respect of widows only, excluding the first £100 of capital, £100 capital in respect of each qualified dependant child as well, and the balance at five per cent of the entire estate. This was considered essential and it was a step very much in the right direction in favour of widows. Up until then both categories were assessed at the same rate. Whether we should go further in liberalising assessment for non-contributory old age pensions is another question. All this is based on a factual assessment of what annuity a particular amount of capital can buy. There is a realistic assessment. I am not saying it could not be liberalised but I am not prepared to do it now.

I would ask the Minister to consider this because surely the widow at 69 years of age——

That is repetition.

At 70 she surely needs the same amount of money to live on.

That is a statement, not a question.

Perhaps the Minister would consider that?

Would the Minister accept as a general precept that at a certain stage a lady's age ceases to grow, that all widows remain at 69 forever?

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