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Dáil Éireann debate -
Tuesday, 30 May 1967

Vol. 228 No. 13

Committee on Finance. - Vote 37—Agriculture.

I move:

That a sum not exceeding £40,037,000 be granted to defray the charge which will come in course of payment during the year ending on the 31st day of March, 1968, for the Salaries and Expenses of the Office of the Minister for Agriculture and Fisheries, including certain Services administered by that Office, and for payment of certain Subsidies and sundry Grants-in-Aid.

The total net Estimate for 1967-68 of £40,037,000 shows an increase of £4,728,000 on the original Estimate for 1966-67 which was £35,309,000. The final total Estimate for 1966-67, including the Supplementary Estimate, amounted to £38,476,000.

As compared with the amounts voted in 1966-67, the extra money which I am now asking the House to vote this year is accounted for mainly by increases in the following subheads: N.1—Marketing of Dairy Produce; K.14—Brucellosis Eradication Scheme; K.9—Lime and Fertiliser Subsidies; K.7—Farm Buildings Scheme and Water Supplies; K.8—Land Project; K.24—Grants for the Glasshouse Industry and I.5—Grant-in-Aid to An Foras Talúntais. Reduced expenditure is foreseen this year on the Calved Heifer Scheme and on the support of pigmeat exports and this is reflected in the provisions shown for subheads K.15 and K.19 respectively.

Notes on the main activities of my Department have been circulated to Deputies; I trust these will be of help to them in the debate on the Estimate.

Before dealing in detail with the main provisions of the Estimate, I would like to comment generally on the state of agriculture and on recent developments in the industry.

Gross agricultural output in 1966, including the value of livestock changes, was slightly below the level of the preceding year in volume and £5 million lower in value. This decrease was due mainly to two factors. First, the very unfavourable weather throughout the Spring hampered the sowing of crops, affected milk production temporarily and resulted in cattle not reaching marketable condition as early as usual—a position aggravated not only by the bank strike and the credit squeeze but also by the shipping strike. Secondly, during the second half of the year, difficulties in export markets, arising from circumstances over which we had no control, led to a fall in the price of cattle and since cattle are the major item in agricultural output, this resulted in the value of gross output being substantially lower than had been expected. Crops, however, benefited from the favourable weather during the growing and harvesting period and yields were higher. With the upward trend in farming expenses continuing, the net result was that total family farm income fell by about £6 million or by about 4½ per cent. The figures take account of the value of changes in livestock on farms as between the two years; actual cash income received by farmers during 1966 was considerably higher than in 1965.

The outturn would have been more serious had it not been for the special measures introduced by the Government during the year, namely, an increase of 2d a gallon in the price of milk from the end of May, 1966, the extension of guarantee payments to exports of beef and lamb to the UK in excess of the quantities covered by the Free Trade Area Agreement, the scheme of temporary headage payments for fat cattle exported to Britain last autumn, the introduction of the farrowed sow scheme and the mountain sheep subsidy schemes as well as special credit schemes.

During the year there has been a lot of misleading talk about agriculture and particularly agricultural prices being in a depressed state. I freely acknowledge that agriculture did not make the progress which we all would like but the facts belie the suggestion that agricultural prices generally were depressed. In fact, increased prices operated for milk, wheat, sugar beet and pigs and the general level of agricultural prices, as shown by the agricultural price index, was only slightly below that of 1965. When it is remembered that the agricultural price index which had hardly moved at all between 1953 and 1963, rose by 11 per cent in 1964 and by a further four per cent in 1965, it will be realised that it is an exaggeration to talk of agricultural prices being depressed. Indeed, had it not been for the drop in cattle prices in 1966 from the high level of 1965 the index would have been above the 1965 level. Despite the fall in cattle prices on export markets, it is gratifying to note that the total value of agricultural exports continued to increase reaching the record level of £123 million or seven per cent more than in 1965.

In agriculture, it is always hazardous to attempt to predict what the future will bring—even in the short-term—but the present indications are that 1967 should be a considerably better year for farming. The weather so far has been relatively good and so has the market situation for cattle. While the January 1967 livestock returns suggest that the growth in cattle stocks which was such a marked feature of recent years has lost some of its momentum, I am confident that, with the substantial and indeed, increased inducements available to farmers, cattle output will continue its upward trend.

The prospects for milk production are very good and while we, like some other countries, have not yet recovered from the cyclical decline in pig numbers, I am hopeful that, with the extension of the period of operation of the farrowed sow scheme and the recent increase in the guaranteed price for pigs, it will not be long before our pig numbers show an increase. The January 1967 livestock enumeration showed gilts in pig to be about 20 per cent higher than in January, 1966. The indications are that the decline in tillage which has been a feature of recent years has been arrested and that we will have increased acreages particularly of wheat and beet this year. If, therefore, we get reasonable weather during the rest of the year the prospects are that farmers will have a good year financially and they should more than recover the ground lost in 1966.

The extra provisions made in this year's Budget to assist farmers clearly demonstrate the Government's concern to increase agricultural output and income and to supplement the earnings of low-income farmers. The increase in the price of milk will benefit a large proportion of farmers and will contribute to expansion of the cattle industry. The new scheme of grants for milk coolers is designed to enable many smaller farmers to qualify for the creamery milk quality bonus. The increase in the guaranteed price for pigs will encourage producers to plan with more confidence for increased production and should again be of special benefit to the smaller farmer. The complete derating of agricultural holdings of £20 land valuation or less will benefit a vast number of farmers in the category most in need of State help and puts the question of rates on smaller holdings outside the realm of controversy. The decision to introduce an incentive bonus scheme for small farmers arising out of the recommendations of the Two-Tier Milk Price Committee also breaks new ground inasmuch as it will be designed to provide special direct assistance to farmers who increase their scale of production on a planned efficient basis.

The progressive expansion of Government assistance for agriculture is evidenced by the growing amount coming under the heading "State expenditure in relation to agriculture". The figure as published in the Budget tables this year was £60 million. Including the extra assistance provided in the Budget, the actual figure for 1967-68 is now estimated to be more than £64 million. Even if we go back no further than 1960-61, we can see how sharply this expenditure has risen. In that year, the figure was £26 million which in turn was far above the figure for 1956-57 at £17 million. In view of the rapid rise in State expenditure connected with agriculture I thought it well to have an examination made of the various forms which State assistance to agriculture takes, especially our price support and productivity schemes, with the object of ensuring that we are getting the best value for money and that in particular an equitable proportion goes to the smaller farmers. This examination is proceeding.

In mentioning these figures for State aids, it is not my wish to suggest that the amount now being provided is not fully justified on economic as well as social grounds but, as efforts are made from time to time to belittle the Government's assistance to agriculture, I feel it is necessary to put things in their proper perspective. Total State expenditure on agriculture now accounts for nearly 20 per cent of total Exchequer spending. In considering this figure, however, one must constantly bear in mind the importance of agriculture in the Irish economy. It accounts for one-fifth of the national income, provides employment for some 30 per cent of the total labour force and contributes some 55 per cent of our total exports.

But the real significance of agriculture in our economy cannot be judged solely by looking at it in the narrow sense of what is directly produced from the soil by way of crops and livestock. One must also have regard to the vast complex of industries and services which are so dependent on agriculture; for example, the food processing industries, the agricultural machinery industry, the fertiliser industry and the transport of agricultural products. One would need to add the output of these industries to that of agriculture to see the real significance of agriculture in the whole economy. The food processing industries alone which comprise mainly those industries engaged in the processing of meat, dairy products, fruit and vegetables, grain milling, bread and flour confectionery, are estimated to have accounted for over one-third of the gross output of all manufacturing industries and for nearly one quarter of the total employment in these industries.

On the trade side if one included exports of certain goods whose raw materials are derived from agriculture, such as chocolate crumb, beer, and food confectionery to mention but a few, the percentage of the country's total exports attributable to agriculture would be up to 70 per cent. I thought it necessary to make these few comments at the outset because one frequently hears quite a lot of misinformed comment about agricultural output.

The reactivation of Ireland's application for membership of the European Economic Community is an event of some significance for our agricultural industry. At this juncture it is not possible, of course, to say what will be the outcome of the applications by us and the other applicant countries but any prospect of participation in the Community's agricultural arrangements must be welcomed by us. Pending Ireland's entry into the EEC we must so plan the organisation and future development of the agricultural industry that, when we do enter, Irish agriculture will be as well prepared as is possible to meet the conditions that will be encountered within the Community.

While membership of the EEC would benefit the more important branches of Irish agriculture, it will not of itself provide an automatic remedy for all the problems with which our agriculture has been faced in the past. The EEC market is highly competitive and only the progressive farmer who is geared to the highest level of efficiency and ready to satisfy the exacting standards of that market will reap the full benefits of membership. I am confident, however, that, given the opportunity, our farmers generally will be able to measure up to what is required and to adjust themselves to the changes in farming patterns which will inevitably follow on our entry.

Membership of the EEC will likewise call for the highest levels of efficiency in our processing and marketing arrangements. Full use must be made of the time available before entry into the Community to carry out any necessary re-organisation or improvements in order to raise efficiency, increase our competitiveness and generally strengthen our export trading. In this connection the establishment of the Anglo-Irish Free Trade Area last year has served a dual purpose by providing us with guaranteed and improved access to our main market for agricultural, horticultural and fishery products, while at the same time strengthening our main export industry and thereby putting us in a better position to meet EEC conditions.

As already announced, the National Agricultural Council recently decided that a detailed study should be undertaken of the implications for Irish agriculture of membership of the EEC. A special study group has been set up for this purpose in my Department and it is the intention to associate recognised outside experts with the group's work.

The Kennedy Round of Trade negotiations in the GATT is now drawing to a conclusion. It had been hoped that these negotiations, in which Ireland is participating as an applicant for accession to GATT, would have had some positive effects in a general liberalising of world trade in agricultural products. Unfortunately, this has not been the case. The Kennedy Round has produced no significant results in regard to international trade in meat and dairy products, which are our main agricultural interests and indeed it is doubtful if the final outcome of the negotiations will involve any appreciable benefit for Ireland in the agricultural sector. Therefore, until such time as we secure access to the agricultural arrangements of the EEC, it looks as if our agricultural exports will continue to be faced with the numerous and varied restrictions which the main importing countries for one reason or another maintain against imports of temperate agricultural products.

The virtual closing of the EEC markets to imports of cattle and beef, which had such serious effects on the cattle trade in the second half of 1966, is still a matter of serious concern to us. A full levy of about £30 per beast at present applies to imports into our main EEC market, Germany, and this with the import duty of 16 per cent makes trade completely uneconomic. So far as the EEC is concerned, therefore, it is not possible to be optimistic about the prospects for exports of cattle and beef this year. The guide prices for home-produced cattle in the Member States was raised last month and this means that import levies come into operation at higher levels of domestic prices than was the case previously. Because of these high protective levies we cannot hope to have a steady and remunerative cattle and beef trade with the EEC until we ourselves enter the Community. At present steps are being taken by the Community in the context of the Kennedy Round to facilitate imports of cows for processing and frozen beef but these are not likely to help us in this country and we have made our views on this known to the EEC Commission and to each of the Member States.

The sluggish demand from Britain for Irish stores was another major factor in the difficult cattle situation last year. I am glad to say that the store demand has improved considerably and that store exports so far this year are well above those in the early part of last year. Indeed, the increase in store exports has more than compensated for the decline in exports of fat cattle to the Continent. Exports of carcase beef, too, are substantially higher than in the early part of 1966. Up to 30th April a total of 104,000 fat bullocks and heifers had been slaughtered at meat factories this year as compared with 40,000 in the corresponding period in 1966.

A very welcome development during 1966 was the revival in our exports of manufacturing-type beef to the United States which provides such a valuable outlet for the cull cows from the dairy herd. Exports to the US during 1964 and 1965 had declined largely because of a temporary falling-off in the availability of cows for slaughter here and to some extent because of the existence at that time of more remunerative markets in Europe. The quantity exported in 1965 was only 4,000 tons but in 1966 exports reached 18,000 tons and it is confidently expected that the trade will develop still further during 1967. We estimate that exports this year will reach 30,000 tons which would approach the level of the previous record high exports in the 1961-1963 period. From January to May, 1967, we have already exported almost 14,000 tons as compared with 3,700 tons in the same five months of 1966.

During the past year, considerable efforts have been made to develop new markets for cattle. About 10,000 young feeder cattle were sent to Egypt but this trade has been dormant for some time now. About 4,000 young feeder cattle were exported to Italy from December onwards and my Department is at present actively exploring with exporters here and with Italian importers the prospects for continuing this trade.

I have already taken the opportunity of suggesting to producers and traders that they should take advantage, so far as this is practicable, of the seasonally better prices obtaining in the first part of the year and should try to distribute marketings more evenly through the year. The over-loading of the market in the months of September to November when price conditions both here and in Britain tend to be weakest is in nobody's interest.

I have been keeping in close contact with the British Minister of Agriculture, Fisheries and Food about the cattle and beef market situation. In view of the importance to both countries of the Irish exports of cattle and beef it is essential that such contact should be maintained and that any possibilities of fostering and developing agricultural trade in the interests of the two countries should be fully explored. Arising out of my recent discussions with Mr. Peart, Irish and British officials met in Dublin last week to examine the possibilities for further measures to introduce more stability into the trade. A further meeting of officials is taking place in London this week. At this juncture, I do not wish to speculate as to the eventual outcome of my discussions with Mr. Peart.

I have been considering various aspects of the marketing of agricultural produce and, as already announced, I propose to introduce at an early date a marketing bill which will provide for the licensing of livestock marts. I believe the time has come when such legislation is necessary.

On the whole, our cattle industry is in a very healthy state with more stock on farms than ever before. Cow numbers, after spectacular increases in 1964, 1965 and 1966, now show some evidence of levelling off. Against this background I have discussed the operation of the Calved Heifer Scheme with the National Agricultural Council. The council recommended that it should be continued, but that, if possible, the administration of the scheme should be tightened up to discourage the "in and out" people. The council also recommended that the Department should consider how best the scheme might be operated to maintain livestock quality. The scheme will be revised to take account of these recommendations. Despite the various criticisms made against it, there is no doubt that the scheme was largely responsible for the remarkable increase in the country's cow numbers and can be regarded as a very considerable success.

During 1966, the number of cows artificially inseminated was 930,000, representing about 60 per cent of the cows of the country as compared with 700,000 in 1963. While Friesian inseminations accounted for 55 per cent of all inseminations in 1965 they only accounted for 42.5 per cent of all inseminations in 1966 although the Friesian remained the most popular individual breed. This swing from Friesians went almost entirely to Herefords, which increased from 196,000 inseminations in 1965, 21.4 per cent of total, to 309,000 in 1966, 33.2 per cent of total. The position of the other breeds was largely unchanged but it is worthy of note that interest in the Charolais breed is increasing.

Reference to cattle breeding policy raises the question of progeny testing. I am convinced of the necessity of expanding the system of progeny testing to enable our breeding stocks to be quickly and accurately evaluated on a national scale. I am having this whole question examined and will have it discussed in the National Agricultural Council following which I hope to be in a position to put forward a scheme, which will be to the benefit of the industry and acceptable to all the interests concerned.

It has for many years been the policy of my Department to improve our native herds by the importation of selected breeding stocks and strains. In recent years, the popularity of the Aberdeen Angus breed, which enjoyed an important place in the cattle economy of the country particularly in the west and north-west, has waned on grounds of size, scope and growth. Last year, officers of my Department went to the USA where they saw strains of Angus which they considered could substantially improve our native stocks. Following this visit, arrangements have been made, in conjunction with private breeders and AI stations, to import a number of Angus animals including four or five bulls from the USA. These animals will arrive next month and will be placed in quarantine in Spike Island where exhaustive veterinary tests will be carried out before they are released. They have, of course, already been subjected to stringent veterinary tests in the US. This import has also raised questions of Herd Book registration and an Irish Angus Herd Book has been opened.

I am particularly concerned about the problem of scrub bulls and I have initiated moves for an intensive combout of such bulls. I am sure that all who are genuinely interested in the welfare of our cattle industry agree with me in this matter and I would ask for their fullest co-operation in helping to deal with this problem.

The provision in Subhead N1 for price support for milk through the medium of the grant to An Bord Bainne for export support and direct payments to creameries in respect of the milk price and quality milk allowances shows a substantial increase over last year. The total provision, including some minor items, amounts to £15,400,000, an increase of £2¾ million on last year's original estimate and of £1½ million on last year's final provision.

The expenditure on the milk price allowance has been calculated at the rate of 6d per gallon but, as Deputies are aware, this allowance was increased by 1d per gallon from 1st May, 1967. This increase will represent a further £1.6 million for the part of the financial year from 1st May and provision for this will have to be made in a Supplementary Estimate in due course.

The total cost of the Exchequer assistance to milk this year will accordingly be about £17 million, or about 9d per gallon. This very large sum shows in the clearest possible fashion the importance which the Government attach to the dairying industry.

Total milk deliveries to creameries in 1966 amounted to 411 million gallons as compared with 392 million gallons in 1965. So far this year deliveries have shown an increase of over 14 per cent on the level in the corresponding part of 1966. It is expected that overall production in 1967 will be well above the 1966 level and will establish a further all-time record.

The results of the Creamery Milk Quality Grading Scheme indicate that 48 per cent of the milk qualified for the special allowance during the past year as against 42 per cent for the previous year. The results are very encouraging and it is expected that about 55 per cent of the milk delivered to creameries will reach the requisite standard in the current year. The increase in the quality allowance from 1d to 2d per gallon which took place on 1st April makes it well worth while for every milk producer to make a special effort to qualify for the allowance. In order to assist the small producers, I have introduced a scheme of grants for the provision of milk coolers on small farms for which a sum of £100,000 was set aside in the Budget.

In July last, my Department introduced a Cheese Grading Scheme and I am very happy to say that the scheme has proved eminently successful. The improved quality of Irish cheese has attracted considerable trade interest in Britain and has resulted in improved prices, thereby reducing the cost of the export subsidy on the product.

As Deputies are aware, the study group appointed to consider all aspects of a two-tier system of payment for milk delivered to creameries has submitted a summary report. The group concluded that a two-tier milk price system was not the way to improve the income of the small-scale dairy farmer but rather that a bonus incentive scheme should be introduced for all small farmers who are potentially viable to enable them to secure the optimum returns from the resources of land and labour available to them. The proposal is that a grant of £50 would be paid in each of any four years in a six-year period to those who, with the assistance of their advisory officers, aim at increasing output levels to be decided in the case of each type of farming system. For instance, 7,000 gallons of quality milk would be the aim in the case of dairy farmers and comparable production criteria would be used in the case of other farming systems including mixed systems. My Department is making a detailed study of the group's proposals including the question of comparable production criteria for application to the various farming systems and the matter is also to be examined by the National Agricultural Council. It will be recalled that an initial sum of £250,000 was provided for this scheme in the recent Budget.

In connection with the Second Programme for Economic Expansion, the Government decided that the Irish Agricultural Organisation Society should be given the task of encouraging re-organisation of the dairying industry. A plan illustrative of a possible form of re-organisation of the industry was prepared by the society and circulated in February, 1966, for consideration by the creamery societies. The IAOS plan greatly stimulated interest in the subject of re-organisation and there now seems to be a growing acceptance of the desirability of rationalisation of the creamery industry. At its recent meeting the National Agricultural Council considered this matter and decided that it would be desirable to have a special study undertaken of the present position and recommendations made on the type of reorganisation best calculated to meet the needs of the future. Preparations for a study on the lines suggested by the Council are now being made.

The Mountain Sheep Subsidy Schemes, which were introduced last autumn and which for the first time gave direct financial assistance to mountain sheep farmers, evoked wide interest. My Department received many suggestions on ways in which the schemes could be made even more effective. The schemes were discussed by the National Agricultural Council in the light of the experience gained last year, and an amended scheme is now being drawn up, details of which will be announced as soon as possible.

During the year the reports of the Committee on Wool Marketing and of the Survey Team on Horse Breeding were published and the recommendations made have been considered by my Department. Arising out of the recommendations of the Wool Committee my Department is preparing legislative proposals on the marketing of wool. The recommendations in the Horse Breeding Report have necessitated consultations with the various interests concerned. These consultations are in progress but it will take some further time before final decisions can be taken.

A sum of £1.4 million is being provided under subhead K. 19 for pigmeat export support in the current year. This compares with an expenditure of £1.2 million in 1966-67. Pig deliveries to bacon factories in 1966 amounted to 1.65 million head, which was second only to the record level of 1.8 million in 1965. The decline which set in during 1966 has not yet ended but the expectation is that the upturn will take place later in the year. Cycles in production are a feature of the pig industry in every country and over the past year production in Britain and some Western European countries has been passing through the same low point of the cycle as has our industry here.

With a view to encouraging increased production, I have increased the guaranteed minimum prices for all the better grades of pigs by 6/- per cwt. liveweight as from 1st May. This will ensure that when pig supplies increase, prices will continue to be maintained at improved minimum levels and so producers can now expand output with still greater confidence. Also, with a view to helping pig producers, I have extended to June, 1968 the period of operation of the Sow Headage Payments Scheme, which was due to end next September. This scheme is being well availed of and in the eight months since its inception we have paid subsidy on a total of 75,000 sows.

The measures which my Department and the Pigs and Bacon Commission have been taking to improve the quality, presentation and marketing of our bacon have been meeting with success and have been reflected in the price of Irish bacon on the British market which has improved in comparison with the prices for bacon supplied by our competitors there. Twelve months ago the price of our top-quality bacon in Britain was 15/-per cwt. lower than Danish, 10/- per cwt. lower than British home bacon and the same as that of the Six Counties. In contrast last week the price for our bacon in Britain was only 5/- per cwt. below the Danish but 5/-and 7/- per cwt. respectively above British and Six County bacon.

I have been coming to the view in recent months that some basic changes may be necessary to ensure the future prosperity of the pigs and bacon industry, particularly in the context of the competitive conditions that will exist for both our producers and processors on Ireland's entry into the EEC. Already, I have had a study made of the pig price/feed price relationship, and the question of changes in the marketing arrangements for pigs is being considered by my Department and the Pigs and Bacon Commission. This whole question will also be examined by the NAC following which I hope to be in a position to reach conclusions as to the changes in the organisation of the industry which might be desirable.

Before leaving the subject of pigs, I would like to stress that increased pig production is desirable not only as a means of increasing farmers' income but also in view of the fact that the present level of production is substantially below the capacity of our processing plants. Moreover, it is important for us to fill our bacon quota in the British market to which we also have unrestricted access for our surplus pigmeat in the form of pork. I would, accordingly, urge farmers to plan increased production secure in the knowledge that good prices are available to them for quality pigs.

The most notable feature of the poultry industry has been the rapid expansion in broiler production in recent years. This expansion continued in 1966 when production just passed the ten-million mark. This represents an increase of 34 per cent over the 1965 figure which was 7,500,000, and a ten-fold increase over the last eight years. The indications are that there will probably be a further rise in broiler consumption in 1967. Some of the world's best strains of broiler stock which have been imported by commercial interests over the last few years are now available to growers here. Last year arrangements were made for a survey of the position and prospects of our poultry and egg industry by two outside experts. The recommendations made by these experts are currently being examined.

Under subhead K.12 I am providing a sum of £2,363,000 to meet the cost of the Bovine Tuberculosis Eradication Scheme. Against this expenditure there is an appropriation-in-aid of £463,000 under subhead P.18, leaving a net estimated expenditure of £1,900,000. The greater part of this is in respect of veterinary surgeons' fees and the disposal of reactors discovered in check testing the country's herds. This check testing will, of course, continue to be necessary if the tuberculosis free status of our cattle is to be maintained.

The campaign for the eradication of brucellosis is forging ahead. I hope soon to be able to declare County Donegal a brucellosis-free area. Four other counties are under test and testing will commence in another five counties this year. The gross provision for the scheme this year is £948,000 but estimated receipts of £198,000 from the disposal of reactors leaves the net expenditure at £750,000. My Department is examining the possibility of speeding up the timetable of the eradication programme for the remainder of the country.

While the campaign for the eradication of sheep scab has advanced considerably, I am not quite satisfied with the rate of progress in some areas. With a view to facilitating flock owners in having their sheep dipped, the prescribed dipping periods have been extended this year to include the month of June in the first period and the last two weeks of September in the second period. The subsidies of 50 per cent of the cost of new public dipping facilities are being continued and a significant development in this respect is that a number of county councils are providing themselves with mobile baths which are efficient and cheap and which qualify for the 50 per cent subsidy. Subsidies also continue to be available for the provision by farmers of sheep dipping and handling facilities on their own farms and for groups of farmers who come together to provide such facilities for use by members of the group.

The activities of the veterinary side of my Department in connection with efforts to reduce the economic losses in livestock caused by mastitis, liver fluke and scours in calves and young pigs are continuing. Since liver fluke is causing substantial losses to farmers, I have formed a small expert committee to examine all aspects of the disease and make recommendations as to the further action needed to control it. The committee; which held its first meeting recently, is composed of specialists from my Department's staff, the Veterinary Faculties of the Universities, the Agricultural Institute and the Irish Veterinary Association.

The Warble Fly Eradication Scheme has been highly successful. Checks on the incidence of warbles in cattle on farms and passing through marts and export points indicate that the level of infestation, which a few years back was in the region of 60 to 70 per cent, has now been reduced to less than two per cent. This gratifying result reflects great credit on all concerned. The campaign was recently reviewed by the National Agricultural Council, which recommended that, in view of the low level of infestation reached, it was not necessary to undertake a further national campaign next autumn. Instead the Council recommended that action be directed towards securing the treatment next spring of all animals showing visible evidence of infestation, and requiring farmers and shippers to produce certificates of treatment of such animals.

A new regional veterinary laboratory has been constructed at Sligo and will be in operation very shortly. The intention is to provide similar laboratories at three or four other centres in the country.

Turning now to tillage, I am glad to say that this year there will be an overall increase in the area under cereal crops, particularly in the case of wheat where the increase seems likely to be as much as 50 per cent. The decline in the wheat acreage in recent years was disturbing. There have been many reasons for this. Apart from unsatisfactory results arising from bad weather conditions, there were marketing problems. In 1965 improved marketing arrangements were introduced which have reduced considerably the marketing hazards. The guaranteed price for the 1966 crop was increased by 10/- per barrel and the crop was very good in all respects. These factors no doubt gave growers the confidence to sow a larger area to wheat this year.

The acreage under feeding barley has levelled off over the past few years and it is not likely that there will be any great change this year. There seems no reason why the objective of increased economic production and greater utilisation of feeding barley cannot be more fully achieved. It is a reasonably profitable crop; the risks in sowing and harvesting are few and as well there is a guaranteed market. This year's price of 45/- per barrel is the same as last years. In determining the support price, the implications to the pig feeder, who uses the major portion of the crop, must, of course, be borne in mind and, as I have already mentioned, this question of the relationship between the pig and feed prices is to be examined by the NAC.

The position in regard to oats production has been a source of some concern to me. I note that there have been fairly substantial imports of milling, feeding and seed oats over the past years. I feel we may not be doing all we can to secure our requirements for all these purposes at home. I believe that growers for their part could do more to produce and market oats to the standards required by both millers and bloodstock breeders, while in turn these interests could do more to secure their requirements at home rather than look for imported oats. Certainly in regard to seed, I am satisfied that we could produce our full requirements of high quality seed and thereby ensure the production of enough oats to meet all commercial requirements.

My Department continues its highly successful research work in cereal seed breeding, as a result of which there is an ample supply of high class home grown wheat and barley seed of suitable varieties. By using these and by good husbandry, there is no doubt that this country can produce the greater part of our cereal requirements.

This spring I introduced an important horticultural scheme which should have a considerable impact on the future of the glasshouse industry. This provides for substantial grants for the erection of new glasshouse nurseries and the modernisation of existing ones. The scheme is already being widely availed of and should enable the industry to reach a higher degree of competitive efficiency. The scheme will operate for five years and a sum of £100,000 is being provided for it under Subhead K. 24.

The publicity campaign introduced in 1965 to promote increased use of ground limestone has had spectacular success. Consumption, which in 1965-66 had reached a high level at 1,257,000 tons increased by a further 25 per cent in 1966-67 to 1,565,000 tons. This is very satisfactory and indicates that farmers are becoming more aware of the importance of ground limestone in securing increased production. This is the first time since the scheme began that consumption has topped the 1½ million tons mark. It is, of course, desirable that the usage of limestone should continue to increase and to this end, I would strongly urge farmers to concentrate more on summer liming when the supply position is easier and lower prices generally prevail.

Fertiliser consumption which had not been so satisfactory in recent years showed a welcome improvement in 1966-67. In addition to the substantial subsidies on phosphates and potash and the various credit facilities for the purchase of fertilisers a special campaign was launched in the latter part of 1966 to promote increased use of fertilisers. Because of the importance of stimulating increased use of fertilisers, 1967 has been designated "Fertiliser Year" and my Department, the fertiliser industry and the local advisory services are co-operating to secure greater and more efficient use of fertilisers. I am happy to say that already the indications are that consumption in 1967-68 will be on a much higher level than in recent years.

There is one point, in particular, in regard to fertilisers which I would like to stress and that is the desirability of farmers applying fertilisers to grasslands for the purpose of increasing their stock carrying capacity and producing more winter fodder. It is most desirable that greater attention be given to producing increased supplies of winter feed. The amount of hay and silage produced in recent years has not increased in step with the increase in livestock numbers and this adversely affects the condition of animals and increases mortality risks. Moreover, the lack of adequate winter feed often forces farmers to dispose of stock at a time of the year when supplies are flush and prices low instead of carrying them over the winter in good condition for sale in the spring when prices are good. I would, therefore, exhort farmers who were short of feed last winter to take the necessary steps this year to ensure adequate feed supplies through the fuller manuring of their grasslands and greater use of silage.

The total amount being provided under Subhead K9 in the Estimate for lime and fertiliser subsidies is £5; 174,000 which represents an increase of £314,000 on last year.

Demand for the facilities of the Land Project continues at a high level and expenditure during last year was the highest so far. The amount paid by way of grants to farmers was £1,777,000 or £196,000 higher than in the preceding year. Expenditure under the Land Project Fertiliser Credit Scheme rose from £220,000 in 1965-66 to £353,000 in 1966-67, which was also the highest figure yet reached. It is expected that this upward trend in both schemes will continue during the present year and hence the increased provision being made in the Estimate.

In order to keep pace with increasing participation in the Farm Buildings Scheme and Water Supplies Scheme, I am providing under Subhead K7 £2.2 million and £400,000 respectively for grant expenditure on those schemes. Grants paid under the Farm Buildings Scheme in 1966-67 amounted to almost £2 million compared with £1.8 million in 1965-66 and £1.7 million in 1964-65. The amount expended on grants under the Water Supplies Scheme in 1966-67 was £310,000. In August, 1966, the Farm Buildings Scheme was extended so as to provide higher grants to smallholders for piggeries, grants for the construction on farms of fixed cattle crushes or holding chutes and grants for new sheep-dipping and handling facilities erected by co-operative groups of farmers.

This year I am making provision under Subhead F for £755,500 for grants to county committees of agriculture. In the past ten years the total numbers of advisers employed by committees has increased from 301 to 482. While an adequate advisory service is essential to provide the most up-to-date technical advice for all our farmers it is equally important to ensure that the advisory service itself is organised on the most efficient and effective lines. Accordingly, last autumn we secured the services of two experts from abroad to make an independent appraisal of our agricultural advisory services. Their report was received very recently and as I have already indicated it is my intention to print and publish it. The scheme of grants towards the purchase of forage harvesters for which I am providing £70,000 has been very successful and is being widely availed of. Since its introduction the tonnage of silage has increased more than threefold from about 430,000 in 1963 to an estimated 1,400,000 in 1966.

Under Subhead I.5 a sum of £1,486,000 is being provided for An Foras Talúntais. This is made up of a grant of £1,386,000 towards non-capital expenses of the Institute and a grant of £100,000 for capital purposes. These sums bring the State's contribution to date towards the cost of the Institute's work to almost £8 million. As the Institute's work has expanded so has the amount of the State grant to the Institute increased and at present it represents over 80 per cent of the Institute's total income.

One of the subheads which shows a sizeable increase this year is Subhead D.2 under which funds are provided for private State-aided agricultural schools and schools of rural domestic economy. The increased provision is, in the main, intended to meet payment of grants for the expansion of these schools to enable them to accommodate more students and to modernise their equipment and teaching facilities, all of which is very important, having regard to the key role which education must play in raising the general standard of agricultural efficiency.

With regard to the provisions in the Estimate for grants to the Faculty of Agriculture at University College, Dublin, and the Faculty of Dairy Science at University College, Cork, the only change of substance in the amounts sought as compared with last year's Estimate is in the amount of the additional grant for University College, Cork, provided under Subhead D.9. This includes a sum of £100,000 for the much needed expansion of the Dairy Science Faculty, the building work on which is expected to commence during the year.

The problems of small farms and of agricultural development generally in the western areas are among the most challenging of all those facing us at the present time. These questions continue, therefore, to have my own and the Government's closest attention.

The list of special measures to aid agriculture in the western areas has been growing constantly in recent years. The very generous State aid towards the cost of the advisory service in the West has brought about a rapid increase in the number of advisers in these counties. The pilot area development programme has been of great value in identifying and measuring the scale of the main problems associated with agriculture in the West, and, more particularly, in demonstrating that considerable improvement is possible even under existing conditions, when the intensive advice and encouragement and the wide variety of facilities and incentives provided for farmers are properly and prudently availed of. As announced in the Budget, the pilot areas are now to be extended. Arrangements for this extension are already in hand and the enlarged pilot areas should all be operational before very long. As I have already mentioned, many of the other measures provided in the Budget are also designed to benefit the small farmer, not only in the West but in all other areas of the country as well.

No matter what measures are adopted to help small farms or western agriculture, and, however we may set about intensifying agricultural development, the whole problem of the small farm areas is not by any means one to be solved in the realm of agriculture alone. These problems demand a concerted approach by all Government Departments, all other State agencies, local authorities and voluntary bodies, to devise ways and means of realising the stated objective of maintaining the maximum number of people in rural areas consistent with social and economic progress, while continuing at the same time to create viable family farms in all our small farm areas. All facets of development in the West—agriculture, land structure improvement, housing, the provision of amenities, industrialisation, education, tourism and so on—must, therefore, be co-ordinated to constitute in effect a full-scale regional development plan for the area and the Government are now giving special attention to this form of approach. A special Cabinet committee has already been appointed to examine and report to the Government on the preparation of a suitable regional development plan for the western area.

I have endeavoured to give the House a comprehensive view of what we are doing for agriculture and I am sure Deputies will agree that our aim should continue to be to help farmers earn higher incomes by producing more and by doing so more efficiently. This objective can only be attained through the combined efforts of the Government and the farmers working together. In this partnership, farming organisations have the vital function of making known the views of farmers to the Government, putting forward suggestions and recommendations and in their turn promoting a better understanding of Government policy amongst their members and ensuring more widespread collaboration and participation in schemes benefiting farmers. As has been stated many times already, this Government attach great importance to consultations with farming organisations.

It is regrettable that one farming organisation—I refer of course to the NFA—should have elected to depart from the normal procedure of consultation and collaboration with the Government and to embark instead on a course of action designed as a challenge to orderly democratic Government. The facts prove conclusively that responsibility for the present situation rests solely with the NFA. Deputies will recall that, although the Minister for Agriculture met the NFA about 64 times between the beginning of 1964 and mid-August 1966 and had agreed to a further meeting on 26th August, the President of the NFA on 25th August launched his militancy campaign with an unexpected and unwarranted personal attack on my predecessor. The association followed this up with their so-called "farmers rights" march on Dublin on 19th October and with a "secret plan" which they were going to put into operation whether they were met or not. Next came the sit-down on the steps of the Government Buildings. Following an indication from the NFA that such tactics would cease, the outgoing Taoiseach and Minister for Agriculture and Fisheries met them on 8th November.

One of the first things the present Taoiseach and I did, after assuming our present offices, was to meet the association on 21st November for a session which lasted four hours. Within a few days, the association were seeking yet another and immediate meeting with the Taoiseach and myself. Although I wrote promptly to the President of the NFA agreeing to a further meeting with them, I found that, on the very morning they got this letter, they were again squatting on the steps of Government Buildings. On the same day, the NFA President announced the association's intention to stage farm machinery demonstrations along main roads in selected areas on December 9th: this they did. Their second farm machinery demonstration took place on January 9th. We all know what happened on that day. In the following weeks, the association intensified their no-rates campaign and announced a policy of non-cooperation with Government Departments and committees of agriculture. In the week commencing 5th March they staged their so-called commodity strike.

On 14th March the association announced that they had decided not to engage in any further activities outside the law and this was followed by a meeting between the association and the Taoiseach and myself on 21st March which lasted for some eight hours. It was the understanding of this meeting that the association would make it clear that the abandonment of their illegal activities included the calling-off of the no-rates campaign which was then continuing. When subsequently it emerged that the association were not honouring this understanding, the Government were left with no alternative but to take action to ensure the collection of rates which were legally due. It had become perfectly obvious that the only objective of these people was to put themselves into a position where they could, by one means or another, dictate to the Government and to undermine the authority of Government if they did not get their way. No Government worth the name could tolerate this kind of thing, which could only lead in the end to anarchy.

The association's campaign, which has discredited the organisation and does not represent the true feeling of more than a handful of farmers—most of them very large farmers indeed— has created a great deal of bitterness and unrest. A new and disturbing feature of this campaign has been the apparent attempt of late to coerce farmers to join the association or to punish those who refused to be associated with their unlawful activities. To mention only a few examples, there was the case of the man who, because of his opposition to the methods used by the NFA in their campaign, has been threatened with expulsion from the committee of his creamery society; there was the County Kilkenny farmer whose catering contract with certain marts has been cancelled simply because he provided a meal for gardaí who happened to be on duty in connection with seizures for non-payment of rates; or there was the County Westmeath farmer who is not permitted the use of a neighbour's corn drill apparently because of his refusal to join the NFA.

It is the first duty of any Government to ensure that the laws of the land are upheld, and this is a duty that the present Government are determined to fulfil, however unpleasant and unpopular that may be in the eyes of a certain small minority. The Government have shown that they wish to exercise that duty with the utmost restraint, great though the provocation has been. It would be a great relief to all if, even at this late stage, the NFA abandoned their current tactics and decided to work constructively with other organisations and with the Government. There is no need for me to tell the NFA how they may do that. If they abandon their present attitude and tactics they will be welcome to take up the two seats reserved for them on the National Agricultural Council—a Council through which decisions are influenced not by the number of heads present but by the value and soundness of the views expressed.

On the subject of the National Agricultural Council, there is little I need say, since Deputies are already well aware of the facts. The two meetings already held leave me in no doubt that it will prove a most useful body to me and to the Government in our efforts to adapt agricultural policy to changing conditions. The Council will prevail despite the efforts to undermine it. One very red herring raised for this purpose concerned the chairmanship. I set the Council up to advise me on agricultural policy matters and the place for me to get that advice is in the Council. If I had wanted a separate agricultural body representative of the various and often conflicting interests which go to make up the agricultural sector of the economy, I would have set up such a body and studied with interest any recommendations they might have been able to agree upon amongst themselves. What I wanted was to draw on the advice and experience of the typical farmer and to establish a two-way channel of communication—direct communication. This the Council does.

The fact that it has been agreed that the Minister should be in the Council will not detract one iota from the independence of the members or their freedom and determination to express their views fully and frankly—these in fact are the only kind of views which a Minister with problems on his hands would want to hear. Farmers are businessmen or entrepreneurs and they are not employed by the Government in the same way as a trade union member might be employed in industry. It is right that their representatives should speak up for them and speak up strongly if need be. However they cannot be allowed to make demands under threat of illegal or violent action if the demands are not met—even if some people think this constitutes "negotiation". As Deputies will have noted from my remarks, I have already placed on the agenda of the NAC a number of subjects which are of great importance to our future agricultural development, and I expect to have very fruitful and constructive deliberations with the Council on these matters. It is my intention to make available to the Council any additional expertise, whether from within the country or abroad, which they may need to help study these problems.

The Minister's statement could very easily give the false impression that all is well in Irish agriculture. Of course this is anything but the true picture. It is fair to say that progress can be claimed in certain branches of the industry, but in far too many other areas there has been no progress. In fact, considerable deterioration has occurred. This can only be regarded as a serious situation in our largest and most important industry, and I might say, indeed, in an industry on which the whole of our economy depends.

It is more serious still when we have regard to the fact that we have recently re-activated our application for membership of the EEC and when we bear in mind the contribution that will be expected from agriculture, if and when we join the EEC. If our application succeeds, it is reasonable to expect that we will get better prices and expanded markets for our main agricultural products. In the time available to us, we should be making an all-out effort to increase production of those products and to reduce costs. Before any worthwhile advance can be attempted, peace must first be restored——

——and a reasonable and proper working partnership built up between the Government and the farmers. It is right to say that Government-farmer relationships have never been worse than they are at the present time. A state of war exists for some considerable time. Indeed, one might describe it as open conflict. I think that not nearly a sufficient effort is being made by the Government, and particularly by the Minister for Agriculture, to find a way to solve these difficulties. All of us see, every day that passes, that the position is getting worse. Speeches are being made by Ministers and by the leaders of the NFA which, in my view, are only serving to create additional bitterness and a rekindling of fires. I think that a way can and must be found out of this situation.

It is not good enough for the Taoiseach to make the statement that certain Members of the Opposition are using the present situation for Party political purposes. Whomever that applies to, it certainly does not apply to me because I, and indeed many of my colleagues on these benches, have refrained to the point of which we have been criticised by our own supporters. We have done so in the national interest. I hope it is not too much to expect that in the national interest the Minister and the farmers will sink their differences now and get together to try to find a solution to this problem.

Very unnecessary steps have been taken by the Government in this whole campaign, steps which have made a solution more and more difficult. Many farmers have been sent to jail for doing things which they believe to be necessary to bring their plight and the neglect of their industry before the people in a public way. More farmers have been brought to court; they have been found guilty of breaking the law, and driving licences have been suspended for long periods. This has caused very considerable hardship and loss to the people concerned. Instead of adding fuel to the fire the Minister should be using his influence with the Minister for Justice, to exercise his powers of mitigation in order to start the creation of a climate in which negotiations can be restarted, in the hope of finding solutions to the various difficulties which exist.

Throughout the Minister's speech, we had many references to the National Agricultural Council and to the important part this Council can and has started to play. I want to make my attitude to this Council quite clear. I have said before on numerous occasions that the idea of such a council appealed to me. I think I was speaking of a national agricultural council perhaps before the Minister took up his present position as Minister; either that, or proper representation on the NIEC. There was a golden opportunity here to unite the farmers into one huge group and to get worthwhile work done through them; but, unfortunately, the Minister, in my view, made serious errors in his efforts to set up this Council. The first serious error he made was in insisting that a large block of the membership of this Council would be nominated by the Minister and he crowned the situation finally by taking the chair himself. Now we have the extraordinary situation at this point of time that we have the Minister for Agriculture chairing a group which is negotiating with the Minister for Agriculture on behalf of the farmers.

Might I correct the Deputy at this stage, lest everybody else keeps talking in these terms? It is not a negotiating organisation.

Let me continue: if this is not a negotiating body, then there is considerable confusion in the country, which should be cleared up. We had a national negotiating body, recognised by the Minister's predecessor, recognised by the previous Taoiseach, the National Farmers Association. They were recognised as the body to have an annual review and to be consulted about prices and prospects, not only during the year that passed but in the year to come. That was something which was dispensed with; they were refused those opportunities. The Minister has given a detailed account, a calendar account, of the events which led up to the present situation. All I can say is they make fairly sorry reading. It is an extraordinary thing that we managed to get on in this country up to the present without any of these unfortunate incidents. The responsibility rests with the Minister to restore peace.

In the course of his speech, the Minister, time and time again, referred to the important work to be done by this National Agricultural Council. It is quite obvious the Minister has got in a group simply to advise him on agricultural matters and he is chairing that group. As I see it now, he makes a suggestion to this group of people: "Look, there is something giving me a certain amount of bother; would you go away and look into it, or discuss it amongst yourselves, perhaps; then come back and we will have a discussion about it". The great mistake the Minister made in nominating the people he has nominated up to the present time was that the people he put on this body, or selected, do not represent any particular farming group in the country. It is fair to say that.

When the Minister set out originally, he stated that the six people he was retaining for his own selection and nomination were to be people representing various groups in Irish agriculture. The persons who have been so selected by him do not, in fact, represent any group and, consequently, can speak for themselves only and do not have to answer to any group. It is an extraordinary situation, a situation which has turned what was, in my view, a golden opportunity into something which is resented by many of the farmers. How the Minister can say and believe he has a worthwhile National Agricultural Council, when half the farmers are not represented, I cannot understand.

It is all right for the Minister to seek to brush aside the influence and the organisation of the National Farmers Association—the association claims to have a membership of 120,000—but nobody can brush these factors aside. It is most unfortunate that that whole group of agricultural influence is to be set aside by the Minister, simply because there is no real effort to get co-operation and because this large national organisation were offered the same position and status as small commodity groups in the country. This is something which is all wrong.

I think the Minister would be well advised, even at this late stage, to reconsider that situation, to appreciate that there is war in Irish agriculture and not peace, and that there will not be any worthwhile development here until you have full farmer involvement and full farmer co-operation at every stage. I know that farmers throughout the country are not saints and difficulties are bound to arise from time to time.

The Minister says this is not a negotiating body. Does the Minister say, at the same time, that the farmers are not entitled to a national negotiating body? The trade unions are so entitled; employers and industry are so entitled. Why then are the farmers not so entitled? It is only fair play for the farming community. This is something which should be straightened out. Let us have two bodies, if the Minister wants two bodies. Finally, and most important of all let the largest and the most important industry in the country be represented on the NIEC. Let them be taken into the national picture and see how they are being treated in the national picture.

We know what happened last year. The only section of the economy which increased its output was agriculture. We had an increase of two or three per cent in agricultural production and a fall in income of about the same amount. At the same time, we had stagnation in the other sectors of the economy and these people got a six per cent increase in income. I do not deny that they were entitled to that increase with the increased cost of living and so on, but the fact of the matter is that the farmers' income dropped during the same period and we are surprised that the farmers start to demonstrate in a vigorous way, that they are not going to accept this sort of treatment.

The Minister has given many examples and indications of the victimisation that is taking place at present. That is small and petty and we would do well to listen to what a parish priest, Very Rev. P.W. Davis, had to say on this whole matter. I quote from the Sunday Independent of May 28th, 1967:

The charges of intimidation levelled at the NFA were refuted by the president of the Mayo Executive when he spoke at a meeting in Castlebar. Very Rev. P.W. Davis, P.P., Cooneal, said no agitation had been carried out so free of incident in the country by more than 120,000 people without rules or discipline.

"Naturally," he said, "here and there young farmers may have lost their heads at times, but there were only a few minor incidents that would be quite commonplace in country dance halls. Members of the NFA are to be congratulated on the manner in which they carried out their protest with dignity and courtesy."

All farmers had serious grievances which the public did not know about, especially in regard to the composition of Boards, Father Davis continued.

I need not quote further but he indicates that they have not the position as producers in their own industry they are entitled to get but he is of opinion that there was nothing but minor incidents in this whole agitation and effort to draw attention to the plight of the industry. I should hate to see the day arrive when young farmers in the whole of their health would not occasionally lose their heads and if the Minister for Agriculture and Fisheries resents that in the way it is being resented at present it is too bad. I do not think that anything like sufficient effort is being made to settle this whole difficulty.

What is the difficulty?

The difficulty is that you have half the farmers of this country in revolt against the Minister for Agriculture and Fisheries and the Government, and that is too bad and very wrong.

The Minister mentioned the two meetings held by the National Agricultural Council. I think it is fair to say that these two meetings were held in secrecy, a few days before the Budget. Then we were told that the improvements which came in the Budget came as a result of the discussions that had taken place with the newly-born NAC. Now it is really childish to build up the importance of a body that has only been in existence for a few days and that could not possibly have made any worthwhile impact on budget intentions. I hope the Minister for Agriculture and Fisheries does not intend to continue telling people that the National Agricultural Council, as it is called, which is not, in fact, a national agricultural council, is bringing about any improvements that occur in the industry. That is not the way to tackle it. The Minister should resolve to settle this once and for all.

I made efforts recently to get an all-Party approach to this problem. We felt that if Party politics were kept out of this whole row, a settlement might be reached more easily. We kept out in the national interest. We could have made much more politics out of this. I believe that we have a part to play in the settlement. Among the members of the National Farmers Association are people of all politics, people supporting the Government, people supporting Labour and people supporting us. I felt that it would be a good thing if there were an open declaration by all the Parties in the House that they wanted to see an end to this difficulty and a settlement brought about and make an approach in that way. I believe we would get much farther than will ever be got by any single Party making an approach.

That did not materialise because the member of the Government group whom I approached apparently was not free to participate. I think it is a pity he was not. Since that day the Parliamentary Secretary to the Minister for Finance, Deputy Gibbons, apparently told the Press the deadlock was about to be broken but we hear today further announcements that there is no such indication. This is a terrible pity. The time has come to blot out the past and get down to the enormous job that has to be done if we are to iron out the difficulties and if we ever hope to secure the full potential of the agricultural industry. We will never do that unless we have full farmer involvement all the way and full farmer co-operation.

If we are ever to reap the full potential of the industry, a large scale investment programme will have to be embarked on and if we are to do that very careful advance arrangements will have to be made. Farmers need money to buy fertilisers, to improve their buildings, to improve their equipment, to do more drainage work. These are the tools of efficient farming. If we are to get the volume of production that it is possible to get we must get money and credit at reasonable rates of interest. So far there has been no indication that we are getting down to this job.

The Minister gave various figures for output from agriculture. Roughly one can say that it is responsible for two-thirds of our exports. That is more important even than it looks because any increase in agricultural production from now on means 100 per cent export because the home market is supplied. As well as that, the import content of these exports is so small that investment in agriculture is very attractive.

During the past year farmers have suffered serious hardship because of the drastic drop in cattle prices in the second half of the year. Listening to the Minister talking about the prices of agricultural products last year generally, I came to the conclusion that he must be in cloud-cuckooland, that he must not be aware of what was happening throughout the country and that he must not appreciate that it was just impossible to sell young cattle unless the farmers were prepared to give them away in many instances. It is all right to talk about the Trade Agreement and the effects of the Trade Agreement. When we were trying to sell our store cattle last year, the Trade Agreement was very little good to us. According to the Agreement, we were entitled to put them in, but the British farmer simply did not want them, and when he did not want them, there was no obligation to import them. Therefore, we were left sitting.

It has been stated that this Trade Agreement was a wonderful thing for this country. I have been looking through it and I can see no safeguards at all in it for us. There is an implied threat in various places in it that if we do not succeed in supplying the quotas mentioned steps may be taken to deal with us, but on the other hand if there are a number of things with which we are dissatisfied all we can do is have consultations and discussions on those difficulties. There is no indication as to what will be the outcome of the discussions.

Last year was a bad year in many ways. As I say, the drop in cattle prices was simply fantastic. The price of calves dropped by about £15 per head. At present there is an improvement, but prices are still £10 below what they were a year or so ago. A drop of £15 in the price of calves, as I said before, is tantamount to 6d per gallon on the price of milk on a 600 gallon cow. That is a serious blow to dairying. Even though we talk about giving an increase of 2d a gallon, we can easily see where it is lost, and lost very quickly. Sheep prices were also down, and they were down in numbers. The Minister spoke about high yields in tillage. Surely that was more than offset by the drop in tillage acreage. There was a drop of 130,000 acres. That is a fantastic drop in one year.

One sector of the agricultural industry in which there was a fairly considerable improvement was in milk production. The Minister said that one of the things that hit agriculture last year was the very late and wet spring. That may be so, but there was also a very favourable back end, and milk production showed a considerable increase. The Minister put it at 14 per cent. I did not think it was anything like that but I knew there was quite a considerable increase. It is a tribute to Bord Bainne that while we have improved our position and become more established in existing markets, it has been found possible to secure new markets for ever-increasing and ever-growing quantities of milk products. It is quite obvious that the export markets are being very carefully watched, and that advantage is being taken of every opportunity that presents itself. The promotional work of Bord Bainne has been carried out with efficiency and imagination and they are succeeding— and succeeding rapidly let me say—in creating a national brand image of quality and value for more and more of our products. Those efforts have been backed up by increased research and advisory work at the production end.

If we are to continue to keep a high place in the export market for these products, unless the raw material is good we have no hope of having a finished product of high quality. Therefore, those efforts must be continued and intensified. As I say, we have every reason to be proud of the success of Bord Bainne in the marketing of agricultural products, but we have failed completely to do anything about the marketing of beef, and improving the sales of our cattle. It is peculiar that in the whole of the Minister's statement he made no reference whatever to his intentions in relation to a meat marketing board or a promotion board which he has mentioned on occasions recently. There is no mention whatever that I can remember in the course of his statement in relation to his intentions in this regard.

It is obvious that last year something was seriously lacking. The farmers were advised as late as the month of May that the right thing to do was to hold their cattle and that prices would be £5 to £6 a head higher after the 1st July as a result of the Trade Agreement. We all know what happened. As I say, as late as May the Minister for Agriculture and Fisheries was not able to forecast a few months ahead. That indicated to me that he was badly informed as to the prospects in the various export markets. I am sure that when he gave that advice, when he told the farmers that cattle would go up by £5 or £6 per head, he gave it in good faith. I cannot imagine any Minister for Agriculture and Fisheries advising the farmers unless he believed that what he was saying was true.

Perhaps the Deputy would give me some lead as to what Minister said the farmers should hold their cattle in May last year.

I may be wronging the Minister when I say he said to hold them but he certainly said that after 1st July cattle prices would increase by £5 to £6 per head.

My recollection is that he did not say at any stage to hold them in the springtime, and that what he said really meant that after the Trade Agreement the return on cattle would be worth money representative of the figure the Deputy has mentioned, not that the price of cattle would increase by that amount.

The advice was that the whole situation in relation to the price of cattle would improve, once the Trade Agreement became operative from 1st July. We all know, unfortunately, that the price fell absolutely to pieces from that date.

Does the Deputy agree that he did not say to hold them?

I accept that. As I say, the price fell to pieces, and were it not for the headage grants introduced in the back end I do not know what would have happened to the farmers. Certainly that helped to avert a complete catastrophe but, unfortunately, it did not assist the man with young stock or with stock which was showing signs of the long previous winter and had not done so well.

The main feature of the Second Programme for Economic Expansion in relation to cattle was that cattle numbers would increase by approximately 33 per cent between 1964 and 1970. As the Minister said, considerable progress was made towards this goal until last January when the upsurge in cow numbers went into reverse. One can easily see why— because of the disappointments of the previous years. Here we set out with the heifer scheme deliberately to increase cattle numbers. As I say, we succeeded to a considerable extent but at the same time did nothing to set up a marketing organisation to dispose of this production. It was still left to private enterprise to set out to find markets for this very big increase in numbers. As well as that, the quality was mediocre because conditions were not laid down.

The heifer scheme has been criticised by many because it was said chancers came in and got the benefit. They did, but the scheme succeeded in getting numbers up. On the other hand no extra effort was put into the scheme to ensure that as numbers increased, there would be sufficient feed to ensure that cattle would be properly looked after. It may be said that farmers should be able to do these things for themselves. I agree that perhaps they should but there is the fact that we have not got that degree of anticipation and perfection among the farming community. They should be warned time and again that there is little use in increasing numbers unless simultaneous provision is made for the production of silage, winter feed. We are doing very little in that respect.

One thing, however, has made an impact in that direction, the forage harvest grant. It is about one-third only, but it is amazing the effect it has had in the area I know. It increased the quantity of silage produced. If that and similar inducements schemes were brought along, you would not have cattle staggering out in the spring and this glut of autumn sales that are regarded as being so undesirable by everyone and, of course, are so undesirable.

The whole question of providing the accommodation for silage is quite an expensive business if it is done on the traditional lines to which we are all accustomed—a covered silage pit and covered lean-to accommodation where cattle could be in lying. It is now accepted that considerable advance could be made if there were sufficient hard standing for cattle, if we had worthwhile grants to lay down concrete on to which we could put silage which could be covered with a plastic covering for cattle feed in the autumn. I do not know what the grant for concrete is per square yard now. It used to be 1/6, I think it is now 2/6. It is a matter I omitted to look up. If the figure given is 2/6, it bears no relation to the cost of laying down concrete. A considerable area of this hard standing for cattle is required if we are to keep them off the land during the winter and early spring when they should be off it and if we are to get late or early grass.

I was disappointed the Minister had no recommendation in regard to increased provision for winter feed. He spoke about the desirability of marketing more of our cattle during the first six months of the year. He also said that more of our cattle have gone this year. So they have: farmers did not want to be caught out this year as they were last year and they are disposing of more cattle, and there is a better demand.

At Question Time last week, I asked the Minister why cattle had dropped suddenly in price by 10/- per cwt. in the Dublin market. This week the price dropped again. Are we to have a tumble? This is something the people need to know and to be warned about. Much greater efforts are required to explain properly to the farmers why their average is in the region of 30/- to 40/- per cwt. less for their beef cattle than that of farmers in England. I raised this earlier in the year on a few occasions and all sorts of lame excuses were offered by the Minister but no worthwhile explanation was given as to why this enormous discrepancy occurred. It has been said by people in the trade that it was due to unevenness in the enormous supply that came in the autumn.

Figures collected by the Central Statistics Office were published last February and were regarded as comparable with British figures. They ranged from 58/- in Scotland down to £2 in Northern Ireland more than our farmers were getting. Carriage would account for 10/- of that but the difference has to be explained by the Minister. In England and Northern Ireland, subsidy payments are direct to the farmers and so far here the Minister has refused to operate such a scheme.

Some time ago he gave me the impression that he was thinking of a scheme whereby this would be possible and I was disappointed in the Minister's statement today that he made no reference to this important matter. It just means that Irish farmers are being deprived in one way or another of £15 to £20 per head on their cattle. Perhaps one could knock off £5 for carriage but after that the figure represents not only a serious loss to farmers but a serious national loss because of the Exchequer subsidy that has to be provided as well as everything else.

I cannot see why a marketing board could not be of assistance to both processors and farmers, a worthwhile marketing board that would look after advertising, the flow of beef to individual markets in Britain, sea transport and general promotion work that a busy private enterprise concern appears to be no longer able to do. When I recommend a meat marketing board, I do not lose sight of the fact that a great tribute is due to the meat trade. They have gone out for markets for considerable quantities of beef in the past and they have done great service for the country which should be recognised. Many of them operate up-to-date, efficient factories but they have no control over the less efficient and less worthwhile carcase meat exporters. The job has now got so big that they are not able to take care of it.

The Minister told us what he has in mind for the future marketing of our cattle and beef. I remind him that it fell into a shocking state last year and that forecasts were hopeless. Therefore, there must be an intelligent forecasting organisation to make assessments of future possibilities. On the present situation in the cattle trade the Minister is optimistic, certainly more optimistic than I because we have the larger numbers of cattle still on our hands. We are bound to have a continued glut and I am afraid it is on its way. Still, there is no indication in what the Minister told us that there will not be a recurrence of the collapse we had last year.

The Minister mentioned the number of cattle we exported to Egypt and also the cattle that went to Italy. There was no mention of the famous 2,000 supposed to go to Germany. They are obviously a dead letter. In any case, the number was so small it was not worth screaming about. The figure of exports to Italy escaped me, if the Minister mentioned it. He did say the Department were hoping to improve on this and expand this export outlet. He did not say for what type of cattle. I assume it is for the type of cattle that have gone up to the present, cattle up to six cwt. or something of that sort.

There was fairly severe criticism of the condition of some of the cattle exported. Unfortunately, there is ample evidence to indicate that at least most of what was said about them was true. All the livers were fluked, that is, when they were slaughtered, and they were heavily infected with worms. The Minister did not say he has under active consideration ways and means of controlling the great loss that occurs through fluke infestation. I hope that very soon we will hear that a scheme is under way. I personally think it is even more important than brucellosis, on which we have started.

In regard to these quotas in the Trade Agreement, I remember two people in this House—the present Minister for Justice and the then Minister for Agriculture—telling us that what we secured for agriculture in the Trade Agreement was 100 per cent in accord with what was sought. Certainly, it does not reflect great foresight when we now see that the entire quota of beef was exported by the middle of December of last year from 1st July. Unfortunately, there is nothing in the Trade Agreement that I can see which gives any scope for a growth factor in our exports. There was a considerable increase in carcase meat exports last year, I know. I hope the Minister will find a way to return to the farmers these subsidies at present being paid. This is a source of continual grouse and annoyance. They have a real feeling of being deprived.

In relation to this appeal to the farmers to produce more cattle and to sell more cattle in the first six months of the year, an effort should be made, and we should have some announcement from the Minister, over and above exhortation, to provide a certain guaranteed price for cattle during that period. It should be easy enough to do because I doubt very much if it would cost the country very much to do it. Occasionally there might be that drop farmers are afraid of. It would increase the confidence of farmers. Coupled with that, we should increase the grants for winter feed, accommodation for cattle and do something other than just exhort them to turn out their cattle in the spring. It is serious from the point of view not only of the money secured for cattle but of the efficient working of the processing factories. If they have not a fairly even flow of cattle, it must increase their overheads enormously.

The Minister spoke about the AI stations and the percentage of cattle dealt with in this year. Sixty per cent of our cows mated were mated by AI. The Minister mentioned there was a movement away from the Friesian and back to the Hereford. That has happened mainly because of the difficulty of selling cattle that were not in good condition last year. This was due to a number of factors, scarcity of feed, the late winter and so on. I would hate to see us moving out of milk and out of milk breeds because, as we know, over 60 per cent of our farmers are small farmers under 50 acres. If they are to get a living, they must get a living, first, from milk production. The Minister said that, in his opinion, the whole future of the small farmers depended on intensive livestock production. I think he must base his economy on milk first. If an animal does not pay his way as a milk producer, certainly you cannot afford to live on a dry cattle economy. That is extremely important to remember. The only thing wrong with the Friesian is that we do not pay enough attention to the type of Friesian we are using. If we have the Dutch type of Friesian rather than the British, we will have a first-class store beast, but they are cattle that have to be fed well all the time. We cannot fully impress on our farmers the importance of this type of continuous feeding at a high level, if we are to make money out of beef production.

I believe we do not make half enough out of the AI stations. We have something here we can sell to the farmers automatically, something that requires no salesmanship. Any improvement by way of progeny-tested bulls is an improvement we have got to sell, and it happens automatically. I was glad to hear the Minister say he was interested in progeny testing, but I think we are not making enough effort in that direction. In the notes supplied on the activities of the Department, we are told about the number of bulls progeny tested, but we are not told about the number that are proven and the number of proven bulls without any station. That is important. If you have one of those proven bulls, the cost immediately goes up. It does not seem to make sense that the cost should go up because we want to get the farmers to use the best bulls. We are taking the necessary steps to make them shy away from using the best bulls.

Charolais were mentioned. I thought we did not hear quite enough about them. The Minister did say there was an increasing demand, but he did not say to what extent. He did not say to what extent, if any, we were trying to push Charolais and whether in fact it is worth pushing them as meat producers and to what extent. When he is replying, he should tell us more about the Charolais and their performance to date and what the future holds as far as the investigations have gone.

I understand there has been and perhaps is an export policy for bully beef and veal. I do not know how far this has been explored or whether or not it is part of the Minister's intentions to see if anything can be done along these lines to find increased outlets for our cattle.

We hear occasionally that the Livestock Consultative Council are still in existence but we very rarely hear what, if any, are their recommendations.

As far as sheep are concerned, the position is that there was not only a drop in price but a drop in numbers and in the price of wool. The Minister did say that he was at present doing something about the recommendations of the Wool Committee. I have had representations made to me by various groups of hill sheep farmers wanting to be represented on any body or co-operative dealing with the sale of wool in this country. I hope the Minister will remember that when he is introducing any new efforts in this regard.

A number of producers of sheep and lambs on the hills complain that they cannot increase production because they cannot get fertilisers on the hills. This is an aspect of production that should get serious consideration. In other places helicopters are used but they are uneconomic. The Minister should explore for hill areas the possibility of using something like a Unimog for spreading fertiliser. Production could be enormously increased if it were possible to get fertiliser on to a large proportion of hill areas.

There has been a serious drop, as the Minister recognises, in fertiliser usage during the past couple of seasons. The Minister says that there are indications already this year that there will be increased fertiliser usage. I hope he is right in that. In my view, the only indication of increased fertiliser usage is the increased acreage under wheat. There has never been any difficulty in getting farmers to fertilise grain adequately, but when it comes to fertilising grass, they certainly think twice about it. If we are to increase cattle numbers as I believe we ought, if there is greater effort made to find markets for them, because our whole future, if we get into Europe, is largely dependent on cattle, efforts should be made to increase the use of fertiliser. The Minister did not tell us what he had in mind. He is calling this year fertiliser year. What has been done to induce farmers to increase the use of fertiliser during the present year? We should hear more about the inducements offered because it is extremely difficult to get farmers to use fertiliser and after last year's drop in income, there is a shortage of money for things like fertiliser which, unfortunately, get only secondary consideration.

There has been a serious drop in pig numbers and the entire pig and bacon industry is at a very low level at the moment. I do not think any of the measures taken up to the present are serious enough or comprehensive enough to get the increase in production the Minister desires and the country needs and should have. It is all right to say that the price of quality pigs has been increased by 6/- a cwt. This is not the important thing. At all times the important thing is the relationship between the cost of feeding and the quality of feed and the price you can get for the pig and whether or not there is an economic return. Some time ago when pig prices had reached an uneconomic level, there was nothing done to change that picture. This is the serious aspect of the situation and that is what causes the variation, up and down, in the production graph. Immediately numbers are increased, the price drops. It should be possible to give some long-term encouragement to farmers by providing that there will always be a relationship between pig feed prices and the price of pigs that will ensure for the reasonably efficient producer a worthwhile profit. At the time that pigs were falling to an uneconomic level, a move should have been made to export pigs as pork because there was a worthwhile market in pork which I do not think was investigated sufficiently. Numbers were allowed to build up and there was the inevitable drop in price and the inevitable export of sows. People rushed out of pigs because they were losing money and that was the only reason they went out of production. They will get into production again because there is a good price.

We have the situation that there is a large quantity of native barley in storage and it is costing a considerable amount of money to keep it there. It would be far better to pay a subsidy of, say, £5 a ton on that barley to bring it down to the price of similar imported feeding and to give it to the farmers and get them to feed it. It should be available at this time of year rather than have the position next harvest that the stores are choked with barley that should long since have been consumed. The Minister referred to the large quantities of grain and feedingstuffs being imported unnecessarily. That is something I hope he intends to prevent as far as it is possible and advisable to do so.

There is hardly sufficient being done in regard to the control of disease in pigs. I have been in pig production for a good many years and I have always found that if there are pig losses through disease, it is extremely important to secure satisfactory diagnosis and to get worthwhile treatment recommendations. Serious losses can be incurred through disease. It is one of the things that happen immediately pig numbers are increased. A much better service should be provided on a national scale for the control of pig disease.

I have always said that a real effort should be made to organise pig production on a regional scale and that there should be some central organisation in each production area to ensure that producers get their raw materials at the lowest possible price consistent with quality. No effort has been made to organise pig production in that regional way and the result is that in the areas in which the Minister has expressed his interest, the poorest areas in the west of Ireland, the number of pigs being produced is only half the number produced there in 1930.

In the Dublin area in particular, there is a serious problem in regard to surplus milk. This month the farmers in this area will be getting 1/11d or, if they are lucky, 2/- for surplus milk. As we know, this price is far below the summer price of milk in the dairy areas. I am not blaming the Minister for this because I know that he is not responsible for holding up the establishment of a processing factory, but he should do something to promote this project. A site was secured and provision made for the setting up of such a processing unit out at Bluebell. For reasons of which I am fairly well aware, this did not go ahead, but I think the people who were advising against it at the time have had reason to change their minds since. I understand that next year the wholesalers will take only the quantity of milk they require for their business in the liquid milk trade and that there will be no outlet for the surplus milk. This is going to be a very serious situation if we do not provide a processing factory to give this milk to the plants down the country that are prepared to accept it in a condensed form. This is a matter of urgency for milk producers in the whole Dublin milk-producing area.

The statistics supplied by the Minister to Deputies prior to this discussion are very useful, but there is something wrong with them and I just want to draw the Minister's attention to this. I happen to have in my possession the notes for last year, and now we have the notes for this year. In the notes for last year, we are told that total agricultural exports in 1965 were £120 million. We are told in the notes for this year that the total agricultural exports in 1965 were £115 million. There is a discrepancy there of £5 million and I should like this explained when the Minister is replying, or perhaps he could explain it off the cuff.

In the exports of bacon, there is a discrepancy of approximately £2 million. It is given one year as £6.6 million, and in the next set of notes, as £8.8 million. Again in the export of pork, there is the discrepancy as between £4.2 million and £5.5 million. These figures are either false last year and true this year, or true this year and false last year. It is something I should like to have explained, because it does not seem to me to be a typist's error.

Mention was made, too, of the Horse Breeding Report. The Minister's predecessor promised to start implementing this report last January or February. We are now being told that the matter is still under consideration and that more and more consultations will have to take place before any moves are made on it. Surely the number of people concerned in this is so small that if we were actively interested in implementing the findings and the recommendations of this report, we would long since have got round to it, that is, if we have any faith in the report, and we should know by now whether we have or not? Any of the interests with which I am in contact are extremely anxious that something should be done about it, and they have no indication that anything is being done.

The brucellosis scheme, as the Minister says, is under way in Donegal. It is going very well, and Donegal will soon be a clearance area, and the scheme will be extended from Donegal to other areas. There has been very little brucellosis in that area and that is why the scheme was started there, which is quite right, but I am afraid that when this scheme is extended to cover other parts of the country, it is going to cost a colossal amount of money. It may be that this is being forced upon us, but I can see that there will be very considerable losses if we have to get rid of stock that are affected with brucellosis.

I may have this impression from the fact that due to the practice of using Strain 19 all the years you get a reaction now that does not give a true indication of the incidence of the disease. I hope that is so and that the true incidence of the disease is not represented by the degree of positive reaction that is got at the present time on testing. I know that any pilot efforts that are being made have revealed alarming results.

In regard to glasshouse grants, I have not got a copy of the scheme, but my information is that there is one-third allowed on buildings and 40 per cent on equipment. However, I understand there is no hope of getting these grants unless you already have a quarter of an acre of glass. I hope that is not so, but I have been assured that is the case. This certainly does not seem to me to be consistent with helping the small producer. If that is a condition of the grant, I hope something will be done to remove it as soon as possible.

The Minister spoke about the necessity for licensing livestock marts. He did not enlarge on that, but just made the statement. However, he did enlarge on it speaking somewhere yesterday, and it seems to indicate that this is in some way tied up with the present operation of the cattle marts and livestock marts throughout the country. If there is any necessity for licensing livestock marts from the point of view of insisting on disease control, hygiene standards and that sort of thing, this is a serious interference with the farmers' own business, and the Minister should hesitate before he goes ahead with this scheme. It is taken at the present time as a further indication of the Minister's anxiety to break up an existing farming organisation, and this is an organisation, whether we like to admit it or not, that has done an immense amount of good for Irish farmers and which has the capacity to continue doing an immense amount of good for them. It is wrong to do anything that might kill the initiative or interest in their own efforts and in their own enterprises, co-operative and otherwise, by taking departmental control of their operations.

With regard to Angus cattle, I can remember a good way back to the time that the complaint was in the Department of Agriculture that our Angus cattle were too big for the Scottish trade and that something would have to be done about it. The wheel has turned full circle, and now we have discovered they are not big enough. I suppose there is nothing wrong in that. If fashions change, if markets change and if demands change, it is only right that we should be "with it". I am glad that, realising the need for change, we have gone into this breed of Aberdeen Angus, designed to improve growth rates and consequently the profit from Aberdeen Angus cattle in the West of Ireland. It was right to set up the Irish Herd Book. I hope the breeding societies are progressing towards acceptance of cattle produced by AI. For far too long they have stood out against these. It is a pity they should do so because, if there is any way in which cattle can be tested, it is through the activities of the AI stations.

The first item in the notes in relation to the main activities of the Department concerns the agricultural advisory service. Too much importance cannot be attached to the advisory service and to the numbers and quality of the instructors, plus the feeding of information through An Foras Talúntais to the farmers. If we are to get the production we hope to get, and if we are to reduce costs in the way we hope they will be reduced in order to bring our competitiveness up to the standards of the people we will have to meet and beat in the export market, one of the most important instruments we have towards achieving that end is the advisory service working as the friend of the farmer. Recently an appalling press release was sent out by the Minister to the agricultural officers. It was sent to the CAOs in the county committees: in that it was stated that any case of intimidation, or threatened intimidation, was to be immediately reported to the Department. It is a dreadful development if advisory officers are now expected to act as spies——

Hear, hear.

——on the very people they are supposed to befriend and advise.

It never used to be.

It never used to be and I hope it never will be. It was a serious error on the part of the Minister to send out such a press release, a release designed to turn advisory officers into spies on those whom they are supposed to advise.

Hear, hear.

With regard to agricultural education the Minister has said that grants are being increased in order to enable accommodation to be extended. Attention has been called for some years past to the shortage of accommodation in agricultural colleges. This is a belated effort. Even now we are not taking sufficient positive steps to ensure that those who want to do a year, or even two years, in an agricultural college are catered for; there is only one college in the country which provides a limited number of places for a second year. That is Gurteen. Warrenstown used to provide a second year but, because of demand by first year students, they have had to abandon it. The facilities were not available to provide a second year and not available, therefore, to turn out first-class people in both agriculture and horticulture. The provision of accommodation is something in relation to which we cannot move fast enough.

We heard very little from the Minister about horticulture. I had hoped we might have heard something about the Erin Foods-Heinz amalgamation and the prospects for the future. I saw a figure of approximately 4,000 acres in relation to this type of production; there is some prospect that that figure may be increased to roughly 20,000 acres. I hope the Minister will tell us something about the prospects because this is something which would help to reduce the numbers leaving the land every year.

The only reference by the Minister to poultry was that there was an increase in broiler production. Last year we increased the export of seed potatoes. It is really extraordinary that we can get people to produce potatoes because the price today is the same as it was 30 years ago. Possibly mechanisation has helped. We could, I think, do a great deal to improve the situation.

Finally, I appeal to the Minister to restore peace to the agricultural community and put an end to the fighting which has been going on for far too long. I want to assure him that he will have the help and co-operation of every Deputy on this side of the House. It has been alleged, quite wrongly, that we want to keep this situation going until after the local elections. That might have an advantage for us, but I am stating publicly now that we want to see this ended.

Deputies

Hear, hear.

Any assistance I can give, any assistance any Deputy on these benches can give, will be gladly given. Now is the time to sink differences, to stop making speeches and making the solution more difficult every day.

Deputy Clinton has dealt so extensively with all the aspects of agriculture that I am at a disadvantage in following him. The Minister, in my opinion, must be living in a world of make-believe if he thinks that the people, and particularly the farming community, will accept without question the rosy picture he has painted. I was somewhat surprised by the manner in which the Minister approached his Estimate. After 12 months of continued and unprecedented unrest in the farming community, it was only reasonable to expect that he would have given a clear indication that he recognised the serious economic and social problems confronting Irish agriculture. There is nothing in his speech to indicate that he realises the extent of these problems or the difficulties with which the farmers have had to contend over the past 12 months. He attempts to paint a rosy picture, making the best use of the statistics and the other information available to him in his Department. However, anybody even remotely connected with agriculture will be aware that the reality of the present position in Irish agriculture is far different from the picture painted by the Minister in this debate.

Following 12 months of continuous unrest, during which our farmers were driven to the verge of desperation and, in an effort to make their grievances heard and to force the Government to take action, having tried all the normal channels of communication, this most peaceful, law-abiding and hardworking section of our community were forced to take drastic action and even to break the law. The Minister would have been far better advised, and it would have been much more statesmanlike on his part, to face up to the situation and if, instead of trying to defend his attitude to and his handling of the present farming difficulties, he had come out openly and admitted that serious problems confront our farmers. The fact that our farmers have had to resort to drastic action is symptomatic of the difficulties and the hardships with which they have had to contend.

I believe the Minister and his predecessor have handled this whole situation in a deplorable manner. I am convinced that the difficulties which have come to light, and which have been so much to the forefront in the past 12 months in relation to the agricultural community, did not arise overnight. I believe—I think it was forecast—that most of the difficulties in the agricultural industry stem from the fact that when the Government introduced the Second Programme for Economic Expansion there was no policy for agriculture. Since the introduction and the attempted implementation of the Second Programme for Economic Expansion, Irish agriculture has gone downhill rapidly.

There are notable omissions in the Minister's speech. I cannot understand why, in this document of 25 pages in which the Minister speaks glowingly of the efforts of the Government to tackle the problem of the small farmer and of western development, there is not one word about what is always spoken of whenever agriculture is discussed. I cannot even find the word "co-operation" once mentioned in it. Have the Government abandoned the co-operative movement? The Minister comes from Donegal, where Father McDyer has clearly demonstrated the value of co-operative organisation in helping the small farmer to survive. Surely the Minister should not have omitted any reference to the Government's intentions regarding the promotion of agricultural co-operation? There is reference to rationalising and to re-organisation of the creamery industry.

I have suspected for a long time that much of the talk about agriculture is merely academic. Everybody preaches co-operation: "The farmers must co-operate. If the small farmer is to survive, there must be co-operation." There is nothing in this Bill to show that the Government have any plans to encourage our small farmers and our medium-sized farmers and our large farmers to co-operate. I am beginning to suspect that the Government have entirely forgotten about and, in fact, are departing from the idea of co-operation. This is the most significant part of the Minister's speech, in my humble opinion.

One would not expect to find that in Great Britain co-operation or co-operative methods are essential to agricultural production because when we turn to Great Britain we think in terms of large-scale holdings. I have a report here from the Farmers' Weekly of 28th April, 1967, from which I should like to quote one or two relevant extracts. In this report it is stated that the National Agricultural Advisory Service in Britain has set up a commando unit to gather facts about farm co-operative groups as part of a large-scale national agricultural advisory service programme for coping with the boom in co-operation which is expected. The report states:

Economic pressures are forcing more farmers towards group working. This can have big benefits in cutting labour, machinery requirements, management time and costs generally.

Now, here is something that I think our agricultural advisory service might perhaps try to adapt to the needs of this country. In previous debates on the Vote for the Department of Agriculture I referred to the fact that our agricultural advisers receive no specialised training in co-operative organisation. In other words, to the best of my knowledge our agricultural advisers have not been trained to advise a group of farmers who decide to come together to work on co-operative lines. There are a number of co-operative farming groups in this country who have proved beyond all doubt the value of farmers working together on co-operative lines but there is a difficulty in securing specialist advice on the best methods of organising these groups, how machinery can equitably be pooled, how expenses can be shared, etc. I think our national agricultural advisory service could and should examine the possibilities of farm groups, as they are called—groups of farmers working co-operatively—to see how far these groups have succeeded, where they have made mistakes and how a clearcut policy aimed at encouraging co-operation among farmers can be arrived at.

One of the big snags in the advisory services is that instructors are appointed on a temporary basis at first. I know an instructor who was a temporary instructor for ten years. This system of appointing agricultural instructors on a temporary basis is very bad. It leads to mobility on the part of the instructors. They have to move from one county to another and when an instructor has spent a number of years in a particular county, for example in a dairying county, he has acquired a considerable amount of knowledge of local problems, and not merely technical problems but social and human problems as well. To secure permanent appointment he has, perhaps, to move to another part of the country where an entirely different system of farming is practised. I know of two temporary instructors who organised co-operative farming groups of the type to which I was referring a while ago and having put in a tremendous amount of work and having been very successful in both cases the instructors were appointed permanently in another county far removed from the county in which they had been working.

The part of the Minister's speech relating to the dairying industry is of particular interest to me as this is the type of farming practised in my constituency. The Minister's figures indicated that milk production in 1966 was substantially up and that this year it would be up still further. However, the Minister makes no reference to certain problems which have now come to light as a result of this increase in milk production. I have here a report from the Limerick Weekly Echo of 27th of this month which states that there is large scale milk dumping. It says that thousands of gallons of skim milk are being dumped at present, much of it in the Limerick area, because nothing can be done with surplus supplies which are increasing yearly. The report goes on to say that this year the wastage has increased considerably due largely to a decrease in the number of pigs. Here we have skim milk being poured down the drain and a short distance away we have a bacon factory having to close its doors because of a shortage of pigs.

This is a serious position. As far as I can recall, there is nothing in the Minister's speech to show that there are any plans for disposing of the surplus of skim milk. Numerous farmers have complained to me in recent weeks that the creameries are not taking the amount of skim milk which the farmers are prepared to give them. It is a great pity and it is another indication of the type of agricultural policy we have had for a good number of years, particularly in recent years, whereby, as I have already pointed out, plans are made to increase production in certain lines and when production has been increased to the expected level, or higher, we are faced immediately with problems of a surplus. As far as I can gather from the information at my disposal this is a difficulty in the skim milk powder export market. Although the progress made by the skim milk powder industry, and the milk powder industry generally in recent years has been satisfactory, we seem to have reached a limit now and other methods of utilising economically surplus skim milk will have to be devised.

In my own area, I know of no more economic method of disposing surplus skim milk than feeding it to pigs. Some months ago I submitted a memorandum to the Minister, following the closing of Matterson's Bacon Factory in Limerick, in which I expressed my concern at the fact that here we had one of the oldest established industries, an industry with an international reputation for the quality of its products, having to close down and 120 men being put out of employment for the simple reason that there was not an adequate supply of pigs to keep that factory in production. I suggested that the Department of Agriculture and the Pigs and Bacon Commission should explore immediately the possibilities of establishing a large-scale pig production co-operative in the Limerick area. I had in mind that in Limerick city we have one of the largest milk processing factories at Lansdowne, and that throughout County Clare there is a large number of dairy farmers and most of the creameries in County Clare are under the control of the Dairy Disposal Company. I felt that this would be a way of ensuring that the remaining two bacon factories in Limerick would be able to continue production. The Minister informed me that he was not satisfied that co-operative fattening units provided a satisfactory method of pig production.

The Parliamentary Secretary to the Minister, who is sitting here, knows as well as I do, and in fact knows a lot better, the example in his constituency, in the Glen of Aherlow, where co-operative pig production has been successfully engaged in. The Minister informed me that he was having an examination carried out of the existing pig fattening units and the co-operative pig production units. There is nothing in his speech about this survey. There is no indication of what the Minister's intentions are, beyond a mention of an increase of a few shillings per cwt in the price of pigs. It has been proved very conclusively that the idea of organising pig production on co-operative lines is a good idea, one that has been put into practice in a number of different areas. I mentioned the one in the Glen of Aherlow but I understand that there is also a very successful one in Galway. This method whereby the farmer undertakes to keep the sows and produce the bonhams and the co-operative fattening station undertakes to buy the bonhams at fixed prices could not be more rational. I believe the only way to increase pig production is to put it on co-operative lines. When the Minister is replying, I hope he will give us some information regarding his intention and that of his Department concerning this most important question of pig production.

It is a tragedy that we have bacon industries closing down. I understand a second one, in Tralee, has now closed down. At the time of the closure of Matterson's, I happened to be in Manchester where I was invited to a reception at the Córas Tráchtála office a few days after the closure of the factory. Chatting to some people who import food products from Ireland, I found that every one of them expressed amazement at the closing and asked what was wrong that we had allowed an industry processing raw material of the hinterland in this renowned agricultural area and producing products which are known and which some of these people had been buying for 50 years, to go by the board. My answer was that the factories closed because we have no agricultural policy. I feel very strongly about the question of co-operation. I mentioned this on previous Agriculture Estimate debates. Perhaps I have a chip on my shoulder about it but I certainly intend to continue pressing for this method of organisation as long as I am here.

Progress has been made by the co-operative movement here. We have the example of co-operative creameries and co-operative livestock marts, and there are others, but in this country co-operation seems to stop short at the farmer's gate; it has not entered the farmer's yard. I repeat that I am convinced—and I think most people familiar with the social and economic situation in rural Ireland will agree— that one way in which the small farmers can be helped to survive is by showing them how they can organise themselves on co-operative lines to produce more efficiently. This has not been done and I greatly fear, having heard the Minister's speech, that there is no intention of facing up to the situation.

I have been referring to the dairying industry and I went off at a slight tangent, but I feel so strongly about the way the Government are neglecting to apply the principles of co-operation to Irish agriculture that I believe if they drop the idea we are wasting our time talking about agriculture and about western development and the survival of the small farmer.

Our milk production has shown a considerable increase both as regards milk delivered to creameries in 1966 compared with the previous year and the amount delivered to creameries in 1967 to date which shows a considerable increase also. Unfortunately, just as the heifer scheme led to a chaotic situation in the cattle industry, the increased milk production is leading to certain difficulties in the disposal of skim milk. The Minister refers in his speech to the production of quality milk and the incentives which the Government have provided and the additional incentives which are now being provided for quality milk production. He said that last year the results of the creamery milk quality grading scheme indicate that 48 per cent of the milk qualified for the special allowance in the past year as against 42 per cent in the previous year. He says these results are very encouraging and that he expects about 55 per cent of the milk delivered to creameries will reach the requisite standard in the current year.

Everybody agrees on the need to improve milk quality. It becomes a much more vital matter with the increase in milk output. The additional 1d per gallon this year will help and the grant for milk coolers will be of considerable assistance. The big difficulty as regards milk quality and the problem of the methylene blue test is the availability of adequate water supplies on farms. I am informed on reliable authority that no matter how high the standard of hygiene reached in milk production, unless the milk is quickly cooled to a certain temperature there is very little likelihood of the milk passing the three-hour methylene blue test and no hope at all of it passing the five-hour test. In some areas the five-hour test is applied and if the milk qualifies the farmers receive an additional bonus from the processing factory concerned. We must endeavour to bring up this figure of 48 per cent for the quantity of milk qualifying. The Minister expects that this year it will reach 55 per cent.

There are other problems in milk production also which I am pleased to see the Minister has mentioned in this speech. He refers to certain steps which are and will be taken to eliminate certain diseases, such as mastitis, which is a terrible scourge when it strikes a dairy herd. In certain creamery areas forward-looking managers and forward-looking committees have been carrying out mastitis herd tests in recent times where samples are taken and analysed in a laboratory and the recommendation sent back to the farmers at a very small fee. This is an excellent service and one which should be encouraged and assisted by the Government if necessary.

The Minister also referred in his speech to the re-organisation of the creamery industry. This subject was dynamite a year or one and a half years ago. It seems that for the past 12 months very little has been heard about it. A certain amount of re-organisation has been taking place and I believe further re-organisation will take place. I was very critical last year when speaking on this Estimate and especially in regard to the IAOS in regard to the question of the dairy farmers who got the impression they were being stampeded into accepting something and adopting something about which they had not been properly advised and on which they were not fully informed.

There is a notable change in attitude now on the part of the majority of dairy farmers and creamery committees towards this whole question of re-organisation. It is something which will create certain difficulties, particularly in the matter of the Dairy Disposal Company. I have referred to the fact that the Dairy Disposal Company do not seem to be able to compete with co-operatively-owned creamery units. The position is getting worse. I know a case in my constituency where farmers in one townland are sending their milk to the branch creamery of a large co-operative processing unit. The farmers in an adjoining townland are sending their milk to a branch of the Dairy Disposal Company. The farmers who are unfortunate enough to be sending their milk to the Dairy Disposal Company branch are receiving 6d per gallon less for top quality milk. This differential is ridiculous. I cannot see why the Dairy Disposal Company which is a semi-State body, cannot be as efficient as a co-operative enterprise.

While I am on the subject of the Dairy Disposal Company, there is another industry I should like to refer to which is administered by the Dairy Disposal Company. It is an ancillary industry which comes under the control of the Dairy Disposal Company and it is the worst example of inefficiency I have ever seen. I do not want to mention the name of the industry for a reason that will be obvious in a few moments. The industry I referred to has been in production since 1926. No attempt has been made to modernise this industry or to do anything to increase production with the result that this particular industry is under the threat of closure for the past six months.

I had discussions with some of the officials of the Dairy Disposal Company regarding this industry and I submitted a memorandum five and a half months ago. I am still awaiting some indication from the Dairy Disposal Company as to what they propose to do with this particular industry. The reason why I am not publicly mentioning this industry is that whatever little benefit this industry has would be destroyed if it were publicly known that it was in difficulties. I want the Minister to take up this matter. The Minister and his predecessor know this industry. The Minister's predecessor visited the industry some months ago. I now want some indication as to what will be the future of this industry which employs 100 people or so.

The Minister referred to the prospects for agriculture in the EEC. He really stated the obvious and there was nothing really original in his speech regarding the EEC. I believe there is a tendency to exaggerate the benefits that might be available if and when we join the European Economic Community. I believe our prospects in regard to the dairy industry will be good. Dairy production is not merely vital to my own constituency, it is vital to the whole future economy of this country. I understand that there are no quantitative restrictions within the EEC against imports from non-EEC countries but there is what one could call a levy or a threshold price.

I am convinced that the Irish dairy industry will reap certain benefits in the EEC provided the ordinary Irish dairy farmer is put in the position of producing top quality milk and our processing units become fully efficient and that we can produce quality milk products which will compare with the products of other dairy producing countries. If we can do this, I am convinced that there is a reasonably bright future for dairy products in the EEC. There is a situation that the average price for milk at present in the EEC, if I can correctly recall the figure, is 3/2d to 3/4d a gallon. If we enter the EEC and our creamery milk producers get 3/2d per gallon for milk, it will represent an increase of 50 per cent. There would be no problem regarding shortage of supply or of our capacity to avail of the opportunities that will be presented there.

The progress made by An Bord Bainne in the British market, particularly the Kerrygold campaign, clearly indicates that we can produce dairy products as efficiently, and of as high a quality, as Denmark or New Zealand, or any other dairy producing country. Provided our dairy farmers are assisted in the same way as the dairy farmers of Denmark are assisted by their Government to produce quality milk efficiently, and provided the rationalisation and re-organisation of the creamery industry is proceeded with, I believe there is a bright future for the Irish dairying industry in the EEC.

There is another problem to which very little reference is made in the Minister's speech, the question of agricultural credit. There is considerable dissatisfaction among the farming community in general regarding the availability of credit from the Agricultural Credit Corporation. I am informed that dairy farmers who went to the Agricultural Credit Corporation this spring for money to purchase additional cows, and who agreed to instruct their creamery manager to deduct monthly payments from their milk supply which would guarantee the repayment of the loan, were refused these credit facilities on the ground that they were already heavily committed. The extraordinary situation is that having failed to obtain credit facilities from the Agricultural Credit Corporation, many of these farmers went to independent commercial finance houses and in the very same conditions and terms of agreement, got all the facilities they needed, with one difference, that they had to pay probably three or four times the rate of interest.

I know of cases where farmers who had been turned down by the Agricultural Credit Corporation succeeded in getting loans from commercial finance houses and, as a result, were able to increase their herd by five or six, or up to ten in some cases. The Agricultural Credit Corporation will have to play a much more active part in the development of Irish agriculture. I understand that agricultural credit here is dearer than in any other agricultural country in western Europe. I understand the average rate of interest on loans for agricultural development in Denmark ranges from one to two per cent, and this is the average rate in most agricultural countries. I also feel that when loans were being made freely available a few years ago, a certain amount of unwise borrowing was indulged in. I know, from what I can gather from speaking to farmers, that a big problem in keeping up the repayments is the high rate of interest charged.

The Government will have to examine this whole question of agricultural credit much more carefully and the Agricultural Credit Corporation will have to buck up and realise that unless our farmers get adequate credit facilities in many cases, they will go out of business altogether. There is considerable dissatisfaction among the farming community with the attitude of the Agricultural Credit Corporation.

I understand also that only ten per cent of the total number of farmers have obtained loans from the ACC. With your permission, Sir, I should like to refer to an article in the Irish Farmers Journal of 27th May. It deals with agricultural credit and says that the great majority of our farmers are in need of capital. Yet, how many have availed of ACC loans? The figure is not more than ten per cent. It is a remarkably low figure and is certainly no credit to our advisory services who are foremost in the campaign to get these ideas across. The writer of this article blames the agricultural advisory services for the fact that more farmers have not availed of the facilities provided by the Agricultural Credit Corporation.

The Minister referred to the Agricultural Institute. When speaking on this Estimate last year, I criticised the Institute very severely on the ground that the vast amount of research work which was being carried out by them was not reaching the farmers. I expressed doubt that the result of this research work was being practically applied on Irish farms or, if it were, the results were not very striking. I have since taken trouble to investigate the work of the Agricultural Institute. I may have been over-critical. A vast amount of money is being spent on research work and I am doubtful if the results of this research are proving, and will prove in the future, of great benefit to the average farmer. There are farms—model farms, economic research farms—test farms I think they are called—being operated by the Institute, reports of which are produced every year.

In those reports there are fantastic figures for output; fantastic figures of production per acre, et cetera. But, of course, the snag is the amount of money poured into those farms by way of fertilisers, reseeding and all the modern management techniques. While it is possible for a body such as the Agricultural Institute to engage in financial expenditure to such an extent, the average farmer could not do so. He could not possibly hope to lay his hands on adequate finance to invest the same amount of money, per acre, on his own farm. I have no doubt that if the average farmer had the same financial resources available to him as these research stations, he would produce results. I have been told of a case where as high as six cwts. of fertiliser per acre are applied in Golden Vale land on a certain Agricultural Institute farm and, of course, the resulting grass production is fantastic.

Is it fertiliser or nitrogen?

A combination of the two—a total of six cwts. per statute acre, and the resulting grass production has been fantastic. This is the nearest I have seen, in practice, to one seeing the grass growing.

The Deputy should see my front lawn.

I want to be fair about this matter of the Agricultural Institute. I know that in certain lines or fields of research very interesting results have been produced but I know also that in other fields of research results are being produced which have already been produced by research stations in Britain and other countries.

I am all in favour of agricultural research but I think the Agricultural Research Institute should turn its attention more to seeking a solution, not of the technical problems of agricultural production but to the economic and social problems. There is a rural economy division in the Agricultural Institute which has done a certain number of surveys. Greater attention should be given to soil and the carrying out of surveys of land utilisation, and of the co-operation, to which I referred earlier, where a group of small farmers can combine or co-operate with one another to produce more effectively. I do not know whether the Agricultural Institute has carried out any research into the application of co-operative techniques in agricultural production. The Agricultural Institute has done some excellent work. I refer particularly to the soil survey carried out in County Limerick where very valuable information was compiled over a lengthy period and placed at the disposal of the local agricultural advisory officer; but there are lines of research which are, as yet, untouched. In some lines the surface has been barely scratched, while, in others, a considerable amount of work has been done. Perhaps the Institute could re-organise itself and concentrate a better effort along lines which would be of more practical benefit to the farming community of this country.

I was very critical last year of the work of the Agricultural Institute. I have investigated the situation since and I agree there is a need for an Agricultural Research Institute. I agree that very valuable work has been done by the Institute but I am wondering if research could be pursued along other lines.

There is another problem we discuss quite frequently and about which doubts are expressed; that is, is there a lack of co-operation or co-ordination between the three main bodies engaged in agricultural advisory work; the Agricultural Advisory Service, the Agricultural Institute and the Faculty of Agriculture in the National University? I am told there could be far more co-operation between these three bodies. I am told there could be greater co-ordination of the work engaged in by the three bodies concerned, that they could co-operate more effectively in channelling information to the local agricultural adviser.

Progress reported; Committee to sit again.
The Dáil adjourned at 10.30 p.m. until 3 p.m. on Wednesday, 31st May, 1967.
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