Dáil Éireann debate -
Thursday, 13 Jul 1967

Vol. 229 No. 12

Ceisteanna—Questions. Oral Answers. - Cattle Trade.

7.

Mr. Dillon

asked the Minister for Agriculture and Fisheries whether he is aware that prices for fat cattle on the Dublin market on 6th July were £10 and £12 a head below prices ruling a year ago; and that this collapse in fat cattle prices has brought the sale of young store cattle in western and north-western counties practically to a standstill; and whether he can make any statement on the future prospects for the cattle trade calculated to remedy the present serious situation of small farmers with store cattle.

8.

Mr. Clinton

asked the Minister for Agriculture and Fisheries if he is yet in a position to make an informative statement on the outcome of his discussions with the British Minister for Agriculture relating to the cattle trade.

9.

Mr. T. O'Donnell

asked the Minister for Agriculture and Fisheries if he will make a statement on his recent meeting with the British Minister for Agriculture regarding the cattle trade.

10.

Mr. M. O'Leary

asked the Minister for Agriculture and Fisheries if, in view of the bleak market prospects for the cattle trade, it is now his intention to subsidise the trade; if so, what interests involved will be subsidised; and the amount of the subsidy.

Mr. Blaney

With your permission, a Cheann Comhairle, I propose taking Questions Nos. 7, 8, 9 and 10 together.

During my meeting with the British Minister of Agriculture, Fisheries and Food on 7th July, we had a useful discussion on a wide range of aspects of the trade in store cattle, fat cattle and carcase beef between the two countries. We decided that certain questions arising out of our discussion should be considered immediately by officials and a meeting of Irish and British officials was held in Dublin on 11th July for this purpose. The further action to be taken will be decided upon after consideration of the officials' reports and I shall make a statement in the matter as soon as possible.

Fat cattle prices here are, of course, already supported by the subsidy on exports of carcase beef. As to the prospects for the cattle trade, I would point out that exports in the first half of this year have shown a very substantial increase on exports in the first half of 1966. Total exports of cattle, live and dead, have in fact been approximately 200,000 head higher than in the corresponding period of 1966. I am aware that the demand for young cattle is slack but the increased export marketings of mature cattle, to which I have referred, will help to provide an outlet for these younger animals.

Mr. Dillon

When the Minister speaks of supporting beef through the medium of the grant paid to these exporters, does he appreciate he is not reaching the producer, for the simple reason that there is a surplus of cattle available on the public market and the fall in the price of cattle on the public market by £10 to £12 per head has created a situation in which those who normally buy young cattle from the west of Ireland, Cavan, Monaghan and Donegal are not stocking because they are so apprehensive about the level of prices that may obtain at the back end of the year? While I appreciate the Minister's difficulty in attempting any kind of prognosis of the price of meat, I wonder would he be in a position to make any reassuring statement which would induce those who could carry larger numbers of store cattle to start buying because, at present, it is practically impossible to sell 18 months and 20 months cattle in the west of Ireland.

Mr. Blaney

I am sure the Deputy appreciates that the discussions I mentioned in my reply will have a bearing on the answers to his supplementary questions and I should not wish to comment at this stage any further on these matters.

Mr. Dillon

Will the Minister make a fuller statement before the House rises?

Mr. Blaney

I am hoping to, but, not being completely in control of the period at which these discussions may end, I may not be in a position to make such a statement. I am hoping to be and, if I am, I shall make a statement at the earliest possible moment.

Mr. M. O'Leary

My question referred solely to the possibility of subsidy. Am I correct in thinking the Minister did say that he was in fact considering such a subsidy later in the year?

Mr. Blaney

All these matters are inextricably entwined and the particular issue involved in the Deputy's question involves the entire. It is a matter that is under consideration in these talks but no conclusions have been reached and I have not come to any conclusion on this particular aspect.

Mr. M. O'Leary

The Minister mentioned specifically after his talks the last day the idea of a subsidy to be paid later this year and I am wondering how, if he was so clear after the talks, he can now be so opaque today?

Mr. Blaney

Not having seen the report of the alleged words, I cannot comment on these words.

Mr. M. O'Leary

Does the Minister recall stating that he would, in fact, consider a subsidy later this year?

Mr. Blaney

There is no question that consideration is being given to subsidies generally, including those already being paid. Further than that I cannot go.

Mr. M. O'Leary

The Irish taxpayer may, in fact, be called upon further to subsidise this trade later this year because the Anglo-Irish Free Trade Agreement has not come up to expectations in the matter of cattle. Is that the position?

Mr. Blaney

It is not the position. I do not see any purpose in trying to convince the Deputy because he seems to have his mind made up. All I can say is that the subsidy is under consideration.

Mr. Clinton

In view of the length of time these discussions are taking and in view of the fact that the Minister cannot tell us when they are likely to conclude, could the Minister tell the House what, if anything, he is doing in the meantime to reduce the gap between what the Irish farmer is being paid for his beef and what the British farmer is getting?

Mr. Blaney

We have not got the same facilities here for reducing these gaps as they have on the other side, as the Deputy well knows, and I am sure from Deputy O'Leary's intervention it must be obvious——

Mr. Clinton

It may be obvious to the Minister, but it is not obvious to me.

Mr. M. O'Leary

I was merely seeking information and the Minister did not give me any information.

Mr. M.P. Murphy

Seeing the Dáil will be adjourned shortly——

Mr. Dillon

That is a pious hope.

Mr. M.P. Murphy

——can the Minister state if it is likely that cattle prices will increase or decline within the next few months? I am sure the Minister is aware that many people have cattle on hands ready to sell but, owing to the low prices prevailing, particularly in relation to some classes, they are holding on. Can the Minister give any advice to such people?

(Interruptions.)

An Ceann Comhairle

Order.

Mr. Blaney

Deputy Murphy is, of course, aware that there is a normal decline at this time of the year. That is the normal pattern.

Mr. Clinton

They are at rock-bottom now.

Mr. M.P. Murphy

The outlook is not so bright because that is the answer given on every occasion. Apparently the decline is likely to continue. The Minister is pessimistic. He has answered the question.

Mr. Blaney

The Deputy may make his own assumptions. I am merely pointing out the well-known pattern.

Mr. M.P. Murphy

Where is the Anglo-Irish Trade Agreement now? What about the £10 million extra per annum which it was to bring to our farmers?

Mr. L'Estrange

Is it not true that payment of the subsidy to the meat factories instead of the producers has placed our exporters of store cattle at a serious disadvantage and has led to dumping of our beef on the British market, which has infuriated the British farmer and the British Government, and has got us into the trouble in which we are today? Is all that not due to paying the subsidy to the meat factory instead of to the producer?

Mr. Blaney

While there may be a grain of truth in what the Deputy says, his assertions at this particular time are anything but helpful.

Mr. L'Estrange

It is the argument the British Government are putting to the Minister at the moment.

Mr. Blaney

The Deputy should not put it in this House.

Mr. Boland

It is traditional in the case of Deputy L'Estrange.

Mr. L'Estrange

The Minister paid it to the meat factories instead of to the farmers. If the Minister had paid it to the farmers—but he would not pay it to them: they were not in TACA.

Mr. Blaney

How does the Deputy know I shall not pay it to them.

Mr. L'Estrange

We have been trying to get the Minister to do so for the past six months.

Mr. Blaney

I have been asking all the know-alls, including the Deputy, to say how it could reasonably be done and there has not been one suggestion——

Mr. L'Estrange

What about Deputy Clinton? Suggestions were made on numerous occasions.

Mr. Blaney

I am attending to the matter in my own time and in my own way.

Mr. L'Estrange

When the harm has been done.

Mr. Blaney

The Deputy should not cod himself and should not try to do harm at the moment.

Mr. L'Estrange

Will the Minister deny that cattle prices are down £20 since this time last year? The Minister should resign and get out.