asked the Taoiseach if he is in a position to say what is the present position concerning the application of this country to join the European Economic Community; and if he will make a statement on the matter.
3.
Ceisteanna—Questions. Oral Answers. - Membership of EEC.
2.
asked the Taoiseach if he will make a general statement on the present position of Ireland's entry into the EEC; and if he will comment on his trips abroad in recent months in regard to this matter.
4.
asked the Taoiseach what progress has been made regarding Ireland's application for membership of the EEC.
With your permission, a Cheann Comhairle, I propose to take Questions Nos. 2, 3 and 4 together.
As Deputies will be aware, the Council of the European Economic Community at its meeting on the 10th July, 1967, decided, as a first step, to refer the applications of Ireland and of the other applicant countries to the Commission for an opinion. In a comprehensive Report dated the 29th September the Commission unanimously recommended the opening of negotiations with the applicant States in order to examine thoroughly the problems raised by their applications and to see if solutions consistent with the need for maintenance of cohesion and dynamism in an enlarged Community are possible. The Commission's Report is to come before the Council for further consideration at its meeting on the 23rd October.
Deputies will have seen the communiqués issued and the statements I made at the close of my visits to the Governments of five of the six Member countries. I was greatly encouraged by the warm support for Ireland's application which I received from all of these Governments. In completion of this series of visits I am to have discussions in Paris on the 3rd November with the President of France and with the Prime Minister, the Foreign Minister and other members of the French Government.
Is the Taoiseach in a position to say when the negotiations will start on our application?
I am not.
Has any definite date whatever been given?
No definite date has been given. The meeting on the 23rd October will be important in that respect.
In the meantime, could the Taoiseach arrange to have copies of the Commission's report circulated? There is a great deal of difficulty in getting them.
The Deputy is aware that they are circulated from Belgium in French and that translation has had to be made. That will have to be checked, and that having been done, I certainly would make arrangements to have copies circulated.
Would the Taoiseach make use of the services of our muchtravelled Minister for External Affairs in this matter? Could he say whether the Departments of External Affairs have conveyed to him any intimation as to the possible attitude of General de Gaulle to this country in this whole situation?
The services of the Minister for External Affairs are available to me and have been usefully employed in the work as to our preliminary application. As far as General de Gaulle is concerned, we get the same services from Paris as from the other members of the Diplomatic Services, and this is an excellent services.
Does the Taoiseach now say, or is he in a position to say even without telling the House, what the attitude of France will be to the efforts of this country?
I have not yet met the Prime Minister of France.
Can we take it that our Diplomatic Office has been of no use to you in this direction?
I have got several reports from this diplomat.
The Diplomatic Office——
I am sorry; I thought the Deputy referred to a diplomat in Paris.
Will the Taoiseach meet the President of France personally?
Certainly.
Is this certain?
I have an arrangement——
That you will meet the President of France?
I will be meeting the President of France.
5.
asked the Taoiseach whether membership of the EEC will, should it become a fact, mean that Irish control of this country's military commitments will disappear and be replaced by the overall authority of the Council of Ministers.
The Treaty of Rome does not contain any provisions which require new members, on entry to the European Economic Community, to surrender in any way the control now exercised by them in regard to military commitments and the Council of Ministers have no function in the matter under the Treaty.
May we take it then that a recent speech by a former Minister of the present Government at Strasbourg—and I refer to the present Deputy MacEntee—which suggested that we were going in as a nation holusbolus, with the full military and other commitments that would be called for by the Six, has no foundation in fact, and that that is yet another excercise of Deputy MacEntee's imagination?
I have said that our application for membership has been made without reserve and so far political involvement or obligations have not been worked out. When we become members of the EEC, we will have our say in these political obligations. As of now there is nothing in the Rome Treaty obliging any member Government to undertake any political obligation.
Any political obligation?
Yes.
That is a generous statement.
It is an economic market and there is nothing about political obligations in the Treaty but the Preamble implies political obligations.
I am sorry Deputy MacEntee is not here. It would be an amusing thing to hear him explain himself away. Nobody over there is defending him either.
We are not defending your interpretation of what he said.
(Interruptions.)
We will give you ten minutes to explain.
We will get a parish priest's representation from you.
6.
asked the Taoiseach whether the Government have yet conceived a clear picture of the probable economic consequences of Ireland's entry into the EEC, particularly as it will affect employment in industry and the cost of living; and, if so, when this information will be provided to the Dáil.
I would refer the Deputy to my comprehensive statement in this House on the 25th July last on the reactivation of this country's application for membership of the European Economic Community. In that statement I dealt with the question of the implications for this country of membership of the Community in so far as they could be assessed at that time. This information will be supplemented as and when possible. As I have already indicated to the House, the extent to which details of the implications for Ireland of EEC membership can be publicised must be governed by the necessity of not prejudicing our negotiating position. The implications in particular sectors will depend on the terms of entry negotiated.
Surely the Taoiseach is aware that many thousands of workers in this country are concerned to know in simple terms what will happen to them and their jobs in the particular application involved? He must be aware that the statement he refers to which he made previously offers nothing by way of solution to the very vital problem of these workers. Is he not conscious of his responsibility to try everything——
This is a speech.
I have no wish or intention to make a speech of it. I ask the Taoiseach when he will tell us, when he will explain to the people and the workers of the nation—the whole nation—the industrial and agricultural workers, what will happen to them in this situation? It is not sufficient that we should have vague assessments made in Civil Service language which nobody can translate.
There were members of Deputy Dunne's own political organisation and the labour movement involved in the most detailed analysis yet made of our industrial work in the form of membership of the CIO. These reports were made available, the prognostications as to redundancy were made available, the recommendations for preventing them were made and were and are being fully implemented in so far as it is possible to complete implementation of them by the Government.
Does the Taoiseach accept the implications which are to the effect that this will mean 30,000 unemployed forthwith?
The Deputy obviously has not read the report made by the CIO. The figures given were that without any adaptation, it could be up to 20,000. With adaptation, that figure could be reduced to one-quarter.
Does the Taoiseach accept that that is not so, as he says that he is satisfied that adaptation has proceeded to change these figures?
We are never satisfied that enough is being done.
Is the Taoiseach satisfied that these figures do not apply?
These figures apply. We are not yet members of the Community. Deputy Dunne gives a figure of 30,000 which he got from nowhere.
You have the Irish people where you always had them.