Vol. 230 No. 8
asked the Minister for Justice if he is aware of the need to amend the Landlord and Tenant Acts so as to enable tenants to purchase their ground rents, as the Act as at present drafted prevents certain tenants in Dún Laoghaire, Sandycove and elsewhere, from buying out the ground rents; and if, in view of the hardship involved for these tenants, he will take immediate steps to have the necessary amendments introduced.
88.
asked the Minister for Justice if he is aware that a large number of ground rent tenants are not covered or protected by the Landlord and Tenant (Ground Rents) Act, 1967; and, if so, what steps he is taking to protect the interests of these tenants.
With your permission, a Cheann Comhairle, I propose to take Questions Nos. 87 and 88 together.
As I mentioned when the Ground Rents Bill was being debated, I have asked the Landlord and Tenant Commission to inquire whether persons, other than those already given the right to a reversionary lease under the Landlord and Tenant (Reversionary Leases) Act, 1958, should be given that right as well as the right to purchase the fee simple. The Commission have received evidence from certain tenants in Dún Laoghaire and Sandycove who, as matters stand, have no statutory right either to purchase the fee simple or to obtain a renewal of their tenancies. When I have the Commission's report in the matter, I shall consider the question of fresh legislation.
As the Minister stated, the tenants in question have been received by the Commission and made representations, but there is this difficulty. Some of the cases at present pending against individual tenants will be decided before the Commission reports and before any legislation is introduced. Can the Minister consider either making the legislation retrospective or include a clause in it that would compensate tenants who are adversely affected by any court decision?
I had the chairman of the Commission in with me on this interim report I am expecting and he assured me I would get it as early as possible. I would consider doing what Deputy Cosgrave said in the light of his recommendation.
The difficulty is that a number of cases are now pending in which the landlord is taking action and the tenants are contesting those cases individually. If an adverse decision is taken in respect of those, it may be of no use when legislation is passed. In those special circumstances, would the Minister now consider indicating that an amendment be introduced which will cover cases like that either with retrospective effect or by means of some form of compensation.
Would the Minister not consider introducing legislation as a matter of urgency, without waiting for recommendations from the Landlord and Tenant Commission? Is he aware that in one case a person was asked to pay £3,000 where in the normal course of events he would pay £250? Why was this? Has the Minister any comment to make on this?
Like all legal matters, there are rights and wrongs on both sides and it is my job to balance between the landlord and tenants' interests. I would not like to comment on what may be submitted to me by the chairman of the Commission. When I have received the Commission's report, I will have to take into view what recommendations will be necessary in the light of what is contained in the report, which I hope to get very shortly. As I say, I will consider what has been suggested by Deputy Cosgrave and Deputy Andrews in the light of that report.
The case I referred to means that this man is asked to pay £3,000 whereas if he were covered by existing legislation, he would have to pay only £250. I think you will agree this is a disgraceful situation. Further arising out of this, there are two old ladies residing in two houses for 40 years and they have the same type of problem. I think, with respect, that this is a matter for immediate legislation. I am quite sure, having been to the Commission with Deputy Cosgrave, that the members were very sympathetic to the tenants and I believe the decision of the Chairman of the Commission will support us——
The Deputy is making a speech.
Could the Minister not make an order freezing the situation until this legislation is brought in at a later date? Extreme hardship is being suffered by a small number of people.
A lot arises out of the manner in which these particular leases were prepared. The lease in this case was prepared in such a way as to exclude the benefits of the Ground Rents Act. That is not my fault or the fault of the landlord or tenants. I have to look at this in a very judicial manner. I cannot make ad hoc decisions in matters of this kind, matters of legal rights and matters that have been entered into legally.
That is very doubtful as well.
I have had a discussion, as I say, with the Chairman of the Commission very recently, and I am aware that he has been hearing evidence, and he has assured me that with all expedition, I will have this report at an early date.
I think the Minister should be aware that in the case with which we are concerned, and in every case, the landlords in question are planter landlords whose titles are very doubtful, and I think very doubtful in this matter of the attitude of the strong against the weak or the bully against those who are unable to fight for themselves.
I shall bear all these considerations in mind. The Ground Rents Act was designed to cover these cases. It covers all that but excludes certain leases. I will bear in mind what Deputy Cosgrave suggested. If it emerges from the report on my examination, I will certainly bear that in mind with a view to remedying the situation in legislation.
(Cavan): If the Minister anticipates that the law will be changed in the course of a year or so, and if at the present time new rents are being fixed at a very high level, or perhaps being bought out at a large price by landlords who are not resident in the country and who might, of necessity, come under the jurisdiction of the courts when the Minister introduces the legislation he has in mind, would he consider introducing a short Act immediately extending the time for applying for new leases, until such time as he has had an opportunity of considering the whole process of introducing the legislation he has in mind?
I shall look into that. I am anxious to be helpful but it is a question of rights and wrongs on both sides. I shall treat it as a matter of urgency.
