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Dáil Éireann debate -
Thursday, 9 May 1968

Vol. 234 No. 9

Broadcasting (Offences) Bill, 1967: Second Stage.

I move that the Bill be now read a Second Time.

The purpose of the Bill is to enable Ireland to ratify the Council of Europe Agreement entitled "European Agreement for the Prevention of Broadcasts transmitted from Stations outside National Territories" which was signed on behalf of Ireland, subject to ratification, on 9th March, 1965. The agreement binds each contracting party to take appropriate steps to make punishable as offences, in accordance with its domestic law, the establishment or operation of broadcasting stations on board ships, aircraft, etc., outside national territories, as well as defined acts of collaboration knowingly performed. These defined acts of collaboration include the provision of equipment, supplies, programme material and advertising for such stations.

As Deputies will be aware, the radio frequency spectrum is limited. Before a new radio station can be established, it is necessary for the sponsors to decide what frequency they propose to use. But as all broadcasting frequencies are already being used, and since radio transmissions in one country can interfere with radio reception in another, there must be international agreement and regulation regarding the use of frequencies. The international organisation which is responsible for the regulation of the use of frequencies is a specialised agency of the United Nations known as the International Telecommunications Union. This union has over 120 member nations, who have undertaken to observe the International Telecommunications Convention and the Radio Regulations annexed thereto. These regulations provide for the orderly allocation and use of radio frequencies, with the object of enabling the optimum use to be made of the radio spectrum and to avoid harmful interference between transmissions.

One of these regulations provides that no transmitting station may be established or operated by any private person or enterprise without a licence issued by the Administration of the country to which the station in question is subject. Another regulation prohibits the establishment and use of broadcasting stations on board ships, aircraft or any other floating or air-borne objects on or over the high seas.

The persons or companies against whom the Bill is directed, and whom I may refer to as pirate broadcasters, deliberately break these regulations by appropriating any wavelengths which suit their purposes—and the wavelengths selected are such as to give wide coverage for commercial ends irrespective of the consequences to legitimate users of the spectrum.

The problem of "pirate" broadcasting, that is broadcasting by commercial interests usually from ships flying a flag of convenience—or no flag at all—anchored outside territorial waters, has been a matter of concern to the European Conference of Postal and Telecommunication Administrations—of which the Department of Posts and Telegraphs is a member— and to the European Broadcasting Union—of which Radio Telefís Éireann is a member—for some years. Both organisations had been pressing their members to urge their Governments to take action to suppress such "pirate" stations even before the Council of Europe Agreement on this matter was signed in 1965.

I have mentioned the interference which these pirate stations can cause to legitimate broadcasting stations but a matter of more serious concern is the ease with which these transmissions can spill over into the distress and emergency frequencies used by ships, lighthouses and coast stations. There were times when the activities of a well-known pirate station affected our coast station at Malin Head and our lighthouses along the east coast. On one occasion Malin Head coast station was unable to receive distress signals from a fishing trawler and my Department had to bring interference with essential lighthouse services to the notice of the pirate station concerned. I will say that the station in question did rectify the position quickly but it was a hazard which can recur when pirate stations are in operation.

Legitimate stations are subject to many rules. The laws of libel, copy-right, contracts, conditions of employment and the general gamut of regulation apply as they do to any business in the State. However, the pirates operating outside territorial waters are subject to no such restraints. My understanding is that so far as the pirate is concerned the property of creative artists and the whole field of copyright property is there for the taking.

The existence of "pirate" stations could also adversely affect RTE income from advertising and could give rise to interference which might seriously impair reception of the Irish programmes. Serious interference was actually caused for a time to reception on the Dublin wavelength—1250 kc/s —by a pirate broadcaster operating off Scotland.

As in every sphere of activity the Government are concerned to preserve law and order in the use of radio frequencies. It was evident from the number of pirate stations that had been established around the north-west coast of European in 1962 that some positive and concerned action on agreed lines was essential. Hence the European Agreement. This lays an obligation on us as one of its signatories to make punishable as offences not merely the establishment or operation of stations on Irish ships, or by Irish nationals on any ship, but also certain acts of collaboration—for instance, the provisioning of ships engaged in pirate broadcasting.

The Agreement has been signed by 12 Administrations. The following members of the Council of Europe have introduced legislation: Britain, France, Sweden, Belgium, Norway, Denmark, Finland, which is not a member of the Council of Europe, has introduced legislation towards the same end.

Deputies will recall the speed with which pirate stations operating round the British coast closed down on the enactment of legislation by Britain. There is little doubt that if we show any hesitation in ratifying the European Agreement, ships carrying these stations will operate from our shores. Britain and the other European countries are looking to us to close a gap which we, as a member of the Council of Europe, have undertaken to do. This is really an obligation shared by every member of the International Telecommunications Union.

The promoters of pirate broadcasting stations have shown a flair for finding and exploiting loopholes in the law of different countries. They are mainly interested in broadcasting to densely populated areas and can be expected to start broadcasting to Britain from positions off the Irish coast if there is any long delay in enacting legislation here now that the British Bill has become law, or if the Irish legislation contains some loop-hole which does not exist in Britain. The Bill before you is, therefore, designed to correspond as closely as possible with British legislation in this matter.

The Bill will enable the Government to deal effectively with any pirate broadcasting station within our territorial limits or from our waters. Sections 2 and 3 make all such broadcasting unlawful and also broadcasts from Irish registered ships operating anywhere. The net is widely cast as to the persons who can be found guilty of offences, namely, the owner and master of the ship or aircraft and everyone operating or participating in the working of the station. It also covers agents or companies on shore that assist in the operations.

Signatories to the European Agreement were aware of the difficulties of getting at stations which operate on the high seas. Power is being taken in the Bill to deal with Irish nationals if they operate stations in any ship or aircraft on or over the high seas regardless of the place of registration of the ship. These powers are extended in section 4 to marine structures outside the State. I should perhaps stress that it will be an offence for anyone in the State, whatever his nationality, to arrange for broadcasting to take place in any ship, aircraft or structure on or over the high seas.

Sections 5 and 6 spell out what I referred to earlier as "acts of collaboration". They make it an offence to aid in any way the setting-up or operation of pirate broadcasting stations by provisioning them, transporting goods or persons to or from them, maintaining them, or participating in any way in their broadcasting activities. The provisions of this section will of course be interpreted reasonably; the phrase "knowingly performed" is in this connection very relevant and, naturally, the situations that could arise in which it would be necessary to give aid and comfort to people engaged in pirate broadcasting have not been overlooked. These situations — distress, shipwreck, illness and so on — are covered in section 8. Aside from these humanitarian exceptions, provision is made in section 7 for the prosecution of offenders, summarily or on indictment, and such proceedings may be instituted anywhere in the State.

Clause 9 provides for authorisation by wireless telegraphy licence of what is otherwise prohibited under the other provisions of the Bill. The need for this section requires no explanation.

This Bill is needed for five main reasons—

(1) to enable us to honour our obligations to other broadcasting organisations—and for this all the provisions of the Bill are essential;

(2) to protect the effectiveness of our distress and emergency radio communications which can be jeopardised seriously by the operations of pirate broadcasters;

(3) to protect performers' rights;

(4) to prevent the irregular and improper use of broadcasting for seditious, libellous, etc., purposes;

(5) to prevent a drain-off of the advertising revenue of our own broadcasting services.

I understand that there was disappointment in certain quarters at the disappearance of the pirate broadcasting stations and that some people have charged that the legislation against them is oppressive and undemocratic and shows a disregard of the wishes of the people. It has also been represented as an attack on commercial broadcasting because the pirates' activities were - entirely financed through advertising. Needless to say, the pirate broadcasters themselves have not hesitated to encourage these ideas and in doing so they have been aided by the fact that they have had a powerful propaganda medium at their disposal. As I have shown however the operations of unauthorised broadcasting stations which are responsible to nobody and which exist only for the purpose of commercial gain, can ultimately produce a condition of chaos in which broadcasting as we know it will quickly become impossible.

Because some of the pirate stations broadcast programmes which had a particular appeal to the young it has been suggested that their suppression indicates a lack of concern for the views of young people. This is of course not so. If pirate broadcasting were allowed to continue the time would soon come when neither young nor old would be able to rely on receiving any sound broadcasting service. If we allowed this to happen we would indeed lay ourselves open to the charge of disregarding the will of the people and our responsibilities to them.

It should be clear from all this that any kind of pirate broadcasting station, irrespective of the kind of programme transmitted, will have to be suppressed.

For the reasons I have outlined the enactment of this legislation is an obligation and a necessity. Similar legislation in Britain has resulted in the suspension of the activities of pirate broadcasters. If we are dilatory in following suit there is a real danger that we will have one or more of these unwelcome visitors operating off our shores. I therefore recommended the Bill to the House.

In so far as this Bill proposes to ratify the Council of Europe Agreement on broadcasting generally, we certainly welcome it. Without a Bill such as this, wavelengths would become a complete jungle. It would be impossible to have any organised or recognised wavelengths for transmitting or receiving. In so far as this Bill is concerned with the abolition of pirate stations, we welcome it and it will have our full support. What I have to say, apart from that, may possibly be said more in ignorance than otherwise.

May I preface my remarks by asking if it is necessary for our fishing fleet to have licences for their wireless transmitting sets?

They all have to have licences. They are all licensed by my Department.

That is what I wanted to know. I understood that a fishing vessel on a limited wavelength —the trawler band, as it is known—had not got such a transmission licence.

They have a licence.

That simplifies the matter very much indeed. It brings me to another point. The Minister issues a licence to our fishing fleet whereby they may send messages to their base as to their catches, the condition of their catches, the weather and conditions at sea generally. However, the Minister refuses a licence to the base to communicate with such ships to inform them of the condition of the market and whether it is to their advantage or otherwise to come into port. That is something I have pressed in the House on several occasions and the Minister has refused to grant such a licence.

I cannot, for the life of me, see the difference between a licence granted to the base of a fishing fleet and the licence granted to the garage in which radio cars are generally based to permit them to communicate with the cars while in transit. If the Minister could issue a licence—and if, again, I may use one of the Donegal ports as an example—to Killybegs whereby Killybegs could, within a radius of, say 50 or 60 miles, communicate with the Killybegs fleet while at sea, and permit them to receive those messages, it would be of considerable advantage to the fishing fleet and to the economy of the fishing industry.

It does not arise on this Bill.

It is quite possible that it would arise. Again, what is the position of foreign trawlers fishing within our 12 miles radius who carry a homing waveband? They are permitted to send messages to the home port. They are within our territorial waters. We do not issue a licence to them. How are we to prosecute such ships which are duly licensed in their own country? We are placing them at an advantage or at a disadvantage in relation to our own home fleet.

Take, for example, a German trawler based at Hamburg which is fishing, say, within a radius of 12 miles of the part of our coast in which it is permitted to fish. Such a ship may transmit messages, other than messages of navigation and for the purpose of security, direct to its home port and to its owners. We have absolutely no control whatsoever over such a ship despite the fact that its messages are received in this country. What is the position there?

The Minister prohibits any ship within Irish territorial waters from using wireless telegraphy—and it is defined in the section. But these foreign boats, which are legitimately within our territorial waters, are permitted to use wireless telegraphy not by our law but by the law of their own country. What control have we over such ships? For instance, if such a ship decides to become a pirate station, and uses the licence issued to it by its country of registration, what control have we over such a ship? We have no powers of arrest. The licence has been duly issued. I should like to know what the position would be in such a case.

We do know that if an Irish citizen is abroad or if Irish property is used to assist, or if there is connivance, they can be prosecuted. Supposing, for a second, a ship operating with a licence from this country for wireless telegraphy with its home port is used on the high seas, or in German territorial waters, who would prosecute? Is there any provision under the European agreement for prosecutions in such cases or do we merely shut our eyes and say: "We have no method of apprehending"? Is there reciprocal agreement whereby such a ship would automatically lose its licence in the home country? These are matters which possibly could better be clarified on Committee Stage. So far as the Bill is designed to end piracy in broadcasting we certainly welcome it.

I should like to support the measure introduced by the Minister. It is abundantly clear that if piracy in broadcasting were not to be curtailed—or, should I say, stopped— there would be chaos in broadcasting. That having been said, there are a few matters on which the Minister should satisfy the House. I can appreciate the action that can be taken and the powers that states have in respect of their territorial waters but I wonder who is in control of what are described as the high seas? If one of these pirate stations is established on a ship or a vessel somewhere between the limits of the territorial waters of this country and the territorial waters of Great Britain, have the states power to act? Or does the Convention that was signed—I am sure it does not, because it is only a Convention of the Council of Europe which would not have the force of domestic or international law—cover the matter? In any case, who acts if, for example, the ship is to be appropriated? Is it the Irish Government or the British Government? The Minister will probably be able to clear up that point.

Does this mean that there is an absolute prohibition on broadcasting from the high seas? Would it be possible for one of these pirate stations to apply to become a member of the International Telecommunications Union, and if they apply for a frequency, is there any possibility that it would be granted to them by this Association comprising over 120 nations?

I am well aware of the concern of the young people at the disappearance of a particular station that has been described as a pirate station. I know also they got a tremendous amount of enjoyment from it and I am aware that there is—or was—floating around the country a petition seeking to protect this particular pirate station from the proposed legislation of the British Government a few months ago. The Minister had occasion to say that this particular pirate station was of particular appeal to the young people. I suppose it was due to the fact that for many hours during the day, interspersed with commercials, we had from it continuous pop music. The young people cannot complain unduly about the absence of pop music from broadcasting generally. I say this being an "oldie". If I had any complaint about Irish radio stations or, indeed, British, I should say that we had far too much of it but I am not in a position to judge because I am not of the pop group or the pop age.

These are the questions I should like to ask the Minister: What definite control have we over broadcasting from what would be regarded as the high seas within our half of the stretch of water between Britain and Ireland? If any of these states now deemed to be pirates apply to be included in the international list of frequencies, is there any possibility that their request would be granted? Are moves being made by the other countries of the Council of Europe to introduce similar legislation? I note that Britain has introduced the legislation and so have Belgium, France, Norway, Sweden and Denmark, but there are other countries of the Council of Europe— I assume they have all signed the Convention—who have not as yet introduced legislation, such as Holland, West Germany and Italy. Whether these countries intend to promote this type of legislation I do not know.

However, the Bill, in principle, has my support because I recognise that if Ireland were to be encircled by pirate radio stations, we would certainly feel it here very much. There have been very many complaints over the years about bad reception from Radio Éireann sound broadcasting, particularly in South-West Cork and in my area, to some extent—it has greatly improved recently—in Wexford. If we were to have these various pirate radio stations, I reckon reception from Radio Éireann would be very poor indeed.

I support the Bill generally, and, as Deputy O'Donnell said, we shall have an opportunity of having the various proposals clarified on Committee Stage.

Anyone who has heard the Minister's speech must accept the need for this Bill which will afterwards become an Act. The fact that such a Bill is necessary in countries all over Europe points out to us that there must have been a need for those stations, that there was some demand for what they turned out. They were able to reach a public that paid them to do so and in this way they were in contact with a number of people who thought it worth while to listen to them. Everybody knows their appeal lay in the music they broadcast. This is called pop music and it appeals mostly to people of a certain age group, teenagers; but I think it must be admitted that even those who belong to the group Deputy Corish calls the "oldies", found some satisfaction in it. Naturally, like all things that are produced, there is the good and the bad, and we should not set out to condemn the good with the bad. The situation that will arise due to the fact that all pirate stations will, as far as possible, be off the air should provide us with an opportunity for further development of our radio station. Perhaps this can be done by making it more powerful, by a different approach to the programmes and deciding where consumers' tastes lie.

I do not say that everything national and everything of cultural value should be put off the radio station. We must preserve those things, even though we may at times have to make some definite effort to do so, but at the same time we should face the situation that presents itself to us. I suggest that the Minister's Department and RTE set out to fill this void that exists. If it is necessary that our programmes should contain a large amount of pop, let it be good pop and let this pop be broadcast to the teenagers and those interested by people who would have respect for the teenagers. From time to time those men make comments which are of interest to the listeners and which in fact are listened to, and I think that in making those appointments, RTE should pay particular attention to the people appointed.

This has nothing to do with the Bill. We did not know this was involved when it was introduced. We could all have had a contribution to make on this basis. Perhaps you would indicate, Sir, whether we can raise the same matters as have been raised by Deputy Gibbons.

The discussion is strictly confined to broadcasting offences.

I only want to make it clear. I am not looking for the right to do this at all.

The Chair would not agree. The Chair allowed Deputy Gibbons to conclude.

It could be quite a long debate, you will appreciate, if we were to talk about Radio Telefís Éireann generally. I do not think that was intended.

We shall see what the afternoon brings.

Debate adjourned.
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