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Dáil Éireann debate -
Wednesday, 19 Jun 1968

Vol. 235 No. 9

Ceisteanna—Questions. Oral Answers. - Higher Education Grants.

43.

asked the Minister for Education whether under the new grants scheme for higher education, mathematics with honours will be reckoned as two subjects as was the position under the old scholarship scheme.

I do not propose to have honours mathematics at the leaving certificate examination treated as two subjects for the purpose of awards under the higher education grants scheme.

44.

asked the Minister for Education if he will consider extending higher education grants to qualifying pupils already in university and other higher education institutions as failure to give grants to such needy students will place them in a less favourable position than their colleagues; and if he will give the estimated cost of extending grants to such students.

As I have already stated in Dáil Éireann, the new higher education grants scheme will apply to students who sit for the leaving certificate examination in 1968 and subsequently. It is not proposed to extend the scheme to students already pursuing higher education courses. To do so would involve an additional expenditure of the order of one million pounds.

Is the Minister aware of a category of students who did the leaving certificate in 1967 and who have now no means of availing of the scheme which is available to all students doing the leaving certificate in 1968 and after? Would the Minister not consider affording such students an opportunity of presenting themselves for a matriculation examination or some such test that would put them on a basis of parity with other students who are actually sitting beside them in the university classroom?

We discussed all this in the debate on the Bill in this House in recent weeks. Every time the Government bring in progressive measures of this kind this arises. A start has to be made and a start is being made from this year on. As I have mentioned in reply to the question, a substantial amount of money, £1 million, would be involved in making this retrospective. There is the added social injustice that would arise in regard to the boys and girls who did not go to university over the past few years because they could not afford it. What is being suggested is that we should extend the scheme so as to subsidise the boys and girls whose parents could afford to make the initial decision to send them to university. If we were to extend the scheme to the boys and girls who could not afford to go, the cost would be far more than £1 million.

Where a boy or girl secured the requisite four honours in the leaving certificate of 1967 and was not able to go to the university but desires to go this year, having got the requisite four honours last year, is there no means of admitting that boy or girl to the benefit of the scheme?

If in social justice you admit the boy or girl of 1967, why not admit the boy or girl of 1966, 1965, and so on? As I say, in regard to the students already in university whom Deputy O'Connell wishes to subsidise, the amount would be £1 million and I would say if we were to extend it to the boys and girls who could not go to university because their parents could not afford it, it might run up to £10 million.

Increase the percentage for education and you will solve this.

We have started something that was never done before.

The percentage has dropped from——

Will the Deputy allow Questions to proceed for the few remaining minutes?

If a boy or girl got the leaving certificate in 1967 and were to repeat the leaving certificate in 1968, what would happen?

Such a boy or girl would be eligible for the grant.

You are spending less of the national income.

We could always reduce the old age pension by 1/- again, as you did.

45.

asked the Minister for Education if it is a fact that the recent university grants scheme does not apply to teacher training colleges; and, if so, if he will consider extending the same facilities to trainee teachers in training colleges.

As these grants apply only to university institutions and to other institutions awarding qualifications of university degree standard, the scheme of grants does not apply to training colleges for national teachers.

A separate set of conditions will apply to these colleges.

Because of the non-application of these grants to the training colleges and the number of trainee teachers who will now be in a position to avail of a university education, is it intended to have a new scheme of grants which will enable them to go to the university? Otherwise, the standard of the teachers will naturally be low.

The problem here is that economic circumstances forced many people into teacher training. The standard has been in the region of 5.3 honours per person, more than twice the standard in every other European country. Due to the economic circumstances boys and girls were forced into teacher training who otherwise would have gone on to the university. They will now be able to go on to the university under our higher grants scheme. The future of the teacher training colleges is wrapped up in the proposals for higher education which we will be announcing shortly. It is proposed to integrate the training colleges with the university system and that there will be a type of degree as a teaching qualification. This problem will not arise from September 12 months. We hope that the curriculum will be devised before that. The fees for a girl trainee are £100 per year and for a male trainee £105. There is a substantial contribution of £300 which is paid by the State. This figure of £105 covers everything in regard to training, the college and the digs. We must remember that a girl gets £100 and a boy £105.

Which is repaid.

That is only for this year. We will not have this difficulty from September 12 months. The colleges will be integrated into the university system.

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