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Dáil Éireann debate -
Thursday, 24 Oct 1968

Vol. 236 No. 8

Ceisteanna—Questions. Oral Answers. - Holders of Liquor Licences.

56.

asked the Minister for Justice what steps he is taking or proposes to take to assist the holders of intoxicating liquor licences granted under paragraph 2 of section 2 of the Licensing Act, 1902 who are now impeded by the provisions of section 20 of the Intoxicating Liquor Act, 1960.

As the Deputy is, no doubt, aware, section 20 of the Intoxicating Liquor Act, 1960, was designed to give substantive effect to a recommendation of the Intoxicating Liquor Commission to the effect that the special privilege afforded to hotels to get liquor licences should in future be reserved to premises satisfying the Bord Fáilte standards for registration as hotels.

The Deputy's question is applicable only to a small minority of guesthouses —less than 20 of the existing 500 registered premises—which, since 1960, obtained licences as hotels even though the law was quite clear and explicit that these licences could not be renewed.

While I have every sympathy with the people concerned, I can see no possible justification for giving them preferential treatment as compared with the many other guesthouse owners who had exactly the same right to apply for a licence but who were deterred from doing so by the clear provisions of section 20.

Neither would I be prepared to sponsor legislation which would extend to all owners of guesthouses with ten bedrooms the right to a licence. This is precisely what the Commission objected to.

The difficulty is that guesthouses, as such, have no obligation to provide any service, such as a meals service, to the public-at-large and there is no possible reason for putting them in a privileged position as compared with restaurant-owners, for example. Some of the guesthouses, of course, do in fact provide an excellent meals-service, but this does not arise out of their obligations as guesthouse owners.

It seems to me, therefore, that if the law is to be changed, some more appropriate criterion than whether a premises is a guesthouse will have to be sought. Needless to say, any change that might be made would need to be very carefully considered.

The Minister is well aware that he is talking nonsense about this whole question. Is the Minister not aware that there was a Supreme Court decision in April of this year that gives these people the right, whether they got the licence after 1960 or before 1960, to get an ordinary publican's licence and have it transferred at the district court without notice to anybody? Is the Minister going to insist pursuant to that judgment that these people will have to buy a licence? Is the Minister not aware of that decision?

What I am concerned with here is not any High Court decision but section 20 of this particular Act, the Intoxicating Liquor Act (No. 15 of 1960) which reads:

An application for a certificate for the renewal of a licence in respect of which effect was given to subsection (1) of section 42 of the Tourist Traffic Act, 1952, or which was granted after the passing of this Act by virtue of paragraph (2) of section 2 of the Act of 1902 shall not be granted unless it is shown to the satisfaction of the Court hearing the application for the grant of the certificate that the hotel is registered in the register of hotels kept by Bord Fáilte Éireann.

That Act was enacted by Dáil Éireann as a result of the unanimous recommendation of an independent commission set up to deal with all these matters. What the Deputy in effect is asking me to do is to repeal that section. That I am not prepared to do.

I am not asking the Minister to repeal the section. I am asking him to give consideration to the fact that for a sum of money, dependant on the particular vendor or purchaser, these licences will not be renewed. But pursuant to section 20 they will be given a full publican's licence at any district court. Surely it is time to get rid of that cod quickly.

If people can get licences at district courts, more luck to them. Section 20 is there and was put there by Dáil Éireann as a result of investigations by a commission.

Has the Minister any concern for the family of the people who invested their money?

I have concern for those people. I have concern also for the other people who did their own business effectively. I cannot say whether these people were misled by their advisers but the section is there for everybody.

Every one of these will get a licence.

I expect. Why take up the time of the House?

I am trying to save them expense and to save expense to the State.

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