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Dáil Éireann debate -
Thursday, 28 Nov 1968

Vol. 237 No. 9

Ceisteanna—Questions. Oral Answers. - Award of Service Medals.

78.

andMr. Timmins asked the Minister for Defence (a) why 1917-21 service medals awarded by his Department are now termed not duly awarded and (b) the number thus classified to date.

The Government decided in June, 1957, to institute a new pattern of investigation of applications for the Service (1917-1921) Medal, the old system of verification having proved unreliable in practice. The Government also decided that, where a person claimed a special allowance under the Army Pensions Acts by virtue of his being the holder of a Service (1917-1921) Medal which had been issued under the old system of verification, his entitlement to the Medal must be reinvestigated in accordance with the revised procedure in order to establish that the Medal had been "duly awarded", the expression used in the Army Pensions Acts.

Where a person applies for the recent concessions to veterans of the War of Independence by virtue of his being the holder of a Service (1917-1921) Medal issued under the old system of verification, his entitlement to the Medal must likewise be reinvestigated.

Of some 38,000 Service (1917-1921) Medals issued prior to June, 1957, 693 have to date been held, on re-investigation, not to have been duly awarded, when the applicants applied for special allowances or for the recent concessions to veterans.

It is very hard to get verification if the officers are dead.

It is very difficult to establish the facts in some cases, I admit, because of deaths within the ranks of the Old IRA. It is impossible, in the absence of reliable evidence, for the Department to decide that a man is entitled to a medal if his name is not recorded on the lists of unit members supplied by the Brigade Committee when the referee appointed under the 1934 Act asked for these lists.

The Minister will agree that there was a number of people who for political reasons did not submit their names?

An examination of the rolls will disclose that, generally speaking, there was no such thing as a person left out for political reasons. From my own experience of investigating these claims I found that persons who served on different sides and belonged to the different political Parties that emerged since then, have got verification.

The Minister misunderstood me. I said that people because of their political views would not allow their names to be submitted at that time. Is the Minister not aware that it is most unfair that people who refused verification from officers who served with them, and who had service medals, have had the medals withdrawn mainly because the people who gave the verification are dead and cannot now verify?

I do not think there is any foundation for the allegation Deputy Tully is making. From my experience of dealing with these matters——

I am making a statement of fact.

I do not think you are.

Surely the Minister is aware that for political reasons some of his former colleagues refused to apply and are still of that frame of mind?

In regard to the issue of these medals, will the Minister now accept verification from persons in receipt of military service pensions who sustain their claims?

We do that. If the officers of the man's company are dead we look at the applications for service pensions by the other members of the company and if any of them is in receipt of a service pension he is communicated with without the applicant having to ask us to do that.

In the last week the Department informed me that a military service pension was withdrawn from a man although that man's company officers gave verification that he had been serving. Now, however, those officers are dead.

I am unable to deal with that without having the file before me.

The Minister wrote to me about it yesterday.

I should like to see the file in order to know who the man was.

The Minister did know.

There could be other people saying that the man was not a member.

Surely if his officers said that he had been and the service pension was awarded——

There could be a company commander or a company lieutenant saying that he was not. You have conflicting evidence in some of these cases.

79.

asked the Minister for Defence (a) the number of service pensioners under the Military Service Pensions Act, 1924, who qualified for pensions and the amount of cash involved and (b) the number still receiving pensions under the Act and the amount of cash involved now.

80.

asked the Minister for Defence (a) the number of pensioners under the Military Service Pensions Act, 1934, and the cash involved at that time and (b) the number still in receipt of pensions and the amount now involved.

81.

asked the Minister for Defence (a) the number of pensioners under the Military Service Pensions (Amendment) Act, 1949, and the amount of cash involved and (b) the number still in receipt of pensions and the amount of cash involved now.

I propose, with your permission, a Cheann Comhairle, to take Questions Nos. 79, 80 and 81 together. The information requested by the Deputy in regard to numbers of pensioners is as follows:—

Military Service Pensions Act, 1924

Pensions awarded

4,250

Pensions being paid on 31st October, 1968

2,027

Military Service Pensions Act, 1934

Pensions awarded

13,936

Pensions being paid on 31st October, 1968

7,427

The figures for pensions awarded include 2,463 awards made under the Military Service Pensions (Amendment) Act, 1949—396 relating to the 1924 Act and 2,067 relating to the 1934 Act.

The information requested in regard to the amount of cash involved is in the form of a tabular statement and I propose, a Cheann Comhairle, with your permission, to have it circulated with the Official Report.

STATEMENT showing the cost in each of the financial years 1924-25 to 1968-69 inclusive of pensions paid under the Military Service Pensions Acts, 1924 and 1934.

Year

Cost

£

1924-25

2,430

1925-26

66,151

1926-27

152,380

1927-28

180,162

1928-29

141,241

1929-30

141,954

1930-31

142,245

1931-32

141,226

1932-33

141,449

1933-34

139,973

1934-35

142,969

1935-36

193,332

1936-37

302,226

1937-38

409,003

1938-39

443,642

1939-40

387,165

1940-41

351,214

1941-42

444,717

1942-43

551,980

1943-44

475,647

1944-45

404,915

1945-46

402,164

1946-47

443,517

1947-48

425,489

1948-49

407,320

1949-50

384,453

1950-51

378,603

1951-52

386,298

1952-53

382,623

1953-54

647,798

1954-55

618,378

1955-56

625,016

1956-57

635,547

1957-58

598,895

1958-59

603,941

1959-60

583,284

1960-61

589,256

1961-62

582,689

1962-63

623,414

1963-64

655,635

1964-65

660,535

1965-66

650,119

1966-67

661,716

1967-68

680,625

(Estimated) 1968-69

720,400

The amounts shown above, up to and including the financial year 1933-34, relate entirely to pensions payable under the 1924 Act. The amounts from that onward are the totals paid under both the 1924 and 1934 Acts, and it is not practicable from available records to segregate the payments as between the two Acts.

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