I was rather amused to hear Deputy Briscoe's approach to this. He went to great pains and did a lot of research to find quotations from this side of the House, which he took out of context, to support the case he was making. It was quite evident he was approaching this matter and the terms of this Bill in the same manner as he and members of his Party always approach such matters, with a blind political loyalty to the belief that Fianna Fáil can do nothing wrong. Deputy Briscoe went to great pains to criticise Deputy Pat Hogan because he had the courage to suggest to the Minister that there was a more scientific approach. It is right to quote, despite what Deputy Briscoe said in criticism of Deputy Hogan, what is contained at column 1364 of volume 237 of the Official Report. It is a tribute from one of Deputy Briscoe's colleagues, Deputy Fahey, to Deputy Hogan. He said:
I had no intention of contributing to the debate until I heard my colleague, Deputy Hogan. I want to say this much for Deputy Hogan over and above the other speakers I heard on the Opposition Benches. At least he has the courage to make suggestions as to where the divisions should take place in the constituencies in order that the requirements of the Constitution, as laid down by the High Court in 1961, may be complied with. He also had the courage to make those suggestions during the referendum debate here in June. On that occasion he suggested putting West Waterford in with Cork...
Deputy Briscoe seems to underestimate the intelligence of the people when he said that, if they had an opportunity —which they have if they avail of it— of providing themselves with copies of the Dáil debates and reading some of the speeches made here by the Opposition, they would immediately know they were in favour of those suggestions. It is extraordinary now that it is necessary to give more seats to Dublin because we have not the population in the rural areas. It is extraordinary how everything comes to life.
I believe it was Deputy Briscoe's father who said in 1932: "I am happy to think that as things are working out now we shall not have so many persons migrating to the city. The Government is going to look after the whole country and not a section or part of the country." I need hardly remind the House that we are now in 1968 and that the country was so well looked after by Fianna Fáil that the rural areas are now losing four seats to Dublin.
This is the result of the policy which has been pursued over years of denuding the rural areas of their population because they did not get an opportunity of making a decent living. The primary purpose of the Bill should be to revise the constituencies in the light of the 1966 Census which is legally necessary, but it is now emerging that that is not the real purpose of the Bill. We can say in connection with it that Fianna Fáil are taking every opportunity to preserve their interests and ensure that their own representatives will be reinstated after the next election. It is quite apparent that this approach is as a result of a plan that was not prepared overnight but was in readiness so that if the referendum was defeated there would be a way of putting it before the people and ensuring that the Government would be entrenched in office.
That is actually what will happen. Deputy Briscoe could not understand gerrymandering in the sense that it was done by Fianna Fáil but he referred to and I think he quoted my own Leader, Deputy Cosgrave, in reference to gerrymandering some years ago. However, the people in no uncertain terms told the Fianna Fáil Government what they thought of their recent suggestion to change our voting system and have single-seat constituencies, which they maintained will be more workable and will give better results to the people. In the terms of this Bill, however, they are going as far as possible from the principle of PR. It is now suggested that we shall have 26 three-seat constituencies, as against 17 at present, and 14 four-seaters, as against 12 at present, and only two five-seaters as against nine at present. It is well known that PR works more successfully in the larger constituencies. The idea of three-seat constituencies is impossible and with the gerrymandering we would have two-to-one; but, of course, the people have yet to express an opinion on that and the other suggested changes. They will be given an opportunity to do this in the next election, whether this will be in the near future or not.
However, it is quite evident that Fianna Fáil want to get away as far as possible from the full operations of PR and it would seem that they are going along that channel without considering the views of the people. The lesson learned by them in the referendum does not seem to have been enough. The people are thinking for themselves and, indeed, they did this in no uncertain manner in the referendum.
Alternative suggestions have been made here in the House as to how this matter could be approached in a different manner and not in a political manner. At the moment, the Bill suggests the wholesale breaking and breaching of county boundaries and also electoral boundaries and, in the process, we have lost one county. In wartime, we would refer to people on the road as refugees but the people of Leitrim, to my mind, are political refugees. They are on the road. They have lost their county, despite all the talk that we hear in the Republic about getting back the North-Eastern Counties. Fianna Fáil have got rid of one county because the retention of it would not suit the aims and fortunes of that Party.
We must be realistic and approach this matter in a realistic way, in the way that the people of the country would approach it. I am quite sure that the electors will be frustrated when this is presented after the Bill has been passed. Then, they will really know where they stand. They will realise that, despite the lip service that it is for the good of the people, it is for the betterment and future preservation of Fianna Fáil.
I should like to refer to an article in the Irish Independent of Tuesday, November 19th, which gives the Government's plan in detail. It shows the displacement of something like 100,000 people and the breaching of 19 boundaries—this figure is subject to correction. Side by side with that is an alternative put forward by a Senator—Senator Garret FitzGerald—who maintains that, while it is necessary and imperative to revise constituency boundaries, it is not necessary, in his opinion, to displace all those people. He maintains that it could be done by displacing fewer than 40,000 people but, despite that, the Government have emphasised the fact that theirs is the only way, in their opinion, that this change could be successfully brought about. This is correct only in so far as the preservation of the Fianna Fáil Party is concerned. This is gerrymandering in a big way.
Deputy T.J. Fitzpatrick (Cavan) gave the history of gerrymandering and said that now, for the first time, we had “Bolandering”. This is a new word, but very appropriate. We know very well the Government are trying to halt the decline in their dwindling forces brought to light in the referendum. They cannot deny the facts. It is there in black and white, that, from the 1965 general election to the referendum, their voting support has been reduced by 175,000. That, in itself, is an indication that the people feel it is high time to have a change of Government. The sooner we have an election the sooner Fianna Fáil will get their answer.
As regards the breaching of county boundaries, I must again refer to what Deputy Briscoe said. He gave us much information but he was taking refuge in the fact that it was necessary to introduce this measure in view of the High Court decision in 1960. He wants to attribute the suggested changes here to what the court ruled, which of course is not sensible. This Bill is what Fianna Fáil desire, what they want and what they will get because they have the majority to put it through. With regard to county boundaries Deputy Briscoe made great play of the fact that Deputy T.J. Fitzpatrick and other Deputies on this side of the House had not that great an objection to the intermingling of county borders. He did not say that Deputy T.J. Fitzpatrick and my colleagues on this side of the House were definitely opposed to the breaching here and there of county boundaries. We know well that in regionalisation we can walk over county boundaries but the Deputy did not say that we were opposed to and considered it unnecessary that electoral boundaries should be breached here, there and everywhere. Looking at the suggested boundary changes one is reminded in certain cases, such as in my own constituency and the Leitrim boundaries, of a game of chequers. Someone said we will move this a bit in; someone else said we will bring out this bit—in here and out below. Consequently, I have no doubt in the world that there are personal influences at work in the setting up of boundaries.
However, I am not complaining about my constituency. I will let the people answer and I am happy to await their verdict. The Fianna Fáil Party cannot get away from the fact that a lot of this exercise is unwarranted and unnecessary and that there will be general resentment in the country. When the people get an opportunity of exercising the franchise at the next general election they will exercise their vote in no uncertain terms. They did so in the recent referendum in spite of what they were told—that they would never see a poor day if we had the single seat. God help us, we know what would have happened in that event. Now that the Fianna Fáil Party have been defeated they are taking their revenge on the people. They have learned that the people are now thinking for themselves in a mature way. That is good for the country. We are clear on the facts here in the House. The people are not blind either and they will do what they think is best for them and not for the Fianna Fáil Party.
I have no hesitation in saying, Sir, that the people will resent this measure and will in no uncertain terms give their answer when the opportunity arises. Be it sooner or later, we will have a Fine Gael Government in consequence of this suggested gerrymandering and the recent defeat in the referendum.