asked the Taoiseach if he will make a statement on the outcome of his discussions with the British Prime Minister concerning the new import restrictions.
2.
Ceisteanna—Questions. Oral Answers. - British Import Restrictions.
1.
asked the Taoiseach the nature of the discussions recently held between him and the British Premier, Mr. Wilson; and what benefits may be expected to accrue from this discussion.
3.
asked the Taoiseach if he will make a statement regarding his recent meeting with the British Prime Minister.
4.
asked the Taoiseach if he will make a statement on his most recent visit to England and his meetings with British Ministers; and what progress he made regarding the import deposit tax on exports of Irish goods and other matters.
With your permission, a Cheann Comhairle, I propose to take Questions Nos. 1, 2, 3 and 4 together.
The purpose of my meetings with the British Prime Minister and other Ministers was to make known my deep concern about the recent British measures which run counter to the spirit, if not also the letter, of the Anglo-Irish Free Trade Agreement. I pressed strongly for our exemption from the British import deposit scheme.
I referred once again to the restrictive effects on our economic development of earlier British measures such as the regional employment premium and the voluntary restraint on capital investment.
I expressed serious concern about the possible implications for this country of the recent British policy statement on development of domestic agricultural production and I discussed the problems of trade in certain agricultural commodities especially cheese.
Mr. Wilson explained that, despite the close association of the two countries in the Anglo-Irish Free Trade Agreement, it was impossible to exempt imports from Ireland from the deposit scheme as the scheme must be non-discriminatory and it applies to Britain's EFTA partners, to the Commonwealth, and even to British dependencies. The British Government accepted, however, the reasons why we had to take special measures to safeguard the interests of our exporters.
I received a clear assurance from the British Minister of Agriculture, Fisheries and Food that his recent policy statement on domestic agricultural production will not frustrate the agricultural objectives of the Anglo-Irish Free Trade Agreement. In my subsequent meeting with Mr. Wilson, the Prime Minister not only endorsed this assurance, but agreed that our respective Ministers of Agriculture should maintain close contact to ensure that this does not happen.
Finally, Mr. Wilson and I agreed that all of the issues arising out of our discussions, including the working of the Anglo-Irish Free Trade Agreement, should be further considered at a meeting beginning on Monday next of the Anglo-Irish Economic Committee in preparation for a meeting of the Irish and British Ministers concerned. Mr. Wilson agreed that we should, if necessary, have a further meeting together following this Ministerial meeting.
Can the Taoiseach say whether it is proposed to take any countervailing action, as provided for under Article 18 of the Free Trade Area Agreement?
I indicated in reply to the debate last week that, if the effects of the British action are shown to be adverse and if they impinge on our balance of payments position, then we would contemplate taking countervailing action.
The present arrangement which we have provided for the purpose of assisting our exporters will involve a charge on the Exchequer. Can the Taoiseach say what steps it is proposed to take to meet that and whether any representations have been made to the British Government in an effort to get them to offset that charge?
I put certain suggestions to have that charge offset to the British Prime Minister and this will be one of the matters which will be further discussed at the meetings to which I referred.
In view of the fact that Britain made certain regulations with regard to our exports to that country in order to correct their trading problems, will the Taoiseach say whether he and the Government are now to take the decision that they will not proceed with the lowering of our protective tariffs as from 1st July next? Will he say whether he got an assurance from the British Government that Irish agricultural exports will not be curtailed? He has said he got an assurance that the objects of the Agreement as far as agriculture is concerned will not be frustrated. I do not know what that means in this context.
How is it proposed to raise the money needed to service the financial arrangements made in order to facilitate Irish exports to Great Britain?
As of now, it is not proposed to take a decision on the question of reducing our tariffs by a further one-tenth next July. As far as our cattle exports are concerned, the Free Trade Area Agreement provides for the expansion in our agricultural output that we envisaged under our Programme for Economic Expansion. That is the kind of expansion in regard to which I sought an assurance from the British Minister of Agriculture, Fisheries and Food would not be frustrated. As far as meeting the interest charges on the deposits which the banks have agreed to make available is concerned, normally that would fall on the Exchequer, on the taxpayer, but as I already indicated in my reply to Deputy Cosgrave's supplementary, I have put forward suggestions to see if that will be offset——
To whom?
The British.
As to how £2 million, roughly, would be raised?
As to how the money we provide ourselves may be offset.
May I get this clear before Deputy Cosgrave resumes? These arrangements will cost us £2 million and I merely asked the Taoiseach how he proposes to raise this money.
It will be raised out of taxation initially but it is our hope that it will be offset by measures which we can arrange with the British.
You expect Harold Wilson to pay it for you?
I am not in a position at this stage to disclose——
In relation to cattle exports, is it not right to say that there is nothing in the Agreement compelling the British to take 638,000 cattle from us—that they will take them only if the British farmers want them? There is nothing in the Agreement——
The Free Trade Area Agreement provides that we use our best efforts to export to Britain 638,000 head of cattle. There are provisions whereby we are guaranteed the repayment of the British subsidy for our meat. There are other guarantees for us within the framework of the Agreement.
Can the Taoiseach say, in view of the fact that this British action was a clear breach of the Agreement, whether the discussions envisaged in the Taoiseach's original reply will cover the consultations provided for under the Agreement with a view to ensuring that the British Minister of Agriculture, Fisheries and Food will not militate against Irish exports?
I raised the question of prior consultation and pointed out how important it was for us on any action the British might see fit to take in the future, action that might affect our exports to that country. That will be pursued.
Does the Taoiseach agree there was a clear breach of the Agreement?
That is capable of argument. Fine Gael suggested that the British Government might have acted within the Agreement by imposing the provisions of Article 18 of the Agreement which would mean quantitative restrictions on our exports. That was clearly stated in the Fine Gael statement last Saturday.
Fine Gael wanted the British to act in accordance with the Agreement, much more to our detriment——
This is a matter of supreme importance, as the Taoiseach must realise. Yesterday he said, not in so many words, that he and the Dáil had not time to discuss this important problem. The Taoiseach has now stated there will be consultation between him and his British counterparts, or with some British Ministers, in an effort to review the Agreement. Does he not think the members of his Party, of Fine Gael and of my Party should be given an opportunity of having a full dress debate on the whole Agreement?
Deputy Corish's Party put down a motion the other day in the knowledge that the Whips were engaged in discussions about concluding the Dáil business on the 12th or 13th December. His Party know there was a lot of urgent business to be arranged——
Postponed because of the referendum.
——and to be debated in the course of that time. I intimated yesterday that I did not propose before Christmas to give time for that motion, and I was quite right. The Anglo-Irish Free Trade Agreement is published, well known, and to the extent that it is in existence everybody must know of its terms. Structurally it is a sound agreement. There have been little chinks in it which have not operated to our advantage and these are the chinks we hope to seal up in the course of the next couple of months.
We were given certain guarantees two years ago that were never realised. That is what we want to talk about.
We cannot have a debate at this stage.
The Taoiseach and his Government were fooled by the British.
We have been proved right by events.
You cannot trust a socialist.
Is the Taoiseach not aware that the one apparent safeguard in the Agreement which precluded Britain from imposing anything other than quantitative restrictions appears to have been breached clearly by the action of the British Government? In those circumstances will the Taoiseach not agree that what was done was more than a breach of the spirit of the Agreement and was in clear open defiance of the treaty between the two countries?
No, as I said, this is capable of argument and I am sure Deputy O'Higgins would agree with me if he had read the provisions. It refers to "quantitative restrictions and other administrative measures of like nature". I assume the Deputy would agree that is open to argument and that is why I said that while I regard it as against the spirit of the Agreement, it may also be against the letter.
The result is that we have to lend £25 million to the British free of interest?
Will the Taoiseach agree that, if there is a further deterioration in the international monetary situation, further measures may be invoked by the British within this Agreement against our exports to that country? Would he agree it is a possibility that, if there is a further deterioration in the monetary situation, the British may once more take unilateral action?
The British Chancellor said that the action they took did not relate to the international monetary situation.
But everybody knows it is related to it.
Would the Taoiseach give time for a discussion on this important subject in the New Year because surely he realises that our farmers and industrialists cannot plan ahead with the sword of Damocles hanging over them?
I have mentioned to the House the assurance I got from the British Minister of Agriculture which was endorsed by the Prime Minister.
Have we any assurance, in view of the fact that Britain has already broken this Agreement twice, that Irish farmers can even sell their cattle in Britain or that Britain will buy? We have only an assurance of entry into the British market. If Britain produces her own cattle, where are we going to sell? The right of entry is of very little use then.
This Agreement blocked holes that were glaring in the 1948 Agreement. We are in a much better position as regards the sale of cattle and other commodities as a result of the Free Trade Area Agreement.
Surely one cannot call it a Free Trade Agreement at the present time?
(Interruptions.)
In view of the fact that the Dáil may adjourn on Thursday or Friday next would the Taoiseach not agree to have an Adjournment Debate in which this important matter can be fully thrashed out in this House?
I will not.
Question No. 5.
On a point of order, the Taoiseach said yesterday we could discuss this because there were certain questions down. This is a very important subject. Does the Taoiseach suggest that we should dispose of all this in 14 minutes?
They are afraid to talk about it.
Deputies will appreciate that we cannot discuss the whole question at Question Time.
We are not blaming the Chair. We are blaming the Taoiseach and the Government for dodging the issue.
(Interruptions.)
In view of the fact that the Irish people are giving an interest free loan of £25 million to Mr. Wilson does the Taoiseach not consider that it deserves full consideration from this House?
Will the Deputy please resume his seat and allow Questions to continue?
Is it not the duty and responsibility of the Taoiseach to give this House an opportunity of discussing it?
(Interruptions.)
I will allow Deputy O'Hara one supplementary.
May I inquire from the Taoiseach if he availed of the opportunity when he was in England to discuss the serious problem that exists at present in the six north eastern counties of this country?
That is a separate question.
With respect may I point out that it is not a separate question? I submit that at the end of my question the words "and other matters" make it relevant. Did the Taoiseach not think it worthwhile to make a protest when he was over there?
Will the Deputy please resume his seat? Question No. 5.