asked the Minister for Education whether he will set up a board of inquiry as a matter of urgency into staff-student relations in UCD, with particular reference to the composition of the governing body; and whether he will make it the function of such an impartial inquiry body composed of all affected interests to bring forward recommendations on a type of governing structure more in touch with the requirements of university education today.
Ceisteanna—Questions. Oral Answers. - UCD Staff-Student Relations.
35.
In relation to the whole field to higher education University College, Dublin, cannot be considered in isolation. The future structure of such education, including the degree of student involvement therein, is under consideration by the Higher Education Authority which was set up six months ago. The Authority's general deliberations have reached a point that I would hope that in the next 12 months the necessary overall legislation should have taken shape. This will involve a number of complicated Bills, the first of which I expect to introduce in the coming session of Dáil Éireann.
In these circumstances and apart from other matters which impinge on university autonomy, I consider that the suggestion contained in the Deputy's question is untimely at present and inappropriate in the context of the projected provision for higher education.
In the meantime I see no reason why ad hoc committees representative of the college authorities, staff and students should not be set up to examine any immediate problems.
Is the Minister aware that a large volume of constructive agreement has been reached in University College, Dublin, over the past few days, and that there is quite an amount of common ground now between staff and students about the necessity for change in the governing body of that institution? What I am asking is whether the Commission will take into account the changes that have occurred there and incorporate them in their proposals?
I am very conscious, indeed, of the need for change in the structure of the governing bodies of our universities and the overall structure of higher education generally. For that reason we established this Higher Education Authority that has been working very assiduously and, as I have said in my reply, the first fruits of their work will be seen in a very detailed measure which will be before the Dáil shortly. That will be the first of a number of Bills dealing with the whole structure of higher education in Ireland. I would direct the attention of anyone concerned with how the structure of these governing bodies should function and operate to the Higher Education Authority that is sitting and awaiting any such representations and, indeed, has had many representations from people concerned with higher education. I am certain it would welcome representations from the student bodies interested in such changes in structure as they might desire.
The Minister will agree that the present system is unsatisfactory?
It is a matter of reform and a matter for examination.
Can the Minister tell the House while we are waiting for those changes when the College of Art will be reopened?
That is a separate question.
The Deputy has an unhappy knack—or a happy knack from our point of view—of asking questions at the right time.
I am delighted to hear that.
The Deputy asked a similar question during the unfortunate difficulty of the secondary teachers, and matters worked out appropriately and, indeed, matters are also working out appropriately in this regard too.
The Minister cannot tell us when it will be reopened?
Arising out of the Minister's reply and adverting to his grave consciousness of the need for change in the governing bodies, would he indicate what change he feels is necessary?
We have to be constructive about this.
I am being constructive in asking the question.
I am certainly all for reasonable student representation on governing bodies. I had already expressed myself in those terms long before there was any student unrest. I am very much in favour of reasonable staff representation also but I am in favour of very reasonable representation for the community at large on any such governing body. We here as representatives of the community are entitled to ensure that there is such community representation on the governing bodies of the higher education institutions for which we are responsible to a major degree in regard to the distribution of the taxpayers' money.
Does this mean that the Government are now taking upon themselves the functions of the university Senate in relation to its charter and statutes?
I am afraid the Deputy does not know what he is talking about, but he can be assured that, whatever changes in the structure of the governing bodies of our universities and institutions of higher education are made, they will be made after very full consultation with the Higher Education Authority that has a majority representation of university people on it, full consultation with the university bodies, full consultation with the staff and student associations, and that there will be a reasonable apportionment of representation that will have due regard to student interest, staff interest, and I would hope, above all else, the interest of the community.
Question No. 36.
May I take it that after such consultation, no decision will be taken without at least substantial agreement amongst all concerned?
The whole matter will have to come before the Dáil in the form of legislation when we can talk it out amongst the people's representatives who are the most important of all.
Has the Minister any legislation in the pipeline?
I would hope to have the first Bill inside the next month.
The Minister will not spell it out?
No.
Has the Minister indicated recently to the Higher Education Authority that he and the Government favour student representation on the governing bodies?
I am quite categorical on this. There must be student representation on the governing bodies of our universities and institutions of higher education in the future. The degree of such student representation may be a matter for debate.
Question No. 36.