asked the Minister for Justice the average time spent by any prisoner in St. Patrick's Institution, Dublin.
Ceisteanna—Questions. Oral Answers. - St. Patrick's Institution.
19.
The average time spent in St. Patrick's by youths committed there during 1968 was four months.
20.
asked the Minister for Justice what percentage of the inmates of St. Patrick's Institution, Dublin, receive assistance from the welfare officer; and for what percentage he actually finds employment.
24.
asked the Minister for Justice the type of work carried out by the after-care service attached to St. Patrick's Institution, Dublin; the number of people engaged in this work; and their qualifications.
With your permission, a Cheann Comhairle, I propose to take Questions 20 and 24 together.
As it often happens that several parties may be involved in the finding of suitable employment for prisoners, it would be impossible to give a precise figure for the number of jobs that could be said to have been found by the welfare officer, but during this year he played an active role in finding employment for 41 inmates and for 50 ex-inmates with whom he kept in touch after release. In addition to the welfare officer two chaplains, one of whom is full-time, and the members of the visiting committee are actively concerned with the inmates' welfare. Furthermore, there is a voluntary organisation known as St. Patrick's Welfare Association the members of which do valuable and much appreciated work in this field.
In relation to Question 20, does the Minister not consider that the information requested in the second part of the question is an essential yardstick for the success of the service in question?
Regarding Question 24, is it not true this is only carried out by voluntary people and does the Minister consider that is adequate?
I think the very best effort in this field can be made by voluntary people, by those who are interested in this work. Members of the visiting committee and others associated with them do very valuable work in this field which I take it the Deputy means to be that of job placement. Former members like Senator Dunne, for instance, and others, have devoted a considerable amount of their time to trying to place these people which is no easy task as realists in the House will appreciate.
Do they have any professional guidance?
What professional guidance does a man need in trying to get another fellow a job? Does the Deputy think he should have a degree from Trinity?
In regard to assessing character and adaptability for a particular job?
The Minister never heard of training for vocational guidance.
Question No. 21.
21.
asked the Minister for Justice if he is aware that 50 per cent of the inmates of St. Patrick's Institution, Dublin, are only semi-literate and according to the researchers of the Social Science Department of UCD could not have benefited from ordinary primary education; and what steps are taken to remedy the educational deficiencies of these inmates.
22.
asked the Minister for Justice if he is aware that a survey carried out by members of the Social Science Department of UCD showed that 35 per cent of the inmates of St. Patrick's Institution, Dublin were either mental defectives or borderline mental defectives; and what specially qualified staff, if any, are involved in the education and rehabilitation of these inmates.
With your permission, a Cheann Comhairle, I propose to take Questions Nos. 21 and 22 together.
The survey referred to by the Deputy, which was carried out with the co-operation of my Department, indicated that one boy out of the random sample of 32 inmates was mentally defective. The others were borderline.
As for educational backwardness, the position of course is that this problem, is a long-standing one and, as I mentioned in the course of my Estimates speech on Friday last, a psychologist is being appointed in the near future in an effort to improve the situation. One of the psychologist's principal functions will be to plan and to put into operation an educational programme geared to the individual needs of the inmates of St. Patrick's.
I must point out however that 80 per cent of the inmates are serving terms of 4½ months or less and it is not practicable to remedy serious educational deficiencies in such a short period.
Would the Minister confirm or deny that the only educational facilities available at the moment are being provided by a prison officer who has the leaving certificate but no other teaching qualification?
I would not. The people who are there are fully qualified to teach what they are teaching.
23.
asked the Minister for Justice the average amount spent per day on food for a prisoner in St. Patrick's Institution, Dublin.
Separate accounts are not kept in St. Patrick's for expenditure on food but the cost of food for prisoners generally was estimated for 1969-70 at £57 per head.
Is the Minister satisfied that there is adequate protein content in this food?
Protein?
Yes, protein. I believe it is excessively starchy food.
Certainly, if the Deputy is referring to spuds there is any amount of them.
That shows the Minister's ignorance.
The Minister is being asked a question and in reply he said spuds contained protein. They do not contain any protein whatever.
The Deputy said starch.
He said the food was starchy food and does not contain protein.
I was answering what he said about starch and I understand the good old Murphy has tons of starch.
I said there was too much starch and not enough protein.
The Deputy said starch and it was about starch I answered.
25.
asked the Minister for Justice the precise differences in facilities, discipline and general organisation between St. Patrick's Institution and Shanganagh Castle.
Shanganagh, unlike St. Patrick's, is an open institution without high walls or any extensive precautions against escape. The staff there wear plain clothes. There is more time allowed for recreation. Longer visits are permitted and they are unsupervised. Correspondence is not examined.
Other differences are referred to in my recent speech introducing the Estimates.
Could the Minister say in regard to the facilities available at Shanganagh how far he has got with the promise he made in last year's Estimate? What I have in mind, and I quote, is that he said: "Training will be imparted in building construction, woodwork, decorating, vehicle driving and horticulture. By next year I expect my hopes for Shanganagh will be materialised in the full regarding these training facilities." Have they been materialised in the full by this year?
Most of them have.
Most, but not all?
Which?
The Deputy can put down a question and I shall give chapter and verse for what is being provided there. Much of what I mentioned is provided for the training of these young people.
26.
asked the Minister for Justice if the vocational training facilities for longer term prisoners in St. Patrick's Institution, Dublin, are of equal standard to facilities in vocational schools.
The training facilities in St. Patrick's include workshops for tailoring, shoemaking, woodworking and matmaking. Instruction is given in car driving and maintenance. Inmates also assist the officers engaged in the upkeep of the buildings.
In appropriate cases, inmates are given daily release to enable them to continue attendance at vocational school classes.
Training, which is in the hands of fully qualified officers, is of a high standard and, bearing in mind that a significant proportion of the inmates are of low intelligence and educational standard, is reasonably comparable to that in vocational schools.
27.
asked the Minister for Justice if rule 114 of the Rules for the Government of Prisons 1947 applies to St. Patrick's Institution, Dublin; and if he has any plans to amend it in this regard.
This rule, which prohibits familiarity between prison officers on the one hand and prisoners, their friends and relatives on the other hand, applies also in St. Patrick's. It is designed for the protection of prisoners and does not seem to call for any fundamental amendment in its application to St. Patrick's.
As I announced in the House recently, however, I have set up a departmental working group to examine, inter alia, the 1947 rules. Rule 114 will come up for consideration in this connection.
Does the Minister not consider it rather odd that this rule should apply if prison officers are supposed to play any positive part in rehabilitating the inmates? Surely if they cannot talk to them unnecessarily they cannot play much of a part in rehabilitating them?
I think the rule about talking is designed to be for the protection of the prisoners themselves. There is talking and talking in it. It is talking by way of rebuke that the rule is designed to prevent. It is for the protection of the boys concerned.
Will the Minister explain how officials from whom the inmates require to be protected are expected to rehabilitate these inmates?
That is a typical Nkrumah twitch to the answer I gave. These rules are not designed to stop people looking after the prisoners but for the specific purpose of restraining warders from unnecessarily badgering or reprimanding these boys or saying anything that would upset them.
Would the Minister not consider modifying this rule in order to help warders to play a greater part in rehabilitation?
I have told the Deputy that in the re-examination that is going on this rule also will be examined. The purpose of the rule is very clear and the portion of it prohibiting warders from writing to people afterwards was designed for a very special reason, because of potential blackmail.